According to Impacto Deportivo, free-agent LHP Odalis Perez will meet with executives from the Mets, who had been scouting him this winter in the Dominican Republic.
In 26 starts for the Royals last season, Perez was 8–11 with a 5.57 ERA through 137 innings, during which he struck out 64 and walked 50.
He has not finished a season with an ERA below 4.00 since 2004, when he was 7–6 with a 3.25 ERA in 31 starts for the Dodgers.
…if i recall right, the Mets looked in to perez the last time he was a free agent, after that 2004 season…however, i do not believe talks ever progressed beyond a brief meeting, and he ended up signing a three-year deal with the Dodgers, during which he went 21–26 and was traded to the Royals…
…he’s an intriguing pitcher, especially if he’s just a minor-league invitee…he’s got a strong fastball, and a pretty impressive curve ball at times…however, like a lot these type of pitchers, he leaves way, way too many pitches up, which get teed off on like it’s batting practice…he’s got the talent, but something just doesn’t seem to click for him…
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Oh god, no. I would rather see chan Ho again.
Maybe Omar got confused. He is supposed to be extending Ollie perez, not Odalais.
I was going to come in just to post “Oh god, no.”
Thank you for taking care of that for me.
He doesn’t intrigue me at all. He has pretty much stunk wherever he has been. His “potential” is pretty much used up, as far as I am concerned.
Odalis would be a GREAT addition. He has NEVER got any run support with any team. The Mets could provide this. No one gets run support in KC and he had 18 “no decisions” prior to that in LA in 2005; A team that averaged scoring 2 runs or less for him….. A lefty with his ability could be invaluable.
It’s Odalis Time!
no thanks.
it’s slowly creeping toward the start of the season without addressing the need for a solid starter (at least #3) and a good reliever.
sanchez certainly may give a lift in the pen, but you can’t count on him coming off an injury. in fact, after his unbelievable april in ‘06 he was pretty good, but not dominant:
april 16ip 0r
may 18.1ip 10r 8er
june 9.1ip 6r 5er
july 11ip 3r
Ok, if it is only a minor league deal, why not? he cant be any worse than brian lawrence or chan ho park, and good teams need pitching depth…if it is ONLY a minor league deal, and ONLY one year, why not
the problem is the mets actually use these minor league deal player during the season. in ‘06 it was lima and jeremi gonzalez. in ‘07 it was park and lawrence.
it’s not like they only give them starts if they’re good. the mets start them even though we all know they’ll get bombed. over and over again.
i’d rather see pelfrey or humber even mulvey get those starts
Perfectly said. Those who see no harm are missing the reality of this organization and Willie. Willie will use Lima/Lawrence/Odalis over somebody inexperienced because he knows what to expect with these guys. After all, a guarantied loss is better than the unpredictable…
Those situations were kinda different. In 06 we were stuck with Lima at the time because the kids weren’t ready and we really had no better options (Maine had gotten hurt in his first start)
And in 2007 we had already given Pelfrey a shot and he was ineffective and Humber was dealing with food poisoning at the time, meaning that Lawrence was our best option at that point in time (Sadly enough), unless your advocating rushing Mulvey.
Next year we figure to have Pelfrey, Humber, and Mulvey sitting there in AAA (Or Johan Santana heading our rotation). Either situation lessens the need for someone like Odalis Perez.
And lets not forget that we also got people like Darren Oliver and Jorge Sosa on these Minor league Contracts, No risk, A bit of upside, type moves. If Perez turns into this years version of Sosa then it’s a great move.
Yes, we have guys this season like Humber and Mulvey, but what if we end up landing Santana? Then those guys are gone and this signing becomes decent minor league depth. I am just praying this is a prelude to a Santana deal, or else this singing is useless.
But isn’t the reason we signed Lawrence and Park that they “couldn’t be any worse than Jose Lima?”
This guy can’t possibly be looking for more than an incentive-laden minor league deal. If that’s the case, screw it. Throw him at the wall, see if he sticks.
I think our pitching will be fine to start the season, and may even surprise.
My bigger concern is the dead wood at the bottom of the order in Church and Schneider.
We can kiss those bottom of the order rallies good bye. Its going to be similar to the Rey-O days again. Still not sure why the Mets did this.
Dead wood? Oh, yeah right. Because Church had a higher OPS than either Green or Milledge last year. That makes a lot of sense.
