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In the Star-Tribune, citing ‘several people with knowledge of the trade talks,’ La Velle E. Neal III reports that the Twins have recently ‘adjusted their demands’ for Johan Santana.
According to Neal, Jose Reyes no longer needs to be part of any deal for Santana, just as the Twins are willing to accept other players instead of Ian Kennedy when negotiating with the Yankees.
However, Neal concludes by writing…
“It’s still hard to view the Mets as a serious player in this game, because although they have good young players, they lack quality talent up front of the deal.”
Meanwhile, according to multiple reports, while in Boston to support the annual Hot Stove, Cool Music charity event put on by Red Sox and Peter Gammons, Yankees GM Brian Cashman essentially said he has less control under Hank and Hal Steinbrenner than he did under their father, George.
…this isn’t really news, in that reports have indicated how cashman wants to build from within, i.e., not trade prospects for Johan Santana, while hank wants to make the big splash, i.e., trade for santana…
…this report is unique because cashman is actually saying it all out loud, and he’s usually very, very quiet…
Cashman, as quoted by multiple reports…
“Mostly, especially in our big markets, you get challenged on the short-term stuff so much you can make a mistake if you get caught up in the winds of the pressure of making a trade…Like right now, the Red Sox and Yankees, at least, are in the middle of this Johan Santana stuff. What’s the right thing for the now? What’s the right thing for the future? These are the wrestling matches that go on in the organizations and you have very spirited conversations about what’s right and what’s wrong.”
…as a Mets fan, who would like to see santana in queens, this worries me, because cashman’s control clearly helps the Mets cause, while hank’s does not…
For more on a Yankees perspective, check out Steve Lombardi at Was Watching.
Getting Santana “at all costs” and thereby throwing some meat to these ravenous Mets fans, is a terribly short-sighted, desperate move. What if we get Santana (by giving up the whole farm, all our young emerging depth that we will need for a long season) sign him to a record-breaking 7 year contract, and still don’t win the World Series in ‘08? Or even get there?
Then what?
Throw more money at aging, risky veteran players next off season to overcompensate again? Cuz we wont have anyone to promote or chips to trade?
why is Cashman wrong for wanting the Yankees to develop properly for the long haul?
Gomez & 3 pitchers is as far as the Mets should go for Santana.
I really hope they don’t throw in the untouchable F-Mart.
I cringe at the thought of being left with none of our 3 highly touted OF prospects to add to our enviable core of Reyes & Wright.
It will be hard enough seeing Millz blossom in DC, and possibly Gomez in Minni, but to see F-Mart tear up the league (hopefully) for the next decade or so on another team would be real tough.
It’s hard enough seeing Kazmir succeed these last few years after such a short-sighted, knee-jerk, instant gratification quick fix trade was made to “win-now at all costs”.
Now were trying to trade more than just Kazmir to essentially replace Kazmir.
Everybody should lower there do or die expectations a notch, and enjoy the Mets actually being a quality fun to watch team again after all those embarrassing seasons that preceded this mini-renaissance. I would like to see more player development with an eye on the long-term and a run like the Braves had in the 90s.
I’ll buy that logic. While Omar of course should strive to do what he has to to give the Mets a chance to win it all in 2008, it should not be at the expense of doing so (reasonably) for years to come after that.
And guess what? The team, as constructed now, is a contender to make it to the WS. Just like last year.
u might be right i just don’t think we will be dominant man its not the braves or phils that scare me man its the d-backs now
The Mets have multiple lower level prospects expected to bloom by many analysts:
Lucas Duda
Dylan Owen
Scott Moviel
Francisco Pena
Juan Lagares
Marinus Vernooij
Eddie Kunz
Brant Rustich
Jon Niese
The Mets have 3 first round picks.
Trading Gomez, Mulvey, Guerra, Heilman & Gotay wouldn’t be that bad.
Getting rid of Heilman & Gotay is actually looking toward the future.
Sanchez, Kunz, Burgos, Smith & Register should get time in the bullpen.
Gomez, Mulvey & Guerra are only 3 prospects, my friend. And plus trading them for Santana gives us 4 MLB pitchers under 30.
Hear, hear! Well said!
What if the Mets are planning on making the following offer to Minnesota for Johan Santana:
Endy Chavez or Angel Pagan (to play CF in 2008)
Carlos Gomez or Fernando Martinez (top OF prospects)
Deolis Guerra or Kevin Mulvey (their top 2 pitching prospects)
Aaron Heilman, Mike Pelfrey or Philip Humber (major league or major league ready pitchers)
This keeps the Mets from losing both Gomez and Martinez, and makes sure the 2008 outfield depth is still there. As for the pitchers, they only lose two top young guys, or one plus the established Heilman, depending on what the Twins are looking for.
YAY!! the impotent omar and wilpons will ONCE AGAIN lose out to neanderthal hank. YAY! the yanks will keep the bragging rights and back pages. YAY! 3rd place for the SMALL MARKET mets in 2009!! YAY!!!!!!!!
and 2008. YAY!!
Who cares about the bragging rights and back pages?
Too many Mets fans and their inferiority complexes are overly concerned with the Yankees and one-ups-manship. Who freakin’ cares?
I prefer the drama of the actual game than about the drama of “the sky is falling” journalists and fans.
Its too bad that intelligence and respect is sorely lacking from many immature sports fans who ruin the simple beauty and joy of watching a kids game.
If I ever made a big business decision based on emotion of what my neighbor was doing rather than on sound fundamentals, I would surely end up broke.
I trust Omar to guide the Mets through some tough decisions with no easy answer.
I agree completely. The only back page I care about is the day after the World Series ends. I want the Mets to be on that one.
