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According to MLB.com, the Diamondbacks have acquired RHP Dan Haren from the A’s for for pitchers Brett Anderson, Greg Smith and Dana Eveland, OF Carlos Gonzalez and Aaron Cunningham and 1B Chris Carter.
In a separate deal, the Diamondbacks sent RHP Jose Valverde to the Astros in exchange for IF 
Chris Burke, RHP Chad Qualls and Juan Gutierrez.
Valvede led the National League in saves last season with 47, while also posting a 2.66 ERA.
…added to by Matthew Cerrone…
…so, as a reader pointed out in the comments section of this post, the D’Backs essentially traded their eighth, seventh, third and number one prospect for haren, as well as two other pitchers, which would sort of be like the Mets giving up Fernando Martinez, Carlos Gomez, Philip Humber and Jon Neise, at minimum…the problem is that the D’Backs system, as a whole, is ranked significantly better than the Mets, so i am not sure Omar Minaya could have even competed with arizona’s offer – nor, apparently, could 28 other teams around the league…
…if you recall, all indications out of oakland had been that for the Mets to get haren, given their current crop of minor-league talent, minaya needed to part with John Maine, which was never going to happen any way…
…for what it’s worth, i don’t think Erik Bedard is much of an option for the Mets at this point, either…in other words, it has always been, and will continue to be, Johan Santana or bust, which is equally frightening and exciting at the same time…
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SHHHH! Omar is sleeping.
hahahahahaa
wow i laughed hard. props
“Omar are you hearing this?”Haren is a diamondback!
Omar, are you reading this? Haren is overrated!
WOW. Didn’t see that one coming.
did you see this coming: the rangers sighned edgardo alfonzo to a minor league contract.
What this team needed was a 4th outfielder, a garbage middle reliever, and a .235 hitting backstop to get them back to the WS. Stop with these arbitrary trade deals, the Mets are obviously ready to go into battle with the players they have.
Yes, but what we actually got, was a RF who outproduced every met but Wright and Beltran hitting against righties, and a catcher who is top 3 defensively and gets on base at a higher clip then lo duca ever did. Stop complaining queer.
That certanlly puts a lot more preasurre to get Santana.
i agree but the problem is that we would have to give up more thatn we can. let teh young kids play and if there is a “reasonable” deal at teh trading deadline then do it.
i no i might sound crazt but i think that Humber will be a better pitcher than Pelfrey. Pelfrey needs to learn how to deal with pressure and in NY you either can or you cant. Humber pitched well when i saw him but he got tired around the 5th inning (could be that he didnt pitch for a month)
let the kids play and if they do well, there stocj goes up. im a real estate broker and what ive learned is that you seel high…not low. milledge should have gotten us manny but freddy coupons didnt want to pay that salary. another issue that im not going to get into now
Dude, can you send me some advice on when to seel? I no it might sound crazt but i want to seel my stocj so I can afford teh young kids at teh trading deadline.
glad to see someones doin somethin
that good news. Gets another suitor off the market. And helps to set the price.
Santana is not being traded guys. We are going to war with what we have here. And I for one prefer it that way. I’d like another starter…sign Silva already and Colon to an incentive based deal
Dude, this is NOT good news. In any way, shape, or form.
Arizona was never a serious suitor in the Santana talks, partly because he has a no-trade clause and partly because they didn’t want to spend the money to re-sign him. So this does not making getting Johan ANY easier.
In fact, this makes it harder on the Mets. With one of the big names off the market, the Sox and Yanks have more incentive to get Johan. One less alternative means one more reason for them to step up their offers. And if they step up their offers, the only way we’ll get him is by overpaying in terms of prospects.
Ugh.
Well congrats to the D’Backs. A Webb/Haren 1-2 is devastating.
Red Sox were never interested in Haren. Yankees would have had to give up 2 of Joba, Hughes, or Kennedy to get Haren. They’re out of Santana and the Red Sox have a really mediocre package offered to the Twins for him.
If you are right enjoy another second place finish. Carlos Silva? Please stop. Why would you want to overpay for a fifth starter. If we cant get Santana then let Pelfrey or Humber have the fifth slot. Silva and a 4 year deal would be an albatross on the franchise. Colon for 1 year maybe. Santana is the only way we get to the World Series.
Exactly. The worst thing we can do is bring in a so-called innings eater. The ones that are available are all losers. Don’t bring a loser in here. Do we want a loser to pitch more innings than anyone on the team? Use one of your own for the 5 slot. Hello, Omar? Omar?
Well if you want….sign Silva and then trade all 3 close pitching prospects (Pelfrey, Humber and Mulvey) plus Heilman and Fmart for Santana.
Then at least you have a rotation of Santana, Pedro, Maine Ollie and Duque which is decent. You have no farm system left and no set up man, unless Sanchez is really back this time but hey….at least you got Santana and the priveledge of paying him $22M per for the next 6 yrs
Meant Silva not Duque. Duque is the long man. Still need a setup guy in this scenario
I would love the priveledge of paying Santana 22 per for 6. I hope we get that chance. He would be worth every cent of that. 6 years of him means his deal is done when he is 34 which is a young pitcher still in today’s climate.
totally agree with your entire post. sign Silva (the guy had something like 14 wins in the toughest division in the league). he would be a good investment
I agree with u only I dont want Silva. I am okay with Perdo, Ollie, Maine, Duque and Pelfrey/Humber/Mulvey/whoever. I dont want to be locked into a 4 year deal; with Silva. He gives up tons of hits and home runs. I would rather look to Colon so we could atleast only have him for a year if he bombs out. Nice trade for Arizona in any case.
What the hell!!!!!! Carlos Gonzalez is the only guy there worth something, and hes not even rankined higher than F-Mart. This is a joke. Dana Eveland? Didnt he make his M.L Debut for the Mets while on the Brewers. He looked horrible. All of the other guys are literally no names. Come on. Dbacks got an ace pitcher for one good prospect and they didnt even need to give up Conor Jackson, Upton, or Stephen Drew. This is ridiculous. Are you telling me the Mets are not able to match that offer? They could have matched that with Gomez, Church/Milledge, Pelfrey and Heilman (this actually would have been more than enough). All the N.L teams seem to be getting better while the Mets are sleeping. Dbacks have two aces in their staff with a decent offense. The Phillies added Lidge. Braves added Glavine.
the Braves and Philies might have added who you mentioned but were stil a better team. NEVER FORGET THAT WE GAVE AWAY LAST REASON AND WE SHOULD HAVE BY 12 GAMES.
PLEASE MET FANS, DO NOT FORGET THIS
exactly, we couldve beat that offer easily!
Let’s watch Haren put up another 14-12 3.73 season. Don’t confuse Haren with Johan just cause his salary is cheaper, doesn’t make him the same commodity as Johan.
I can see Haren having a bad year. He plays in the bandbox and he doesnt have unlimited foul space like he does in McAffe
And in the bullpen warming up, the NY Mets opening day starter…John Maine!
Get used to that.
It’s completely logical to turn on Maine and make him the bad guy, after all.
He sure does suck.
huh? who’s making Maine a “bad guy”? What he is being made by circumstance is the Ace of the staff.
It’s December 14th.
I think the price for Haren would be more than for Johan for one big reason. He is under contract for 3 more years at a low cost, and there is value to that. Whoever gets Johan will have to fork over 130M+ in addition to the load of prospects…I can’t see Johan costing more than the 6 prospects the A’s got for Haren
Twins sign Lamb. Man, they are doing some non-tendered bargain shopping. Looks like they stole a page form the Duquette/Wilpon playbook from 2003. Is Karim Garcia available?
Let this move just CEMENT the fact thatthe mets can’t get Santana without Reyes and wre never in the hunt for Haren or Bedard.
You don’t have the Minor league system to acquire these type talents.
Very few teams have the minor league system to get a pitcher of that caliber. The D-Backs just drained theirs in the hope that two top end pitchers will compensate for an average offense (unless a few of their younger position guys grow by leaps and bounds next season). The Dodgers can haul in some proven talent for their prospects but they seem overly reluctant to trade any of it. The Red Sox the same way.
We might not be stocked with the can’t miss guys but we’ve got a solid team, not dominating but one that can contend.
The Braves emptied a lot of their high end prospects at the trade deadline. Smoltz and Chipper are a year older. Can Mike Hampton seriously be trusted to be a solid part of the staff? Who’s going to close? If they thought Glavine wasn’t worth committing to when they originally let him go to the Mets then what does that say about their rotation if they’re willing to take him back after a season where his declining skills were glaringly exposed? Andruw Jones might have had a huge dip but he still hit nearly 30 HR’s and drove in almost a 100 runs and that’s not exactly production that can be just spread around the rest of the lineup.
I will give them credit, Frenchy has a gun in the outfield and learned to stop swinging at everything within 2 feet of the strike zone, Escobar looks like he’ll maintain the trend of the NL East as the division with the best SS talent. If Texeira can hit NL pitching as well as he did after the deadline then that will keep the middle of the lineup strong, but as of now none of the top 3 teams in the division are substantially better than the other.
Tex will be traded at the deadline. They are too smart to simply let him walk and they do not have the cajones to sign him with their ownership.
