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When asked how best to improve the bullpen during a poll in early November, the majority of people said to pray for the health of Juan Padilla and Duaner Sanchez – as opposed to signing a free-agent to a multi-year deal.
…i have been getting lots of e-mails about sanchez from people who are down in St. Lucie for Mets Fantasy Camp, all of which check out when mentioned to people connected to the team…from what i can gather, sanchez feels great, his arm feels great, and he’s looking forward to the start of pitchers and catchers, which he’ll be ready for, and which starts in roughly three weeks…additionally, the team’s coaching staff is pretty positive as well, adding that duaner is ahead of schedule…
For recent photos of Sanchez throwing in St. Lucie, click here, here and here.
…thanks to Scott from Live Auctioneers for the photos…
…however, the word from Port St. Lucie is not a rosy for padilla, who may not be ready until after opening day…
Since the poll in November, the Mets signed, traded for, drafted and/or invited Brian Stokes, Matt Wise, Steve Register, Joselo Diaz, Andy Cavazos, Ryan Cullen and Ricardo Rincon to camp – none of whom are guaranteed a spot on the opening day roster.
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I think the pen will be fine, especially if Duaner is close to 100%. I’m intrigued by Register, and I’m hopeful that Padilla can have an impact at some point. I’m also expecting Heilman to pitch better and Smith to return to form.
In addition to Register, I’m also intrigued by Rincon, who could be a great addition if healthy.
santana is big for this too.
the mets get him, you could then put Pelfrey in the pen, groom him to be the future closer…ala papelbon
I half-heartedly agree… I like the idea of Pelfrey being groomed to be the closer, but only in the instance that he does not pan out as a starter. If we do get Santana, I like the idea of Duque going to the pen, because I really want to see Pelfrey pitch. I feel very strongly that he’s ready to break out.
A healthy Sanchez is a way bigger improvement than anyone available this off season. I am sure at least one of the guys we picked up (Register/Wise?) will contribute. Sele and Mota gone…maybe one of the kids works well out of the BP…we could have a dominant bullpen.
quite possible. Before the 2006 season, I doubt too many people were predicting that crew would be a dominant pen either.
Having Sosa in the pen all year could have a larger effect that we realize. With him in the rotation the pen was very thin, add Sosa, Wise, and Dauner, and lose Mota and Sele and there are a lot more useful pieces. I cant see Sosa being a starter in ‘08 unless he wins a job out of ST due to Pelfrey being awful or Duque getting hurt. The Mets cant slip Sosa to AAA this spring, so he will most likely be in the big league pen all year.
I’m most happy with the useful depth, if someone is ineffective or gets hurt there will be options at AAA this year. Last year there was just Adkins. This year its likely there will be Wise or Joe Smith, Muniz, and some of the ST invite guys like Padilla, Rincon, etc in the NO pen. much much better.
Matt, can you tell us a little more of what you know about Padilla? You said he may not be ready for the start of the season. Is he having setbacks again, or is this just the normal recovery time for him?
IIRC, he was just recovering slower than normal.
Gotcha, thanks.
The only good signing was Wise. I think it will be fine. Rincon is a minor league deal, though he probably won’t make the club anyway
the bullpen doesnt lack talent they were just used too much and not properly last year. a healthy sanchez, a healthy schoe (hopefully pitching almost exclusively to lefties), and no more mota are all improvements. our starters just need to go deeper into games to help keep our pen rested, although its tough to do that when you dont have a single pitcher that can be relied on to throw 200 innings.
I would expect Maine to pitch 200 innings this year, he had over 190 last year and one could assume that Perez would have if not injured.
I dont’ think it unreasonable that we could get 420 combined out of OP and Maine this year.
I would be happy with 400 but I think you are right.
i understand they are both more than capable of doing so my point is that its not a guarantee. most successful rotations/teams have a guy that no matter what before the season starts you can write in 200+ next to IP.
Matt, honestly the biggest improvement is the departure of Mota. Coupled with the addition of Sanchez, I think The Show will be better, Heilman is solid, Felicano tired…. Just getting Rid of Mota was huge… It was like Willie used him just to show Omar how terrible he was.
and sele, who was just taking up space. As long as everyone this year is a legitimate pitcher and gets used, they should be fine.
