…i don’t want the Mets, nor their fans, to forget the pain and shock of last season’s ending…i think there is a great lesson to be learned, on all ends…however, we can’t dwell on it either and we all must move forward…
…that said, the acquisition of Johan Santana does more than just bring the Mets a great pitcher, it changes the topic of conversation among us, the media and the players when spring training begins in a few weeks…
…sure, the Mets will still get hit with a ton of questions about ‘The Collapse,’ as they should, but this acquisition allows every one involved to then shift the discussion towards a much happier topic, including us…it gives us all an excuse to look forward, not back…
{ 189 comments }
If the Mets hadn’t been able to pull off the trade? I would have been pretty blase about it…I’d still go to my games and follow the team every night, but with little to no expectations.
If the Mets pulled off the trade but blew the negotations? I probably would have started burning my jerseys.
If the Mets didn’t pull off that Johan trade I would have settled for nothing less than a Championship to get my mind off the collapse of ‘07. Please keep in mind we are talking about one of the biggest choke jobs in the history of baseball. Omar made the move he had to move in order to keep Mets fans pacified enterring the ‘08 season
Had the Yankees stayed at the table and seriously outbid us for Santana I would not have faulted Omar for not bringing us Johan. Anything more than what we ended up giving up would have hurt our system, but I felt that this was a great deal.
But had that happened (and unfortunately it didn’t) I would’ve considered Livan Hernandez a desperation move and a pathetic attempt to “throw us a bone.” Kyle Lohse would’ve been better, I would have seen that as “at least he is doing his best to keep us in the race.”
But now I feel that he has given us some fighting spirit.
Dump Ryan Church. We can do better in right field!
Thats how I feel as well. If I knew they tried everything possible to get Johan but the Twins just didnt want our best offer then I couldnt hold it against Omar and the Mets. However once the deal was made I felt there would be no excuse to let Johan slip away no matter how much money it took to sign him. The fact that they have said it came close to falling apart puts a shaky feeling in my stomach. Thankfully they comprimised and he is now a Met. If we didnt get him I would have liked to see them sign Livan Hernandez but not Kyle Loshe. Loshe is terrible and not that Livan is great but he at least is a guaranteed 200 innings eater. I still think they should sign Livan for the 5 hole. Lets Go Mets!
Had the Mets not made a big splash, I would have felt like I did before the 2007 season. There wasn’t any new excitement, complacency was felt from the beginning, and that same feeling would have been there at the start of this season and I would not have felt as comfortable.
Trading for Johan Santana has given not only the Mets players but the Mets community to feel the buzz and excitement it felt before and throughout the 2006 season.
This trade was more then just a trade. It was a trade for the moral and overall psyche of the team and the Mets fan base. It has given the team excitement and passion, something that would have lacked if they settled for Hernandez or Lohse. It was more then a trade for a pitcher, it was a trade for so many more reasons.
I think if there would be no trade, Omar would come out and say, “We would like to move forward with our up and coming pitchers, test them, work them into the major league roster and provide them the opportunity to succeed as opposed to trading away all our talent. We will re-evaluate our position midway through the season and make a determination on our club’s progress and address any open needs at the time.”
While a lot of people would be upset and disappointed that a deal for a front line guy was not made, I think we would generally welcome the idea of giving the young guys a shot. Lohse would certainly be a mistake. I could see Livan in the rotation as a back up plan. Obvoiusly, you can’t beat getting the best pitcher in the majors – so asking to speculate on “what would have been” is hard. How do you feel about not having the best pitcher in the majors? Why don’t we ask the Twins fans? There could be no substitute for a Santana – hence the reason why we got him, right? If the Mets don’t sign Santana, they revert to being the middle-of-the-pack team, a not horrible, yet a non-contender when it comes to playoff talk. How does any fan feel when he knows the chances of his team hitting the playoffs are slim? Barring the emergence of some of the young guys as perennial all stars, it would be a long and wasted season with a lot of disappointment. Santana brings more certainty than hope to our club’s future, and without him my ticket plan is still unpurchased.
If I felt there was no sincere attempt to get Santana, then yes, I would of been upset. Santana is not just some ordinary pitcher. He is a team changer, an ace that the mets have not had since Gooden. He is the type of pitcher that will feast on the weaker line ups in the national league. In the american league, you can find teams that had all-stars batting 8th or 9th, obviously it is not like that in the NL where the pitchers spot is always due up……Bottom Line, Santana makes the mets better, maes us forget about the disasterous ending of last year and paves the way for some good years ahead this year and next year in the new ball park….
SUICIDE
Hernandez and Lohse were not plans B & C. They may have been plans G & H. Santana not only physically changes the make up of the team, it changes the perception of the team. No matter what the Phillies & Braves, and for that matter some Mets, are saying, the Mets are now clearly THE favorite in the NL. Yes, they still have to play the games, but the Mets can now bring a gun to the fistfight. They have not been able to do that for a very long time. As we all found out in 2006, to have an ace or stopper in a short playoff series is priceless.
