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In a report for the Boston Herald, Michael Silverman talks with Jim Callis and John Manuel from 
Baseball America about a variety of the prospects being mentioned in rumored deals for Johan Santana.
Regarding the Mets rumored five-player offer, which could include 19–year-old OF Fernando Martinez, Manuel says…
“(Martinez’s) offensive potential is significant. (He’s) a special offensive player…he can do anything he wants offensively.”
…i’m certain the Mets will do all they can to keep martinez…and for the same reasons the Mets prefer to keep him, the Twins almost certainly will want to acquire him…
Martinez was ranked by Baseball America as the Mets top prospect, while writing…
“His upside remains tremendous…Minaya says Martinez is on the same track as players such as Juan Gonzalez, Ivan Rodriguez and Sammy Sosa, all of whom reached the majors by age 20…His bat ultimately will be his calling card, and the Mets see him as a future 30-homer threat.”
In 60 injury-shortened games for Double-A Binghamton this past year, when most kids his age were their senior-year of high school, Martinez hit .271 with four HR.
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“If the Twins wanted to roll the dice, the Mets’ offer could be the best deal.
So now the Mets have gone from having sub-par prospects to having possibly the best deal to offer the Twins if they offer up F-Mart.
Amazing.
All he does in his ESPN chats is say the Mets don’t have a package to get Santana..
Welcome to the waffle iron Jim Callis…
While I’d love to keep the guy, I personally couldn’t justify keeping him in favor of Santana.
I could if it involved giving up him, Gomez, Humber, Mulvey, and Guerra. That’s simply too much.
I don’t think it is.. almost exactly the same package the d backs gave up for Haren..
Sure he’s cheaper.. but Johan is better.
Also too much.
Yeah well.. they won the NL West and added a 1/2 guy to go along with Webb.. and kept Upton, Drew and Chris Young in the process..
I bet they’re quite happy.
what is TOO much when you need something badly?
Wait……….Holy Crap the TWINS are looking to trade Santana?
Please, this sucks!
Matt’s posted this before. Maybe he’s trying to put this out there in hopes someone from Minnesota reads this and convinces Bill Smith to take the Mets offer. Good thinking, Matt! ;)
he’s never posted THIS before per say…
but many articles similar talkin about his high ceiling
Here is the Lastings Milledge report from 2005, he was 20 at the time:
” first thing scouts mention about Milledge is his lightning-quick bat speed. Milledge boasts one of the fastest bats in the minor leagues, allowing him to wait on pitches longer than most. He uses the entire field and has the strength to hit for average as well as power once he matures as a hitter. He made very good adjustments after he moved from high Class A St. Lucie to Binghamton, improving his pitch recognition. It’s still unclear as to whether Milledge profiles better at the top or in the middle of the order. He has above-average speed that he uses to his advantage on the bases and in center field, and he also has a plus arm. With his package of five tools, Milledge has few peers in the minors, and he has produced throughout his minor league career.”
Two years later.. well.. Ryan Church and Brian Scheinder…
They are prospects people.. nothing is guaranteed… I say you do it for Johan.
F-Mart was touted higher than Milledge from the first day they signed him. No scout ever said Milledge was the better prospect. Yeah nothing is a guarantee. Neither was Wright, Reyes, Pujols or A-Rod.
Really?
That’s why Milledge was #1 in 2005, and F-mart was 7th?
His scouting report his frist year hardly sounds like he’s moure “touted” then Milledge:
“Martinez’ hitting approach is well beyond his years. He maintains his balance very well while keeping his hands back in his stance. His bat and power are both plus tools, and he’s a good athlete with solid speed and arm strength.”
I think A-Rod as the first overall pick was a pretty sure thing…
F-Mart didnt even play in the states in ‘05….’06 was his first pro-season (due to age) and THAT is why Milledge was ranked higher!!!
Milledge graduated to the majors in 06 and the two haven’t been compared since..
The point of all is.. is if it was 20 year old Milledge being discussed for Santana.. with the scouting report I posted… there will be all kinds of people on here saying he’s not worh Santana.. just like he wasn’t worth Ramirez and Barry Zito..
As it turns out he was worth Ryan Church and Barry Zito…
And now here we go again.. putting a 19 year old on a pedastal.. and Mets fan saying they;d rather wait 3 years to see if he succeeds.. instead of becoming the NL East Favorite th is year, with Johan in his prime..
that should of course read Ryan Church and Brian Schneider*
The Mets won’t include him in the deal and you would. That’s because the Mets know more than you do.
