Mets OF Carlos Gomez has a bigger ceiling than Red Sox 
OF Jacoby Ellsbury or Yankees OF Melky Cabrera, explains Dugout Central.
…thanks to Tommy Mac for the link…
Dugout Central, created by former Yankee Mike Pagliarulo, is a place “where fans and scouts come together to discuss our national pastime.”
According to the report…
“With improved technique at the plate he could be a 30–plus home run guy.”
According to ESPN.com’s Jayson Stark, during an on-air spot during the Winter Meetings, Gomez may be more attractive to the Twins than Ellsbury.
…as i said in late november, i am very impressed with the perceived value of gomez…teams seem to really like him – much more than they liked Lastings Milledge…one independent scout told me after the season that people view gomez as capable of becoming Jimmy Rollins in the outfield one day…
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Johan is coming. I am very confident in this.
Gomez, Mulvey, and 2 of Humber, Pelfrey, Heilman, Guerra
And then we sign Johan to a 5 year extension for $100 mil, with a 6th year player option and a 7th year mutual/team option….
booyA
Can we insure him if it is a player option in the 6th year? I am for it but that is something to keep in mind
Our rotation could use the facelift.
Santana
Pedro
Maine
Perez
Everyone else.
Put El Duque in the Pen and in a short series we will be dangerous.
El Duque will start the season as a starter. Omar has said this several times.
I’m not sure why so many people think El Duque would be effective in the pen. Whenever he has trouble, it tends to be in the first innning. Then he figures it out and calms down. That’s great for a starter but I don’t seeing it as making for an effective reliever.
Plus he takes forever to warm up before starts.
If the Mets could find a GM that is in love with Gomez as some of these scouts they would be remiss not to move him if the team in question has a top of the rotation kind of pitcher available. Gomez will never be a tenth of the player that Rollins is
“Gomez will never be a tenth of the player that Rollins is”
If you are basing that solely on the limited time he came up to the big leagues as a raw 19 year old, then I accept your judgement for what it is, but if you have seen him play amongst his peers and you have a history of judging young, unpolished players, can you please elaborate as to why you believe he will not be as good as some professional scouts think he will?
You have to like Gomez’s tools — he runs like a deer and has plus range and instincts in the field. These are abilities that are constants, they are not subject to slumps and off-years.
As for his hitting, go back and look at his June numbers, the only month in which he started regularly. It’s not unreasonable to expect him to develop into a player that can do that over a whole season (.299/.350/.420). Those numbers, with speed and plus D, = Jimmy Rollins (who did not hit more than 14 HRs in his 1st five seasons).
So it’s not really that much of a stretch.
and greg jefferies is the next teddie ballgame, in case you don’t remember.
What’s a boy to do?!?! I just found out that I am getting Transfered to Minneapolis for work. If Santana is still there I will grab him and fedex him to Shea. The first thing I did was see if I can get SNY in Minnie… Dish Network has the best deal for SNY.. for any other out of town Met’s Fans
He will probably be one of those former mets who performs well….so why don’t the twins bite????? I am not so sure they plan on moving Santana….
They need to move him, he will not sign a extension once the season starts. They can’t afford to offer him a contract after this season. They are just gonna lose him and get nothing if they don’t trade him. Plus he openly stated that he is upset with the organization. I wouldn’t want my most valuable player playing for me if he didn’t want to be playing for me. I’d trade him for everything i could get.
Not another post about Santana and the worth of Ellsbury, Gomez, and Melky. Pass.
Not another comment about not wanting posts that you read and comment on.
giddy up! i will sell metsmerized.com to you for $25,000.00. deal?
Agreed!!! The posts about being tired of seeing Santana posts are getting older than the Santana posts themselves! If you don’t like it, DON’T POST!!!!
they don’t need to trade him….until July when the realize they have no shot of catching the Tigers, they might be able to get more in July though so be prepared for him to stay put, I magine what NYY or BOS will be willing to give up for Johan if its close July 30…
Unless the Twins have a defaulted subprime loan on the Metrodome thast come due they can afford to wait and see if someone will give them a deal better than the Mets can offer without Reyes, and they can wait until July 31st to do so
wow…tough to weed through that mumbo jumbo…
Johan stated that he would not accept a trade during the season.