WE GOT JOHAN….. nuff said
check me out on youtube
http://www.youtube.com/natesbury126
Brining anybody in no named Johan Santana (or i suppose Erik Bedard) would have done nothing to shift my mood or overall feeling about the club, which before the Santana trade was a complete lack of faith.
Livan Hernandez, Kyle Loshe- had they settled for either of them I would have gone into this season the same way I came out of last season.
Frustrated, disappointed and hopeless.
Seems to me I could have chosen two of the options, even with Johan:
It still hurts and I am TRYING to forget it going into 2008 but, also, since it still hurts, it truly will take a WS championship to erase it.
Without Johan, …same answer. It just makes “erasure” more likely.
If the Mets had to settle for a second tier starter, I would have struggled on three fronts:
1) I needed a big story to capture my interest, and bring me a positive vibe about this team that left me so depressed last year.
2) This team needed an ace to be competitive, and after last year, I had no interest in watching a third place team finish .500.
3) Mets had to prove that last year was unacceptable. They needed to make a splash not just to excite the fans (see #1), but to put their money where their mouth is and show that they are committed to doing what they must to win.
I would have still been OK, but my confidence rating would have come down to a 5 from a 9…..
If we didn’t pull off anything big, I still would think we had a great team to sport in 2008 with a chance to win the division and advance in the playoffs. The Mets have more all star caliber players than most clubs.
My expectations would have been a wild race between the mets, phils, and braves in 2008 with the mets winning in the end.
I agree with your evaluation of the rest of the team; even with the monumental collapse the Phils great surge ended in a one game lead (thanks again Tommy G.) However, the weakness in the rotation was potentially crippling and a long-term treatment of Johan is like needing glasses and getting a new set of eyes.
I would have not been happy about it at all. It was completely necessary for them to land Johan, not only because on the field he is exactly what they need but also for what he does to the morale of the team, organization, and fans. It cant be overemphasized how important this sign and trade was for this upcoming season especially while the collapse was still on everyone’s mind.
I still would not have a real good feeling if Santana had not been obtained going into next season. There are still a couple of players on the team that I don’t believe give it their all day in and day out.Two of the met players I always see a smile on their face after the game win or lose.I think and hope that the more people we get on this team that have good team spirit will force the two players I’m talking about to play harder all the time.
If we never made the trade, I would probably have convinced myself that our prospects were going to grow up into very important and dominating players… Until about 2010.
I would have bought the mlb.tv pass for 2008, but my confidence would be way down. And I’d hate living my last semester of school near a bunch of revved up Phillies fans.
As it is right now, I’m getting a ton of congratulations from Yankees fans. A lot of them told me “No effing way the Mets have a chance for Johan” when I mentioned it in December. Now they’re sucking up cause they know they were wrong.
The Phillies fans in the area aren’t commenting too much yet. We’ll just have to wait until the first Mets-Phillies series to get some heated discussions!
had this trade not been completed i would have been disappointed. it would have been nice to keep some of those prospects, but johan is what we needed now. i know its been said many times already, but this acquisition has changed this team from a contender to a favorite.
if we had settled for livan or lohse we would have had a very mediocre rotation, and the offense would be needed to have a spectacular season to give us a shot at a division title.
It would have been tough watching Livan Hernandez all the while wishing we could have made a deal for Johan. I would probably have been looking forward to Pelfrey’s emergence as the fifth starter. But thanks to Omar and the Mets we don’t have to worry about that. Our dream offseason move has finally come to fruition and now we bask in the glow of optimism and put the collapse behind us.
Richie
New York, NY
You can’t win ANYTHING in January, only in September/October…
If you are able to completely forget the worst month in the history of the franchise, and all that went with it then good for you. I love Johan. I love the fact that we now have Johan. I love the fact that we all have legitimite hopes going into 2008. But the bottom line is that no matter what acquisitions the Mets make, no matter what happens henceforth 2007 DID happen. Its part of our history whether we like it or not. Now the question is what are they gonna do to redeem themselves. Just remember, those who dont learn from history are doomed to repeat it….
I guess I kinda didnt answer the question. I would have taken 2008 day by day, hoping for the best but expecting the worst. Now…..NOW…..I expect a championship…..nothing else will wash away the awful taste I’ll aways have when I think of 2007. I think its pretty incredible that after ‘The Collapse’ and specifically the way it ended with the team getting booed off the field, that come Opening Day the excitement will be tangible…..We have hope, and in Feburary thats all I can ask for…..
make the best of it. if they couldn’t swing a deal for santana or a bedard, it wasn’t becuase they refused (like the yankees).
this is also about having a team that is highly competitive year after year, which we never have had except ‘69-73 and ‘85-88. our ny obsession with “going for it” can do more damage because you never know how things will break in october.