Schneider is basically a wash with LoDuca from an offensive standpoint.
seriously, stop the nonsense, you’re basing your arguement on hearsay, not actual facts. Church is not only a better offensive player then both milledge and green, but his defense is far superior to both of those two. As for Shneider, Lo Duca sucked last year, sure Schneider won’t be hitting towering HR’s and smacking doubles every which way, but what are we missing that Lo Duca provided besides weak singles, double plays, and a penchant to unraveled?
well said
bout time someone competent spoke on Church
Plus, the plan is to give Castro a decent amount of playing time. And logically, it will come with a LH pitcher going.
I don’t have them handy, but someone posted Schneiders splits, and he did pretty good against RH pitching. Take out some of the ABs against lefties, and his numbers should improve and be at least as good as Loduca.
This will be an interesting year, since those 2 switched jobs. Wonder who is going to have the better year>
it should be interesting to take a look at, but clearly Milledge is still learning on the job and the Mets couldn’t afford that, Church is much more polished, especially defensively, which is something Milledge truly was lacking instincts at, plus, his offense is clearly better at this point, and could improve in a better park. Milledge still can’t lay off an outside breaking ball while Schneider has shown decent patience at the plate. As for Schneider, I agree, its a perfect semi-platoon situation with him and Castro. Also, Schneider gets on base at a decent clip compared to his batting avg., which means he’s taking walks. If he hits against lefties more, his BA will improve, and so will his OBP, because of the consistent walking. We also won’t have the rally killer known as the DP as often because Schneider is willing to take a walk, while Lo Duca’s game was all about putting the ball in play, which he became increasingly worse at doing, with less and less power. I think the odds favor us, especially for this next year, unless Milledge puts it together and Lo Duca has come back year, all kind of doubtful.
Well said indeed. Church’s defense and offense production vs. righties is an upgrade for next year.
We do need a rightly bat to team with him. His career #s vs. lefties are lame. Even if we still have Gomez, he shouldn’t be that guy. He needs consistent ABs, and he’d be sitting most of the time.
Pagan makes more sense in that role, but he’s never impressed me much.
To be fair Green was pretty solid against righties, their OPS against righties was virtually identical in 2008. Church provided a bit more pop and Green a bit more OBP.
However, Shawn Green was the anti-clutch. Check this out:
Shawn Green with a runner on third and less than two outs:
21 ABs 13 RBIs .286 avg .286 slg
Ryan Church:
43 ABs 23 RBIs .440 / .720
Bases loaded:
Green: .276 / .364
Church: .385 / .538
Also because Schneider bats left-handed, Castro will see a lot more time, thus making up for whatever offensive deficiencies Schneider has. Besides, not having to bat against lefties will make Schneider’s numbers look even better.
bringing in Odalis Perez for a minor league deal would be a great move. No risk, potential reward, the guy was a good pitcher a few years back. Remember, we brought in Oliver Perez and he was “damaged goods,” so there’s no guarantee Peterson couldn’t fix him and bring him back to being at least serviceable, if not better. Granted, the chances are low, but that’s why they call it a no risk, potential reward move and I would appluad if Omar brought in Odalis.
The big annyoance would be having jerseys with Od. Perez and Ol. Perez if he were to make the roster, to me, that would be annoying! :)
The Mets Jersey’s don’t do initials in the case of multiple players with the same last name…remember Anderson, Roberto, and Orlando Hernandez all on the same team in 06, each just had Hernandez on the back, no initals.
good call, I forgot that, when they had the 3 Hernandez jerseys in the 2006 playoffs.
For some reason though, I feel like I’ve seen an O. Hernandez jersey at some point as a Met, but maybe I’m mistaken.
There was also Bobby Jones and Bobby Jones in 2000!
Peterson does not fix pitchers! He’s a mediocre pitching coach whose best skill is supposed to be keeping pitchers healthy, and he hasn’t even done a good job at that since he’s been here.
He doesn’t fix them? The heavy majority of them are worse without him. Bradford and Oliver saw their ERA’s raise last year. Back with Oakland, Barry Zito and Mark Mulder both regressed without him. People like John Maine and Oliver Perez were picked up as throw-ins in deals and turned into a very legit #2-3 pitchers, and countless other examples.
