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According to Charley Waters in the Pioneer-Press, the Twins are expected to trade Johan Santana within 10 days.
By the way, in his blog for ESPN.com, citing ‘a couple of sources,’ Buster Olney writes that the Red Sox have taken Jon Lester of the table.
According to Joel Sherman in the New York Post, “The Mets fear their front-runner status is being floated by the Twins as a way to provoke the Yanks back into more serious discussions, which in turn would re-energize the Red Sox.”
Sherman quotes an official from an opposing team who says the Mets offer has not changed since December, but that is when Phil Hughes was being offered by the Yankees and the Red Sox were giving multiple options as well.
…from what i can gather, the Twins are holding this whole process up more than any one – as they continue to flip flop between wanting a basket of prospects or a major-league center piece…
…the sense i get is that the Mets are trying to fine a way to offer one or two better prospects and some so-so major-league talent together, which may not be Minnesota’s top option, but it’s better than two draft picks…
…again, as i have been saying for so, so long: this is going to come down to santana and his agents, and how much pressure they put on the Twins…from what i can gather out of people connected to santana, he and his agents may have hinted to the Twins that a decision must be made within the next day or so…i don’t think they went as far as to set a deadline, or make any specific demands, but that may not be far behind…
one day he’s coming ,next day he’s not…..ho hummmmm
He’ s coming all right.
The Twins hand has finally been forced.
There ain’t no better offer.
There will never be a better offer.
The Yankees and Red Sox are okay with him going to the NL and the Mets.
Schedule the press conference and give Omar an extension.
Red Sox and Yankees want the trade to happen, because
(A) they no Santana will end up on the Mets anyway, and
(B) in 2010, the do not want to face
Reyes SS
Castillo 2B
Wright 3B
Beltran CF
Texeira 1B
FMART LF
CGomez RF
FPena C
Pitcher
Santana
Maine
Perez
Mulvey
Humber
that lineup isnt realistic, probably no Texeira, probably not FMart and gomez, and Francisco Pena might not work out. plus who says humber and mulvey will work out, humber hasnt proved a thing yet and mulvey has upside but not much else. But defidently your lists are best case scenarios.
What makes you think we can get Santana and somehow keep Mulvey, Humber, Gomez, and FMart?
I believe magic00700magic was trying to convey the idea that the Yanks and Sox want that deal to happen as a trade, and not as a free agent signing next off-season. His lineup he listed in his post was a possible future Mets lineup based on keeping all our current prospects because we signed Santana as a free agent instead of acquiring him via trade.
There is no way that Castillo is a starting 2B in 2010. If he is above league average in 2008 I will be shocked.
Wait..Am I the only one who thinks Twins might get more at the all star break than they are getting rightnow when one the AL east team (BOS or Yanks) are down by 5 games or Mets are down by 4-5 games to the phillies?
I realize Johan might not waive his no trade but why wouldn’t he…since these are the only teams who could pay him 120mil in the open market at end of the season?
I think Twins did overplay their hands but now they realize that they have no choice..hold on until the trading deadline and hope Mets and one of the AL team is down and desparetly need his services.
we know for sure one of the AL East team is going to be behind. I think Twins are hoping without Johan in their pitching staff Mets might not be leading the division either therefore will giveup Fmart along with other propects.. than again giving up so many prospects for half a season might not what teams want.
You certainly may not be the only person who holds that belief, but I strongly disagree. If the Twins wait until the trade deadline, even if the Mets/Yanks/Red Sox need him to have a chance at overcoming the Phils/Braves/Red Sox/Yanks, the Twins won’t get nearly as much as they would get now because Santana will be 3 months away from free agency and would have no incentive to sign a contract in July when he can let a bidding war happen 3 months later? With that having been said, no team in their right mind would trade the same package for 7 years of Johan that they would trade for 3 months of Johan… yes, more teams might be involved in the bidding because they won’t have to pay him yet, but it’ll be at a far reduced price. Unless of course, Johan signs an extension in July… but that doesn’t seem likely right now. Bill Smith knows he needs to trade Johan soon or convince ownership to pony up some dough.
Plus, what if he gets hurt? Who’s going to trade for a hurt pitcher down the stretch? An injury is also on the mind of Johan. He wants to get traded before ST and eventually will have to make a stand soon. An injury could cost him a few millions. He’ll get a ton of money but not as much as he would get injury free.
So the mets are the front runners now?
There is a flaw in this thinking here. Somehow by floating to the press this is coming to a head and that a team other than the Yanks are in the lead will magically make them toss in Kennedy and put Hughes back on the table? Why exactly? The Sox and Yanks could care less if the Mets get him…they just dont want him going to their cheif competition. Should a rumor be floated that the Sox are close or the yanks are close…that could spur action. But if it is the METS who are being floated as in the lead…if anything…it is more likely to keep the other two players at bay….increasing our leverage.
Hang tight Omar. Keep Fmart and Guerra and Pelfrey out of this deal and still get Santana and you are officially annoited the DEALMAKER OF THE DECADE
I don’t agree — the idea is that while the Red Sox don’t care if Santana winds up on the Mets (in fact, they might even be happy to see that happen considering that Santana would be out of the AL and on a team who, with Santana, still has a weaker starting rotation than the Sox), the Yankees DO care because the Steinbrenners are notoriously hostile towards both the Red Sox and their intra-market competition, the Mets. So by floating the Mets as the front-runners, the Twins hope to energize the Yanks, who want Santana on the Twins or Mariners or Rangers (i.e. away from Boston and New York), and in turn energize the Red Sox, who have the guy they’ve probably wanted all along in Buchholz or a Lester/Ellsbury package, which simply won’t happen.
I dont think the new ownership of the yankees cares that much about what the mets do anymore. that kind of thinking went out with george.
I agree with gowrightgo. The Yanks know (as does everyone in baseball) that the only teams with a real shot at Santana are them, the Mets, and the bosox. No other teams have shown interest.
Now, if the Yanks don’t want him, the best alternative for them is that he goes to the Mets. Sure, they would prefer him to go somewhere else, but they know that’s not going to happen. The only other alternative right now is Boston.
So floating the Mets as front-runners will only energize the Yanks if they really want him. Which it seems they don’t unless they can get him for a song.
The only other thing that would motivate the Yanks would be the bosox upping their package. And now there are rumors that they doing the opposite.
I disagree again to be honest — we are all assuming that the only player that the Twins are interested in from the Yanks is Phil Hughes. You guys don’t think it’s possible that the Twins are trying to get the Yanks to create a package of their best high-ceiling prospects (remember, they haven’t been drafting based on their slot like the Mets have, so they have guys like Austin Jackson to include in a trade, whereas the Mets farm system takes a HUGE hit after the big 4 of F-Mart, Gomez, Pelfrey, and Guerra). So lets say the Yanks don’t want Santana going to the Red Sox or the Mets, like I believe, but don’t want to give up Hughes… you guys honestly don’t think the Yanks can compete with the Mets package without giving up Hughes?
C’mon, I know we’re all Mets fans here, but lets be realistic for one second. You’re crazy to think that a package of Ian Kennedy along with Jackson, Tabata, and another high-ceiling Yankees farmhand isn’t better than the Mets package of Gomez, Guerra, Mulvey, and Humber. Absolutely crazy.
What I’m trying to say is that I agree that the Yanks won’t include Phil Hughes just to keep Santana from going to the Mets – to that end, Hughes is a Yank up until the second that the headline, “Red Sox-Twins agree in principle to a deal for Santana” appears on the bottomline. However, I don’t think the apple falls far from the tree — Hank doesn’t want Santana on the Mets — and if he can compete with the Mets’ package and not give up Hughes, I think he will.
Jeremy,
You still haven’t explained why the Yanks would be energized because they want to see Santana in Texas or Seattle. Would they bid higher to get those teams involved?
Of course it’s possible the Yanks could get Santana without offering Hughes. The question is: do they want to? The Yanks would have to pay at least another $10M in luxury tax on top of what they are already paying as the most expensive team in baseball. Plus maybe $25M for his salary. Is it worth it for them to pay another $35M/yr for one player plus give up many promising and cheap prospects for the privelege of keeping him from the Mets who will have little bearing on their pennant race?