Without Santana, I was dreading the upcoming season. I would have had low expectations — and the “collapse” would be thrown in our faces (by the media) all season long.
I expected that if the Mets were leading in September, all you’d hear about was last year’s collapse — and how they were going to blow it again…
Santana changes all of that. Now, if they’re leading in September, I expect the media spin will be “look at what a difference Santana made… he helped them turn the page, and regain their confidence, etc.”
It changes the outlook of not only the team, but for the fans and the media as well.
My reaction would have been completely different. I would have waited until the first Yankee series before I really focused on the team and avoided the early season coverage.
if they didn’t pick up Santana, i still think they would have had a pretty good year. what i don’t understand is why people automatically assume this team is terrible just because of the collapse. yes, it was an awful time for the team to go into a rut, and i think it was mostly the burnt out pitching staff that caused it. that being said, this has been a pretty solid club for the last two years. why, all of a sudden, is it a 4th place team just because they don’t pick up a marquis pitcher?? they did it with the guys they had the last two years and i was on board to try it again….
of course, we don’t have to worry about that now and Santana will help in so many areas. but even without him they are a good team that had an extremely painful ending to a season. nothing more dramatic than that….
I love the mets, but it would have been:
“When does Citi Field Open?”
I would still be a hardcore fan and supporter had we not made the trade for Santana. But I would need to see the Mets put forth great effort next season to erase the stain of last year’s collapse. That isn’t to say that they would have to win the NL East or make it to the playoffs or the World Series. But I would need to feel confident that the team, coaching staff, and front office did all they could in the off-season and during the season to make it up to the fans. And I would hope that we could make a splash by signing Sabathia or another front-line starter next off-season.
Before Santana surfaced as a realistic possibility, I was already very optimistic. We lost by jus one game last year. That was with NO Pedro, a beat-up bullpen, a career-low season from Delgado, and a Jose Reyes who ran out of either gas of attitude by the end of the season. With Pedro back, a repeat season from Maine & Perez, Delgado putting up even slightly better numbers, and & an acquisition like Lohse or Hernandez, I was already expecting to win the NL East. Santana outs those expectations into the stratosphere.
Phil S.
Carle Place, NY
I would not have nearly as confident nor would I be looking forward to this coming season if the Mets had settled for either Lohse or Hernandez. I’m more than ecstatic now that we have Santana although I am going to miss the youthful energy and speed of Gomez. If it brings a championship, it won’t matter one bit.
Ever see The Fan with DeNiro? That would have been me and Carlos Delgado…
J/K…i’ll say this about what i was thinking going into this time last week…I wasnt even looking at the ticket packets…the invoice for me to renew my tix were shredded and not even opened…And i was kinda hoping that if they signed anyone off of the trash heap it would have been Hernandez (still want him)…but safe to say i had no faith in what was going to take place.
Now i feel like Susyn Waldman..Oh My…OH MY GOODNESS GRACIOUS!!!!
Too funny with the Waldman reference…
LMAO @ suzyn waldman
Honestly, even before the Mets got Santana, I had already moved beyond the September failures. The 2006 NLCS was much more painful.
Even if the Mets had not gotten Santana this winter,, I would not have dwelt on the past the way many fans here do. Time to move beyond last September, with or without Santana.
I’m from NYC, but go to school in boston, so while I watched 80% of the regular season games over the summer, I didn’t catch every game of the collapse at the end of september. And I was in Boston so I didn’t have to deal with the coverage everywhere (although I did have to avoid this site and espn.com for about 2 weeks). Yes, it was depressing (I watched the last 3 games of the collapse), but it was a slow and drawn out collapse.
I was much more devastated by the loss to the Cards two years ago in Game 7. I don’t think I’ll ever forget that game. I still think we should have won. After the Endy catch I was going nuts, as everyone was, and then to lose it off of homerun-heilman was just like a huge punch in the face, the gut, and the balls, all at once.
so yes, the collapse last season was excruciating, and above all, embarassing. but the game 7 loss will probably stick with me for longer.
After the whole collapse, I thought that the Mets were doomed, but after being rather unimpressed with the offseasons of the Phillies and Atlanta, I felt that the Mets had a great chance at taking the division (assuming they signed a second-tier FA). Even without the Johan signing, I think that the Mets were going to have a pretty good year-
a) They got rid of that cancer in the bullpen (Mota)
b) Made a few good acquisitions in the ‘pen
c) They would have Pedro from the beginning of the season
d) OP and Maine would be a year more experienced
e) Delgado would have a halfway-decent season (if he ever wants to be signed to a respectable contract)
There are probably a few more reasons as to why I believe that the Mets weren’t doomed for a lackluster season, if they were to NOT sign Johan. All in all, the Johan signing makes the Mets a formidable force in the NL and i’m anticipating a GREAT season.