I think his track record speaks for itself. Is he 100%? Hell no, but most people do better with Peterson then they do without Peterson, and that’s gotta be worth something.
dead wood? I’m sorry did Lastings/Green/Gomez & Loduca put up better #’s last year…no probbably worse…
also, sign as many Odalis types to minor league deasl as you can….THIS is where having $$ comes in handy…not for guys like Livan who we have to guarantee $ to and sucks…but no harm in bringing ain as many arms as possible…
Also, what was Ollie’s ERA before the Mets got him? Over 7?
I agree, people are going to be pleasantly surprised from what Church can give us at the bottom of the order. He’s another Chavez type of hitter who rarely hits HR’s but he hits gaps and puts the ball in play. I don’t recall when the Mets got Chavez if the fans on here were happy or not but they are happy we have him now and I think Church will give people the same feeling. I predict a .280 avg, 40 doubles, 18 HR, 80 RBI, 50 BB season. Thats fine from the 7th or 8th hole in my book.
The Mets didn’t give up a 22 year old outfielder with tons of potential to get Chavez. He was signed off the scrap heap. You can talk all you want about about how Church outperformed Green and Milledge last year. But that’s last year. From here on out, Milledge will be the better player.
Pure speculation. Let’s revisit this topic mid-season or towards the end of the year.
Since when has potential ever been able to hit a curve ball?
Somewhat nice post, but Church is a way better player then someone like Chavez. Keep in mind that while Church wasn’t hitting a ton of Home Runs, it was because he was playing in RFK. Getting to a more normal park like Shea should help him signifcantly improve his numbers. I think he’s capable of hitting .280/25/90 for this team, and yes, that will be a better line then Milledge puts up in 2008.
Church’s SLG% is about 90 points higher than Endy’s and his OPS is avoer 130 points higher. I love Endy, but comparing him and Church in terms of offensive abilities is silly.
exactly…a pitcher with good stuff without a guaranteed contract is smart. Maybe if Peterson can teach him to throw below the line….even if he doesn’t n o loss, just a ST invitee…
If they don’t trade for Santana, they better give the kids a chance or there was no reason to protect those prospects in the first place. Let Humber, Mulvey and Pelfrey battle it out for the fifth spot and back up Pedro and El Duque. Forget about Odalis Perez. He also was not very popular with teammates wherever he went.
Please not another year of being short starting pitching, giving kids a chance, and “going with what we’ve got”. Have the last two years not been enough to avoid going down that route at all costs?
Since when did they really give kids a chance? Besides Pelfrey? If they had, we wouldn’t have had to stomach Lawrence, Williams, Park, Lima and even Mota the last 2 years
VC, what youth have we held back? We’ve given a chance to everyone who earned a chance.
Bannister and Humber. It would also be nice to have seen Collazo and Muniz more during the year instead of having to go to Mota nad Sele all the time.
Other than Pelfrey, there have been no kids! Humber was returning from injury, Mulvey and Guerra were in diapers!
We gave Bannister a shot. He was pitching well until his injury. When he came back after recovering, he pitched poorly and was moved to the pen. We then traded him for another young pitcher with more upside. How did we not give him a chance?
Humber had thrown just 78 innings in 2006. He pitched 146 in 2007. COming back from an arm injury, it’s obvious the Mets were careful not to push Phil. It would have been unwise for the Mets to ask any more innings from Humber.
Well I disagree. I felt they didn’t give Bannister a chance for 2007, instead trading him off. In terms of 2006, Bannister came back from an injury and got all of 1 start. Not only was he probably not in the best game shape, but how can you tell off of one start? As for a pitcher with more upside, that pitcher had a fatal flaw — it’s called not being able to find the plate! Not much upside there.
As for Humber, I don’t think not wanting to push him was the issue at all. I think it’s that Omar doesn’t think too highly of him. He tends to favor the players that he obtains himself over those obtained by previous GMs. Humber unfortunately fell into that group. He was pitching well enough to have gotten the callup during the second half of last year. But instead they trotted out Lawrence and Williams. Why???
They expect other teams to like our prospects when in general, they don’t even seem to like them all that much themselves.
As far as Burgos’ fatal flaw: see Perez, Oliver. I’d wager that Bannister doesn’t have nearly the same success this upcoming season that he had last year… His BABIP was incredibly low, indicating that he had “luck” on his side. He’s due to level off.
We’ll have to agree to disagree on Humber. More than doubling the workload of a kid just a year removed from recovering from Tommy John surgery is very risky. Doubling the workload of ANY pitcher Humber’s age from one season to the next is incredibly risky. There were serious concerns that Humber had a dead arm as his velocity dropped 4-5 MPH in his last few starts at AAA. That’s legitimate cause for concern. Let’s not forget that the organization had enough faith in him to give him the start in that critical game against Washington.
