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In a post to MetsGeek, Alex Nelson breaks out his calculator to determine the top 12 ‘Real’ Met-Killers of all time, i.e., guys who hit significantly better against the Mets compared to when playing against other teams.
According to Nelson, the ‘real’ No. 1 Met Killer of all time is not Chipper Jones, Derek Jeter or Pat Burrell, but OF Rico Carty, who had a 1.064 OPS in 360 at-bats against the Mets - compared to .833 OPS against other teams.
…hmm, tell that to Armando Benitez, and the dent i put in my kitchen wall thanks to Brian Jordan…
…also, i have never hated a player more than i hated John Rocker…and, frankly, i suspect Kenny Rogers is among the most hated Mets, thanks to his performance while actually pitching for the Mets - a true accomplishment if ever there was one…
Tommy Glavine gets a nice nod for his final performance. Don’t care what you say about his performance over the years of his contract — that one inning (not even a full inning!) was such a killer.
Yeah, I hate Glavine much more than Kenny Rogers.
Hell, the last 3-4 starts of the year killed the team as well. One decent performance and they might have eeked in ahead of Philly.
I can’t wait to hear Shea the first time Glavine takes the mound for the Braves. The vitriol will be poisonous.
I’m sure everyone booing him will be the same “fans” that booed Beltran after his strikeout to end the 2006 playoffs.
Word. Glavine turned himself around the second half of 2005 and he definitely stepped up during the 2006 playoffs. As a result, I’ll never boo him when he shows up at Shea. I hope he never wins another game at Shea, but I won’t boo him.
Are these “fans” going to boo Ollie as well for his meltdown during the first game of that series? He hit two batters with the basesloaded and was gone by the 4th, yet he seems to get a pass.
Same – I respect the guy as a baseball player. That’s enough for me.
I think the fact that Glavine melted down in such a short period of time and at the very beginning of the game is what sticks in most fans’ craw. If he had given up 7 runs over 7 innings, the blame would have been more evenly distributed between Glavine, the Mets’ anemic offense and poor defense. Instead, it all came down on Tommy’s shoulders.
Of course, it doesn’t help that he was a lifelong Brave who hurt the Mets many times in the past.
hard to say otherwise. The only other recent memory is Kenny walking in that run, but I can’t think of anyone (also considering his history with the brves) who’s done more to kill us…that one performance puts him at the top.
I’m amazed that the entire Mets fanbase turned on Tommy for his last performance. His response wasn’t surprising – he’s been diplomatic his entire career and never shows much excitement. Outside of his first year here, he did a very good job and helped us.
Blaming him for the final performance is essentially putting the entire Mets collapse on his shoulders – there was a lot more to those two weeks than 1 performance by Tommy Glavine.
I’m in no way a fanboy; I never quite liked him here – but I wouldn’t make him one of the top Mets killers because of that one game. Kenny Rogers belongs there because he stunk all along and then … you all know the rest.
Fair enough, but it was more than his last start against the Marlins. His pitching during September was emblematic of the entire team’s sturggles. He simply wasn’t good when they needed him to be.
i wouldnt put the whole collapse on his shoulders but if he had pitched a good game 162 and the mets won there very well may not have been a collapse. so i think the feelings towards glavine are justified because no matter how bad the team played in the last month when it all came down to it all they had to do was win on the final sunday with glavine on the mound.
But you can’t use that logic. You are putting it all on his shoulders. It didnt all come down to one game – it came down to two weeks. Glavine’s game was the straw that broke the camel’s back, but he is no more responsible for the collapse than Reyes, or Maine, or Ollie, or our entire Bullpen.
Had we won 2 more games at ANY point of the season, that crisis would have been averted and Glavine’s last start would have just been an ugly day.
For some reason everyone needs a scapegoat. His heart was always in Atlanta, he was never a true Met, he never stuck up for the team, he has really ugly hair. Those are all reasons not to like the guy – but you can’t villainize him for that one game.
Speak for yourself.
I am speaking for myself. You can think whatever you want to think. I’m just stating that the logic is flawed and you are being irrational. :D
LOL … I’m not being irrational at all. Maine and Perez won 15 games each. Mr. Hall of Fame won 12. He was not good last year overall and he came up empty when it counted most.
Nothing is 100% his fault obviously. I don’t think anyone is saying that. I’m saying he gave me just enough for me to hate him, because of who he is and what he gave us, which was not much.
I’m not telling you that you have to feel the same way, you can feel the way you want to feel about him, that’s fine. Thats what I meant by speak for yourself. :)
If I may, you can indeed put it all on his shoulders, precisely because of what happened the last two weeks. It was THE must-win game, and when they needed their starter to be great, he wasn’t even merely bad, he was horrible. Overall, yes, he’s a classy guy and a pro, and while I certainly don’t think you can pin the season or team-wide collapse on him, that game–that one, must-win game–is on him more than anyone else. That game killed the season, and he, more than any other single player, killed that game. In my opinion.