This reminds me of when Omar was going after Beltran and ppl were saying the Yanks (who had shown little interest) were going to swoop in and top the Mets offer because they didn’t want the Mets to have him.
Crooked Numbers,
I think you misunderstood my point. Of course it would make literally zero sense for the Yankees to bid higher to get Seattle and Texas involved — if anything, that would further eliminate them from contention — my point is that Seattle and Texas have no chance at landing Johan because they can’t pay the contract, and when the price-tag on a guy is high, the only profits to be had are in big markets. So do I think it’s worth it financially for the Yankees to keep Johan Santana from Mets and Red Soxx, the answer is a resounding yes. In terms of the Red Sox, the answer is obvious, because as you correctly note, the Red Sox do have a bearing on the Yanks’ pennant race. In terms of the Mets, the better the Mets become, the less money there is to be made in the market for the Yankees because we share the same market. Even outside of personal vendettas that the Steinbrenners (whether it be George, Hank, Hal, or all of them), the Yankees DO have a vested interest in seeing Santana not go to the Mets, and since he CAN’T go to another team (like Seattle, Texas, and apparently the Angels if Rotoworld is right — they said the Twins tried to get LA involved recently but they wouldn’t bite), their best move might be to steal him at a reduced price, while keeping Hughes. I hope this clarifies my argument.
Jeremy
May I ask where the Yankees will lose money in the NY market if the Mets get Santana? Other than Santana jerseys, I’m not seeing where.
It’s exponential from a fan-base theory perspective. The better the Mets do (in a less competitive league, mind you), the more people in New York root for the Mets. The more people who root for the Mets, the more games people decide to attend at Shea/Citi Field instead of Yankee Stadium, the more hot dogs they buy at Shea, and the more Mets jerseys (not only Santana) these fans buy. One fan who decides that he’d prefer to root for a team that has a better chance at winning the NL (with Santana) than the Yanks have at winning the AL (without Santana) is an exponential increase in dollars for the Mets, and dollars away from the Yanks.
Excuse me, he or she. Plus the kids of the new fans. Etc.
Personally, I dont see Yankee fans turning around and going to Mets games just because they have Santana. Thats a rediculous comment. A very casual fan would be the only one who goes by who’s better and how many of those are out there? A hundred or two? That is not a big enough number to cause ny headaches for either team. Hot dogs? Jerseys? I think you over estimate their significance. The only increase in jerseys would be for the name Santana on back. People are going to buy jerseys and hats and t-shirts no matter who is on the teams. The Yankees will still out sell the Mets whichever team Santana goes on. The numbers will not be that significant for the Yankees. I doubt their revenues will drop at all. The Mets of course would show an increase, but nothing that would scare the Yankees.
I’d want to keep Mulvey and Guerra. Mulvey, because the Mets say he’s a true pitcher and Guerra because of his upside. Humber has neither and Pelfrey throws hard but can’t find the corners and doesn’t have a fourth pitch. Our rotation in 2010 would be:
Santana
Maine
Perez
Guerra
Mulvey
I’d offer Church, Gomez, Pelfrey, Humber or Heilman, Gomez, Pelfrey, Humber.
Do you think that we are looking at Livan OR Johan? Is signing BOTH an option?
Everything would depend on whom we have to give up to land Johan. If Pelfrey and Humber are both leaving, we’d need a #5. If not, maybe not.
I think we would get Livian no matter what just for depth reasons. Everyone knows Duque is going to go down at some point and i think they prefer he goes to the pen.
Still not sold that Duque should be in the pen. He is also, when healthy, possibly their best SP.
Maybe Livan can go to the pen? He isn’t nearly as good as Duque at this point.
And, that should take care of the happy family feelings, if Livan shows up and bumps Duque to the pen!
Agreed. When El Duque was on the field his numbers were better than Perez/Maine/Glavine. Lower WHIP than all three and the same number of quality starts as Maine/Perez, but with much fewer appearances. He may not have the no-hitter upside that Maine/Perez have on any given day, but I don’t see El Duque imploding against the Marlins the last weekend like Ollie Perez. Maybe El Duque’s reliability makes him a nice fit for the pen, but he certainly doesn’t deserve to be there because of poor performance. And doesn’t El Duque take forever to get ready? Several hours of stretching and throwing and running and all that?
Given that the Twins are apparently looking for “major league ready” talent, it’s not impossible that Maine would be thrown into this trade in place of Mulvey. That would mean that Livan could replace Pelfrey, et al in the #5 hole (and Pelfrey could get more experience–and a secodn pitch?– in the pen, taking El Duque’s spot during his DL stints). Maybe that’s what the Mets are angling at. The net effect would be to replace Maine with Santana and our #5 musical chairs with Livan.
Hotrod
Thing is if Pelfrey isnt starting on the big club, he will be starting at AAA. You dont get experience and work on a second pitch, sitting in the bullpen and maybe throwing 2 innings once a week. It also doesnt build up arm strength to pitch 180+ innings a season.
Hotrod,
Why would Omar throw Maine into the deal? That would be like the Yanks throwing in Wang. Do you know something we don’t? Because if the Yanks aren’t willing to give up Wang, I don’t think Omar will be offering Maine.
Throwing in Maine for Santanna inno way resembles the Yankees throwing in Wang.
Lets be realistic. The real Maine showed himself in the 2nd half of 07, not the first half. If the Twins would take him, build the trade around him while he is still viewed as something other then a 5th starter.
Have you ever seen a John Maine pitching stat in your life? Do you mean when he came milimeters from pitching the first no hitter late in the second half of ‘07?
5th Starter? John Maine? Really?
Really PhillR?
******* IP, SO, K/9, WHIP, ERA
Maine 191, 180, 8.48, 1.27, 3.91
Wang 199, 104, 4.70, 1.29, 3.70
Wang pitched 8 more innings and had a slightly better ERA. Maine had a much better strikeout rate and way more SO’s. WHIP is about even.
How do we know Perez/Maine are going to have atleast similiar type of year as they did last year? I mean aren’t we relaying way too much on Perez and Maine? with heatlh issues with the other two two pitchers..this could turn into a horrible season. We NEED Johan more than anyone else esp after 2008 season we won’t control any pitching(besides Maine)….I would give up Fmart and anyone else.This team is built to win rightnow.. I don’t want to wait another 10 years to get to WS if these propects don’t pan out!
take it easy dont let the twins see ya swet or it will take more prospects to get it done
I hope he comes here! Waiting and dealing with all of this for the last months will really make me angry if we don’t get him.
I agree with you, we need him !!! We need strong pitching to knock those braves and phillies on thier butts!!!!!
Surprising…..Santana is going to be traded? First I’ve heard of it.
Who is the frontrunner?
hasn’t this type of comment gotten old?
well normally the comments are hes going to be traded before camp, or hes staying. but this comment almost puts out a deadline, so johan is probably gettin tired of the waiting and is finally pushin for a deal soon, which means hes probably telling which team he prefers and thats the mets. so its not lookin bad for johan in queens.
He’s not coming here… if he was coming here, he’d be here already. It getting regoddamnedriculous at this point to have this story run day after day after day. It’s enough. This team is always the silver medal.. the bridemaid. Its not changing now or anytime in the near future.
If you were the Minny GM wouldn’t you wanna drag the Sox and Skanks back into it? You are trading the best pitcher in baseball and not really getting fair value for him. But if you know you HAVE to trade him you get the most you CAN get for him. It’s crunch time for Minny right now.
Agreed Big Lou. This isn’t about the Mets being Bridesmaid and a FA not wanting to come here. This is about Minny getting the best possible package. We have been told the Mets prospects suck, now we all know that isn’t as true as people think. Yes we may win the Johan sweepstakes by default but it is not because we are not liked, it is because our offer can’t match the other teams unless 1 Jose Reyes is involved.
