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In today’s Boston Herald, citing baseball insiders in touch with both the Mets and Twins, Michael 
Silverman writes…
“The Mets, and not the Red Sox or Yankees, remain the front-runner as the team most likely to succeed in pulling off a trade for Minnesota ace Johan Santana.”
According to Silverman, “There are indications that Fernando Martinez would be in the deal, along with major league outfielder Ryan Church and at least two other prospects.”
…well, church is major-league ready, which, if you’ve been following this, is exactly what the Twins have been waiting for…
In 144 games for the Nationals last season, the left-handed hitting Church, 29, hit .272 with 15 HR and 70 RBI through 47 at-bats.
Church will be eligible for arbitration following next season, and able to be a free agent after 2010.
…if you recall, i mentioned church back in December, but assumed he would not be enough…of course, that was back during the Winter Meetings, when there was still plenty of time left on Minnesota’s clock…today, with a bit more pressure to make a move, combining church to martinez and two pitching prospects could be the Twins best play, in my opinion…
…at the time of church being acquired for Lastings Milledge, myself and others wondered if it was a way to get a more valuable outfielder to trade, since milledge’s stock had dropped…
…that said, if this is accurate, and church is to go, who exactly will play right field every day for the Mets…i mean, since he will not be included in the deal, is Carlos Gomez really ready to handle the load…i’m not so sure that he is…
…for what it’s worth, this is why i prefer to not dissect every single move made by Omar Minaya as it happens…instead, i prefer to wait, see how things play out, and evaluate the off-season as a whole…i look at the regular season in the same way…
…at any rate, jeez, just when i though the Hot Stove was running out of gas, suddenly i’m knee deep in wondering about potential right-field acquisitions…
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If this has any kind of credibility to it the question to ask would be; is the potential upgrade that Santana bring to the rotation more valuable than the potential downgrade that Gomez over Church would be in the OF (assuming that Gomez is given the job).
My answer, and I assume most others, would be Yes. Should Omar obtain Santana while keeping one of the OF prospects, it would be a solid victory for Minaya.
Ummm, I can’t even believe you would ask that question. I would swap Church with Gomez in order to get Santana 100 times out of 100. There is no argument you can make against it. That is assuming Gomez would be the starting right fielder. If so, he could break out. If not, Omar could do something else to find a right fielder. It’s a no brainer.
Oh believe me, I agree with you 100%. I was just throwing that out there in case anyone had any trepidation on the issue for some reason.
This Santana Fiasco is like binge drinking getting tremendously worse.
That’d be great. But they aren’t going to rely on Gomez. They had no choice but to rush him last year with all the injuries.
It’ll open a roster spot for a free agent.
Would we be interested in outfielder with 30 2Bs, 10 HRs, 11 SBs, .291 Avg? I hear Shawn Green is available.
Would any be disappointed to have Shawn Green again?
Not only would I love that deal, I’d like the opportunity for Omar to bring in his boy Brad Wilkerson. Gomez and Wilkerson could platoon RF, and Wilkerson is actually a good first basemen, and could spell Delgado instead of Anderson or Easly.
Wilkerson has some good power. His hitting for avg is not great but he can play all 3 OF positions and some IF (1st and 3rd). I would agree that it would be a good move but aren’t the both RH hitters? I would have to check that.
looks like Wilkerson is gonna sign with the Red Sox today
Absolutely, Wilkerson is a perfect fit if the Mets keep Gomez, although a straight up platoon might not afford Gomez enough playing time to develop properly — I’d look out for the Mets to either deal Gomez or sign a guy like Mench to hit against lefties while letting Gomez hit righties.
As for this deal, this is absolutely tremendous — if the Mets can keep either Pelfrey or Guerra and unload F-Mart, Church, Pelf/Guerra, and Mulvey, I’d sign up for it immediately — figure the Twins get major league ready guys in Church and Pelfrey, and can develop F-Mart and Mulvey — I think that’s a better deal than Philip Hughes and Melky Cabrera or Jon Lester and Coco Crisp (plus Lowrie and Masterson), but maybe that’s my Mets bias talking.
Add in guys like Joe Smith and a lower prospect like Niese to make it an easier sell for the Twins (”it was a 6 for 1 deal, just like Haren, and we don’t have to pay the contract!”)