Some people refuse to either believe Johan about that or are just oblivious to him saying it.
Do you have a reference for this? I had suspected this was the case but I haven’t found any definitive statement from him….
you will not get more for him in july because you still have to negotiate a contract and since the trade deadline is a hectic time for GMs its probably unlikely you could negotiate said contract before the time runs out on the deadline for you to announce the trade and no GM will trade alot for him w.o a signature on an extension. therefore he would be a 3 month rental and would therefore cost ALOT less than now where he would be given the extension and guaranteed to be on your team past this year….oh and he said he will nix any mid season trade. youd think after like 2000 santana posts we’d all be on the same page by now.
too bad its not up to Johan, once the season starts he loses his full no trade clause because he didnt finish in the top 3 of the cy young voting.
If the Twins want to risk getting a better haul for him at the trade deadline they may make out ok. Its not likely that the Yanks or Sox will pull out to a big lead on the other, not is it likely that either of them will have a playoff spot secure with the Tigers and Indians likely to be right there.
He loses the full no-trade clause but he still has the right to refuse to sign with the team that trades for him. So the team thats trading for him is still going to want the window to try and sign him. If they dont get the window they’re not going to trade much for a 3 month rental. So with that in mind, they’ll get more by trading him now than they will by trying to trade him at the deadline.
They won’t give up as much for half a season.
The Twins will get less value for him if they wait till the trading deadline. It’s more of a risk for them if they wait.
agree, the longer they wait the more desperate to sell they become. they will be guaranteed to end up with less than they wouldve gotten in november at this point. they got greedy asking for 2 stud prospects from teams and it killed them. simple math, dont trade him and get a draft pick (1 player) or take a 3-4 player deal with 1 stud prospect as the center piece. time to s*** or get off the pot twinks.
but what they also get is 3 months+ to figure out if they are a legit playoff contender. If so, they might decide to keep him. If not, they might still get better value than 2 draft picks.
Say they could only get GOmez and Mulvey at the deadline (or Melky and Kennedy, or whatever). That is still probably ebtter than the 2 picks will be.
Now, would the Mets give up that much at the deadline, with no window? Probably, if they really need him (especially after last year!), plus you have 3 months to work on signing him.
Calculated risk by the Twins. At least the GM builds up good will points for trying to win with him, especially if they make another contract offer to him.
u know, if we get Johan, you gotta LOVE the Mets chances to win it ALL this year. Now before you all call me r-tarded, hear me out.
Last year, we had Shawn Green and Jose Valentin friggin up our lineup/speed/defense (the stache wasnt as sure as he was last year with the knee injury). We had a very good, but inconsistent Glavine and an 0-7 Pelfrey and we still did pretty good. Not to mention Alou’s injury, Endy’s injury, and Wright’’s slump, and inconsistency with our # 2 batting order slot
Now with a full year of Castillo and L-Millz, oh wait we traded him damnit!!!…anyway, Church (who is a career .340 hitter i think at shea and hits doubles) who i think will surprise people, we have an upgrade in defense in 2 positions, along with more consistency in our lineup. While Schneider is a hole at our 8 spot, at least our lineup is FULLY settled AND it makes our defense up the middle, which EVERY other “analyst” says is VERY important, excellent (schneid, reyes, castillo, beltran)….
Now, if we get Johan, obviously that strengthens our rotation, with Pedro an upgrade over Glavine. I think Maine and OP are ready to taek the next step and be stronger (especially Maine). I am TOTALLY for either signing a “veteran” to compete for the 5th spot or letting Humber/Pelfrey/Mulvey fight it out with them (barring ONE of them stays in a poss. trade for Johan). Move El Duque in the pen, this can keep him LESS injury prone i hope, and he can simply DOMINATE for an inning or 2. With Dirty Sanchez back and a healthy showenwies and perhaps a youngster like Smith or Collazo stepping up in ST, i really like the Mets chances
Of course, again, this all goes with us getting Johan. Which, if there is a God, will happen
Well, I pretty much agree with you. But I think they should use Duque as #5, and get every pitch possible out of his arm before he breaks down. I just worry that he won’t handle the pen well (warming up, etc.)
