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According to Jayson Stark at ESPN.com today, citing ‘one 
source with knowledge of the discussion,’ it may be ‘several weeks’ before the Twins make a trade involving Johan Santana.
Stark continues to write…
“The most surprising aspect of those talks to some baseball people is that the Mets remain in the mix. It may be because the Twins would like to move Santana to the National League if possible.
“But while the Mets have made a four-for-one offer built around center fielder Carlos Gomez, indications are that the teams remain far apart.
“The Twins originally asked for Jose Reyes. But one baseball man with knowledge of those talks says that possibility was dismissed ‘a long time ago.’”
…hmmm, well, if they’re surprised, i guess it’s because they have not been reading this site every day for the last month…such as this post, made as recently as yesterday…
Stark writes that the Twins essentially need the Mets to ‘rip up their farm system,’ if the two sides are to agree on a deal.
Also, according to Stark, the Yankees once offered Phil Hughes, but such a deal is now off the table, while the Red Sox haven’t budged from their offer of Jon Lester, Coco Crisp, Justin Masterson and Jed Lowrie.
Ultimately, Stark notes that the Twins could look to keep Santana through opening day.
…the sense i get, though, from people connected to santana, is that he wants a contract extension now…which is probably a wise move for a guy who has yet to suffer a major injury…and so, i suspect he’ll force the issue, whether the Twins like it or not…
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Four for one deal proposed by Omar:
Gomez, Heilman, Humber, and a pitcher (Pelfrey/Guerra/Mulvey/Niese).
Include any two of those pitchers and consider it done.
If the Mets are willing to move 4 top prospects I don’t understand why they wouldn’t set there offer apart from the Yanks and Red Sox by throwing in a 5th prospect. Any 5 player deal that involves acquiring Santana without giving up Fernando Martinez should be considered a “Win” for the Mets
I am going to sleep now. Someone please wake me up when Santana has been dealt!!!!!! I want this to be over…….
OK….have a good night Sleeping Beauty.
AMEN!!!
I say do it.
the red sox and yankees still have better offers.
You have to give up Gomez, Heilman and three pitchers
The Yankees haven’t made an offer, and if the Twins truly portray Gomez or Martinez as better than Ellsbury, it is assumed that they are better than Lowrie.
Gomez/Martinez > Lowrie
Pelfrey = Lester (Lester = more tame, Pelf = more upside)
Mulvey > Masterson (Not by much)
Heilman > Crisp (By a hell of a lot)
The Mets offer certianly is better.
The Twins are just holding off to see what happens with Bedard. The Reds may end up with a huge offer, but I don’t see how, considering Bruce and Cueto are untouchable, and Votto indefinitely fits in with their plans for next year and beyond, with Hatteberg, Dunn and Griffey all free agents after next year.
I think most teams would take Lester over Pelfrey.. one he’s left handed.. two he’s pithced much better against much better talent…
“…hmmm, well, if they’re surprised, i guess it’s because they have not been reading this site every day for the last month…such as this post, made as recently as yesterday…”
Nicely played!!
COME ON! make it happen omar!
I somehow have a feeling as follows. If I’m the Twins and I ask for Reyes, which isn’t absolutely unreasonable, if you are asking for Johann Santana in exchange, I can understand that he is off the table. BUT, I wouldn’t appreciate being told that he is off the table and so is Fernando Martinez. Martinez has to, as much as I wouldn’t want it, be offered for Santana, if that is a stumbling block. Omar can’t get too much of an attitude or he will louse up his chances. But another way I would prefer to see this go down would be to hopefully keep Martinez and a possible way, but not necessarily a way to keep him, but a way to make a Mets offer more attractive would be to offer cash – say 10 to 15 million or even slightly more, in addition to the prospects. What this would do is give the cash-poor Twins a chance to keep Joe Nathan, by helping with funds for a possible contract for him. This way, the Twins not only can keep one of their star players, but save face with their fans by keeping him and showing that the trade with the Mets of Santana had some added benefit. The Twins would not only be getting a bunch of our top prospects, but would have the “sure thing” of cash, which could be used to either sign a free agent, save for a later signing, or more promisingly used to re-sign Nathan and keep their closer. I’m surprised that I haven’t heard this suggestion before.
