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In the Star-Tribune, columnist Sid Hartman writes that, while the Yankees and Mets have ruled out signing Johan Santana to a seven-year deal if he’s traded, there is still hope that the Twins could work out an extension of their own.
However, in a different report for the Star-
Tribune, citing a ‘Twins official,’ La Velle E Neal III writes that there have been no recent contract talks between the Twins and Santana.
Neal explains that the Twins are hesitant to trade Santana for what they perceive to be 20 cents on the dollar, adding…
“Peter Greenberg, Santana’s agent, admitted during a telephone conversation this week that he will need to discuss strategy with Santana soon on how to handle things if he is forced to report to camp with the Twins…What Greenberg wouldn’t address is if Santana will refuse to waive his no-trade clause once he reports, but that possibility surely exists. It’s unclear if the Twins have been told that yet - but it appears that they have stepped up their efforts to make a deal happen before camp begins.”
…which is exactly what i mean when i write that santana is in the diver’s seat, to some extent…as i have said before, from what i can gather out of people connected to santana, he prefers to play for the Mets, then for the Red Sox, then for the Yankees…
…the thing is, just how much is he willing to shake minnesota’s cage to make a deal go down…this quote from greenberg suggests we may soon find out…
Neal breaks down what Minnesota can expect to get from the Red Sox and Yankees, while the Mets and Twins have talked about adding another player to the deal, “such as Aaron Heilman.”
In yesterday’s Boston Herald, citing ‘indications,’ Michael Silverman wrote that Ryan Church could be included in a potential deal as well.
By the way, according to Hartman, “The Mets never have given a player more than a five-year contract, and they would be averse to changing that policy.”
…ummm, the Mets signed Carlos Beltran and Mike Piazza to seven-year deals, plus signed a six-year pact with David Wright…i’m guessing that hartman meant to peg that to only pitchers…which would be correct…
…as i have said, the sense i get is that the Mets are against giving more than a five-year deal to any pitcher, as are the Yankees, mostly because of insurance issues…the thing is, when santana says seven years, what are we talking about…i mean, he’s under contract next season, if he is then given five and an option, plus a signing bonus, that could be the seven-year deal he is seeking…i wonder if that is good enough…
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I can understand why they’re requesting Heilman if they also intend to move Nathan.
Um, because Heilman’s only going to cost about $4-5 million for the next three seasons. Nathan will probably make more than twice that per season on average for the next three years.
If you read the two columns, Neal’s seems to have more actual info, while Hartman’s is almost totally speculative.
Also, didn’t Wilpon say he’d be okay with a six-year deal?
Some days I feel confident that a deal is going to happen. Some days not so much. Today, I’m not feeling good about it. Yesterday I did.
I hope after this whole ordeal is over and the dust settles, there will be reporters who leak which packages the Twins were willing to accept and how negotiating with FO of those respective teams went down. Then I can crucify the Wilpons for teasing Mets fans…AGAIN.
This is great.. yesterday wer’e Ryan Church away and Omar is a genius…
And today our proposals are considered “.20″ on the dollar.. and eve in they weren’t we don’t agree to Santana’s deamnds.
Wake me when this over…
“Wake me when this is over” I could not agree more! I’m really sick of all the rumors and speculation with this whole Santana Saga, until this situation is resolved I don’t even want to see his name anymore. After last years collapse, if we don’t end up getting this guy after being tortured throughout this entire long, drawn out process, Mets fans will be crushed.
It’s like a really bad reality show.
Is there a good reality show? :-)
Haha … I don’t know … I don’t watch any of them.
top chef!
That new Moment of Truth Game show.. while paiiiinfully slow.. and waaaaaaaaay over edited.. is pretty tough to watch….
The first guy had to admit to not loving his wife enough to have kids, to doing something that would cause his wife not to trust him.. and he got no money, because he lied about touching a female client (he’s a personal trainer) more then was required for his job…
rock of love bret michaels and the pick up artist…..anyway, enough is enough already. i wish it was just time for northfork pregame live at this point so we know who is pitching that first game.
man, you said it. The best thing about the superbowl (most years, anyway) is that it means baseball’s almost here.
The 20 cents on the dollar comment isn’t a direct shot at the Mets, but a shot at the fact that the best pitcher in baseball, if traded, is only gonna bring back prospects and maybe a ML-ready player or two. Regardless of which deal they take (if they trade him), they’re not getting equal value.
Ageed.. but it’s such a sharp contrast to the other countless articles on here how the Twins may realize the Mets offer could be great long term, etc…
It’s just so ridiculous.. I’m starting to hate myself for taking any of this information to heart.
You and me both :-)
Depends how you define value. Strictly in terms of talent and ability, sure, they’re getting .20 on the dollar. But that’s ignoring some crucial facts. First, the Twins only have one year of Santana to sell. The going rate for rentals, even stud rentals, IS prospects. Regardless of what he does with his new team, this, is the commodity the Twins are selling. Of course, the rental includes the exclusive right to negotiate with the player, but this brings us to the second fact, that due to Santana’s no trade clause, the acquiring team will essentially be forced to offer him one of the riskiest contracts in sports history.
the thing about contracts is very simple.
either a player can have security, or money, not both. Does Johan want the 7 years more, or the 140 million more? Personally I think it’s the tottaly package. So you split the baby. Instead of 7×20, you make it 5×22 etc.
