…Twins GM Bill Smith is in a tough position…
…from what i can tell, his team’s fans are starting to feel like he missed an opportunity during 
early December to acquire Phil Hughes, Jacoby Ellsbury or Jon Lester for Johan Santana, and because he misplayed his hand he must now entertain accepting unimpressive minor leaguers from the Mets…and while some fans are comfortable with that, in the end they expect a lot more in return for a guy like santana…
…what’s worse, this could essentially be the most important trade of this guy’s young career…
…and so, he really has no choice but to do everything within his power to try and wrangle a big-time player who the fans and media will be satisfied with…i mean, if he trades santana for what is perceived as mostly mid-level prospects, he’s going to have a lot of questions to answer…the thing is, in the long run, of all the rumored deals, he may be better off taking four or five prospects from the Mets…but, by the time Fernando Martinez is making an impact at the major-league level, smith may already be looking for another job…
…as a Mets fan who wants to see santana in blue and orange next season, this is why i worry about the Yankees…because, it would not surprise me to see them flip these talks around, shift gears, and secretly offer up a player like Chien-Ming Wang, who will earn the league minimum in 2008, after which he’ll likely be paid roughly $10 million per-year each of the following three seasons, before being eligible for free agency after 2011…
…remember, according to multiple reports, the Twins did offer santana a four-year deal worth nearly $20 million per season…so, bringing on a back-to-back 19–game winner for half that money, through the same time frame, could be the type of impact player who fans may pat smith on the back for…
…of course, there is no real reason to believe that the Yankees would ever be so bold…accept that i don’t trust them, and i believe they’re capable of anything – especially when it comes to ruining my hopes and dreams…
…if everything remains as is, and santana puts a bit of pressure on the Twins to move him sooner than later, then i see the Mets as the front runners…if, however, santana plays it cool, gives smith the luxury of time, and the Yankees pony up a significant name like wang, or decide to make hughes available again, then the Yankees will rush right to the front of the line – assuming santana will approve a deal to the Bronx…
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The Yankees are volitile in this sense. If Omar really believes that Santana is the guy to get and adding F-Mart to the deal gets it done, I think he has to offer it up. The Yankees interest could changes and fluctuates at any given moment, making them dangerous in this. I wouldn’t have a problem with overpaying in prospects to bring Santana in. The longer the Mets or Twins wait, the more I can see the Yanks pulling the trigger. Take the gun out of their hand ASAP or we may miss out.
I can’t see the Yankees putting Wang in a deal for the same reasons the Mets won’t put Maine in a deal. The idea is to ADD ON to the young, affordable pitching.
Hughes, on the hand, is a possibility is Hankie gets a little frisky.
exactly magooley. adding a 19 game winner to the deal makes no sense for the yanks. yea santana is a “sexier” name than chin meing wang but in the end he wont add much more production in terms of wins and losses to the yankees from last year. i think the twins fans are realistic enough to not expect a big name major leaguer but i think the longer this goes and the more they read about fernando martinez the more they are gonna think “if we cant have hughes or ellsbury we better at least get martinez”. so hopefully their desire to obtain martinez will allow omar to pull a guerra OUT of the deal.
I can’t see how anybody could possibly think Smith has misplayed anything.
I believe Boston has recinded trading Ellsbury, but the Lester/Coco trade is stll on the table. Boston put it out there and told the Twins that there was no rush, it would be there waiting for them to take if and when they decide to take it. I think everyone here can admit that it is a pretty good offer. The twins fill their CF hole, get a leftly to help fill in for Santana, plus pick up a few decent prospects for down the road as well.
In my mind, that is the worst case scenario and that is a pretty good scenario to have waiting in the wings for the taking. In my mind, that also puts the Twins in the power seat regardless of what anybody may think.
With that deal waiting, they can’t really lose no matter what they do. Smith can deal with the Skanks and the Mets with zero fear because there is zero margin for error. He can always take the Boston offer.
I think we all know the Mets are definitely still in this thing, but is there anybody out there that really truely believes the Skanks are out of this thing? C’mon – every time Hanky Panky says he’s out, he follows it up with their offer is the best. At one point after claiming his offer was off the table he went on to say that he didn’t want the Twins to think the Yankees were out of it.
Hanky wants Santana so bad he can’t stand it. This guy is definitely a loose cannon and quite possibly the Mets worst nightmare.
Personally, I don’t think anything has changed since the winter meetings. It’s the same three teams with the same three offers waiting for the Twins to crack. I also have a sneaky suspicion that Smith is playing the Mets to get the Yanks to up the anty.
nice analysis. Very logical. Might even be close to reality!
fernando martinez stays. and it does sound like ‘wut?’ to give up wang for santana considering that teams are trying to bolster their starting rotation…
The Yankees trading Wang would be rediculous…. why would you trade a guy who has won 19 games 2 years in a row and doesn’t show any signs of slowing down. Plus he makes basically nothing and hes a few years younger than Johan.