I don’t get it, what lesson do you see in the collapse? Don’t collapse? Don’t take anything for granted? We’re Mets fans, we don’t take anything for granted.
Here’s the lesson I want to learn — I want to learn what is the maximum number of World Series rings that will fit on David Wright’s and Jose Reyes’s hands.
I would have low expectations for this season if we had acquired either Livan or Kyle instead of Johan.
Andre from the Y O
The acquisition of Johan changes hope into eager anticipation with a hint of expectation.
Russ
Washington, DC
I would not have been as happy to sign Livan or Lohse, for the simple fact they weren’t going to help the team any more than Mike Pelfrey would have. Luckily, management and ownership was able to pull of the Santana trade, which demonstrates a willingness and desire for this team to not only be competitive, which it probably would have been anyway, but to address the fan’s concerns about the overall future direction of our beloved Mets.
Here’s to a brighter 2008 and beyond.
If Santana was not implanted into this rotation, the whole “Collapse” would still be fresh in my mind. Pitchers like Livan Hernandez and Kyle Lohse are not names other teams fear. They are exactly that, “settling” for the “best” of the free-agent class with someone who can eat innings and is at least at the major league level. And honestly, if it came down to acquiring one of those two picthers and not Santana, Mets fans would be nervously entering Spring Training with our tails between our legs. Mr. Met’s smile would start to fade and Cow-bell Man’s bell would be non-inspiring. This move not only alleviates the minds of Mets fans from those aweful days in Septemeber of ‘07, but it gives us that booster shot that we haven’t had since the ‘06 season.
I disagree with the above poster…The collapse was way more painful than game 7…i wanted to cry but was more angry when we lost that game ( i was there)…but sitting in Shea for every single game that last week of the collapse last season, and watching that misery go down live…was gut wrenching…and after Maine willed us back to have a chance for Glavine (can i even say his name here without being attacked?…Sorry) to stink the joint i wanted to curl up and just wake up in 09…bc 08 would have been too painful…
I have to say that the Patriots taking that ‘L’ last night sure makes the Collpase a little more palatable though…now Simmons and friends see how it feels…
The collapse was not more painful than Game 7. We were meant to win that series. You can’t seriously say that a slow deterioration of the ‘07 team was more painful to watch than the abrupt and deflating end to the ‘06 season. ’06’s team captured the rebirth of excitement at Shea, something that had been gone for a long time. To see that team eliminated by a clearly inferior team was one of the most disappointing things I have ever seen. And that team could have made pretty easy work of the Tigers, I believe. Last year, I think we would have gotten demolished by Boston.
The people making the biggest deal of “the collapse” are right here among us. ‘07 is over. We didn’t win the World Series. It doesn’t really matter how we didn’t win the World Series. We just didn’t. Move on. Different year, different team.
If we had signed a guy like Livan or Kyle Lohse I wouldn’t have been ecstatic but would not have been disappointed either. I think Livan and El Duque would be great together and would have loved to see that. If we got Livan on a 1-year deal I would have been fine with that. If we got Kyle Lohse on a 2 or 3 year deal I would not have been happy. Either way, I would feel unsure about the upcoming season and this deal just makes me and everyone feel THAT much better…much, much, better.
you guys do all realize that the GMEN JUST WON THE PHUKING SUPER BOWL!!!!!!!!……………right?
wrong blog, danny boy
If the Mets hadn’t been able to bring in Santana, my enthusiasm going into the season would have been much less than it is now.
However, despite the collapse, this was still a very good team, and they had the offense to make them a contender. Maine and Perez both proved to be very good last year, and I would have taken solace in the fact that it was very likely they would both be better this year.
Santana does instantly make this team a top-tier club, but had he not been signed there’s no doubt in my mind that the Mets would have still been a contender.
Of course, its a lot easier to convince myself of that with Santana leading the rotation.
between the steroids & the Mets ineptness, i was going to use 2008 to try & stay away from baseball as much as possible. This would not have been easy, considering I have played & watched the game my whole life, but alas I was disgusted on many levels.
But, with that being said & Johan in the Mets fold I am ready for a new year. I still will not give MLB as much money as I have given in years past. I would like to see one more World Series win, preferably this year.
I still believe that this game has more cheaters then non-cheaters. regardless what D. Wright says or Bud Selig. It is more fact then fiction.
I would not have been as happy to sign Livan or Lohse, for the simple fact they weren’t going to help the team any more than Mike Pelfrey would have. Luckily, management and ownership was able to pull of the Santana trade, which demonstrates a willingness and desire for this team to not only be competitive, which it probably would have been anyway, but to address the fan’s concerns about the overall future direction of our beloved Mets.
Here’s to a brighter 2008 and beyond.