Tex is not going to make it to free agency. He gets traded to LA for prospects at the trading deadline and Boras gets him the money from LA because they need him. They trade loney as a result in the deal and he is the 1b of the future for the braves
we definetly do not hav ethe farm system people are looking for..this is why you let the kids play.if they do good or at least hold down the fort we can at least decide if we can to keep them or trade them.
I have been all over the place on what to do or not to do but it really does suck that we are no getting better at all.
Yup…we still have our meager prospects but we have done nothing to improve. Zilch. Plus we dumped our most ready young outfielder already for the security of averageness in Church and Schneider.
I am officially upset now
agreed. traded promise for gaurenteed average
I am not upset in the least. Like someone said. At least someone is doing “something”.
I am a realist and I understand that the Mets can’t pony up the packages other teams can. The Mets do not have a deep system so I am not going to lose any sleep over the Mets “missing opportunities” with pitchers such as Haren, Bedard, and Santana.
To be perfectly honest, I am sooo over Santana because he’s going to cost prospects and cash money. To hell with that. I was fully prepared for and expected the Mets to do nothing this offseason as far as high impact moves. While the possibility remains open that the Mets could make a higher profile transaction this offseason, I don’t believe they will.
I think the Mets feel that they have a winning product and they can simply “re-tool” once again. Granted, they probably have an 85-88 win team as it currently stands, but again, it’s just more of the same with the Mets. It’s always the “next best” approach.
Other fans might construe me as being critical, but I am really not. I am not disappointed in the least with the team. I am not complacent either because I would love Omar to pursue some big names. At the end of the day, the FA market isn’t very attractive and the Mets do not have viable resources to trade. I would never want to see Wright or Reyes go and that’s the only way the Mets are going to land a true ace – by trading one of those guys. No thank you.
You speak the gospel my friend. True that the mets are hamstrung by a terrible free agent market and a difficult trading environment. It takes real creativity to make something happen for us.
How about trading Delgado to the Dodgers for either pitching prospects or for Loney in a package of Delgado plus some young prospects we have?
Start to think out of the box here.
If you were the Dodgers, wouldn’t you just rather keep your pitching prospects for when you need them the most, (either for a trade in the future or to step in and play), and go into the season with Loney?
yes. If I were the gm of the dodgers….I would stand pat
Yeah me too.
If I were the GM of the Dodgers and you offered me Delgado for some of my pitching prospects and/or Loney I’d politely ask you to leave my office.
Wow….this is gonna be avery looong year. Most excitement will be when Sillie gets fired – over/under is the ASG – and if Omar goes with him. 2006, a swing away from the WS and on brink of an exciting future…a year later and we’re in the weeds.
*sigh*
Time for a confidence rating poll.
Strangely, that confidence meter has actually gone up a little bit since the last time I looked at it.
mets arent even the best team in the nl anymore. good job omar
We never were. Cards and Rocks have been.
the best team doesn’t win the pennant- the luckiest (or hottest) team does
the team with the best regular season record is the best team in the league- 162 games is a much better judge than a 5 and 7 game series
Someone get Billy Beane to the proctologist’s office!
Someone light a fire under omar’s ass
someone get a brain and stop making ridiculous posts.
I was being serious.
Lighten up, Don.
The matches would put the Wilpons over budget!
Fell like the stinkin’ Pittsburgh Pirates, for cryin’ out loud. Why is Omar still our GM? And fire Willie tonight! And don’t tell me it’s Dec 14th. Several teams have improved themselves dramatically and we are waiting, cautious, careful…
number41, were you born in 1941?
What are the chances of Pelfrey having a really good year in the 5th spot, like 14-10 3.75 era and Pedro at least duplicating Glavine’s numbers last year and Maine and Perez doing what they did next year? Would that put us in contention at least from the pitching side? I want an ace as well, but how would you honestly try to project Pelfrey’s year next year if he were to get the 5th spot? (I’m asking, because I’m not sure–and would like to hear an opinion or two.)
My thoughts on Pelfrey is you can not expect more than 10 wins and less than a 4.5 era. He will have some good starts and some bad ones. I think if he pitches to a 9 – 11 year with a 4.5 era….you can then begin to expect incremental improvements going forward. He has the high side potential of a #3 starter maybe better if he develops his slider and can throw it for strikes.
Pelfrey would be a solid piece to the 2009 Mets but his 2008 can not be expected to be better than .500, IMO
thanks for the insight. That was helpful.
you watch the team. what are your thoughts on pelfrey going forward?
Can I offer my thoughts on Pelfrey going forward?
I think he’ll be a solid #3 starter for the Twins for several years.:)
Seeing the, albeit, small sample toward the end of the year with him, I was impressed. I think he has a strong upside. I noticed when he returned to the ML’s he was chewing gum or tobacco? Perhaps someone gave him that suggestion to try to help get him in a more consistent rhythm. His fastball seemed to have some notable late movement, which I hadn’t seen in the beginning of the year. (Heard the glowing interview from his manager at Witchita State about his pitches, but didn’t see what he was talking about until September) I have to say I like him (now). I’m glad we didn’t give up on Heilman, because the Pelfrey history reminded me of him.
I think you’re right in your assessement-we shouldn’t expect much this year–2009 is a more realistic expectation-particularly without him having spent any real time in the minors.
thanks wannabe. I tend to agree. Id like to see what he evolves into personally. I also think Humber has a future though not as bright. I can see 2009 with both of them as productive pieces to the rotation. We still need a headliner but I can definitely envision a strong 2009 rotation with Maine, OP, Pelfrey and Humber winning 55 – 60 games between them all. What we need is a stud at the front of the rotation who will win 18 – 20. Pedro will be gone by then.
What are your thoughts, if you have any of course, on C.C. Sabathia for next year–particularly if it doesn’t look like we will land an ace this year. I’m somewhat concerned about his body type–that (maybe of course) gets us an ace and we get to keep Pelfrey and Humber–or is that too risky in your opinion.
I’m sorry—risky in the sense that we hold onto both Pelfrey and Humber for another year?
CC is an ace but built like Colon. I dont know if that means he can not sustain his performance going forward. I just hope he is amongst a group of 3 or 4 guys who actually make it to the free agent market with Sheets, Santana (if we do not get him), Sabathia and who knows who else.
The risk in holding on to Pelf and Humber is they fail and are worthless in a future trade.
I don’t think that Pelfrey does chewing tobacco. He grinds his teeth when he pitches, so he wears something in his mouth so he doesn’t damage his chompers. Something like that.
Oh, okay. Thanks for the fyi. I was curious what was in his mouth.
that’s right, it’s a mouthguard
Based on his performance last year I’m not sure how anyone can reasonably expect more than 5 wins out of him.
He was 3-1 in his last 5 starts. While not dominating…he was not anthony young by any stretch
Though I don’t think Pelf will do better than 10-10. He could improve to a 13/14 game winner in ‘09 if his progress stays on track.
going 3-1 in his last five starts hardly shows market improvement or puts him on track for double digit wins. I’d be shocked if he won more than 8 games.
I disagree; he showed clear improvement with command and patience. I don’t know how many wins he’ll get, but progress was evident, and it’s entirely reasonable to assume his progression will continue next year.
That’s actually not really true. People seem to have that perception because he had one big game vs. the Braves on national TV. Short of that game and his next start vs. Houston where he was ok, he was consistenly (not improving) mediocre all season. And more importantly, he can’t throw innings.
Date Opp G GS W L SV IP H R ER BB K CG SHO ERA
Sep 24 WAS 1 1 0 1 0 5.2 5 7 6 5 3 0 0 9.53
Sep 19 @WAS 1 1 1 0 0 5.0 9 3 3 3 4 0 0 5.40
Sep 11 ATL 1 0 0 0 0 2.0 3 1 1 2 1 0 0 4.50
Sep 7 HOU 1 1 1 0 0 5.1 10 2 2 2 3 0 0 3.38
Sep 1 @ATL 1 1 1 0 0 6.0 1 1 1 3 7 0 0 1.50
Jul 28 WAS 1 1 0 0 0 6.0 8 3 3 1 5 0 0 4.50
Jul 13 CIN 1 0 0 0 0 1.1 2 1 1 1 1 0 0 6.75
Jul 6 @HOU 1 1 0 1 0 6.0 7 4 4 2 5 0 0 6.00
Jul 1 @PHI 1 1 0 1 0 5.0 4 3 2 3 3 0 0 3.60
May 12 MLW 1 1 0 1 0 5.0 8 4 4 3 3 0 0 7.20
May 6 @ARZ 1 1 0 1 0 5.1 3 3 3 4 1 0 0 5.06
May 1 FLA 1 1 0 1 0 6.1 5 3 3 3 3 0 0 4.26
Apr 25 COL 1 1 0 1 0 3.0 8 6 6 1 1 0 0 18.00
Apr 20 ATL 1 1 0 1 0 5.0 6 4 4 2 3 0 0 7.20
Apr 13 WAS 1 1 0 0 0 5.2 6 2 2 4 2 0 0 3.18
Sorry to say, but the Mets are a 3rd place team for ‘08. It’s not the end of the world, but it’s a bit disappointing. Hopefully, it will give the kids a chance to develop in a less pressured environment (not likely) without the playoff chase forcing us to go with the Lawrence, Lima, Park types. Maybe a couple will become successful and restore some credibility to the farm system. Let’s face it, the fans love the prospects a lot more than the other GMs do. We have always overhyped our guys and they seldom have worked out all that well. The DBacks GM is from the Red Sox, and they know how to develop players. When Willie and Omar get fired, we should look to someone out of the Red Sox system to teach the Mets that it is OK to act like a big market team.