Outside of his first year here? He had a losing record the first two seasons with the Mets, was .500 during his third, and posted winning seasons only in his last two years. Not a hell of a lot to hang your hat on. Total Met stats: 61 wins, 56 losses and a 3.98 ERA. Boy, looks a lot like Steve Trachsel’s stats during his time with the Mets: 66-59, 4.12 ERA.
I’m not arguing how well he did here. He had two good years here, and two mediocre year here. He also came up big in the 2006 playoffs.
I’m stating that you can’t blame us not making the playoffs on him.
I have to admit, when you can compare his numbers to Steve-0 Trachsels, you have to realize while maybe not a met killer, he sure was not a Met helper.
Besides you can’t compare the stats of a #5 pitcher to Glavine as he was ask to be our Ace and go up against other aces. That takes a lot of wins away because he was just not an ace. If you put him against other #5’s an under 4.00 ERA would net 15 wins a year.
Please, numbers schmumbers. Everyone knows that the biggest Met killers were Benitez and Duquette. Pfffft.
lol – I never thought to put Duquette there. He easily my #1 now.
I have a tough spot for Kenny Rogers, but when he threw that ball, my heart just sank, I didn’t feel angry, just heart breakingly upset.
However, the Brian Jordan incident ANGERED ME. I will never forget how pissed I was that day. Immediately after the game the whole family went to a tux shop to get measured for my sister’s wedding. It was a very long and VERY QUIET ride.
Funny how you can remember exactly where you were and what you were doing when Brian Jordan hit that home run. I was at work, and luckily at the time, I worked unloading trucks on the docks in my college days. Needless to say I had plenty of things to throw around and slam.
…and I was definitely more angry at Benitez than Brian Jordan. Definitely.
Nobody put a garbage can through their windshield over a Rico Carty moment? For shame…
Which Brian Jordan homer against the Mets are we talking about… there were so many times he killed us.
Can’t really be mad at something I always knew was going to happen, as was the case with the many Benitez moments….
I will despise Tom Glavine always and forever:
#1: Final performance as a Met proved what I knew all along…that he has no cajones;
#2: He has no cajones;
#3: He was and always will be an Atlanta Brave;
#4: He was and always will be an Atlanta Brave;
yadier molina?
i HATE that guy
easily the worst moment of my life
Not bad…but I think Jordan was more heartbreaking
the jordan hr was awful but considering this was game 7 of the nlcs and yadier molina hit like 210 during the season to me it was worse.
when was the jordan hr?
i think i’m too young to remember tht one
molina’s hr might have been worse for me cuz i was at the game
You know, if Pelfrey hadn’t stunk all year, or if Maine didn’t collapse down the stretch, we would have made the playoffs too. That 1 game we missed the playoffs by could have come at any other point of the season. Just because we lost it in the final game doesn’t mean it was his fault.
See my post above – again I don’t like Glavine as a Met, never did, but be realistic. He isn’t a Met killer because of the game. Without him 2006 would have been a completely different season.
Pelfrey, Maine and whoever else was on the staff don’t have 300 wins and aren’t “future hall of famers”. Glavine fits that description. He’s the guy you have to depend on in that crucial situation. He didn’t even show up.
It’s true — over 162 games, lots of ways the Mets screwed up.
But to seal the deal in that one inning of that last game, that adds something special that I will never forget about Glavine.
One funny thing about the Mets-killer article: was it just me, or did a lot of those people play for the Braves?
So the Mets collapse is blamed on Pelfry stinking all year and John Maine’s second half? You are kidding right? Nobody is depending on Pelfry for anything, and the opposite could be said about John Maine. He is part of the reason it was so close during our collapse and please see John Maine’s last start of 2007. He showed up and he showed up big time. Tom Glavine is a disgrace because of his performance, his lack of any guts, and his ridiculous attitude after the season.
Re-read what I wrote. I was using them as examples of why you can’t blame the whole thing on Tommy. You are seriously overreacting here – I understand you want to have Glavine as the scapegoat, but take a look at Ollie’s last start of the season against the fish, take a look at any of Pelfreys starts, take a look at Maine’s 2nd half (excluding the start you just mentioned).
I am not blaming any of those guys; I am just stating that the same flawed logic can be applied to them.
I still don’t get the whole attitude thing. Did you want him to take responsibility for the collapse? Did you want him to say “I’m devastated and I blame the entire crumbling of this team on myself”? Or how about “I’m so ashamed right now I don’t even want to talk to you guys.” We have no idea what he was really thinking. No player in major league baseball will say something like that to the media. Remeber how crazy it got when Delgado gave an explanation of why they collapsed? It’s a lose lose.