I’d also add that the consensus among baseball insiders (those with ties to front offices) is that the Mets like their prospects TOO MUCH.
Ollie at least has a head on his shoulders. I should have added that. I’ve said here before that Burgos had a low pitching IQ and that combined with his wildness is his fatal flaw. Bannister OTOH was known to be thinking pitcher and he had a sterling pedigree. I bet that Bannister has another solid year, even if may not be as good as the one he had last year. I think BABIP is an incredibly shaky statistic and I don’t put too much credence into it.
Humber was more than a year removed from TJ surgery. Your timing is way off. Most pitchers are able to handle nearly a full workload after about a year. There was no reason to think he wouldn’t be able to in 2007. Where did you see that his velocity dropped at New Orleans? Have a link? I don’t believe it. Tell me, did it drop right before he threw the near no-hitter … or right after it? LOL.
The organization misused him at the end of the year. You don’t ask a pitcher to make a critical start after he’s basically sat around for two weeks. He had a few relief appearances and that’s it. If anything, that’s a reckless move.
The Mets like their prospects too much when it comes time for trade talks. But during the year, they neglect many of them in favor of washed up old tired veterans.
I said a year removed from recovering from Tommy John surgery. The full workload he had in 2006, returning from injury? 74 innings. You wouldn’t ask a guy to throw 140+ innings after having thrown just 70 innings the season prior, most of which came battling through a sore elbow. Having pitched just 70 or so innings in 2006, 140 was a reasonable total to have expected last season, It’s an organizational philosophy to not push pitchers too far into uncharted IP totals… Many franchises share this philosophy, which is why you often see young, hot-shot pitchers shut down towards the end of the season.
As for a link to Humber’s velocity drop, you’ll have to research that yourself or choose to disbelieve me. It was pretty widely reported on BA and I believe discussed at BP. The drop was gradual during the course of the second half of the season, yes, including the near no-no. If you can’t find any relevant links yourself, I’m sure other prospect in-tune posters here can vouch for me. Or disbelieve me, your call.
The organization did manage him poorly otwards the end of the season–that’s not in dispute. The question is how much the organization “likes” him.
Please, name me a prospect other than Humber who has been held back by a retread veteran? This organization, in Minaya’s tenure, has been noted for their propensity to RUSH prospects.
Also let me point out that many pitchers require TWO full season to recover from Tommy John surgery (Bedard, Capuano, McGowan, Wood, etc..), not one as you suggest.
I was talking about 2007. That’s more than a year removed from TJ surgery. There’s no need to baby him at that point. Sure, you can expect about 150 innings out of him, and why not have most or at least a good amount of those innings come at the major league level? And where did you read he had a sore elbow in 2006? C’mon, stop over-dramatizing his comeback. It wasn’t anything unusual. It’s also the philosophy of many organizations to push young pitchers as far as they can go the first year, and then back off at the end if they need a rest. The rest is planned for. And no one is saying they needed to push Humber. He was pitching anyway. So just bring him up instead of Park, Lawrence, Vargas and Williams who all stunk.
Until I see a link from a respected site/source, then I’m not going to believe this nonsense about the drop in velocity. Besides, most pitchers throughout the year experience dead arm periods. That’s nothing new. The fact is, Humber was pitching the best at the end of the year when this supposed drop was taking place. And he should have been brought up to make some of the spot starts.
I named three — Humber, Bannister, and Linstrom. Muniz and Collazo are two others who probably should have been utilized better at the major league level but weren’t.
And please, tell me all the prospects Omar has rushed to the majors?
Two years is not the norm. Most pitchers recover from TJ surgery sooner. And Bedard is a bad example. The year he had his surgery he had it done in September/. A year from that and the season wold have been over anyway. So even if he was ready, there was nowhere to pitch.
And back to Humber’s 2006. Where are you getting that he had a sore arm most of that year? Stop making things up. He pitched well in the minors that year and there was no indication he had anything wrong with his arm.
And I was talking about 2005 as the year he pitched with a sore elbow, when he was pitching through an injury prior to needing the TJ.
