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According to The Associated Press, the Mets reacquired OF Angel Pagan from the Cubs on Saturday in exchange for two minor leaguers: OF Corey Coles and RHP Ryan Meyers.
Pagan, 26, has a .255 batting average and nine home runs in 318 career major league at-bats.
He was originally drafted by the Mets in 1999 and spent his first six professional seasons in the Mets organization before being sold to the Cubs in January 2006.
…bringing pagan back adds some outfield depth at an inexpensive price, but needless to say, it’s not an earth-shattering move…
…for those Cyclones fans out there, you may remember pagan as the star player on the inaugural 2001 team…
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Angel.
Pagan.
Interesting combination.
Or, I wonder if Endy could be going in a deal… Maybe endy, gomez and some pitching for Johan?
No, there is no alterior motive to this. There have too many small no time trades occuring this off season for me to realisticly believe that there was an actual reason for it. This does not mean Gomez or Endy will now be traded. It has no effect. Instead of working on a pitcher Omar is working on bringing in minor leaguers with no upside. I am not trying to be negative here, but it is completely impossible not to be.
My wife has that SAME EXACT disease. She’s unable to turn off the negativity either.
actually he’s got no options left and will have to stay on the 25 man roster while being a minor leaguer with no up side…
at least this means Gomez can start the year in AAA and get a proper share of AB’s
scratch that, he does have one option year left.
So basically Pagan will be 2008’s version of Ben Johnson… hopefully Alou and Endy stay healthy.
I don’t think anyone other than you and I got that.
wrong
This was the move I was looking for. YES!!!
Pagan will be looking to take Beltrans job
“The one team that continues to try to continue to build up inventory to trade are the Mets, and Smith may be waiting to see if any offer gets better.” – Peter Gammons
I think that this trade is what Gammons was talking about… and not Gomez is more expendable.
It’s hard to imagine Pagan being a difference-maker in a potential Santana deal. But maybe if this makes the Mets more willing to include both Gomez and Martinez we can get a deal done.
Either way it’s hard to complain being that we didn’t give up anything of real value here.
Why give up F-Mart. He should be untouchable. I know he’s just a prospect and some don’t pan out but this kids as close to being a sure thing as you can get. Offer Gomez, Mulvey, Humber, and someone else but not F-Mart or Guerra. Heck throw in Heilman before them.
Nobody WANTS to give up F-Mart. But sometimes you have to give up something of value to get what you need. The offer you suggested isn’t good enough. It’s not even better then the offer Boston has on the table right now.
Lets face it, Johan Santana is the best pitcher of this generation, and we have a chance to acquire him before he even turns 30. If it takes an F-Mart level prospect to land him, then you part with him. No doubt about it, because the best pitcher in the game will be worth more to this team then an Outfield Prospect, even if he becomes a perennial all-star.
You really don’t have to give up F-Mart. But Guerra and F-mart are worlds apart.
Martinez is well more advanced, and ew have less depth in the hitting department. He is one of the Top 50 prospects in the game, and many people would say Top 25.
Deolis Guerra is a pitcher. By getting Johan without losing Pelfrey, we are working with 4 MLB starters under the age of 30. We also will at least have Niese, lower level pitchers, and multiple draft picks.
Carlos Gomez
Deolis Guerra
Kevin Mulvey
Aaron Heilman
Ruben Gotay
for
Johan Santana.
“and NOW Gomez is more expendable.”
Ridiculous typo on my part…
Ridiculous comment too…
Pagan is roster filler, to be at AAA so he can be ready when Alou gets hurt so he can platoon with Endy for a few weeks.
It does allow Gomez to be the 2nd OF recalled rather than the first, which is better for his development and hopefully his trade value.
Pagan isn’t a roster filler.
He is an MLB outfielder. A backup outfielder.
He fits on our bench pretty well as a second outfielder behind Chavez. Anderson & Easley are infielders, and Castro is a catcher.
It does, in fact, stop us from promoting Gomez to an MLB level, and make him much more expendable. The Mets are making sure that they don’t take a huge blow to their roster by trading away, say, Gomez, Heilman & Gotay. All of whom have their positions already filled.
there is almost no senario where Gomez is a bench OF for the Mets (or any other team) in 2008. He will play for..
1) Mets AAA
2) Twins or A’s AAA
3) Twins or A’s starting lineup.
He needs to play, any team who has him will get him 500+ plate appearances.
imo, Pagan will spent more time in AAA than with the Mets (unless Alou or Beltran miss 3+ months)
Gotay is out of options, so he isnt going anywhere.
So they sell him for cash, and then reacquire him two years later at the cost of 2 minor league prospects… GENIUS!
The ‘prospects’ are nobodies. The kinds of guys who are littering every teams farm system. Coles is 26 and doesn’t project to be any better then Pagan, and Meyers has a 4.37 ERA between Rookie Ball and A ball, hardly impressive. They’re nothing to lose sleep over.
pagan is the main chip for the twins. lol
Dont we already have Marlon Anderson, Endy Chavez & Damien Easley for bench players that can play all outfield positions?? Why the hell did we get this guy? Sign some free agent pitchers, overpay them a little bit to get them. Sign Garcia, Colon, hell even try Jeff Weaver. Its worth taking a gamble, someone might be decent. And as for Santana, dont give up the farm for him.
While Anderson and Easley can physically be put out there in the Outfield if need be, neither does it very well. They’re infielders by trade.
I would assume this is just a depth piece to call up once Alou gets injured, if we trade Gomez and/or Martinez.
i can smell the championship now… thanks omar.
This deal had absolutely no effect on the team’s ability or inclination to acquire pitching. We got this guy because, unlike Damion Easley and Marlon Anderson, he’ll be a solid defensive outfielder. At that price, any time he spends with the big club will be gravy.
And, let’s be a bit more realistic than to say Damion Easley can play CF.
I agree with Mets980….this move makes Gomez more expendable. Three starters in the outfield and two backups. That means Easley and Anderson are the first base backups.