Dumb idea…. unless of course you enjoy adding $140 million to your payroll for nothing more than a bunch of extra strikouts in comparison to Wang
sounds like a Yankee move to me.
Concur! Get it done Omar…let sleeping dogs lie…..this is by far the most important winter of your career and all we have to show for it is Ryan Church, Brian Schneider, and Luis Castillo. Let’s not kid ourselves here….last year’s collapse was a complete embarrassment to the organization and to the fan base.
i don’t belive it was willie fault the mets lost i think it was omars omar is the gm he is the one to say yes or no and if you don’t make any deals and no pitching yeah we are going to lose omar your year is up make a deal to get santana or bedard or your FIRED
i have been reading these santana musings for so long i am getting punchy….i really want to keep our prospects but dont want to see him go to the skankees…it would be like a double whammy….i could live with him going to boston (who i dont like much either) since that would be very bad for hankensteins club….
how would Santana going to the Red Sox be good for the Mets? The best team gets better, meaning its harder to beat them, and therefore harder to win the World Series…how does that help the Mets?
EXACTLY what i think when i hear people say it’s good if santana goes to the redsox.
some met fans care more about the yankees losing, than the mets winning.
it’s pathetic.
Twins don’t want Wang because he will be making $10M and isn’t even half the pitcher Santana is.
Also imagine him on turf.
Your correct. Wang would be terrible on turf. So many ground balls would be making through the infield.
I have complete Santana fatigue. It’s enough already. It’s getting to the point that I hope he pulls a Brian Cole and no one gets him. On the bright side, we’ll at least get his number on our sleeve then…
Wow, that was an incredibly edgy comment. Pretty funny, but reeeeally pushing the limits of PC. I don’t think many people remember who Brian Cole was though, so you’re probably safe.
I remember Brian Cole. And the prior comment is pretty tasteless.
I agree.
im a fan of tasteless jokes but you basically wished death upon johan santana thats pretty bad man.
The Mets minor leaguer who died in a car crash? I don’t get how that’s even relevant. Was there a lot of hype around him back then? I don’t even remember…
He was highly touted very sad story
recoton1 – that’s something MrMet41 would say. Loser.
Brian Cole was a good guy and had the potential to be a pretty decent ballplayer.
I really don´t see the Twins GM sending a pitcher of Santana´s status to any team in the AL unless he was getting back a couple super prospects from said AL team.
I actually wouldn´t mind seeing the Mets keep the young guys they have in their farm system. I for some reason, call it stupidity, have this gut feeling they will amount to be quality contributors to this team in the near and distant future.
Just give me a quality product here Omar! I want to be able to watch my Mets and not complain (too much) this season. Anyone know how much the MLB.tv package is for the season, as that´s pretty much my only option of watching my Mets from here in South America?
Go Mets!
I think the adding of another $20 million to the luxury tax liability is the primary concern of the Yanks and the Red Sox, not solely the prospects involved. To trade top prospects, offer a huge contract extension with an increased luxury tax penalty added to the payroll makes this deal much more complicated and perhaps financially prohibitive for both Yanks and Sox. At a certain point this becomes a situation of diminishing returns for both teams.
This isn’t the case for the Mets. If Santana was under control for 2 or 3 more seasons at a more reasonable salary, like Dan Haren, this trade would have been completed by either the Yanks and Red Sox in December. But he’s not under control and the contract extension is what is giving Minaya some bargaining power over Smith.
Smith is backing himself into a corner here. If I was him I’d get this done sooner than later. Omar is playing this with alot of widsom and patience….let the bird come to him to feed out of his hand.
I like your thought process about the luxury tax. Really it ends up costing them so much more money in the long run.
The thing about the Yankees is that they are split on him. Hank and Randy Levine want him with Hal and Cashman not wanting him because of the money. If I was Cashman I would be pissed that these idiots are trying to take over. Levine and Hank are both baseball morons. Not saying Hal is any better but at least Hal is not acting like a buffoon like Hank.
The Sox are just trying to keep him away from the Yankees which I think ends up in our favor.
I want Johan and I can’t decide whether I just want to give up F-Mart now to make sure we get him or hold out and try and get a deal done with less prospects when the Yanks don’t bite right before spring training.
if F-Mart is the deal breaker you have to include him. Perhaps you can keep a starting pitcher out of the deal, but not Martinez. He is the jewel of the system. And although Omar is holding out right now, he is eventaully going to have to have send them Gomez and F-Mart and 2 pitchers. The fan base will go nuts about all the prospects included and will accuse Minaya of over-paying in prospects, but this is a deal Omar and the Wilpons have to make.
I saw or heard this a week or so ago – ‘a deal is only fair and good if both sides feel they gave up too much.’
The Twinkies made a mistake here and misjudged the timing. The only way they would have received a trade package they liked and thought was suitable was a year ago or at last season’s trade deadline. For them, this is a year too late and they aren’t in the driving seat, the other GMs are.