I didn’t mean that he didn’t want to come here.. depending on who you talk to, the Mets are his first true love. I’m saying that historically, we always come in second in these things.. Plus. regardless of the rumors, I can’t believe that Wilpon is willing to pay the contract.. I don’t see him paying out the largest pitching contract in history when he will already break attendance records this year despite the collapse and a 20% increase in ticket prices. Add to that Citifield will be sold out for every game in 2009.. why spend the money when the fannies will already be in the seats..
Just like arod, the Yankees dont need him to make money. They make a boat load without him. They signed him to that crazy contract because after everything is said and done, they will make MORE than the $30 million they are spending via endorsements, shirts, advertising etc. This would be the same thing with santana.
Look at this link for more info. You will need to cut and paste it into your browser:
sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=ApGw4.8ITCIJZAHbCJ3D2QQRvLYF?slu
To me it would be a worse PR nightmare if it comes out that he was unwilling to pay over even the Kazmir trade. In todays day and age with the media and the internet it is very easy for the truth to come out stating he didn’t want to pay. I feel if they weren’t serious about signing him then they wouldn’t be in this race this late in the game. I am fairly sure that the Wilpons will ante up. They have over paid for 2 players in recent history why wouldn’t they ante up now and risk getting bashed in the papers?
Because I genuinely think that Wilpon is a dollars and cents guy that could care less about winning championships. When attendance was down and the team wasn’t making $$, he anted up. Other than ticket sales and broadcasting numbers, I don’t think he is as concerned with baseball jerseys and santana items. The Mets cut of that money is probably a lot smaller than you’d think. Attendance is already through the roof, new stadium will be sold out nightly.. I can’t see him paying.. Lord do I wish he will, but I feel like I’ve seen this story before and I am guessing that we won’t get him based on that..
Well if i was a smart GM, and im trading for the best pitcher in baseball, I wouldnt be stupid and send him to the team who just won the world series or even to another team in the AL….but maybe thats just my thinking
i think your looking for ri-goddamned-iculous not ‘regoddamnedriculous’
“your?”
nice idea though.
Don’t ask me why, but this runaround is beginning to remind me of the columns of the New York Times editorialist Thomas Friedman, who has been writing since 2004 that “the next six months will be critical” for Iraq’s future.
For sure, the next ten days will determine Joan’s trade destination. Unless, of course, they don’t.
Next 10 days, huh? I remember when he was going to be traded before Christmas.
Never said which Christmas.
That’s funny. Too true, but very funny.
I know we will see ,I hope he comes here pitching for us!
Let’s trade Fernando AND PELFREY with 4 other prospects. Who cares if Lester AND Hughes are off the table. The PIRATES might swoop in. Trade ‘em all now!
;)
No it will be the Giants likelast year with Zito. Give him a twentytwo year extention. Full AARP, a club house rocking chair, and hire a Gin Rummy player to boot.
Wait, when did the Giant’s sign Ricky?
points guy?
10 days….so the Skanks will be in, and out, about 10 more times.
maybe theyll change their mind 10 times per day every day.
The longer it goes the better it is for the Mets. Santana wants to be dealt before P&C’s If he isn’t then he isn’t and the Twins end up with a few draft picks…..They need to deal him but don’t forget the lucky party that gets him also has to sign an extension. That’s no laughing matter that’s a lot of money.
The Twins are not goingt o get what they want. It is unfair to demand the world when the team that surrenders all of it’s prospects then needs to pony up 100mil.
this off season is WAYYY to long. need to stop visiting this page as often lol, its basically the same story copy and pasted every day lol
Yep. And no team that ever trades an Ace ever really gets back anything near equal value. Pedro got the Expos Carl Pavano and Tony Armas Jr. Schilling and Johnson got back a collection of OKs.
Minnesota shouldn’t be so shocked by the Yankees and Red Sox refusal to part a bunch of top spects in addition to having to pay the guy the highest salary in the history of major league pitchers.
They should be happy the Mets are willing to offer so many prospects to them. It’s as high a price anyone will have paid for a pitcher since the Mets ponied up for Viola years ago.
honestly, after looking at highlights of gomez on mlb.com becuase im making a mets highlight video, this kid can play baseball. seriously, he could be the twins answer for losing torii hunter, and more. i dont see why they just dont take him a bunch of pitching prospects and cut there lose. i dont think johan is going to accept a mid year trade, then theyll really feel like idiots for getting nothing basically
I think he will accept a mid year trade but will refuse to sign an extension. If opening day happens and Johan is a Twin he will hit free agency which means the most ridiculous numbers ever will start to get thrown out.
the numbers would be amazing, possibly 200 million after options, signing bonuses and incentives
If that is true, and Santana’s people believe it (and think he stays healthy!), then why would they want a trade now, when they won’t have any leverage (other than torpedoing the deal?)
To get a contract now, he either needs to take a home town discount, or effectively give the team that trades for him the same basic discount.
Remember, he is buying out the last year of his current contract, and the buyer should get a discount for that.
Effectively, the team will be assuming the injury risk for 2008 that Santana currently has.
So, he should tell the Twins that he is playing out the string since that is the only way he will ever see a bidding war, or close to the A Rod money he seems to want.
But the thing is stickguy, he really can demand whatever he wants because he is in the unique situation of being able to choose exactly where he plays while under contract. If he gets dealt, and doesnt like an offer that he is getting from the Mets, or Yankees or Sox or whoever, he can just kill the deal and hit the open market next year. I still wouldnt include any of the big 3 in a deal. They can have Pelfrey, Humber and Mulvey and Church and Gotay or whatever, but I still say it isnt worth Gomez, Martinez or Guerra for one year of Santana and then the ability to pay him market value after that. And even without those 3 in a deal, I still wouldnt go past 5 years gaurunteed in a contract no matter what.
stickguy, the thing about waiting is you have to be confident he will not get hurt and have a Johan like season. Say he takes a 15 day dl stint that hurts his value immensely or if he is not Johan like for the whole season that hurts him as well. Baseball is all about the guarantee. Why risk a difference of 50 mill guaranteed when in either deal he is getting great security. To me the 150 for 6 years is somewhat of a bargain when you take into account how many teams would be jumping through hoops to sign him next year.
So it is written…..
*Santana has a no trade clause and wants to play for the Mets
*The Mets want Santana
*The other 2 teams don’t really want him and prefer to see him on the Mets as the lesser of 2 evils
*The Twins need to trade him or get stuck with only 2 picks
……So it shall come to pass.
I agree, but Minny has to agree to make it happen.
They can either agree soon, or get back a) an even less desirable package midseason, or b) 2 draft picks. The choice is their’s.
For a team clamoring about needing near major league ready talent in the deal, a smaller midseason package and 2 draft picks doesn’t seem to be congruent with their philosophy.
If they don’t make a move soon, this has disaster written all over it for Minny.
Thats a great analysis and suggests strongly they do a deal now and do it with the team left standing…us mets
Remember a team in the same money situation did it with Soriano. The Nationals kept Soriano past the trade deadline and just took the picks.
don’t forget, their is only 1 legit major leaguer in any of the deals, and that is Santana.
So it isn’t ridiculous for them to keep him and try to win this year.
Exactly — you never get value back for a true ace. That’s why my screen name is istillhatemdonaldgrant — I’m still mad about the Seaver trade. Anyone remember Dan Norman (supposedly the next Lee May, but never made it), or Steve Henderson (never better than a slightly above average hitter), Doug Flynn (no hit great fielding 2nd baseman) and Pat Zachry, an average major league pitcher. BTW, if that’s what Seaver was worth, the Mets are offering a significantly better package for Santana, who’s not the equal of Seaver.
Off hand the best return package I can recall for a pitcher was what the Marlins got for Beckett, and he wasn’t really an ace when they traded him, just a good arm who oitched great in the WS against the skankees. He matured into an ace his 2nd year w/the RSox.
Even the trade for Beckett is not what you’d call equal value. Sure Beckett was young, but he was an established WS winner and clearly on the path to being a dominant ace.
Even though Han-Ram turned out to be a special player, at the time of the trade he and Sanchez were just 2 mid level prospects with tremendous upside.
The Red Sox would make that deal over and over again.