Omar is continuing to stockpile and have coverage for what he hopes will be a trade with the Twins.
this move makes me even more encouraged that a trade is coming soon for Santana and the Mets are still acting like they are in it.
In Omar we trust!
are you guys(morons) serious? do you actually think Angel Pagan has anything to do with Johan Santana? Now Gomez becomes more expendable? Pagan is Insurance if someone goes down for a few weeks-he will be on the shuttle that takes him from aaa to the majors all season long. Gomez is a top prospect who could be our everyday outfielder for years to come, but somehow getting a scrub who can fill in on Sundays for Alou makes Gomez less important.You guys cant be serios!
Pagan is the only bench player other than Endy that can play all positions in the OF… I think its a pretty decent acqusition that HOPEFULLY will lead to the “big splash” Omar has been jarring about for the past few months.
Pagan is a very streaky ball player..
isn’t that bad for a bench player?
The Mets are a very streaky team….remember September?
All kidding aside, with this Pagan kid on board; I smell a dynasty. Break up the Mets! (please)
Seems like a good move to me. They dumped Ben Johnson, and this guy basically takes his place on the AAA team, and he can be called up an play good D when needed.
Omar needs to stop listening to Golden Earring and step out of the Twilight Zone already.
He needs to get his Radar Love in the right frequency . . .
people need to relax, this deal means next to nothing, the players we traded are not “prospects”, they’re career minor leaguers, and the player we got is an end of the line insurance policy.
thanx DS; I thought this was an Omar omen!
I saw Pagan play in the first ever Brooklyn Cyclones game, And I can honestly say he’s the only player in that game who’s name I actually remember.
(i know, Mike Jacobs was also on that team, but i don’t remember him from that team)
Jacobs was the starting catcher
Damn… and I thought this was a Johan Santana announcement!
i thought omar was in isreal
Technology sure is awesome isn’t it.
I think Pagan was one of the Cubs hitters who tatooed Jason Vargas in his first start with the Mets this year. Maybe the strategy is to acquire as many of those hitters as possible in order to improve Vargas confidence if he’s called up to pitch next year.
I smell a deal for the entire Colorado Rockies lineup….
Let’s print those playoff tickets!
It is nothing more than trading 2 career minor league players who will probably never see a major league roster for a guy who has major league experience, can play all 3 OF positions and can be stashed away at AAA in case our entire OF practically goes down at the same time like last year. Anderson and Damon can spot play the OF but are not the kind of guys you want playing full time out there. Pagan gives the Mets a guy who can come up fill in defensively and at least hold enough of his own at the plate to avoid it being an automatic out.
If at ANY point angel pagan is playing ANYWHERE in the outfield,
regularly, Don Omar should be fired AND have him take Bernazard and Ricco with him! this guy is a AAAA/ 5th OFer—
–AT BEST—With a 100+ Million $ payroll, The Don’s gotta do
better than Angel Pagan as even an emergency replacement!
You think Omar should be fired if the Mets have injuries and need to call up a AAA player.
… and the Mets should have All Stars as their emergency 5th outfeilder, not 5th outfielders as their 5th outfielder?
No johnnycomelately, I think that after spending a
quarter Million dollars on play salary in the last two
seasons THAT Don Omar MUST BE HELD RESPONSIBLE when Alou gets hurt again and Church shows he’s a lefty platoon OFer(on a bad team) AND in June or July we’re diggin’ around .500
and looking for an Emil Brown type to play everyday.
Not when coming into the off-season following the
greatest collapse in regular season history-Don Omar had the motive,means and opportunity to do
SOMETHING about our SP, RP and Bench depth
problems which caused the collapse.
Smarten-up kid!
I of course meant a quarter Billion Dollars.
And as Dangerfield used to say “No Offense”.
So, I’m supposed to “smarten up”, and I’m a “kid” because you can see into the future and we’re only going to be a .500 team by June or July?
Where the f do you get off talking like that to me? The greatest collapse in regular season history is fun to say, it just rolls right off the tongue. But YOU smarten up, and realize that .500 is a certainly possible. But, for the ENTIRE season, except the final two weeks, the Mets were leading the division. They have the same team, plus a couple tweaks, that I think actually improve the team.
Rooting for management to be fired is just stupid, why don’t you spend you dang time rooting for the team to win… ddickk!
What juuu got a ssstuddderring problem??
I never root against anyone in any position at any time
on my team to do anything but good. only in Don Omar’s case there hasn’t been much to root for lately!
And Again, no offense. Rememeber however, this
team before the epic collapse was a .500 team from
May on. lastly, what improvements u be talkin’ ’bout?
juuu know what a censor is???
Improvements:
Schneider is an improvement over LoDuca.
Schneider may not hit as well, but defensively he’s a strong improvement. I beleive what he’ll lack in RBI’s, he’ll more than make up for in RBI’s prevented for the other team, due to his abilities.
Church is an improvement over Green, both defensively and in my opinion, offesively as well. He certainly doesn’t have the numbers Green does, but I think next year, he’ll have much better numbers than Green will, next year. And defensively, he’ll be a much better player than Green was, or that Milledge would’ve been. (Was I the only one that saw Milledge throw home (I mean try to throw home)?)
Also, Pedro’s back to start the season, Sanchez is coming back, Feliciano starting a new season with his daughter in a better situation, Delgado NOT coming off surgery, Castillo is on our team to start the year, Reyes isn’t currently in a slump (not saying he won’t start in one), Wright is more experienced, Alou is currently health, Endy is currently healthy, Willie seems to have learned a little about motivation from the “collapse”, etc.
I see MANY improvements
Stick to your guns. Church certainly has better numbers than Green. His 43 doubles would have led the Mets.
His platoon splits against lefties aren’t THAT bad, and they’re much better than Shawn Green’s were.