gentleman,
its finally nice to talk a little baseball hot stove after that mitchell report. i wholeheartedly understand focusing our lateseason meltdown anger at the futility this offseason has brought us but i urge everyone to remain calm. dont forget what omar has brought to this team through some good deals (and luck as well), sure we could use bannister, but lets not “annoint him” after he pitched 3/4 of a decent season. his handling of loduca, although questionable at the time, proved to be justified. milledge has potential in the right environment, but do you really want to see him if he has a little success? would be akin to rooting for marbury…wagner has repeatedly mentioned the need to replace glavine’s 12 wins/200 or so innings from last season, how about if we replace him with pedro martinez? why are we all of a sudden losing our composure just because the phillies added brad lidge? he has been a real munson for 2+seasons. the braves lost andruw jones and picked up glavine, should this scare us? dontrelle going to the al should imporve our puitching staff’s collective era significantly.
here’s one thing i dont understand, why are we so reluctant to part with pelfrey/humber? neither pitcher has shown a great deal of success at any level of professional ball, simialrly as 4 year college athletes, their upside from here is limited, no? i would rather part with one of them than heilman who is our bullpen’s ace behind wagner. admittedly, mulvey is an unknown entity, however, i dont understand why omar has been reluctant to pull the trigger on gomez, church, mulvey, pelfrey, humber for santana. this is a bonafide league ace who can be the cornerstone of our rotation for years to come…i trust in omar but could use some clarrification on this…
feh
Because right now the deal is not there. Church, Pelfrey Humber and mulvey plus gomez is not getting us Santana because they dont want that package. Regardless of what has been reported.
I know that you are trying to be optimistic, but I got a good belly laugh when I read the part you posted about Pedro pitching 200 innings.
he may not get 200 innings but do you doubt that he exceeds Glavines win total? I see pedro with 30 starts and 16 wins with 8 – 10 losses. Way better than Glavine who I think does not make the whole season with the Bravos. He is officially done.IMO
With Pedro, I don’t think it has anything to do with a lack of ability, heart, or desire. He’s got all that. I think that if Pedro can show me that he is going to be able to take the ball every five days for the whole season then I will be more inclined to agree with you.
In the meantime, if Glavine gets the right Umpiring crews on the nights he pitches, who knows what numbers he’ll put up. I am so glad he’s gone. I never wanted him here in the first place.
touche. Glavine relies on the off the plate calls or lack of disciplined hitters. I for one am glad he is gone. He would have been hard pressed to repeat his 2007 season with us
Glavine has made tens of millions in part to umpire’s unjustified widening of the strike zone.
I’m not to upset to see Glavine go! He was good for the team when he was here but he is done! He can go to the Braves, and maybe we can have the same success against him as they Braves did. We can only hope. He has, and he and Maddox figured it out. He has made the most of his ability because he is so smart.
fire omar now!!!!!!!!!!
well after this deal it’s pretty clear we have to sell the entire single a, double a, and triple a league for johan
but just do it already!!
though i do agree with one person on haren’s trade value was more just because he’s under contract for the next 3+ years or something.
i don’t get the valverde for burke/qualls trade though. that helps out the astros alot.
Makes me think that the D-Backs have something cooking for a closer. Maybe a young in-house option. If they come up with an effective closer, then the Valverde deal helps them out a lot, actually.
I used to think omar minaya was an intelligent baseball man.Now hes lost all credibility with me.Dont tell me he couldnt aquire noah lowry and ian snell[which i think would have helped !]
I knew taht the D’Backs were getting Haren.
However, it was a beautiful move by the D’Backs to get Qualls. He is something special.
Martinez/Gomez, Heilman, Pelfrey, Mulvey, Niese/Humber & Gotay to Minnesota.
So is Niese the latest Met minor leaguer who’s name we’re going to throw all over the place in trade rumors?
Nah I’ve been saying his name for a while now.
When?
I’ve been reading posts in here for a long time, (yours are some that I like more than some others), and I only saw Niese mentioned at all in a mock trade proposal the day before yesterday.
I really don’t think that this is all that big a deal, but I think it’s funny that after you posted his name, it’s inevitable that some of the “easily convinced” of our Met fan brethren are going to start throwing him into every trade idea they put out there simply because they have heard his name.
I’ve hear Vineyard but not Niese and I have trolled right along with you looking for potential other names to deal
Neise is more advanced than Vineyard.. who was drafted last year
Hes right now the best lefty in OUR minor system, . which isnt saying much
Gomez, Church, Pelfrey, Humber AND Pelrey and Mulvey?
thats rich.. leaves no decent right fielder.
the stakes are getting too rich for my blood.
After the DBacks laid out 6 for 1 and a half I think you certainly have to go 6 for Santana
The Dbacks gave up some serious prospects that are more advanced. I know Sanatna is owed 140+ mil but I dont think id like to spend more than 4and a half for 1 for Johan.
Pelfrey and Humber have had some success in the minors. may have to fold our hand, roll the dice and see what we got.
Two years ago, I lived in MN. Man is it cold there this time of year. Their fan base two years ago resigned themselves to the fact Santana was going to a New York team. I still have a good many friends out there, and here is what they are looking for. Now, understand they just released Jason Tyner and few fans where quite upset with this. They do want to get some help, and prove to their fan base that they are for real. But, their fans don’t have great expectations. BUt, they do trust their GM a ton more then we do, and they haven’t been real contenders for some time.
We should give up;
Pelfrey – I do believe he can be something, but we need that something now. I am wondering about his make-up for NY.
Humber – Correct me if I’m wrong, but he did have Tommy John surgery, and he is coming back from it. But, he has come up two years in a row, last year i think he just started one game, and in ‘06 he came in for two relief appearances, right.
Heilman – he is a good relief pitcher who wants to be a starter. When the Twins or any other club make him a starter and he wins 15 one year all of us Met fans are again going to question our front office. But, for now we see him as expendable. I think we did this once before. Same idea different pitcher by the name Agularia.
Gomez – he maybe a young stud. But, I haven’t been convinced yet. that he has the tools we’ve been led to believe he posses. He found himself many times looking to bunt, instead of driving the ball, and running and scoring.
Gotay – I really don’t want to trade him. He can hit, he plays with passion, and he can field. I see him as an up and comer. I really believe he can be very good, when given an opportunity.
Church – If the Twins were willing to take Milledge, then Ryan Church would be a good option too. RF for the past 7 years has been a revolving door any way. We seem to have the attitude we can get anyone to play there and we’ll make it work. Look at Green, Nady, and the list goes on.
We should not be looking to trade, Mulvey, Guerra, F-Mart, and others.
Santana will cost us, $22 for 6 years so that means it will cost us $132 million, and maybe more. Santana didn’t have a normal Santana year last year. There is speculation in Minnesota that his best years are behind him, so they don’t want to spend the money, not because they don’t have it, but because it is not a good investment for a thrifty organization.
So, I say make the deal, and make it soon. The Twins aren’t to sure about Lariano but they need to build for the future, and Omar will need to sell them that we are providing them with good long term options.
1.Martinez 1. Santana
2. Maine 2. Martinez
3. Perez 3. Maine
4. Pelfrey 4. Perez
5. Humber 5. Mulvey
In either case we have “El Duque” as long relief, and or started when someone goes down. It would be a good idea to get a Calon, or Garcia in a contract with tons of incentives.
At this point in winter we still have hope and remain optimistic. We hope this gift is coming, and coming soon.
With all that being said, I would much prefer the right side to the left side. I would much prefer having one question mark to two any day.
since you’ve included pedro and orlando in the staff, I assume you’re talking about this season. what suggests to you that Mulvey is in ready to be an everyday MLB starting pitcher? I’ve seen this idea posted several times, as if it’s assumed he’d be fine. Why?
Mulvey has had good numbers in the minors, and I do understand that he hasn’t pitched past AA. The Mets have used the 5th starter position to be a place to develop pitcher or to place a transient. That is what it was for Pelfrey, Gonzalez, Sosa, and others the last few years. So, as I understand it if we give up a big part of the farms pitchers, then we have to develop someone at the major league level. The past few years the Mets have held the same theory for RF.
The Mets have had the same M.O. for a number of years so I guess it’s experience. The Mets also believe they have the best pitching coach in baseball, so it is believed Petterson can get them through any pitching difficulties.
fire omar!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
omar is not doing a very good job!I believe he could have done more at the winter meetings!
we need a new gm!
actually i came out in 2nd place just behind you!
With Haren going to the D-Backs, I wouldn’t be surprised to see the Dodgers get into the Santana talks – and they have a butt load of young players the Mets wish they had half of.