The mets wouldnt include Milledge in a deal for Barry Zito or Manny Ramirez but would for Ryan Church and Brian Scheinder
And they traded Kazmir for Victor Zamrbano.. you’re right.. they never mis-evaluate talent..
And if we do get Johan, it will be cause we did include F-mart
The Manny thing had much more to do with taking on his salary than giving up Milledge and Heilman for him, at the time.
Lets not go to Kazmir, that was Duquette.
Milledge is better than what the Mets got for him. Yes they should have moved him earlier … but to make him out to be a bust is unfair. His value went down because of his rep, not his talent.
If we don’t get Johan, I’ll live. If we do and we trade F-Mart, I’ll live. Some people just take this too seriously, maybe.
…and Milledge was never asked for along with 4 other top prospects for one player, by the way.
They are still Mets decisions.. and neither salary or whoever was acting as GM at the time defends the quality, or lack there of, of those moves…
The days of Humber being a top prospect are long over.. he couldn’t even last 5 against the nationals last year.. and is a mid to back end starter..
Ditto for Mulvey.. hasn’t pitched a day in the bigs and already projects mid rotation…
Guerrera could be anything..
Gomez has been called everythinf on this blog from a pinch to runner to a top prospect.. and we’ve already discussed F-mart at nasuem..
With 3 first round picks on the way, and I’m sure a few international signings.. why not go get the sure thing… this team is ready to win now.. not maybe 4 years from now.
Yeah so you are now trashing all our prospects, yet you complain about Kazmir in the same breath. You complain about the evaluation yet you are ready for the same evaluators to replenish the farm with the draft picks.
You have no patience. That’s the problem.
OK. So you don’t like our prospects, they are all trash. That’s fine. I’ll disagree with you there.
White meat, that is kind of silly about Humber. It was his first ML start, and he hadn’t pitched more than an inning or 2 in about 3 weeks.
And he still pitched 4 pretty good innings before he gassed in the 5th.
And you want to write him off based on that?
Look at the first start for some of the best SPs in history, and I guarantee you will see some serious ugly.
Now, that doesn’t mean he will be an Ace anytime soon, but it also doesn’t make him a stiff.
Exactly stick, the guy had surgery and worked his way back … then they sat him for 2 weeks before that start. It was a stamina issue.
I didn’t call him a stiff.. I called him a mid rotation starter..
Again.. let’s go back to BA as I think we can all agree they know better then us..
On Humber:
“Humber is likely ready for on-the-job training in the majors, but he’ll have to earn the spot in spring training. He now projects as a back-of-the-rotation starter.”
All I said that he projects a back of the rotation starter.. that’s it..which is not a top prospect.. I’m sorry but it doesn’t. it doesn’t mean I don’t have any paitenece.. it’s just the truth..
Ditto for Mulvey.. from BA:
“He’ll open 2008 in Triple-A, but Mulvey could get a look in the rotation by midseason. He projects as a No. 3 or 4 starter.”
I agree that Gomez, Martinez, and Guerra could be anywhere from great to irrelevant.. that’s all I said..
Just cause I don’t agree with you, doesn’t mean I’m impatient or anything else.
ok I agree with there just prospects lingo, especially when it comes to aquiring Johan Santana, the best of the best, however for sits&giggles, pull up a report on Reyes and Wright and how they looked in AA.
Funny how no one brings those names up too much in this discussion, right?
People wanted Reyes traded too. Good thing they didn’t run the team back then.
It’s not a matter of not bringing him up.. Baseball America only keeps their top 10 on their site since 2004.. When our top 10 was (get ready to laugh)
1.Lastings Milledge (well all know what happend to him)
2. Yueresemo Petit (Traded, and then cut by the team he was traded too)
3. Gaby Hernandez (Traded for LoDuca)
4. Ian Bladerogren (Traded for Doug Minkeivetch)
5. Ambriox Conception (I dunno what happened to that guy)
6. Alay Soler (Cut last year, not with the Pirtes)
7. Shawn Bowman (I think hes still a met?)
8. Victor Diaz ( Was just signed by the Astros, traded last year)
9. Jesus Flores (Left un protected in the rule V, went to the Nats for free)
10. Matt Lindstrom (Traded last year along with Henry Owens for Jason Vargas and Adam Bostick)
Wow.. so you wouldn’t give 5 of those guys up for Johan?
