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In a column for the Bergen Record, Bob Klapisch breaks down who is Hot and who is Not in baseball as we head in to 2008.
Regarding the Mets, Klapisch lists Omar Minaya under the Not category, while writing…
“Unless the Mets can somehow pry Johan Santana away
from the Twins, they’ll go into ‘08 without significantly improving the team that blew a seven-game lead with 17 to go. Minaya loves the art of the deal, but he’s yet to work any magic this winter.”
…if you recall, i wrote the following in this post from early October, which critiqued minaya’s performance during the previous year…
…i am a fan of Omar Minaya, mostly because he had brought a new sense of local and national credibility to this team, and a level of buzz and excitement that i had not seen as a fan since the 80s…that being said, his poor decisions over the last year ultimately helped to contribute to the team’s biggest embarrassment since its first season in the league, and they cannot be ignored…
…i sense organization’s owners feel the same way…minaya’s contract expires at the end of 2009, as does Willie Randolph’s…so, the duo has two full seasons to further advance what they started in 2005…last season was a step backward, following one giant step forward, making next season quite significant in the future direction of this team, let alone their respective careers…
…in other words, as klapisch writes, and as people close to minaya have told me, for his sake, Ryan Church, Brian Schneider and the whole team better have a good year next season…
Do we really expect a couple of 30 year olds (Church and Schneider) to do anything speical next year?
Esp since they are both from the Nats.. playing the exact same teams the Mets do.. what you see is what you get kids
We have slightly improved our defense, weakened the offense, and done nothing for the pen and rotation so far..
And why does Omar get credit for 2005? Wright and Reyes are still the two biggest reasons for the Mets “turn around”.. both were gotten from Steve Phillips regime…
The Wilpons outbid for Pedro and Beltran which is why they’re here…
Omar continues to hang his hat on John Maine and Ollie (who he tried to trade the same day he got him)
I don’t think we would have gotten Pedro or Beltran if Minaya wasn’t here.
And as you stated, his best move was getting Julio and Maine for Benson and then turning Julio into Orlando Hernandez. But still, that was 2 years ago…
And I will always believe that Julio is all he wanted.. since he went after Burgos the following year.. who is the exact same pitcher.
I guess I am pretty anti omar these days… the Milledge trade the latest in a line of embarassing moves.
Don’t forget the cycle. Coupon decided to spend after years of sucking.
So, we got Beltran b/c of the money (hello, Skanks at discount?) and Pedro b/c of the 4th year. Omar didn’t pull off anything special.
Give him credit for Maine and OP, since we never know how they got here, but they eventually did. But don’t give him credit for Beltran & Pedro.
I’m not giving him any credit, I’m just saying that I don’t think those 2 would have signed the SAME contracts with the Mets if Jim Duquette was the one offering them.
They would have. Beltran took the money, surprise surprise, and Pedro took the 4th year. The only one who spurned the Mets b/c of character issues was Delgado, who looked at the Mets negatively.
how have we weakened the offense?
LoDuca was in serious decline from hsi years of steroid use. Schendier / Castro in a 60/40 split should perform well for a catching spot..
And Church vs Shawn Greene? you cant count on milledge for big time numbers this year.. he is a crap shoot.. Church put up 40 plus doubles and is a better player than we rolled out in RF last year.
I liked the Duaner Sanchez trade for Jae Seo – Seo was traded at his peak.
All the bullpen pick-ups in 2006 were very good (Bradford, Oliver, Feliciano, 6 weeks of Mota).
El Duque is tremendously underrated – his #s per 9 innings for us last year were great (he just can’t stay on the field).
Moving Heilman to the pen worked out very well (not sure if that’s an Omar or Willie move). 3 great years there.
Omar has his winners and losers like any other GM.
TWO YEARS AGO: that is the last significant signing. It was great back when he got Pedro. It showed other player, Beltran/Delgado/Glavine/LoDuca, that the Mets meant business. Since then, nothing or any great importance. Players WANT to play for the Yankees. Three years ago, Omar started to lay the foundation for being a desirable destination for players, but has lost ground since. He needs to land a big fish NOW, or this team will loss it’s status amoung the best in the NL. They need to go to the World Series, hopefully win, but a trip would justify the Omar/Willie era…..