Why would you want to let Smith go? With Church & Pelf there’s two major league ready guys right there, two more should suffice. Don’t compare this deal to Haren, there was no one in that deal like C or P.
dont trade fmart – plain and simple
Holy Cr@P! Church had 15 HR in just “47 At-Bats” last year?!!?!? Why would we deal this guy?
Well, I’m not one to jump on typos….but I would say the 70RBIs in the 47 ABs would be even more amazing.
Touche! 70 RBIs, 47 At-Bats. This guy is a stud!
Seriously. Do you know what his Strat-O-Matic card must look like for the 2007 season?
HOMERUN
HOMERUN
strikeout
DOUBLE
SINGLE
HOMERUN
HOMERUN
DOUBLE
HOMERUN
u going to strat “WORLD HQ” in Glen Head opening day??? im going…it’s amazing to see the people that turn out there lol
I should go! I used to play, it’s great. And Keith Hernandez always makes references to it during their broadcasts.
This typo was copied from a post that was made right after the Milledge trade. Guess it never got fixed…
Like the ‘name’. Steal Home Jose…that’s great.
Kevin Mench still isn’t on a team!
That is so true, he would be the move right after the trade and all Mets fans would be happy, until the season starts of course.
Well there is some flexibility. Some would say don’t sign a FA and let Easley/Gomez man RF. I would sign Kevin Mench.
Though if Gomez is ready (big if), maybe you sign a lefty like Green, Gonzo, Wilkerson or Nixon to platoon.
Other free agent OF:
Shawn Green
Kevin Mench
Trot Nixon
Reggie Sanders
Luis Gonzalez
Shannon Stewart
Brad Wilkerson
Barry Bonds
I may be wrong, but I believe they can’t re-sign Green until May 1 since they didn’t offer him arbitration…
I think that May 1st rule got canned.
I’d rather have Luis Gonzalez anyway…
But I would think a RH bat makes the most sense to platoon with Endy and break up the lefties at the bottom of the lineup.
There would be worse situations than an Endy/Gomez platoon. Of course with Alou gets hurt and both are playing everyday it would be a big problem…
Luis Gonzalez the roider?
no, that Luis Gonzalez has been gone for 5 years.
I’m talking about the part time, Shawn Green like Luis that played for the Dodgers last year…
Ba-rry! Ba-rry! Ba-rry!
You would have to wonder.. what kind of pop that would add to this lineup. Is all his baggage that comes along with him worth it… I would say no… but it’s still an interesting question
Can we please refrain from such vulgar profanity?!?
adding Barry to this lineup would be like wrapping a stick of dynamite in C4.
sammy sammy
From that bunch I wouldn’t mind Stewart. He can field well and gets on base at a reasonable clip. Wilkerson had an .859 OPS against lefties last season, so he might be a good option while giving Endy some starts.
oh wilks is a lefty? Good I would go for him i think…
Bonds…hah!
I’ve always been a Shannon Stewart fan…and I have no beef with bringing Green back. Guy gives you a professional AB every time.
Nixon is done. Mench is intriguing.
Yep, nothing wrong with Green. When I think about last season, I seem to remember him being a horror show on all fronts, but turns out he hit .291! Really streaky though I guess . . .
so you guys think we should go from church to temple?
He wasn’t nearly as terrible as everyone thinks (aside from butchering RF defense), and towards the end of teh season, he was getting some clutch hits…I remember someone even posted how strange it was to be relieved that Green was up in a clutch AB.
The rumors now seem to suggest that the offer would be FIVE players: Church, FMart, Pelfrey, Guerra and Mulvey.
That’s too high a price, in my view. If you’re giving up two “ready” players (Church and Pelf), then two good prospects should be adequate.
Plus, I’m still not convinced that the bidders are actually improving their offers at this point. So why bid against ourselves?
I am pretty sure that it would not include Pelfrey. I haven’t seen his name in any of the deals mentioned in the past few weeks.
There is new news today, rumors have his name as being “possibly” included in a deal. I think Omar has been sitting back, and may be poised now to make “his move”.
Great point – either Guerra or Mulvey should come out of that package if the Mets are willing to give up Church, FMart and Pelfry – especially if the Mets are bidding against themselves at this point.
I wouldn’t do that deal. At minimum, you have to take Pelfrey out of it.