…Harold in Albany, NY
If the Mets had gotten Lohse or Livan rather than Johan, I would have still rooted for the team, but I would always wonder in the back of my mind about what could have been. Much like I wonder how the team would have been with A-Rod or Vlad. This signing doesn’t completely erase last September, but at least we move forward with more hope and optimism with Johan, and the knowledge that the front office and ownership is being proactive in doing what it can to bring a championship to Queens.
Lohse or Hernandez? “Same old crap,” I would’ve thought. Better they should give Pelfrey or Humber a season-long shot.
If you view the collapse as an aberration, you see the Mets were by far the best team in the division last year – 7 games up with 17 to play is pretty good, even though they had been looking kind of shaky at that point.
Even without Santana, I was expecting the Mets to have a good season. Losing Glavine, but getting a healthy Pedro is an improvement, Perez and Maine can build off good seasons, Degado can rebound, and we still have stars like Beltran, Reyes and Wright.
With Santana, we should dominate.
If the Mets had not traded for Johan and had to sign a Livan or Lohse type I would not be as optomistic as I currently am about 2008, that being said I would still feel that we fielded a good team, comparable to 2007 where we were a Jose Reyes slump away from the playoffs.
To me you can bring in 24 other all-stars on this team or 24 AAA guys and after game 162 the Mets record will be comparable to Reyes’ production, he is the make or break of this team, how many RBI-less doubles did DWright hit in August??
Too many to count, it seemed the bases were always empty for the Mets big boppers. A ton of solo shots that didn’t mean much but I believe it was injuries, the worn down bullpen and the starters not going deep into games that caused the collapse. It was just one thing after another and I believe then the Mets started pressing.
For me, if the Mets signed Kyle Lohse or Livan Hernandez, I would of been slightly mum about the whole thing about my feelings for the Mets. I would remain cautiously optimistic because while Livan would give you innings it doesn’t mean it’s all going to be good innings.
I’m not a fan that panics alot, however, once the Mets made the trade for Johan Santana I think took a few years off my life. lol Once the Twins accepted the Mets offer and allowed a 72 hour window for the Mets and Johan’s agent went down, it was the longest 72 hours of my life but well worth it in the end.
I’m not worried what the media would do even if the Mets didn’t trade for Johan Santana, while the collapse is well documented and will get thrown in the Mets and Met fans faces, it just wouldn’t bother me as much as it would another fan.
But none of us have to worry about any of that because the Mets did show they are going to give the Mets a better chance to win and while getting Johan Santana is no lock for the playoffs, it does increase the Mets chance of reaching it over not having a Johan Santana to anchor the top of the starting rotation.
I think this trade gives alot of people confidence or more confidence than they would have without Santana. Fans, management, the players, etc. I can’t wait for the Johan Santana press coference.
Personally, I would have been very down on the Mets if they had not signed Santana, and countered with a Lohse or Hernandez. I would have rathered have chalked 2008 out and have loved to see how young kids like Milledge, Gomez, Mulvey, Humber have panned out. However, the Santana trade was a franchise changer, and turns a bleak 2008 into a one where there is hope of bringing home a title.
I would have approached 2008 with a combination of hope and dread. Of course I would have rooted for the Mets as hard as possible—but, I have to admit, without a lot of optimism.
Omar Minaya is the MVP of 2008 so far!
I think that the Mets would still feel the effects of the collapse this season without the pick up of Santana, as well as their improved defensive situation behind the plate. Last night with the Patriots was a great reminder of what can happen to a team when they think they have already won, which happened to the Mets last season. I hope that the Mets aren’t thinking like their fans are. They haven’t proved anything yet. Plaxico Burris and Jimmy Rollins put it perfectly when they guaranteed victory despite the odds. The Mets may be the favorite with their new addition, but favorites don’t always win. Hopefully, it just doesn’t rub off.
I’ve been a Mets fan since I was a kid, early 80’s. Last season was tough to take, but even great teams unexpectedly fall: ‘08 Patriots. I’m a big believer of get back on the horse. I’m not saying that acquiring Santana isn’t a great move, because it is. I still would have been behind this team without him though. I’m looking forward to a great season.
I would have been extremely upset and think that we would have been the 2nd best in the division behind the phillies, as we are now. But eventually i think we have the talent to beat them this year. Without santana, i was not confident
Signing either of those guys would have made me even more angry/bitter than I was after the collapse. Both would have been a huge wastes of money…especially for a 3 year deal. Lohse has done nothing at the major league level and Livan’s numbers have progressively gotten worse in each of the last 4 seasons. I would have rather seen Pelfrey, Humber, and Mulvey battle it out for the 5th spot if we could not get Johan.
In all honesty, I would have started to mentally prepare myself for a 3rd place finish in the NL East. I’ll always be loyal to the Mets, and even if the Mets hadn’t signed Santana I would’ve still rooted for the team, but I would’ve had a very tough time supporting the Wilpons in the future. This move gives me confidence in the management, ownership, and overall direction of the Mets.