But they need offense not pitching. Maybe in the absence of a market for good offense..they choose to load up on pitching but they are a team with no 30 hr hitters and barely any 20 hr hitters. They need bats….Andrew Jones does not really qualify as he is a serious ??? Roids anyone?
what im saying is what has omar done to help this team this off season? all jokes aside.
is it fair to criticize omar for not mortgaging the farm to scoop haren or bedard?…these guys have never proven that they can put one season together let alone unloading a ton of minor league talent.
he upgraded catcher, second base, and RF from the start of the 07 season.
i am truly apauled by the mets orginization. from manager to front office. after the collapse jeff wilpon sent a statement out to the fans on how upset he and management were. but NOTHING has been done to approve this team. he panic with castillo gave him 4 years…joke, and traded away l-milz. i have finally realized how much the organization is a scam to its fans and it shouldnt be omars job. WE NEED A NEW OWNER!
TILL OMAR HAS DONE SOMETHING TO HELP THIS TEAM BECOME BETTER THIS YEAR HOW CAN YOU SUPPORT HIM?
So, this offseason if you were Omar, what would you have done? What is your plan of action that would have realistically worked?
simple, give up both gomez & fmart for Johan, instead of refusing minnesota’s request for both OFs. keep millz to play rf, and give up a bag of balls for schneider (nats would have dumped his salary anyway).
look into otsuka, pick him up if his arm looks ok. anything else? I would have pumped up our prospects from a long time ago.
don’t do this last ditch effort of parading around maine and OP, makes us look sad.
not sign castillo for 4 yrs.
I love it when people say “Oh give up so-and-so for so-and-so” as if it’s a given that it would happen just because they say it would.
It’s easy to say this stuff from your home, but you and I are not privy to what Omar is. Look at what the A’s got for Haren. Do you seriously think if Omar gave the Twins Gomez and FMart, that we’d have Santana now? Get serious.
What exactly do you guys feel he hasn’t done? Omar Minaya’s JOB is to MAKE the METS organization WORTH MORE MONEY.
There are several different aspects to this, for example, selling tickets, putting talented players on the roster, developing talented players through the farm system, developing a fan base that WANTS to watch the games…
Where exactly do you guys feel he’s slacking in his job? We were ONE WIN away from the PLAYOFFS last year, AND I beleive that Schneider IS an improvement over LoDuca because defensively he’ll PREVENT far more runs from scoring than LoDuca would’ve ever out RBI’d him, PLUS Church will certainly replace Milledges numbers, PLUS he’ll NOT be a negative effect in the clubhouse.
The farm is certainly not anything to brag about, but then again, the international signings, specifically the Central American signings, ARE something to brag about. We’ve got some SERIOUS talent set to start filtering up through our farm system.
I beleive Omar is DOING HIS JOB! He’s putting a GOOD TEAM on the feild, he’s selling tickets, and he’s making this team profitable. Personally, I would much rather not screw up the next several years, and the talent we’ve got, just to save face this year.
Pelfrey HAS talent, he needs time. Gomez HAS talent, he needs time. Guerra, Humber, FMart, etc, all have TALENT, they’re just not ready this year.
I say sign a veteran pitcher or two, lace up the cleats, and lets have at it. This IS a better team than last year, simply with Pedro. Brad Lidge sucks, Tom Glavine sucks, we’re in the race automatically. Go Mets!!!!!!!!!
You are definitely a kool aid drinker. In the absence of any real moves that we missed….I would have to say that Omar is doing the best he can with the hand he is dealt. He could mortgage everything for Johan and give them all our most highly thought of prospects including Gomez, FMart, Pelfrey, Humber and Mulvey plus Heilman but the prudent move is not to.
time will tell if it is worth it. Bottom line we are not better than last years squad which should have made it to the playoffs. We are also not materially worse as the only real defection of note is Glavine and Pedro should exceed his numbers and win totals
Ugh, I can’t stand it when people refer to those who happen to think Minaya isn’t destroying the team “kool-aid drinkers.”
Church is an upgrade over Green. This is pretty much irrefutable. He had better numbers playing in an awful hitters park and the statue of Jackie Robinson that is being erected in the CitiField rotunda would be an improvement in RF defensively.
LoDuca, as much as he is lauded for his “talents” of not striking out and being gritty, was pretty horrendous last season. He was on the DL twice, he moaned and complained, only had an OPS+ of 80 and an OBP of .311 (compared to Schneider’s career 82 and .323 respectively), and was his normal terrible self defensively. So yeah, if Schneider hits to his career norms (which is more likely at 31 than LoDuca at 36), he will be an upgrade over what LoDuca gave us last year. Sprinkle in a nice dose of Ramon Castro and I believe the catching position should give us really nice production next season.
Wright, Reyes, and Beltran should both be as good and possibly better, as the former two learn to be more consistent over 162 games and if Beltran can ever keep himself from getting nicked up.
Delgado was coming off two offseason surgeries last season, making it difficult for him to work out, plus he had a kid, so he was probably spending a lot of time with his wife. Also, it’s his contract year. He “should” be better.
Alou, he’s a crapshoot, I have no expectations from him. But if he can stay on the field we know he will rake.
Castillo will have 2B and the #2 hole on lockdown all year, as opposed to the musical chairs we had at both spots at times last season.
I’ll take Pedro’s quality over Glavine’s quantity. Maine, Ollie, and Pelfrey have another year under their belts. Duque, see Alou.
Wagner, Feliciano, and Heilman had solid years last year. Schoenweiss came on strong at the end (and there were rumors of him pitching with a leg injury early on), Sosa looked decent out of the pen, Smith should be well rested. The bullpen is largely a crapshoot anyway. They should just hold auditions in spring training and go with the best from that. This seems to be the best way to build a pen.
Am I missing anything? Oh yeah, I expect to see a different Willie Randolph this year. Read an article where he seemed to still be bothered about the collapse, angry even. Remember, Willie is still a fairly young manager himself. Hopefully he will have learned some valuable lessons last season and incorporate this newfound knowledge this season.
Essentially, as an above poster alluded to, there is a lot of room for improvement on this team, which underachieved last season.
As for Omar improving this team, as far as I’m concerned, Church, Schneider, and Castillo are an improvement over Green, LoDuca, and Valentin/Easley/Gotay (and I like Gotay).
way too long a post. Go back to studying for you law finals
Here’s the Cliff Notes version:
Church>Green
Schneider/Castro>LoDuca (overrated)
Pedro>Glavine (quality over quantity)
Wright, Reyes, Maine, Perez, and Pelfrey = all a year of extra experience, possible for them to become more consistent/better.
Alou/Duque=Crapshoot
Delgado=contract year, no offseason surgery.
Bullpen=not as bad as advertised, will be sorted out in ST.
How’s that? Now, back to torts.
Nice work Squad.
Hope you are as good a lawyer as an Mets analyst.
Haha, thanks… I hope so too.
Great name, btw.
Who’s making excuses for him? I was simply stating some potential reasons to explain his drop in production. Offseason surgery, wife was pregnant, maybe he spent more time helping her out rather than rehabbing/working out and had a poor season as a result.
I’m not excusing him, just looking at reasons for why he could have a come back year.
“Also You think he’ll have a better year beacuse it’s a walk year. I would not want him based on that alone. What flag will the bum salute this year?”
I couldn’t make heads or tails of what this even means.
nice post, squad.
Agreed. People here are insane, they think that because the braves lost jones and renteria and added glavine and escobar, and the phills replaced rowand with lidge the mets are a third place team. Um guys, the mets top two competitors got WORSE this offseason and the mets improved this offseason ( even if it is marginal).
So naturally everyone assumes they will go from being one game out of the playoffs to third place. Its genius.
don’t listen to the uninformed fans that will type: Fire Omar! for anything that happens — they are the same embarrassment that chants Yankees Suck!
just use your better judgement and ignore them. The Mets right now are better than last year based on addition by subtraction alone, and if anyone really thinks Omar is not making another move before Opening day you are insane. So far he has not made the splashy move but he’s done ok overall. And let’s wait to see what the future moves are before judging them.
“Splashy” moves are overrated. JD Drew and Dice-K were the splashy moves for the Sox last year, but Okajima played a pivotal role in solidifying the pen early in the year and in setting up for Papelbon in the playoffs. He was not a much heralded signing at all.
You bring up so good, well thought out points, but putting them in all CAPS doesn’t make me agree with you any more.
Ah!,—Okay!—Thanks for straightening us out !
Allah, Allah, Akbar, Omar is Great !— Believe !!!
Damn Infidels !!!
Okay, so I have a complaint.
There is just one thing that Matt Cerrone does in several of his posts that just drives me crazy.
I don’t understand how one can take a trade that has been consummated which involves minor league players and explain how minor league players A,B, and C who were traded are the equivalent of the Mets giving up their minor league players D, E, and F. How can you honestly say that one group of unproven players is the equivalent to a group of unproven players in another organization? In the above post Matt writes: “the D’Backs essentially traded their eighth, seventh, third and number one prospect for haren, as well as two other pitchers, which would sort of be like the Mets giving up Fernando Martinez, Carlos Gomez, Philip Humber and Jon Neise, at minimum”.
