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According to the Daily News, Hank Steinbrenner said he is ‘leaning away’ from trading for Johan Santana.
Multiple reports over the last few weeks have written that while Yankees GM Brian Cashman and Hal Steinbrenner have been against acquiring Santana, Hank Steinbrenner had been on the fence.
The thing is, as noted yesterday by Peter Abraham at his blog for the Journal News, Hank and Hal have equal power – despite Hank’s overt presence in the media.
Steinbrenner, as quoted by the Daily News…
“I’m growing more and more comfortable with what we have, and the veteran players I’ve talked to seem to be pretty comfortable with what we have. But we’ll see what happens.”
…additionally, the buzz from boston suggests that the Red Sox continue to explore a deal that will bring them a significant set-up man, which will likely cost them one of the players needed to get santana…initially, i assumed they would target A’s RHP Huston Street, while using Coco Crisp, who Billy Beane is quite fond of, according to Peter Gammons…however, and this is total speculation, but i wonder if all the talk between the Red Sox and Twins is more about Joe Nathan than santana…just a thought…
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In other words Hank actually has no say in the matter and has just been talking out of his ass for the last couple months. And Hal and Cashman finally told him to stfu.
If the Yankees are out that means the red sox are out right? So we’re pretty much the twins only option.
Well said…..and I hope to God you’re right!
Yea, OK Hank…… Since you ALWAYS mean what you say, and NEVER change your mind…….
Omar right about now you get your lazy ass on the phone and get us santana —— NOW ——-!!!!!!!!
Now is not the time to become hasty. Omar is not lazy he is playing his cards well. He is keeping the Mets in the discussion. The Twins are the ones who should be calling Omar quickly because if the Yanks and Red Sox drop out they are left with only the Mets and than Omar has the upperhand and can start lowering the offer.
No, Santana in a few days at a lesser price is not the same as getting him NOW.
now is the time NOW NOW NOW NOT Later we played the waiting card two much were tempting other teams to think about a trade NOW NOW NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I would love the chance to negotiate a deal with you.
Hank said Yanks are out of the Santana race?
That must mean they are going to lock him up by the end of the week for the overwhelming Yankee package of Melky Cabrera, Sean Henn and Kei Igawa.
Whether you pay him now or next year when he becomes a free agent, Johan is gonna get his 7 years regardless. And for a team who is in desperate need of a stable force in their rotation after Pedro leaves, money and length of contract should not be an issue for the Mets.
Twins are trying to fleece everybody when they are not really in a position to be fleecing.
Omar, do it rotten.
So Yanks and Sox falling completely out of it means we might be able to get him for just 4 of our prospects, instead of the 5th (FMart?) that they are asking for?
I hope so…5 prospects is alot, for anyone. Omar is playing his hand well, he should keep his offer at 4 guys and see if the Twins blink first.
I just can’t wait for this to be done either way, this Santana situation is like the neverending story…. this site is starting to feel like Groundhog Day, Sox close to Santana deal, Hank says Yanks out, Hank say Yanks in, Mets prospects suck, wash, rinse repeat….
If we can keep FMart and still get Santana it would be huge.
Sucks they want Mulvey instead of Pelfrey or even Heilman, who will likely walk when he’s a FA.
I would rather have Pelfrey at this point than Mulvey anyway. Remember its likely that they would rather have Pelfrey too if there was not money involved. As for Heilman, I can’t say I would miss him but I would rather it be Heilman and Gotay instead of Martinez and get back a reliver from the Twins. Maybe Ricon?
I think this report may be inaccurate anyway. I don’t think they want Humber for the same reason’s as Pelfrey.
I think right now its
Gomez, Mulvey, FMart, Guerra, for Santana. The Mets are holding firm that they don’t want to give up all 4 and would rather the Twins take a lesser prospect for 1 of them.
Twins are in a perfect position because they know that all 3 of the big market teams are in on it.
The Mets need to get him by trade because the Yankee’s will give him not only the 140 but maybe 150.
I just wish we did not have to give up Gomez, Martinez and Guerra. If we have to do that we should get someone else in return along with Santana. Its not going to be Nathan as the Twins can get much more for him from the Sox or Yankees and maybe even more teams.
Options
Cuddyer: 28 years old. The RH version of Church, he can play 1st as well. Would make for a good platoon and give us options at 1st as well. If we got him, however, it would be a win now situation as he does not seem to have much upside.
Ricon: Had a horrible season last year after consistantly puting up ERA’s under 3.00.
Guerrier: Twins setup man last year. Had a really good season
Jose Morales: A real steal to fill a needed position. A catching prospect that batted .311 in the minors and was 3/3 in his call up. He could easily take over for Schnieder or Castro when their contracts are up.