Jeremy K
Ann Arbor, MI
Until they play the games we won’t know. If the mets do well, the collapse is forgotten. If they don’t do well, there will be lots of “Is the collapse still effecting them…”. This would be true with or without Santana. Santana helps to change the subject during spring training when they’re not playing any games and also increases the Met’s chances of playing well once the season starts thus erasing the questions. But, if they screw up, the questions will be back, at least for this season.
I would have still felt that the Mets had a decent chance to make the playoffs, but it would have been a close race with Atlanta and Philadelphia. Without Santana, the players who were there in 2007 would have had to really suck it up and develop some killer instinct.
My lack of confidence in Willie Randolph makes it hard to say that they would have come out on top without Santana. Of course, no player guarantees anything, and they still have to prove they are the best team on the field.
Without much anticipation, I would have watched every game like I always do but I probably would break more remote controls.
The Plan B scenarios did not impress me a bit but it was all that is left out there if Santana did not work out. The Mets would need to make up 200 innings somehow.
This is the highest impact trade the Mets have made since their acquisition of Mike Piazza. It is perhaps of even greater importance, as the Mets have shifted the balance of power in their division significantly.
Look at what happened when the D-backs added Curt Schilling and Randy Johnson.
Look also at what happened when the Red Sox added Schilling, and later Daiske and Becket.
Simply put, front line ace pitchers win divisions, and they win championships.
The Mets pulled off a coup with this trade. If Santana remains healthy and dominant, the Mets will be well positioned to compete for the World Series for the next 3-4 seasons.
Seriously, I was not sure if I was even going to be able to watch the Mets this year. Last season ended so horribly, I thought I might just back away from baseball for at least the beginning part of the year, knowing I’d get pulled back in if they started doing well. Now my head is back in it.
If the Mets hadn’t acquired Santana – ie if the trade had fallen through or some other team had gotten him or something – I would not be able to get over the sting anytime soon.
How would I have reacted? Venom…pure venom.
I don’t like polls that put too many words in my mouth — ends up being a compound question. I don’t know that I fit neatly into any of those categories, and I’m guessing I’m not alone. My view is that the Mets can eradicate memories of ‘07 by playing good, fundamental baseball and playing with heart, but that those who forget the past are . . . well, you get the picture. The Mets should have plenty of bulletin board material when the likes of Olney and Stark get around to previewing the season. Such previews inevitably refer to the collapse of the year before, and already commentators are suggesting that the Mets can’t compete with the Phillies’ “heart.” If I’m a Met, that makes my blood boil. Anyway, there’s reason for optimism, but no reason to forget — no reason to forget that you can’t take anything for granted, no matter how big a lead you build or how far behind you fall.
And oh yeah — had the Mets not acquired a top starter, I would have been disappointed, but trusted that the right deal might not have been there. What if the Yankees had decided to offer Hughes? Sometimes the chips fall right, and sometimes they don’t.
I still would have been positive because I liked the fact the Mets had young pitchers (Mulvey, Humber, Pelfrey) that may have been close to contributing. However, having acquired Santana for the package they gave up raises the expectations to a new level.
I would have handled it. The Mets had a good team last year even though several players were injured and/or underperformed. Even without the acquisition of Santana, I would have expected the Mets to both score more runs in 2008 as well giving up less.
With the competition (from Boston & the Yanks) & the rumored boatload of prospects (including both Gomez & FMart), I didn’t expect that we’d land Santana.
So, my plan would have been:
1) Livan for 1 year only
2) Trade from same pool of prospects to get Blanton or someone of that ilk.
3) Continue to develop Pelfrey/Humber/Mulvey with the option of Heilman if they all fail
4) Load up on relievers which would give us a competitive pool to draw from, trade fodder, & opportunity to free up Heilman for trade or rotation
I would not be held up by Lohse (4 yrs $10 mil+). For every Meche, there’s a Jared Wright/Carl Pavano.
Now, the only tweaking I would do is to get a RH hitting 1B to spell Delgado/PH off the bench.
We have too many bench players that are infielders (Marlon, Easley, Gotay, potentially Valentin and A-Hern). Need to carry Pagan instead of Easley or trade Gotay.
I would have been disappointed, but optimistic that adding another veteran pitcher at the end of the rotation would help. I’m not sure if it would have been enough for the Mets to overtake the Phillies though,.
If the Mets had to settle for Hernandez or Lohse instead of Santana, I wouldn’t have been too surprised. We were a long-shot to get Santana, but as more and more time went on, I started getting more and more confident that we would get him. While it ends up well, I know I would have been devastated if we had gotten to the point of almost having and losing him for financial reasons.
Now that we have the ace we have been waiting years for, Bring on 2008.
I voted for “what collapse? What done is done” And I would have voted the same way if they hadn’t gotten Santana.
