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According to Jerry Crasnick earlier this week at ESPN.com, the Mets are still interested in acquiring A’s RHP Joe Blanton, but not at the expense of Carlos Gomez, Kevin Mulvey and Aaron Heilman.
In a recent post to Athletics Nation, Nico writes the following about Blanton…
“It’s difficult to say exactly how good Joe Blanton is….He has never missed a start, he rolls (literally) out of bed and gives you 200 IP, and the guy has won 42 games in 3 years…The consensus around the league is that Blanton’s best seasons are behind him, not ahead of him…Blanton’s weight has scared off teams that think it reflects either a lack of conditioning, or a poor work ethic, a risky tendency, etc., and they believe Blanton is not nearly as good a health risk in the future as he has been in the past…Yes, Bartolo Colon and David Wells made it work for years on an ample frame, but many others didn’t. If I saw Joe Blanton at the hardware store, it would be difficult to convince me that he was a top athlete who could make the strapping young All-American boy-wonder look foolish on a slow curve.”
…so, nico, you’re saying that he literally eats innings…sorry, i had to do it…it’s an obvious joke…
Last season for the A’s, Blanton was 14–10 with a 3.95 ERA through 34 starts, during which he allowed an average of just one walk per start.
He made at least 32 starts in each of the last three seasons.
He is eligible for salary arbitration this off-season, and the two after that, and is eligible for free agency after 2010.
…he’d be a nice fit, especially switching his game to the National League East…however, gomez, mulvey and heilman is a hefty price tag for a picther who, though he did well last season, had a 4.82 ERA in 2006…
In a recent chat for ESPN.com, Keith Law said the following when asked how the Mets should proceed, assuming Johan Santana and Erik Bedard are not an option…
“I think if they’re not getting either of those guys, they should skip the Joe Blantons of the world and roll the dice on Pelfrey and maybe Humber. You liked these guys enough to take them in the first round, and both did well in the minors. Pelfrey in particular still has #1-2 potential. Jerking these two guys up and down isn’t going to help the big club or enhance their trade value.”
…to me, if santana is not an option, and the Mets are confident heilman can be replaced, i would pull the trigger on that deal for blanton, because he, John Maine and Oliver Perez will make a solid, young foundation to build upon over the next few seasons, plus it means keeping pelfrey and humber…and, it is quite clear that the only way to acquire above-average starting pitching is to overpay in prospects…
…plus, though i’d be disappointed to not get santana, starting Pedro Martinez, blanton, maine, perez and, say, Bartolo Colon, would be a good-enough rotation – especially when compared to the rest of the division…
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I like that proposal for Blanton as long as the minor leaguer isn’t Mulvey or Guerra
How about your suggestion for Blanton, plus sign Freddie Garcia to a one year deal. Start Pelfrey until Garcia is ready. Someone always gets hurt and you have six starts. Actually seven with El Duque as the long man in the pen.
Pedro, Maine, Blanton, OP, Pelfrey/Garcia
If they sign Blanton, Pelfry can stay down in AAA. The Mets have already said El Duque will be a starter in 2008.
So the rotation would be:
Pedro
Maine
Blanton
Perez
Duque
Of course Duque will go down at some point and hopefully Garcia will be ready when he does. If not, then they can slide Pelfry in the 5 spot. I’d much rather have Pelfry start out in AAA during the colder months anyway.
I realize that I may be in the minority here, but I do NOT want Johan at the cost of our entire franchise PLUS a 6-7 year deal.
That is too much. If it was one or the other than fine. But both handcuffs the Mets – it creates a big hit on the payroll as well as depletes our source for inexpensive talent.
I just think that it would be foolish to pull the trigger on such a transaction, even if it nets Santana.
If Santana truly was that good, then he would have been traded already.
Please oh please, dont let the Mets be stupid enough to drain the farm and the max out the payroll on the same transaction.
right on. the thought of doing that makes me sick. mulvey and pelfrey are going to be good. our farm system is finally beginning to gain some respectability but this potential move would destroy it. i still believe pelfrey will be a 2 and mulvey will be at least a 4. omar should worry about losing opez and pedro and forget about santana. sign lieber, colon, garcia, who cares…just SAY NO YO JOHAN!!
This would be a classic example of “sell low, buy high”
Of course we want that tantalizing ace starter that we just can’t quite reach but…..why sell the farm when its value is near an all time low. By that I mean for example Pelfrey, by the numbers was awful last year. Anyone who knows baseball can see he still has huge upside potential. Right now though he’s being treated as a “throw-in”.
Consider where we’ll be if Pelfrey start off the year red hot, Gomez wrecks AAA ball, then looks good in his big league second look. It might not look that way this May but these guys have real undeniable upside that is hidden because they were rushed along. Gomez is still like 21, right?
I think you are in the silent majority. The minority is screaming to fire Omar if he doesn’t trade everyone for Johan. If he can manage a deal that keeps Pelfrey and Martinez, fine. But that isn’t happening so let’s move on and just keep monitoring from the outside.
hey snake i do agree with u about omar but i think the problem we are having with omar and the f/o is that they aren’t being honest with the fans last years off- season reminded me of the 00-01 off season when we wanted a-rod and all we got were appier and trashel (he was trash lol) the f/o was content too sit on their collective laurels with their thumbs up the butts while thinking hey we got this far why should we resign hampton, arod – i believe mussina was the other big fish that year – and all we got were the “well we were their second choice” excuse kinda sound familliar this offseason? it will if santana goes to either the yankmees or the sox
I concur. We’re not that bad in the division. Wait till the end of the year when Santana only costs us money. I don’t like the Yankee way of doing things…. Trade the kids now…..I want to win for years…keep the kids.