That’s actually one of the best ideas I’ve heard yet
hey cver… as usual you’ve got the right idea. now if only we get an emissary to coerce minaya to see the light, we’d be in good shape. even so, i feel uneasy about giving up gomez and martinez in one trade and i’m tempted not to make the trade and let 2009 be a year of discovery of exactly how talented our young guys are. play for 2010 and keep our guys intact. ya know that as soon as we trade one of our prospects, they’ll explode and we’ll be kicking ourselves.
Hi Scotty. Happy New Year, man. How ya doing?! We’ll be kicking ourselves if we don’t get Santana – that’s for sure. I mean, he could turn out to be a bust, but he sure looks good right now. The only other issue is whether is has taken any artificial substances. I’m not trying to say anything bad about him and I have heard absolutely nothing about him in this regard, but certainly when you are gonna bet the farm on someone like that, it needs to be considered and researched. Unfortunately, there is a unpleasant cloud over all baseball personnel at the moment. If Santana has another great year somewhere in 08 and we fall just short or worse and none of the “prospects” have breakout seasons, we will be sick over Omar not pulling the trigger on this. Still, we don’t know what it would take to get it done. I’m sure the Twins are asking for anything and everything we have.
I heart cver.
I heart George Cantstandya! Happy New Year!
and happy new year to you too, cver, wherever you are! tell the truth, aren’t you a little anxious to see how our prospects pan out while they’re still on our team or are you resigned that they are as bad as many lead us to believe? methinks that by knocking the quality of our prospects, other teams can ask for more of them. i think the quality of our prospects is fine and competitive, but it’s useful for other teams to downgrade them in trade matters. your thoughts, buddy?
I’m no expert, but between Fernando Martinez, Mulvey, Guerra, Gomez and Pelfrey – you would think, for heavens sakes, that at least 2 of them are gonna be real good. Martinez, Guerra and Mulvey are the ones that I favor. Gomez is nice too, I suppose. He certainly showed us something – he’s fast as hell. I just KNOW that we badly need an ace. There is Oswald, Peavey, Beckett, Webb, Santana, Sabathia and maybe a couple more in all of baseball that have really qualified as aces over a sustained period that aren’t old farts. Zito and Hudson probably also qualify. Not too easy to get guys of that caliber. If we have a chance, I think you have to take a chance and do what you can to get one. It’s what dreams are made of. OK, potentially nightmares, too. But we are not the Boston Red Sox. We need to make the move, I believe, not only to help us win, but to give us that kind of instant credibility that we got by getting Pedro. It’s the kind of move that makes other good things happen.
desperation moves for an ace almost never work
see Viola, Frank
Although we lost out on Rick Aguilera, David West who was such a great prospect supposedly – sort of a Pelfrey it could be said, never panned out to much. I think that Frank Viola’s 20 win season, the last by a NY Met, would be helpful in 2008 – maybe enough to put us over the top – who knows.
Frank Viola’s 20 win season was not worth Kevin Tapani and Rick Aguilera.
“Desperation” Moves for an ace never work? Really?
Carl Pavano and Tony Armas Jr for Pedro Martinez anyone?
What was the pile of crapola the D-backs gave to the Phils for Schilling? Padilla and Travis Lee I think were the center pieces?
I know everyone loves quoting the Omar/Colon trade.. but Phillips was the “key” to the deal, and he BOMBED with the Indians.. if Seizmore hadn’t devloped the way he has, no one would ever remember that deal..
If we’re built to win now (which is why we trade a Milledge for Church and Schneider) then there should be no question we do what we need to do get Santana.
We have 3, yes 3 first round draft picks this year.. what better time to clean out the fridge then when you’re about to go shopping?
The Twins aren’t cash poor. Their owner is as rich as it comes.
And you can’t just trade $10-15 million in baseball. Anything above a few million needs approval from the commissioner’s office. And baseball would never approve the swap of massive amounts of money on that magnitude.
If you could just hand over money, the Yankees would already be pumping out the Santana jerseys.
Oh, and, what about Fred and Jeffie makes you think they would happily hand over money like that?