He’s been working on his smile though, after answering questions. He’s got it down pat. You got to give him that.
+1
and that belly
Duaner
+2
exactly
Still can’t believe how fat he is. He isn’t like Joba Chamberlain fat though. He is old man fat. You know, the kind with really skinny arms and face and just a big ol pot belly?
Why do many make an issue of these guys coming from the Nats as a negative thing? Yea, I know they had a horrible offense, but Church had a really good year and both of these guys offensive numbers will most likely improve coming to the Mets lineup.
.272. 15 70 and .349 OBP is a really good year?
Toss in .229 against lefties.. and you are looking at platoon OF my friend.
actually, in general, most people do worse in ny b/c of the added pressure.
and don’t bother listing a handful of players who did well their first year. cause for everyone of those, there are at least 10 others who can’t hack it here.
omarluckedout. both were not the primary focus of the trade. they were throw ins that their teams had given up on. every night he kneels by his bed and praysto the goddess of LUCK.. he has been a checkbook GM. Not much more than that.
I think that’s fair. ‘08 is certainly make or break. If memory serves, Theo and the Sox FO didn’t have a particularly hot ‘06 — trading a solid #3 starter for a 4th outfielder, trading a bunch of viable prospects for another 4th outfielder to replace Damon, giving away a viable reliever for a backup catcher whose greatest skill was catching a knuckleball, and of course trading their top prospect and a kid who threw a no-hitter for a guy who put up a 5 ERA his first year in the AL.
A lot can change in a year. And at the end of the day, the major off-season acquisitions last winter weren’t even what put the Sox over the top. Drew and Lugo were disappointments given their price tags, and the jury is still out on Dice-K. Okajima was great but Gagne was a bust. At the end of the day, Josh Beckett became the ace he was supposed to be, and all was right in Sox nation and now people are calling them the new Yankees.
Moral of the story, don’t lose perspective. The end of ‘07 was miserable. And I’m pretty sure Red Sox fans were miserable when they lost 5 in a row in Fenway agains the Yankees in ‘06.
I do not understand why Omar Minaya would turn down Milledge and and one of the Mets pitching prospects for Noah Lowry. Then he turns around and trades Milledge for Church and Schneider. Solidifying the rotation is more important, isnt it? Pitching wins ball games. I’ d take Noah Lowry over Church and Schneider any day. I hope both of those guys make it worth Minaya’s and Milledge’s while.
I cannot wait to watch all 162 games this year and enjoy the sweet taste of finishing in 3rd place….Ahhh future so bright, future so bright!
3rd? now lets not go crazy here. Unless, we go through a rash of injuries, the Mets are not placing lower than 2nd. Lets get that straight. The only improvement the Braves have made has been to aquire Tom Glavine. It really solidifies their rotation but lets take a peek at their SS and CF situation.
I also feel that there hasn’t been much that Omar could do this off-season. I think that he has done an excellent job in avoiding Albatros like contracts. Yes, I am still very bitter about the Lastings trade.
I also feel that there hasn’t been much that Omar could do this off-season. I think that he has done an excellent job in avoiding Albatros like contracts
If that’s the criteria, then congratulations- all of us are as good as Omar at being GM.
why are people saying the mets are destined to finish 3rd?
as terrible as the collapse was last year, we lost 1st by one game.
the braves havent make any groundbreaking moves and the phillies, i believe, wont repeat their amazing season post-april.
the natural progression of reyes and wright will be exciting to watch. the rotation will undoubtedly be upgraded somehow — perhaps not in a big way – but something will happen (at worst a livan as a 5th starter)
Are mets fans so privy to failure that we are writing off this season 4 months before it starts?!?! Guys… Port St. Lucie is mild this time of year and the grass probably isnt cut. It’s too early to write anything off and its getting disheartening.
the braves will have a full year of texiera.
I don’t think you can peg the Mets at 3rd, but it’s not beyond the realm of plausible. I never in my wildest dreams thought any team could blow a lead as the Mets did lastings year.
“…blow a lead as the Mets did lastings year.”
Points Guy,
A slick reference to a soon to be chart topping hit by LMillz, “Bend Ya Knees”?