“”The Twinkies made a mistake here and misjudged the timing. The only way they would have received a trade package they liked and thought was suitable was a year ago or at last season’s trade deadline. For them, this is a year too late and they aren’t in the driving seat, the other GMs are.”"
Ok, with all of this being said, why do you say the Mets should empty the system out for a guy whos being traded by a team with no leverage? Makes no sense. I find it funny people are ready to give up Martinez, Gomez, Guerra, and Mulvey. Personally, I dont even give them Fernando Martinez straight up for Santana. Actually I dont even consider it. Most of you dont realize how good this kid is. It is one year of Santana. One year. 20 wins, 200 strikeouts, 200 innings, thats all we are paying for. Anything that happens after that concerning an extension is the Mets business. You would pay our 4 top prospects for 200 dominant innings? If you understand all of this and stil want to make the trade, then I dont know what to tell you. It is one year of Santana though. Is it worth ruining 2 or 3 years of developing the farm? Not for me.
Wisdom and Patience? Are you serious? Omar has never shown those attributes. Ever. If he could have had Santana already he would have. The Twins just dont want our prospects or they would have said yes. They would rather Hughes, Melky, and Kennedy but the Yanks wont give in. Smith is waiting for them to break and give in. If Omar can really get him just by including F-Mart and hasnt then he is dumber than I thought. You cant turn down a 2 time Cy Young winner who is the ace this team needs because of a unproven OF who we cant use for at least 2 to 3 years, and thats only if he turns out to be any good. If the deal is really there and the trigger just needs to be pulled then Omar has to pull it and save this team and help keep his fanbase.
Omar is being smart and patient. Why give up more than you have to before you have too? Time is on Omar’s side here, not Smith’s.
Its not on his side. How do we know that? The door may close in our face if another team steps up out of nowhere. Then we lose out and are left standing in this pitchers game of musical chairs if you will.
Remember, it is Johan who is in the drivers seat. Not Omar or Smith. He has to waive his no trade clause.
I agree that it would be irresponsible to just give up everything they want right now to appease an impatient fanbase.
Man.. who was ripping me today because “I don’t read deep enough”.. and that the Mets offer was better then the Sox or Yanks.. jeez.. I’ll take some apologies whenever you guys are ready…
And Matt come on buddy.. “accept that i don’t trust them”.. it’s except!
Where is the media on this? If ESPN drums up enough analysts to start questioning why Santana is still on the Twins and making it a bigger story, then they might feel a little more pressure to pull the trigger. Really this is all Roger Clemens fault.
the media doesnt want the mets to land him bc they will all look like complete and total morons.
Is it me, or is Hank Steinbrenner ruining Metsblog. The guy is the biggest attention wh*ore I’ve ever seen in NYC sports, so he likes to generate buzz. Metsblog reacts to each piece of buzz, because one day (over the next 15 years) Hank will say something that actually has some truth/accuracy to it. It’s like we’re listening to muse from a rambling homeless guy on the corner, trying to make sense of what he’s saying….
i cant wait until this is all over and we get posts from Matt and have arguments on what number Santana should be wearing for the mets
Just do it BILLY!!!! end everyones misery!!
Yes, Wang is a 19-game winner…for one of the most potent offenses in baseball. I doubt he has nearly that kind of success in Minny. $10 mill is still a lot of money, especially for the Twins. I don’t think they would go for Wang. They’d rather have a younger “can’t miss” type who they can control for a few years.
I really didn’t think it was possible, but I am finally sick of hearing about Santana.
Really is a tough spot for Smith–Following in the footsteps of Terry Ryan, who did a phenomenal job as GM of the Twins, and in his first off-season has to conduct trade talks regarding the Twins top player, and the best pitcher in the game. I’m sure that Omar, Cashman, and Epstein are taking advantage of the fact that he is green. I think that Ryan should have stayed aboard until that deal was made, at the very least to conduct the talks, while consulting with Smith
Matt, where are you reading that Twins fans aren’t crazy about our prospects? When I read some of their comments the other day (when the Minn. writer claimed adding F-Mart would get a deal done) they seemed very favorable to our prospects. More so than I thought they would, actually. There was even some discussion to that effect on Metsblog.
Suddenly, they don’t like them? Or is that just more media-driven crap about the Mets prospects. What I find ridiculous is the amount of piling-on in regards to our prospects. Then, when you get these guys individually, suddenly they change their tune. Then, it’s “Gomez has more upside the Elisbury” or “Martinez has the highest ceiling of all the prospects mentioned” or things to that effect.
Which is it, guys? Make up your minds already.
Include Maine and pull back Guero or Mulvey.
trade away a proven 15 game winner for another pitcher who is going to give you perhaps five more wins, but yet maintain a whole in the rotation to keep two prospects, one of whom is 18.
That’s brilliant.
Not to mention increasing your payroll about 22 million.
“Include Maine and pull back Guero or Mulvey.”
New stupidest comment on Metsblog. Not going to even bother to explain.