That said, I think Johan gives the Mets the best chance of getting on that back page next year. Maybe if they don’t get him, they’ll be good enough to compete this year, and maybe those prospects will blossom and help us win for years in the future. But maybe the Mets really will be as bad as people make them out to be, and none of those prospects will ever become a Major League starter. The Celtics gave up a LOT for Kevin Garnett before this season started, “mortgaging their future” in a sense. I’d say it’s paid off, wouldn’t you?
more spin.
I think many are underestimating the importance of shipping arguably the best pitcher in the game right now out of the AL. Unless the yanks or sox blow Minni away, any comparable deal has to go to the mets. Isnt not having to potentailly match up against the best pitcher in baseball in the Alds/Alcs worth at least one prospect from the mets?
So these teams know this and its a matter of who blinks first: will the mets literraly give away the entire farm system or will hank make it a 6-1 trade, pay another 50 luxury tax all because he cant stand being upstaged by the mets.
If the mets can wait it out and hank doesnt do something stupid, johan could be wearing orange & blue. The twins cant wait forever
Well, if they do trade him, how likely is it that they even make the post season in the next few years (as they rebuild with the young talent they get back)? A lot can change in 2-3 years. Who knows how dominant Johan will be, or any of the current top teams.
If the Twins aren’t expecting to be in the playoffs anyway this decade, might as well get the best package back.
Better players = a better chance of making the playoffs. And you can worry about who you face when you get there.
i dont konw why my last post got blocked, maybe because I put a link up…but check out
nydailynews.com
click on SPORTS COLUMNISTS and read Bill Madden’s article about the risk in giving pitchers long term contracts OVER THE LAST THIRTY YEARS
best part though, which i’d love for someone to send to Cashman AND Epstein is this:
“Santana is 1-3 (his one win coming in relief) with a 6.89 ERA lifetime at Fenway Park? That might be as much a red flag as anything when you’re talking $100 million contracts”
Well, at least he wouldn’t have to face the Sox if they traded for him! Although watching the Yanks light him up in Fenway would be sad on many levels.
yeah but he’d have to PLAY IN Fenway!
X-Nady,
I have been saying what you are saying since Day 1 of this saga (many months ago). Why would the Twins help the Yankees? The Yankees, in a lot of ways, represent everything the Twins hate- and you would think the Yankees would be the last team in the world the Twins would want to deal with/help out, ESPECIALLY since they are in the same league and the Twins would have to face Santana anywhere from 2-5 times per year, and perhaps in the playoffs as well. Same with Boston. You would think the Twins’ priority would be to get Santana OUT of the American League and that the only thing that would prevent that would be if some AL team really blew them away- and even then, the Yankees or even the Red Sox would be the LAST TEAMS ON EARTH the Twins would want to help out. I’ve been saying this all along and people have been brushing it aside, but I really think this has got to hold some water, and perhaps this is what has kept this thing going so long- aka the Mets maybe are finally stepping up to the table now, which the Twins were hoping for. Otherwise they would have just taken that cr*p package from the Red Sox 6 weeks ago. I mean John Lester and Coco Crisp is not exactly an offer I’d want to jump on. Lester walks the ballpark and works to a WHIP in the 1.55 range and Crisp is basically a slug that can’t hit anymore.
u know why fmm
because the twins would love to gut the yanks farm and make them impotent for a few years
Were all getting set up here for Blanton’s arrival.
Forget Blanton. This team needs a pitcher with a K/9 better than 5…
Don’t get me wrong, I would love to see Santana in queens but what this team NEEDS and what it will actually GET are 2 different things.
The Mets standards are too low. The Red Sox and Yankees and even the Angels/Cubs “think big.” The Mets are content to just do the minimum and never seek to go that extra mile. Even when they signed Beltran, Martinez, Wagner, etc.- the overall payroll remained unchanged due to other salary being shed in the process. Yet they raised ticket prices through the roof! Had us all fooled- not me though.
you know i saw blanton at the game that paulie lopuka had his little temper tantrum and threw his toys at the ump blanton did look unhittable - eventhough we did win i think with a better defense behind him and our offense he could be a 17 game winner with mid 3 era
He’s not bad ESPECIALLY coming over to the national league. I just don’t think we need another mid-rotation type starter, we have enough of those.
yeah big lou but he has more upside that livan “i can’t believe i ate the whole thing” hernandez or carlos silva or the philadelphia scrub losher
Rusty,
I certainly hope you weren’t serious when you talked about how the Twins grand plan is to deplete the Yankees farm system? The last I checked, the Yankees have a 230 million dollar payroll and can just buy anybody they want, for the most part. Yeah they’d be losing Hughes (but gaining Santana!!!!!). In his wildest dreams, Hughes will never even be 75% the player that Santana is. And besides that, they’d be losing Melky Cabrera- not exactly a big loss. He is a punch and judy type 9th hitter for God’s sake- I don’t think losing him will exactly ruin the NYY’s team for the next 2-3 years. And in addition to that they’re giving up…what? Maybe a Kennedy or some other 4th-type starter in their rotation. I’m sorry Rust, but you are lost. We just cannot allow the NYY to kick us around on the backpages yet AGAIN. The Mets haven’t made a big splash in over 2 calendar years (Wagner). So it’s about time. And I don’t even care so much about the splash- the Mets, more than any other team in baseball, need Santana. They haven’t had a legitimate ‘ace’ in 15-20 years (Gooden). It’s about time. And if this deal is a possibility you MUST MAKE IT HAPPEN and his contract demands shouldn’t even be a consideration- but with Freddie Coupons, they always are. I’m so sick of this team- they really have lost me over the past calendar year or so, as they’ve lost most of their intelligent, passionate fans.
as they’ve lost most of their intelligent, passionate fans.
But what does that have to do with you?
If they really lost you, what are you still doing here talking about them?