AMEN magic. Thank you so much for actually thinking logically, and not just saying Johan is the best, and I want him at any cost no matter what, It doesnt matter they can have our 10 best minor league players, and he can have the stupidest contract ever handed out in baseball history. It is outrageous how nobody thinks of that. Ferrari’s are a great car, but if somebody is selling me a leased ferrari with one year left on the lease, I am only going to want to pay for one year of the car. Not for the past performance of the car. Also, the cars value goes down because in one year you have to sign a new contract for 7 more years at outrageous dollars to keep this ferrari. Its crazy. When Johans demands come WAY down to around 5/110 or 4/90 instead of 7 or 8 years, then we may have something.
nrmax i also agree but something tells me we are going to have a kyle los-her as our new stud pitcher i am and atheist and if this would happed ill be the first to scream oh my g-d they didnt but i digress if no johan ill live with pelf humb or mulv we need to see them sometime if we dont trade em
which blanton are we getting
For the life of me, I just can’t believe there is even a debate about selling the farm for Johan Santana. 7 years…Who cares? How old will he be in 7 years? Like 38?
We have been carrying multiple starters older than tha for the past 2 years.
The money? Please…the Mets got money. Heck their getting at least 20% more money per season ticket holder in 2008.
The “value” of our prospects you say? Let me tell you…NO ONE over rates their prospects more than the Mets. Jeffries, Wilson, Pulsipher, Isringhausen, Ochoa, Escobar, Milledge, et al.
Just because Reyes and Wright panned out does not mean we need to hold on to the likes of Pelfrey, Humber, F. Martinez, Mulvey and Carlos Gomez.
Not getting Santana is just so stupid that I can’t even comprehend it. It’s just so ridiculous.
If I was Omar, I would offer the Twins all those guys I just mentioned AND the entire News Orleans Zephyrs organization right down to the hot dog vendors and grounds crew.
This has been making me crazy for the past month+.
There I said it…
#1 is a slam dunk but I doubt the Twins go for it
In my world, it’s a layup.
Is it a layup by just anyone or one of the Knicks?
A blown layup by Malik Rose, who is then delegated to the bench by Zeke, to the tune of 0 minutes in the next 45 games. The Knicks proceed to give up 131.7 pts per game.
in my world, it is a brick. Maybe even an airball.
If we cant get Johan, I say we keep everyone and let them compete. Seems like the best thing to do…
Indeed, but I’d like to add a Colon, Garcia, or Large Duque to the mix as well.
Colon and Garcia, yes. But I’d pass on Livan.
What evidence does the guy have to say that Blanton’s best days are behind him? He’s been getting better each year. His best days, if we are to guess, are ahead of him.
I was wondering that too ..
Finally someone with common sense.
His ERA+ in the past 3 years starting with 2005 has been 123, 92, and 106 and his WHIP has been 1.217, 1.539 and 1.217. Last year his ERA at home was 2.69 while 5.11 on the road. In the first half last year his ERA was 3.28 but his second half was 4.89. I’m sorry but I don’t see the positive progression you speak of.
so where’s the regression?
If you read the original post I am replying to it said the Blanton was getting better each year. That is simply not the case. His best year was in 2005 followed by a poor season and followed by a better season but not as good as 2005. He also slipped the second half of 2007 and pitched poorly on the road. BTW if there is no progression from year to year to year it doesn’t necessarily follow that there is regression from year to year to year. What we see from Blanton is inconsistency from year to year with his first full season being his best.
get johan or keep prospects. that its how i think the mets should play it
+2 AGREED
I agree. If no Santana then let’s patch it together something and see the upside of some these prospects.
I wish the Yankees in the early 1900’s would have judged Babe Ruth by his weight.
+3
I’ll take that argument for someone like Miggy, but its different for pitchers. Sure Babe was a pitcher, but when he was really young. Being overweight can really wear down a pitcher’s legs. David Wells is certainly not the norm when it comes to overweight pitchers.
The Johan deal (choice #1) is the most obvious choice in the world. The problem there is no way the Twinkies bit on that. Heck, it may have been offered and rejected already. And this idea of (basically) giving up the same thing for Blanton as for Santana is absurd. Forget the money. The Mets have plenty of money. They drew 3.8 million fans, have SNY and a new stadium. Please, if any team has money its them.
This is not at all basically the same thing. Gomez and Heilman + “pitcher” is not the same as the Johan deal which gives up every single young pitcher in the organization including our three top pitching prospects.
I may be in the minority, but I do the Blanton deal. He is locked up for a while and creates a nice core of young starters + Pedro.
While I don’t disagree with your thinking, whether a player is “locked up” or not shouldn’t be an issue.
We shouldn’t spend foolishly, but we should not be afraid of spending.
locked up does make a difference, because if they’re not, you have to negotiate, and possibly give more years than you want or risk losing the person you gave up the farm for. This is the part of the santana trade being missed by a lot of media personnel, you’ve got to give up your farm, plus sign the guy for an eternity .. the Twins don’t have as much leverage as we’re led to believe because of this
I don’t think it is a money issue. I would seriously hate to give up Pelfrey, Humber and Mulvey in a deal. It is obvious how rare and valuable good young pitching is. Giving up three of our top three pitching prospects in one deal PLUS Gomez and Heilman is too much for me.
That is the only reason I would do the Blanton deal. …but I am a little higher on Blanton than others.
You talk as if Mulvey, Pelfrey and Humber are top prospects. They are not. They are promising, but they project to be back of the rotation pitchers, at best. That is precisely why the Twins are demanding so many prospects — they need to be able to throw as much crap as they can at the right field baggie to see if anything sticks.
Santana, on the other hand, is that rarest of commodities — a young ace. We haven’t produced a pitcher anything like him since Gooden. I’d say the chances M, P or H turns into a Santana are slim to none. Heilman is who he is, and Gomez could be Reyes, or he could be Cedeno. If that deal really is available, the Mets HAVE to take it. There are still prospects in the system: F-Mart, Guerra, Kunz, Evans, Pena and more — our strength is at the lower levels, and we keep our top two prospects. We would replenish quickly.