D Wright and Jose are like 1 in 100 shots each.. if I can fid a scotuing report on D-Wright and Reyes I will certainly post it here.
Here we go..I found it:
Wright was 2nd behind Scott Kazmir (ouch!)
Background: Considered one of the best pure hitters in the 2001 draft, Wright quickly showed that he also has an advanced knowledge of the strike zone to go with his power potential. Wright led the Florida State League with 56 extra-base hits in 2003, ranking third in slugging percentage and fourth in on-base percentage.
Strengths: At his best, Wright is a scout’s dream. He flashes the potential to be a .300 hitter with 25-30 homers and 80-plus walks. He makes all the plays at third base. He’s one of the best in the minors at charging bunts and choppers, and he also shows a major league arm with good accuracy. Wright has average speed and runs the bases well. He responds to instruction well.
Weaknesses: In each of his two full pro seasons, Wright has been a very streaky hitter. In 2003, he hit .200 through May and June. He works so hard before games that he wore himself out, and the Mets think he’ll be more consistent now that they’ve gotten him to pace himself.
The Future: Wright has steadily moved one level at a time, which should continue in 2004 as he heads to Double-A. He could push for the Mets’ third-base job at the end of 2005.
And here’s Reyes from when he was 1st overall in 2003:
Background: After finishing fifth in the low Class A South Atlantic League batting race in 2001, when he was the youngest regular in any full-season league, Reyes was even better in 2002. He stood out in big league camp before reporting to the high Class A Florida State League, where he earned a quick promotion to the Double-A Eastern League. Managers in both leagues rated him the top defensive shortstop, strongest infield arm and most exciting player. He also was MVP at the Futures Game after stroking a bases-loaded triple, appropriate, as Reyes led all minor leaguers with 19 triples while ranking fifth in runs and sixth in steals. He has emerged as the best shortstop prospect in the game.
Strengths: Reyes surprises people with his solid physique. His dedication to improving his strength, along with natural maturation, have transformed him from a skinny kid into an impressive specimen. He drives the ball more consistently to all fields. Reyes’ plate discipline improved in high Class A before slipping after he reported to Double-A. He’s an excellent baserunner with plus speed. He has demonstrated Gold Glove ability throughout his career, with a strong arm and tremendous range.
Weaknesses: Reyes needs to make improvements that should come with experience. He’ll need more consistent strike-zone discipline to succeed against better pitching and to become the true leadoff hitter the Mets need. Reyes also is prone to making youthful mistakes in the field, though part of that stems from his exuberance. While he’s a prolific basestealer, he can become more effective after getting caught 24 times last year.
The Future: Reyes is the Mets’ best everyday prospect since Darryl Strawberry blazed through the system in the early 1980s. Though the organization shuns comparisons to other players, Reyes’ all-around ability and athleticism remind scouts of Alfonso Soriano. The Mets unloaded Rey Ordonez to the Devil Rays in December, clearing the way for Reyes in the long term. The club did sign Rey Sanchez as a stopgap to give Reyes some time in Triple-A to make final preparations for New York, if he needs it.
I guess its subjective if you think F-marts report is more or less impressive then these…
Come on EWM, you posting that list doesn’t prove anything except that the farm was a lot worse off then it is now.
You only say that cause of how they turned out… which is exactly my point.. and I posted that list because I couldn’t find the scouting reports… which I posted once I found…
No, none of those guys on that list (Milledge aside) were as highly touted as F-Mart, Gomez, Pelfrey, Humber and Guerra. I’m sorry, they were not.
Pelfrey.. perfect example…is there a bigger disapointment then Mike Pelfrey to hammer home my point???
I will quote John Manuel again so I don’t get attacked..
Pelfrey pre: 2007
“Though he needs better command of his secondary stuff, there’s little left for Pelfrey to prove in the minors. With Martinez out until at least the all-star break, Pelfrey will definitely be in the mix for the Opening Day rotation. He should be in the Mets rotation for years to come and has the potential to be a legitimate No. 1 starter.”
Pelfrey post 2007:
“Mike Pelfrey, who signed for a club-record $3.55 million bonus as a first-round pick in 2005, went 3-8, 5.57 and failed to keep the No. 5 starter’s job.”
They rushed him … just like they rushed Milledge and Gomez. That’s what you’re failing to recognize.
And by the way.. I don’t think Pelfrey is mentioned in the Twins deal?