Everything is negotiable. It’s all about finding the right balance.
Five for $22 million is fair. Omar could could sweeten the deal by throwing in a 6th year option at $25 million and a $10 million signing bonus adds up to the $140 + million Santana is looking for.
I heard Minaya in an interview say that the 5 year limitation was not ironclad. That they might break that rule for special players. Of course Johan is special. He said that at least months ago and he was speaking hypothetically. But I’ll be shocked if Johan insists on at least 6 guaranteed years in an extension and they don’t give it to him. Not an option year, but 6 fully guaranteed years. If they let a deal fall through over 1 guaranteed year, they will be skewered by fans like me.
Also, I think Sid Hartman is just writing as a homer. I doubt Johan even wants to be with Minny anymore long term. Too many negative things have happened — like their lowball offer to him last spring and their paring of the roster mid-season even though they were still competitive. I think he wants out of there and has already made that decision in his mind.
Wow. can you imagine getting santana and livan for starting rotation and orlando to the pen????
omar, that settles everythinggggg! you go and do that, and an offseason of sht turns into gold.
I wouldn’t bet too much that Duque would be any good out of the pen. Especially as a short man that works many days in a row.
Now, maybe as a long man spot starter?
I think they are better off keeping him in the rotation and getting everything they can out of him before he breaks.
I agree with this thinking, but it brings up an interesting question. How do the Mets resolve their rotation if they do wind up with Livan AND Santana? It seems like either someone has to go to the bullpen or someone has to be traded. I can’t fathom doing anything with Pedro or Maine, and if Livan’s deal is big enough he won’t be moved to the pen. That rules those three out. That means the options are:
1. Move Duque to the pen. Probably unwise since he seems to exist on “Duque” time when he warms up for starts (another note, you’re four years younger than you actually are when on Duque time)
2. Trade Duque for a marginal return. A small market team that thinks they can contend but is short on starters might take a flyer on him.
3. Move Oliver Perez to the bullpen. Seems like the most unlikely situation, since the Mets already have three lefties in the pen, and its hard to imagine how Perez might react to a demotion after a strong season.
4. Trade Oliver Perez . Sounds crazy, but it might be a viable option if it doesn’t look like he’s going to sign an extension. You could even begin whispering the possibility once Santana is hypothetically acquired. Figure out what you can get, and make the decision whether to go this route before the draft. If you do, snag a good prospect or two and draft with what you’re getting here in mind. This only really works though if you have Mike Pelfrey or someone else looking like they could slide into the rotation should El Duque or Pedro falter. And obviously, I’d much rather extend him if possible.
This has to be a move forward. We have stopped talking about who would be involved in a trade to the contract extension which is has to be agreed BEFORE any trade. There is no point giving up 4 prospects if Santana walks away after a year.
I just feel there must have been covert talks between the Mets and Santana. Just like those between Omar and Cabrera last season. Omar knew Cabrera was going to be traded in the off season and sounded him out.
Thats the only explanation of Omar’s relaxed attitude. He knows IF Santana is traded, the only team in it is the Mets.
hi fan from the UK….maybe across the pond you didn’t know, but teh way a trade goes through is with like a 72 hour window to talk about extension, if one isn’t agreed to, it falls apart..so actually, players need to be discussed first..
thanks for playin!
which cabrera are you referring to?
mrose what I was trying to suggest was that Santana has to know what the contract offers are going to be from the 3 clubs he could move to before the trade is made. Obviously that would give the clubs negotiating for Santana an advantage over Minnesota. And I believe it would be an illegal approach (correct me if I am wrong!).
The Cabrera I am talking about is Miguel Cabrera. And the Omar/Cabrera incident in May 2007. The famous 10 minute chat!
i’m still not following….
It would be tampering i’d imagine if omar has already said to Johan, we’ll give you x years at x dollars…
Maybe he can tell the agent “we’ll be ok with salary”…
Santana is going to wave his no trade clause first for the trade to be even to the point of negotiating…so we know he is ok w/ Boston, Yanks and the Mets…
he waives the clause if a deal is made player wise…and then part of that deal is the 72 hour window…at which point, if a contract is done, deal is done..other wise nada
An agent can’t discuss any potentional contract with another team’s player unless they’ve been given permission by the team who own’s that players contract. I doubt there has been any negotiation at all between Omar and Greenberg at this point. There would be no reason why the Twins would permit the Mets to negotiate anything with Santana.
Those negotiations wouldn’t begin until a trade package has been agreed to. At that point the Mets would ask for permission from the Twins for a 72 hour window to negotiate with Santana and his representative. If a contract is agreed to, then there would be a physical as well as Selig signing off to the transaction.
It’s a long and complicated process and we probably won’t know about the acquisition until the trade is agreed to by the Twins and terms of the contract agreed to by Santana.