Cannot give up more than one of our top pitching prospects or more than one of our top position prospects. If Fmart is in, Gomez is out. If Pelfrey is in, Humber and Guerra are out. It has to be that way otherwise we are giving too much.
I agree
How does Pelfrey get involved? I havent seen him included in any of the recent rumors. I’d actually rather keep Guerra than Pelfrey, though I would expect to be in the minority there. Though I would guess the Twins would prefer Guerra, which is why Pelfrey hasnt been included.
If Pelfrey is involved I would think that Church, Pelfrey, and FM should be plenty. Add in Humber or Mulvey and its a real slam dunk. Its big league ready prospects, though the ceiling isnt very high compared to where they are right now, FM excluded.
Pelfrey wouldnt have room in the rotation with Santana here, Humber or Mulvey would be adequate fill ins, and Guerra would still be in the organization. On the other hand, trading both Church and FM leaves a void in RF on both the short term and long term… Keeping Gomez and Guerra would be a win, imo.
Interesting twist on thier interests
I know it changes daily, but wasn’t the buzz that Minny preferred Gomez, since he was a CF’er?
Gomez is a moron, so I would prefer he was traded.
lol a moron??? what does that have to do with his trade value lmao…i LOVE the humor on this blog…touche
I know I will be ridiculed for saying this but why not sign Sammy Sosa to a 1 year incentive laden contract. I know he is old but he still hit 21 homeruns and will probably be better than Mench or Wilkerson.
Even if the Mets do trade Church, they always have Pagan to start in RF and have Gomez play in AAA. Now that I think about it that Pagan trade seems like a blessing in disguise.
Sosa also got to hide in the DH spot for a decent number of his ABs. He’d be a huge donwgrade from GREEN in the field.
I don’t think I want to deal with Sammy’s baggage. Not worth it. I’d rather have Mench or Wilk.
I would like to sign Sosa, Gonzalez, and Bonds and work with MLB to stagger their 50-game suspensions so we are covered all season!
willie would have a hard time communicating with Sosa, cause Sammy can’t speak English!!
Neither does Bonds.
I dont mind looking into to sosa as a platoon guy – Omar loves him – discovered him – he’s “toned down” in the clubhouse – and when not starting would at a serious power threat off the bench – Endy or Gomez could replace him late in games for defense.
I like the move – not much out there as far as OF’s go if Church is moved – BUT i wouldnt think twice about moving church for the best pitcher in baseball -
Well, I think our previous offer: Guerra, Mulvey, Gomez, and Humber was not as appealing as Hughes or Lester and prospects. But everything that was written states we were the leader, so who knows what to think anymore?!
I would still rather send Gomez instead of martinez. In either case, it does leave a hole in RF that neither one is really ready to fill.
Now, what would the rest of the deal be? If they still lose Guerra and Martinez and Mulvey, + Church, that is a lot to give up.
But, when it is July and Gomez is hitting .195 with a slugging % on .240, all of the “Santana at all costs, to hell with the rest of the team” better not be getting on Omar’s case!
Where is Wilkerson anyway, and what would he cost to get? But, if Gomez comes up, and you add another OF to cover for him, you still have the numbers problem on the bench.
Unless he platoons with Endy or Anderson? Ugh.
If this does happen, it seems like Omar will have to pick up a regular OF someplace. Handing the job to Gomez is a pretty big risk.
That, and with Castillo and Schneider in the lineup, that is 3 of 8 guys with no power. And with Castillo, they can’t take advantage of Gomez’s speed at the top of the order.
Maybe there are dominos to fall?
yeah, 3 of 8 with no power (although gomez may one day get some power)
but we do have beltran, wright, delgado and alou to supply the power, so it is a nice balance (with jose landing somewhere in the middle)
I dont want to part with Guerra AND Martinez, but I have no problem parting with either. Also, I would offer Pelfrey to hold back on Guerra.
I dont get why the Twins would want Church, they have a nice crop of corner OF’s and would be most in need of a true CF lime Gomez, right? But if Church is going in the deal, then I would almost rather keep Gomez because he is more big league ready.
Church, Guerra, Martinez and Mulvey would be too much, imo. But Pelfrey, Martinez, and Mulvey (and a lesser 4th player?) probably isnt enough for the Twins.