Huh? What is that based on? The amount of potential? How is that measured? Is it the amount of pop that the organization has given its minor leaguers to boost their trade value?
Maybe Beane is related to one of the young guys he got from Arizona. Maybe Beane just hates Omar Minaya.
There are so many things that go into making a trade, I just find it hard to believe that a person can take the group of young guys that Arizona traded for Haren and then tell their readers what the equivalent group of Met young guys is. It’s just not that easy. All things are not equal.
I beleive he was basing his comparison on Baseball Americas “rankings” of the clubs best prospects. Or, at least something like that. Each club, has prospects, and you can certainly rank each prospect on a scale, comparing them to each other.
I completely disagree.
I can’t see how it’s possible to measure one unproven commodity against another.
i think are you trying to read too much into what matt was saying. he was simply taking the mets prospects, which have been ranked by the same system that ranked the dbacks prospects and plugged in the mets prospects that ranked 8th, 7th, 3rd, and 1st. i don’t think he was trying to say that the caliber of the players are equivalent. just that they were ranked the same in each respective farm system.
I will admit that I do now know exactly which Met minor leaguer is ranked where in this system. That being said, for argument’s sake, I will assume for the moment that our top two prospects are Gomez and Martinez. High ceilings on both for sure.
But how is it a fair comparison to say that trading our top two prospects is the same as the D-Backs trading their top two prospects if, (and again I am assuming), their top two prospects are power pitchers, and therefore are worth more, (or are at least more desirable) than Gomez and Martinez.
Again, it’s not really a big deal. I just find comparing minor league players, especially ones that play at different position is different organizations where they are developed by completely different people, to be an abstract art form.
Like I said, I didn’t know who the top two prospects were in the Mets’ system.
I don’t know, maybe I do agree with him. All I know is that this makes more sense to me in my head than it does when I try to type it out.
i really think this was a terrible deal for the dbacks…billy beane robs another gm blind. haren is okay, but i bet those prospects turn into the next six year to free agency studs beane will not pay a lot for…good move for the a’s.
Yes, but Beane doesn’t expect to win, anyway.
The D-Backs do want to win, and they added a dynamic SP to their rotation to give them a great 1-2 punch. And all they had to give up were minor leaguers who may or may not amount to anything at the ML level. If I’m a D-Back fan, I pretty stoked right now. If I’m an A’s fan, I’m really tired of “Moneyball”.
Why would you be tired of Moneyball? Without Beane they’d be the Royals. He struck out some in his last round of retooling, but his track record should give him the benefit of the doubt. To say Billy Beane doesn’t care about winning is absurd. He’s the only one smart enough to make teams believe adding a Haren or Santana will “put them over the top” when they really don’t significantly increase a team’s chances of winning a WS by as much as it takes to acquire them.
None of the players that he obtained for Danny Haren are going to fill the role that Haren is vacating. That’s not exactly acting with an eye toward winning in 2008.
Right, but he is making a calculated move. 2008 will be a rebuilding year, with an eye towards making a 4/5 year run starting in 2009.
Glad I’m not an A’s fan.
The fans here will be trying to trade for these guys in 4 years when it is time for the A’s to pay them. That’s the way the baseball system works.
The DBacks have it right. If you have a chance to win, go for it. The window closes fast, which, unfortunately, I think we found out in 06
anytime youre dealing with prospects, and theres a butt load of them here, it takes years to evaluate a deal.
you are wrong. Haren is a straight up stud. All this guy does is eat innings and get guys out. He is cheaply locked up. He is a legit ace.
laughable thread this is. 1st off the package for santana will not be that geat. in the end it will be santana who decides where he goes. hes in the greatest of all positions. he knows the red sox, yanks and mets will all pony up the money, so he just has to decide where he wants to be, and the twins are stuck with that decision, or they get nothin after next year.
as far as omar not gettin anything done, wake up. the other teams dont have to deal with omar 1st. they arent the mets minor league system. just because a player gets dealt to another team doesnt mean omar dropped the ball. just because my blender broke, it doesnt mean i have to go by the high end model at macy’s. i can get a comparable model at wally world. and just because i got it at wally world doesnt mean i wasnt interested in the 1 at kmart. hell, i might even be able to fix the 1 i have now, or it may even be a wiring problem at the wall socket. but hey, if the one at macy’s goes on sale cheap, ill be all over it.
This one gets my vote for “Post of the Day”.
I ‘ll put my vote in on it
I like it too, but what if I don’t think my blender is broke?
I just have a glass and spoon but I think it has the potential of being an excellent blender next year.
If they can bolster the bullpen, they will be better. Glavine’s innings need to be replacaed but maybe Pelfrey or Mulvey can step up.
pedros back, elduque could be healthy, the #5 starter could be more reliable, theres lots of options already to fill glavines mediocre innings. bull pen arms are always a crapshoot. they werent as bad as most think last year. and the year before they were supposed to be horrible goin in. you just never know with that aspect.
Totally agreed here.
Everyone makes the mistake of comparing the ‘07 bullpen to the ‘06 bullpen. That ‘06 pen was like once in a liftetime. It was the perfect storm. They acquired Wags to close, Heilman and Sanchez were pretty much awesome, Feliciano and Bradford were a great L/R tag team, and Darren Oliver would soak up innings like a sponge, saving the pen on days a starter would falter.
Odds are, even if we brought everyone back and Duaner doesn’t go down, they don’t replicate ‘06. That was just a really special bullpen. Rarely do you see a pen so deep and versatile.
and remember, this no-talent omar guy (you know, the one that someposters think is sleeping and should be fired) is the guy that put it together.
Yea, but he also brought in Julio and RHernandez. He just gets a bunch of players and hopes for the best. It happened to work in 06, not so in 07. It’s pretty much a crapshoot.
So if you want to give him credit, then fine, give him the blame as well. Which is what I do.
But don’t say he deserves credit one year and not the blame the year after.
I don’t think either of us are admonishing Omar from blame. We’re just trying to get out the other side here.
Mets fans are too bi-polar. One year it’s In Omar We Trust and the next he’s lazy.
No one is going to be perfect. We just happen to think Omar has assembled a nice team.
So you would trade Beltran, Reyes, or Wright for Johan?
Squad thank you.
I guess fans have forgotten what it was like pre-Omar. We traded Kazmir!! How in the world? At least it seems now we have a plan, and he is working the plan.
The Farm system isn’t where it could be, but it seems to be going in the right direction.
i think for the following years to come its going to be hard to be a mets fan again…its starting to get harder and harder to compete with these other teams in the national league with the team we have it seems like everyone is making some kind of positive moves and we continue to go backwards or stay a inch over sea level …
what a shame ……..
I just don’t get it. This team was the odds on favorite to win the NL last year and only a historic collapse kept them out. The odds of them not making the playoffs last season were enormous. I seriously doubt this will happen again. As someone above mentioned, the Red Sox missed the playoffs in ‘06 and kept pretty much the same team together. They didn’t start shipping guys out. They make some minor moves and went right back after it.
The Mets have made some minor changes that could go a long way towards solidifying this team next year. A team that already has Wright, Reyes, Beltran, Delgado, Castillo, and Alou.
Honestly, what moves did people expect them to make?
How come there were no ramifications from the historic collapse? LoDuca/Mota/Millz the scapegoats?
There needs to be a message sent. Willie should have been fired. Omar better not fire Willie in 08. He better go down with the ship.
TheLo Duca and Milledge moves are both very questionable. You just don’t trade two personalities like Lo Duca and Milledge to a team in your division. That would be like Miggy and D-Train to the Braves. But, he what do i know.
I did not lose faith in the Mets after the collapse, but i’m sorry to say that much of my outlook on Minaya’s job of stocking personnel hinders upon his ability to sign Santana; its no reflection upon our prospects whom i think are vastly underated; in fact, they should recognize their tremendous value as their potential could net Johan Santana.
Understand that Johan Santana is a REAL potential Hall Of Famer, like AROD…
unlike Pettite and Clemens and Lo Duca.
I won’t ask Omar, because i believe he is trying… Please Santa, bring us Johan Santana for Christmas.
Happy Holidays!
Big difference between Loduca/Milledge and Cabrera/Willis… the latter two are actually good.
at least cabrera is anyway
“Shea Stadium is Half Full: An honest, yet positive look on the New York Mets.”
Is that intentionally ironic?
It sure it… but it fits.
I mainly try to be objective, but with a more positive lean.
Too many pessimistic Mets fans out there man. Everything is not all doom and gloom.
You can never ever blame a Mets for being pessimistic.
+1
that was a flat out incorrect analogy.
i am just really depressed mets fan right now.i have wanted haren since last off season. it just seems there is no plan, or strategy. i don’t want to make a move just to make a move, that doesn’t help anything, but…… do something that makes this team better.!!!! this began last off season, no improvements made to weak spots and no depth added to an older starting rotation. it seemed when omar came in he had a vision of where he wanted this team to be, maybe he got spoiled by his small taste of success w/ the playoffs and got a little aggrogant about bidding on sp fa’s last year.
right now i see no vision coming outta flushing, and its damn frustrating!!!@@$##^%^$$^^%^^%
Here’s the vision: last year was an aberration of epic proportions and we’re confident that our guys will rebound this season.
