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In a post to the great Phillies blog Beer Leaguer, Phillies 
fan Jason Weitzel writes…
“There’s no way to sugarcoat the strong possibility that Santana, the top prize, will be a Met next season, and possibly the next six. He would swing the balance of division power back over to the Mets. Head-to-head, it would be a nightmare. Maybe I’ll take up gardening this summer. Or woodworking. Have a nice day. It’s been real.”
…oh, man, that’s rich…i encourage you to read the reader comments that follow jason’s post…
…i’m getting excited, and i don’t want to be…at least not yet…
Man some of those comments are priceless.. one guy compares Johan to Victor Zambrano… I mean wow..
Someone needs to remind the phils that they didn’t win a single post season game, and were about as relevent to the baseball world as the pet rock…
Some great comments by Phillies fans, like this one…
Not only is Santana an amazing pitcher, he is an amazing LEFT-HANDED pitcher. Sit down Mr. Howard, Mr. Utley, goodbye J-Roll’s power from the left side of the plate, looks like we rely on Helms instead of Dobbs against him (yikes!), thus leaving our only hope as none other then the Met killer himself, Pat Burrell!
He he he.
pretty sure the Phils had the last TWO MVP’s and a good shot at three in a row with Utley….and a division title this past season….seems relevant to me…Mets weren’t even relevant in their own town in September……but yes, the thought of the mets getting Santana scares the hell out of me
Big Deal.. MVPs can come from last place clubs.. winting in October is what counts.. and the Phils did as much of that last year as the Mets did.
How many MVPs did the Yankees win from 1996 to 2000? I’d like to have that success in Flushing while winning ZERO MVPs.
every regular season award means absolutely nothing just like all stars. pennants and WS rings are what count. niether team got one last year so basically we’re going to debate who was less irrelevant.
i can really only take this roller coaster one more time…
i don’t know about Omar, but the Twins organization has depleted my will….just back the truck up and get this done
If I were a Phillies fan, I’d be more upset about that hat.
I was thinking the same thing!
it is god aweful
He sounds like a lot of the commenters who’ve joined on here recently, giving up before the season’s begun.
Time to shoot up Chad Durbin with some B-12 and Lidocaine.
That was the reply of one Phillie fan. :lol:
I heard that fan was sued by Roidger Clemens.
I wasn’t aware that the balance of power had shifted to the phillies. I still see 2007 as a total mental meltdown. If we played with any balls/heart, we win the east. The Phillies didn’t win the east, we lost the east…bifg difference!
word
this is such an awful way of looking at it. the mets played under .500 for 2/3 of the season. we just weren’t that good. if the season lasted another 10 games the braves would’ve passed us too. if you view it as a bad september you’re missing the big picture of what happened last season- it was a poorly built team without enough depth. imagine maine doesn’t have that all-star first half that nobody saw coming. we’d have been in second all year.
Which is why I don’t understand why we’re suddenly in “win now” mode. I’m not sure we’re constructed to win now, with or without Santana.
“Phillies didn’t win, Mets lost”. That’s funny. Phils won almost every day in the last weeks of the season. Even if Mets didn’t lose almost every day, Phils still would have been in at least a wild card playoff.
But if you guys want to keep bragging about losing, great.
Like how you guys are bragging about losing in the post season?
I guess there’s no point in arguing this point with a Phils fan.. no city in the world knows more about losing then Philadelphia..
Number of WS won by Phils since I started watching baseball: 1 (28 years ago)
Number of WS won by Mets in that same time period: 1 (21 years ago)
Yeah, big difference.
thats not true, the rockies won 14 of their last 15 regular season games and would have been ahead of the phillies by like three games.
“Comment by da burg’s greatest mets fan
2008-01-10 16:51:31
thats not true, the rockies won 14 of their last 15 regular season games and would have been ahead of the phillies by like three games.”
Check the standings. After 162 gms, Phils, SD, and Col all had the same record, 1 game behind the best record in the NL. Mets were just a game off that pace.
One Philly phanatic says that the phillies should answer the santana trade by signing Joe Crede. I hope santana delivers loss 10 280
sorry loss # 10 028, eventually loss 10 280
plus, don’t they have to trade for crede? he’s under contract with chicago
Thanks White Meat…I mean, exactly when did the balance of power come to rest squarely in Philadephia?
