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Last night on SNY’s Mets Hot Stove, Willie Randolph was asked if he prefers to manage his bullpen based on feel, as opposed to having defined roles, to which he responded…
“To tell you the truth, guys, I believe in defining roles – but guys have to step up and take over
that. I mean, just because you say eighth, seventh-inning guy, if he’s not doing the job…
“If you show me you want the seventh spot, eighth spot, I’ll give it to you, because it’s easier for me to go to a guy if he’s throwing the ball well. But, just the idea of putting a guy out there because he feels comfortable in that spot? No. We’re about winning, and winning games, so I’m gonna try to put the guys in a position to help us win. And they need to be available and flexible when they need to take the ball and get the ball done….Players want to be comfortable, but you’ve got to perform.”
…this was my point last September…i kept getting e-mails and comments blaming willie…which was part true, i suppose, since he made the final call on who pitched and when…but, more importantly, he just didn’t have the horses when he needed them…i recall fans getting all worked up because he would use one guy over another and then vice-a-versa on the following night, and no matter what willie did he was wrong…he was wrong, not because of his reasoning, he was wrong because he could do no right…no matter who he called upon the pitcher failed…this is not to say willie is innocent…i mean, he must accept some responsibility…but, the actual pitcher must shoulder most of the blame, as should the starters, who could not pitch beyond the fifth inning for so much of the second half of the season…
SNY’s Mets Hot Stove is hosted by Kevin Burkhardt and airs live every Monday at 6:30 pm and again at 11 pm.
Great point, Matt. I agree 100%.
Blaming Willie for last year’s bullpen woes was like blaming Willie for picking the wrong poison. They all failed when we needed them most…
the odd thing is that when you look at the idividual game logs it looks as if most of the performances were good ones. Especially Heilman and Sosa who they relied on so much.
It just seems that every night one different guy came up small, rather than a few bad nights where everyone scuffled and they gave up 16 runs.
I like what they now have with Wise, Sosa, and Heilman all capable 7th and 8th inning guys, and if Dauner can contribute it gives then a shot to have a shut down reliever every day without overusing them.
I dont know if its that clearcut though, because Feliciano is more than a lefty specialist. If a team has a lefty heavy lineup Feliciano is going to get that inning even if its the 8th. In that situation one of the righties is going to have to pitch earlier, and going to have to accept that.
That leaves Wagner, Schoeneweis as a loogy (love that term btw) and long man, and maybe one other righty (Stokes/Register/Smith) whose role will be go get the water and gatorade as far as I can tell.
the bullpen hasn’t been improved unless sanchez comes back healthy and back to form (april 2006 that is. he was dominant after that)
sele, schoeneweis, and mota were terrible last year.
no-show is still there. sele and mota were replaced by two of the following: stokes, register, wise (hardly impressive)
with a weak back-of-the-rotation, the staff is in a lot of trouble.
*wasn’t
Well, wait to see how the pen shakes out. There is still a chance that one of the young strong arms (Kunz, Rustic) kicks butt in ST and forces his way in.
I also don’t understand getting Stokes. I hope he has options, because I really want to see something positive before he comes up. Or maybe he is getting converted to a SP?
Sele was a wasted spot, so anything is an improvment. Mota did OK at times, but the fans couldn’t take him again.
And Schoe pitched better later in the year, and if used as a LOOGY, could be OK.
So, there is a decent chance that the pen could be OK next year.
and most important might be having replacements waiting on the farm, and being willing to call them up if someone isn’t doing the job on the big club.
I hate to be the antagonist, but I the BP was horribly mismanaged in a number of ways.
1) By July, you need to define roles – should have been PF, AH as setup for BW, with SS, JS (one replaced the other) and GM in middle relief and AS for anything before 5th (or even 6th inning). Even if guys end up faltering – giving roles is about keeping the BP happy, because when the night shift feels crapped on, they tend to not perform as well (more of a player relations issue)
2) When Gotay is swinging a hot bat, you can let him start a few games, but when a reliever is throwing well, you should NOT take to using him 8 innings/week.
3) Willie had way too short a leash with PF, and some others. Always assume that anyone but your closer will probably let one guy on base before he settles down. Better if he doesn’t, but Mets did far worse, when Willie brought in a pitcher (usually Feliciano) with a very short hook, then brought in another reliever who (Mota, Sosa) who lost the game.
+2
you’re not the antagonist, you’re the guy who’s been watching the games, like me.