Seriously, you can call it nonsense, but it’s the truth. If you have a subscription to BA or BP, check them, it’s there; my subscription ran out at seasons end, so I no longer have access to those in-depth articles. It’s also on Rotowire, which is subscription only. There’s tons of anecdotal evidence at places like Prospect Geek, Mets Prospectus, and MinorLeagueBall. I’m sure you’ll dismiss the anecdotal references to established sources though, so I’m not even going to bother citing them.
Collazo? Are you kidding me? Pitchers like him are a dime a dozen at the AAA level: good control, crappy stuff. Two years from now everyone will have completely forgotten his name.
Muniz I agree with. He should have been given more of a look. Eddie Camacho as well. As for Lindstrom and Bannister, read my post below.
Omar hasn’t been here long enough to rush prospects to the majors, especially considering that the higher levels of the system were essentially barren when he took over. We’re noted for aggressively pushing our prospects up the ladder- Martinez, Guerra, Carp, Smith, etc..
Humber had great numbers in 2006 in his 70 inings.
Actually, for the PCL, he did well in 2007 also.
It is not a stretch to see him come to ST this year in great shape and delaling, after another year ot rehab. Might not jump to 200 innings, but he cold easily stretch out to 175+/-
Just don’t know what teams he will do it for! Nola to start and up by July would be fine with me.
perfect scenerio the way this team is configured is Duque ptiches great for 2 months, and when he needs to shut down for his mid-summer 1-2 month vacation, someone like Humber is dealing in AAA and pushing to get called up.
That was what they really missed last year. It seems they went straight from the regular rotation to Lima time!
nyc2k2, just find me one reference that says Humber had a tired arm in 2007that was something out of the ordinary. As I said, ALL pitchers get a tired arm at times — Maine, Perez and Feliciano all had tired arms this year. So it’s no reason to baby a pitcher.
Aggressively pushing prospects in the minors is a subjective opinion and doesn’t mean anything if you don’t end up promoting kids to the majors. It’s irrelevant. What’s important is whether or not the Mets have been developing and utilizing the talent in the HIGH minors effectively enough so that they can contribute at the major league level.
Nothing out of the ordinary, I don’t think I said that… Just a very tired arm from having pitched as many innings in 2007 as in 2005 and 2006 combined. Pushing a guy too far is asking for an injury, we both know that.
Sorry, but find me the report that said he had a “very tired” arm from pitching “as many innings in 2007 as in 2005 and 2006 combined.” You’re simply making your own diagnosis when it could be simply ordinary tiredness that every pitcher goes through regardless of the number of innings.Obviously IF there was any tiredness, it was not serious or they wouldn’t have let him extend himself into the 9th inning when he pitched his near no-hitter at the end of August. I think you’re making something out of nothing.
As I’ve said numerous times before- it’s on BA or BP, and Rotowire. It’s not my diagnosis. I’m not trying to hide anything or make anything up. ANYONE with an account to those sites, please look it up.
I’m not going to address this again. I no longer can access those sites. If that sounds like a convenient excuse, go with that. I’m sure at some point this offseason or ST the news I’m referring to will be rehashed, and we can go from there. If not, then you can keep calling me a liar.
You know, we wonder why other teams don’t like our prospects. Well if the Mets are reluctant to use them, then why should another team trade for them? If they get Odalis Perez, then that’s saying to the Twins he’s a better option than Humber, Pelfrey and Mulvey. So the Twins might as well just go out and sign Perez themselves and keep Santana. Right?
I don’t think it says that at all. It says, let’s bring someone to spring training and see how he does. Pitching depth is incredibly important.
It’s not even close to saying that he’s a better option than Humber, Pelfrey or Mulvey. The Twins would make similar moves if they had the payroll to add veteran pitchers that likely will contribute only a handful of starts to the big club.
Bringing in Odalis Perez is insurance: insurance in case one of the veteran pitchers injures himself and insurance should the kids fail to make an impact. Additionally, should the Mets in fact trade two or three of the aforementioned young pitchers, then they’ll be thin at the AAA level, where Perez should be able to earn a spot.
Absolutely correct. What happened to those people who were tired of seeing Omar sign these projects and put them down at AAA? Taking up a spot that our own prospects should be using to get better. What happens to those guys who are ready to move up to AAA and cant because their position is filled by a guy who the Mets “might” use somewhere down the line? They get stuck with another year at AA, or sit on the bench at AAA? How do they improve this way? This kind of stuff does not strengthen out farm system, it weakens it.
Can you name one pitcher in recent memory who was stuck at AA while a retread blocked his path? I can’t.