Two bad weeks does not a season make, and for a team that was swept out of the playoffs and lost some of their heart & soul in Rowand, I wouldn’t carve ‘favorites’ into stone, Santana or not.
oooh. wordER
again with this ‘two bad weeks’ nonsense. UNDER .500 FOR FOUR MONTHS makes a bad season. we were just lucky the phils and braves stunk most of the year too.
I think the genertal feel is what you said about the Phils not playing well either.. they didn’t even win 90 games… I can’t say I’m too scared of them.. even if they did add Brad Lidge.. who I can’t wait to start calling the White Armando…
I have been one of ths most vocal about the mets poor off season two years in a row.. but the fan part of me says bring in the Phils.. I am not afraid.
This one is my favorite…
Posted by: lekh tizdayen | Thursday, January 10, 2008 at 01:38 PM
I’m going to cry. Tough guys don’t cry…well, Santana is awesome and he’ll make the Phils his bitch!
I was just logging on to say that! Good call, that was far and away the best comment from the tremblng Phillies fans.
We should probably remember though that this deal is nowhere near done yet.
But, man, I SO want it to be.
This actually seems like real news as opposed to all the speculation and rhetoric thats been floating around. MLB.com has it on the home page….Oh man, this would really heal a lot of the hurt from last year. Just for the shot in the arm it would give the team and the fans its worth it…..its what we need…..Do it Omar…..
Man, Im actually nervous…..
haha I just went to the MLB website…how come on the Johan to the Mets headline it has a picture of him batting? The guy’s had 31 at-bats in his career. I thought that was funny.
Also, I LOVE this post. What happened to their “team to beat” attitude? What pansies….I can’t wait till the Mets leave them in their dust next year, ala ‘06.
awesome comment
Some one wake me up when we make this trade
I got a boner
If I had to list some of my favorite things, hearing Phillies Phans cry, whine and give up would be right at the top. Ahhhhh music to my ears.
for someone reason I get more satisfaction from Braves fans whining and crying.
Those poor deluded fools thinks Glavine is going to win them the division.
As a Mets fan living in the ATL, I can attest to this sad fact….Looking forward to seeing Johan at the Sunday game at Turner going against a washed up glavine
ah, those comments were good fun at the end of a hopeful day.
Whoever was rating the farm system for mets prospects seemed to lack proffesionalism and baseball knoledge. F-mart is an A prospect
John Sickels? He’s been a minor league analyst for the last 12 years or so.
Why do we have to keep hearing F Mart’s name in these talks? Substitute a proven Major League outfielder-Ryan Church and see where that takes us. We’ll never miss him. (We never knew him).
What i noitced is the Phillie posters are much more civilized towards each other than we are in here…somewhat shocking. They are, however, much more pessimistic, which is always good to see!
I think it’s because they are all pretty much on the same page. Mets fan base is very polarized.
ya….I bet if you go back and read posts from May on both sites, you’d find quite the opposite. 3/4 of the Phils fans screaming to fire Manuel, some people saying Howard was a fluke, others saying to give him time to come around, etc.
Meanwhile, this site was full of people with hope and optimism about the World Series that was surely ours in 4 months….oy vey.
It could also be that they seem to be in a state of collective shock with this Johan to the Mets talk
Not to jinx anything, but hypothetically lets say this thing goes through(oh man)…..
Whats the over/under on replies to the “Mets Aquire Sanana” posting on this site?
500? 1,000? More?
Well I would owe Omar an apology and at least 20 of you guys as well..
So put me down for 30 comments by myself.. thanks.
I vow to post every five minutes for 24 hours straight
I think Matt would turn off the comments section real quick.
Soooo, what you guys are saying is take the over. Gotcha….
Another question(while my heart is palpatating over this)….Since 1962, where would this rank on “All-Time Mets news stories”…..
IMO, it would be….
1.1969 WS Champs
2.1986 WS Champs
3. Trading for Piazza
4. Johan
5. 1973 WS
6. Signing Pedro
7. 07 Collapse(cant all be good)
The Kazmir and Ryan trades would be on there too, although no one knew how big the Ryan trade was when it went down….
How about “Mets trade Seaver”?
Seaver trade must be #3. Seaver was the franchise in every respect. He dwarfed every other player the Mets ever had.
He was a 1st ballot HOF player and is one of the top 10 pitchers in the history of the game.
You also forgot the Sid Finch story which as a story maybe one of the great all time tales.
How about Mets get Viola?
as we discussed, it took the yanks and sox (and every other team in baseball) to drop out of the santana race for us to even be considered.