Hanley was the top prospect in the Red Sox organization, and the top SS prospect in the minor leagues the year before he was traded. He had a mediocre year with the spotlight on him and his value dropped a little, but he was never a “mid level prospect.”
Deadlines could work for the worse….
So let me get this straight… the mets are either front runners or not in the running at all. Our prospects are either the bees knees or total garbage.. The Yankees offer is off the table, or they may be willing to add both Hughes and Kennedy.. and Boston may or may not still be in the running, yet may also be the frontrunners.. this it the most asinine gossip news story I have ever put myself in the middle of. This will all be made ever worse when we inevitably don’t get him…
Acoording to truth and rumors Bostons offer is off the table citing a source from the boston globe.
Yahoo sports rumors …sorry
First, the Post’s Sports section is garbage. Don’t trust Sherman.
Second, this is one of the few times where Buster Olney might be right.
Third, the reason this is being held up is likely because the Twins and Mets can’t agree on whether Martinez or Gomez goes in the deal.
Oh, and, blah blah blah.
Can’t wait for there to be a press conference of some sorts. As much as I appreciate that this story has at least given us something to talk about in an otherwise uneventful winter, I’m quite ready for this story to be put to rest.
Someone, just do something already!
This is really gaining media momentum which means it will go down soon. Matts point that it will happen when Santana starts pushing the Twins is turning out to be right on target. Good point stated earlier by icedrake523 that the FMart addition may be holding it up but I go with Matt on this…..Smith needs to be pushed to take the Mets offer (what ever it is) and Santana is starting to push.
I’m also encouraged by some quotes in the NY press today that Omar is optimistic about there still is a possibility to get Santana. He hasn’t given up. All good signs. Oh boy!……this is getting exciting. It is getting close.
The Mets are running out the clock. The Twins have pressure from Santana and within to trade him within 10 days (probably will be done sooner). Mets are likely holding this out and waiting for the Twins to give up and take Carlos Gomez.
I hope you’re right. Gomez “may” be a similar player to Jimmy Rollins in the future, but Martinez projects to having more power, similar to Carlos Lee. Given the choice, I’ll take the more power, because we already possess the speed in the form of Reyes and Wright.
Look there is no need to freak ourselves out trying to figure out what’s going on because really no one knows. You have so many reporters getting conflicting info each day and we read all of it and they try and connect the dots which never works. You gotta figure this will be settled one way or the other with the next few weeks, so just sit back and wait for the Twins press conference saying they are keeping him or the Mets saying they traded for him or the Sox/Yanks.
I’m just not going to overanalyze this anymore. Who the frontrunner is…blah blah blah, no one knows.
If Boston pulled their offer, after Cashman admitted they do not want Hughes on the table, then why would Omar even consider taking Smith seriously? Smith has no leverage now. Let’s hope it all benefits us.
Because Hankenstein changes his mind more than he changes his underware.
underwear
But Hank isn’t the only decision maker. Honestly because that Jackass is the one with the press quotes everyone thinks he is the new George. The heads of the Yankees are Hank and Hal despite Hal NEVER saying anything to the press. The issue with the Yanks is they are split down the middle of what to do. Cashman and Hal do not want to trade the young crop and Hank and Randy Levine do. I don’t believe there is another voice in the organization that has a say. Ultimately Cashman should be the final voice because he is the baseball guy. The others are where they are because of Daddy not their baseball knowledge.
I really think that Minnesota would rather make a trade with the Red Sox or Yankees. Simply because they value the Sox and Yankee players the best. I have a strange feeling that Minnesota is keeping the Mets twisting in the wind, in hopes that it will scare the Sox and Yankees into sweetening there offers.
If Minnesota really liked our players, the deal would have been made already. The fact that it is taking this long makes it obvious to me.
Everyone is always using the Mets to get better offers from other teams. It’s bad enough that players always do it, but now teams are doing it too.
no matter what offer is made by any club, the offer would not be accepted right away, he would sit on the offer and wait for an equally good offer and somethin better, now that theirs pressure from santana, and they want to trade him before camp anyway, they are forced to look at whats left and decide, and hopefully its the mets offer they see as the best.
That is why Matt is right about Santana pushing the Twins …..so Smith gets it done and stops playing a waiting game by keeping the Mets as the”front runner”. However, this helps the Mets if the Yanks and Red Sox are really out. Either way this forces a resolution .
Bill Smith tried playing the Yankees and Red Sox off each other. Neither bit and now he’s stuck with the Mets. I know the Mets’ prospects are better than people give them credit but they’re not as ML ready. I seriously doubt Smith will try to play this again when he has about 3 weeks left.
Also, the Yankees and Red Sox are probably happy since neither of them are getting him. The whole backpage battle between the Yanks and Mets is overblown by the media (what a surprise). Plus right now, pretty much neither team exists between the miracle run the Giants are on and the continuously self-destructing Knicks.
I will try to put this nicely cousinjoey. That is absolutely retarded. If they liked our players, a deal would be done already? Really? Ok. Do they like players from the Yankees and the Redsox? Sure. The problem is, there is a process called negotiation. If the Twins were allowed to just pick any body in our entire system, then yes, a deal would already be done. Unfortunately, Omar has to agree to gives these guys up. I think there is a common misconception that Omar is basically offering all of our top prospects and it isnt enough. Omar doesnt want to give up all of these guys, and that is part of what is holding up a deal. Not just that the Twins are trying to make the Yankees top our offer (which is also undoubtedly true, but this is nothing but common sense. Why wouldnt they be hoping another team comes in with an offer that blows the current offers away?) You make it sound as if the Twins have their choice of any guys they want and they still wont budge. Its the same as the Yankees and Redsox offers. Most likely they want more players, and Omar smartly isnt budging.
I will try to put this nicely, nrmax88, but I don’t appreciate you calling any comment “retarded.” As for your argument with cousinjoey, you can’t leave room for the possibility that he’s right, and the Twins have targeted Hughes or Buccholz all along, and have used the Mets to try and drive up the price on the Yanks, which in turn starts a bidding war between the Yankees and Red Sox?
Remember, the goal of Bill Smith here is to give up the best pitcher on the planet, but still rip someone off as far as the future is concerned. The Twins want to be a winning club in 2010, so the fact that Santana will win a World Series for the Yanks/Red Sox is irrelevant to the Twins right now… what they want to do is devastate the farm system of a team who wants to win now, and why not do that to a team like the Red Sox or Yankees who you’ll need to beat in 2010?
Think before you criticize someone with that kind of harsh language nrmax88.
As I have said before. If the Twins are trying to drive up the price for the Yanks or Sox they would use the other team NOT the Mets. Neither the Sox or Yanks are involved to this point so the Twins are trying to use the Mets to get someone else to the table which isn’t working. Nobody wants to give up so much then pay 150 million. The Mets will probably win the sweepstakes by default
Once again, thank you nrmax88 for your always endearing comments.
My point about If Minnesota really liked our players, the deal would have been made already, means that none of the Mets Players (that are available) rate as high as the Red Sox and Yankee Players. Therefore, my opinion is that Minnesota is using the Mets as a pawn to get the Sox and Yankees to come back to the table. In hopes that a bidding war ensues.
To be honest, my sense is that Omar would trade just about anyone of our prospects. And whether it be 4 or 5 players won’t matter. Omar realizes that his job security is riding on bringing in a front line pitcher and getting the Mets back to the post season.
Gomez
Fmart
Church
Pelfrey
Guerra
Heilman
Jose Jimenez
Ryan Owen
Hector Pellot
for Santana and Nathan
Do it already!
a little too much…
nevermind sorry i didn’t see for Nathan
No. You were right. It’s still too much.
You forgot Jose Reyes, Carlos Beltran, John Maine, Mike Carp, Mulvey, Gotay, Rick Peterson, Kevin Burkhardt and Keith Hernandez. You guys are seriously delusional. Try actually following real baseball instead of just playing MLB the Show all day long. This isnt like that.