You might be right and maybe that’s why I haven’t heard this suggestion before, but I’d like to know more about why you think that the commissioner wouldn’t approve the swap of money. Isn’t the revenue sharing thing about taking from the rich and giving to the “poor”? This would allow the Twins to keep Joe Nathan possibly. Maybe they’d only approve it, if the money was earmarked for their payroll, which could be fair. It would promote greater parity, considering that the Tigers just made a big deal, have recently won a pennant, and extended D-Train the other day. Jeff and Fred – yeah, I dunno. Is Fred more interested in seeing “Ebbets Field” before he dies than seeing another World Championship in Queens? With all due respect to him, I hope he takes some care with our team and hopefully good things will happen. I understand that experience has taught him that throwing money at players doesn’t necessarily win championships. He learned that in the Bonilla era.
While your point is well taken regarding revenue-sharing, the “perceived” effect of is to dissuade large market teams from overspending and raising their payrolls beyond a certain point.
That the Yankees laugh at it is evidence to its effectiveness at slowing down huge payrolls. That people like Jeff Loria bank the Yankees’ money on the other end with no intention of spending it is evidence of how the policy translates to on the field results for the smaller market teams.
Nevertheless, the intention is to prevent overspending by big market clubs. If baseball allowed a team to simply pay huge amounts of money in exchange for talent, it would give the perception that the game favors large market teams, and greedy owners, rather than loyal fans.
And all that is true. But perception, to some extent, is reality.
The money usually goes with the more expensive player. MLB would never allow the Mets to send money back in a deal like this.
I believe the commissioner’s office has to approve any money over a million dollars exchanged in a deal. I doubt that would be approved. That kind of deal opens an incredible Pandora’s box. It would set a precedent for baseball to start operating like soccer clubs that pay transfer fees for players and have a larger disparity between the haves and have nots than baseball does.
Besides, the Twins aren’t spending the money they get from MLB.com and luxury taxes on players so why would their fan base believe they would spend money acquired in a trade on players’ salaries.
Isn’t there a limit to how much cash can change hands? I don’t think the commissioners office would approve that much $$ going back and forth. That is why typically bad contracts are exchanged rather than large amounts of cash. I’m not sure if the Twins have any salaries they need to dump, but if so that could make it work.
of course such a trade including 10 – 15 mil for the small market team would never be approved fro all the reasons outlined above.. its ludicrous.
nice idea, but i have two problems with it:
1) any money over either $1 or 3 million has to be approved by the commissioner’s office. A number as high as your talking, I believe, is unprecedented and would be very surprised if good ol’ Bud allowed it.
b) the twinkies are indeed strapped for money, even though their owner, carl pohlad, is one of the richest people in america as well as the biggest scrooge (I think I read somewhere that he is actually worth more than “the Boss”). An exchange of money, such as this proposal, could very well end up back in his pocket with all the revenue sharing and luxury tax payments.
I’m pretty sure you can’t just give a mountain of cash to another team for a player… I think it has to be directly related to a contract in the deal.. and anything in that excess has to be reviewed and approved by MLB…
Isn’t that how the A-Rod to Boston deal got screwed up? They were trying to dramaticlly change the structure of his 252 Million Dollar Deal?
Let’s also not forget that the Twins Owner is a billionaire, yes a billionaire… 15 million to him is like toliet paper.. I understand he keeps a low payroll.. but I have a hard time beliving they “need” the money they just don’t want to spend it..
Plus I think they have always said if Johan goes, then Nathan will as well..
Without him and a healthy Liriano, in the AL that team has 0 chance.. they are already paying for the wild card with Cleveland and Detroit being so tough… so that means that either the Sox or the Yanks have to miss the playoffs? Ain’t happening
I’m sorry, but one player is not worth “tearing up your farm system” for. Sure, there are no guarantees with prospects, but there’s also no guarantee that Santana will lead us anywhere or that he will come anywhere close to living up to a 7 year, $150 million contract. I just don’t see how this would be a good, sound baseball decision, for now, or the future. I know it will momentarily erase the pain of the collapse and make us feel good about next year, but Santana can still only win 15-20 games a year (20+ if you’re lucky) and how long will he do that for? What about the rest of the rotation? We can’t trade away every decent pitching prospect. Sending them 6-7 of our best prospects would be a mistake in my mind.