Also, Schneider had a higher OBP last year than LoDuca. Even if he’s a step down from LoDuca offensively, it’s not a huge step. And Schneider is a vastly superior defensive player.
Blah,blah,blah. Yeah, Okay through your eyes we’re
improved?, But I think you meant Alou is currentLY
healthy. Should be since he hasn’t played in 3 months. Oh, but you know that kinda sounds like
the Rabbi we know and love. healthy after 3 months
off. Anyway, make sure to pass on best wishes para
la ano nuevo a su Tio Don Omar.
Only problem “squad” is that Church didnt play last year for the Mets AND hit a bunch of those doubles against US. BUT he is better AT THIS TIME then
Green. Problem is , that’s not sayin’ a whole lot!
So how would you like me to evaluate Church? I look at his stats, I see a guy who had 43 doubles and 15 homers in a cavernous stadium. He also posted an OPS+ of 115.
This guy is going to hit 7th or 8th on this team. He’s going to give Xavier Nady type production in those slots with better defense. How is this not an improvement?
Everyone wanted to see whole sale changes to this team for some reason. The fact is, the only open spots in the starting lineup were RF and C… and Omar upgraded both.
If you don’t think this team is good enough to compete, that’s fine. But there wasn’t much room for Omar to operate with a roster full of players under contract for 2008.
The cavernous stadium was the REASON for the 43
doubles! Hello?!!?? and remember to get back to us
if and when Lasto Millage breaks out, especially
against US. b/t/w you couldn’t be more wrong about
Don O’s options goin’ into ‘08! At the end of this season we had openings at LF,RF,2B and C as well
as #1SP. We had atleast a dozen players contracts
expiring taking over 40 MILLION $ coming off payroll
Nov.’07. Frankly,all of Omar’s moves have been sideways or backwards this off-season.
I LOVE these posts.
Who did YOU want Omar to sign with this windfall?
Are these negative comments coming from Mets fans, or Yankee fans. I am a Mets fan, and I am confident Omar will do what he feels is best to put the best product on the field. He will not give up the whole farm system to get any one player.
from mets.com
Hes major league depth or a AAA starter
The trade imports a versatile, 26-year-old switch-hitting outfielder familiar to the organization who provides depth, big league experience and still has Minor League options…
Because Pagan, whom the Mets sold to the Cubs in January 2006, still has options, the depth he provides may be as a regular with the New Orleans Zephyrs, the Mets’ Triple-A affiliate.
My theory, is they’re all Yankee fans at heart, that have recently jumped aboard the band wagon, because Omar has made this team WAY more fun to root for than the Yankees will ever be, but now they’re questioning thier choice to jump because the Mets aren’t throwing money around like the Yankees, and that frusterates them.
Plus, they’re ex-Yankee fans, so complaining is actually in their nature and they can’t help it.
You honestly think Omar has improved the team then? People say he has done so much via free agency but I strongly disagree. I hate alot of the decisions the man has made. I hated the Alou signing, the Shawn Green trade was also awful. You may say now that Alou was worth it but you are wrong. 8.5 million for a horrible fielder who can’t run and gave you 49 RBIs. We payed the man almost $175,000 an RBI because that is the only thing he did relatively well when he was healthy. But I’m not going to abuse past deals because they are in the past. What I am saying however is that I don’t see any future improvements happening through Omar. Notice I’m not saying fire him and I love Willie I am simply saying that Omar isn’t helping anything YET. And hopefully that will change before the season starts. If not, I’ll change my username to The Who and start posting we’re not gonna take it.
Compare the 2003 Mets, (the team Omar Minaya inherited) and the 2007 Mets. And honestly, explain to me, how they’re not “better” in any, and EVERY way.
Yeah, better after having spent half a BILLION $$$!
Only the anskyees have gotten less for more in
that time. Great company eehh???
So you would have wanted who to man the LF position? Alou’s defense was not as big of a hinderance as you would like to believe. I think I remember seeing his zone rating being rather decent as LF are concerned. Alou was our best hitter down the stretch. If it wasn’t for him it would not have come down to the last few days, we would have blown the thing a lot earlier.
Around and around we go!—I Didn’t say anything
about the Rabbi’s D. MY problem w/ him is simple,
He’s 42 and ALWAYS hurt! The money could have
been spent wiser. sheesh, Don Omar must have
his nephews posting, some of you are very defensive.
How many people are saying that the Patriots undefeated season will be meaningless if they don’t win the superbowl? So why wouldn’t that apply similarly here. The Mets haven’t yet won a world series, they may be better but they aren’t good enough and Omar has stalled in improving him. And who would I rather have gotten instead of Alou? Soriano? Carlos Lee? They may have cost a bit more but they are younger and much healthier. So again I go to my point that they have improved since ‘03, but they obviously have not improved enough and they are failing to improve further indicating they will not get to the WS anytime soon unless they continue to improve which so far Omar has failed to do this offseason which is the point you completely seem to have missed.
May have cost a bit more? You may want to do some closer number crunching there.
Lee will not be worth his contract in another year or two and Soriano is way overrated.
The Patriots comparison is dumb and makes no sense here whatsoever.
The Patriots comparison is the dumbest thing I’ve read today.
Why is it dumb? It makes perfect sense which you fail to see. They made the playoffs- good for them- it doesn’t matter how they did it if they don’t win it all. It doesn’t matter how the Mets do, it’s win or lose the WS. And with Omar every year so far it has been lose no matter how close we may have come to it. Lee won’t be worth his contract? Ok genius whatever you say, regardless of the fact that Alou never was worth his. And Soriano is overrated, a 40-40 player who can hit anywhere in the lineup and start in the OF or at 2nd and still make all-star teams. You think the Patriots comparison is dumb because it is a different sport? Or perhaps because they made the playoffs? My point, which you obviously failed to comprehend is that the only way people perceive a great season is to win it all which Omar has failed to accomplished. He may have improved the regular season records and made it to the playoffs but he hasn’t won it all yet, so he has not yet triumphed.