I though it was Gomez, Guerra, Mulvey, and Humber.. with F-mart being the player in question.
I wasn’t talking about the Twins deal, which by the way was a false rumor that the Minnesota papers put out there. I was just making a comparison to our prospects now and then. You missed the point.
They rushed him? Ok.. sure.. so scouts say he has nothing left to prove in the minors.. but when he gets hammered in the majors.. they rushed him…
They rushed him. He was not ready. His secondary pitches STILL need work and his mental approach needs a lot of maturing. He needed more work.
I’m pretty sure back in the day we had big visions of Petit.. who was called “our best pitching prospect other then Scott Kazmir”
“Petit has dominated at every step up the ladder. He has struck out more than a batter an inning in all six minor league stops, finishing second in the minors with 200 whiffs in 2004. He followed up with a strong winter in Venezeula.”
The start is already off Humber… I’m not sure how you can aruge he’s anything but a 3-5 guy anymore…
And we both agree Gomez or Guerra could be anything…
I will post the BA top 100 when it comes out.. we’ll see how they stack up outside the organization..
Petit was a pitcher that people talked about but was never on the level of Pelf or Humber.
I never said anything about what Humber is or is not … I just said that you trashed him based on one major league start.
Guerra is supposedly a more highly valued prospect now than Petit was when we had him. Petit was never our “top pitching prospect”.
Petit was indeed our top pitching prospect.. in 2004 AND 2005…
everytime I post the links to the rankings the post doesn’t appear.. and you need a BA login to see it.. but that’s a direct quote..
On Dec 30th, 2004, BA Wrote:
“The trade of Scott Kazmir left Petit as the Mets’ best pitching prospect. He’ll likely begin 2005 in Double-A.”
The fact that humber was once a top prospect, and now projects in the mid to back end rotiation is not me trashing him, sadly it’s just the truth.. and yes.. he couldn’t go 5 innings against the last place washington nationals.. that is also fact.
Guerra also didn’t make last year’s top 100.. again once they put them out.. I’ll post them to see.. I think he’s so young that it’s the reason he has projection.. but also leaves lots of room for him to falter along the way…
Yeah because Kazmir was traded and nothing was left. Top pitching prospect by default but by no means a “top pitching prospect”.
Yeah he couldn’t go 5 innings against washington, you’re right that is a fact. But you leave out other facts like his 2 week layoff prior to that start, as stickguy pointed out.
Humber projects that way because of Tommy John Surgery. Projections can change quickly. We’ll see how he’s throwing this year, if he’s still a Met.
EWM, I’m leaving work soon so if you respond and I don’t reply it’s because I’m gone. I appreciate the discussion.
Ha sorry I did leave work.. and didn’t give you the heads up… but you’re also hurting my head.. even when top scouts call him our top pitching prospect..he’s still not a top pitching prospect.. are you running for office this year??? Shouldn’t you be in Michigan right now?
I would think we had high hopes for our 2nd best overall pitching prospect…
I think the recently renewed story about the Mets’ interest in Bedard is an effort on behalf of the Mets to force Bil Smith’s hand and get him to jump at making a deal. The same can be said of the Martinez story. Only time will tell if this is an effective strategy.
Trade em…we can get more prospects that will be “amazing” with our 3 picks in the draft….
come on already its like watching a pot of water boil!!!
i considermyself a optimistic met fan i just hope we can catch the proverbial lightening in a bottle and win if we don’t get mr. santanabanana
it will break my heart if our last season in shea is a total bust
somewhere in heaven mrs payson, casey gil and bill shea will be sheding a tear if it is a lost season
Although I would love to get Santana on the team - I do not know if the mets really need him. They have the 2008 Cy Young award winner already in Oliver Perez :)
I dont really believe that - but I do wish it! I also wanted to show off my new blog. I am just starting it, and there is only 10 or 11 posts, but I hope to keep it up. Check out out - comments appreciated!
http://oliverperezfan.blogspot.com
AAAAARRRRRGGGGGGHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!
Let it be done or not done already!
The metaphor about watching water boil in a pot describes the feeling completely.
Twins, stop pulling our chain!
You know you have to move him so do it already!
To the mets or wherever!
I want to read about something else online already!
(Not Britney Spears or Steroids either)
We may have more of an advantage with the O’s if they are not pissed at Omar or something. What is that advantage? The O’s have some horrible contracts that we could take on.