I am starting to see a trade by the Mets for Santana……slip sliding away. Omar had to jump on that 5 player trade. Now……….my trust in Omar is …………slip sliding away.
But Hey! we still got those prospects to trade for ….Blanton? Oh yeah, I can’t wait.
WE NEED AN ACE! NOT SECOND PLACE!
I can’t agree more!
A blogger from the Tribune is the only source that has confirmed the 5 player thing with Fernando Martinez being the 5th in question as true. And he is the one who wrote it. Not saying he made it up but no other source has said it was true. Enough telling Omar to include F-Mart to get the deal done when you have no idea what Smith does or doesn’t want from Omar at this point. Why believe a blogger from the Tribune instead of Francesa? They are equally information-less.
According to a poll on the Star Tribune’s website, leading with 43.6% Twins fans want to keep Santana in Minnesota while 35% said the Mets should get him, in 3rd place was the Red Sox with 12.4% with the Yankees in last at 8.7%
As much as I appreciate Matt Cerrone’s reporting he is so far off on this one, it is ridiculous. Minnesota is not trading Santana to the Mets !! They do not want a bunch of prospects for him. The Twins leaked the story about the Mets being front runners for Santana last week to get the Yankees and Red Sox interested. If you read the other NY/NJ papers this morning it also said the Mets will not give Santana more than a 5 year deal. He wants 7, and will not sign for less. Give it up already, the Mets are not getting Santana.
mets are offering 5 year extension after the 08 season. theyre giving him 6 years.
Spoken like a true Yankee fan !
I can just imagine when both us and the Yanks are going for Teixiera next offseason and every minute he is “in the running”, then “not picking up the phone unless Boras call them”.
come on, how hard is it to get a good package back for Santana? Even if they took the first reported offers from the Mets or the Sox it is still a lot of talent back.
You can get hung up trying to totally rip off the other guy to the extent that you pass up good packages that may not come around.
The only way to end the madness is for the Twins to sign him to an extension
Too high risk for Santana to sign only a 1-2 year extension, even if they pay him 25 Mill per which they wont.
He could get injured and miss out on hundreds of Millions of dollars.
A trade makes sense for both Johan and Smith, and to trade in the next 4 weeks. Twins will most likely get less in return for Johan if they wait, and there is no guarantee that he will waive his no trade clause thus leaving the twins with only draft picks.
Come to think of it, that might be the best case scenario for the mets to land Santana, albeit as a FA in 2009. However, that still doesn’t fix our problems for 2008.
but, even if they have to roll the dice for 2008 with the current crop, the FA route could really set the team up for a solid run.
Assuming a couple of the prospects bust out, they can still have them for the team, and Santana, to open CItifiled.
Agreed. I’m praying Santana reaches free agency. That way it would eliminate two things that I’ve been writhing over recently.
1. We get to keep our prospects and see if they’re the real deal.
2. The Wilpons will have nothing to hide behind, just cost (which, has ‘cost’ this franchise Vlad and Arod).
I still have a hard time believing the Yankees are truly in this, most reports I’ve read say Hank is mostly a figure head. Hal has the first say when it comes to money, Cashman has the first say when it comes to personnel, Hank has second say in both situations but that both Cashman and Hal are against this so it’s irrelevant.
I think mets fans better believe it. Right around the time they announced plans for their new stadium, Hank said he wanted Santana to be the starting picture on opening day.
Hank wants him and all this dissension in the ranks just strikes me as a big ploy. Make everybody think the Skanks aren’t really in it or can’t agree on what they want to do. Hey, everybody! No need to up the anty and start some kind of crazy bidding war for Santana! Hey, we can’t even decide if we are really in this thing or not. We can’t even agree on which course to take. Meanwhile they keep saying their deal is the best.
I don’t think I’ve ever seen an owner and GM so publicly at odds with each other. If I was an owner I wouldn’t tolerate my GM repeatedly second guessing me like that to the press. I’d say Melky, Hughes and Kennedy, but you have to take Cashman too. I’m thinking that team Yankee has agreed to disagree so they can keep the price down.
No, the Skanks are definitely in this thing. Hughes is definitely on the table. Like everybody else, they are trying to give up as little as possible.
I think Smith knows Hanky Panky is going to break and is just biding his time. He’s got a firm offer with no expiration date from the Sox so there is no need to panic.
I think if Omar decides he isn’t going to go after Santana after all or if the price is too high, he should drop hints about trading Reyes, then stand back and watch the all the fun.
Smith is already showing complete incompetence by not getting this trade done shortly after the winter meetings. As more free agents sign the ability for players to be traded goes down. (ex: Melky Cabrera, Aaron Rowand & Mike Cameron) He seems to have no idea what to do, and seems to have no decision making skills as its likely different people within the Twins organization all have different ideas on what to do. He’s coming off like a clown, and he’s making life difficult for the rest of the GM’s around the game. ….get off the pot, there is a line!!!
It’s not going to hapennn!!! forget the Santana Show.
Hey Bill Smith:
Defecate, or remove yourself from the commode!!!!