You make a good point, but Santana is a true ace – which is maybe the biggest rarity in the game at the moment. He is in his prime and has been consistent. He stands to longterm benefit from being in the NL in a more pitcher-friendly park. I say longterm, because I do have a feeling that if he came to us that at first, he could possibly feel a lot of pressure from the big city, the fans and media, that he is unaccustomed to, playing in Minnesota, but in time, if this is a problem at all, he will be fine (see Piazza). As I’ve stated before, the key is to let him do his thing and not mess with a good thing. I’d try to give them Gomez, Mulvey, Pelfrey, Guerra, Martinez and 15 million dollars. That’s our top 5 prospects and some decent cash. If they won’t do that, then take Martinez or Mulvey off and offer Humber and another lesser prospect, so that it is 6 players and cash. They probably won’t get a better offer than that. The Mets will still have a fair number of decent prospects and there are actually no guarantees that ANY of these prospects will pan out to be as good as 5 out of 7 of Santana’s Met years would be. The key here is that we would have Santana signed longterm as our ace – a true ace – the best starting pitcher in baseball leading the NY Mets without giving up Maine or Perez (who incidentally there is no guarantees that we will keep past 08). Our 08 rotation would be Santana Pedro Maine Perez and whoever is left over as a #5. The D’Backs knew what they were doing. They have Webb and Haren. We need to at least have Santana and Maine when we leave Shea and open Citifield. There are plenty of other prospects and players who can be picked up, but not too many aces around and the money for them is getting greater and the hold on them by teams that have them is getting tighter. How else will the Mets get a true ace? The chances of ANY of these pitchers being that are much slimmer than anyone can imagine. Fernando Martinez is the guy we would probably miss the most.
Check Mike Hampton’s stats with Houston, and his age (and his size, stature and throwing motion) before saying Santana is a sure thing. Seriously, check the stats on the season before he came to the Mets.
Yes, that’s a good point, too. Trading for Santana could be a fiasco and sometimes, as Omar says, it’s the trades you don’t make… but even still, this guy looks awfully good. He feels like just what the doctor ordered and hopefully, he wouldn’t be needing to order a doctor for him.
theres a reason why the red sox and yanks wont empty their farm systems for this trade and why the angels and dodgers wont go near it
besides transfering the bulk of your top prospects you have to give 6 plus years and 140 plus mil to a soon to be 30 year old pitcher..
im all for taking a chance on this guy but we cant give them all our best prospects AND 150 mil.. its just suicide..
be smart about it.. make a fair offer and pay him a fair wage or move on.
I didn’t just read a comparison of Mike Hampton to Johan Santana?
No.. no way I read that…
Johan is this generations’ Pedro in his prime.. Mike Hampton shouldn’t be allowed to hold his cup…
How can you compare a multiple AL Cy Young Award winner to Mike Hampton?
Give me a break
Yes.. yes they are.. esp with 3 first round picks waiting to replenish the farm..
If we are win now team, as we were told when we traded away Milledge for Church and Shcneider, then we do this trade.
Pick a stand Omar.. when you pull a lopsided trade, it’s because we’re win now.. but we don’t offfer a big package cause we want to win later??
Can’t have it both ways
I agree, it is down to the nitty gritty now. The thoughts that sustain me is that : a) the Mets have 3 high draft picks next year and seem determined to spend what it takes to get great prospects with them. b) Santana , Maine and Perez are young and will be around 4-5 years: Pedro may just last 2-3 years which leaves the 5 spot open to a rook if any are available after THE trade. My hope would be that it would take 5 not 6 prospects. Tough decision but I do not like the alternative.This is the why Omar makes the big bucks and in Omar I trust.
Ollie could be gone after this year, he’ll be a FA and he’s represented by the Boras corporation.
Real good point. More big money. This is a conundrum. A f—–g conundrum as a matter of fact. But the alternative is a good possibility of mediocrity and that sucks….jworse?
Yeah, but if Ollie wants to stay with the Mets, he’ll tell Bora$ to be reasonale. Given the debacle Bora$ made with the A-Rod negotiations, he’s been taken down a peg or two.