How about Gomez, Mulvey, Humber, Guerra, Smith, Heilman for Bedard, Cabrerra, Bradford and Mora? Bradford and Mora would be salary dumps that would reduce the O’s salary by 25 million over the next 2 years.
Now that’s the type of mega deal I want to see.
Did anyone else notice that Omar compared Martinez to the 3 biggest steroid abusers of the past 15 years?
Um, maybe he wants to try & use another player as an example. Considering that without the juice, these 3 wouldn’t be anywhere near the players they became.
shhhhhh FMart hasn’t come off his “cycle” yet that is how Omar got these guys to be All Stars when he recruited them.
Don’t you know it all leads back to Omar
….BALCO…..B12injections……Palmerio……….Canseco……Tejada…..Sosa….McGwire……Clemens….Radomski……and McNamee they all lead back to OMAR its a conspiracy man a conspiracy!!!!!!
Well, at 20, Gonzalez and Sosa were lea kids that could run too.
Does anyone know of any video of F Mart posted on the internet?
search fernando martinez on you tube. there’s some footage there.
batting stance doesnt mean much, but jus mentioning, he looks like a lefty manny ramirez in the box.
This is what I was worried about for a week. Omar doesn’t throw in FMart and now the Twins are stirring the pot with the Yanks and the Red Sox offers are still on the table. So I guess Omar will not get Santana if he continues not to add FMart to the other 4 prospects on the table.
Great. We all can sit around and see the Mets come in third in the division ….no playoffs….BUT we’ll have great prospects to go to Syracuse and watch in 2009.
Are we more interested in winning a triple A title or are we trying to have the best team on the field in 2008.
GSHHHHHH!
DO OT OMAR don’t let it slip………….slide away!!!!!!!!!! That should be the Mets motto for 2008:
COME SEE THE METS SLIP SLIDE AWAY TODAY BUT HAVE A GREAT MINOR LEAGUE FARM SYSTEM FOR TOMORROW
Rember that, with prospects, it isn’t just about if they become stars. It is also about what else you can do with them.
having guys to call up in an emergency is improtant.
having well regarded prospects to trade is important.
If you give them all up for 1 guy, then you don’t have them for other purposes.
People talk about Petit, etc. as worthless because they didn’t pan out. Well, they were valuable to the mets, since these are guys that turned into players like Piazza, Delgado and LoDuca.
“…he can do anything he wants offensively”——-
–So he WANTED?! to hit .270 without much extra-base power and have NO impact at AA ?— Doesn’t sound very
motivated now , does it??
This is Johan Santana we’re talkin’ about trading for here!
You give the Twinkies any or all of the latest “prospects”
they’ve been discussing to have Santana on the hill opening
day 2008!
bottom line if these guys arent worth the best player at the most important position in baseball than you cant argue trading them at all bc nothing they realistically could bring back will be better than johan santana.
Does anyone remember can’t miss 5-toolers like Alex Escobar, Alex Ochoa, future Cy Young candidates like David West? Minor leaguers, even at AAA, are a far cry from money in the bank. Santana is, simply, the best pitcher in the game. I don’t think he’s yet achieved his potential, he’s approaching, but no yet in, his prime, he wants to be in Shea. Knowing what I know now, I’d trade a Strawberry for him in a New York minute. OF’s are much, much easier to come by. Ace pitchers are the scarcest of commodities.
Also, I don’t think Humber or Pelfrey are going to be anything special - back of the rotation guys. They’re not really a threat to be aces.
Amen Steve !
I get it ……we should keep these prospects so we can use them in a trade in the future when they are more valuable than they are now. Maybe we can trade them for a starting pitcher at that time …….maybe he will be the best left handed pitcher in the majors at that time ……..maybe he will be under 30………….maybe he will be illing to sign an expensive 6 year contract………..
DUH
Forget the Santana Show…it’s not going to happen….let’s focus in the team we have now…….let’s focus in our prospect to get ready for the next few years and get a 1B because Delgado doesn’t have too much!!!! in 2009 Gomez in LF and Martinez in RF.
Jose
Castillo
David
Beltran
Gomez
Martinez
MMMMMM maybe texeira is a good thing!!!!
But Piching going to be the same problem…..
martinez will be hitting above gomez….martinez is the one that can do ‘anything he wants offensively’…remember?
weren’t all 3 of the players mentioned linked to steriod use?? hopefully fmart is not their exact path…..