–Baseball fans everywhere
Another 3 Angels got their wings. Cerone wrote another 3 posts about Santana today with absolutely no news in them.
The whole thread of these discussions, that the Yankees, Red Sox and Mets are the only teams involved is pure BS. They may be the only teams talking now or in the past few months, but GM’s talk, lets say the mets throw Martinez, Pelfrey, Humber Mulvey, Gomez at the Twins, lets say this is satisfactory for Minn. lets say this is more than the Yankees, and Red Sox want to give up, what stops another team, say the Dodgers, Angels, Phils D-Backs etc at that point from saying wait a second I can’t let the mets get Santana for just that let me throw them this package which Smith deems better.
Does anyone else remember when Valdimir Guerero was a free agent a few years ago, all the press reports said the only teams involved were the Mets and Orioles, then all of a sudden the 11th hour Angels came out of nowhere and signed him when nobody had mentioned them before that.
This may be a 3 horse race today, but there are a half dozen other teams who can get involved.
Probably lots of fans here believe time is playing on the side of the Mets, but with a “weak” supposed package out there (big on quantity, iffy on quality, and certainly empty on any immediate impact help), you never know who might jump out of leftfield with offers. Of course, the kicker is not too many teams are eager to throw out the kind of money needed to lock up Santana beyond the rental year. But the danger is there, of course, with the Sox and Yankees already actively or inactively in the waters and watching.
If the Twins are offering a “done deal”, Tthe Mets should get it done. If it turns out the Mets lost Santana over F-Mart, I don’t think anyone here would honestly be happy. Personally, I’d find that as deflating as the Mets bowing out of AROD (“24 +1″) and claiming they had Vladimir x-rays that proved his back wasn’t worth $15M/year.
absolutely 100% agree. everyone complains its too much but in 3 years we’ll all likely be whinning that we’ll never win and that we missed out on santana for some guy named martinez. IF hes honestly the difference between having santana and not you have to man up and make the deal. it s a big risk but with big risks come big rewards.
“but with big risks come big reward”
or big failures/disappointments.
Thanks for contributing.
this is about the hundreth time i will have to say this:
everyone knows, that johan has pretty much said..he’d only accept a trade to boston, or to either of the NY teams.
not the 27 other teams.
Two important points Matt didn’t mention in this post (but has in others) is
1. Santana is in his walk year and therefore a conceivable one year rental; and
2. He has a full no trade.
These considerations impact the type of deal Smith can bargain for in return.
The bottom line is that pitchers and catchers report in 30 days and Omar has done NOTHING to make us better.
Matthew, you’ve been writing these Santana posts too long, buddy and the waiting around is getting to you, like it is getting to all of us, because there’s no way in hell that the Yanks move Wang and I believe that it’s even unlikely that the Twins would even want him, considering the salary. But the Yank want to keep Wang – I mean, we could give up Maine, if that’s what the game was all about, but it’s not. Or maybe it is and maybe that’s what it will take for us to get him, because if it is a matter of getting major league ready talent to show his fans, getting Maine and Heilman plus let’s say Mulvey and Martinez would probably do it, you would think. Where that leaves the Mets in 08 is another question. Probably no worse than now.
And what moves should Omar have made that he didn’t? Lets get specifics, because its real easy to say “Do something” when you don’t have to actually give tangible realistic ideas.
Actually the point that Omar has NOT done anything with the new season approaching is the best indicator on how close the Mets are to acquiring Santana.
Instead of looking at rumors why not look at whats actually happening? The yankees and bosox are not maneuvering with the idea that the other is getting Santana and the Mets are not doing anything to suggest they are NOT going to get Santana.
Its a thin line, that’s for sure. The inactivity this offseason can be attributed to 1 of 2 scenarios.
1. Omar can’t get anyone (ace/frontline starter) because our prospects just aren’t valued as highly as they are in Queens.
2. Omar really believes we’re a “championship-calibur” club.
I can’t blame Omar for the first scenario, but I’ll have REAL problems if it proves to be the latter…
I don’t believe he thinks the Mets are a championship club. Otherwise he wouldn’t be pursuing pitching in the first place.
Omar certainly has had the opportunities to sign free agents. OK they may not be top level caliber pitching but would add some depth. He could also make trades for pitchers with good potential. For example Giants and Pirates have good potential pitchers available and they recognize they are in a rebuilding phase so would be open to trades.
He has done nothing. That level of confidence suggests Omar has some agreement with Santana.
It’s like a friggin’ root canal!