The point someone made was if it weren’t for Alou it wouldn’t have come down to the last few games for the Mets to not make the playoffs. So my question is why does it really matter in the slightest? They didn’t make the playoffs, why does it matter when they didn’t make them? And where was Alou during the other half of the season that he was injured. If he could’ve been there for another 2-3 RBIs in one or two games they would’ve made the playoffs. Again, like the Patriots, it is irrelevant how you get there if you can’t win the big game. Which the Mets haven’t even made it to yet.
The Pats are the only team in the NFL to go 16-0 in the regular season. So it does matter because they still are going to get the attention if another team gets that close to them.
Hey buddy how about you read? I said the season is a failure if they don’t win the superbowl, not whether they get attention or not. The attention is irrelevant. If you don’t win the superbowl or WS you need to improve if you are going to win it next season. We didn’t win last season, we have really made no improvements. Honestly, as if I didn’t realize they were 16-0 and were getting lots of media attention.
So by that logic 28 other teams had “meaningless seasons” also ??
Not meaningless, but failures. They didn’t reach their ultimate goal so they failed in their most important goal.
retarded logic, but that’s the norm on here. this place has gone straight downhill since last season.
First of all, I don’t believe that if the Patriots don’t win the Super Bowl then this season was meaningless.
16-0 is amazing, Super Bowl or not.
But that aside, I interpreted what you are saying as this:
“The Mets have gotten better but because they didn’t win the World Series, they are failures and Omar Minaya should be fired.”
The playoffs are sort of a crapshoot. They measure how well you play in a span of a couple of weeks. That’s not so say that they don’t deserve it though.
That being said, during the 2006 Season, the Mets were missing both Orlando Hernandez and Pedro Martinez due to injuries. Are these injuries the fault of Omar Minaya? Does he take the blunt of the blame despite having the best record in MLB?
I don’t care about that though. You want to get rid of someone who had drastically improved the team just because he didn’t win it all. That in itself is just dumb.
Besides the fact that whether or not you think what the Patriots are doing could be thought of as a failure or not is irrelevant because it is my point of view that I am speaking from which you seemingly fail to comprehend. Also, stop putting words in my mouth you idiot. You can’t interperet anything because you fail in the ability to comprehend what you read. Did I ever once say fire Omar? No, I did not, again you’re reading is truly pathetic. And do I blame Omar for Pedro and Duque getting injured? No, I blame him for signing players who were already hurt. Pedro was hurt when we got him, although I’m not saying we shouldn’t have gotten him and the same goes with Duque. But you can’t call Omar blameless for acquiring pitchers with pre-existing injuries. And, I did not call them failures, I said they failed in their ultimate goal and need to improve further which would also be the case with the Patriots if they don’t win the super bowl. The idiocy of some people on here is truly unbelievable. Not a single word of what you said is true or something I actually said.
The Pats season will not be meaningless if they lose the Super Bowl, and no one is saying this except you. What people ARE saying is that this Pats team cannot be considered one of the best teams ever if they don’t win it all. So they’re magnificent season will be lost in history.
Perhaps people have trouble “comprehending” your posts due the the awful grammar.
“Perhaps people have trouble “comprehending” your posts due the the awful grammar.”
You were missing a comma and typed “the” twice. And you really are an idiot besides the fact that there is nothing wrong with my grammar. Not ONCE have I said it would make it a meaningless season BUT A FAILURE TO REACH THEIR ULTIMATE GOAL. HOW MANY TIMES MUST I REPEAT MYSELF BEFORE YOU CAN COMPREHEND THE WORDS YOU ARE SEEING IN FRONT OF YOU? PERHAPS CAPITAL LETTERS WILL GET THE MESSAGE ACROSS TO YOUR AMAZINGLY INCOMPETENT BRAIN. YOU HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO IDEA WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT SO PLEASE, JUST SHUTUP ALREADY.
“My theory, is they’re all Yankee fans at heart, that have recently jumped aboard the band wagon, because Omar has made this team WAY more fun to root for than the Yankees will ever be, but now they’re questioning thier choice to jump because the Mets aren’t throwing money around like the Yankees, and that frusterates them.”
Excuse me ReyesRocks, but what team were you watching last year to make the absurd statement that this team was more exciting than the Yankees (or any team for that matter). This Mets team was great the first couple of months of the season & then began a descent in to mediocrity & eventually into garbage. Yeah, watching the Mets blow from June through September was way more exciting than “Joba Rules”. My god how those Yankee fans must have been tortured with that team that came back from rock bottom nly to make the playoffs (yet again). Take off your met colored glasses & see what this team really achieved last season – utter failure & embarassment.
Thank You!! Saved me time! Long Live Jerry Garcia!
I give ReyesRocks credit, he has spunk, but there was something wrong with this team all year last year.
It seemed like all season I kept saying: “it’s only April… it’s only May… it’s only June… it’s only July.” Next thing you know, it’s September and they’re blowing the season.
Something just never clicked, but it was a weird year as well. There were a lot of injuries and the team never seemed to get comfortable on the field.
Last year could very well have been an aberration.
i noted this earlier, this team was just not very good
after may and thats my prob w/ omar. no improvment
since.with the resources, theres simply no excuse.
I understand what you are saying but do you want him to make a move just to make one.
We want him to make a move to improve the team. The small time trades like say, the Pagan trade are trades being made really just to make a trade. We are talking about trades that will truly have an impact on whether or not the Mets can make the playoffs and contend to win the World Series.
Lets say Gomez is in the trade for Santana then it makes the Pagan trade even more crucial because he serves some experience if well actually when Alou or Church get injured.
That is the reaction people have had for every small time meaningless trade, that it frees up other players to trade for Santana. And do we have him? No, we do not. If we do get Santana and Pagan ends up getting more than a couple at bats in the majors then I will agree. Until then, I refuse to come up with excuses for Omar anymore.
Bottom line.