Willie overused the bullpen, and they got tored and sucky towards the end. He treated the SP as if they were Greg Maddux and bullpen as if they were the Yankees’ bullpen in their heyday.
Cerrone is off on this one (surprised he didn’t just copy one of the smarter commenters, as he usually does). But he’s not way off either since, they all sucked. But they all sucked, b/c he chose to overuse them.
Get it?
how do you measure over-use? none of the relievers pitched more than previous years. it’s also true that none of the reliever under-performed last year based on their last 5 years. none.
the problem is lack of depth and talent in the bullpen to go along with starters who are either inexperienced at pitching 200 inning or too experienced at it and can no longer go there.
wagner, heilman, and feliciano are talented and have a track record of success. you can win with 3 relievers in this era.
thanks for the thoughtfull response to the facts i presented :)
there was a thoughtless response that i was sarcastically poking fun at. really, i promise.
nice, my post got deleted
whats with the hostility directed at cerrone? Points guy has a cheesy shtick and now’s he’s the main event?
The problem is the new guys (and im talking about 95% of the current posters) here think they’re so god darn witty that people actually come to this site for your comments.
They don’t–in fact most people don’t even bother reading them. So pat each other on the back. Smugly let everyone know the fact that cerrone “copies the smart posters”, because geez how did Cerrone get by WITHOUT points guy’s repartee’.
Nothing more pathetic than a self-important internet nerd.
+3
well said. these johnny come lately’s are annoying.
i give you credit. you even give points when a poster basically says you’re the downfall of the comments section
It’s been lost to nonsense, but I tend to disagree about defining roles.
I think that’s how the bullpen gets worn out. Think about it.
If you set someone as the 8th inning guy, you’ll turn to him in close games in the 8th inning. But what if you play a bunch of close games, you’re going to be relying on a smaller group of pitchers.
Better to have a strong group overall instead of assigning roles. Their role is to pitch in relief when needed, period. The only one who should have a defined role is Wagner.
Obviously Willie needs to know his guys and which situations they thrive in, so in a way, roles may in fact become defined. But essentially, there shouldn’t be some kind of formula on how to use the relievers.
zen, there was a two week stretch later in the year when Heilman pitched or warmed up (sometimes multiple times) every day. Thats one example of overuse. He must have been underused earlier in the year because his overall use is about normal. In fact, I recall there being concern over Aaron’s arm and pitching on back to back days early in the season so he was used less back then. Sorry thats about the only example I could think of. Sosa and Schoe are new to the Mets so there is no real way for me to judge thier usage.
Heilman Sept 8th-23rd, 11 appearances in 16 days. Plus days he warmed up and didnt pitch…
That equates to 125 appearances in a season!!!
I disagree with the overuse–the starters couldn’t pitch effectively deep into games, and because of that the bullpen gets taxed…had there been som consistency, then the pen doesn’t get stretched thin
Willie must NOT use Schoenweiss or Feliciano in any role other than against lefties. They’re prone to tiring, and they’re numbers against RH hitters speak for themselves…
modern bullpen usage is so idiotic it’s not even funny.
and if show was used as a LOOGY he would’ve been fantastic (check his splits), so you can blame that one on willie.
…as should the starters, who could not pitch beyond the fifth inning for so much of the second half of the season…
While I’m certainly not giving Willie or the bullpen a pass, there is not a team in baseball that is capable of consistenly winning when they’re going to the bullpen in the 5th inning, every night.
It is surprising how much better the pen is when the SPs go 7+ on a regular basis, isn’t it?
Geez…Willie mis-managed the pen miserably. Kept using Schoenweis as a 1 inning guy when he is a lefty specialist AT BEST. Brought in Sosa all the time when the situation called for Heilman, etc….
Such a homerific look to say Randolph didn’t mismanage.
Matching people to innings is over-rated. If the Mets are up 6-2, and Pedro has thrown 110 pitches when the other team loads the bases with nobody out in the bottom of the 5th, you don’t want an Aaron Sele coming from the pen — you want a Sosa/Sanchez coming from the pen. Because if you get out of that inning still up 6-2, you can give the 6th inning to Sele with a 4 run lead and a chance to pitch 2 innings…but if you end up down 6-5 after 5, then everyone works.
Maybe we need a pitching stat called “batters faced successfully” — it rewards a pitcher when the batter doesn’t (a) reach base by hit/walk/HBP; (b) drive in a run; or (c) advance a runner with an out…