If the Mets are indeed Johan’s first love, the same was said about Alex Rodriguez…. I’m not holding my breath on this but if this is true that Santana will be traded within the next 10 days, it means that his agents would want this to be over and done with whether Santana is traded or not. My gut feeling is Santana is traded… whether it is to the Mets will depend on whether Martinez is part of the package (I certainly hope not!!) or Reyes gets dealt (fat chance!!)… The way I am looking at this right now: the Mets offer probably is looking like this: Gomez, Mulvey, Humber, Guerra, Heilman and/or Church for 72 hours to negotiate a contract with Santana and a prospect.
Kevin Mulvey
Ryan Church
Philip Humber
Damian Easley
Aaron Heilman
Carlos Gomez
Mike Carp
Ivan Maldonado
for
Johan Santana
We sign Xavier Nady and keep Deolis Guerra and F-Mart.
assuming this is Sesame Street’s “one of these things is not like the others,” my guess is Damion Easley. Do I get a cookie?
That’s too much. Also, Nady isn’t a free agent. He got a new 1-year deal with the Pirates.
We are getting close to the time when a decision is finally made (I believe). The time is now to put your best offer forward and see where it goes. Boston and the Yanks are out of it? I doubt that is entirely the case. If MN is willing to take some offer from either, the other is likely to go back to discussions and a counteroffer. Or do you think the Yanks will be ok with a Red Sox team that has just added Santana?
The Twins are stuck between a rock and a hard place.
Just hand him over already.
We’ll know within two weeks. I predict if he’s a Met, we don’t sign either free agent and we give Santana a 6th year. Minaya’s desperate to make something happen. The only wild card is if Steinbrenner can’t tolerate having such a big name go to the crosstown rival.
Just to clear some stuff up people keep saying on this blog. Just because the stadium this year and next year will be pretty much sold with or without Santana does not mean they won’t sign him. Yankees have a boat load of money regardless if they signed Arod or nor, but Arod will bring them more money than they are spending on him. Same can be said for Santana.
Look at this article posted a few weeks ago on this site. I can’t post the link so you will need to cut and paste it.
sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=ApGw4.8ITCIJZAHbCJ3D2QQRvLYF?slug=ys-gennarosantanafinal011808&prov=yhoo&type=lgns
Those financial projections such as they did for A-Rod/Yankees and they did for Santana are always too speculative to be of any worth. Nevertheless, I think Santana will only be good for business.
…also the offer above about 3 posts ago is WAYYYYYYYYY too much!
dharmabum, I replied in the other thread about the low-ball offer. It was for 2-years/$36 million. That combined with what has gone on since, I believe has soured Johan on the Twins. If the Twins decide to keep him because they won’t accept one of the offers on the table, then I predict Johan won’t have a very happy year in MN and will not sign an extension with the Twins. I do believe in his mind he’s outta there. He wants to play in NY. Greenberg is probably putting subtle pressure on the Twins now to make up their minds.
And I do believe both Hughes and Lester are off the table now.
I don’t know…I’m starting to get the feeling he may actually be moved pretty soon.
With everyone else scaling back their offers, they may have no choice but to take our deal…
Guys this is the problem with a lot of the logic. IF the Twins were trying to get a better package from the Yanks they would be playing up the Red Sox offer. They would continually say the Sox are the frontrunner but they played that hand for a few months and the Yankees did not budge. Then the Sox sort of fell back (I assume they stopped negotiating once they realized the Yanks aren’t too serious) and all of a sudden the Mets are the front runners. They are trying to get both the Yanks and Sox back to the table and trying to use the Mets. They will have to accept the Mets offer as neither the Yanks or Sox do not want to part with prospects and 150 mill. I am getting confident he will be a Met.
Agreed!
Dharamabum, I like how you come in here trying to convince us to pony up more prospects (like we decide).
The Mets already have put their best foot forward.
The Red Sox and Yankees are out of the bidding.
Just hand him over, step away, and nobody gets hurt.
best laugh of my weekend. Step away from the gun and no one gets hurt here….funny stuff
Again, as I’ve been saying for so long, never miss an opportunity to tell others “I told you so”
I’ll giv up anyone cept Pelfrey. He’s too close to being a quality pitcher.
If he can gain the slight consistency with his location, we’d be looking at a quality 4 starter.
A big jump in location and we’re looking at Chien Ming Wang type guy.
I don’t think it’s worth dealing Pelfrey for one year of Johan, even if there are only 2 other prospects tacked on. If they want Pelfrey, I’d say the best guy I will add to that is Niese or something.
Pelfrey is much closer than u guys think.
Why does everyone keep saying 1 year of Santana? I know in exact terms that is what it is but come on. We know that this trade is actually for at least 6 years of Santana. This is like a sign and trade in the NBA. If it helps you, just pretend that he is already signed for 6 years 125 million. What would your trades look like then? You might say, hey that contracts a little much or too long so I can’t offer you top notch so here is our trade of …..(the same prospects we are offering now)
Those who use the 1 year comment are looking at this in a vacuum. He will most likely not be available in 1 year. If the Twins keep him, its for an extension. If the Mets, Sox or Yankee’s get him its for 6 years.
Yes but the last 5-6 years are at market value. The premium he provides above the dollars we are paying only exist for one year.
I actually think having him signed for 6 years at 20+ mil per season, makes him even LESS attractive.
NO WAY he will live up to that contract. Maybe the first 3 years wil be worth it, and then we have an overpaid lefty throwing 89 mph for another 70 mil on our hands. NOBODY will take this contract.
Well that’s what you got, take it or leave it. Santana is like the Pedro signing. Even if he is a shell of himself in 3 years (not likely) then we have a big name to help bring in other players and give us an edge on the international market. Besides IF we were to get him at 20-25 a year I think that will actually be a bargain in a couple of years.
Your comment that having him signed makes him less attractive? Would you give up all those prospects for 1 year of Santana?
I’d deal a mid tier prospect, somewhat close to being major legue ready (mulvey) and a couple teenagers, even if that means fmart.
I don’t put much stock into teenager when talking about elite major league ready talent. FMart has as much of a chance of being a .200 hitter as he is of becoming an all star. plus u have to wait 3 years for him. over 3 years, Omar wil find 5 more FMarts.
Look, he’s a good prospect, but odds are against him becomng an all star. Keep in mind when Omar found Fmart and guerra, they were projectable kids.
Now FMart has shown some flashes of ability and Guerra is touching 94 mph. (he was upper 80s when omar got him).
I’m intrigued by Guerra’s potential given his size and that big a jump in velo, but he’s still far away.
Hitting is a complex skill. Scouts are raving about FMart right now becuz they’ve watched him hit towering HRs off batting practice fastballs as a teenager. Logically u expect him to develop the skills to aply that power in game situations. It’s not that simple tho. Not every player imporves enuf to become major leaguers. Sometimes they plateau at 19 or 20 or 21. U jus dont know.
Pelfrey is extremely close to be a major league caliber starter. I put a lot of stock into that. I’m not as much concerend with an 18 yr old. Omar can find more 18 yr olds who can hit HRs off batting practice fastballs.
Omar is a super scout, so I’m convinced that in the next 3 years, he can find another teenager OR even better, get an undervalued major leaguer or somethign and fill that hole.
So would I deal prospects for 1 year of santana? YES, but it depends on which prospects.
Major league ready prospects with elite upside do not fit in this trade. I think Omar agrees with this logic. I’d be shicked to see Pelfrey included in a johan dela. THat would be very un-omar like to me.
well said, hes is so close, that maybe offseason work turned him into a decent #4 pitcher, and an entire year at the big leagues could turn him into something to rely on, not just a sub 500 pitcher and en ERA up around 5
I’m dont talking about Santana and will wait for the announcement of who got him.
Dont cave in Omar, Stand your ground.
Next week’s big headline: Mets ink Livan Hernandez.
I don’t see anything wrong with that and it does not keep us from getting Santana.
Dharmabum,
Are you trying to scare us Mets fans?
Sensible Mets fans realize getting an inning-eater like Livan on the cheap (to replace an aging Glavine) while keeping our highly-valued (yeah, you heard me) prospects isn’t the worst case scenario…far from it.
Worst case-scenario is trading for Santana and giving away our highly prized prospects at a dime a dozen, depleting our depth & future, giving Santana a HUGE long term contract and then Santana getting TJ surgery.