The free agent class this offseason stunk. There was no one out there I was dying to have on this team. I’ll even go out on a limb and say there was no one out there that I wanted.
The only way to improve this team is through trades. Trades take time. Especially a trade for Johan, which involves a long term deal and so many interested teams.
A meaningless random point yet again. I never once mentioned the free agent class. We were talking about trades and how this trade was being made to just to make a trade. Again you truly amaze me with your sheer stupidity.
Was it fun to root for this team in September??? i hate the yankees but at least their fans can guarantee 90+ wins every year with a shot at a WS! A lot of Met fans here are just apologists who settle for mediocrity year after year. This team is a third place team as PRESENTLY CONSTRUCTED. There is no lock in our starting rotation or bullpen and our offense is middle of pack in the NL. Wright and Beltran are the only locks to produce yearly on this team.
only wright is productive; beltran along with delgado and alou(yes alou) are awful with 2outs and RISP. They are choke artists who all batted below .150
2 outs RISP.
worst. stat. ever.
next you’ll tell me you evaluate pitchers based on their records.
So Cy Young’s 511-316 record is meaningless? Worst stat ever, that is just dumb. Runners on and you need a hit to score them, that is important. With one out you could still hit a sacrifice or at least move the player from 2nd the 3rd. But if there are 2 outs it is get a hit or bust. It is hardly a meaningless stat.
thanx for supporting my argument. Ramirez and Ortiz batted overr .400 with RISP. Nuff said!!! THE METS HAVE A GARBAGE CLUTCH TEAM!!
And to think, instead of Manny we have Ryan Church and Brian Schneider.
False.
Ramirez hit .273 and Ortiz .363 with RISP.
There is no such thing as clutch. These two are just good hitters.
Carlos Beltran has a career .309 AVG with RISP. Why? Because he’s a good hitter.
“There is no such thing as clutch… Carlos Beltran has a career .309 AVG with RISP… Because he’s a good hitter.” Care to explain why you contradicted yourself within 5 lines of writing?
don’t wory-nobody wants anything from his farm system. Omar’s already destroyed it!!!!!!!!!!!!!
He does have a lot of speed and would be an above average base stealing bench player. I agree with wallybackman. Endy could represent the MLB ready outfielder the Twins want with Gomez.
Thanks UK!
Just a thought- Endy is proven as a capable big leaguer. He and his great defense, cobined with several prospects might get it done!
my guess is acquiring pagan makes it easier to deal gomez in a SP trade
Great defense=.964 career fielding percentage?
Fielding percentage is an AWFUL metric for measuring defense.
True Dat!
Yes, the amount of times a player in the outfield drops a catch is a horrible measure of their fielding capabilities. Yet again you dazzle with your brilliance. An error means the play should have been made, it doesn’t include hard diving catches and the like. So he dropped 35 easy catches or made 35 errant throws or whatever combination out of 963 chances. The man has more errors than assists. He is utter and complete garbage in the field. Just like BA is a poor indicator of how good a player is right? So of course someone who hits .350 but has 50 RBIs has to be just an average player? I absolutely despise people that think some stats are useless. HRs, RBI, AVG. Tell that to Ty Cobb and Ted Williams. Simple stats are the most useful way to judge a players skill. If you bat 8th you will have less RBIs per whatever then if you bat 3rd, doesn’t mean you aren’t a better hitter than the guy in the 3rd spot. Absolutely ridiculous.
You do know he is only 21 years old and still has time to develop right?
You really are dumb. He is 26. And my point was he isn’t a great defender when somebody said he was. Really, how dumb can you possibly be. I am beginning to think you are disagreeing me just for the sake of argument, which is sad really since especially in this case because you are so wrong and have absolutely no point. Unless you meant Ty Cobb or Ted Williams is only 21 and has time to develop?
you’re an idiot. batting avg and RBI are the WORST ways to evaluate a hitter. get a clue.
fielding percentage, ahahahaha
Yes way to back up your arguments. The amount of times a player puts wood on the ball and gets on base because of it is a horrible way to judge the game of baseball when the entire point of the game is to do exactly that and have enough people do it to score. RBIs are meaningless? Ok, nobody hits more than 20 a year but they can still be all-stars? Or they hit .220 but they can still make the HOF? And the amount of errors a players commit is a laughable stat? Right ok, so if you want to have Pagan as your starting CF because fielding percentage, BA and RBI are meaningless then by all means go ahead.
Gomez is 21.
Besides the fact that there is no mention of Gomez anywhere so your point made no sense… you are wrong yet again buddy boy. He is 22, born in December he turned 22 a month ago. I swear you are honestly pathetic.
wow a month off my bad.
Well actually a year off but that’s alright. Again that is irrelevant since Gomez wasn’t even mentioned at any point in the discussion.
Fielding Percentage hurts better defenders. Endy gets to a ton more balls than the average defender, giving him more chances to make errors. So while he may make more errors, it’s because he has a lot more chances.
It’s like saying Juan Pierre is a better base stealer than David Wright because he has more steals. Wright steals bases at a much better percentage. Pierre just takes off every time he gets on base.
HAHAHAHAHA YOU IDIOT. Errors are only counted if the ball should have been caught. So if Endy is running flat out to a ball very far away from him the scorer will see the play would not have been made under normal circumstances and not count it as an error. And if he does get there in time then he better make the play. It doesn’t help you much if you can get to a ball anywhere but not catch it or not be able to throw it in to stop an advancing runner.
I suggested Endy as part of the package at one point, so I am fine with that!
Makes sense for the Twins (maybe even the A’s). He is versatile and Plays goo D.
If they have to lose Endy that is a lot less painful (potentially) than losing Martinez!
I was actually looking at him as expendable though, since IMO they need a RH power bat spare OF/1B type (Like Mench or Nady) which would leave no room for Endy.
Hey, you want ML ready? Gomez (future star(?)), Gotay, Endy and Mulvey for Santana.