Proceed with dumping kool-aid on me while proclaiming me “Pollyanna.”
so last season he should have landed zito? lilly? meche? would that have been better? i dont see an ace in that bunch. now hes supposed to land haren. how? do you have a magic mushrrom that will make beane believe the mets could match that offer and still be able to improve in the future? can you guarentee haren wont be the next mulder? are you willing to not whine when it works out that way? can you guarentee that all the met top prospects arent going to be worth more next year? a little realism couldnt hurt here.
I feel like I should post something, but it is getting tiring trying to look at the big picture (long term future of the team, having some depth, etc.) and getting insulted for it.
Haren is certainly a talented guy, but he is not Tom Seaver in his prime. I wouldn’t go and give the D Backs the pennant quite yet.
The Mets are still one of the more talented teams in the league. And (for good or bad) they have very few open spots to fill (as noted earlier by another poster).
The Pen will happen in ST, maybe a back-up OF/1B on board, and that leaves 1-2 rotation spots to fill.
And I will put my kool-aid shirt back on to say that the SP “crisis” is overblown. They could go with the current arms and likely be OK. But, I would like to see (and I expect Omar will deliver) at least on e more solid pitcher.
Maybe not Johan, but someone that can slide into the middle of the rotation and have a solid year. Pelfrey can be #5 at some point, after riding Duque as hard as they can until he cracks.
I do think that, right now, the team is better than the one that insihed last sesaon, and will likely be even better by opening day.
THey are as good as the Braves and Phillies. Not perfect, but none of these teams are.
You truely are one of the few that usually speaks logic on this site. Many “Metsfans” are frusterating, but you and your opinions are great. Thanks.
I may be in the minority here, but I think this deal will help pave a path for Santana to the Mets.
1) The A’s didn’t get any proven major league talent for their ace. They got 5 prospects. This takes a lot of pressure off of the Twins GM to get back the major talent their fanbase may want. (Reyes)
2) The Mets can offer a similar package that the Sox do, as they seem steadfast in not including certain players in the same package. (Lester/Ellsbury/Bucholz) I truly think the Red Sox are in the sweepstakes as a way to C–kblock the Yankees. They don’t need Santana, but would love to have him. With their payroll already high, Santana’s contract might be a luxury tax nightmare for the organization.
3) The Twins can get Santana out of their league, so their fan base doesn’t have to watch him beat them year in and year out.
4) Omar’s move so far this offseason indicate that his focus is on aquiring Santana. He may have to overpay, but I’m sure he realizes that his job is on the line. This is a make or break career move for him.
5) The Mets realize now, more than ever, that they need Santana, because facing Webb/Haren in the playoffs is going to be a huge challenge.
So, my prediction… Omar’s Christmas gift to his fanbase…
Santana for Gomez, Pelfrey, Heilman, Mulvey, Guerra. Heilman steps in as their closer, and they can trade Nathan to continue their rebuilding efforts.
I hope…
This is an earnest post and I honestly want to see how the pessimists among us respond. Please try to give rational responses rather than MLB The Show type scenarios. Responses of “…well, he should have done something!” are wasting everyone’s time. Let’s try to get a good dialogue going here.
For all of those bellyaching over Minaya’s “laziness” or “stupidity” please enlighten us as to what you wanted him to do. Thing about this rationally, the team is pretty much set.
Lineup: Reyes, Castillo, Wright, Beltran, Delgado, Alou, Church, Schneider. Bench: Easley, Castro, Chavez, Anderson, Gotay/Gomez. Rotation: Pedro, Ollie, Maine, Duque, OPEN. Bullpen: Wagner, Heilman, Feliciano, Sosa, Schoenweiss, OPEN, OPEN.
From where I’m sitting, he locked up 2B, RF, and C for next year, all of which are upgrades over their ‘07 counterparts. The lineup looks balanced with a nice mix of impact hitters and table setters. The bench looks pretty solid, and I’m fine with our top 3 bullpen guys. The rest of the pen will probably sort itself out in Spring Training.
So aside from a spot in the rotation (which he is obviously working on via a trade before he goes to the crummy FA market) and two spots in the bullpen, what/where would you like him to upgrade?
I agree with you. If you read my post above yours, I think Omar is doing a good job, and everyone is jumping all over him right now.
I think everyone is upset still about the Milledge trade, because he didn’t sell high last offseason, and he sold low this offseason. That’s my biggest gripe with Omar.
Hopefully, he learns from the mistake and makes a trade this offseason… If he can pull Santana for our farm, I’m happy. We have 3 picks before the second round, we can rebuild our farm system. We can’t, however, trade for the best pitcher in the game often.
In Omar I Trust.
I don’t get where you think he sold low. He got 2 solid, but not great starters for 1 potentially great starter.
Church is Aaron Rowand over a 162 game average season. Schneider is better than Paulie Steroids right now. To me, that sounds like Omar might have prevailed.
I also agree with you, other than I strongly believe that Sanchez, due to his two years ago first half, should be considered part of that bullpen until proven otherwise rather than the other way around.
I too feel that Omar has been doing a great job. And many of the people are feeling threatened by the Hankee fans they know.
I saw Mike cameron news on rotoworld, and i realize this is pretty unrealistic, but, if there is any truth to the rumor that some teams are interested in trading for Endy, why not trade him for some pitching (BP or starter i dont care) and see if you can sign cameron. You can tell him hell start at least 3/5 of the season ( a solid month for Alou’s sabbatical, platooning with church, and spot starts for all positions) add another impact bat off the bench, and use him as defensive sub for alou late in games. I think he might be willing to sign a 1 year deal because there is not really a market for him anymore, the PED suspension, and he can rebuild his value for next year. Thoughts? Feel Free to call me a moron
Man, after “the catch” I really think that trading Endy away would be the bad move many fans (not myself included) think the Milledge trade was.
Endy is a fan favorite (in fact, I named my dog Endy), it’d be pretty hard to get rid of him. Unless of coarse, we could trade him straight up for Johan or something. ;)
call your dog, Santana
as long as you feed him, he’ll love you
And did you see the comment by Cameron’s agent? He said they will wait to hear from interested teams because there are immenent moves to be made meaning some clubs will be interested in Cameron filling in at a OF hole. Can this mean the Mets trading Church and Gomez in a deal for Johan and getting Cameron to play right. Just my wishful thinking of course but wouldnt that be great?
I’ll say this, now with Jim Edmonds being traded, I believe this has been one of the most active offseasons I’ve been able to witness so far, especially the more well known names.
Hey guys…….
can we please get Johan? Pleasee…. or Erik Bedard. Omar just do the trade my dude. Dont think about it, just do it. In the words of Emeril Lagase, “Bam”.
and in the words of Larry the cable guy “get ur dun”
i see several posts about Mets being a third place team.
i understand the Phils being ahead but the Braves?
did they not just trade thier SS who hit .330 and their gold glove CF left as a free agent..
They add Glavine and we bascially put Pedro in his place.
Why do they now finish ahead of us?
I think that there are so many people feeling threatened by thier freinds, co-workers, people they know, that are Hankee fans, that they’re basically considering themselves second to the Yankers, and also conceding the division to he Philroids.
Just kidding. I feel the same way as you.
The phillies are not even ahead of us. We had to stop playing in Sept. for the phillies to win last year.
The Smartest Statement of this post:
Everyone is sore because all the other kids are getting their Christmas presents. As for us? We didn’t (haven’t yet?) get quite what we expected.
I don’t understand the Valverde trade. Dude was dealing nasty all year last year, totally clutch. I’ll get a good laugh if they miss the playoffs on account of a few blown saves this year.
ACE RACE:
DBacks 2
Mets zip
“And around the stretch they come, wait, is Omar the Mouthpiece, making his move? “
Why is it that year after year the Mets cannot compete in trades like this? And why on earth have they acted like ‘good citizens’ in the draft, as Omar put it the other day. Ridiculous. I think the Wilpons know that the fans will come back for more no matter what the team does.
Posters are acting like Omar has five deals on his plate for major additions and he’s just reading the comics. Half the posts are like this. Ridiculous really. We have a good team. Take a breath and look at our every day players; they’re good. We loved them last year until the collapse because we thought they were good) They collapsed, which hopefully will put some firm resolve into them making this year count all the more. We’ll make pitching moves, whether through trades or free agency. We will. Hopefully it’s Johan. The thing to keep in mind though is that the Phillies last year had to get by with major pieces of their lineup hurt for major parts of the season (Utley, Howard, Hamels, etc), and they still won it.
I know many here would like it if the NL was not as competitive as it is; that we could dominate as in ‘06 every year, but that’s never gonna happen again. Remember the 1980s when the great Mets teams always had some nemesis who kept them out (before the days of wild cards)? The competitiveness is part of the fun of the game. I’d love it if we dominated every year but how likely is that? Are we becoming nothing but whining Yankee fans? Proclaiming our entitlements to win everything or we’ll take our ball and go home? Let’s take a collective breath and wait for the final moves to take place.
Not all of us think Omar is doing a terrible job. But I do wonder why they think they are good enough as is. That’s what they believed last offseason. Right now they are a club that will win about as many games as last year.