Honestly, Sanchez really is the key…In ‘06, we had the Heilman to Sanchez to Wagner bridge, which A) effectively shut down the other team’s offense after the 6th inning, and B) masked the inability of the starting rotation to consistently pitch 7 innings/start….On top of that, you add talent in the form of Feliciano, who has done exceptionally well over the last 2 years…it becomes easier to keep Schoenweis in place to only face the left handers, and then you have Sosa, who fits in as the middle/long man, in the Darren Oliver mold…these are your 5 primary relievers…barring injury, it becomes irrelevant how good guys like Wise, Ricon, et.al perform. In addition, it enables the team to hide Register in the back of the pen.
Given how close the team was to pulling through last season, I think it is fair to say that having a potentially dominant reliever like Duaner in the fold would have been enough to reverse their fortunes (twofold–both by h is performance, and by seeing less of Mota)….Again, barring injury, I think our team will have a bullpen among the top 2-3 in the league. (lets see how the guys in SD fare, after the league has had some time to adjust)
I see it as being a sanchez – heilman – wagner bridge this year… if only because heilman deserves to be the 8th inning guy
I see it as being 3 arms to pitch the 8th & 9th. None of them can pitch every day, but at least now there’s 3 reliable late inning arms.
Combine that with the lefties – Feliciano & Show – and 2 of Wise, Register, Smith, Stokes, and the 6th & 7th are set. Sosa as the long man/swing man works too – and gives you a realiable “extra innings” guy also.
If, of course, they all stay healthy.
fair point too…I guess either way works, depending on who is pitching better/who is up that inning
Let’s see.. move Mota, check; Sanchez healthy, check; Heilman on board, check; Wise… question mark; got Bradford back, no; got Oliver back, no… mixed results.
“how Omar Minaya has improved the bullpen”
Uh what?
What did Omar do. pray that Sanchez will be healthy, and sign a few bargin basement guys…
In other words next to nothing… he didn’t take a proactive approach and no one should be surprised if it struggles again next year….
What, really, was out there? A whole lot of way overpriced, under-performing veterans? Look at JC Romero, and his 3/12 contract. He has Schoeneweiss written all over him. Another established arm would have been nice, but I certainly don’t fault the front office for refusing to overspend on mediocre talent.
To your fist point who cares what it costs? Bull pen arms are valuable.. either you pay for a proven arm or you don’t..
And second none of us will ever know what was out there… I mean who would of guessed we’d have Ryan Church on our team at the expense of Milledge
My original point was he sat back, made a few minor deails, and waited for Sanchez to come around.. so no I don’t think he did a good job, and I won’t be surprised if come July the pen is struggling…
There are other teams in much greater need of relief arms that us, yet there weren’t many deals made for established arms. As you noted, quality RPs are in short supply- a team would require a good return to deal an arm, and we’re really not in a position to be dealing prospects (assuming we’re holding them for Santana).
Who cares what the cost is to sign a relief pitcher? Ownership that is forced to watch Scott Schoeneweiss collect millions for sucking every night.
And again, I’ll ask: what FA RP should we have signed? What traded RP should we have made a move to acquire?
And again I have no idea who is actually available.. for one.. if the nationals were so in love with Lastings Milledge.. how about Chad Cordero worked in the deal instead of one of the worst hitting catchers in baseball?
One of Dotel or Affeldelt would of been nice…
The point is I think he should of added at least one proven arm to the mix.. Sanchez hasn’t pitched a full season since 2005.. yes 2005.. he pitched a little more then half in 2006.. missed all of 2007.. so really you’re asking a lot of this guy to pick up where he left off of his breakout season in 2006…
And instead he sat back and did nothing… The Mets have plenty of money.. and the bullpen was terrible in the 2nd half.. so yeah I think they could of spent some cash there.. We’re about pay Brian Shciender $5 million to bat .240 for god’s sake…
Anyone remember how we had one of the more dominant pens until the all-star break last year? The key is use and the SP. Our BP will be one of the best in the league as is.
Man what are you people smokign and where do I get some?
So you think our improved rotation (which it’s not) will be the key to the bull pen being better?
That is just not true dude.. the rotation is a giant question mark.. why do you think we’re still desperately looking for a front line pitcher..
Omar has been lax with the bull pen, and unable to fix the rotation to his desire.. so as it stands right now, no one should be surprised if the pen struggles again.. be it early or late in the season.