2 guys that can be on the team 4/1, 1 as a starter on that week offense, a pitcher that is close, and the CF of the future.
ANd nothing that can’t be replaced on the Mets!
I can’t tell… Are you actually serious?
MLB Bench: Easley, Anderson, Pagan, Castro & Chavez
Don’t see room for Gotay or Gomez….
Bullpen: Smith/Register, Sosa, Feliciano, Schoeneweis, Sanchez/Kunz, Wise, Wagner
Don’t see room for Heilman…
Gomez, Gotay & Heilman are being traded somewhere…
Carlos Gomez
Aaron Heilman
Philip Humber
Ruben Gotay.
These guys are getting traded for someone.
Add one or two big prospects (Guerra and/or Mulvey) and the Twins can’t refuse that.
Heilman over Sanchez/Kunz or Smith/Register easily.
Gotay will be on the squad and Pagan will be in AAA with Gomez and AH. They have plenty of IF depth on the bench with two OF’s at AAA with options and on the 40 man roster. The bench is a clear plus for the Mets.
They should have given Gotay and OFer glove and sent him to the Dominican Winter League to learn the OF. He has such a nice swing, he would be a solid utility guy.
Absolutely. I’m just getting tired of saying that Gotay is going nowhere. He’s the team’s only backup shortstop and third baseman. There is no one else, but they insist on trading him. Guess they figure Reyes and Wright aren’t going to get injured and play all 162 games. Sometimes I just wonder about the thought processes going on in here.
Damion Easley Games at SS: 191
Damion Easley Games at 3B: 172
Damion Easley Games at 2B: 1108
Marlon Anderson games at 2B: 679
Ruben Gotay Games at SS: 5
Ruben Gotay Games at 2B: 160
Ruben Gotay Games at 3B: 2
Ruben Gotay’s Registered Position: 2B
Damion Easley’s Registered Position: IF
Marlon Anderson’s Registered Position: IF/OF
Ruben Gotay’s our only what?
Forgot to mention: With Pagan, Chavez, Anderson, Easley & Castro on the bench there is no room for Gotay, or Gomez.
And to Nate W:
Aaron Heilman is arbitration eligible, has one year left on his contract, is a reliever and is turning 30. It doesn’t matter who you think beats who. The fact is, Wise, Smith, Sanchez, Hernandez & Kunz could all be viable setup men this year.
Josh Hamilton beats Ryan Freel, but Hamilton was traded. It’s because, to a certain extent, you’ve got to give to get. Carlos Gomez beats Angel Pagan, but we have to trade him. Ken Griffey Jr. beats Jay Bruce, but the Reds will let go of Griffey anyway.
Melky Cabrera beats Johnny Damon, but the Yankees are willing to let go of Melky. Johan Santana beats Glen Perkins, but the Twins are letting go of Santana. And who knows? Bullpens are the most unpredictable parts of baseball. Kunz could be the next Papelbon.
with Gotay there is no room for Pagan, one has options and the other doesnt. If they trade Gotay so be it, but he’s the last man on the bench until then.
and a correction about Heilman, his contract was only for last year and is now up. Otherwise he wouldnt be up for arbitration. He has between 3 and 4 years of serice time so he will be an arbitration guy for 2008-2010 unless he gets an extension (unlikely)
Over the past two years Heilman has been a top 50 reliever in MLB, and is out of options. To suggest the Mets will cut him (which you did by saying they have no room for him so have to trade him) because they have Kunz or Smith or Register instead is simply a case of not understanding how the business of baseball works.
And how old is Easley? You going to tell me he still has the range to play short? He still has the reflexes to play third? Come on, you know he doesnt so stop throwing those games played at me. I was wrong that he hasnt played there but when was the last time he did? You feel comfortable with him on the left side of the infield? Really, truly comfortable? I also didnt see any games played by Anderson on the left side so he doesnt play there. So Gotay has few games played there so your not comfortable with him there I guess. I think you should now start campaigning for Omar to bring in a utility infielder as a backup to short and third caus we really dont have anyone there (he said sarcastically).
I believe that Angel is the son of former Pittsburgh Pirate Jose Pagan. So he comes from a great lineage of bench players.
He’s this year’s Ben Johnson.
I am pretty disappointed by this move( I am prob the only person who cares). Corey Coles has been doing a solid job at every level he’s played at. He is not a guy who appears on prospect lists however, he puts up solid numbers. He is not a HR guy but he is a speed, and on base guy. When I check out the stats from our farm teams, it seems like he is always doing a solid job. I was looking forward to seeing him in a year as a september call up. Oh well. I guess I will have to see him on MLB.com as a Cubby.
He was a large part of Carter’s FSL champ team, but he basically fell off the map in 2007. I dont think anyone feels that he projects to anything more than a 4th OF. Remember Tyner from a few years back?
Saw both in minors, he’s not even tyner. alot less speed.
Saw the kid a bunch in person in 07, everyone else is
right, he’s no major leaguer. Looked overmatched at times
in AA despite his advanced age. had the only 0-5 5ks f/
the lead-off spot I’ve ever seen at any level in 35yrs..
I never thought hims to be a star player. But I was curious to see how he played in the bigs. I think Tyner is a good example. He was solid in TB. Not spectacular, but solid. I think he could have contributed. I was curious to see.
It seems you boys have seen him. What’s his MO? Is he a solid glove guy?
Solid info. Thanks guys.
Wait, he had a platinum sombrero in AA?
Yeah and the pitcher had an ERA of 2.14 48/14 k/bb ratio in 42 IP and he was 22. Sometimes I wonder…
didn’t you get the memo?? All NY Met prospects are garbage. Just read the papers and they will tell you. All of em stink and could not possibly a ML player
actually, i kinda like Tyner as a 5th OFer and advocated for
him a month ago,very much like Endy as aplayer BUT this
kid Coles is a long shot, at best.
Coles kinda reminded me of a knock-off version of
Darren Bragg. Again, At Best.