I was talking about the Nationals finishing 2nd…at least they are trying…jk jk
When is the release date? need to know.
Not telling you. Limited supply only. Don’t want you to get the last copy.
I actually think the Mets could win their division but they would have to play hard all the time. it is a weak division in a weak league. i just do not think this group will play hjard all the time.
I also don’t get why A-Rod is “Hot” according to Kaplisch.. instead of getting the 35 million he thought he got 27 and choked again the playoffs…
Whopty freakin do
He’s never going to have a better season then last year.. and as soon as he tails off the Yankee “faithful” are gonna boo him again..
probably b/c of the MVP season he just had. also, he’s going to break Bonds’ record in the very foreseeable future.
I guess.. he also had a nother miserable postseason.. but he wouldn’t be A-Rod if the MVP stats were more important.
This past year aside, Arod is the definition of the ultimate fantasy player. People who drool over this guy have never seen a game, just hist stat line.
Klapisch is an A-Rod fanboy. Maybe that’s why he went way overboard when he said the Mets were going to pursue him full throttle after he opted out. Apparently he fantasized about A-Rod’s desirability to other teams.
I hate Klapish I really wish they could just send him on the Yankees beat. It would be like sending Robert McNamara away to the World Bank.
I feel the same way about Larry Brooks and Al Trautwig. As an Islanders fan, I understand that we must play second fiddle to the Rangers sometimes.
Larry Brooks’ articles spew nothing but venom at the Islanders. Ugh, I need to subscribe to Newsday. Then you get Al Trautwig, who every chance he gets likes to remind you that DiPietro isn’t an elite, much less good goalie. Look at his record head to head vs. Lundqvist, Al. Who has the better team in front of them? Can’t stand homers (d’oh) and frontrunners.
i like klapisch. I think he is very smart and that he is a very good writer. i also think he spends too much time with the yankees.
Lowry had a bad 1.55 WHIP last year, has a mediocre career ERA, and didn’t make it past 160 innings the last two years. I don’t know what’s so good about him, and reportedly, the Yankees wouldn’t even dump Matsui’s salary for him.
As for Church and Schneider, don’t judge Omar’s success on them. Just like you shouldn’t judge Theo’s success on Drew or Lugo. Judge the success of a GM by how well the players play as a team and the outcome. Who cares if Schneider hits .220 if the Mets make the playoffs and go far. And I think Church is going to hit regardless. I heard someone on the FAN say that Nady is better than Church but the stats say differently — Church is a better hitter.
All I care about is how the team plays and whether they get to the promised land. The 2-year probation for BOTH Omar and Willie is appropriate as both need to improve. Theo has been the Sox GM for just 2 years less than Omar has headed the Mets. Yet he already has two WS titles. I think it’s fair to expect Omar to at least get the team to the WS in the next two years. If he doesn’t, then the Wilpons should consider replacing both him and Willie.
The D-backs are favorites to win the NL right now…and we are barely in the discussion.. that’s a pretty big fall from the start of 07.
I wouldn’t judge a season on paper. It’s too premature to say how the D-Backs will do, or any team for that matter. How accurate are pre-season predictions anyway?
The saving grace for the Mets is that none of the other teams in their division has improved significantly. So how can the Mets not be in the discussion?
Just like our saving grace last year during all the miserable stretchs (which are covered up by the giant collapse at the end) was that the Braves and Phils were playing equally poorly?
This team has more holes then the Mets seem willing to admit..
No team won 90 games in our divison last year.. we could of been way out of it, instead of “collapsing” at the end.. that’s why I hate how its viewed.
This team didn’t play well for most of 2007.. just took awhile to catch up with hus.
You wouldn’t judge a season on paper? Then you would wait until the season’s over.
I like where you’re going with this.
+ 10 to points guy. You are exactly right. Now how many here predicted the Rockies to be in the WS this year?
whtemeat, all teams have holes. The Mets actually got rid of a huge one in the bullpen when they got rid of Mota. I think Church-Schneider are a slight improvement over Milledge-Loduca (short term at least). Pedro being with the Mets a full season + expected improvements from Maine, Perez, and perhaps Pelfrey should make up for the hole that Glavine created by leaving. And the winter isn’t even over yet. So I really don’t see the balance in NL east as having changed much so far.
