In an article by Associated Press writer Dave 
Campbell, former LHP Frank Viola questions whether or not the Twins received fair compensation for letting go of Johan Santana.
Viola, as quoted by Campbell:
“I question the trade somewhat, as a fan of the Twins and not an ex-ballplayer, I guess if you’re a Minnesota fan like I am, you hope this is the best Bill [Smith] could’ve done under the circumstances.”
“Carlos Gomez, he has to be comparable to a Kirby Puckett and a Torii Hunter? Good luck with that.”
Viola left Minnesota for the Mets under similar circumstances in 1989 when he was traded for pitchers Rick Aguilera, Kevin Tapani, David West, Tim Drummond and Jack Savage.
…viola grew up on long island and went to st. john’s in queens yet is a twins fan, what’s that about…as a fan of the mets frank, i’m more than happy with the trade…
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Hey, Viola, blow your “sweet music” out of your arse.
a Twins fan? what the hell is wrong with him? a local guy who goes to college locally, in Queens, in FLUSHING for christ’s sake, and he’s a twins fan? most local kids dream about growing up and playing for the hometown team, Viola gets to do that and eventually becomes a Twins fan? I don’t get it… oh well…
Viola should know about lopsided trades. We got one good year out of him and the Twins wound up riding Aggie and Tapani to a world series title!!!
Let’s hope history doesn’t repeat itself!
Frank Viola as good as Rick Aguilera and/or Kevin Tapani ? Good luck with that!
Where is the daily confidence rating poll? I want to give the Mets a 10.
Mint! Let’s win one for the Gipper!
We will. We will. Johan’s signature will be a big win for the Gipper!
Regis, Viola is a bunghole on his good days. His Twins teammates were thrilled to see him traded as were his Mets teammates when he left the Mets. He also had a contentious relationship with the NY media. I take no stock in anything he says.
Gee I wonder if he thought the Twins received fair value when they traded him?
Viola’s numbers are somewhat similar to Santana’s prior to his trade to the Mets. Ironically, he was the same age as Santana when he came to the Mets. His numbers dropped off after the trade pretty drastically.
I hadn’t realized their ages, I hope that’s where the similarities end.
I was feeling snarky earlier today so I went to Beerleaguer and posted that “Johan Santana would be to the Mets what Steve Carlton was to the Phillies.” I was mostly kidding but hey a WS and 4 Cy Youngs would be alright. Hopefully closer to Carlton than Viola anyway.
Viola was never as good as Santana is today.
Santana has had 6 good seasons before coming here. Viola had 3.
You need to look again. There numbers are very comparable. Santana had five great seasons prior to coming to the Mets and Viola had four. I have followed Santana, so it’s subjective that I think Santana is better and will not decline, however, there are similarities.
Nobody can say now, whether the mets prospects were fair compensation. But I would give the twins (or the marlins/oakland) the benefit of the doubt. They became conteders by deals such as this one and compete by developing prospects
Waaaaaaa, that trade wasn’t fair. Waaaaaa!!!
any updates on possible righthanded outfield/1st basemen?
We need Kevin Mench as a OF/1B. He would be a perfect fit. He has the pop off the bench we need. But first lets sign Santana already!
Marlin Andersson, Jeff Conine, chavez
Conine retired. And last I looked, Marlon & Endy were lefties…
We gave up so much more (relatively and at the time) for Viola. Aguilera was established and got better, and Tapani had a great career. Plus West was a can’t miss ace (that missed).
Then again, we weren’t inking the biggest pitcher contract ever.
In other breaking baseball news I heard JORGE JULIO signed with the tribe.!!!
yes and Luis Gonzalez signed with the Marlins. I can feel the balance of power in the NL East slipping southward with that move.
….and Torii Hunter put up an OPS of .689 in his first full season as the Twins’ CF at age 23, hitting 9 homeruns in 135 games, numbers that Gomez should be fairly capable of duplicating this season, if given the chance.
I like Gomez, I just hope that this trade doesn’t result in Twins fans having unrealistic expectations for his performance in the short-term. If the Twins are patient with him, he could still become a special player..but he’s going to have to take his lumps in the process.
Oh, and Frank Viola is a tool.
Chico if the opinions of the commenters at Aarongleeman.com are any indication it appears that Twins fans will have plenty of patience with him. I know very little about the Twins system but multiple commenters there suggested someone named Pridie would keep CF warm for a while until Gomez is ready to pounce. They also seemed very enamored with Gomez’s defensive potential which indicated to me these people knew what they were talking about.
I for one was NEVER enamored with Frank Viola as a Met. As far as I am concerned, he was mediocre at best after the trade and was in a downward spiral. So Frank – shut your mouth! The Twins made out pretty good when you got traded. This time around, we’re the ones doing the fleecing! Enjoy it!
The Mets’ rotation has the potential to be utterly dominant in the NL.
Santana is the best pitcher in the game. Reports are that Pedro is healthy. The guy is a gamer. Maine and Perez were absolute studs the first half of the season, where they spent most of the season in the Top 10 in both ERA and SO. Their second halves were disappointing, but i think they will learn from it and will be better pitchers overall in ‘08. El duque was often times our best pitcher, so having him as our 5th is absolute gravy.