If he didnt suck, yeah, but he sucks, so this whole thing of adding him to a nice young core is stupid. Lock up Perez. I would rather just let Heilman start. They arent even getting Heilman straight up from me for Blanton, let alone Gomez. I guess 12 percent of the voters are clinically insane or something. Fat version of Steve Trachsel, that is what Blanton is.
Don’t forget, this is the last year on Pedro’s contract. Plus, we lose Alou and Delgado. If we don’t go for it this year, it could be 2011 before we get back to where we are now. Then, we’re facing the end of Beltran’s contract.
I forgot, Perez can go free agent after this year, too
i agree.. how else could they justify not trading for Santana because of the 7 year contract. They could probably afford 3 Johan’s and they want to raise ticket prices
Get Blanton, it’s what it costs for a starter these days…. You still have Pelfrey, Humber, Guerra and Fmart …….
Pedro, Blanton, Maine, Perez and Colon is a very good rotation with Pelfrey moving to the pen and Humber making spot starts, El Duque as the long man……
not too shabby ..Id like to see that happen, but it wont.
Doesn’t Santana,Martinez,Maine,Perez and Colon sound better?
Maybe this is a smoke screen and Omar is ready trading low level prospect to the Twins for Joe Nathan. Then take Gomez and Heilman to the A’s for Blanton. Nice bullpen!!!!!!!
I voted 4 Colon..Im tired of the Johan spew ….points guy did u check out my new favorite site to go on and read while laughin?
hotchickswithduechebags.com
the comments on the pics r hilarious!!
leyritz story, sad:
http://www.mlbfleecefactor.com
mess with the bulls, you get the horns
Should this be filed under Pinstripe Pride or Yankee Mystique?
More like:
DON’T DRINK AND DRIVE
hey didn’t leyshlitz try a comeback with the mets in o2??
I am with you gomets. Earlier today I kind of got sick of the Santana stuff on here. I am all for going with Colon and then leaving Pelfrey, Humber, and Mulvey around to battle it out. One of them wil be as good as Blanton.
also here:
espn.go.com
I think there is no doubt the Mets must make some move to improve the rotation even if it is a Livan Hernandez or John Leiber, someone must eat some of the innings up. I like the rest of the rotation, but to be honest Pelfrey and Humber scare me. I live in Nashville and got a chance to watch Humber pitch a couple times here last year and I was very unimpressed. I also want when we will see the Mike Pelfrey we’ve all heard about. Last year I grew tired of getting that worried feeling everytime his spot in the rotation came up. I just want the team to do something without giving away the farm.
Problem is, I usually get that scared feeling when Ollie, Maine, El Duque, and Pelfrey pitch. This is why we need a dependable ace…at all costs.
We have three picks in the first round this year.
IF Lieber can be signed for 1 year or so, he’s a better option than Livan for 3 years or Lohse for 4 years.
Is Livan’s arm going to be attached to his body for another 3 years?
I’d prefer to give the 2 year contract to Freddy Garcia. He will miss at least half of this year but we get him for the second half this year and all of next and he may be worth then. Kind of like the Leiber deal from a few years back with the Yanks. That is good resource management as he will be cheaper and more certain to produce than say…Lohse or Livan.
I would consider a flier on Colon.
But in the end…..I like the idea of having the kids battle it out and play.
we need to have a few of our own prospects actually infiltrate the rotation and be given a legit shot.
Pelfrey has all of 13 ML starts in 2 years. Humber….1.
Lets see what they can be over a season or so.
Matt,
I’ll assume that you won’t respond, but maybe some others will.
When you write that you wouldn’t mind a core of OP, Maine, and Blanton over the next few years, you should mention that OP is a free agent after this year. Hopefully he re-signs, of course, but we can’t just assume he will be part of our future beyond 08.
J.R.,
Couldn’t agree more. The fact that Boras (and Natasha) is his agent, is a little scary. He is a good pitcher and all and on nights can be flat out dominant. He is young, he is a lefty. He has everything working for him.
One “x” factor about him is his eyes. It’s basically as distracting as Beltran’s mole.
Boras client or not…if he produces this season…he will be a MET. He pulled his career back together and he will not forget it. Plus pitching for the METS in NY is like nothing else. This is not pittsburgh.
He will sign with us.
I can also see us resigning Pedro to a 2 yr $36M deal
Look, I know we all want an Ace AND I’ve heard of players
claiming “to give 110%” BUT C’MON!!, 131%???
Who’s keepin’ score?? Yogi Berra??
No way can you give up a sought after and talented OFer in Gomez, one of the better setup men in the game in Heilman, and a solid young prospect in Mulvey for just Joe Blanton.
I understand there’s not much out there. And I’m certainly not attached to prospects. But Blanton is simply not worth it at all. His numbers are good, not great. And he has not gotten better each year. In 2006 he put up an ERA of 4.82 and a WHIP of 1.53.
And I wouldn’t expect a major improvement in his stats going from Oakland to Shea. He plays in a weak division already, in a very pitcher friendly park. Outside of Tim Hudson, almost every Beane era pitcher to leave Oakland has faltered elsewhere (all in the NL by the way).
I’d take Blanton for 1 good prospect and a low level minor leaguer. Anything more than that would be a mistake. And Billy Beane of course will want near Santana value for the guy. Enough already with the Oakland fascination.
yawn
I second that
I think we should scrap all these trade possibilities and give Henry Rowengartner surgery to Humber and Pelfrey, and the rest of our pitching prospects. We’ll be unbeatable…..”go foul, go foul, go foul, go foul.”
When you write that you wouldn’t mind a core of OP, Maine, and Blanton over the next few years, you should mention that OP is a free agent after this year. Hopefully he re-signs, of course, but we can’t just assume he will be part of our future beyond 08.