If this trade gets made everyone on this site has to shut up if Omar doesn’t make anotehr trade until 2011 when we have another prospect.
go re-sign freddy garcia phils.
reading all those posts is a happy ending to a miserable work day
i was 50-50 on this trade earlier in the day but as of now… 65-35… i just think we would be giving up a LOT…
Here’s the dilemma, as I see it. We trade by Gomez and Martinez. Who takes Alou’s spot in the outfield after next year? Who gets called up after next year, when Endy is in the line-up? What other outfielders do we have in the minors, that can do the job in 2 to 3 years?
It’s called free agency. This isn’t 1974 anymore, for the most part the minors aren’t nearly as important as they used to be.
Was Carl Crawford ever resigned? He has a 2009 option after the 08 season, sign him to play an OF position
angel pagan?
bench player written all over him
These are all outfielders who will be free agents after next year
Bobby Abreu NYY
Moises Alou NYM
Garrett Anderson * LAA
Rocco Baldelli * TB
Willie Bloomquist SEA
Emil Brown KC
Pat Burrell PHI
Endy Chavez NYM
Carl Crawford * TB
Adam Dunn CIN
Jim Edmonds SD
Juan Encarnacion STL
Cliff Floyd CHC
Brian Giles * SD
Shawn Green NYM
Ken Griffey Jr. * CIN
Vladimir Guerrero * LAA
Raul Ibanez SEA
Jacque Jones DET
Mark Kotsay OAK
Rob Mackowiak SD
Kevin Mench MIL
Jason Michaels * CLE
Craig Monroe MIN
Jay Payton BAL
Scott Podsednik CWS
Manny Ramirez * BOS
Juan Rivera LAA
Rondell White MIN
what does the * mean?
Player has an option for one more year.
“the reader comments that follow jason’s post”
maybe it would be worh including FMart…what a treat it would be to see the rest of the NL East sick to their stomach!
OFers are a dime a dozen.
#1 SP’s and true aces are not.
No kidding. They’re 150 million/6 years for 1.
And worth it
IS Minaya still in the holy land? My worry is that this is a wall being built out of mud w/o straw….are they REALLY working on a deal/?????
Mets better pull the trigger on this before Hank the Clown decides to make the trade in order to deflect bad press from the upcoming steroid hearings.
Responding to whoever said that the mets ‘played under .500 ball for 2/3 of the season’ it’s just a pessimistic twist on what happened. Call me an optimist but what I saw happen last season was the Mets blowing the division with an epic collapse. It took an EPIC, HISTORIC collapse for the phillies to edge the mets for the postseason. In no way whatsoever do I consider the Phillies the ‘team to beat’ just because they happen to be the team we gift wrapped an early Xmas present to. And that’s without Santana on the Mets. You can say ‘what if John Maine didn’t have an all star caliber first half’ but I can say ‘what if Carlos Delgado didn’t have a career defying, pathetic season?’ I think his best days are behind him, but he’s certainily capable of better production than that. Reyes won’t burn himself out stealing 70 bases by July, the Mets will have the best starting pitcher in baseball, and when they win the division by 14 games next year we’ll forget about this whole ‘Phillies being the team to beat’ in the NL East, cause that’s not how it is.
‘pessimistic twist’? what am i twisting? that is what happened. you’re limiting the season to a month of bad play- i would call that putting a much bigger twist on things.
if you treat this off season as only needing to recover from a bad two weeks you’re going to face the exact same problems you had last year. the goal can’t be to win that one extra game. with the mets resources the goal should be to build a team that can win around 95 games. we have, at best, the same team that won 88 games last year. the phillies and braves are as good or better than they were last year. if the phils can avoid losing utley or hamels at all next year they’ll be even better. and i’m down on glavine too, but adding 200+ league average innings is a MAJOR upgrade for them.
we had one phenomenal year- everybody in the lineup put up great numbers and the bullpen was lights out. it’s not the same lineup and a very different bullpen. why does that one great year make us ‘the team to beat’ any more than the collapse takes it away?
Yea, that’s what happened. But see it was pretty clear they were struggling all season to really get on track. Despite their shortcomings, they still were atop the division for almost the whole season. So many things went wrong. Almost no Pedro. Half a Delgado. Reyes’ burn out. Wright’s slow start. Lo Duca’s decline. Beltran’s slight decrease in production. Endy’s injury. A LOT of things went wrong and the team still was a game away from the postseason. You’re overrating the Phils and as you can see from their postseason showing, they hardly deserved to be there. So now you hope that Pedro can give you alittle more. Delgado can give you more. That’s 2 big pieces right there. Beltran bumps up his production back up. If things go a little bit better this year, I don’t see them winning by any less than 4-6 games because the Phils simply aren’t as good. This is all without Santana.