VCarver and MudvilleNine are on point. Odalis Perez would be good insurance but the point is him being insurance will turn into a roadblock for the kids. Then we’ll deal with another summer of screaming about why do they keep running this guy out there. Lima/Jeremi Gonzalez/Lawrence … same old story.
Now if they sign him and change the approach, and REALLY just use him for insurance without stunting the growth and opportunity of guys like Humber and Mulvey … then it’s a good move. The kids should get first crack though.
Tidewater — if they just bring him to spring training on a minor league contract and don’t promote him during the year over one of the kids who may be pitching just as well or better, then I will agree with you. But if they treat him like Park or Lawrence this year at the expense of Humber, Pelfrey or Mulvey, then I will disagree. And if they give him a guaranteed ML contract, then that will say to the Twins they like him better than Pelfrey, Humber and Mulvey. The Twins are smarter than to want to waste money on a retread like Odalis Perez. There is no upside there, the likelihood of crappy pitching, the blocking of younger kids, and a waste of money.
Again, can anyone name a Mets pitcher who was stuck in AA, behind dead weight at the AAA level? Seriously, ANYONE?
Let’s say no deal gets made, and one of either Humber or Pelfrey makes the rotation out of spring training. That leaves a AAA rotation of Mulvey, Humber/Pelfrey, Od. Perez, Vargas, Bostick and… who? The 28 year old rookie Willie Collazo who can’t break 86 on the radar gun? Guerra, Niese and Parnell are really the only pitchers projected to start the season at AA with any realisitc hopes of moving up to AAA, and even then that would be a serious rush job.
Really guys, bringing in Od. Perez on a minor league deal will have no tangible impact on our young arms.
Forget about levels. That’s irrelevant. They should have given pitchers like LIndstrom, Bannister, and Humber more chances the last 2 years. That’s the problem. Doesn’t matter if they were stuck at AA or not.
Bringing in O. Perez on a minor league deal will have no impact as long as they don’t favor him over one of the kids who may be pitching as well or better at the time. If they do, it will have an impact. Also, Perez has had a history of being bad for team chemistry.
When we had Lindstrom, the bullpen was our strong suit. Where would he have fit in the 2006 pen? Who would he have bumped?
Bannister was only healthy enough to pitch in 16 games in 2006, half of which came with the Mets. He was then traded in an effort to bolster a perceived weakness at the time the bullpen. And he was traded for a younger player with more upside. You can say the trade didn’t work out, but it was a swap of youth for youth. No roadblocks there.
Humber wasn’t going to get a shot in 2006. It was his first season back from TJ and he had pitched exactly 5 innings at AA. I’ll give you that they could have handled him better last season, but the fatigue from pitching over 100 innings for the first time in 3 seasons was a legitimate reason for the kid-gloves.
If you really feel like we’re holding back the kids somehow, fine. Howeve,r you’re using really poor examples to support your case.
Name any of the pitchers from AAA or AA and you’ve answered your question. For every game and inning pitched by these retreads, is one less game and inning of experience and work for the younger pitchers. Its the same for the position players. Every inning Valentin plays at second down at AAA takes away from a young secondbaseman (yes I know we dont need one for a few years but the principle is the same). True having a veteran for those players to learn from is a plus but experience is the better teacher. Hey, you had two very old catchers down there last year splitting time, and the other two were 36 and 31 years old. We cant have a young guy down there learning? Does every team have a “just in case” squad down at AAA or is it just us? A minor league signing is fine for competition in ST but if they dont prove any more useful than what we have, they should be cut and not take a spot from a young guy.
Saying “one less game and inning of experience and work for the younger pitchers” assumes that we had/have younger players deserving of those spots. I’m asking you or anyone else to name a player that should have been at AAA that wasn’t because of a veteran.
They could have brought Lindstrom up in September of ‘06. Give him a look and see what he has. God knows they sure could have used him this year and a look at him in ‘06 might have provided a better perspective on him.
Their rationale for trading Bannister was a poor one, since Burgos is a risky pitcher with a low pitching IQ who couldn’t find the plate. All he knows how to do is rear back and throw as hard as he can which is why he ended up needing TJ surgery. God knows they could have used Bannister this year. He would also provide a nice fallback for the Mets should they need to trade some of their prospects for Santana.