Sure, last year’s finish was a disappointment, but it is just a baseball season. And every year, you start fresh.
I also think that fans (well, the more devoted ones you find posting here!) are much more fixated on the “collapse” then the team (players) are. Sure, the returning ones (about 75% of the team) wanted to go to the post season, but not making it isn’t going to cause them to jump off a bridge.
That, and they will perform in 2008 most likely to the level of their talent. Same as every other year. A bad finish doesn’t mean they will have a bad next year. Same can be said for a strong finish not carrying over.
Anyone remember the year they won a bunch of games (7 in a row? something like that) to avoid 100 losses? Did that carry over to a big next year?
Anyway, my expectations and excitement level for 2008 are solely based on the players on the team, and what I think they can accomplish, in 2008. I would feel the same way if they had made the playoffs last year.
it depends on how we didn’t get him. if we made the trade and didn’t anty up the bucks i would have thought quite seriously about not renewing my season tickets. after the 20% increase in my tickets that would have been too much to bear. if we were just outbid by either bosten or the yankees i would have to just grin and bear it and hope that out of pelfry hernandez humber and mulvey we got a decent 4th and 5th starters. ive lived through all the historic bad trades weve made and i’m still here so i would have just hoped that the non trade for santana would some how work out for the best. and to actually answer your question its almost spring and to be a mets fan and stay somewhat sane u have to learn to forget. and thats what i would have done. but anyhow thank god we got santana and this all means zip.
That would have been a disaster! First of all, the amount of time that they seem to have occupied this off-season in pursuing Santana would have been a awful in regard to other moves the Mets could’ve or should’ve made but due to their Santana focus, they did not pursue the other opportunities.
Last year is last year. The Santana signing definitely has instilled an excitement and antipication for the upcoming season, though. I definitely wasn’t looking forward to the season with the trade looming over the offseason. To me, the biggest story would not have been the “collapse,” but rather the failure to improve the team enough in the offseason.
Now, it’s just bring it on!
I would have still watched the team every day, and gone to some games, but with lower expectations, and I would have been less excited about the season.
The Santana trade makes things much better, but I am still apprehensive about some of the issues that caused the colapse, including the bullpen, Jose Reyes’ ability to bounce back, Carlos Delgado’s ability at this point in time, and most importantly, the overall mental soundness and hunger of the team.
Anything less then the acquisition of an “ace” pitcher would have been a dissapointment . If they went ahead and acquired a fallback option like a Kyle Lohse or a Livan Hernandez, it would have been remniscent of prior acquisitions like Steve Traschel and Kevin Appier after losing out on Mike Hampton. It would have felt like the mets were telling the fan base with a shrug of the shoulders: “Hey we tried…”, which gets annoying after losing out on reeling in the big fish over and over and over again which had been the mets M.O. However, it seems since omar and willy took over, it seems like the mets are going for the gusto now. it’s been a a long time coming…
Nice…a Kevin Appier reference. I think that was the same year that Mussina was also a free agent. How about when Giambi was a free agent and we got Mo Vaughn instead or when Damon was a free agent and we ended up with Roger Cedeno? The list is endless. The Mets always seemed to end up with plan B until Omar arrived. I don’t think he gets enough credit.
It didn’t need to be Santana, but it needed to be a front line true #1 pitcher otherwise I would have been disappointed. Being Johann Sanatana is just icing on the cake. I am also just as happy to see Glavine leave, I know you didn’t ask that but….
i agree with a previous post. I would have been happy with a Ben Sheets type or a Bedard, or a Peavy or even Kurt Schilling, somebody who resembled an “ace”. Trading for Santana actually exceeded my expectations, so kudos to the mets for finally catching the big fish.
My answer today is different from the answer I would have given yesterday prior to the Giants winning the Super Bowl. I want the Mets to do well, but I have to admit I’m no longer the fan I once was, and I’ve been I fan since I received a Seaver jersey for my birthday back in 69. Yesterday’s win by the Giants was sweet on so many levels, and in so many ways. The majority of critical plays were made by marginal players, known only to Giant fans. This is the importance of homegrown talent, of rookies, of being a team. The Mets have become the Yankees of the NL, a collection of parts that is clueless about what it means to be a team. It’s the potential of players like Milledge, Gomez and the many others that have been traded away to bring an organization together and play as a team. The failure of Milledge in NY and his being traded away is the failure of an entire organization, players and fans. Unfortunately, fans are impatient, they want a winner because they believe that makes them a winner, and they believe the ‘fantasy’ approach to baseball makes a great team. I was hoping that last years adversity would have built some character for the Mets. But now we’ll never know because we’ve spent 150 million to help buy themselves a championship. Where’s the fun in that? At least I’ve still got the G Men!
for me, it would depend on what the circumstances were (ie why we couldn’t get santana)…if it was because the yanks or sox gave them the package they wanted and there’d been nothing Omar could really do (trading Jose was always unacceptable to me, and I think most of us), then that’s one of those “whaddyagonnado” things; I still felt we had a good team, and that the collapse required a phenomonal amount of bad luck to happen, as much as an inadequate team. We weren’t obliterated all year, we lost by one game.