Now, that is worst case scenario.
Signing Livan and keeping our prospects might actually be the best long term option for sustained success (and by that I mean being a contending team year in & out)
yea but if you give up heilman or church, plus two other prospects wont destory the farm and it will allow a platoon in right or just the loss of heilman, neither of which will give doubt to the mets season. plus if we sign livan then we can move duque to the pen, and all problems solved. but i agree if we give up 5 prospects in the deal, then the future could be bleak
it’s fine to buy a talent in free agency for market price.
However, giving up your top 5 prospects and giving any pitcher 25 million per is insane.
He is one arm injury away from making this the deal that sinks the Mets.
Alou/Del Gado/Pedro/El Duque will all depart soon. I also believe Perez will sign on the west coast.
too much risk to make this deal. If Fmart and Pelfrey are not in the deal then fine. take the risk.
Even if he did get injured, it would not “sink” the Mets. We have survived bad trades before and this would not be any different. We are what we are, we have not won a WS in 22 years. If this trade helps us win one out of the 6 years he is signed and maybe get to at least 2 during that time is it not worth it?
Besides, at this point it is not our top 5. We have no idea who is or who is not in the trade. If its Pelfrey, Heilman, Curch, and Gomez. That trade is done for me. If it’s FMart, Heilman, Curch, Mulvey and Humber, done.
6 for 150 is what Mlbtraderumors is reporting. Man that’s steep. I would imagine that 6 for 130 is plenty but who knows. I guess he can put pressure on the other team by saying do you really want your fans to know you did not do this on the basis of 25 million? Imagine what would go on here if that really happen. Santana is surely in the driver’s seat.
It’s not management’s job to show us what is readily avaialble to us. If ignorant people want to be upset, management cant fix that.
Ignorant people are impossible to rationalize with. They’re ignorant most times becuz they are stupid. Bad sample to work with.
The intelligent fans will dig deeper and try to understand all the angles. They will say to themselves, “The mets are a billion dollar organization. They probably know what they’re doing. Let me see if I can understand why they decided not to pay johan $150 million over 6 years. Oh, wouldnt u know it, most pitchers, especially 30 yr old power pitchers with tons of mileage already normally fail to outproduce their contracts. Maybe that’s why the Mets didnt want do it.”
ANd perhaps on top of that, they didnt want to ALSO lose al their top prospects, which are currency for future acquistions in the event that there are urgent needs elsewhere or if a better opportunity comes along.”
6 years 150 is a bad idea. 6 years 130 is a bad idea.
the only way its a good idea in baseball terms, is if we win the world series and we increase revenue so we can spend more later. we can also try to do this thru the farm system.
one way costs 150 mil, the othr about 2 mil. another scenario is u see if ur pitchers pan out first and if they dont, deal at the break. this way at least u giv urself an opportunity to realize the potential of some of these kids.
Omar, continue doing what you have been doing all offseason… NOTHING! no i’m serious… and now we WAIT
A lot can be going on here. Omar has built an incredibly strong core for this team. He isn’t going to go out and bring the best player in the league to the mets every season. This year its johan, next year he’s an idiot if he doesnt get sabathia.
The year after he “failed’ if he doesn’t acquire felix hernandez. We can’t have EVERYONE.
If Pelfrey “clicks” and can hit the bottom of the zone with consistency, we’re going to the playoffs. in that scenario, we keep ALL our prospects and have a HUUUGE home grown fan favorite. Let the kids play, if they fail, deal at the break. Fmart and Guerra will stilll have value then. Maybe we dont get johan, but at least we still have 100 mil to invest later when he have a better idea of where our team is.
The Mets “fear”… What the hell is this, pure speculation? Give me a break, or shoot whichever Mets official had the nerve to say this to Sherman’s donk ass…
Dharmabum,
The Twins constant feet-dragging is undermining your team.
They could have had better prospects before when the hype was peaking, but they held out for more hoping for a bidding war from the big market teams, and guess what happened?
They took the risk and the teams pulled their offers.
No more Phil Hughes, no more Jon Lester.
If the Twins don’t trade him to the Mets w/ the current more than fair offer of 4 players, the Twins will get less and less later on.
Imagine if Santana starts the season and isn’t sharp.
His trade value could drop farther.
Remind how many teams are willing to pay $25 million per and give up their first child?
The Twins hand is forced, they miscalculated, they overvalued their leverage, and they need to man up and take the best deal now.
They need to call the Angels. Talk about a team with depth.
The Mariners are about to acquire Johan-lite in Bedard. They should call the Angels and ask for Ervin Santana, Kendry Morales and 2 other double A prospects.
Ervin and Kendry can start right away. Ervin jus had a big winter, maybe he’s turned the corner. He’s a young major leaguer who throws gas and has had scucess before.
Kendry would hit .300, with 23+ HRs right now if someone would giv him 550 at bats. Just my opinion based on his minor league stats and what I’ve seen of him. He’s a swtich hitting 1B with big power and strong contact skills.
Ad a minor leauge arm or 2, and I can’t see how both teams would not be happy.
When have the Angels ever traded away their best prospects?
Never!
I think the worst thing for the Twins is if the Mets do sign Livan and call it an offseason.
What will the Twins then do?
Imagine if the Mets pulled their offer.
Seriously if Lester and Hughes aren’t available anymore, maybe not Ellsbury either.
The Twins ain’t paying Santana.
No way, no how.
Can you imagine the Twins having the highest paid pitcher in all of baseball tied to a 5-7 year contract!
Get serious.
The Twins are going to announce the Mets trade within a week, and Smith is already starting his damage control speech.
I tried to post that yesterday. What if the Mets were to say to Smith listen, here is our final offer and you have 24 hours to decide. If they say no then we publicly declare ourselves out of the race. If we are publicly out of it Smith is screwed. Who would he then have for leverage with other clubs with the Mets, Skanks, and Sox out of it? He would be stuck with Johan and he knows it so he would have to take our final offer.
I remember. I advocated against it since I felt an ultimatum makes no sense if you really value getting the player. In this case…a majority of us want to acquire him for some set of prospects so if they pass on the ultimatum…you lose the player.
That said..I can not even imagine what the landscape would like if we pulled out. Santana would be had for peanuts and no extension by some random club looking for a one year rental
that would work but santana would veto any trade like that, smith would have to do back to the yanks/sox/mets and beg them to take santana off their hands for less than their current offer
Uh o. The buzz over at Pete Abe’s blog is that the yankees are closing in on a deal for santana after the twins told them a package centered around Kennedy and Austin Jackson, and two other prospects would get it done. Their saying the deal would be Kennedy, Austin Jackson, Alan Horne, and 1 other prospect, and it could be done today or tomorrow. Is this any better than our package? Not even close.
Thats actaully about the same as our offer.
Horne throws gas and jus dominated doiuble A. Austin Jackson is at least as good Gomez. Similar athleticism with more baseball skills.
Kennedy has shownt eh ability to get major leaguers out. My guess is he’ll be hit harder this time around, but can stil settle in as a nice #4 or 5.
Not a bad haul at all. I REALLY like that Horne guy. BA scouts say his mechanics will lead to injuries. These were the guys that told me Prior’s mechanics were so smooth he was a surefire durable guy.
If the Twins can make this happen, I’d be satisfied if i were a Twins fan.
Jackson is a lot closer to the bigs than Gomez. Horne is better than anyone we offer cept Pelfrey. Kennedy is on par with Mulvey, Heilman or Humber.
If thats the same as our offer why do it? Why send him to an AL team over the NL if offers are equal? Also if he really wants the NL and the Mets then why risk pissing Santana off? This may be just to scare Omar into throwing in F-Mart which he shouldnt. Screw them. Let them send him to the Skanks and regret it forever when they have their GREAT number 5 pitcher in Kennedy.
Piss him off? Santana is first and foremost about the $$. So why wouldn’t he want to go to a team that hands out 15million dollar contracts like they were Halloween candy?
Still doesn’t look like the Stankees are giving up that much, but the GMs are supposed to know the prospects better than I do!