I wasn’t talking about Humber for 2006 so stop bringing it up. It is irrelevant. The problem was 2007. And stop with this fatigue fish story. Even if he had a tired arm at one point, as I said that happens to virtually every pitcher at one point in the season. The fact is, he was strong enough at the end of the season to pitch a near no-hitter.
Even if you can’t see it, Humber, Lindstrom and Bannister are perfect examples of where the Mets fail their prospects and deny them opportunities to make it with the big club. It’s a shame.
Submitted my last post before I was ready. Heh, sorry.
You use the example of the old catchers we had at AAA. Who should have been there learning? Mike Nickeas, and his sterling .217BA at AA, and even more awesome .559OPS? Kids need to be ready to hold at spot at AAA… Not promoted there just for the sake of having a kid at AAA.
Trading Bannister? Probably not a good move. A move made to fill a need that so far hasn’t panned out. I’m not arguing this. My point is that I don’t think we through up any “roadblocks” to his success. He pitched well early in 2006 and we gave him a shot. In the offseason, we tried to address a need and moved him.
I’m bringing up 2006 in re: Humber to clarify what I was saying earlier, since there was obvious miscommunication. It’s not to further an additional point. I was saying that 2005 he had a sore elbow, pitched through it, ended up needing TJ. He came back mid-season 2006, got half a season of work. His first full season of pitching was 2007. I was just spelling out the facts.
Humber’s fatigue, if any BA/BP/Roto subsrcibers can find it, was reported as “Mets officials are concerned with the declining velocity of Phil Humber.” I’m aware pitchers have period of velocity loss. No news here. It was being reported that the organization was concerned that he was overextending himself in terms of workload.
I don’t think giving Bannister the handful of starts he got in 2006 was giving him a real chance. Sure he got hurt, but then don’t unload him for a risky pitcher. You give him a shot in 2007. That’s my point.
I know the timetable for Humber. The fact is by June of this year he was two years removed from TJ surgery. Not one. TWO. There was no reason he couldn’t be counted on to have a productive 2007 which is what he had considering the difficulty of pitching in the PCL.
As for Humber’s supposed fatigue, there was nothing to it. At the end of August he pitched his near no-hitter. This idea that they were concerned about him overextending himself is just poppycock. If that were the case, they wouldn’t have allowed him to pitch into the 9th inning where I’m sure his pitch count was over 100 during his near no-hitter. That was the END of the year.
Lets face it. Omar was never a big fan of Humber’s. He didn’t draft him, and Omar has always shown a favoritism for players he acquired himself. That is a flaw in the way Omar operates. The only bright side is that as every year goes by, there are less and less players in the system who were acquired by other GMs.
What would the back of his jersey say?
“Od. Perez”???
We already have an O. Perez with control problems…no thanks.
Why can’t I not help but see a left-handed Jorge Sosa? Maybe it’s just a Brave thing. More likely it’s that as with Sosa, Odalis’ one good season was a result of some Mazzone magic, magic that has now since left Mazzone by the way, once the devil collected on his soul and banished him to h*ll that is Baltimore….
Omar’s playing chess with GM Smith,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, this is hilarious!
i’m not laughing…
not a chance of this signing happening, who in their right mind sees this as plan B? This is all part of the negotiation process for plan A. Or Perez replaces Guerra in A ball if anyhing, so just sit back and laugh…smile… and laugh some more.
Oh no, anotherr Chan Ho/Jose Lima. He’ll be our 5th starter when Duque goes down.
another day, another Mets trade rumor involving a mediocre player. It’s Santana or bust people.
i dont know about you guys but the thing i want to see the most out of schneider is his sick mets catching helmet
the mets jerk their prospects around like yoyos. they bring them along too fast, and they give up immediately. they are idiots. they should forfeit their draft picks before they ruin more baseball lives.
Stop ruining baseball lives! Won’t somebody PLEEEEEEASE think of the children?
LEAVE PELFREY ALONE!
Every team with a sizable budget makes these types of moves. Everyone rolled their eyes when we brought in Jose Valentin, Darren Oliver, Endy Chavez, etc… And then they became major contributors.
I’ve been a fan of this team for, oh, we’ll take the under and say 20 years. I’ve never been around to see a WS title. I’m as frustrated as anyone. But the amount of vitriol directed towards to front office for making smart, safe, minor signings is simply ridiculous.
Stop exaggerating. Who rolled their eyes when they brought in Oliver and Chavez? And they along with Valentin weren’t preventing the advancement of younger kids. It was flotsam like Park, Lima, Lawrence, and Williams who were the problem.