I want Santana on the Mets but not at the cost of the farm and $$$. I think its better to sign a FA to fill Glavine’s spot like a Livan/Colon/Garcia to eat up the innings lost. I propose this idea because I dont think Pedro will give you 200ip because he just got back from rehab, I think Pedro will give you about 150-160 so you need someone to spot start for him once in a while and let our kids develop or fight for a spot on the roster. I think we need our kids cause u never know with injuries n need backups to fill in because 2007 was baffled with injuries. I really think Pelfrey will be very good and atleast better a Blanton type or better because I saw the game he had against Atlanta and he was nasty, I think he just needs more time n confidence and in 2008 he would be more mature to handle the pressures of MLB. I am also high on Humber even though he had TJ surgery, I saw the games he pitched when with the Mets and I was impressed with 12-6 curve that was just nasty, I wasn’t paying attention to his ER and the other crap cause it was only his 1st yr back from TJ, I was focusing on his stuff more than anything and its still there guys just need more conditioning and he has that mental part of the game n confident in the way he handles it. I wont be surprise that in 2008 that he breaksout either in Spring Training or another year in AAA.
Some late holiday humor.
What kind of food do you get when you cross Frosty the Snowman with a Polar Bear?
I know someone mentioned offering cash to the twins in another post and apparently that’s not kosher with the league, but what about draft picks? How exactly are they valued in trades? I know we have 3 first rounders, could we substitute one of them in a trade for Santana or Blanton.
Good idea Gina, but can’t trade draft picks. Oh well.
By the way, any guesses at my joke above?
do tell.
brrrgrrr
Awful. Just awful.
To Gina’s point above, if you could trade draft picks, you guys think Isiah would be the Mets GM? He is good at that.
Only if the Mets had a top3 pick.
Which is safe to assume, if he was the GM, would be every year. No?
Santana and Colon….yahh
Santana and Colon….yahh
Mustard and ketchup……yahh
Mustard and ketchup……yahh
McNuggets, McNuggets…..yahh
Ketchup and Maaayoooo, Ketchup and Mayyoooo.
I’m into nuggets y’all, I’m into nuggets y’all.
I can’t believe that I said Mustard and Ketchup.
Thanks for not duping on my dumb ass.
Ketchup and Maaayoooo.
That was a great Ad, I loved it…………Yet I forgot it…..Damn.
dip-it-in-that-barbecue-sauce
dip-it-in-that-barbecue-sauce
Ah, how I miss having a reason to watch SNY every night.
Amazing. Almost as good as a WaWa cheesesteak commercial I heard once. Something about cheesesteaks stopping the pain. But the chorus at the end was amazing:
“got to have a wawa, got to have a wawa, 2 point nine nine dolla….”
Simply amazing lyricism. Only to be outdone by LMillz and “Bend Ya Kneez”
Too funny.
We’ve gotta laugh……..breaks the stress…..from waiting on Omar and the Twins.
Twinkies and Omar, yahhh
i got mail i got mail i got mail i got mail i got mail yayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy sorry i had a crank yankers moment
Speakin’ of jokes; a priest, a rabbi and Willie Randolf walk into a bar.
Willie has a parrot glued to his head.
The bartender says; “Hey, why don’t you get rid of that stupid thing?”
The parrot says, “Because he gets good seats at Shea.”
Da, da, dat, dee da dat!
Priest and a Rabbi sitting on a park bench. A ten year old boy walks by. Priest says “Let’s screw him.” The Rabbi says “Out of what?”
damn, 2 for 1.
love that joke slob
its funny cuz it’s true d’oh
Gomez, Pelfrey, Humber, Perez for Santana.
then go out and sign a 5th starter for one year.
Why would the Twins want Perez, who is in his last year before becoming a free agent?
is that a joke? what’s the answer?
I do that deal but would rather not give up Perez if we could. Heilman instead being that he has one year left and no way he signs with us. And I believe the fifth starter we should sign should be Colon. He is 2 years away from winning a Cy Young! Petterson can fix him. LOL. Seriously though the talent is there and maybe at Shea he will find it again. Imagine a rotation like the following:
Santana
Pedro
Maine
Perez
Colon
My God that would be a sick rotation!
El Duque in the pen, or as a spot starter if and when Pedro or someone goes on the DL. We can even deal him to replace prospects we lose in the trade.
I would also try to have the Twins include Nathan in the deal if we could to replace Heilman. Maybe add a prospect or two to the Santana offer. How about Gomez, F-Mart, Pelfrey, Humber, Mulvey, Joe Smith (it is rumored they like him), and Heilman for Santana and Nathan? We then restock our farm with the 3 picks we have coming, through international scouting/signings, and maybe trade some of our aging last year of deal guys like Delgado at the deadline for prospects or even El Duque for teams needing a starter in July for the stretch. Thoughts?
i wouldn’t mind that trade but how about substituting ryan church for f-mart or gomez and adding guerra. i completely agree about trading delgado and hernandez but who will be our first baseman. there has to be a guy like delmon young out there perhaps trade delgado and hernandez for someone like that. i would love to have colon as our 5th starter.
Absolutly. If the Twins would take Church instead of Gomez or F-Mart then let them. I’d rather keep one of them than Church. Actually they might want that because they prefer major league ready talent. However who would play RF for us? We could sign someone I suppose. I also agree that if we could send Delgado and El Duque away for a younger player(s) I am all for it especially if we make a Santana deal. Delmon Young would be nice but I dont think the Rays would take those contracts but maybe because they are final year deals and if we pay a portion it would help.
Scratch that, bsmitts is now the stupidest. Congratulations to you as well sir. Trade away our guys at the deadline even though we will be competing for the playoffs. So you want to trade all our aging players, and all our prospects. Good plan dude. Thats like a stupid mix between going for it all and rebuilding. And to think these are the same people who bash Omar.
Stupid? How is it stupid to trade an aging and declining Delgado and an old injury ridden pitcher in El Duque in order to get younger talent to replace what we trade away for Santana? This way we get the ace we need and replenish our farm by ridding ourselves of players bringing us down. Delgado is done, and if we get Santana and Colon then why do we need El Duque? I gues you are another one of those Omar apologists who always sees the team through orange colored glasses. Not me. I see this team and it improvements must be made or we are not going anywhere. You can believe the spin Omar is giving on our current team as being talented enough to compete but I wont. If he doesnt improve this staff he didnt do his job. Stupid? Look in the mirror my friend.