Of course, if Ollie wants to test the market, all bets are off – especially with Teixeria (another Bora$ client) being a FA next year.
Adding one more pitcher to make it 5-1 is not going to get it done. Stark said the Mets would have to tear up the farm system, how is adding in one more pitcher to the deal “tearing it up” We could be talking about a 7-1 deal. Who knows?
I only think the Mets will be in it, if the Twins panic, and take less whether that’s before or during the season. I can see a point where they don’t want him in the American league and maybe they convince themselves that the players the Mets give them will do the job.
I can’t see how the Twins can even consider keeping Johan to start the season. It’s a risk that they can’t afford to take.
Santana has already said that he is vetoing any trade brought to him in-season. Do the Twins take him at his word? Can they afford to? Imagine what a disaster it would turn out to be if the Twins started the season with Santana, worked out a trade at the deadline for him, had him veto the trade and then leave via free agency after the season ended. That’s a catastrophe in Minnesota.
Maybe it wouldn’t make a difference to Johan when he was traded. Maybe his threat of a veto is all talk, maybe it isn’t. I just don’t see how the Twins could possibly feel that they can afford to take that risk.
They don’t ALL have to be top prospects, you can give 4 top teir and 3 lower level prospects. Unless we give an MLB roster player up in the trade.
Great. At least three more months reading about a possible Johan trade. I’m sick of it already.
Yep, the yo-yo continues.
Tomorrow the Red Sox will be near-terms with Minnesota.
Weren’t they interested in Mulvey and Joe Smith? How about offering Gomez, Mulvey, Humber, Smith, and Heilman? Would that work?
Don’t worry guys, all these Santana talks are dragging on. But we Mets fans will all celebrate once the Twins trade him to us. The champagne will taste sweeter. :)
famous last words by Willie Randolph.. well done.
Awesome post.
The Twins may be asking for Reyes now, or for some ridiculous “every pitcher in your system” package, but that doesn’t mean they’ll get a package that valuable from anyone, and it doesn’t mean they won’t settle for a fairer offer if Omar and the other GMs stick to their guns.
In this crazy market, the Twins think there’s a chance one team or another will blink and give them an absurd package of talent for their rental ace. And if you thought you had such a chance, wouldn’t you try to hold out for it? If they can’t get it, they can always simply reduce their demands and walk away satisfied.
Santana is a “true ace”, but his market value is not infinite. If they can’t trade him, all he ends up worth is a couple draft picks. That’s why Omar, and Cashman, and Epstein all think they can wait out the Twins and not have to trade all their best chips. And they’re probably right.
Likewise, if Omar can “get it done” right now by throwing in another highly touted prospect, that doesn’t mean it’s the right move. Although as fans, we’d jump at it just to end the cruel suspense, as a businessman Omar should wait if he has reason to believe he can get Santana two weeks from now for a smaller package that will leave the Mets with some remaining pitching depth.
If Omar was the only one interested in Santana, then your point would be so much more correct in my eyes than is the case in these circumstances. Omar waits 2 weeks, but then gets a call, opens the newspaper or whatever and finds out that the guy has become a NY Yankee, a member of the Red Sox, Angels, Cubs or whoever. Maybe Omar wouldn’t care, but that wouldn’t sit well with me or many of us.
The worst thing the Twins can possibly do is stick with Santana past April 1.
If the Mets, Yankees and Sox prove that they can win without Santana, the Twins are f***ed.
An alternative explanation for their relaxed position on the deal is that they are waiting for Bedard to go (or not to go) to the Reds.
I say forget about Santana already, Im tired of hearing his name and his asking price is too high.
The Twins will finally trade him around January 25th so he has enough time to get his visa in order to fly back into the U.S.. So this will drag on another four weeks. The question is: Who blinks?
Hopefully he winds up blocking any trade and hits the market next year.
amen.
Once again the Mets PR/ Metsblog is at it again. The Mets are in the MIX. What a joke!. The Mets are in the Mix so am I. I would like to sign Santana to a deal also.
Come on, Go back and read this Blog, You will read that the Mets are interested in almost EVERY PITCHER that is available.
On an other note. “THE WILPONS ” have raised prices over 35 % on all club level seats. This is a CRIME!!!!!! WORST COLLAPSE IN BASEBALL HISTORY AND RAISE PRICES BY 35%.