Is that for real? Well if Smith wants Ian Kennedy and Austin Jackson that bad let him have them. Ian Kennedy is no way near Humber, Gueera or Pelfrey in my opinion. To me Pelfrey is major league ready and what we are offering along with him or the others is far more valuable than that offer from the Skanks. If Cashman gets that deal done I hope we steal him next year to be our GM since he is a free agent.
Kennedy had a monster 19 innings in yankee stadium. its an incredibly small sample size, but his minor league stats are good too.
Id take Pelfrey over him for sure, but how can u say humber and guerra are clearly better?
Humebr hasn’t done anything and it’s not like he features particularyl great stuff. He’s lost lots of velo.
Guerra is a projectable teenager that throws hard.
Id take Guerra over Kennedey cuz of his upside, but Humber?
Even if u like our guys better, ucant say our guys are “clearly” better.
Like I said with all offers being equal, Smith is stupid to keep Johan in the AL.
I want to see the Twins trade Johna to the Yankees.
They don’t have the huevos to do that.
In an even trade, he comes to the NL.
also, horne doesnt get much pub becuz of hughes and joba. If horne was in our farm system, ud be crying bloody murder if we traded him for johan.
He’s upper 90s gas and misses bats. A nice pick up after losig Garza.
say hello to kyle lohse and brother hernandez people.
Hello
mrmet86, i didn’t see anthing to that effect on the blog. can you paste the link?
Why don’t you post a link if that’s a real source then jackass
nice try to get everyone to flip out….link?
Where does the Skankee payroll go then?
250+?
Its a lie…I got this from the Yankees Blog:
“haha, someone posted a fake yankees/santana rumor on metsblog and they all freaked out.”
how come the yanks dont mind giving up 5 prospects for santana, but we do?
once again we play like a AAAA team.
Omar, Fred,jeff,howard, mets…you suck.
I dont believe this rumor.
ohh believe it
yanks ws champs next 5 years.
mets 3rd place next 100
get the hell of metsblog.com with that crap, you stupid shankee fan
you’re not fooling anyboy ugmets21. we all know you are a troll.
Post a link or GTFO
No such story on his blog, obviously.
Yankees want that contract as much as Alex Rodriguez wants bad press. (And bad hair days)
for all of you who thinks im not loyal you are dead wrong…i love my mets. i am just tired of mediocracy. you as fans must understand that. we always play fiddle to yanks. thats all.
“mediocracy”
It’s “mediocrity” u dumbass. how are u not banned?
dude, no matter what you ever say, you will always be known here as a troller. it’s the way you post. it’s just obvious. and, in the longshot that you are actually a real met fan, saying that you are going to become a yankee fan because you don’t like the wilpons and the team being a “aaaa” franchise, makes you worse than a troller. so, either way, you get no respect from me.
Mistermet aka firemetsmanagement. If you were a true Mets fan, you’d never say you’re going to be a Skankees fan, which you said yesterday. Since you’re only a fair weather fan, please go root for the Skanks. This blog would be much better without you and your stupid posts.
Me thinks you should learn proper english
maybe we can trade oliver perez and keep some prospects we are going to get santana what bout a rotation of
johan santana
pedro martinez
john maine
orlando hernandez
livan hernandez
mike pelfrey
mets get santana and a prospect
twins get oliver perez,church or gomez,kevin mulvey and deolis guerra or hielman
and with the money citi bank is giving us we can sign santana. the mets are getting 400 million over a 20 year period and the name fits right because it is in a citi and citi field is the perfect name. who agrees
or we can trade em perez, maine, pedro, el duque, pelfrey, wright, reyes, beltran, delgado, alou, FMart, gomez, mulvery , humber, feliciano, schneider, castillo, gotay, chavez, castro and niese, and we can save church so our rotation looks like:
Johan
and our line can look like this:
Pagan
Church
Carp
Johan
Johan can def bat clean up. I predict he would hit 84 HRs.
I can’t believe you guys like some skankee troll jerk you around like that. (Those bastards!)
Well, we’ll see who get the last laugh.
well i like everyone making fun of me for my spelling. i am a 9 year old kid you mean people. all because we just get church shouldnt take it out on me
I don’t believe you’re nine.
I believe you’re a bored semi-illiterate Yankee fan having fun with Mets fans psyches.
A nine year old wouldn’t make a “don’t pick on me because you made a bad trade” argument.
The regression into broken english in each posting is comical and sad.
LET MY PEOPLE GO !
comment by Sploort yesterday
“I also wouldn’t take anything Cashman says very seriously. In the above quote, he seems to be stating the direction that he wants the Yanks to take, not necessarily the direction they are taking. The last part might be especially telling, when he says he hopes ownership and the fans can sit through what might be some growing pains.
It sounds to me that the Yanks aren’t too keen on starting the season with three young arms in their rotation. It also sounds like they’re seriously considering going for Santana.
I think Cashman is just shooting off his mouth so he can say I told you so if their guys wind up panning out for the Twins down the line.”
Being able to recognize this is brilliant, a star for sploort here.
In all actuality, the Yankees remain a major player for Johan Santana’s acquisition, which means so are the Sox and any other phantom team out there. I mention this because dont anyone believe the Mets could obtain Santana for a low ball offer. Hopefully the Mets can somehow still pull this one off but until it’s official, dont count your chickens.
When I see the picture of Johan in his wind up next to Matt’s post I get goose bumps picturing him on the Shea mound opening day. Please God let this happen. I dreamt about Johan holding up a #57 Met jersey with Omar behind him smiling and the camers flashes going. I know I am such a loser to actually dream this crap but its all in good fun. I just really want this guy to be a Met already! If it doesnt happen I will be sick to my stomach.
I’m a tad quezzy, myself…
Hey met brother i agree with you!!!We need him sooo much…If we dont get him it’s going to be a long season!
its going to be a long next 6 or 7 seasons watching him pitch for some other team if this deal dont happen
Always been a big fan of Santana as it is. Just a huge baseball fan in general. And now that we are so close to possibly getting him I am pumped. We havent had such an ace pitcher like him in so long. Pedro wasnt an ace anymore when we got him. Mike Hampton was the closest thing but for one year. Leiter was more of a good #2 starter. We actually can have a legit sud pitcher for the next 6 years! Why is Omar even thinking about this? Are our prospects really that good that they arent worth getting us Johan freaking Santana!?
sorry “stud” pitcher
Yeah, F-Mart and Guerra are pretty much THAT good.
It’s fairly obvious that the Sox aren’t in it. Remember right before Christmas when it was reported that a trade was nearing completion? Yea, and we all know what happened. The Sox are only in as far as the Yankees are. Also, all signs point to Hank being the one who wants Santana, while Hal and Cashman are both arguing against it. The Mets are the team that needs him the most, and right now I think it’s just a staring contest between Smith and Minaya over an extra prospect.
very true
Well is it really worth that extra prospect to have the Yanks change their mind, throw in Hughes and we lose out on Johan Santana?
The best thing that Omar can do right now is to sign Livan. That will send a clear message to Bill Smith that he can take Omar’s offer or leave it. If he leaves it, we’re okay with the following 7 potential starting pitchers where we can pick any 5:
Pedro
Maine
Ollie
El Duque
Livan
Pelfry
Humber
We’ll be in fine shape and have the resources to acquire a top-tier pitcher in July/Aug should the pitching staff not pan out. And if we do get Santana, we have all the more choices and ability to maneuver, if need be.
There is no ace in the lot. The Mets need an
ACE!!!! These chances to get a real ACE are very rare. This is the best left handed starter in baseball today and he is only 29. I just don’t get it. The future (next 5 years) is now!!!!!
Pedro is an Ace. Maine and Perez have the potential to pitch like one on any given day (or not!). Duque is very good when healthy (aka 1/2 the season) and Pelfrey has the potential to be one when it clicks.
Humber, who knows, and Livan sucks.
But yeah, you can put together a serviceable to very good rotation out of that bunch, and no Lima or Lawrence to be found!
I could easily see Humber in the rotation at some point this year, and doing very good.
come on twinkies… pull the trigger and you never have to face johan again.