I can live with it when Santana is 13-4 with a 2.80 ERA in July. And lets see what happens, for all we know Omar might have another trade or FA Signing in the works as well for an Right Fielder.
From what it sounds like, it says Martinez, Church, and at least another 2 prospects, possibly Pelfrey. If we could manage to pull off a Martinez, Church, Pelfrey, Mulvey (And maybe a lesser prospect) and manage to keep Gomez, Guerra, and Humber that would be a mega-win for Omar IMO.
Don’t forget about Endy Chavez. He’ll probably have a big role in the outfield if Church is dealt.
What the hell am I going to do with my Church Jersey now?!?!?
lol
You can wear it with your NFC Champion Packers cap
If this rumor is true it would be great. I wouldn’t like to lose Martinez but all things considering not giving up all of their prospects especially pitching that would be better for the Mets organization.
Craig
I always suspected Omar was using Church as trade bait for Santana. As soon as he made the trade for Church he was boasting that he has 2 CFs now – and that’s exactly what the twins were looking for.
3 if you count Gomez.
Same here. Up to this point, I never understood why Melky Cabrera was “so great” and we “didn’t have a guy to match him in our deal”. Church has been that guy the whole time, he’s the equivalent of Melky Cabrera.
The equivalent – except better…
Funny how the Yankee uniform boosts the trade value of their players?
Very true. Would make sense. I just wish the Twins would deal the ‘friggin guy already, this has been ongoing for over 2 months.
Here’s an interesting free agent name to throw into the outfield mix, if Church goes in a Santana deal…
Preston Wilson
Horrendous name is more apt than interesting name
show some respect to the mook’s blood
Here is something also to throw out….. Strike out.
Oh, come on. If we’re advocating Wilkerson, you can’t ignore the fact that Preston is out there as if he’s horrible…
Preston Wilson? Yeah, if we turn the clock back to 1998 maybe.
So Mookie can show up in a Mets uni if we’re in the playoffs instead of our opponents uniform.
since I love speed and defense I would like to keep Gomez.
Endy becomes a key guy and is there a better defensive outfield than Chave/Beltran and Gomez? maybe but they are quick out there. I’d platoon Gomez and Endy.
Frankly i don’t care about the pitchers. keep any 2 of the 4 and we are in great shape.
I agree … Endy/Gomez platoon could work. The Mets also have a bunch of bench guys that play outfield, so they have the luxury of keeping Gomez in AAA for a little longer if that was the case.
I’d hate to see F-Mart go … but if we’re keeping one of the two (Gomez) then I really can’t complain about it. As far as the other two pitcher’s though, I’d have to think Guerra stays, if F-Mart goes.
Endy’s health still worries me
I would love to see the Endy/Gomez platoon, that would be one exciting platoon.
could have dykstra/mookie implications some power and speed if gomez learns lay off the high stuff and the slider
I like Church, but if he is the key to the deal, it was nice knowing you. It will require some more quick retooling, but there are s/t options out there for RF that can get the job done.
I can’t see Pelfrey going though. He is just about ready to bust out. Hey, a year ago he was being (favorably) compared to Hughes, and for all the bashing he gets, he is still a top young pitching prospect.
To me, If Church and Pelfrey were in the deal, then Guerra and F Mart aren’t.
Something like Pelf + Mulvey + Church is as good (and ML ready or close to ) as any of the other rumored offers.
Something more like Church + Mulvey + Gomez + 1 more guy not named Guerra or Martinez would be nice!
Realistically, I think we should aim to retain ONE of Guerra and FMart, if Church is in the deal.
Thus:
Church
Mulvey
Pelfrey
Guerra/FMart
I like the idea of a Mench/Wilkerson platoon. Mench is great against lefties and Wilkerson’s fine, low average but walks a decent amount.
This would be ideal especially if we can get away with trading Gomez instead of F-Mart. Could Church, Mulvey, Gomez, Humber get it done? If not maybe add in Guerra
What about going after Kenny Lofton? He’s a free agent and had pretty good numbers last year for a guy who will hit either 7th or 8th.
(.296/.367/.414) 23 Sb’s at 77% success. he scored 118 runs and drove in 60. he’s a little old, but for a 1 year thing I think it would be worth it.
For one year, definitely worth a shot.