Out of everything that I have ever heard on any blog I visit, this is the worst and most stupid idea I have heard yet. Congratulations sir.
Sounds like your love affair with Omar and Mets management has you being spoon fed the crap they are talking about how good this team is as currently constituted. If it stays the same and this is the team we go with I will root and root hard but expect another poor finish and for that I will congratulate you Sir, for it is what you sem to be content with.
Why would Freddie Coupons offer cash? I just don’t see it, even if it were $20.
I think the only thing worse than the frequent bs Santana posts are the trade proposals that people keep reiterating. “Gomez, Pelfrey, Humber, Heilman”. Gee, really? Nobody else has thought of that or posted it. And seriously, if that’s all it was going to take do you think Omar wouldn’t have pulled the trigger on it?
The problem is that to even have a shot (without trading Reyes) it seems that it is going to take 5 players, including Gomez, F-Mart and Mulvey. Who knows, maybe they want John Maine?
I just don’t understand why people keep proposing the same old trade ideas as if they are new, and as if the Twins would accept them.
Look isn’t part of being a Mets fan enjoying it when the kids on the farm grow up and play with the big kids int he majors? I’d like Johann on my team too, but isn’t one Kazmir trade every ten years enough?
I thought that the only good to come out of the Kazmir trade was that Omar became the GM. If he trades the entire farm for Johann and it doesn’t work then what have we got?
Sure we can roll the dice with Johann but we can roll ‘em too with letting the kids duke it out for starting jobs.
How many days till pitchers and catchers?
To be fair, Santana isn’t Victor Zambrano and the Mets don’t have anyone on their farm right now quite as valuable as Kazmir was even then.
“If the Mets think Heilman can be replaced”
That’s all well and good if he can, but how do you propose the Mets do so. Heilman is one of the best setup relievers in the NL. There is no one on the FA market who can even come close to replacing his combination of durability and dependability. I can’t think of anyone who would be available via trade. If they can replace him, I consider pulling the trigger on that trade too, but I just don’t think they can.
I would not trade all the prospects in our system for one man (Santana) no matter how good he is. What happens when someone on the big league roster gets hurt or next year when pedro is gone and maybe op also? Where do you get those guys you would need during the season or when it is over and you have to replace someone? As much as a onetime fix sounds good you have to think about the future. As much as I dislike the the yanks, they are taking the right direction and building their farm system thru the draft, paying over the suggested rate that mlb recommends, and then bringing them along with vets to maintain and improve the team. I believe that pelfrey, mulvey and humber if given the opportunity that they could join the Mets rotation this year or next and allow guerra to mature and improve. Call me crazy but no pitcher, unless he was 26 and with great stats,l deseves a long term contract, i.e. k. brown, m. hampton, j. schmidt, because they are the ones that usually breakdown quicker than a pos. player. Keep the young guys and let them surprise us while signing colon and maybe garcia as backup. Won’t cost us prospects and/or ridiculous contract.
Call me crazy, but when is the last time the Mets have had a good starting pitching prospect ACTUALLY come to fruition while being ON THE METS? Doc Gooden? Please get whatever you can for Pelfrey, Mulvey, Humber or whoever else is wandering around on the farms. I have seen enough of Pelfrey, Mulvey and Humber are going to stink like every other scout and GM apparently thinks, and we are going to all just be dissapointed when they just get older and continue to lose trade value. How anyone in their right mind can keep crap prospects around with the possibility of getting a proven commodity is beyond insane. There is a reason no one is taking the Mets trades, our prospects stink, and our track record of pitchers is marquee in that regard. Of course we did have Kazmir, but going by the track record of this franchise’s “home grown arms,” if he came up on the Mets, he’d probably stink.
And F Heilman already with his trademark longballs. Trade him for ANYTHING.
um, Heilman’s given up 19 HR over the last three seasons spanning 283 innings. That’s a 0.60 HR/9 over that span….so I’m not really sure where your coming from (other than Yadi in the 2006 postseason, which was definitely a killer, but its hardly the norm for Heilman).
with an era right around 4.
For his career sure, its 4.04, but that includes his 5.00+ ERAs in his first two seasons when he was starting. Over the last three seasons, again 283 innings, he’s given up 102 ER, for a 3.24 ERA. That’s in 208 appearances, only 7 of which were starts.
Also, when Heilman gave up the HR to Yadi in the 2006 postseason, if was the first HR he’d given up since the all-star break. It was definitely the worst possible timing, but still, you have to give the guy some credit.
thats exactly what i was thinking chuckwagon. What if we wait on Pelfrey,Humber for another year and they stink up the joint again??? We shouldve traded them last year for a starter when they had even more value. Also, Heilman is a mediocre reliever…his stats might look good but pressure situations cause him to melt down and blow games.
So you’d rather have Scott Schoenweiss and Matt Wise pitching those pressure situations instead? No thanks, Heilman may not be a A+ reliever, but he’s much better than the norm. Most importantly, he’s been very consistent over three seasons. Try to find three non-closer relievers who have had a 3.24 ERA or better while pitching 85+ innings over the last three seasons. Not an easy task.
NONE OF THE ABOVE….
where’s Bedard/Matt Caine/Tim Lincecum?????????????
those are the answers!!!!!!!
Milledge is gone, that’s who would’ve made Frisco pull the trigger.
Cain and Lincecum were never going to be Mets. The only players Sabean even considered for one of those two was Alex Rios. The Mets would have to offer Reyes to even have a shot.
bring back doug sisk or rich (hairball harry ) rodriguez they could blow it like the best of them lol
Omar is doing the best with what he has. He will not trade the farm for the huge contract that Santana will command. He’d rather wait out the year until he’s a free agent. As long as Johan doesn’t end up on the Phils/Braves/Marlins/Nationals it’s not that big of a deal. I believe that if Pelfrey is given a spot in the rotation from Game 1, he’ll be able to get his confidence up, that seems to be his sore spot. But only getting spot starts in the majors and riding the plane back and forth between Shea and Triple-A doesn’t help. He needs to get some real game innings under his belt. April is a good time because there is less pressure. Too bad Omar gave up on Bannistar.