That’s where the patience comes in I think. Omar wants Johan as much as we do, but the Twins have been playing a very coy waiting game. Hopefully the Haren move helps the Twins make up their mind. Or Johan finally says, get it done with the Mets! If we get Johan I need no other gift this holiday season (except maybe a Johan jersey).
I hope you’re right and they get him–I expect those jerseys would be in big demand!
We have a good team. Take a breath and look at our every day players; they’re good. We loved them last year until the collapse because we thought they were good)
It is a medicore team that played under .500 for 4 months to end the season
Must be nice to be Omar, and get paid for doing nothing.
Since the 2006 trading deadline, Omar has been worse than useless- he’s actually hurt the club with his moves.
The team keeps regressing under him.
The only good news is that with another medicore season, Omar and his handpicked manager will both be out of a job.
Too bad we had to waste our time with either of them though.
What exactly makes this guy think he “had to” waste his time?
Lots of boos on opening day at Shea. Ah…..we’re the Mets again.
C’mon give me a break. Omar is doing a great job in a ridiculous trade and free agent money market. YES by doing nothing is some cases. Keeping his powder dry to try to get the best pitcher in baseball. Not wasting trading chips and or salary on free agents not worth half the going rate. No one wanted Lastings in this current trade market. The Mets didn’t have the chips to get Haren and you think it was because he traded LMiltz?
You guys have to lighten up. We are blessed to have Omar and Peterson and Willie. This team is now relevant on the field and in trading discussions and in the free agent market BUT for quality not crap.
IN OMAR (A FEW OF US) STILL BELIEVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Clomid luteal phase…
How to use clomid. Clomid multiple pregancy stats. Clomid price. How long is clomid in system…
Agreed… no way is F-mart higher then Carlos Gonzalez.. and I’ll bet when the BA top 100 list comes out its not even close
The D-backs paid a good price for Haren
Bingo….
Stop waiting for Santana and pray that Pelfrey or Humber develop into the next John Maine right away.
We could live with Pedro, John Maine, OP, Duque and the next John Maine.
I would love to see a big deal for a bat to come play 1st base of RF. A big young bat
Omar is a horrible gm.I have lost all respect for the man!He has done nothing to help the mets pitching staff!
They still can’t hit.
And how did that happen…By investing in the minor league system and staying away from buds slotting allowances.
As Mets fans all we can do is hope the Wilpons allow Omar to sign a couple of more veterans to minor league contracts with a spring training invite next week!
If Haren brought in this haul….I think we should revise the theory on being buyers and we should become sellers.
Maine on the market
Sign OP right now to an extension and Pedro to a 1yr extension with 2 option years based on innings pitched
Then realize we are stepping back in 2008 to be that much closer in 2009
Or watch…Omar does a crap deal to get a finished stick a fork in him Dontrell Willis
Let’s stay real here. Haren brought six prospects like these because he’s young and cheap for a while longer. Santana is a better pitcher but the acquiring team will have to pay for him like he’s a free agent ($20 million for 7 years?) after they surrender a package of prospects.
The A’s may actually have gotten more for Haren than the Twinkies wind up getting for Santana because Haren is cheap by comparison.
The Mets are the only team really desperate for an Ace. For Boston Santana would be a luxury. They’re in it to fend off the Yankees. Lots of teams could use an Ace. The Mets need an Ace. Omar needs to persevere, keep his cool, and stay with it. We may yet haul in Johan.
WHY WOULD ANYONE IN THERE RIGHT MIND TRADE MAINE FOR HAREN?? THERE NUMBERS ARE ALMOST THE SAME MAINE IS CHEAPER. THEY SHOULD GIVE US SOMEONE PLUS HAREN FOR MAINE
wtf would u trade maine for? We are ready to go the playoffs this year. wtf?>??????? Seriously its not like we are rebuilding. Do you see the Yankees or Redsox or Angels or Dodgers or Padres or Dbacks or PHillies or Braves or Brewers or any team hoping to compete selling pitchers? Also, Tex WILL MOST DEFINITELY hit the open market. When is the last time a Boras client didnt? And also, why would the dodgers trade for Tex and then trade Loney. Loney is locked up for 5 years cheap, and he is young. He is more valuable then Tex IMO given his salary, skill, and service time remaining. Tex will indeed be a free agent.
If Maine’s our #1 we’ll finish 3rd for sure. That 6+ ERA in the 2nd half still leaves me up in the air as to whether or not he’s for real.
The made teh playoffs in a crappy division and with the aid of a bad ump call. Let’s not go crowing them 2008 Champs just yet. Dont’ forget, they traded their closer.
We didn’t make the playoffs in a division where the winner won 89 games. In a garbage league. The 2007 Mets were not a very good team. By all expectations the 2008 Mets won’t be very good either.
I know Cerrone has a deal with SNY and cannot be overtly critical of the regime and has to try to put a positive spin on all news. But that doesn’t mean the rest of us have to be propagandists. The above comment about being sellers in the pitching market isn’t that bad of an idea. It is doubtful 2008 or 2009 will be our year. Maybe now is the time to regroup and aim for 2010. I know they won’t do it, but it may not be a bad idea.
PS: Cerrone, I love your site and thanks for your hard work. I don’t mean to criticize you, but you are now a defacto Met employee and I understand you can’t be negative about Omar.
We gave away the season last year. please do not forget that we should have won by 15 games but we lost to the nationals and marlins. we are still the best team in the NL and for the record….THE NL IS NOT THE WEAKER LEAGUE. THE AL HAS A DH AND THAT IS THE ONLY DIFFERENCE. ITS NOT JUST THE HITTER (AVG IS USUALLY 30-100-300) BUT THE FACT THAT WHEN A PLAYER IS HURT OR TIRED THEY CAN JUST DH WHERE IN THE NL THEY DO NOT PLAY. THE ONLY GOOD TEAMS IN THE AL HAVE DH’S (EXCEPTION IS ANGLES) AND THE NL DOES NOT HAVE THAT POSTION
stop drinking the Omar/Met koolaid people! “we should have won by 15 games but we lost to the nationals and marlins” what the hell does that say??? the Mets are an average team with an average rotation and an average lineup, so dont say we should have won anything. Omar needs Santana so he might as well trade the farm or we are done in the NL and our division in 08. bank on it
I agree so much, in mid season 06 when the Yankees suddenly overcame the Red Sox in the division and started running away it, did Epstein start selling off all their prospects to get back in the race? No they stuck to their plan and just wrote off 06, and a year later they’re world series champs and with their farm system there’s no reason to expect them to fall off any time soon. This year when the Yankees looked near dead at the beginning, did Cashman start selling all their young prospects? No he started bringing them up to the big leagues, and they were a big reason the Yankee went from the bottom of the league to a play-off team. Even with Santana, I don’t think we’re a championship team in 08, and with all our prospects gone, who do we have to fill in once Delgado, Beltran, Alou and probably Castillo made their yearly trips to the DL. Never mind the fact we still don’t know for sure how Sanchez is going to come back, how long Pedro will be healthy.
That’s one way of looking at the situation. If Pelfrey or Humber progresses into the next John Maine, then our rotation is formidable. At the price we’re being asked to pay (in terms of prospects) for the available Aces, developing these young guys may be our best bet. Don’t get me wrong, Santana is obviously a proven Ace and an Ace is what we need. Pedro may still be that Ace too (imagine the two of them at the top of the rotation?).
What I really like about your comment is the first base position being raised. It’s like we’re just ignoring the situation and hoping Carlos comes back. First base is the place where you put the big bat. Carlos Delgado no longer qualifies as a big bat (go ahead Carlos, please surprise me) The Q; where do we come up with this big bopper at first? Face it, if Delgado was raking like he used to in his hayday, we would have won a lot more games last year! FMart is not/ will not be/ the answer for another year or more unfortunately. Ideas?
great post and your 100% correct
I guess it really depends on what the Twins are comfortable with. I really think the METs are the only ones it as you pointed out. I do think the Yanks would return to the table but Boston can simply one up them and the Yanks know it so plus they really need Joba and Hughes since their rotation is so thin.
It is also up to Santana as has been stated many times. He owns all the cards. If he does not want the Yanks or Boston…than we are the most likely destination. He could wait it out and the Twins get the picks or he could say get this done now or I’m announcing my intentions publicly.
Bottom line…we have to wait. Johan is not a quick solution
I don’t know man, there have been some winners.
I can’t wait until your posts when we’re in 1st place.
next july youll be posting under the name:
returnoftheiknewtheydbein1stallalong, like so many of your 1/2 empty breathren
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA THAT’S FING AWESOME
So which is it?
Are we 2x’s worse than last year, or are we arguably the same team as last year?
That makes sense. Because there are just so many L_atin Gms running arou…. oh wait, there aren’t.
If you don’t agree with the trade, that’s fine… there are certainly valid arguments that can be made. No reason to disparage Omar.
if teams around US improve and WE do not,,, WE have gotten worse. + WE didn’t even make the playoffs last year…
hello
HELLLOOOOOOO
It’s just easier to whine and complain and then be on board later than to be rational and optimistic.