I think Church will be surprisingly good, and schneider will do at least what Loduca did (not much admitedly).
Key is getting the right RH bat to share time with Church, and use Castro to spell Schneider at the right times.
The right hand bat is named Easley. That’s the current plan at least.
dangerous plan IMO. I was hoping to see Mench maybe, who can also back up 1B, and rakes lefties, with power.
i forgot to say add Mench…he’d be awesome for us…
Mench has never played first base. A bit risky to play him there. Easley’s the backup to Delgado, for the moment.
agree with stick guy about el duque, let him start for as long as he can (people forget for a period last yr he was hands down our best pitcher, he went head to head with some tough pitchers) even if he completely breaks down in the 1st half a rotation of santana, pedro, maine, ollie, duque for 80+ games is sick. then you slot in the 5 starter when duque goes down then figure if he comes back he can go to the pen like he did the last week of the season this year.
Easley is the backup for both Delgado and Church. So who plays the other position against lefties when both of them are not getting it done against LHP’s?
Ramon Castro at 1B? ;)
Endy is good against lefties, but he should be playing LF 2-3 days a week, so playing him 5 days a week isnt realistic.
LH starters will be an issue with Delgado, Church, Scheider 5,7,8 or 6,7,8.
somehow the word “awesone” and mench just do not gibe for me.
Agreed, Zeile. Duque is definitely starting the year in the rotation, barring injury. Pelfrey/Humber both need additional time in AAA, the more the better.
If I had to guess, I’d say Duque will never see the bullpen. He’ll start until he runs out of gas.
This is what makes a pickup of Freddy Garcia intriguing, since he should be getting up to speed as Duque fades. Or maybe it’s unrealistic to expect the timing to be perfect. Wish I understood more about Garcia’s probable recovery and rehab schedule, as well as the likelihood of regaining all of his lost strength.
In any event, we’re still one starter short. And a Kyle Lohse will NOT fit the bill.
two starters short, el duque should be in the pen and pelfrey/mulvey/humber are not ready.
the mets rotation is a rebuilt pedro and two young guys who faded in the 2nd half.
it’s scary.
Nate, Lefties will not be a problem because of schneider. the move for schneider allows willie to go with a true platoon if he wants too. castro can hit and he will get more playing time this year. especially against lefties.
I don’t know if you read the comments on that Dugout Central article but all the Twins fan seem to be fairly high on Gomez….I’d love to see this deal happen. I’ll definitely be somewhat jaded if we have to lose a guy like FMart, but I’ll get over it when I remember we have the best pitcher in baseball
Corner Outfielder is the deepest position in the majors. Shut down ace is the rarest. Plus Gomez is unproven. The red sox are willing to trade ellsbury and lester, while the yanks are willing to trade melky and hughs. In both circumstance the outfielders aren’t the main chip in the deal. Thats why Gomez should be traded if we can land Santana
might be deep, but still not that easy to get a good one. Otherwise we wouldn’t have seen so much of Green, and heard so much noise about Church.
Gomez isn’t a corner OF though. Martinez is, but I really doubt he goes.
We have Beltran signed for three more years
well, if they like Gomez so much, they should grab him. Omar should leak word that he is about to move him in another deal to get the Twins off the pot.
Make it Gomez and Mulvey as the core 2 guys, and 2 more that aren’t Pelfrey, F Mart or Guerra, and it is a good deal all around, and shouldn’t wipe out the depth the Mets need, even if Humber goes too.
Posts keep assuming that they want a slew of pitchers, but I thought the Twins were loaded with ML ready talent, but they needed bats? Wonder who the Twins would want if they could pick 2 as noted above? Gotay? Carp? Neise?
I guess we will find out if they make a deal!
I think the Young trade balanced thier needs. They gave away thier abundance of pitching there to some extent.
Torii Hunter also needs to be replaced on the defensive side of the ball. Young will give them much of the offensive production, but its obvious that the Twins are looking at strong defensive CF’s and Gomez has an advantage with his speed on their turf.