I am giving up my seats and will no long be at Shea..IT’S ALL ABOUT THE MONEY FREDDIE AND JEFFEREY COUPONS.. HAVE FUN RIPPING OFF YOUR FAN BASE. I HAVE YOUR LETTERS FROM THE EARLY 90′S BEGGING FOR YOU TO RENEW YOUR SEATS BY SAYING A NEW STADIUM IS COMING AND YOU WILL HAVE YOUR SEATS FOR THE NEW STADIUM. $17.50 PER SEAT THEN TO OVER $100 PER SEAT NOW WITH THE SAME B/S
so give up your seats and go away.
HA HA!
Enjoy rereading your letters this summer. The rest of us will be watching the Mets.
I’d LOVE to go to just one Met game! Grr you!
Good Riddence
I’ll just add that in the history of the NY Mets, to the best of my recollection, they have so mismanaged their pitchers – starting pitchers, in particular. Besdies from Seaver and maybe Koosman and Gooden, I don’t believe the Mets have had an ace quality starter for seven years straight. Whether one of our kids has as good a chance of being that guy as Santana has forf 6 or 7 successful years in Queens is truly anybody’s guess, but one thing is for sure. Santana already has the credentials. Sure, it isn’t about what you’ve done, it’s about what you will do. I’m just saying if you had a chance to have Pulsipher, Wilson, and Izzy or let’s say Randy Johnson, who would you rather have had in 1994 in retrospect for the next 7 years? It’s all a crapshoot – nobody can say anything else than that.
Good point. The Red Sox were fairly competitive, but then they went out and traded for someone named Pedro…
We want Johan we want johannnnnnnnnnnn.
Fire Isiah!!!
Give me Johan or give me Death..its the only way we get close to a ring on 08 09 10 and beyond
ps Roger i thought it was the ball Clemens is a a dirty pig and should atone and quit the bs…
I say rip up the farm.It’s not every day that there’s a differnce making ace to be had, ESPECIALLY when it’s your most glaring NEED. Plus we have 2 first round picks and a sandwich pick in the next draft which should help replenish the troops in the farm system. We missed the playoffs by 1 game. Don’t you think that with Santana pitching 2 or 3 games of the final 17 last year that we win the division?
AMEN!!
Great, we rip up the farm system and get a 20 game winner. so we just replaced Glavine with 5 or so more wins and have no farm system at all. so when we need to replace OP next year we can’t trade because we really have no prospects then. We can’t afford a FA pitcher because we will have 150 million invested in Johan all to get 5 more games. So we lose in the Division series instead and that is if Johan stays healthy. Great Move!
Niese, Guerra, some other prospect to come out of the blue like the Yankees apparently have now, 3 picks in the top 50 or so… options will arise to take care of necessary depletion at present.
Just don’t think it is worth the risk at this price. if the Twins want to talk reasonable great, but there is to much risk compared to the reward. we still need pen help and could really use a number 5 starter as well. I just think it is prospect/ money that could be better spent.
Having an ace like Santana makes the rest of the rotation, as well as the bullpen, better.
Usually, I’ll all for holding on to prospects. I was adamant about the Mets not trading for Manny a couple of years back. Even getting a masher, I didn’t want to give up a “sure thing” in Milledge (look how that one turned out).
But, an ace is an entirely different story, especially a Santana. Furthermore, other than Omar’s affection for Gomez, none of the prospects seem to be considered any where near untouchable, except for maybe F-Mart or Guerra. Yes, this mostly could be resultant of our prospects considered to be lesser quality than others and thus requiring greater quantity, but Johann is much greater than any of these guys upside/potential.
In the playoffs Johan pitches as the ace, Getting the most starts and i would rather have him in games 1,3 and 7 than anyone else you would put in. If you get into the playoffs thinking we’ll we lose in the Division series instead then why bother being a fan? Also we have 3 early picks in the next draft so there WILL be prospects in the farm.
If only these comments went through to Commissioner Gordon, Omar and CO.
Big Lou is my new best friend..come on people…let whoever play is bs..its all about tomorrow and the next day…who wants to win in shea one last time..