Just hope they win, because we’ll never hear the end of how they all “knew this would happen” etc…
How have the teams around us improved? Look at the All-stars who have left the Division: Renteria, Jones, Rowand, Willis, Cabrera.
Plus you all are forgetting about the incredible effect injuries play in whether a team is good or not.
Please, do tell. Hit us with the truth. We wait with bated breath.
if ignorance was bliss, youd be the happiest being on the planet.
Again, how is he lazy?
This team’s roster is pretty much SET. There are ZERO open spots in the starting lineup and ONE in the rotation. He’s waiting to fill out the rotation spot because he hopes to land an ace. The bullpen will be sorted out in spring training.
Honestly, what was Omar supposed to do? Just make moves so he doesn’t appear lazy?
Lilly as a two might be pushing it, but Meche would have been a nice addition. He has really good stuff and could have had a Chris Carpenter like renaissance coming over to the NL.
i agree they dont suck, but does it really cure the problem of no ace type? silva could be the same pitcher this year, but is that what these guys are whinning about? if lilly is a #2 then even i would complain, because that would me your ace is crap. not to metion the financial aspect of takin on an injury risk, no sure thing, failed more than once pitcher for $40 mil over 4 years.
a decent addition yes. but what would they have missed out on last year, this year, and the next couple of years if they spent the money on those types? like it or not, the mets play with a budget, unlike the yanks and sox. theyd still be searcin this year with less resources to do it.
If they would have signed Lilly or Meche last year they would have been in the playoffs and you wouldn’t see all the crying this off-season.
Believe it or not the Yankees and Sox play within a budget based on their resources. The Mets resources are very much in line with the Red Sox and could afford to spend similarly. Read this book, “Diamond Dollars: The Economics of Winning in Baseball”by Vince Gennaro. Vince Gennaro is a consultant to several Major League Baseball teams and teaches a graduate course on the business of baseball in the Sports Business Management program at Manhattanville College. This follows a 20-year career at PepsiCo, where he was president of a billion-dollar division.
how do you know hes content? is there an unwritten rule somewhere that says the team has to be assembled by december 14th? the majority of moves made in baseball are after new year every year. get a grip
and the dbacks have to show that the haren of the 1st half is the haren they got. they have to hope the youngsters progress and not hit a wall. they have to find a closer to solidify a questionable pen. point is every team goes into each year with concerns and question marks. if it was black and white theyd have no reason to play.
El Duque is signed for next year and Minaya said he is in the rotation.
Whatever your opinions of the team, the starting lineup is set.
Reyes SS
Castillo 2B
Wright 3B
Beltran CF
Delgado 1B
Alou LF
Church RF
Schneider C
I think that’s a pretty solid lineup. Against lefties/off days:
Reyes SS
Castillo 2B
Wright 3B
Beltran CF
Alou LF
Delgado 1B
Castro C
Church RF
You could even slot in Easley every now and again at 2B/1B/RF.
I just don’t see where these big upgrades were going to come from.
I guess, we give up next to nothing yet we get the big name player.
I guess b/c Omar has already done that in getting Maine, and Delgado he set the level of expectation very high for himself.
A little unfair.
But, we can all hope it happens :)
I still think we need a SP another righty OF and a RP.
Maybe Santana/Livan, Mench and Otsuka.
That would be perfect even if we dont get Santana.
originality just aint your thing is it? but id expect no less from someone who “strikesout”
come up with that masterpiece on your own kramer? or just wishful thinking?
thats because they don’t
yeah but like every other small market team they’ll trade those players as soon as they start to really do good and get near free agency
PROBABLY BUT THEY HAVE 4-5 YEARS ON ALL THESE PLAYERS BEFORE THEY MAKE MAJOR$$
what is “next time mets win a WS?”
————————
Alex, I’ll take ‘”roid users freakish offsprings” for $1000
DiceK >>>>>>>>Silva
guierllNO MOta<reeetard
guierllNO MOta is clearly the first. don’t inject the roids into your head, it doesn’t help MOta.
hahaha
Omar has acquired the best players available each year:
Beltran and Pedro
Delgado, LoDuca, and Wagner.
Actually, reading your post, it looks like you are the bigot. Central America is where he knows the players best, and he has brought in some real superstars into the leaguye out of there.
Also, “I guess Omar the bigot is doing a good job because you said so!!!!!! ”
Well, my response to that is, I guess Omar the superstar GM who has revamped the Mets into an NL powerhouse, after inheriting the WORST FRANCHISE IN MLB, WHERE NOBODY WOULD PLAY, is doing bad because you say he is. You are the despicable human being. I feel so horrible for you. Youre life must really be awful that you are so angry. I know you will come back to me and say that you have lots of money and a hott girlfriend and a nice car, but really you live in your mothers basement and eat stale chips and get no girls ever. God bless your soul.
Yet you dont begin at all. He asked what you would do and you cant come up with anything so you blast Squad. That was real grown up of you. If you see holes then please enlighten us. You seem to think you know a lot so please educate us. The question was put to you what would you do to fix what you think is an inadequecy. Now remember, no cheating. Also remember that no one likes your minor league prospects and theres no talent on the free agent market, so GM dcullin23, make your improvements starting….now.
What would you do? Please be constructive.
Yeah, like we were better before he got here. Wake up, open the shades and get yourself a cup of coffee.
dcullin23, You got to stop. it’s not funny anymore.
take that elsewhere, man
we’re in here talkin’ Mets and havin’ fun
dcullin23, are you sure you’re not a Yankee fan? I get it, you don’t like the current Mets team but you have not told us what would make this team better since no one in the Mets team is getting it done.
Well said.
blanton is underrated. he would do very well in the NL, and plus he pitches over 200 innings a year
yea pathetic.
Reyes (should have won the gold glove)
Castillo
Wright (gold glove)
Beltran (gold glove)
Delgado (walk year always means bigger #’s)
Alou
Chruch (45 Doubles)
Snieder
Pedro, Oliver Perez, Johnny Maine, El Duque, Pelfrey/Humber/Carlos Silva
we can beat anyone in the NL
reALAX HE GOT TIRED. I WILL BET ANYONE ON THIS POST TAHT WILL WILL HAVE A BETTER 2ND HALF THAN LAST YEAR
Whatever you say bounces off of me and sticks to you. Nah nah na boo bell.
Whew….I feel better now that I have put you in your place
“way too long a post. Go back to studying for you law finals”
See, this is the ignorance that people post when they absolutely have their point smashed and disected into pieces. They start getting into semantic arguements about spelling and size of the post and whatnot. You just conceded the point to squad.
That’s nice in theory, but if there’s no splash to make (i.e. you don’t have the pieces to get who you want) you have to make do. I don’t blame Omar for not having the minor league talent to trade for Santana or Bedard for two reasons.
1) He took the GM position from a guy who’s philosophy on the minor leagues was “trade them all, we’ll make more”
2) He would have had better picks the past few years, but then we wouldn’t have Pedro, Beltran, or Wagner. Without these three, we wouldn’t even be taking about the post-season.
What splash is there to make? The Mets simpy don’t have the prospects to get the pitcher they need. Before you blame Omar for this think about two things.
1) We may have had better prospects if Omar hadn’t signed Beltran, Pedro, and Wagner… but then we’d probably be the worst team in the division.
2) Omar took over a crap team from Phillips who’s philosophy on prospects is “trade them, we’ll just make more”.
I have no problem with the Mets getting a reliable #5 starter like Silva. It would certainly be an improvement over the staff they put out there last year. He’s number’s aren’t earth shattering, but if you can rely on Pedro to replace glavine, a guy like Silva will give you solid innings, 13-15 wins, reliability, quality starts, take pressure off of the bullpen, and allow Pelfrey to assume a middle relief spot where he can develop against major league pitching and not have to worry about his total lack of secondary pitches. Having a guy like Silva for four years at the back of the rotation is not a bad problem to have. If the Jacket (and Schneider) can help him understand when to throw the right pitch in the right spot, he might even surprise some people.
Would I rather have Santana, of course. But I just don’t think it’s going to happen.
So he should make trades just to appease the fans? I don’t think the mets are a 3rd place team, but I also don’t think we’re one pitcher away from winning the world series. Adding Santana isn’t going to get rid of the questions marks in the bullpen, or at first base and the outfield spots, or make our older guys less injury prone, or any younger for that matter.
I’d rather not make a splash this off-season and focus hard on building an ace farm system, like the Red Sox and Yankees have done, so that 2 years from now we can afford to give up 5 prospects for a Santana, without decimating the farm system. Or even better our prospects will have more value in other clubs eyes so we won’t have to give up 5 guys to get one impact player yet. Is the off-chance of winning a championship this year, if every single piece that didn’t fall into place last year does this year, and all our players bounce back, really worth the next 5+ years of our franchise? I know prospects are hit and miss, but if you don’t take those risks and wait on guys then you don’t get guys like Jose Reyes, or Justin Verlander or Prince Fielder.
because the failure of the staff to consistently pitch through the sixth or seventh inning throughout the season led to an overworked bullpen that couldn’t hold a lead at the end of the season, leaving the division to the Phillies? I mean, that’s what I’d guess.
bated instead of baited…impressive. people always get that wrong.