I guess we disagree… I would much rather Milledge alone on my team then those two.. they are nothing special in the least.
Agreed the winter isn’t over yet.. but if metsblog is the pule of the mets.. the only stories are about Johan.. I don’t see any other moves or discussions being presented..
Sure feels like shy oy maybe one of Colon/Loshe/Whatever Omar is about done.
i dont even know what “favorite” means anymore. the mets were a favorite on 06 and in 07 right? 162 games is a long time for things to go wrong
81 games is a long time for things to go wrong. At the all-star break last year Maine was an all-star snub, Reyes was an MVP candidate, Jimmy Rollins predictions were punchlines and the Mets bullpen, for all its holes, had one of the best ERAs in the league.
:?:
Mets bullpen ERA was #8 out of 16 NL teams. How can being in the middle be one of the best? It was piss poor considering the Mets payroll.
And that ERA isn’t even park adjusted. Park adjusted, it would even be worse.
Reread my post. At the all-star break, if was like #3 if memory serves. That was what my post said. I was showing how things can change in even half a year.
I’m actually agreeing with a majority of what you’re saying in this thread. And I’m not defending what was obvious the team’s weak link. But it was also less noticeable when Wagner, Feliciano and Smith were lights out for most of April-June.
Here’s the link courtesy metsblog archives:
http://www.metsblog.com/2007/08/23/stat-mets-have-a-top-bullpen/
These numbers were actually as of 8/23 — which just absolutely shocks me.
For some reason, I can’t post the link, but the info came via yahoosports, posted on metsblog 8/23 — Mets had the 3rd best ERA in all of baseball, and had allowed the 2nd lowest percentage of inherited runners.
The fact the bullpen was statistically above average as recently as late August, completely stupefies me.
I apologize. I didn’t understand you meant up to the all-star break.
So we agree at least that it is a long season and that teams shouldn’t be judged in December how they are going to end up at the end of September.
Agreed.
And I know my long-rambling stream of consciousness posts can be confusing at first read. Especially when there’s 90+ other posts to sift through.
I wonder how accurate Passan was only because the Mets ended up with just the 15th best bullpen ERA in baseball. When you use the results for both the NL and AL, you would expect their standing to get better since they pitch to weaker lineups than AL teams, but it didn’t. They still ended up in the middle of the pack.
They went from #3 in the majors in bullpen ERA to #15 in just one month. Wow. So either Passan was wrong or the bullpen really took a nosedive in September.
I think the D-Backs would be awesome if they could win games 0-0.
+4
hahahahaha nice one
I think it’s fair to expect Omar to at least get the team to the WS in the next two years
He’s taking them on a field trip and buying them all tickets I assume…
For Omar’s sake, he better get a starter.
For Willie’s sake, he better get a clue
There’s a chance of one of the two happening. Of course we all know which one.
Bought Willie the board game for X-Mas.
Minaya can only live off the fact that he got the Wilpons to open up their wallets for so long. He has been extremely underwhelming (bordering on incompetent) over the past two off-seasons and though I don’t think he should be fired, yet, he better do something quick, trading away one of the team’s best young hitters for s__t was not a good start.
Oh boy here we go. Everyone dumping on Omar. My position is that it was not Omar’s fault that the Mets didn’t make the playoffs again last year. It was the players and a few strange decisions by Willie. If they did make the playoffs we would not be jumping all over Omar. What is he supposed to do to satisfy the legion of critics? The core is there thanks to him and the Wilpons money. He still has time to make a few more moves. He is trying to stay in the Santana thing without trading away anymore of his chips.
Milledge is not Kazmir. And Kazmir is not an ACE anyway. He will have to pitch over 200 innings and not be rested every September to start to be considered an ACE. Milledge is just a stupid kid who needs time to mature. Washington D.C.is a good place for him to do that , not New York.
So lets give Omar a little more time. We need an ACE. In Omar I trust!!!!!