Chad Cordero? The same Chad Cordero that would have required Humber or Pelfrey at the deadline? So you’re advocating trading two of our top prospects, within the division, for a reliever with declining velocity who was only average away from home, plus Schneider and Church? That would be exactly the type of deal that would get slammed by every fan.
Affeldt has had one decent season, and even then he managed to walk over 5 guys per 9 innings and was shelled to the tune of a 5+ ERA on the road.
Dotel has averaged about 15 appearances per season since 2004 and carries with him a whole host of arm problems. Not a good way to spend 11 million dollars.
And an improved rotation certainly would help the bullpen. A rotation that pitches well, and into the sixth inning, takes a tremendous amount of pressure off of the pen. What hurt us most was having guys like Lawrence and Pelfrey go 3 innings, forcing our pen to pitch the majority of the game. Guys then become overexposed and unsettled pitching out of their normal role.
I would have really liked Affeldt, especially for one year and 3 million dollars.
That’s all I’m saying.. one or two proven arms to the mix of Sanchez and the low cost guys would of been smart…
Matt, stop deleting my comments. We are allowed to talk about Santana here, no? Being that Church may or not be involved in a deal now is relevant. Just because you are slow checking out the Boston Herald this morning, don’t punish the rest of us.
I agree. I am happy with Sanchez and think we may be able to get close to the performance of Padilla 2 years ago out of Wise and the rest. My concern really has to be for starting pitching right now. If we do not ge Santana, we really need inning eaters in the rotation. I think the reason the Mets collapsed last year was that by the end of the season the pen was spent. Glavine, Maine and El Duque all did not go late into games on numerous occasions as well as the abundance of filler startwers including Pelfrey’s starts. The pen was just completely spent last year.
SO I would say I am happy about this pen as long as we can find a way to get more innings out of our rotation. Pedro is not going to see any more significant ammount of innings than Glavine did last year. If not through Santana aquasition, through some way to get inning eaters. Thoughts?
I have said this before, even as the rotation stands today it has more innings than last year.
Glavine 200
Elduque 150
Perez 175
Maine 190
Pelfrey 80
This season
Pedro 150
Elduque 150
Maine 200
Perez 190
Pelfrey 150
Pedro hasn’t hit that mark since 2005.. so sure he’s guaranteed to do that this year…
El Duque is anything but sure of hitting 100 innings let alone 150
Maine and Perez will probably be between 150 and 200
And Pelfrey had an ERA of almost 6 in his 80 innings.. so sure he can nearly double that and still be effective.. no problem..
This is wishful thinking
thanks EWM saved me the trouble…that is just a silly assumption…and if Pedro and El Duque get hurt…Pelfrey sucks at the ML level…Maine looses it in the socond half and Perez goes through a control problem spell then how many innings do we get?
was I the only one who saw Pelfrey drastically improve at the end of the season in his last 4 starts? I swear some of you just love to make generalized statements that mean absolutely nothing because its the “in” thing to bust on Pelfrey. Watch the games, actually look at what’s happening on the field. Pelfrey is certainly better right now then he was at the beginning of last year.
Well if Hamels gets injured and Lidge sucks so Myers moves back to the pen and ………
Why play the what if game. All teams have injuries and as of right now we have just as many arms to throw into those spots as anyone.
My comment still stays the same.
Elduque gave us 150 innings last year and I expect the same from him this year.
Pedro if healthy will give us 150 innings.
Why if Maine (who obviously hit a wall in the late part of the season) pitched 190+ innings last year could he not be considered a 200 inning guy?
Also, Perez missed about a few starts and would have been over 200 innings if not for that.
I have said this over and over, I want Santana or at least an upgrade, but to do it out of desperation because we lost Glavine is nonsense. Our rotation has question marks just like everyone else in the NL and especially the NL East.
I’m with you on this year’s #’s. Here’s the math behind it. If you can get 6.25 innings per SP and Maine and Perez start 32 games each, Pedro, El Duque, and Pelfrey start 24 games each, Maine and Perez = 200 innings each, Pedro, El Duque, and Pelfrey = 150 innings each.
That’ll leave 26 games to be started by Humber, Vargas, Mulvey, Sosa, etc.