Oh hell, it’s time to be honest. I just don’t see us getting Johan, and that’s okay. I would accept a pretty good year next year if it means watching the emergence of Gomez and maybe Pelfrey pitching like an adult. The scouts may not like our kids, but of all of them one or two has to put it all together. I’m looking in your direction Mulvey…
This guy is just such a freakin’ risk.
Trade him for Santana. Gomez, Mulvey, Heilman, Guerra, Gotay.
They might even accept the same deal without Guerra, but with Phil Hughes on the table, we have to up the ante a little more than Mulvey, Gomez, a 30 year old reliever and a failed prospect.
somebody said something good about gomez? metsblog is on the case!
Who is Johan Santana?
Isn’t he that Latin-American guitarist?
or is that Carlos Beltran?
is that the same pags that got crushed by FJM?
maybe he’s a decent scout but i wouldnt trust much of what he says.
what he is saying could be true, of course, but i still wouldnt listen to him.
That FJM column made Pags look incomprhensible. But since I’m a Mets fan, I will say his analysis here is spot-on.
Wow, a Mets prospect getting praise. This is a first.
The guy even mentions that the Mets rush their young guys.
benson is done…..absolutely the guy from yankee magazine said they wouldnt sign benson for free!! and i agree. Not even wroth a spot on the roster as an inning eater!! alothough we absolutly need a long man im hopeing we can afford to put elduge in that spot considering we get a guy like colon and ace such as blanton or santana. Santana is the best pitcher period! but blanton is almost garanteed to stay heathy and give u 32 starts 220 innings. hes also cheaper. ill leave that desision to omar though. if santana is off the table we’re not done just yet i like blanton. If possible i’d like a right handed bat to be th ultimate utility man mostly as a right handed 1st basemen to take some at bats away from delgato and possibly be an EMERGANCY catcher to let castro pinch hit. The only guy i know of thats even close to that is eli marrero but we had him and it didnt work out to well. Can anybody think of someone?
Brandon Inge???
would someone comment back already???????
sure but hes to way expensive and i think has a no trade clause so wouldnt aprove to be a bench player
Of course I want Johan. He is a true ace, and possibly THE ace to have at the top of your rotation.
But part of me can’t help fantasizing about a Gomez, Beltran, FMart outfield, and a Wright, Reyes infield, with a Guerra, Pelfrey, Humber, Maine, Perez pitching staff. If they pan out (yes, I know the history of our “can’t-miss prospects, as I said it is a fantasy), that would be one incredible core of talent to build around.
Still, if we can get Johan at a reasonable cost (any deal involving both Gomez and FMart is not reasonable as far as I am concerned), it has to be done. The odds are that maybe 1-2 of the above mentioned prospects work out, and in our wildest dreams 3-4 of them do.
At this point I just want to hear the announcement that a Santana deal is done, one way or the other. I need to set some kind of expectations for next season, because right now I am flip-flopping from hope to despair, when in reality the team will likely be pretty much as talented as last year. Maybe a little better at the plate and on defense, with less consistency from the pitching staff, but a contender in the NL regardless.
I have always felt that Gomez had a high ceiling and should be considered an attractive prospect. I saw too many comments in the beginning of the Santana talks on this site about how Gomez is a joke and who cares to get rid of him, and how he will never be anything, etc. I am not saying don’t include him in a trade, but don’t disregard his talent and his attractability.
But beyond Gomez they want an immediate productive bat. someone primed for immediate impact on their roster (thats why Melky and Coco Crisp are key pieces in the deal from the Sox and Yanks).
Several reporters have also re-iterated this fact as well.
Im starting to sour on this whole Santana thing ….
Here’s a few of observations (feel free to ‘blast’ me as needed :)
1.) the more the Twins wait, the more I hink it gives teams to actually contemplate and digest what it will cost (in addition to the traded players) to sign Santana.
This, in turn, gives momentum to people within the Yankees, Red Sox and Met’s organizations to “build their case” with the other foks that it doesnt make sense to do this deal.