Plus, it’ll punch another ticket on Kenny’s “all the MLB teams I’ve played for” card. One more and he gets a free six-inch sub.
We don’t have the roster space for both…unless we ditch one of our bench guys….
We actually would be in the same shape we are in now. No Church so there are 2 spots left. I would assume nothing for Gotay. Also depends on the BP>
Crikey, if Ryan Church is the one to break the logjam, I’ll pay for his ticket to Minnesota myself. If this is true, that’s great news. I realize the Mets may struggle to find an adequate replacement for Church, but I’d rather have a strengthened rotation and feel there are always more alternatives for the outfield. They have to do it.
Yeah, it’s a no brainer.
Please email your Frequently Flier miles or CC# to me at
freddiecoupons@mets.com
Thanks a bunch – Fred
Beofre we get too excited here… what does “Mets remain the front runners” and “there are indications” really mean? Where is Silverman getting his info? It is easy to get excited about the sound of this but….is this just another rumor that wiil never come to fruition….
ANyone now Silverman’s record on such things?
we’re the front runners because hank hasnt said anything latley and theo is waiting for the chance to break the yanks heart with a better package so we’re the front runners if hank keeps his mouth and checkbook closed
I would LOVE to see Gomez stick around and play everyday (or platoon) in RF. I like Ryan Church, but think that Gomez’s star is about ready to shine. I’d much rather include Church in the deal than Gomez; that way, I’d also feel better about having to part with FMart.
My trade would be Church, FMart, Mulvey, Humber, and Guerra. It’s still a lot to give up and probably too much (I hate to see Guerra go), but we’d be getting back the best lefty in baseball while keeping Pelfrey and Gomez. You’ve got to give up something.
include Pelfrey, keep Guerra and Humber…
with the likelyhood of Santana and Maine being around for a while I would prefer to keep a long term prospect like Guerra over Pelfrey who wont have a rotation spot in 2008 with Santana here. Then going into 2009 you have Humber and Pelfrey still unproven and out of options. I see more value in keeping Guerra.
someone to simply platoon in RF shouldnt be hard, we all know who the options are. i think if we can make this trade while holding onto gomez AND pelfrey its a total victory for this franchise we stay young in the OF and at pitcher and maintain depth in the rotation should the inevitable injury happen to one of our senior starters. suddenly losing milledge is an after thought if this goes through since we all thought he could be a chip in the deal anyway.
Am I the only person who might want Humber more then Pelfrey? Humber has probably the best curve on the tea. Pelfrey has not performed yet, I might rather see if Humber goes some place once he has a chance to stay healthy. I think he might have more up ide and has not shown us stage fright at the ML level like Pelf has, yet.
I’ve always liked Humber better … his “stuff” isn’t as good but he’s got a better head on his shoulders, I think. Only problem is … Omar didn’t draft him so he’d probably try to deal him before dealing Pelf.
Did you not see Pelfrey go 3-1 in Septemeber?
Yeah I saw that … didn’t say he was bad … I just think his mental makeup won’t work in NY. I could be wrong. He could turn around and win 16 games next year. I just think his presence on the mound is bad. If he improves on that, and matures … then I’m wrong.
I thought he looked a lot better when he came back last year.
…I mean, mound-demeanor-wise
not performed yet? phenominal in september when everyon else sucked 3-0 and lets not forget that gem against the braves-my guess is if pelfrey still on this team hell win at least 12 and very rarely do pitcher survive for long on just a curve.. but they do survive with a great sinking fastball in a pitchers park
What a genius Omar would be if he could turn Milledge into Santana and Schneider… who would have thought that?
As well as a bunch or quality prospects…so lets not start sucking Omars private area yet.
note: sarcasm
Argh, now they’re saying we’d lose F-Mart too? And Gomez? So precisely who plays right field? Shawn Greene? Rickey?
As well as a bunch or quality prospects…so lets not start sucking Omars private area yet.
I would say Gonzo, he can’t be any worse than Green was out there. He’ll probably hit a few more homers than Green did too.
Green hit .290 last year. He is likely going to sign for a low amount with incentives. He would not be a bad signing in that regard as he also is a good back up option at 1B.
I’ve been banging the Church to Minny drum since we got him (actually, I thought he would be part of a Peavy deal, but I digress). I think he makes the most sense as “ML ready” and signing Wilkerson to replace him to me is just too obvious.