I know these guys may not have the upside of Martinez but at least they would fill a need somewhere. We just can’t trade our 5 best prospects in the system for 1 guy this late in the offseason. There just are not enough players to fill the holes.
Now if they would take 2/3 of Chavez, Smith, Gotay it might work.
How about
Gomez, Mulvey, Humber, Guerra, Chavez, Gotay for
Santana and Cuddyer? That seems like a win win for both teams. The Twins get the this year ready CF and the one in the making Gomez. The Mets get to keep FMart and get the RH OF/1B they need. Its a lot to give up but I would still do it.
You’retaking FMart out of the deal and inserting Cuddyer. Seems like a longshot. I’d do that in a heartbeat, but no shot in the world. Twins dont want Chavez, hes not an everyday player. I think Gotay can be a good everyday 2nd baseman, but thats obviously not how the Mets or other teams view him. So Twins probably wouldnt take him either.
Giving them bench players wont get it done. Be realistic.
I think your right its a long shot but Cuddyer is much more expensive and doesn’t fit their long range plans.
Have you seen their roster? Their CF is Craig Monroe. They need position players and are not very deep at least not with quality. Gotay and Chavez would be needed additions and could start. I am not sure I would not rather have Chavez in CF than Monroe. Then move Monroe to RF?
I see what you’re saying. But does Chavez fit their long term plans? He’s a 29 year old journeyman 4th OF. His best value is off the bench.
If Minnesota thought as highly of Gotay as us Mets fans did, you’re right, we can insert him into the deal. I love Gotay, think he can be a good 2nd baseman. But seems like baseball people that are in the know think otherwise, or else we wouldnt of signed Castillo to a 4 year deal or his name would be popping up more in trade discussions.
Chavez does not fit but he is cheap and plays a good CF and can hold the fort for Gomez to take the spot. I don’t doubt that Gotay has little trade value and looking at his minor league numbers I can’t say I expect him to hit near .300 either. He is a bench player at best. I realize that Martinez is still better than Chavez and Gotay combined but I would suggest Omar make a push like that. Omar “Ok you cant have Gomez and Martinez but we will give you 2 for 1 for anyone else on the list.”
The Red Sox-Marlin’s trade of several years ago - Beckett plus for Ramirez plus - argues that the Twin’s latest offer is too steep. But perhaps the market for SP has shifted since then
In what way? Seems that deal worked out just fine for both
teams. I’d have no problem w/ gomez and/or Martinez becoming stars if we’d get two rings out of it likethe Bosox did.
I understand the point, but Beckett went to Boston in ‘06–two years after the Red Sox first title
Enough with the prospect angle… We have 2 first round picks this season and a sandwich pick between round 1 and 2. If we pay above the slot we’ll be able to restock the farm system… So, it’s not as if we will be devoid of prospects…
Make the deal… You make you $$ on the major league level by wining games, making the postseason and winning championships.
Don’t we have those picks if we don’t make the trade?
However, it does mean something if you can somehow keep F-Mart and throw in Heilman instead, then you sign Dotel and use all the picks to replace the pitching need that was depleted, paying above slot and drafting by need. Keeping F-Mart allows them to use all three picks on pitching, IMO.
Patience, Omar, patience.
The steady defection of teams from contention for Johan is proof of the wisdom of your method.
Santana holds the cards here, and he wants to come to Shea. If Bill Smith coveted Jacoby Ellsbury or Phil Hughes, he could’ve had either one of them. But he knows that Johan wants to come here.
Don’t listen to the blogosphere, Omar.
Stay the course.
I think the Yankees and the Sox cancel each other out. Each wants to keep Johan going to the other. That’s why Hank keeps making this noise, he’s letting the Sox know they can’t walk away with Johan. If the Sox actually were poised to get Santana I’d bet that Hank would throw whatever it takes to get him instead. The same for the Sox. If they get into a bidding war they both lose because each side will up the ante to make sure the other overpays. Luckily they’re both smart enough (which is saying a lot for the Yankees) to realize their predicament.
That’s why Omar needs to be patient here. Both the Yanks and the Sox would be okay if the Mets get Santana (obviously the Yanks would hate the resulting Mets great press) since it also gets him out of the AL, and keeps him out of their division rival’s hands. This may be working out just as Omar thought it would, and as many of us thought it would as well. FOUR prospects, no more.
i say go humber, mulvey, heilman, f mart, church. its fair and the mets dont get that crushed in the farm. sending gomez and fmart might be a little costly.
You can’t nor should you send Church. We need him for this season. He is not a deal breaker but I don’t want to go into the season with Gomez being the starting RF.
I think Church will have a surprisingly good season and we will be glad we have him.