(retire # 17)
Well, Wilpon can rest easy now. The Mets aren’t getting Santana, were never getting Santana, and as far as I’m concerned, this is just another example of the Mets front office getting their fans hopes up when there was never anything to get excited about. Thank god the Giants are doing so well, I want to wait as long as possible before I have to turn my attention back to the chickensht Mets.
hAS ANYONE THOUGHT OF JUST ADDIND hEILMAN OR PELFREY TO THE DEAL. Didnt mean to use the caps. i think that would complete the deal with out ;losing fmart and gomez
Omar, give them Fernando Martinez in place of Humber and end this already.
haha no chance and would have no desirability to the twins. Just wasteing more prospects.
sorry meant for ryanmac
i meant we would only lose one instead of both
the twins are better off keeping santana and taking a shot at a championship this year. if liriano is back healthy that’s a big-time 1-2 punch with a top closer. plenty of talent with mauer, moreau, young
twins will get 2 draft picks next year. they have one of the best group of scouts in mlb for that draft. it’s likely they can acquire talent on the same level as most of the trades save an extra player or two who may not even pan out.
Sure. Except after losing Santana for draft choices, the new GM wouldn’t last long enough for any of the draftees to make the ML roster.
minnesota is not nyc. they give their managers and gm’s an opportunity to succeed before scream irrationally. their organization has a history of stability in management. one of the many reasons for their success with a small budget.
why should they be unhappy with Smith saying that they are putting the best team on the field and going for it in 2008?
Post after post her make it sound like a crime against humanity if the Mets don’t push all the chips in trying to win in 2008, future be damned. Why should the Twins be any different?
I also would count out the Twins’ chances at resigning Santana either. I can’t help but get the feeling that the issue was the twenty million as it was the 4 years. I think the Twins could lock up Santana just by upping the years a bit, maybe add an option or two and some incentives.
Replace Gomez with Martinez then. Make the Twins fans scream.
I say give in already….
Reyes for Santana straight up,
Play Gotay at SS
Sign Shelton to back up Delgado and Church
Keep most the prospects but trade Heilman and Gomez for Nathan.
Cut the crap and get this over with.
This guy makes decisions like my wife…
Lets see the Green shirt or the red one with these jeans….Hey hon…is it the green one or the red one you like better. Let me call my friends…hey Lexi…green shirt or the red one with my k iller jeans??
Smith can’t decide. He should be in wheel chair he is so paralyzed by this dilemma
GoWrightGo, thats a pretty bad idea.
Gotta keep Reyes, if what we got isnt enough to get Santana, theres nothing Omar can do about it. Look what the DBacks gave up for Haren. 7 prospects. And this wasnt exactlly a stellar free agent class to work with either, so you Omar haters lay off him a bit.
I don’t think he’s serious about trading Reyes. He’s just in a rant about Smith’s apparent decisional paralysis.
I keep hearing that Santana wants to play for the Mets. If this is true, he has to tell it out loud, That will stop the Yanks and the Sox from bidding. This is a guy who can write his own ticket. Right now. Today. I suspect that his desire for the Mets is only to get a higher money deal from Yanks or Sox.
All he has to do is say “I want to pitch for the Mets”. and it’s done.
Jim
Its widely speculated, that yes, Johan would prefer to land in Queens. But, he has also stated, publicly mind you, that he wants whats best for the Twins organization. His only requirement being traded to the 3 teams (NYY, NYM, BOS) and before the season begins. Smith is going to do what’s best for his franchise and since this is his first year on the job, probably his livelihood.
I think Santana actually said that he wants to play for a team with a chance to win. A lot of the NY and Boston stuff is speculation based on who would have the money to give Santana the extension he wants. I also seem to remember Tori Hunter saying that Santana told him he wouldn’t mind playing in New York.
If the winning thing is true, there are a lot of non NY teams that would fit the bill.
…of course, there is no real reason to believe that the Yankees would ever be so bold…accept that i don’t trust them, and i believe they’re capable of anything – especially when it comes to ruining my hopes and dreams…
HEY CERRONE FOURTH GRADE ENGLISH CALLED AND WANTS YOU BACK LOLOLOLOLOL I CANT EXCEPT THIS POOR OF GRAMMAR, ACCEPT WHEN YOU WRITE IT MATTY!!!!
COUNT IT!
Doesn’t Bill Smith remind you of Scott Layden? Too afraid to do anything so he did nothing?
if santana does that, he limits himself…
what happens if the mets dont pony up the 140 he is looking for or the 6 plus years…
what if noone does?
personally, if im the mets, I offer him a 4 year deal with a 5th, 6th and 7th year option…
that is fair…
of course..i would also pay him 30 million per year…
so the deal can be as small as 120 million over 4 years or 210 million over 7 years…
if he flakes out in year 4 or 5, u dont have to hold onto him in year 6-7..
in 4-5 years, Beltran, Delgado, Pedro will all be off the payroll..so anybody complaining about the extra 10 mil we spend on Johan can relax…
Its amazing for all the people drooling over Santana, he is being compared alot to Wang, who cannot even compare. Johan would probably win 25 games with the Yankees, seriously. Wang isnt even close to the pitcher Johan is. If Smith decides that Wang can replace Hughes as the main piece the Yankees would prefer that to trading Hughes Im sure.
I’m actually quite curious to see what happens if Santana gets resolved without coming to the Mets.