Men(s)ch would be great in a Church platoon, but Wilks would be a better overall fit, I think, with Church gone. It gives Gomez time to mature and he can come up when Alou goes on vacation in June.
I think we’re getting real close guys . . . REAL close.
Church, F-Mart, Mulvey and Humber.
Pelfrey #5 starter and Guerra stays in the system to join the rotation in, oh, ‘10, taking a resigned for 2 years Pedro’s place when he retires.
Well . . . I should say El Duque as #5 and then when he and Alou go on vacation, Pelfrey and Gomez come up . . . probably to stay.
Omar could also explore possible trades. People keep on saying here, out fielders are dime a dozen! So there must be some reclamation projects…
And why is this a surprise (if true). I though everyone assumed Church was only signed to be traded for Bedard.
I think because the front office made a big deal about Church and Schneider once they were acquired, introducing them to the media and so forth.
If their plan to flip Church all along, I think they would have kept him at arm’s length (see: Johnny Estrada).
But hey, whatever gets the deal done.
That wouldn’t have increased his value. Why would the Twins bite if the Mets hadn’t made such a hoopla about the trade?
Billy Beane also helped by suggesting that Lastings was so good that if the Mets traded him for Church, by implication, he must be great!
If I was cynical (the hype now around Martinez) I would say this was the real plan and Omar is a genius.
I don’t why you would be cynical about fernando martinez. He has been touted as a great offensive prospect for almost 2 years now. If there is anyway the Mets can get Johan and keep FMart at the same time, then Omar is a genius. Personally, I would like to see Gomez dealt and if Church and Humber, Pelfrey and Mulvey can satisfy the Twins, then you have to pounce on that deal!!
The Mets would get Johan and retain their 2 top long-term prospects, Delois Guerra and Fernando Martinez
the nats still have about six good outfielders.. they might ship one or two before the season starts so that dmitri young can start with nick johnson back
sign bonds. he gets two days on, two days off and gomez and endy fill the other days.
Ugh. Sosa, Bonds. Stay away from the juicers and cheaters. I don’t want any of them on the team I root for,
Not to mention we’d have the oldest and most brittle players roaming the corners. Beltran’s legs would be shot by mid-May with all the territory he’d have to cover to make up for the dinosaurs in left and right.
As I said above: Can we please refrain from such vulgar profanity?!?
And Amen to VCarver!
Bonds in NY = a media doo-doo storm of epic proportions. Not to mention he could wind up in jail on perjury charges before long.
anyone who thinks every team in the league is spotted with “cheaters” is just lying to themselves.
and that’s fine.
but if someone can help this team win and has never actually tested positive or been punished by the league at this point, if they want to and CAN play in new york, they’re welcome.
sosa is washed up, but bonds hit 28 homers and had a freakin 170 OPS+ in a little about 2/3 of a season’s worth of appearances. those are the only facts you need to worry about.
Fact of the matter is this:
No matter who goes in the Santana trade, the Mets will have given too much. I would rather them throw in more major leaguers and fewer of our bright prospects, but its gonna be too much so let’s just get this done already.
This story was a lot more interesting when I read the previous 84 times in January. Call me cynical, but throwing in a new name and spinning the same story around it does not make breaking news. It does however give us another round of fun and enjoyable comments. Plus we can now spin our wheels as to which prospective outfielder will p!ss us off the least..
Could you imagine? Don’t tease me. Hey, if Church ends up being Nady with defense and they get Martinez and let’s say Mulvey, Humber and Guerra, they can hold their heads up to their fans a little bit. They can in truth have a ML ready hitter or may or may not pan out (What are the dimensions of the new Twins ballpark gonna be? If it’s small, he could be a HR threat, too), another potential superstar hitter (at OF presumably) and 3 pitching prospects, two relatively close. I wouldn’t be surprised if Mulvey and maybe even Humber got a ML look rather early on. I won’t get too excited though, because this could be an awful letdown.
Don’t tease me, bro!