Pelfrey was already given a spot in the rotation out of spring training from Game 1. He blew his opportunity. You can’t say that he only got spot starts. That’s not at all what happened. He sucked, they sent him down.
There are many Cy Young-HOF type pitchers who sucked when they first came up to the majors.
Do you know what Santana did for his first 100 innings or so? Hint: It was much worse than Pelfrey.
The point being you have to give young pitchers time to develop on the major league level. Not all will make it, but many will turn out to be solid starters and, in a few cases, Cy Young caliber pitchers.
The Mets have had a poor record of facilitating that development for young pitchers. Sometimes there’s a good excuse, but often the excuses are poor, such as when they end up using crappy starters like Lawrence and Park.
Having said that I would not hesitate to make the trade for Santana as long as it weren’t for more than 5 prospects/players.
Absolutely the gospel V!!!!
Mets management has been just god awful at developing the talent they have and making them viable a the ML level. Pelfrey and Humber have the pedigree and a certain level of success in the minors that warrants a long look and some patience. Pelfrey so far has failed in his acclimation to the bigs but he appeared to have turned a corner and was 3-1 in his last 5 starts of the year. Humber has not had any chances to speak of short of the 1 start at the conclusion of last year.
If you can land a santana or Bedard in a deal that allows us to keep some ready talent close by to protect for injury…you do it. But otherwise…it makes more sense to develop Pelfrey and Humber at the ML level and appreciate that it will be very uneven to start but the long term benefit may be they become Maine, Perez, Blanton, Haren types if we are lucky.
I think both will be better long term than Kyle Lohse or Jason Jennings are right now
Let them play! Let them play! Let them play!
/obscure?
let them play somewhere else. oh wait, nobody else wants them because they are garbage!!!!!!
I think you have to make the deal for Santana. Everyone has to remember that Pedro, Oliver Perez and El Duque are free agents after this year. What happens if Scott Boris pushes Oliver Perez to take the biggest contract (which is what he is known for) and that contract is not from the Mets. The Mets will be left with a starting rotation of John Maine. At least if we had Santana and Maine, we would hav our ace and a solid 2 or 3 starter.
In 2009, there are a lot of free agent pitchers available.
I would trade Kevin Mulvey while his stock is hot!! Look at what happened to Millege. We could have traded for Manny Ramerez at one point. Since we waited we got stuch with Church and Schnieder. Enough said
thats my biggest fear perez will go 17-5 era at 3.05 boras will ask for 8 years at 15 mill a year i can just see omars head explode and good old freddie wilpons face melting like raiders of the lost arc
You negotiate with him during the season. I have not heard anything that says he would not do a deal in season. Plus he should be loyal to us as we have resurrected his career.
I see 4 years and $60M for him and that is worth it. i would also watch pedro til the all star break and then do a 2yr $38M contract with him if he appears to still be able to be healthy and to get the results we expect of him
gowrightgo
are we forgetting his agent is boras and our owner is wilpon btw when am i geting my i reupped my sat ticket plan and all i got was this lousy t-shirt shirt??
Boras is a beast to deal with no doubt but we can not lose OP and we can not run the risk that he bolts for more $$ when he becomes free. If Carlos Zambrano and Jake Peavy and Oswalt can all get good but not total back breaking deals…we have to hope our lesser but still good pitcher gets the same treatment afforded to us
That proposed Milledge for Ramirez deal probably had more to do with the fact that the Red Sox were down on Ramirez, tired of his antics and trade requests, and less to do with their opinion of Milledge. The Mets were only involved in those discussions because the were one of maybe 3 teams that could have absorbed Ramirez’s salary. It wasn’t as though the Sox thought so highly of Milledge that they were willing to trade the centerpiece of their team. It was more like “We’re sick of this guy’s act so let’s trade him to the Mets for whatever their best outfield prospect is.”
Can I write the next article? How about “Sources say Yankees still in the mix for Santana,” “Mets show interest in Blanton who may or may not be on the trading block,” or “Omar says in interview he’s happy with his current starting staff.” I feel like we’re repeatedly reading someone’s rolodex.
its groundhog day everyday in metsblog land
“World Leaders to Meet at UN Monday to Discuss Santana Situation”
good one, made me spit up my drink!
That would be great Omar overpaying for a SP who had similar #’s to Bannister last year. just think he traded Bannister for ????? nothing. let’s hope Omar gets his head together and stops making stupid deals for potential relievers.
Bannister is not a special pitcher. Just a solid first year from him so far. We definitely would look better with him but I can not fault Omar yet. Burgos does throw 100MPH and he got hurt within 6 weeks of starting the season. Jury is still out on him. If he gets healthy and becomes the closer to take over for Wagner in a 2 years….you will be loving the deal (this assumes he is worthy of closing games of course)
Well, to be fair, Brian Bannister isnt good. He will get demolished this year. In his last few starts of the season, he started to get really destroyed. Blanton is one of those guys who always out pitches how good he really is, or atleast it seems that way. He isnt impressive at all to watch. I agree with Law. Either start Heilman, and stick Pelfrey in the pen to develop for one more year, let Pelfrey and the other kids fight it out. Next year we try to make a run at CC/Santana if they hit the open market. Texeira should be availbale also. Save our money, but especially our prospects. As much as I would really hate giving Johan 7 years, it would be easier if you werent also destroying the future of your organization to do so.
How can you say Bannister is not any good??? He pitched well enough to win 12 games for the lowly Royals. Getting hit towards the end of the year is somewhat normal for rookie pitchers when they get to new innings levels. So far he has shown better than Pelfrey or Humber and could have helped last season and been trade bait this off season if the club didn’t think he would be good long term. Instead we got nothing for him. And if you haven’t noticed the Mets will never make Heilman a SP.