Thanks
I DO!!
makes 2 of us!
7 years at 20 mill/year? Ok. I just have a feeling that we be regretting this deal in about 3-4 years. I think in the end that what it may turn out to be:
4 years, $120 million = $30 million per year.
I know he’ll be very good during those years (I hope!!!). But that’s what it may come down to.
Will this be after he brings us a world series title?
If this were a NY Knicks blog, I bet most of you moron apologists would want to keep Isiah.
Is that why you are here? Because Isiah has ruined your favorite team.
Isaiah was a leader on a championship team. He knows how to win.
Hahahahahahahhahahaahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!
Just like you want to keep stupid, brainless Willie.
…and you would bring in who to manage the team?
No one is good enough for firemetmanagement. He might think Jesus was ok, but then he’d bash him for the way he managed the bullpen.
Jesus would pitch the late innings. He saves!
Nice… This guy just gets off by posting ridiculous post after ridiculous post. I wish there was a way to block his posts…
Are you talking about Jayson Stark?
what are the chances that Santana stays healthy for 7 years, now that ballplayers have to heal at the same rate as the rest of us?
if you tie up all this money in one man and should he go down; you can’t just sign another $140 M guy….
I’m switching, to the keep what we’ve got and sign some Livan type guy
Yup, that’s where I’m goin’
and keep Omar
but Willie? keep an eye on that fellow…
thanks for your time and have a nice day
Once again people are taking the vantage point that we’re a small market team. If he gave us 4, Cy Young type years and the last 3 were duds, would that make anyone not want to do the deal?
Let’s put it another way, if getting Santana, “guaranteed” you a World Series win, how much would you be willing to pay him then.
Then why not front load the contract? Make the first 4 years around $30Mil per so the remaining 3 years can be about $10Mil per. So, in 5 years time, when you need an ace again, Santana can slot into the 2 or 3 spot.
Hahaha $30Mil per. I’m on crack.
I agree with #41 above.
That said, if Pedro breaks down we are in big, big trouble. I believe ‘08 rests on the shoulders (and elbows, legs, etc) of a healthy Pedro.
That’s why we should also sign either Colon or Garcia.
metsblog moved on to final four!!
http://www.bustedcoverage.com/?page_id=1290
btw everyone keeps bashing us (blog and team) and MLBTR and busted coverage. how about we win, and shut them the hell up :)?
Santana’s available? Get it done, Omar!
Well, there ya go, doubters. For weeks Cerrone has been saying the Mets are very much in it and some of you kept saying nonsense, And how come Cerrone is the only one saying the things he’s saying, and Santana will be a Yankee, and blah, blah, blah. Have more faith!
It appears there’s a real stalemate here with none of the 3 teams overwhelming Smith who is wracked with inertia, indecisiveness, and over-cautiousness. As such, I think there’s a good chance Santana is not dealt before the season opens in which case that’s not at all bad for the Mets as I think the price will eventually drop. Santana will also likely exert increasing control over his fate by wielding his veto power more heavily as time goes on. Which is also good for the Mes since he has a preference for them and the NL. So be patient. I think this is going to drag on for a few more months at least.
As for the risk of a 7-year contract, sure it’s big. And, sure, it’s not likely to be a productive contract for all 7 years. Piazza’s contract wasn’t all that great for the last 3 years he was a Met. That’s the price you have to pay for premium talent. You have to overpay even for crappy pitchers so of course you have to overpay for good ones too. I think it’s a good risk for someone like Santana. Especially if he’s willing to adapt as he gets older. The Jacket and Pedro (if he’s still with the Mets) can help him learn new tricks over the next few years to preserve his pitching effectiveness. Santana may not be a #1 for more than 3-4 years of that contract but I think he’ll at least be a good and effective one for the other years. The risk is worth it, IMO.
If the Mets give up enough to talent to actually secure him, then the contract should be an afterthought. There’s no way money should be an issue for this team. People say Freddie Coupons this, Freddie Coupons that, but I think they are willing to spend the money, its just that they want quality for their dollar. They didn’t spend money for Silva because Silva is garbage, but they will not hesitate to break the bank for Santana if by some miracle they get him.