Assuming, Omar (King Midas in Reverse) stays relatively pat from hereon out, I’m fine with Endy & Angel as the outfield depth with Easley once again as the dire straits emergency corner outfielder.
Yes, Alou will go down for significant time. Yes, Beltran will be afflicted with his annual oblique strains rendering him useless for a couple stretches. Yes, Church will prove to be a platoon player, at best. But this is the hand Omar’s dealt. He should be fired sometime next year if the Mets are again knee chopped by the predictable age and injury woes he’s set the team up for.
Going into 2008 hopefully having both Carlos Gomez and F-Mart starting in the AAA outfield with the hope of both getting a peaceful full season in down there (no raggity sporadic shuttling up to the majors) is the best thing this organization might have going for it as we begin to look at the CitiField Era on the horizon.
I think you should re-read your post again.
Omar should be fired if the injuries mount again? I’m assuming you’re referring to Alou and El Duque.
Alou is just here to bridge the gap to Gomez and FMart. There was no point in signing someone like Lee or Soriano to a long term deal when our organizational depth is OF.
El Duque is our 5th starter. I can’t get crazy over him gambling on the 5th starter.
“squad”, w/ all due respect,you’re out of your mind!
“bridge the gap”?? Huh?? With Pedro’s age/contract,
Delgado’s age/contract, Wagner’s age/contract,
Beltan’s contract, Wright and Reyes almost fully developed and all the veteran Catcher moves the last
3 years(Molina/Hernandez–finally Loduca,Torrealba and
now Scheider) Then Piling $$ and YEARS onto Castillo’s
already overweight, broken down body, Not to mention
Alou, El Duque as well as a bunch of other vets we overpaid and You really think Omar’s bridging some gap?
He was trying to win a championship but like a drunk,
he’s fallen off the wagon and lost his way.
Wright and Reyes almost fully developed? They’re only 24 years old. They’re a good 3 years away from their respective primes.
Alou and El Duque are not overpaid. They’re actually signed to good deals. And what other overpaid vets? You’ve named half the team.
See my post below. This year is the last shot for the vets, because the 2009 team is going to look a lot different from this year’s team, World Championship or not.
After this year, unless they’re traded, the younger players should be ready to step in and Omar will take advantage of a stronger group of free agents.
What other over paid vets the last two seasons?
your kidding !, right ?!
Alou and Duque not over paid?
again, your kiddin”?
If you have guys who are being paid Millions and
can’t preform because of age/injury, then by definition
they are over paid.
And while both Wright and Reyes are legit all-stars
already the should indeed get better. The point YOU
MISSED is you’re own bridging the gap comment.
All the players noted are or have been stars and YOU’RE talkin’ about bridging gaps w/ a team of guys
trying to win a Championship?
Total amount of money spent on El Duque last year:
$6 Million.
Duque started 24 games, pitched 148 innings, had a 2.00 K/BB rate, and compiled a 3.72 ERA.
On the other hand, Brian Bannister started 27 games, pitched 165 innings, had a 1.75 K/BB rate, and compiled a 3.84 ERA.
You wouldn’t pay Bannister $6 million that year?
Total amount for Alou:
$8 Million
Alou played in just 87 games, but compiled a .341/.392/.524 line (.916 OPS), 13 HR, 19 2B and just 30 K.
On the flipside, Aramis Ramirez played in 132 games, compiled a .310/.366/.549 line (.915 OPS), 26 HR, 35 2B, and 66 K.
You wouldn’t pay Ramirez $12 Million that year?
Well Omar is the one who signed the players prone to injury. Now if he got someone with a record like Ripken Jr. and then they got injured you can’t blame him for it. But if you sign multiple players like Alou and then don’t have the depth to cover the position then it is entirely his fault. A player you absolutely know will get injured, honestly why even bother signing them? So yes, if there are injuries and the team struggles because of them it is Omar’s fault.
He did have depth. How was he supposed to know that Endy, Gomez, Milledge, and Ben Johnson would all get hurt?
Gomez classified as depth? He should have been in AAA all season. Milledge was hurt right at the beginning of the season so Omar had plenty of time to pick up another player in case Milledge could not come back or was never the same after the injury. So having really one backup outfielder in AAA at the beginning of a season? I would say that is lacking depth.
What about Church?
His .800+ OPS as a player in RFK isn’t enough for you? Or his .860+ OPS outside of the stadium too low?
I don’t understand your logic.
PLEASE BACK YOUR ARGUEMENT WITH **VIABLE** FACTS !
Solid, solid post!!
But Don Omar the Great is going nowhere until:
1.New Stadiums already open.
2.He’s 1st fired Willie and brought in Felipe Alou AND/OR
3.the anskeeys have purchased another championship.
That’s to you breadclock.
I just don’t get it. Sure Omar had a bad offseason last year, but do we really have such short term memories?
David Wright is the best 3rd baseman in the NL. Carlos Beltran is the best CF in baseball. Jose Reyes is one of the top SS’s in baseball and one of the most exciting players in the game (and no, a few bad months is not going to change my opinion of him just yet). John Maine and Ollie Perez are under 30 starting pitchers coming off strong seasons. They have some young players in Martinez, Gomez, Pelfrey, Humber, Mulvey, and Guerra who I think have a chance to contribute at the MLB level at varying levels of success.
This team isn’t just built to “win now.” And that’s the disconnect between ownership and the fanbase. It seems that way because Pedro, Duque, Alou, Delgado, and Wagner are nearing the end of the line, but with the resources this team has and the young players mentioned above they have a solid base to build on moving forward.
Sure, they’ll give it a go this year, but they’re not going to push all their chips to the center. That’s stupid. I want to watch a competitive team for the foreseeable future.
Wait,wait,wait!—Wait!, sqaud, this team isn’t just built
to win now??–that hasn’t been O’s mantra for the last
3 off-seasons?? If you think not see the contracts of
alou,castillo,mota,valentin,green,duque,wagner,delgado
Loduca, The trading of Millage and The offers to Molina,
Henanadez and Torrealba. Man !, are you defensive of
Uncle Omar!