Also, name all the rejects the Red Sox and Yankees brought in over the last two years to start for them? If Cashman did that in the past, he now realizes that’s a failed strategy and that’s why he wants to give their young pitchers more opportunity.
Who rolled their eyes at those moves? EVERYONE AT THESE BOARDS! It’s no exaggeration.
Retreads who sucked for the Yankees in the past two years: Ron VIllone, Kyle Farnsworth, Mike Myers, Shawn Chacon, Tanyon Stutrze, Aaron Small, Corey Lidle, Scott Erickson, Sindey Ponson. The vast majority of those guys got starts for them.
Red Sox: Julian Tavarez, Rudy Seanez, Kyle Snyder, Lenny DiNardo, David Wells, Jason Johnson, Kevin Jarvis.
Yes, you are exaggerating. The only one who got bashed was Valentin, certainly not Oliver or Chavez. And then Valentin wasn’t really taking the place of a young starting position player.
As for the Yankee retreads, Villone, Myers and Farnsworth are simply bad signings. Like Schoeneweiss, Sele and Mota were. I’m talking about the old vets they bring in for emergencies or backup that prevent kids from advancing, particularly starters. Chacon was just 27 when he was brought in, so he doesn’t fit that category either. And Erickson never even started a game for them. I’ll give you Lidle, Small and Ponson. That’s 3 in 2 years. That’s far less than what the Mets have done the last two years, and at any rate, as I said Cashman has made a commitment to use the kids more. In 2007, he used ZERO washed up retreads to make starts.
As for the Red Sox, what are you talking about with DiNardo? He was just 26 and basically came from their own system (after they took him from the Mets). He’s exactly the type of pitcher that should be given opportunities. He certainly was no Park. Saenz was not even a starter. Tavarez was certainly NOT a retread, having come over from the Cards where he put up some very good years. And at any rate he was the Red Sox’ Darren Oliver in 2006. Snyder was 28 when he came over and had a good 3.81 ERA this year. So really, the only ones who are analogous to the flotsam the Mets signed are Wells, Johnson and Jarvis. The Mets still had much more dead wood on their teams the last two years than either the Red Sox or Yankees.
It’s not an exaggeration at all. Maybe we’re remembering different posts on this board, but A LOT of people were all over the Chavez and Oliver signings.
DiNardo was a poor example, I’ll allow that.
Give me Tanyon Sturtze and Corey Lidle too. Older types from multiple organizations that have had limited success. That would make five… How many have the Mets used? Let’s count: Jeremi Gonzalez, Jose Lima, Chan Ho Park, Brian Lawrence maybe? Among pitchers that got starts… Seems relatively (or exactly) even to me.
Tavarez the reliever was solid. Tavarez tha starter was not. Last 4 years of ERA as a starter: 5.39, 4.52, 5.93. Taking a veteran reliever and watching him struggle as a starter is no different than recalling a crappy starter from AAA. Were you to concede me Tavarez, that makes 4 poor choices for SP by the Sox in the past two years.
I’m done arguing this, at it seems we agree on nothing. Feel free to one-up me all night should you choose. I’m off to watch the Rags with the old lady.
How could they have been bashing the Oliver signing? He was signed to a minor league contract I believe and merely got an invitation to spring training. And how could they have been against Endy Chavez? Who was he blocking? What were the reasons? I honestly didn’t see any strong objections to either signing.
I already gave you Lidle. And Sturtze made no starts for the Yankees the last two years. So you’re still left with only Lidle, Ponson and Small. The last two years, the Mets had Lawrence, Williams, Park, Lima, and Gonzalez. So that’s 3 to 5.
The thing with Tavarez was that the Red Sox got him as a reliever. Not as a starter. And right before they got him, he had had 3 consecutive good years. So there was a good reason to get him. You cannot say the same for any of the dead wood the Mets got. He is simply not analogous to Park, Lima etc. And the first year they got Tavarez they used him mostly as a reliever and he did fine. Bottom line — they did not acquire someone who was already washed up coming off of bad years or injury. He wasn’t a scrapheap project which is essentially what I’m talking about.
So you’re still left with 3 players the Red Sox kinda took off the scrap heap.
Mets are still kings of the scrap heap reclamation projects. They need to stop it.
You can’t define the argument as including only “old vets” and exclude Chacon (27) while including Dave Williams, who was 27 when we acquired him and 28 last season.
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