Will Omar do absolutely nothing? a scrap heap move for a Garcia/Jennings reclaimation project? Or will there be a flurry of solid moves, probably something unexpected (maybe a Snell, or someone like that).
If they don’t get Santana, I’m hoping for the last option, but assume we will get the 1st.
Once again I like your thinking stickguy. If we dont get Santana (which I am not giving up faith on) then I hope Omar has a great plan B. Someone like Bedard or Snell, or maybe even Kazmir would be a terrific back-up plan. Either way we need an ace and not a Jennings/Garcia type for this team. Good points “stick”.
Count me in on this line of thought. Of course I’d like to have Santana, but if we are going to be required to trade away the farm to get just Santana only AND pay 140+ million for the privilege to do so, then why not just trade these 4-5 prospects we keep talking about to the Pirates instead… at least that way we can bring back a package of players for 2008 to help out… players like Snell & Nady… or Snell and Sanchez… or Snell and Bay…
I don’t care who the second player is just so long as we’re getting Snell (who is also controllable for awhle). What’s more, Pittsburgh is so bad, i don’t think they would mind not getting F-Mart as part of a deal. I think of you gave them plenty of quantity starting with Gomez, Heilman, and Pelfrey, I think they would almost have to jump on a deal like that. I’m sure the Pirates would take 6 or 7 guys just the the DBacks gave up for Haren. Sure, the DBacks had to give up their #1 prospect in Carlos Gonzalez, but then again, that was because they were dealing with Billy Beane. Minaya, on the other hand, will only be dealing with a first time GM looking to rebuild his club as quickly as possible. What better way than to ask the Mets for 3 of their top 5 prospects, as well as a few mid-level and low-level players? And for the Mets’ part, it wouldn’t cost them 140 million or more to do a deal like that… AND they could keep F-Mart in the fold to take over in LF or RF come 2009. Just something to think about.
In fact, the more I think about it, the more I wish the Mets would pursue Plan B instead of Santana. I think they’d have a better chance completing a deal with the Pirates at this point than the Twins, who clearly can’t seem to make up their minds at this point. Smith seems to be using Minaya. Minaya should just make a final offer (with or without F-mart) and then move on to another team where we could have a shot at obtaining a solid pitcher in return. If you guys love Oliver Perez, then you should be in love with the idea of getting Ian Snell who I think is a better pitcher than Perez is.
Like it. Get Snell and the rotation is set. Keep Pelfrey though (I expect the Pirates might like the Mulvey path better anyway).
I agree with both of you. I honestly think the better move is to drop 2/3rds of the prospects that have been discussed in the Santana deal and trade them instead for Lincecum, Cain, Snell or even Kazmir. If you want to expand it to include all of the guys in the deal…make it Kazmir and Crawford or Snell and Bay, etc.
I much prefer to have the ace on the rise than one who may possibly be on the decline….even if it is just the tip of the decline.
Plus…this Twins GM seems paralyzed by this move. Can’t make the decision and keeps hoping that the longer he waits…the more likely some team drops its pants.
I would contact the Pirates first and leak the story to all the press that the Mets are considering Snell and Bay for a package of prospects. It may make the Santana deal crawl back to us at a better price or it may make the O’s come looking back to us as a suitor for Bedard, etc.
One last thing. If we can not get a Cain, Lincecum, Kazmir or Snell…..I would consider a deal for Capuano of the Brewers. Talented guy who is clearly a number 3 type and learning. Controllable for a few more years etc. Would be a nice pickup in my eyes and might only cost a Mulvey and Heilman or just a Gomez plus maybe a Kunz or Rustich. To me that is far more palatable
how about gomez and oliver perez for santana
Why would the Twins want another pitcher on last year of deal like Perez is? Might as well just keep Santana.
if the mets long term johan for 20 mill and the twins long term oliver for 7 mill , it sounds like a huge savings
only problem with that is, Perez will probably get 50-100% more than that!
Hopefully from the Mets. Come on Omar, extend Perez!
My first fearless prediction for the year: If Perez doesn’t get extended pre season, he goes FA and leaves.
I posted this earlier today; I believe it could be Perez, Gomez, Mulvey or Main /Gomez /Mulvey inorder to keep Martinez/ Guerra/Humber/Pelfrey,,,,,,,, This way a quality major leauge starting pitcher in Main with more cheap years to contribute, or Perez who is a high strike out replacement,, Gomez who is arguably superior to Ellsbury, and a rookie with a hot future in Guerra could justify the exchange.
For 1)The twins could afford to sign perez longterm and justify to their fans trading Johan Santana for financial purposes
now i mention this opion because I dont think all the met top prospects will compare to a yankee Hughs led deal and the mets must aquire Johan or this off season will be a complete failure no matter what plan B,C,or D is
they dont want oliver perez, hes a free agent after the season, and in this market he will get a huge contract….same reason they dont want wang, they want young, cheap players who they can control for a long time….if martinez is the deal-breaker, you HAVE to include him…outfielders are a dime-a-dozen…if in a few years we need a left fielder, sign a jason michaels or raul ibanez or something….outfielders hit free agency all the time, but 28 year old lefties with 2 cy youngs and a fantastic reputation do not come around too often…OMAR PULL THE TRIGGER
Thats exactly what I’ve been saying! Santana’s dont come around often if ever so get him!