Rube Walker.
This guy tortured me as a child. Every time he waddled to the mound, something bad happened.
I know its hard to blame a coach for the happening on the field, but I did blame him (and hated him) as a youth.
Art Howe was a Met killer.
Also, every rookie pitcher who has faced the Mets for the first time has destroyed us. ie: Kyle Davies, Kuo (on the dodgers), Joel Hanrahan…
i remember brandon webb made either his 1st or 2nd start of his career against us in shea and pitched an absolute gem (may have been a CG not sure). at least he turned out to be the real deal.
It was hist first. It was part of a double header that saw the Mets get embarrassed by Randy Johnson and then shown-up by Webb. I remember this because I was actually at Shea and say through both games.
No, Napes22, stop defending Glavine…a “future hall of famer” with 300 wins, that was the most un-clutch game in the worst of times, you cannot defend him…with the crowd going nuts, the team pumped up, the future hall of famer goes to the mound against the lowly Marlins and…gives up 7 runs in a third of an inning…you cannot continue to defend him, it was arguably the most un-clutch performance in the history of the game
Amen.
To cap off the worst collapse in the history of the game, no less.
Take a look at Ollie’s performance in game one of that series.
Also, I don’t think Glavine’s not getting into the hall. He is a fringe HOF’er if anything – if he does get in, it will be similar to Gossage. He’ll get in because there were no other big names on the ballot. His career stats are not overwhelming. He had 4 or 5 very good years, and his win total is a product of the team he pitched on. During one of his 22 win seasons his WHIP was 1.36
what about pat burrell, i mean he never had as large an impact as jordan, but when he comes up i squirm. mo vaughn also took alot of our money, he should be considered too
I cant were twenty-something posts in and no one has mentioned Larry Jones. The man named his child Shea for Christs sake….
I think that qualifies you as a Met killer…
Others….Pat Burrell for sure, Benitez,Brian Jordan, Kenny Rogers, anyone remember Doug Sisk(Man I hated him), and in limited “Met Killing Opportunities” Im throwing Jeter on the list. That 1st pitch HR ended the 2000 Series…
When I was a kid I used to hate Andy Van Slyke.
From what I remember Sisk was actually good until hitters realized his sinker broke out of the strike zone – then everyone walked.
One of the memories I’ll always take away from Shea was the crowd chanting “Doug Sisk SUCKS!” over and over again when he got called in when I was a kid….used to sit in the RF Boxes right behind the guys with that huge “Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaallllly” sign….
Those were the days….
how about the driver of Duaner Sanchez’s wild taxi ride..
Someone already said Mo Vaughn.
(I assume that’s what he’s up to these days…)
napes22:
Outside of his first year here? Glavine had a losing record during his first two seasons with the Mets, was .500 during his third, and posted winning seasons only in his last two years. Not a hell of a lot to hang your hat on. Total Met stats: 61 wins, 56 losses and a 3.98 ERA. Boy, looks a lot like Steve Trachsel’s stats during his time with the Mets: 66-59, 4.12 ERA.
Trachsel benefited from monster offense in his last year as a Met – he had something like an ERA over 5 in 2006 – and his performance in the 2006 NLCS was pretty frickking “un-clutch” if you ask me.
Glavine was pretty poor when he came to the Mets in 2003, but so was the whole team. I remember Tommy losing a lot of 2-1, 3-2 ballgames during his first year.
In 2004, he was 7-2 before he had his unfortunate cab ride around the All Star break. And you can argue that the entire team spiraled down the toilet in the second half of that season.
Glavine….
Mota..
Schoenweiss
and Randolph.. (who is a Yankee anyway..)
And what’s O’Malley doing in the HOF anyway..
Jimmy Qualls, I burnt every one of my Chicago Cubs baseball cards after that hit.
Wasn’t John Franco the one who gave up the Brian Jordan grand slam? If I remember it correctly, Benitez started the inning and created the mess, but it was Franco who hung a changeup on an 0-2 count that Jordan crushed.
Nah Jordan hit 2 home runs that game. One to tie it, one to win it. He hit the tying one off Benitez in the 9th… that’s how I remember it.
I just looked and there were 2 different games within a week of each other. One at Shea and one at Turner the following week. It was the Shea game that Benitez gave up the homerun and blew the save, it was the Turner game that Franco gave up a homer.
.500 ball, June-September; & you want to blame one guy? Ridiculous.
Jimmy Qualls…how great was that game? I was 12 and my dad let me stay up to watch the game because of what Seaver was trying to do. I remember going to bed afterwards and practically crying myself to sleep. A little dink single from the lefty that dropped into left center. Even Agee couldn’t come up with that one!