As a huge defender of Omars on this site, I have to say I agree with the overall (rational) sentiment that exists in this thread. This is an important season for the Mets and Omars future in the organization. What was the mirage? The ‘06 regular season where every move Omar made went right, or the last three months of the ‘07 season, where every move he made came back to haunt him? My guess is somewhere in the middle — where Omar is not as incompetent as some make him out to be, and not as wonderful as some, including myself, made him out to be a year ago. I also think the list of GMs who the pundits consider “hot,” the Theos, Cashmans, Towers, Beanes, have had good years and bad — but none of these guys have had two disappointing seasons in a row where the team was worse off than where they picked up. I think the performance of guys like Pedro, Manie, Perez, Pelfrey, Reyes, Sanchez, Church, Schneider can make this team can swing either way. And since all of those guys, outside of Reyes, are Omar pickups — so he should either be praised or vilified accordingly.
First of all, Kazmir would be an “ace” on the Mets. As for Milledge, we don’t know how great of a player he’ll end up being, but we do know how good Church and Schneider are, which is not very. Also, why is Milledge stupid? Because he was one of the few Mets who didn’t have a labotomy while the team was completely tanking? Oh nooooo, he upset the opposition, let’s all spend the day writing out apology cards to the Marlins for hurting their feelings. Give me a break, this team is creating a soft and apathetic mentality, and you have to look at Omar (along with Willie) since he brought in most of the roster.
I totally disagree. The bullpen was the main culprit in the collapse and Omar did a lousy job putting together the bullpen last year. Mota-Show-Sele were a black hole at the back end of the bullpen. How can you expect to compete with such a porous bullpen? And the age that Omar had put on the team came back to bite him with injuries to Alou, the absence of El Duque once again down the stretch, and Glavine and Wagner running out of gas at the end.
I’m glad the Wilpons at least understand Omar’s role in putting together the team if some fans won’t. I can never understand how a GM gets to wear teflon.
The Mets do still need 1 more SP to solidify the rotation, and give some needed depth.
But, beyond that, it is a fallacy that the Mets are not a good team (and by extension, on that is capable of making the playoffs) because of the “collapse”. They had a brutally bad finish, for a number of reasons, but it does not mean they will do it again.
This team was slaughtered by injuries, and still won 88 games, and finished 1 game out of the PS. So yeah, some relatively minor upgrades and tweaks can keep them competitive.
And unlike Klapish, I don’t think the new SP has to be Santana. Anyone who can replace Glavine in the rotation, and maybe not pitch like a little leaguer in September, will do.
The team is improved, even with Church and Schneider, but also having ditched Mota and Sele.
So let the off season play out, and make your judegements based on the roster 4/1.
ANd even then, you will probably be wrong. I don’t think anyone expected to win so many games in 2006, and every year a “hot” team falls apart, and a perceived also ran has a big year.
The Phils also are no better, and probably not the Braves either.
Didn’t the Mets finish one game out of a one-game playoff and NOT the post season? They would have had to have been two games better to win the division and make the playoffs outright. Let’s not forget that.
-5
where do i start?
Sure, the Mets are a good team. But, they’ll struggle to cross the 85 win mark again. Just because our competition get better, it doesn’t mean we should stay pat.
This team was slaughtered by injuries. Really? Who among those who were injured do you expect won’t be injured in 08? Maybe Pedro (knock on wood) but he’d only be replacing Glavine’s innings.
The team is improved, even with Church and Schneider. With those two, the team went from a 7.0 to a 7.1. They comprised 25% of the worst offense in baseball.
So let the off season play out, and make your judegements based on the roster 4/1.
What’s the point of this blog then? It’s fun to speculate, discuss hypotheticals and make judgments.
very year a “hot” team falls apart
That’s simply false. Not every year. Besides, our collapse was UNPRECEDENTED.
*Just because our competition didn’t get better
Does the name Moises Alou ring a bell as well? Endy Chavez, Shawn Green, El Duque…
Not makin excuses. Last season was diseasterous, no doubt. But they did have their fare share of injuries other than Pedro…..
Does the name Moises Alou ring a bell as well? Endy Chavez, Shawn Green, El Duque…
And what makes you think Alou and El Duque won’t get hurt this year?