The cost of both players to be traded and the fact that the deal Santana is seeking practically will be uninsurable are big factors in causing teams to hesitate, think twice or look elsewhere for something more reasonable.
I’m not saying the Twins are greedy — I personally think they are playing it “right” to drag their feet a bit and try and drive up the price — but the more they wait and the more we get closer to pitchers and catchers reporting then the more I think the Mets, Yanks and Sox will all say “to hell with it, even though this guy is arguably the #1pitcher in baseball he isnt worth a 6-7 year deal PLUS a boatload of prospects.”
You need to go 5 years here and offer like 24 million/ per year (so you can at least get the insurance for him) — no way do I do this deal without some sort of insurable deal.
2.) Since the Mets will need to overpay (based on the fact that their offer seemingly does not have as much frontline talent as compared to the Yankees and Red Sox) this makes point #1 even more of a stumbling block then it is for the Yankees and Red Sox.
3.) My guess is that the Twins NEED at least 1 “real” frontline position player in order to make the deal work for them. We would need to step up the offer in order to better compete with Melky Cabrera and Co Co Crisp’s offense.
Over the weekend (when the Mets obtained Angel Pagan again) I was seriously wondering if Ryan Church would soon be offered along with Gomez, Pelfry and perhaps few other AA pitchers. (5 for 1) or Church, Gomez, Mulvey, and a few other AA pitchers, or Church, Heilmann and 1 other prospect.
I do think offering Church matches up with the Twins needs a bit better (and matches up with Melky’s and Co Co’s production/ perceived value better).
Of couse this then would create a need for a more reliable bat for the Mets in rightfield – perhaps Luis Gonzalez or Kevin Mench? I’m not too crazy about Gonzalez given his age. But I cant see how the Mets have the top tier talent to get this deal done without a hitter like Church in the deal,
Gotay is a nice bat, but no where near as productive as what the Red Sox and Yankees are offering. And Gomez (although a “higher ceiling” player then Melky and Coco) just isnt going to give them the production out of the shoot that I think the Twins really want in this deal.
The Twins dont want just pitching in exchange — they want a halfway decent, proven outfielder or productive bat (it seems) – and Church is the only guy I can think of that you can package
in order to compete with the production that Melky and Coco Crisp can be expected to produce.
At least if we packaged Church in the deal then all the Omar bashers would see that essentially he swapped Milledge for Church which in turn allowed him to get Santana, which I would think might change people’s opinion about the Milledge deal.
Anyone have any thoughts on this?
I think that Co Co is dead wood with the bat, and Melky is mediocre at best. Gotay might not play defense at their level (but 2B is a whole different world than CF), but he probably can out hit them both right now!
Don’t sell short the value of a young, cheap MI with some pop! Just don’t let him hit RH.
And, I thought Mench was listed as an OF/1B? Or did I dream that up?
Mike Pagliarulo should not be telling anyone about who is a good hitter.
can Ms Benson pitch?
“Sign Bartolo Colon or bring back Benson’s wife. Do it Omar.”
Fixed it for ya! ; )
Colon has missed two starts and they are being very Hush, Hush about him, so I would be worried. Benson is rehabbing as well. Not the ideal situation for our #5 guys
Why don’t you shut up.
“Bring back mrs. benson”
ok now thats an offseason move i can live with.
Is there any way that we could end up trading Gomez, Heilman, Pelfrey, and Gotay for Santana.?
And then trade F-Mart, Humber, and Mulvey for Blanton and Street?
That would set us up w/
Santana
Pedro
Blanton
Maine
Perez
W/ a bullpen with EL Duque, Wise, Street, Feliciano, and Wagner… not bad i don’t think.
If we could resign Perez, which should be very possible, we would have a good, young rotation that could lead this team for years.
By the way, the reason that people keep mentioning El Duque for the pen is the fact that he knows how to get big outs. I will never forget that guy coming in against 3/4/5 of the Red Sox order with the bases loaded in the playoffs and getting three outs w/o allowing a run. Plus, it would limit the number of innings he throws, which would keep him fresh for October.
It’s okay to limit your farm system when 4 out of 5 of your starters are under 30.
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