Trading all the valuable chips in the farm for 1 guy also causes downstream problems.
That is, how do you fill other holes (that they have now, or for next year?)
And it isn’t just that you don’t have the palyers to call up in a pinch, you don’t have them to trade to fill your needs.
I’m not saying that they shouldn’t trade 4 guys for Santana, just that you can’t just keep adding bodies (and their best ones) and not have it come back to bite you. It really is taking a big risk.
Also, Santana doesn’t guarantee a WS appearance (or even the playoffs) although of course the odds are better.
I just don’t want to see a rotation with 2 Lima/lawrence guys in it due to injuries, and not having any better options.
Get creative. Find 2 guys other than Guerra and martinez to go with Gomez, Mulvey and Humber. Lots of choices (Smith, Carp, Gotay etc.)
If Omar can play this hand to a pot that includes Johan while retaining Martinez, Guerra and Pelfrey, he should get a pass on all negative comments for a while!
If they do have to go to the 5 top guys, getting a prospect back (like that catcher dude) or at least some valuable bench types is a must.
Guerra might be a stud but he can be replaced as he is only 18 and we have 3 draft picks. I actually think they do not want Humber or Pelfrey because of cost.
I think that its FMart, Gomez, Guerra, and Mulvey. If that is true I would do like you said and try to include Smith and Gotay types for FMart or Gomez.
Then I would trade for a guy like Morris or Marquis or sign Lieber (I think that would be the best idea)
That gives us
Johan, Pedro, Maine, Perez, Elduque (who they have already said will be in the rotation as well he should when healthy he is still the man). Then Lieber could be the long man and we would still have Pelfrey and Humber in the minors waiting for the inevitable injury.
Walk away fast. The whole farm for one pitcher is just stupid. As time goes on the price will go down.
Then and only then should Omar pounce.
This is starting to get close. Can’t you feel it? Omar is being patient and is playing his cards right. But he still has to put it away with a good enough offer that the Twins pull the trigger. Otherwise they just might wait till June. So if FMart is the key then so be it.
In Omar we trust!!!!!
Johan Santana has a full no-trade clause in his contract & has said that he won’t agree with a trade after the start of the season. He will be traded before spring training starts.
The no-trade clause expires once the season starts. The only leverage he has is stating he won’t negotiate an extension.
Although it is hard to see why he would block a trade if he can go to a 1st place team, and a shot at the WS, if the Twins are 15 games out.
He’d block a trade if he didn’t want to spend the next seven years with whatever team the Twins decide to trade with, and if that team wasn’t willing to pony up the big bucks.
If the trade is not completed before the season starts, Johan will have every incentive to wait until free agency. He’ll have MUCH more leverage then.
So in effect, he does have a full no-trade clause through the 2008 season.
not if the twins get a package they are willing to take, from a team that is willing to let him walk (for the draft pick) at the end of the year.
Unless of course he wants to refuse to report and not get paid!
The no-trade clause expires once the season starts.
I’ve seen this stated here before on Metsblog, and I’ve also seen where some knocked that down. I think it’s incorrect. I haven’t seen this confirmed or stated anywhere but on a message board., As such, Santana will continue to hold a lot of power in determining his next destination. Which is good for the Mets as I still believe what Matt has been saying for a long time — that Santana has a strong preference for pitching for the Mets.
if Cots is a solid source he still has the no trade in 2008
mlbcontracts.blogspot.com/2005/01/minnesota-twins_17.html
Johan Santana lhp
4 years/$39.75M (2005-08)
* signed extension 2/05, avoided arbitration ($6.8M-$5M)
* 05:$5.5M, 06:$9M, 07:$12M, 08:$13.25M
* may earn award bonuses
o $25,000 for All-Star selection, 2nd in AL MVP vote or 3rd in CY vote
o $50,000 each for Gold Glove, AL MVP, LCS MVP or 2nd in CY vote
o $100,000 each for WS MVP, Cy Young award
* limited no-trade clause 2006-08
o may block trades to 3 clubs in 05, 8 in 06, 10 in 07 & 12 in 08
o full no-trade clause for 2007-08 with top 3 in CY vote in 06 or 07
If Omar plays his cards right, he should be able to get us Santana AND solve the conflict between the Israelis and Palestinians. While he’s at it, he’ll sign up a young, flame-throwing lefty from a Gaza refugee camp.
It’s called multi-tasking.
If you’re absolute blue-chip, can’t miss prospects were pitchers (like is the case with the Yanks and Red Sox), I would hesitate. But, our best prospects are two outfielders, one 21 and the other 20. Mulvey and Humber are back of the end rotation guys at best. And, Guerra? So green! 89 innings of high A ball, where he was less than stellar in 20 game starts with 2-6 record with a 4.01 era.