Mets Rotation:
1) Santana: Will feast upon the weak NL. A massacre indeed.
2) Perez: Ace type stuff, but inconsistent. Let’s hope he takes it to the next level.
3)Maine: Solid stuff. Still inexperienced (only 1.5 yrs as a full time starter), but has room to grow. Needs to improve stamina.
4)Pedro. Healthy. Still knows how to pitch. Still has the mentality of ace. Lets hope he can pitch like one.
5) El Duque- Makes people look silly with that curve ball he throws. Like Pedro, he knows to pitch. A good change of pace from the other flame throwers in the rotation. Will make an inevitable trip to the DL.
Spot starter) Pelfrey: Nasty fastball. Can start the year in AAA, refine his secondary stuff. Made improvements later in the year. Can be called up when Pedro and EL duque make their annual trip to.
of course we all know its gonna go down to the last hour
Agree with your asesment bro. My only thought is that we sign Livan Hernandez for 1 to 2 years as our fifth starter so he can guaranteed eat 200 innings. El Duque to the pen and Pelfrey to AAA. You can never have enough pitching depth and we do unfortunatly have injury concerns with some of our starters (Pedro, El Duque). Speaking of depth I will once again call for signing Kevin Mench. Alou WILL be hurt and who knows about Church full time. Delgado can possibly have a bad year or get hurt so Mench can fill many roles as he is versatile with great HR threat bat.
I tend to agree with you re: can’t have enough SP’s, especially with health concerns of Pedro and Duque. However, as I’ve posted before, it might not be necessary. Assume Santana, Maine, and Perez each start 32 games, which given last years performance they should. And Pedro and Duque start 24 games each, which is about what Pedro did in 06 and Duque did last year. This adds up to 144 games, leaving 18 games. Then Pelfrey should be able to start 12 games and Sosa 6 games.
I’d certainly be happy with those #s and we wouldn’t waste money and a roster spot with Livan. To me, adding Livan in the place of El Duque would mean he starts approx. 32 games, leaving 10 games for Pelfrey and Sosa. I think I’d like Pelfrey to build up his games started so he’s ready to hit the ground running in 09.
Yeah, I didn’t really want Livan at all, but after the Santana trade he makes a lot of sense for us.
Keith Law just came out with his top 100 prospects. Fernando Martinez is number 10 on the list, which includes some kids ahead of him that sniffed the majors last year(Bailey, Morales, Joba).
Here is what Law says about Martinez:
“It’s been fashionable this offseason for some writers to bash the Mets’ top prospects, mostly vis-à-vis the Johan Santana trade talks, but this criticism has been way overblown. Martinez’s 2007 performance doesn’t impress on a quick look, but consider these facts: He played the entire season at age 18 in AA; and he was hitting .309/.372/.409 as late as May 25 before the effects of a contusion on his left hand ruined what remained of his season. He was shut down on June 23 and missed the rest of the year. Martinez shows huge raw power in BP that will make its way into his game performances, and he has a solid approach with good pitch recognition for someone so young. He has good range in center and a plus arm if he outgrows center field and has to move to right. To put his development in more perspective, if he’d played a full year at AA and hit .290/.360/.410 or so, he would have been on pace to debut in the big leagues at 19 or 20 and be a big league regular before he turned 21. He’s going to be a star.”
How Minaya kept him is beyond comprehension. Omar for GM of the year.
It’s not out of the realm of possibility that Martinez is playing right field for us come September. It’s remote, but still possible.
Torii Hunter was up and down for two years (‘97 and ‘98) before he managed to stick with the club for the next two years in which his career totals looked like this: 14HR’s 81RBI’s with a .266BA
And that was before the 2001 season which was his breakthrough year, knocking in: 27HR’s 92RBI’s with a .261BA
Gomez I feel will easily excel what Hunter did in his first 4 years within 2 to 3 years. Mulvey will be a good #2 or #3… Humber can be a #4, #5 or reliever. Guerra if he develops the way he is being projected, he has the potential to be a #1 or #2 (think Felix Hernandez)
Just the fact that I am reading what Frank Viola has to say is evidence that I am going through Santana trade talk withdrawal. I am old enough to remember when Viola was traded and I do not ever remember him being labeled as the best picture in baseball. A great pitcher — sure. But never the best.
Twins fans need to realize that it will take a few years for them to really know if they got good value in the trade. The Mets fans on the other hand, will get the best of the trade for this season.
Well, if the deal finally gets signed, we can go back to what we would normally be doing this time of year.
300 post threads arguing about who should be the last man onthe bench or garbage time out of the pen!
True that prospect trades have to be looked at years later. Think Perzyinsk (well, that one didn’t take years!).
SMith obviously thought he was getting value. And Gomez could be a bust, or he could be Beltran in a few years. Humber could still end up being Mussina (when he was good!)
It is a crap shoot, but all 4 of htese guys have legitimate ML level talent (Guerra of course is just projections).