Shawn Green was better off hurt and Endy Chavez wouldn’t have made that much of a difference, if at all.
the timing of the collapse made it historical, but, yes, every year a team has a big lead at some point and ends up out of it….not saying I enjoyed it, just putting it into perspective.
The timing wasn’t coincidental. It was lack of drive, killer instinct, perseverance, Willie’s deer in the headlights, etc etc. whatever you want to call it, you can’t just arbitrarily create a “timeshift” to make an excuse.
not creating timeshift, just pointing out that baseball is an up and down game, and it’s all about “who’s hot” .. see the Rockies, who were certainly not the best team in the NL all year long, but got on a crazy streak and made a “historic” run. Ours was the opposite.
that said, as a longtime omar/willie apologist, I agree that the next two years will and should decide their longterm futures with this club.
+22
You left out the fact that they played under .500 for the last 4 months of the season.
A fact that everyone seems to ignore, and which actually is a very dangerous signal about this team
Omar gets major credit for Maine and Perez, right? As I remember it, he traded for Jorge Julio and got Maine as a throw in and traded for Roberto Hernandez and got Perez as a throw in.
The premise for Omar’s genius in acquiring Maine and Perez was that he “tricked” each team into throwing in the struggling starters.
Based on his inability to do much else, isn’t possible that Omar just got lucky? That he really wanted Julio and Hernandez and Maine and Perez just surprised? That he wasn’t really trading for Maine and Perez?
Before we all celebrate Omar’s trade for Perez, let’s not forget the only reason that he’s still on the team was because he couldn’t talk the Padres into swapping Linebrink for him right after the deal was made.
I’m not even celebrating here. I’m merely asking the question: is Omar as good as these trades suggest? I don’t really think Perez is anything better than a 4 or 5 starter anyway.
Omar gets major credit for Maine and Perez, right
How long does he get to live off that credit?
hey, registered and testing
the team is worse than last year’s. plan on 3rd place.
The team is not a third place team. Our offense is better then the braves and our pitching staff is four starters deep. Atlanta’s ballpen sucks.
Don’t forget the Phillies lost Rowand, who protected Howard with a 300 batting average. Our pitching staff is deeper, although they have an ace.
I still think that the Mets are the best team in the national league.
4 starters deep?
Pedro hasn’t pitched a full season since 2005
Maine had a terrible 2nd half year.. followed by one brillant start on the 2nd to last day of the season
Ollie is the ultimate Dr. Jekyl and Mr. Hyde
El Duque was injured AGAIN during the 2nd half of the season
Pelfrey Pitched one big game the entire year
Where are these 4 deep starters you speak of?
Perez, maine Pedro and El duque
Just look at the mets before Omar got here and after he got here and then tell me he isn’t doing a good job.
That has more to do with Reyes, Wright, and having a single owner, then Omar.
So your overlooking Beltran, Maine, Perez, Pedro .
He changed the direction of the team.
As discussed above.. the Wilpon checkbook brought in Beltran, and Pedro, he tried to trade Perez, and Maine was a thrown in..
Omar deserves some credit, but he’s proved the past two years now he doesn’t deserve that much.
who cares if Perez and Maine were throw-ins. They are our 2 and 3 starters.
The mets would not have gotten Pedro or Beltran without Omar. They Probably wouldn’t have been scared to get Vlad Guerreo either instead of only offering him 30 mill garanteed.
How do you know? Since when does Scott Boras care about anything except whose writing the check..
And incase you didn’t notice.. Maine and Perez being our 2nd and 3rd starters is part of the problem.
“That has more to do with Reyes, Wright, and having a single owner, then Omar.”
EWM,
I don’t think Jeff or Fred Wilpon’s marital status has anything to do with this. I’m no feminist, but it seems as though, you’re trying to say that the Wilpons have money to spend because their wives aren’t spending it. :-)
Talk about opening a can of worms.
No.. I meant doubleday selling the team.. and making the organization easier to run probably helped at least make a unified direction for the team…
And the decison to let any baseball person (in this case Omar) as opposed to a non baseball person (Jeff) run things also helped…
I know…was just being silly. I do that from time to time. That’s how I roll.
Do you want an example of why 07 was Omar’s fault?