Every team faces everything you said every year. Last year I would say MORE went wrong for the phillies.
they lost they best player, utley, for a month. they lost their best pitcher, hamels, for a 3 or 4 starts. they took such a hit in the bullpen they had to use their 2nd best starter out there and then HE got hurt. leiber was hurt. madson was hurt. they got nothing out of garcia. for chrissakes, they had antonio alfonseca closing for a while. and don’t let his performance against the mets fool you, he does stink.
the mets had their injuries but none of the impact players were out for any significant amount of time. alou’s injury was the only comparable loss, and we’ve done nothing do remedy it when he goes down again.
the phils had the depth to make up for much bigger problems, and that’s what made them better. we are facing the same situation in 2008.
As a Met fan living in Philly, I think kendychavez is right on. For all of the things that went wrong for the Mets, the Phillies had more adversity. You failed to mention DL stints by Howard, Victorino, and Gordon. I agree that the Phillies would not have won if the Mets hadn’t completely fallen apart, but why can’t anyone give them credit for winning games when they had to….like the last 8 times they played the Mets.
OFers who spent time on the DL last season: Alou, Beltran, Chavez, Gomez, Green, Johnson, Milledge.
Valentin went down for the year.
Pedro was out all year. Duque spent 2 stints on the DL. Burgos went down for the year. Duaner and Padilla never came back.
LoDuca spent 2 stints on the DL, and Castro was also on the DL during one of these stints. Our starting catchers were DiFelice and Alomar Jr.
Damion Easley went down for the year.
Those were the injuries.
Delgado played like garbage coming off two offseason surgeries. Heilman had a rough start. Schoenweiss was terrible early on. Glavine was not our as advertised ace. Green was a statue in RF.
The only players I would consider having *good* seasons are: Wright, Reyes, Beltran, Wagner, Feliciano, Maine, and Perez. That’s pretty much it. Although, Gotay and Castillo played well in limited action.
Not to mention Willie kept Delgado in the 4 hole and Wright in the 5 hole for waaaaaay too long. Wright should be cemented into the 3rd or 4th spot for the rest of his career.
Look man you can spin it however you want. You are clearly a Met fan with your own perception of hwo good last year’s team was, and I have my own. Since we won’t be ‘convincing’ each other that they were either not that good or not that bad, I think Squad sums it up good right here. The Mets didn’t hit their stride once last season. All year, I was waiting. I wasn’t even talking about the injuries so much as the let down in guys like Delgado, Beltran, Lo Duca – I mean that’s our 2, 3, and 5 spots from 2 years ago. No Pedro. Yea Utley went down (mind you Iguchi did a fine job as temporary fill in) and Hamels missed a few starts but I think if the Mets had gained even a little steam at some point last season it wouldn’t have came to the last 2 weeks. I think you’re trying to over analyze the numbers and make the conviction of ‘no they weren’t that good’ which is fine, that’s what you believe. But to me, this team was flat all season, and even while underperforming severely, they still were forced out of the postseason due to an historic collapse. I think the team was a lot better than they played, and you think they’re just as good as their record indicated. I’m not oging to say you’re wrong, except…you’re wrong.
we’re not going to convince each other because you’re being unreasonable. you’re being a complete homer, downplaying the phils injuries and playing up our injuries.
you can’t count pedro because the team was supposed to have been built to not need him. you had to expect regression from lo duca and delgado because they’re getting older, and lo duca had an aberrational year in 2006. you have to be ready for that type of thing and the mets weren’t. it is irrational to think that when it comes to injuries the mets had it worse than the phils. it’s just plain wrong. look at the list of mets injuries somebody posted about this. it just doesn’t add up to what the phillies went through.
what do you think you’re proving by saying ‘iguchi did a good job’? that’s supporting your case? that’s the whole point. it came down to depth and the mets didn’t have enough. we didn’t ‘hit a stride’ because the starting pitching wasn’t good enough. we waited in vain for the 8, 9, 10 game winning streak. they didn’t have it in them. how do i know that? because they didn’t do it.
it’s as old as baseball- you don’t win games on paper. these game have been played and the results are in and you are still going by what could/should have happened. you can’t STILL tell me the mets were better than the phillies when we couldn’t win as many games and got pounded head to head. we were 6-12 against them. i’m not overanalyzing anything.