How bad can a trade be when you ship out a guy on his last year (a true lame duck) that you are guaranteed to lose anyway, and you get back 4 guys, 3 of whom could realistically be on an opening day roster, and the 4th is considered to have the potential to be an ace down the road?
I am happy about the deal, because it didn’t gut the farm excessively, and shouldn’t hurt their chances of being dominant in 2009++ And it could still end up being a wash, or tilting in the Twins favor.
Hopefully it is a win-win. Santana pitches like a cy young winner for the next 3-4 years and takes the Mets to the WS a couple of times, and the prospects all end up being valuable players for the Twins.
Once they are gone, no reason to wigh them ill will.
I thought you were against this trade stickguy? I agree that the 4 we gave up made the deal easier to swallow. We did give our 2,3,4,and 7th ranked prospects so the Twins fans cant really bitch. We kept F-Mart so thats the main thing. Pelfrey as well was big for me.
I’ve heard some opinion that when these prospects become part of the Twins system, none of them will be in their new top 10 for what that’s worth.
not true, in fact, in today’s prospect list by Keith Law on espn today, Gomez was #1 for the Twins, Geurra #2 I think, and Humber #5. NO ONE has said they wouldn’t be in their top 10, and if they did, it was probably Mike and the Maddog, so shame on you for believing it.
Ok, can someone please tell sweet music that the twins were faced with the following decision:
1) Lose JS to FA and get two draft picks, or
2) Take the four prospects from the Mets
That’s it.
The Yanks and Sox weren’t interested and the rest of the league couldn’t afford the extension.
The other thing is people need to start valuing players with respect to not only their talent, but also the time left on their contracts and what level the next contract is likely to be set. JS had one year left. A JS with six years left is more valuable than a JS with one year left, period.
Think of it this way (and remember that the Twins are known to be good talent evaluaters)
This is now a very young, but very talented, team. They will also likely have some growing pains for a couple of years.
But, they could easily retool and own the division again by 2010. Detroit is old, so they might dominate for 1-2 years, but when the wheels come off, they could drop fast.
Who knows if Cleveland can remain good for another 3 years.
So, it is entirely possible that by 2010, the Indians and Tigers could be on the decline (natural baseball cycle), and the Twins (maybe even the Royals!) could be lead dogs in that division!
Oh, and I really want a Martinez to be the real deal. If he didn’t go in this deal, I can’t imagine he would be traded for anything.
So Viola wants to know if this was “the best Bill [Smith] could’ve done under the circumstances.”
Well, the Yankees weren’t happening; Bosox weren’t happening. So Smith’s choice was Gomez, Guerra, Mulvey & Humber on the one hand vs. 2 draft picks on the other.
Hmmm, tough call there, Frank, wouldn’t you say?
Philly has a better offense than the Mets and they added a possible closer in lidge.
Thsi will NOT be easy.
the braves look like the big loser in the off-season.
losing Jones and Edgar cannot be seen as a plus.
oh boy, a closer. eric gagne, in his most dominant years, was worth about 3 wins to the dodgers.
as much as I like to trash Lidge, his numbers (in a VERY small sample) at the Phillies home park are lights out, so my hope that he would get lit up pitching there may not pan out.
It could be worse Viola could be a scum bag Yankee fan I would rather see a twins fan than a Yankee, Phillies, or Braves!
Who cares what Viola days. He had one good year as a met. I remember back in high school in florida we played his son’s team in florida. One of my friends ask for him autograph when he got it. We took it and hit fungos with it in front of him. So I really don’t care what he says.
hey wat does anybody think about trading for willie mo pena??? he’d come cheap. he has amazing power but has some things to polish off. he was one of top top prospects on the reds and was traded to the red sox for bronson arroyo.There was alot of hype when he hit those rockets but out of nowhere trot nixon was gone and it looked like a sure thing for the starting job but they signed j.d. drew so the nationals got him for practicly nothing mid season. i think we could get him cheap and he kills lefties. Plays good corner defense w/ a great arm. perfect for platoon w/ church , take over for alou in left for days off and oviously for the few weeks hurt. may even be able to learn 1st in spring training for delgato purposes.
What would we have to give up though?
Can you imagine if someone offered you 5 years 140 mill
frank viola signed my cast when i broke my wrist and couldnt play little league in 1991. he obviously knows everything about making trades.
first he wanted his total 6 years 150 and now he wants 170. thats just greed i say let the man walk!
I think we are being a bit unfair to Viola. He came up with the Twins at age 22 and pitched for them for 8 years. He also won the world series MVP in 1987 with them. I can totally understand why he feels a connection to the Twins — I know how much connection I feel to the ‘86 mets and I was only a kid watching them on TV.
Also, we all agree that his salary demands aside, the prospects we gave up for the best pitcher in baseball are very reasonable. If we like it so much from the Mets side, then as a Twins fan, I would have to be quite unhappy with this trade.
Lets Go Mets Go!
We all wish there was news to report…
Is this some real talk?
Anyways, if this deal were to some how fall apart I will be promptly drinking myself into a gutter this weekend. That or go to Shea and hold Mr.Met captive at gunpoint and demand a deal be made……or else!!!!
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