Time will tell if Bannister and Burgos end up any good. To excoriate Omar for that deal smacks of revisionist history. After all, there seemed to be a glut of decent starters last spring, which made Bannister expendable at the time.
If Burgos comes off surgery and becomes the 2009 closer, you will end up loving this trade. Point being it’s too early to guage the trade.
Bingo! I just commented the exact same detail above. Missed your post here. But you are absolutely spot on. Burgos could solve a major future problem very economically and will be able to pitch 60 – 70 times a year not just 34 starts
Wow. Its hard to believe that some of you guys would rather keep the farm then get Santana. The “IDEA” of Pelfrey, Humber, Gomez, Mulvey, and Heilman emerging out of the darkness and into the light during the 2008 season or beyond is very enticing but, THE METS NEED TO WIN NOW. Omar and Willie only have two years left on their contracts. It’s a dire situation for them. As a result, the team is also in a critical point.
Yes, the Mets farm is not very strong. But the fact that it still has players that other teams are interested in still gives us a chance.
If you want a better farm system, improve yoru scouting domestically, not just internationally. If Omar just drafts STARTING PITCHERS instead of relievers the Mets might just get somewhere.
Johan Santana in orange and blue. Think about it for a while.
The mets wouldn’t be giving up any great prospects such as fernando martinez, who happens to be their only top prospects.
Lets face it, the mets pitching prospects are not that good. Thats why you gotta make the trade. However I would be weary of trading heilman because hes our only reliable reliever besides wagner
Carlos Gomez is thought of as amongst the top 50 or so in the game last I looked. His limited action in 2007 at the ML level should not dissuade believers that he can and will emerge as a star. He is super fast….big (will grow into his frame)…terrific defensively already and should develop his power and plate discipline in time. Gomez has the look of an allstar
yeah gomez looked good in spurts he just has to stop the first pitch swinging and constantly bunting for basehits
I’d love to get Santana, but he is only one guy. You need more than that to win 90-100 games. Everybody posts their dream rotation, but how about this nightmare?
Injured Pedro
Injured Old Duque
Santana
Perez
Maine
Converted reliever Willie Collazzo
Jeff Fassero
No Pelfrey, no Humber, no Mulvey. Pretty troubling.
we could always resign mr. lima time or i hear that dave dravecky is available
hey guys. remember when john maine hit that homerun. that was pretty rad
shut up
well, alright.
that shut up was uncalled for
so you think we have a better shot of winning with these C prospects then with santana
That’s a loaded question. Given those two options, obviously Santana is better. No question.
But too many posters don’t look at the total team, they just focus on one superstar and figure that’s the ticket to the WS. I’m just asking that people to think more broadly.
kiner i do gree with the report i think it was that guy from s.i that said the mets were only still in it for the p.r aspect – it sounds like typical mets u agree?
I don’t know what Pelfrey you guys were watching last year, but he stinks. Sure he’s got a great sinking fastball, but he telegraphs his offspeed pitches which are only bush league quality anyway. Unless he drastically improves those pitches, this guy is the second coming of Kane Davis.
The Mets need to acquire not one but two starters and put Duque in the pen.
I hear Syd Finch may be available. His fastball still reaches 115 mph.
glider i heard that sid went back to tibet to learn animal husbandry – baaaahhhhhh
LMAO.
Reminds me of a joke where this Jewish lady from Brooklyn demands to go to Nepal and see the High Priest. After she arrives and to everyone’s amazement the High Priest grants her an audience when the sun is directly overhead and she can only speak three words. On the appointed day when the sun is directly overhead a curtain rises to reveal the High Priest in prayer. He stares at the women and appears to look right through her to her soul. A voice says remember only three words. She looks at the High Priest and says “Sheldon come home!”
I’d like to know something. Why is it that the Mets don’t give Aaron Heilman a ahot at the rotation? The stated reason is that he is “only” a two pitch pitcher (fastball, change-up).
Well, guess who is also “only” a two-pitch pitcher?
JOHAN SANTANA.
I rest my case.
glider
its because when arron first came up he wasn’t really dominant as a starter – more like a barry jones type so they put him in the pen – if i rememer right they didn’t think he had great stammina to be a starter and because vern ruhle was a moron r.i.p and the jacket is too busy watchin internet porn (j/k rick)
damn i havent seen ffm on the post today guess he’s in church halleluyah sometimes i think that he is matt’s evil alter ego juu know kinda like bizzaro cerrone (backwards met logo on his cap and all)
You know, when Heilman first came up as a starter that was pre-Peterson lowering of the elbow and arm-slot. That’s why he sucked then.
After Dr. Pete worked him magic, Heilman was fixed in 10 minutes.
He’s never been given a chance to start with the new mechanics except that one spring training when he and Bannister competed for the 5th spot. Heilman actually pitched better than Bannister that spring but Willie and Omar remained (and continue to remain) stubborn about the whole thing.
I still think, given what’s out there, that that is our best option. We still have Duaner for the 8th.
Go look up his stats as a starter. Then you will understand. I posted them early in the week, but apparently nobody cares about performance, just what their little fantasy is. Opponent OBP against Heilman as a starter was over .500! BAA was.349. 2 QS in 25 starts. It was horrible. They were selling eye bleach in the upper deck when he was starting.
(See above comment from The Glider for response to this ridiculous point.)
btw guys we are killing fire joe morgan vote early and vote often
furthermore i decree there should be a rustys ribs in citifield – mmmmm ribs
I’m watching Game 4 of the 1969 World Series on ESPN Classics. Lindsey Nelson just said that in Tom Seaver’s last 8 starts of the regular season he pitched 8 complete games during which he allowed only 8 earned runs!
: – 0 WOW!
watch who pitches the 10th lad….
real men, back in the day….
Barry Zito, indeed!
And Swoboda makes the catch! Swoboda makes the catch!
Unbelievable!