Exactly. Do they really want Johan shoved in their face every time they play the Yanks or Sox? We can even promise not to start him when we rarely play them in interleague.
how about a pinky swear
This is the most important offseason Omar Minaya and the Mets will have for possibly the next 10-20 years. Though Minaya looks into the future, the Mets are tired of waiting. His job may be in jeopardy if he does not sign Santana. The ticket sales will go down too. Mets fans want a star starting pitcher. One they haven’t had since David Cone, Doc Gooden, and Nolan Ryan. Plus, this would not be good for the new Mets stadium. The Mets have a star team as it is. It would make the Mets a complete team and a real contender. A spark (Santana). On the Mets he will light them on fire and make them possibley the best team in the National League. If Omar is as smart as he seems, he will find someway to get Santana. This is all I have to say.
100% agree with you. He needs to find a way. We all have our hopes too high at this point for Omar to fail in getting him.
I’m with you all the way. DO IT OMAR!!!!!!!!!!
They already are possibly the best team in the National League.
No. Without Santana they are not close to the best team in the NL. Have you not seen what the D-Backs have done? Their starters are ausome and they have a great young line-up. I thought you were for this trade stickguy? Did you change your mind?
Right on!!!!!!!Well said!!!! Lets bring home ACE SANTANA!!!!!
All True!
But at what cost, my friend?
Gomez, Church, Heilman, Mulvey, and Humber, or
Gomez, F-Mart, Mulvey, and Humber, or
F-Mart, Church, Humber, Mulvey, and Guerra, or
F-Mart, Pelfrey, Mulvey, Humber, and Guerra.
I would give Smith these 4 deals to choose from and 24 hours to decide or we publicly declare ourselves ot of it. These 4 offers are way better than anything the Yanks or Sox are offering. If he wants more than that he is just greedy and screw him.
I seriously doubt Church and Gomez both go.
Dont be surprised to see (Main or Perez) be the centerpiece along with Church&Guerra.
Either way, whatever the deal is Im sure its done by now, publicly complete 3 days to a week past the superbowl.
If Omar low balls the deal, a phantom team will sworm in for the kill.
Or else its gonna be Im guessing Church, Heilman, Guerra, Mulvey, F. Martinez.
no way hes sittin on 4 prospects, the orogional deal or heilman/church and 2 prospects, probably on of them being FMart.
official bedard to mariners
For everyone so sick of this whole Johan ordeal…
200 posts in less than 24 hrs. LOL.
great….. captain obvious!
you amuse me like a clown, now go get your shine box!
first to post in metsblog
Too bad Bedard got moved to the M’s I was holding out hope that the Mets could swing a deal for him at thel ast minute. I guess it’s Santana or bust now.
The Mets never had a chance to get Bedard because our prospects were not to the Orioles liking. I’m grateful that those prospects still seem to interest the Twins. So lets get it done for Santana.
Erik Bedard to Mariners; Adam Jones only player that we know sent back to Baltimore…check MLBTradeRumors.com and MLBFleeceFactor.com for more info
Santana or bust is right! Maybe this will light a fire under Smith’s ass and he will see that our offer is fair in comparison to what it looks like Baltimore is getting for Bedard. Bedard is close in talent to Santana and is signed relatively cheap for a few years. So our offer for one year of Johan and the right to give him 6 more for 150 mil should be enough for Bill Smith. He has to wake up and stop being greedy. 5 very good players from us or 3 players from Yanks or Sox? Enough of this quantity or quality debate. We are giving BOTH Quantity AND Quality.
Great point.
Let’s hope the Orioles got only a few good prospects of note. That will make accepting our package easier for Bill Smith and Twins fans to swallow.
Yes. Smith can point to Bedard trade and tell his fans look, we had only one year of Johan to offer and we would have lost him anyway. They had Bedard signed for a few years to offer and look what they got in return. Keeping that in mind what the Mets are giving is a very fair deal.
I agree. Lets get it done, Omar…….and Smith. I hope Santana pushes a little bit to get Smith moving. And I hope the Red Sox and Yanks stay out. I guess the Met fan in me is worried that some one will swoop in at the last minute. We’ll see.
In Omar we trust!
If Omar gets this done you wont hear a bad word about him from me ever.
EVER?
EVER!
I’m not sure that it’s necessarily the Twins being greedy. I think that they’ve been actively trying to reach a deal with Santana themselves. I’ve seen numerous hints at this throughout this whole ordeal. Most recently, when the deals for Morneau and Cuddyer were announced, Smith was of course asked about Santana. He mentioned that they have had extensive talks with Santana’s agent, but also mentioned that he is still listening to offers from the Yanks, Mets and Sox.
I’ve been saying all along that the Twins aren’t as desperate as a lot of people think they are. They certainly aren’t behaving like a desperate team. Most people seem to believe that trading Santana for anything they can get has been their only option. Smith has said extending Santana would be their first choice on a number of occasions. At first, I wrote this off as just a lot of talk to appease the fans, but now I’m not so sure.
If they really have been trying to keep Santana in Minnesota and really believe they can pull it off, then a lot of what has been going on starts to make quite a bit more sense. Show just enough interest in various trades to keep that door open while you hammer out details behind the scenes and on the QT with Santana’s agent. If a team comes forward with an offer they can’t refuse, they can take it. Just keep as many options open as possible.
A lot of people have pointed to this Morneau/Cuddyer deal as the Twins trying to save some face when they finally let Santana go. That may be true, but I’m not so sure. Why? The Twins just spent 104 million dollars on these two guys. The Twins have never spent a lot of money on anybody in the past, why now? There were a lot of precedents set with this deal. Also, Pohlad’s son (and Twins CEO) acknowledged the way things were done in the past, but that they want to show people that they’re willing to spend money to keep a core group of homegrown talent together. Wouldn’t Santana also fit that homegrown core description?
I think something is going to happen very soon, but it might not be a trade like everybody is expecting. I think the Twins want this wrapped up as much as anybody. I’m also sure the last thing they want is the distractions a news feeding frenzy would create if there is still is no deal by ST. I’m also thinking that if they are trying to lock up Santana, they do exactly that if they still think a deal is possible.
Just some thoughts.
i see this as the twins giving the yanks and sox ten days to sweeten their deals by adding a hughes or an ellsbury, and if they dont add one of those guys, santana will be a met
You may be right and if so we need Cashman to stay strong and keep telling Hank no to Hughes. If the Yanks dont budge neither will Boston because they both really just want to keep Johan from eachother. In the end we get Johan. Not a guarentee because Smith can decide to just keep him but fans would be pissed with just getting 2 picks and Johan will be pissed having to pitch his last year out and waiting for his big payday.
bedard traded to Mariners.
fleece factor
trade rumors
rotoworld
We know that Santana is an ace. But how do we know that some other ace will not be available in July? Santana would be great but not at the price of fleecing our best minor league talent. Besides, is anyone so sure that Pelfry will not be an ace? Were Bedard or Haren considered aces before 2007?
Pelfrey has not shown he will be an ace. No scouting report has portrayed him as any higher than a decent #3 or #4. As far as other available aces in July I’d rather not take the gamble one will be available. I’d rather try for Johan now and have him all year while we look to be the frontrunners for him rather than compete in a bidding war for a pitcher in July. The time is now.
I agree.
Actually, there have been plenty of reports over time that said he has potentially ace stuff. After last year’s poor showing you could still find people who think he could eventually project to a #2. He’s one of those guys who doesn’t seem to benefit from the Peterson approach. If he learns to locate his pitches better, then look out. You habitually sell the Mets prospects short – don’t be a homer, but don’t be a fool for the opposing GM’s viewpoint either..
I agree though, that Santana represents a bird in the hand. A proven ace. If we can get him we must.
I dont sell them short. I just dont think they are so good that we shouldnt deal them for Johan. They arent that good.
Thats it, I’m hiring Gwen Stefani to go over to Bill Smith’s house and sing this song -> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4bbYBMJT_fQ
I’m getting goosebumps….. no way i can sleep for the next couple of days after a miserable 2007 in New York sports 2008 can start off with Santana for the Mets and a Super bowl for the Giants.
Reality Bites!