Nice…
I dont mind the idea of Gonzalez either, he is a quality player and person. He would fit right into the Mets clubhouse.
i would accept sosa he is a clean batter no steroids im tired of seeing people talk about sosa and steroids his name did not appear in george mitchell report. and iwould trade
church,mulvey, hielman, humber,pelfrey and pagan for santana and a prospect
Contrary to your name I don’t think you know Mets because they wont do that trade regardless with how many players you include they wont trade Santana without one of FMart, Guerra or Gomez. I hate how people jump to include Heilman in the trades he is as vital to our success as Santana would be.
suck my dick mets 17 if u were a mets fan u would love it ur an a$$ hole
I don’t understand why everyone has to swear on this site, prove me wrong back up your opinions with facts and make me look bad, don’t stoop so low where you have to use profanity because I disliked your trade offer. I am sorry but you give Mets fans a bad name.
I am a Met fan and I love your trade for us. However, to post pipe dream trades that are non-sensical from the other parties perspective on this site is a waste of everyone’s time.
ill also add collazo so its a 7 for 2
church, mulvey, hielman, humber,pelfrey,pagan and collazo for santana and a prospect
throw in pellot
we also keep carlos gomez fernando martinez and guerra
At this point I dont care who our RF will be if we get Santana. Lets just get him already and worry about that after. I wont feel confident until a deal is announced. Something is bothering me about all this. Dont know why but for some reason I think after all these rumors and our hopes being high we end up mising out on Johan. I hope I am wrong.
For god sakes please do not bring the Jewish hammer back 2 queens. Ill take gonzo or menche over green any day of the effing year! Have all of you forgotten how we used cringe everytime shawnie was at bat wit runners in scoring position?
Love the name . .
Church, Maine, Mulvey and Humber?
I am not saying I would do it but what do you guys think. It answer’s they MLB ready part of the trade? Still keep Gomez, FMart, Pelfrey, Guerra.
I like Maine a lot but this is still an option?
if Perez signs an extension then I would consider trading Maine, but I wouldnt like it…
they already have holes to fill after 2008 with Pedro, Perez and Duque expiring. Why create one more hole in the rotation?
If Pelfrey had stepped up last year and gave us any indication he can not only survive in the bigs but also contribute as a #3 starter then I would be more willing to deal Maine. I want more security than Santana and Pelfrey going into 2009.
plus, with the deals for Haren and Bedard, I would think Maine should be able to bring in the same type of crop of top prospects. He should have similar trade value to Johan actually…
Not worth it.
Maine and Church maybe. The thing is, Maine could give us 17 wins (15 in first full season). Santana will get us about 21. Maine comes a whole lot cheaper and we can find other ways to get Santana other than Maine.
I highly dissagree with throwing John Maine in the deal. I don’t know about you but i see the Mets making it to the playoffs. What if you run into the Webb/Haren D-Backs rotation? Wouldn’t you feel better having Santana/Pedro/Maine/Perez? And if somebody like Pedro goes down we still have some depth going into the postseason. Maine has shown he can pitch in big spots in the playoffs.
How bout letting the Twins have Guerra, Mulvey, Gomez and Chuch for Santana? There are plenty of decent and relatively interchangeable outfielders left on the free agent market. Pairing one or even two of them with some combination of Easley, Valentin, Marlon Anderson, Chavez, and Pagan is likely still muchbetter than what we’ve been getting out of right field the past few seasons anyway. We would still have adequate depth to make up for Moises Alou playing less than full time. Thats saying a lot considering we’d be giving up Milledge, Chuch, and Gomez in the same offseason. Truth is our starting RF (Green) had been putting up 30 to 40 RBI seasons lately. I’d be shocked it that mark does’nt improve next year regardless of who gets thrown out there.
Minny would get an attratcive package in return. Gomez is often rated higher than Ellsberry. We even throw in a great young stopgap (Church) so Twins fans don’t riot while Gomez matures. Guerra is the kind of high ceiling pitcher you’d normally demand in any trade for an ace- a guy who at least has a chance to be as good as the ace they would be giving up. And every related article I’ve read dating back to the Luis Castillo talks says Mulvey is VERY well liked by the Twins. This package would seem far less risky to Minny than most of the others being discussed.
Would F MART, Pelfrey, and 2 or 3 players from a group of Humber, Gotay, Heilman, Schoenweis, Feliciano, Smith, Sanchez, or the few decent prospects left in the system be enough to land BEDARD FROM THE ORIOLES?