Carlos Gomez
Deolis Guerra
Kevin Mulvey
Aaron Heilman
for Johan Santana.
Possible additions of Humber and Gotay.
Aside from that deal having no chance to happen, great idea.
I say make the deal. This deal makes the Mets pitching staff amazing for years to come. Any pitcher they pick up for the next 6 years will be a number 2 or higher, taking all the pressure off the staff. Not many teams have the 1-2 punch (indians, arizona).
It means the chance to walk into any playoff series and win 2 games, just by adding Santana. Imagine Santana throwing against the Marlins the last game of the season last year? I was there and it hurt.
Plus I doubt anyone will be thinking, “damn, I wish Kevin Mulvey was here” if Johan Santana is on the hill at Shea for a Game 7.
A plea to people who post on blogs for other teams that Matt links to:
Guys, can you please not go around making moronic posts on blogs for other teams whenever Matt links to them? You just make yourself look dumb. If you’re gonna troll, at least be funny when you’re doing it.
Do it for the lulz.
Lulz are certainly key.
Please! Or better yet, don’t post there at all cause all that’s gonna happen is that they are gonna come here and we all know how unfunny and unclever other teams fans are. Unless, of course, you like reading multiple “Mutts Suck, you’re not even the best team in your city, lolzzzzz!!!!111!!!!” posts.
Not that it has any real baseball value, but it would put 3 first round fantasy baseball picks on the Mets.
I’m only into fantasy football myself, but are you saying Beltran is not a first rounder?
Not really, but he is a early second rounder. I’m assuming 12 team leagues.
Wright, Beltran, Reyes, Santana.
Four first rounders.
I, and I think most, wouldn’t take Beltran in the first round, but I guess it all depends on what you like.
Did you guys see the Atlanta Braves “bling” fashion cap?????
OMG! What is MLB doing????????
Wow. Lil John wouldn’t even wear that hat.
WHAATT!!! YEAAAHHH!!
MLB Apparrel Exec: Mr John, we’d like you to waer our new Atlanta Bling hat
Lil John: WHAT??
MLB Apparrel Exec: Our new Atl Bling Hat
Lil John: YEEAAAAH?
MLB Apparrel Exec: We’d like you to waer it
Lil John: WHAT??……….
getting santana would give the mets a clear advantage in 2008
santana, pedro, maine, perez, duque
though 2009 and beyond would likely be a crap shot. ollie, pedro, and duque are both free agents. will the mets be able to pay them after giving santana $20m+ per:
santana, maine, pelfrey, ?, ?
without any prospects left (f-mart, gomez, mulvey, humber, guerra), there will be nobody to take the place of those pitchers or alou and delgado. if they go the free agent route it’s huge $$ and they lose picks never rebuilding the system.
I hate when people are logical
Doesn’t it suck? But we have to WIN NOW!
Well, would clear a lot of payroll with Delgado gone, Pedro gone, Alou gone. 2009 free agent pitchers list isn’t too shabby.
Here are some nice options:
A.J. Burnett TOR (may opt out)
Jon Garland LAA
Rich Harden * OAK
Orlando Hernandez NYM
Jason Jennings HOU
John Lackey * LAA
Derek Lowe LAD
Brad Penny * LAD
Mark Prior CHC
C.C. Sabathia CLE
Johan Santana MIN
Ben Sheets MIL
John Smoltz * ATL
Oops, left Johan and the Duke on there
Listening to Mike and the Dog.
Francessa said he called the Mets and read the Minnesota story to the Mets and they said the story and prospects listed were inaccurate. He said the Twins still have not come off Reyes.
Take it for what it’s worth.
I’ll take nothing
I believe nothing Francesca says; he has frequently been saying things that are flat-out wrong, particularly lately.
To all Mets fans,
Santana or not,I think you guys need to win something! I mean look at your sorry team’s record since 2000 – what have u got to show for all these years of overspending? one NLCS appearance??? and what if u get Santana? do any of you seriously believe you can match up with any of the AL teams? All this bandwidth in the offseason about “will we or wont we get”..cmon guys you guys had the team last year – getting Santana is life shock therapy on a comatose person..
which one? The old one or the younger chain smoking one?
The young clone, since I refuse to believe any earth woman would have sex with George Steinbrenner. And yes, I think if we don’t pull this trigger in the next day or so Hanko the Clown will ride in on his unicycle and sweep up santana in order to deflect the steroid congressional hearings.
Why celebrate by doing something you do five times a day anyway?