Phil Humber making his FIRST ML START during that last crucial week.. the season is ON THE LINE and we give humber his FIRST EVER start.. and he dosen’t go 5 innings.
Add up the Humber, Jason Vargas, Dave William fiasco starts.. there’s your missing two games.
Tom Glavine, our ace had a chance to get us to a playoff game in Philly where the pitching matchup was Pedro v. Loshe.
Thats not omars fault
It never should of come to that!
How are we SO THIN that we have to give a pitcher whose not ready to pitch in the majors his first ML start during the most important week of the season?
That IS Omar’s fault.
How about all th Jason Vargas starts where the Rockies used him for batting practice?
Ditto the Astros with Dave Williams.
But a lot of the problems WERE Omar’s fault. The bullpen was almost entirely Omar’s fault — Mota, Show, Sele. The fact that El Duque was once again MIA at the end of the season was Omar’s fault. Now some fans don’t even want him in the rotation. Yet they are paying him like a starter. Whose fault is that?
the mets are one of 3 teams (mets, braves, phils) who have an equal shot at winning the nl east. they are also 1 of 11 teams (mets, braves, phils, pads, rockies, dodgers, d-backs, cards, astros, cubs, brewers) that have an equal shot at representing the nl against a superior al team (tigers, red sox, yanks, angels) in the ws.
it’s certainly not the feeling of 2006 when many mets fans felt the franchise had “arrived” as a big-time organization. that ship has passed, but at least they have a good shot next year. it comes down to the nl team that stays healthy and has a few of their stars come up with career year.
that being said, omar has done a solid job over the years. clearly the last two have seen bad moves (mota, sele, no-show, newhan) along with lack of gaining starting or relieving help this off season. the latter may not have been possible with the crop of free agents and the mets farm system taking a few hits in reputation in 2006.
let’s mot forget: the mets are not even competitive with maine and ollie in 06 and 07. there is no guarantee that another gm makes those trades. i give omar credit for convincing the wilpons to spend $ on pedro, beltran, and wagner. they were burned a few times and didn’t want to spend big $
If omar was our Gm in 04 we would have Vlad Guerrero in rright field
If Grandma had balls, she’d be Grandpa.
Stick to what he’s actually accomplished as GM.. and not what ifs..
While we’re playing hypotheticals, I’m fairly sure having Vlad would negate Beltran’s existence. Give me the guy producing like Beltran at a premium position in CF, over Vlad’s production in the corner any day of the week.
Not to mention, Beltran was really a 2 for 1 deal. We got “The Mole” too.
The goal was really the mole. That chunk of human housing it was a throw in.
So are you saying Omar overpaid for the mole and was lucky to get a gold-glove five-tool centerfielder as a throw-in?
It was clearly a PR ploy. The mole would be a good distraction in times of crisis and slumps from Mr. Beltran.
I was watching a game in mid-July, when Beltran was batting righty…against a righty!!! I wondered why at first. But then I noticed he was slumping and between every pitch, the camera zoomed in on the flapless side of Beltran’s face. Thus, zooming in on the mole. Great distraction in times of crisis.
i like when these threads devolve into outright ridiculousness, as opposed to their normal subtle ridiculousness.
I think we Metsfans have our underdog edge back after the last two years.
you tell him to stick to what he;s actually accomplished as a GM and not what ifs… then why do you keep saying he meant to trade perez and didnt really want maine. You dont know these things do you just what some reporter perceived to be true. This stuff never came out of omar’s mouth or an opposing gm (all hearsay). Omar made this team relevant again no matter how you want to spin. I do not agree with some of his moves ( like keeping willie) but every gm makes mistakes. The difference between cashman and omar is when cashman he just uses more money to bail himself out of it. Omar is not allowed to do that because of the wilpons. In my opinion, Omar put the right product on the field and willie blew it. Willie probably blew about 5 or 6 games this year with his managing. If we have valentine or pinella the mets are playing in the world series the last two years.
Okay: He has signed Pedro, Beltran, gotten perez, maine.
He has helped develope Reyes and Wright and made the mets contenders.
He has helped the mets compete with the Yankees in New York.
LOL, how did Omar help develop Reyes and Wright? Wow, you are really drinking the Omar koolaid today.