Of course, getting Johan would be great, since we would then have three 200 inning pitchers (Johan, Maine, and Perez] and two 150 inning pitchers (Pedro and El Duque) with Pelfrey to pitch 16 games and the other 10 games to be started by Vargas and Sosa.
i just dont get this at all.
why would sosa’s 80 ip as a starter not count towards the #5 slot?
I am going based on projections for this year compared to last year’s innings. We have to go by predictions from this year assuming no injury.
My point is based on the current rotation we have more potential innings than we got from last year’s starting rotation.
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No Mota? No problem!
It all depends who the long man is. If it’s someone like Sele, then he and Schoeneweiss will still represent a black hole and severe weakness in the back of the bullpen.. If they get someone like Oliver, then I think they’ll be fine, assuming Heilman, Feliciano and Wagner can at least replicate what they did in 2007.
It remains to be seen who they give that long man role to. They shouldn’t lock it up with a contract to someone like Sele. Make it flexible enough that they can slot in one of the kids or a veteran looking for work if need be without worrying about eating a contract.
Sosa is the perfect long man, no?
Sosa would be great for that role. I forgot about him. Hopefully it’s a role he doesn’t balk at.
Yeah, true. I can’t see him balking at it though … he won’t be a starter on this team out of spring.
I see Sosa as a guy who can be a long man and give you short appearances as well. Sele was used that way sometimes, but I think Willie has more faith in Sosa and will not save him only for blow outs and short starts.
Sosa will likely come to spring and pitch as a starter candidate, getting his arm stretched out for the first half of ST. So he would be a likely guy to move into the long role.
With as many solid parts as this potential pen has, there may not be a long man. Many teams dont have a dedicated guy like Oliver or Sele and just make due. Guys like Sosa, Wise, and Register could see longer appearances without being the specific ‘long man’
Toss Sosa and Register around for longman/mid relief and I think we’re fine. I really don’t want to see Sho against righties. Keep him as a lefty specialist and I think were golden.
I’d be willing to bet that role goes to Sosa.
Agreed, VC. And I agree with the poster below that Sosa might be a good option as the long man.
Is Dave Williams still under contract?
Dave Williams rejected a minor league assignment (Mets moved him off the 40 man roster) and opted to become a free agent.
The Royals or Pirates could probably use him as a long man/6th/7th starter…
the problem is, who could have predicted Oliver would have had the season he had in ‘06? he was horrible before and horrible after, so all in all, its a total crap shoot. That’s why you bring in a bunch of guys like we did that year, and see who sticks, hopefully we can find another Oliver type who can get it done, but banking on it is pretty tough.
The problem was hanging on to Sele for the whole year. He really hurt the team, along with Show and Mota. Their failures are what put an extra burden on the rest of the bullpen, which is why I still have a problem with those who want to blame Willie for the bullpen as had few good options.
They just have to avoid a situation where they aren’t willing to pull the plug on someone who is hurting the team.
Oliver hasn’t been bad at all since leaving the Mets… he’s with Anaheim, pitching well. The slightly inflated ERA is due to the better hitting in the AL.
I for one am Stokes about all the Wise moves Omar made in the pen. He didn’t take much out of the Register which is rare these Diaz. Let’s hope he has the Cavazos to pull off the Santana deal. I hope Ricardo Rincoblan is listening somewhere at Fantasy Island. Da plane, da plane! Omar, get Santana on da plane!
lol … good stuff.
I think Omar has done a good job this time. He avoided the temptation to repeat his mistake of last year and load up on expensive albatrosses with guaranteed major league roster spots.
The newly acquired guys are more or less a crapshoot, but they’re just potential backup for the combo of Sosa, Show, Feliciano, Wagner, Smith, Heilman, and Sanchez, which is a full bullpen already. Plus we have prospects like Rustich and Kunz who may be able to fill in later. Really, we ought to be in good shape, as long as our guys step up and pitch the way we know they can.
Rustich and Kunz just finished a season at SSA Brooklyn. In fact Kunz signed late and didnt even have a full season. Those guys, even though relievers from college, still have a year or two down in the minors before they’re ready to be consistant major league relievers.
Well, Joe Smith only pitched 32 minor league innings before he made the show. The Mets drafted Kunz with a reported eye towards fast-tracking him like Smith; it’s not unreasonable to predict him joining the club at some point this upcoming season.