Am I the only one who thinks that Johan is being setup for failure with all these struggles in moving the guy?
If we get him, we’re going to expect a lot from the guy.
Fire Isiah!
He won’t be expected to do anymore then he has the last three years which has been spectacular. I don’t see a line of 13-14 era of 4.00 at all.
Hurry!!!—Let’s get this conference call set for monday,new years
eve!—Get gomez,heilmann,humber,Pelhrey and gotay on the
phone and tell them, they have been traded to the twins for
Johan Santana!
Minneapolis isn’t that bad. I had a layover at their airport in September. If those guys forget their iPods, there is an iPod vending machine near gate 25.
Could be worse. Could be KC.
What I am hoping…OK, True Omar is keeping things quiet right now, the calm before the storm. The storm with great waves and big slashes. I remember Omar saying something last year about not overspending on Barry Zito and saving the $$$ for Johan Santana. OK, I believe a chance to aquire Santana, the best pitcher in the game is something that has to be done at any cost. To land that caliber of a player is a once in a life time opportunity. A historic babe ruth type move which will leave the twins speaking of the curse of Johan for decades. Now realisticlly speaking, a package of minor leaugers to go along with an active starting pitcher is whats going to get it done. Omar hyping up Oliver Perez/John Main at this time a coincidence, I think not, but just trying to hype up trade bait. True when aquired, Oliver Perez had great potential but we only have him because of a 3 way trade gone bad when the Padres pulled back from the trade that had perez going for Scott Linbrink. Perez panned out but Im still not a fan of his and would love to see him included for santana if thats what it takes however unfortunately it probably will take John Main who has a more discount years to offer the Twins. So John Main, Church(in hopes of justifying a horrible trade) and a top tier prospect for Santana is what I believe is going redeem Omar. Which still leaves the Mets 1 pitcher short and probably a signing of some garbage free agent pitcher and out fielder, I’d say Jennings and whoever for the OF, but really would like to see Lowry on our roster since we would still have prospects to offer. Bam!
Perez is a FA after next year, It will be Maine, Gomez and another prospect, Church is 29 i think and may be too old for Minny.
as much as i would love johan i dont think omar is gonna get him, if i were omar i would jus give the rockies heilmen ans schowenweis for fuentes-which would really solidify are bullpen, we would have wise, sanchez and fuentes to go along with wagner ion the later innnings. then i would try and get blanton or lowry-both would be nice solid fits that wouldnt cost too too much.
Forget your meds dude? I for one, don’twant to see all those guys go for Santana. Give those kids a shot. If you want to root for a team that sells the kids and buys all the free agents, I hear there are good seats available in the Bronx.
If nothing else, at least those seats in the Bronx will come with a better than even shot at some WS tickets.
You can’t play it both ways. You can’t bash the Yankees for spending as they do. They follow the rules. They pay the financial price for how they play the game. And they show you just about every year that their way works better than anyone else’s. How many post-season appearances do they have over the last 20 years? How many do we have?
I hate them, too, but you cannot deny that when the time comes to add the pieces that they need to win they are going to do it. They do what they have to to get what they need. They don’t concern themselves with what some prospect could turn out to be. And they don’t worry about how much money it is going to cost them.
amen. i was starting to think that i was the only one who thought sacrificing our entire farm was nuts…to hell with johan.
Except the Yankees have finally figured out that’s not the way to win championships anymore. Which is why they, and the Red Sox, have the chips to make a trade like this, without destroying their farm systems. They’ve spent the last few years investing in their draft and farm system.
You would think the fact that we would have to give up 7 players to even come close to the value the Yankees and Red Sox can get with 3 or 4, not even including their number one players, would make Omar & the rest of the front office realize we desperately need to invest in the farm system.
It’s time to move on. Let our prospects become part of the club. Raise more prospects.
Upperdeck4life is right.
There is a reason I am not a Yukees fan.
“to hell with johan”, lets see if you say that if the mets were to get him and he wins 18 games and a cy young while mulvey, pelfrey and humber become the steve trachsel’s of the future.
Yeah, the Yanks have realized that. I guess they also realized that pitching wins championships. That’s why they gave A-Rod $274Mil.
Gina, I love you, but you’re starting to sound like Hankenstein.