And Gil Hodges comes out to the in the 9th inning with two outs and Brooks Robinson coming up and he left Seaver in the game.
This is indeed when real men played this game my friends. Right on Number41.
glider and #41 at this rate ill take terry leach and bruce bereynni seaver was a class act i just wonder what happened to our scouting we have always been known for our pitching from seaver to kooz doc matlack etc these days its wilson pulsipher elvis’s nephew and pelfrey btw is the plural of elvis elvi??
. . . and you watch these guys with their scrawny physiques . . . what’s happened to this game?
Getting back to the 2008 Mets, I would still give Heilman a shot in the starting rotation over making the Blanton trade.
If Heilman is “expendable” as the set-up man, then let’s give the man a shot rather than over pay for Blanton. I”d rather see Pelfrey (a one-pitch pitcher) in the pen rather than the starting rotation.
problem is we do not know how healthy or reliable duaner is last i heard he was kinda in the mel rojas / rusty staub weight stratusphere plus i don’t know if pedro felizianos head is still in the clouds or in the game
glider & #41 ive been a met fan since birth (im 35) and ive seen seaver as a small child in 74,75& 76 – just not old enough to remember (just like id like to forget the end of 07 lol) but i saw him in 83 in his first game back as a met against the padres i believe – he still was great
At least you appreciate those day. I was lucky enough to grow up at this time. I was 11 in ‘69.
I was at that game. I don’t even remember who won or lost. It was a magical day for a young Mets fan. In the days where they rode the cart from the bullpen, Seaver walked down the right field line and the fans went nuts. Best opening day at Shea EVER.
Now up at bat . . . Art Shamsky!!!!!!
Man, I miss these days.
you know what glider
yeah it kinda sucks when travares is you ss jorgenson is you 1b bob bailor is your 2b and your outfield power hitter is maz and claudell washington and neil allen is in relief – but u know what i cherrish those days because even though My Entire Team Sucked ( pun inteneded) i never backed down and im a better person today and not some yankmee front runner fan
Yes, those were those days to stomach . . . unfortunately, I remember them all too well. Thank god ESPN Classics doesn’t show those games.
. . . “tough days to stomach” . . .
The days of Nino Espinosa.
Craig Swan…
Craig Swan was actually promising until he destroyed his rotator cuff. Those ‘77-’83 pitching staffs were something else.
And don’t forget that those dark days started with JOE TORRE as manager.
My CitiPark Fan Walk brick reads;
“I was at Game 4 of the 69 World Series *** *** ”
Life was good in the Summer of ‘69 and there was greater man than The Franchise.
Dancin’ in the isles.
Dancin’ on the field.
“We’re #1″.
You should have signed it
“I’m a Loser”
What’s with the guy doing the intro to the NFL’s telecast tonight. He said ‘ wif ‘, instead of ‘ with ‘ 5 times in a 60 second span.
That is utterly disgraceful, unacceptible, stupid and embarrasing.
BTW – Brant Gumbel makes John Sterling sound like Red Barber.
For us older guys, we remember that the the Series were still played during the day time. I can’t remember which game it was, but I was 12 years old and brought one of those transistor radios to class. It had a little ear piece with the cord. I had the radio in my back pocket and the cord inside my shirt listening to the game. Well, my teacher caught me, sent me to the principal’s office, who in turn, called my old man at work to come get me. I thought a good butt whipping was coming, especially after the principal lectured my dad. When we got in the car, my dad pulled the dad routine with “You know better than that.” Then he started to laugh and thanked me. They couldn’t get radio reception inside the building where he worked, and by him coming to get me, he got to listen to the game in the car. We went home and finished the game on TV and had one of the best father-son bonding days ever.
That is a great story.
I, however, never got caught. : P I snuck the transistor radio in my desk and would check in every few moments when the teacher was having the class do work. I think your mistake was the earpiece. If you would have made believe you were looking for something in your desk and then listen at low volume, who may not have got caught . . . but then you wouldn’t have had that wonderful moment with your dad.
simply Amazin’
What’s with the guy doing the intro to the NFL’s telecast tonight. He said ‘ wif ‘, instead of ‘ with ‘ 5 times in a 60 second span.
That is utterly disgraceful, unacceptible, stupid and embarrasing.
BTW – Brant Gumbel makes John Sterling sound like Red Barber.
hey, maybe cuz you’re a loser!
try an NFL blog
maybe your insecure nit ptckin’ will be enjoyed there
bye
Whoa, it’s Friday bud. Relax, have a beer later.
I wouldn’t say Heilman is already a better starting pitcher than Blanton to begin with, but given that trade proposal as the other option, I would much rather give big A his long desired chance in the rotation and hold on to the other chips.
Heilman has what…2 pitches? Nice reliever. No starter dude.
thanks for the link….that is awesome!
gomets2008,
nice.
Do not thank me , I am just a messanger from God, sent to give regular Joes like us a reason to laugh harder every day now….has to be one of the gr8est sites ever!!
I’m being held down by “the man” and don’t have access to the site. There must be some profane language on there.
Oh well, guess I’ll just have to bust out the trusty iPhone. Ahhhh, life is good.
Ah, to use the words of Clyde Frazier:
GoMets is discratin’ and relaxin. He better get back to work or else he’ll be unemployed and underjoyed.
Im a state employee..we do not get fired…believe it! We do what we want whenever we want….ahhhhh!!
+10
for clyde the glide
gomets2008,
Is that why that highway near my home has never been finished? Damn you!!!
But kudos to you for landing that job.
I think we should get a Metsblog Gala together. Would be fun to meet the people behind the posts. Do they do anything like that? I would be nervous.
Im 1st in line to meet Tina, she looks hot on her myspace….lol….u guys can see me anytime on myspace…but u might not like what u see….Im just a writer who loves the Mets , and the ladies…. anybody who has myspace let me know? My friends list flows with gorgeous beauties who love to please…I sh*t you not.
Sounds good my man. I was thinking more along the lines of a happy hour though. Not a MySpace man myself.