Thats cause Omar has made the Mets Contrenders again.
Hey everyone I found where Omar’s been hiding! He’s posting on metsblog!
But he had nothing to do with the development of either. Howe, Phillips, Duqette, and even Randolph deserve more credit for Reyes and Wright than Omar does.
And perhaps it was the emergence of Reyes and Wright that helped make the Mets contenders again. In which case, Omar’s role is somewhat overblown.
bxsci,
couldn’t agree with you more. omar has brought this team back to respectability.
Jim Ducette (I don’t know How to spell his name) might have traded Reyes and wright for someone like Victor Zambrano.
Actually no. Both were brought up while Duquette was GM, and I think he brought them up at the right time. And Omar has a reputation of his own for trading young prospects who go on to have good careers elsewhere. Like Sizemore and Bay. I also questioned his trades of Lindstrom and Bannister. Not that both are going to become stars, but both could have helped the 2007 team immensely and perhaps made the difference in not making the playoffs.
How did omar trade bay he wasnt our gm then steve phillips was? Omar made a trade for the expos that year to get colon because he thought that they were going to get contracted. what do you need prospects for if your going to get contracted?
Omar traded Bay to the Mets for the immortal Lou Collier. He also traded Chris Young to the Rangers for Justin Echols and Einar Diaz. While it’s true that the Expos’ future remained hazy at the time, that didn’t mean he had to empty out the farm system of prospects and leave it barren, especially when he didn’t get particularly good value back for his trades.
What I am hoping…OK, True Omar is keeping things quiet right now, the calm before the storm. The storm with great waves and big slashes. I remember Omar saying something last year about not overspending on Barry Zito and saving the $$$ for Johan Santana. OK, I believe a chance to aquire Santana, the best pitcher in the game is something that has to be done at any cost. To land that caliber of a player is a once in a life time opportunity. A historic babe ruth type move which will leave the twins speaking of the curse of Johan for decades. Now realisticlly speaking, a package of minor leaugers to go along with an active starting pitcher is whats going to get it done. Omar hyping up Oliver Perez/John Main at this time a coincidence, I think not, but just trying to hype up trade bait. True when aquired, Oliver Perez had great potential but we only have him because of a 3 way trade gone bad when the Padres pulled back from the trade that had perez going for Scott Linbrink. Perez panned out but Im still not a fan of his and would love to see him included for santana if thats what it takes however unfortunately it probably will take John Main who has a more discount years to offer the Twins. So John Main, Church(in hopes of justifying a horrible trade) and a top tier prospect for Santana is what I believe is going redeem Omar. Which still leaves the Mets 1 pitcher short and probably a signing of some garbage free agent pitcher and out fielder, I’d say Jennings and whoever for the OF, but really would like to see Lowry on our roster since we would still have prospects to offer. Bam!
Lowry is a nice pitcher, but we need an ace
I thought I would post this in between Johan posts but Matt beat me to that. How does everyone think that Omar’s unwillingness or inability to trade – sign-aquire a starter effects our team from a player aspect? Omar has continually said he thinks we can start the season with the current roster. These guys are fresh off the biggest collapse in MLB history. Do you think it weighs on them negatively that Omar is not making the moves needed to make sure this doesn’t happen again? Or do you think Willies attitude of the Champagne will taste even sweeter when we win it all is comforting to them?
I will am willing to give omar more time and i do believe that the fact we are in the national league enables us to be competitive even as we are currently…the thing that sticks in my craw is having to see randolph still in place after the epic collapse…he has proven that he sucks as a manager (got totally outmanaged by larussa who had an inferior team in 06′ and was leader of the epic collapse last year….but he is still ‘learning and that gives me a lot of comfort……NOT….)…
You are on point my man. But let’s expand on your post.
He didn’t sign a FA pitcher last season when he knew Galvine was finished after last season.
He traded away a promising young Sp for nothing (burgos)
Didn’t upgrade @ 2b or RF last off season.
Omar is over rated by the media, why/ Who knows, but the #’s don’t lie, and Mets fans deserve better than this used car salesman.
Oh yeah, how Backman for manager while I’m at it, send willie back to the Bronx!!!!!