Supposedly, the Yankees already toyed with the idea of trading Wang and the Twins didn’t like the offer because they don’t like Wang as much as Hughes or Kennedy.
But I’m acting off of memory and can’t find a source so you’ll have to do that yourself.
and perez wont get 7 million a year, he will get more like 12-15 million a year, considering carlos silva got 4/48, and lohse is asking for AT LEAST 4/40, perez could conceivably ask for 5/55-60
Mr. Hanky, the Christmas Poo!
Seriously, this is ridiculous. And everyone’s patience is being tested even more by Cerrone’s constant posts about nothing, based on nothing, just to fuel the fire. They are just speculation, and I’m beginning to think he’s doing it just to boost his readership. More power to him this is his business but I’m just about sick of reading it.
If anyone is looking for an outsider’s view of this blog, check out some of the comments on MLBTraderumors.com. There seem to be a few others out there who don’t think that highly of him either.
you have to be patient with something as important as putting F-Mart in the deal, he could replace beltran in center field in 2 or 3 years. Beaically for one year santana is not worth the 5 prospects, let omar do his thing and johan will be a met on opening day and i will be there going absolutely insane. I believe johan will be traded before spring training and the mets are the most likley team but until hank puts in writing he wont trade for santana or until the trade is official i will be scared to death and check this site at least 20 times a day.
basically*
Beltran still has 4 years left on his deal. OF prospects are a dime a dozen.
For the last two weeks I was pretty convinced that the Omar was going to reel Johan in, but now, I’m not too sure. I am beginning to think that our only pitching acquisition will be Kyle Lohse, and I think I will be alright with that. If we aren’t going to empty to the cupboard for a pitcher like Johan I would rather align Gomez to be Beltran’s heir in CF. Joe Blanton is not the answer, Johan is Joe Blanton isn’t so why bother.
I agree. If they get Santana, it should be a fun year. But if not, and Omar can’t pry a Snell type away, then get the best #5 type to give them some depth, and let’s see what the guys on hand can do.
I do want to see the bench tweaked. I know that Omar wanted to lock up Easley and Anderson, but I think they are backed into a corner in the OF. I would rather see a real OF/1B RH power bat to back up Church and Delgado. Mench and Nady are the names that come to mind.
But, with Endy (if he can walk) do they have room? Unless they go with 6 in the pen, no.
Well, there is still a reasonable chance that someone isn’t ready for the season,so time for change.
I like Snell too, and he’s a popular name around these parts, but I just don’t think its a good fit. They’re not going to overvalue outfield prospects the way a club like the Twins or even Orioles might. They have some good young outfielders. They’re needs are primarily pitchers and a catcher, and I’m sure they wouldn’t mind another middle infielder, preferably a SS. Snell is only slightly more likely in my eyes than say Lincecum or Kazmir, who are complete and utter pipe dreams (as in will only happen if someone in SF or TB is smoking a pipe….of crack).
Please, no more ‘news’ until there is real NEWS. This goes for the media, not so much this site. I just cannot take it anymore.
Nobody knows anything. This is pathetic.
Twins STH Chiming in,
Twins have lost Hunter for $18mill a year, SIlva for $12mill a year and are moving into a new park in DT Mpls in 2010. 20 mill for Santana will be a bargain in a few years.
I expect them to go to 5 years at 20 mill (already offered 4 at 20)and do everything to keep Santana. If they unload him for prospects, fan base will revolt, in my opinion.
With him and hopefully a healthy Liriano, you have a great 1-2 lefty punch. Without him, we have no hope for 2-3 years of ever competing.
I add this note. If Twins do trade Santana, they must as well trade Joe Nathan who is at 6 mill for 08 and is a FREE agent after 08. He will command 13-15 mill as FA probably and no reason to pay that if you are going to be winning 70 games a year.
Perhaps Teams should try and package Santana and Nathan together to make a deal. I realize the Mets are set with Wagner.
Smith is in a tough spot, but if he unloads Johan, Joe is next.
Mauer, Morneau, Delmon Young are three bats 26 and younger, but without some quality SP, 70 wins will be realistic.
Frustrated Twins Fan
No need to package them; you’d get more from shipping them off separately.
I cant see them trading wang for santana, its basically giving up a 19-20 game winner for another, wang is young as well, the idea would be to have both wang and santana in there rotation. I dont see them trading Wang. I still very much believe that the yankees wil pull as fast one and snag santana with hughes.
Calm down bro. If Omar doesnt get us Santana after all this hoopla then we can all collectively bug out. Lets wait and see first. As for getting Blanton instead no thank you. He is an overated version of John Maine but worse. Rather keep our prospects and sign Colon then get raped by Beane in a deal for Blanton.
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