JOHAN
PEDRO
BEDARD
OLLIE
MAINE
EL DUQUE 6th man/long relief
Best staff in baseball? Do you agree both trades are fair to all sides? Would we be giving up more depth than we should?
Scenario:
Santana gets a 3.50 ERA
Bedard gets injured and then sucks (think Mulder)
What would you think about the Mets then?
By the way, the Orioles wouldn’t take that deal, and should that happen we have about 3 key holes to fill in the lineup (5/6/7) all from the free agency, and the team payroll would then skyrocket from $120 Million to about $180 million because:
Santana will cost a whole lot
Bedard may cost quite a bit
We’d have to get another closer
We’d need another starter to make up for the loss of El Duque and Pedro
We’d need to fill 3 lineup spots at least 1 of which has to be top quality.
Indeed it is risky. With all the prospect bashing going on the scenario I proposed- well, I don’t think it’s absurd anyway. I believe baltimore would at least ponder a trade that included 2 blue chippers and a quantity of cheap, good young players. I agree 110% with your concerns about the 5, 6, 7 holes in the lineup and the need for a closer in 2009. However I just don’t realistically see the players we’d be giving up as ideal to fill any of those roles for 2009 either. We are a big market team with 3 draft picks in the first round and a better crop of free agents in next years class. Has there ever been a 7 or 8 for 2 that wasn’t filled with duds? Most of these guys wouldn’t play for the club anyway or at least take more time to develop than we expect. Our 2009 problems will be addressed other ways. And trading for any pitchers shouldn’t prevent the Mets from extending Ollie’s contract otherwise there is no point to doing even a Johan trade. We are a big market team, and unfortunately that often means we don’t give players a long enough look before we ship them off, but the wilpons can’t expect to cry poor in this market when teams like the Royals can give 11 million a year to Gil Meche. Maybe Ol’ Gil woulda fetched 15 mil annualy in this years market! And Johan is a steal compared to, say, Barry Zito. Stop talking about the mets as if they should be on a mid market budget. Player salaries are what they are whether fans like it or not, What the skankees do is absurd, nearly doubling the payrolls of their nearest competitors. But please don’t imply that the mets cn’t afford to do all the things they’d like. Anyone have an estimate for this years payroll as it stands, my rough estimate puts us nearly 20 million below last year’s. After raising ticket prices 20 percent, After choking terribly and missing the playoffs. After Jimmy Rollins and the Phillies dominated and humiliated us unmercifully, which was right after Jimmy told us that was exactly what they were going to do and we couldn.t stop them. Mets fans Deserve Better!
well u want to bank out our system and bullpen but our bullpen will be fine we got decent guys like wise and stokes and steven register we will be fine and both santana and bedard how can it get better probably maybe guarantee a world series or two but still wont do it ill probably trade a oliver perez by the allstar break if all pitchers are healthy and maybe get some prospects back but i guarantee u that the mets wont get both but if they do i will be 75 percent to it but we will lose some players that i really like . i liked milledge i like gomez i like martinez period
huh?
If Church is the missing “key” to this trade I’m all for it although I like him more than Gomez since he would help the Mets more in 2008. I still believe that Gomez has to spend a full year in AAA to work on his ability to hit a sinker and to mature in his batting approach in clutch situations. I guess FMart has to go also. Maybe we could get him back as a free agent in 7 years if he continues to become the star in the Majors we all think he can become.
I am really getting excited since the media is keeping this going again and it “feels” like it could happen.
I would be awfully smug if Omar pulled this off and used Milledge (who the Twins didn’t like) to get Church to send as a major league ready, young ,good hitting ,good defensive outfielder: and then got a great back up outfielder in Angel Pagan. Not many on this site liked either deal.
In Omar we trust!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Lets go Mets!!!
The gambling problem, the alcohol problem, and now the Santana problem.
The Mets have to capitalize on the Twins’ love for Gomez.
Martinez can’t have any part in this
If they want Church, they can have him
Ryan Church
Carlos Gomez
Aaron Heilman
Kevin Mulvey
Philip Humber
or
Carlos Gomez
Kevin Mulvey
Deolis Guerra
Philip Humber
If they prefer a prospect laden deal, they can take the second. Otherwise, the first.
This whole mess is best summed up by this video -> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uTfbCOPApsQ