I hardly agree that a .275 hitting CF is the best in baseball. And as for Reyes and Wright, Omar isn’t the scout, so getting those players in the draft is not in any way his triumph. He was told they were good so he drafted them. Then he also got Pelfrey and Humber and see how they have turned out so far? So even if he was the one that completely controlled drafting on the Mets [which he isn't] you of course are only looking at the positives.
Actually Steve Phillips drafted/signed Reyes and Wright.
So if Omar isn’t the scout like what you said, then how is drafting Pelfrey and Humber his fault?
“So even if he was the one that completely controlled drafting on the Mets [which he isn’t] you of course are only looking at the positives.”
I swear you can’t read.
Juunit, you use batting average like it is the only factor in deciding how good a player is. David Eckstein had a .309 average. But he sucks. Adam Dunn had a .264 average. He is VERY VERY VERY FREAKIN GOOD.
In fact in 2006, Eckstein’s .294 batting average kicked the crap out of Dunn’s .234. Of course, Dunn then proceeded to kick a lot of ass.
Freddy Sanchez had a .304 average last year. Dan Uggla had a .245 average. However, he was/is a MUCH better ballplayer.
Grady Sizemore had a.277 average. Pretty good player, huh? But according to your Godly knowledge, Juan Pierre was much better with his .293 average.
Sizemore sucks and Pierre is a Sultan?
I didn’t say BA is the ONLY way to read a player’s skill. I am saying that people just think it is meaningless because they read it from some moron sports writer when in fact it is a huge meter in the player’s actual skill. And Dunn isn’t an amazing player. Please, the guy has worse D than a 12 year old and stands at the plate only swinging at pitches he thinks he can knock out which percentage wise no player ever does with regularity more than once per 12 or so at bats. And besides, a BA of just around .300 isn’t exactly amazing, it is good but it isn’t hall of fame. So no, Pierre is not better than Sizemore. Sizemore is capable of hitting .320, he is a great player but not just because of that, although it is a much larger factor than most people give credit to.
no, it’s not much of a factor at all. i’ll take beltran .275 with fantastic power over pierre’s .293 with no power whatsoever. once again, get a clue.
It all comes down to who produces more runs for the team offensively. Through runs scored and through RBIs. Having a higher BA allows you to be on base more often, therefore it is more likely you will score more often. And when players are already on base it is more likely you can advance them or get them home. And comparing a career leadoff hitter with a career heart of the order hitter trying to prove your point is pathetic. How about you compare him with say Vernon Wells. I would take HIM over Beltran any day. Similar power, less strikeouts, better avg, actually hustles and doesn’t get hurt every 2 weeks. Once again, try supporting your comments with evidence instead of attempting to insult my inteligence.
Beltran: .280/.354/.496/.850
Wells: .281/.331/.478/.809
Wells has a *slight* advantage in AVG, but Beltran is above him in OBP, SLG, and OPS by a decent margin.
Still want Wells over Beltran? And Beltran is a better defender and has played in about the same amount of games per year than Wells.
This is totally unacceptible. A total and utter debacle.
Mets heirarchy has their heads in Flushing Bay.
Britney Spears has done more positive lately than Omar and Freddie COUPONS.
At least she has done more things that get people’s attention. This signing may not even make local news.
you are all retarded. period.
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
omar keeps the hits coming! gm of the year, baby!
well everybody seems to despise this trade, which i don’t mind, but eh at least we didn’t give up milledge to get him, lol. :sad:
now when’s the johan trade going down?
so let me get this straight…we gave pagan up for nothing, now we give two guys to get him back? All riiiiiight!
WAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH !
lmao tony paige tonight on the fan: “pagan!! where do i get my playoff tickets?!” haha :(
Tony Paige is a closet raacist.
Omar basis his team on pitching,speed, and defense if i remember correctly. Doesnt pagan have really good speed? He’s real young. I think its a great move, just as a project
Pitching? Is that why the pitching is what we have had to improve from season to season? Speed and defense, so he signed Alou and traded for Delgado? I’m sorry but just because we have some good young pitchers and some fast young players with good D doesn’t mean that’s what Omar bases the team around.
jeez.
162 posts for this minor move?
“The Cubs have traded fiercely sub-mediocre outfielder Angel Pagan to the Mets for — wait for it — outfielder Corey Coles and pitcher and righty pitcher Ryan Meyers, both of whom are unlikely to ever be serious Major League prospects. But don’t believe me”
its no biggie- as was said (kind of), Pagan will fill the role that Ben Johnson was supposed to – outfield depth as 5th OF type.
I for one think Angel Pagan most certainly justifies the 20% increase in ticket prices!
Oh…Lord help me please! :>(
… he changed his mind?
Pagan was DFA in 2006 to make room for the completely neccessary ‘Yusaku Iriki’ so dont knock the move so quickly!!!
Iriki would go on to not make the team in ST, then fail a drug test in the minors. If it wasnt for letting Pagan go, we wouldnt have had all of that…
I could make it even worse by adding that if Pagan was still in the system the Mets likely wouldnt have needed to trade for Ben Johnson last offseason, meaning Heath Bell would still be a Met. Oh the horror that has been the Omar tenure as GM…
(please note sarcasm… all of it)
Arclight33……..isn’t there some nice Yank-me blog you can go and play on (if not, how about playing on the Cross Bronx Expressway instead ??)
Haha I wouldn’t be surprised if she has “done” more than the entire Mets front office.
48 strikeouts and 14 walks in 42 innings pitched.
College ball is better than single A.
Yes I am sure that is why all college players start lower than single A coming out of college and have worse numbers when they make it to single A. They still use metal bats in college. And after all, hitting with aluminum bats really gives you a good idea of the kind of power a player has. Ha, you moron.