Brant Rustich is a different story… He has three excellent pitches but struggles with command. Should he sort his command out by midseason (while producing good results), seeing him at Shea is within the realm of possibility. I’ve read a great deal of speculation that the Mets may push him hard.
One interesting tidbit in regards to Rustich is that the Mets are apparently exploring the idea of having him start, rather than relieve. If that’s the case, he certainly won’t make any MLB appearances this season.
Well, as I said below, Smith is the perfect example. He did pitch very well at the start of the season. A guy, brand new to the league, who throws from down under, he did very well. That was his advantage, that he threw from down under. But his inconsistencies and the league finally caught up to him and he had to be sent down. They rushed him but who would have thought at the beginning of spring training he would do so well? They saw Bradford in him and kept him. It’s quite possible Kunz could do the same thing but he was a positional player as well as a relief pitcher in college so when it comes to just pitching, he is still behind. After watching him in Brooklyn, me and a few others figured he’d start this season in PSL, about a third of the way thru move up to Binghamton, and might finish out the season in NO.
If Sanchez is healthy, I feel very good about the pen. Heilman and Feliciano are reliable, Sosa will make a good long-man, Schoenweis should return to form against lefties, all the arms that Omar has invited/brought in should improve the depth, and Sanchez would be a more than welcome addition.
I’ll consider anything we get from Joe Smith or Padilla to be gravy because they’re not reliable. I like Joe Smith, but if we remember correctly, he was a surprise on the roster last year, coming out of Spring Training. He wasn’t supposed to be on the team, but earned a role after his ST performance.
The role I’m most concerned about s the closer role. Wagner is still great, but he breaks down late in the year almost every year, and is not exactly clutch. I’m interested in what the plan may be if Wagner breaks down again. Willie better have a plan, because it’s a safe bet that Wagner will eventually break down.
Joe Smith, a perfect example of what I wrote above. One season of SSA out of college and though started well was not ready to be a consistant reliever. He still needs a year or two down in the minors.
i like the addition of Wise.
Brian Stokes, Matt Wise, Steve Register, Joselo Diaz, Andy Cavazos, Ryan Cullen and Ricardo Rincon.
lol. now that’s an upgrade! that makes schoeneweis, mota, and sele look like future hall of famers.
if sanchez is and back to form (huge question mark) then he wil be a big help. let’s not forget he was great in april ‘06, but just pretty good from may until his injury.
after the collapse, we have a roll-of-the-dice. period.
the mets still have an equal shot at the nl east.
Will, this is rather trollish, and I certainly voted that I’m happy with the bullpen. However, since this collapse, it’ll be a while before I actually sleep well at night. The bullpen at the end of 2007 should have been a lot better than they were. EVERYONE in the bullpen was a let down, or at least that’s the way it appeared. I don’t understand what happened, so even though on paper, it looks like we should have absolutely nothing to worry about, especially with the potential bullpen additions of Duque and Pelfrey, we have seen proof that it’s still a crapshoot.
trollish? do you lack brain activity? (said slowly)
I do remember that story in the papers a while back about Duaner “working hard and watching a lot of DVDs” (I guess as opposed to going out at 1AM in a cab for “ethnic food”). I would think that the guy is really desperately anxious to put the ML Orange and Blue back on and I know I am quite ready to have the “old Duaner” back in our pen.
What is the source?
who the heck would play right field?
i guess gomez?
i thought minny liked gomez better??
Martinez, Church, Pelfry and a Mulvey/Guerra? I guess if that were the deal to go down Gomez would get the starting job in RF, splitting time with Endy/Easley.
I would do Church, Mulvey, Martinez, Pelfrey
keep Guerra, Humber and Gomez with 3 draft picks this year? Not too shabby.
Nice find remax….I think I would go for this trade. Church is good against righties which the mets need but I think a platoon oF (Church), a projected back of the rotation guy (Pelf) a killer hitting prospect (F Mart) and one other gut shot pitching prospect can be justified to get Santana. A lot of ifs there We still would have 3 picks this year, Gomez, and a couple valuable pitching prospects. We wouldn’t be rebuilding from scratch and we can count on Minaya to keep signing non-draftee’s out of central/south America. I think this is the move to do if it is for real.
Only because Gomez is closer to ML ready, which that need is lessened by getting Church.
That and the Twins needs a centerfielder.