However, if we couldn’t get him because of some stupid little sticking point (10 million, a guarnteed year) I would’ve been very, very disappointed, and my faith in the team would be severly shaken.
happily, it’s a moot point. I voted “it still hurts and I’ll remember it forever” not as an indictment against omar (or willie), but as a defining moment of baseball education. Like the time we vivisected a frog in biology. Just an eternal reminder of how fragile a great season is, and how it is never, ever over until it’s over.
It’s hard to just make any acquisition “happen” so the fact that Omar got it done is kudos to him. If he hadn’t been able to pull it off, it surely wouldn’t have been from lack of effort. That being said, we’d be in a more precarious situation overall without a top of the rotation starter who can be relied on the entire season. However, we’d still be in the hunt for the division. Concerning last year, it’s exactly that, last year. World Series team’s from the previous year can’t go about living on their laurels from that win, so why should a team that collapsed live on their previous year as well? Every year is a new beginning, no matter what happens. As a fan of baseball, I’ve come to expect anything and everything, and its the “newness” of each season, each game, that makes me truly enjoy this game. The fact that Mets collapsed so badly is just part of it, obviously not enjoyable, but it’s part of being a fan to live with the losses to enjoy the wins that much more.
Had they not obtained Johan, I would have tried to be optimistic for the season, but in the back of my head the fall would linger, I truely had minimal confidence in the Mets rotation, however, adding Johan, and bumping everyone down a spot in the rotation, I think drastically changes the outlook for both the season, and on the staff as a whole. And I think it tells the players involved in the collapse, giddy up, we’re ready to roll.
I voted for “What collapse?” …
Had we had not gotten Santana, and signed a Kyle Lohse or Livan to a multi-year deal, I probably would have voted on the other extreme, that being “I’ll never be able to forget it.”
This is what I love about Omar Minaya. He didn’t go out and make the move just to get a name. He didn’t bog down the Mets payroll with bad contracts.
The Gil Meche’s/Ted Lilly’s/Carlos Silva contracts (4 years/40Plus) are awful, and it’s the exact type of contracts that Phillips and Duquette would hand out. Marginal players making large sums of money for long lengths of time.
Instead, Omar is giving great players great amounts of money for great amounts of time. He did it with Pedro. He did it with Beltran. Now he did it with Santana. And we are a better team for it.
Omar has a true knowledge of the market for players, both now and for the future. Three years ago, he signed Pedro for 4/53M. Just three seasons later, Carlos Silva and his 4.31 career ERA got 4/48. These contracts were a Steve Phillips specialty.
Likewise, Omar has a feel for the trade market, and the value of prospects, and a realistic view of what his team is capable of. Not to bring up bad memories, but trading Kazmir, our top prospect, for a marginal pitcher when we are 7 games out of the NL East, and 5 games out of the Wild Card, is insane. His one year in office cost our team 5 years, and possibly a championship. Thanks Jim.
Lastly, Omar pays great players. Great players that Omar has aquired… Pedro, Beltran, Santana… He didn’t nickle and dime them like the Mets did to future MVP Vladimir Guerrero. Seriously, 3 years/30Million???? Correct me if I’m wrong, Omar offered him 5/75M when with the Expos.
All Omar does is not right, and I tend to question some of his moves at times. (Schoenweis, Mota, Valentin, Vargas)… But, I believe with him in office, 2007 is just a blip, and will be erased in 2008 with a World Series banner.
if the mets didn’t pull it off, I would have been upset, but realized it was a trade, and not all about money too. I would have tried to look forward to 2008 and hope last year was a fluke and their current team would pull something great off. I’m one of the optimistic fans here.
With Duaner and Pedro back my expectations were that they would be a much better team in 08 than they were in 07 and were still the NL favorites. Obviously anything can happen, as evidenced by last year, but on paper the Mets are the class of the NL. I don’t think the Philles or the Braves will do as well as they did last year, and lets not forget, it took a Mets collapse of epic proportions for the Phillies to barely edge us out and the Braves to finish 5 games behind.
Adding Santana was the megaton deal that sealed everyone else’s fate in the NL east. Even if he under-performs he will provide that extra boost down the strecth and will likely help in the 09 season in attracting free agents that may hve scoffed at playing in Queens, similar to how Pedro helped out when he was signed…
outraged. snatana was a must. but the mets still need a consistent righty power bat. believe it.
The acquisition of Santana drastically improved the Mets, but I believe that the team would have been the best in the division even if Minaya had to “settle” for a Kyle Lohse type signing. The Mets were smart to play the off season the way they did –they refused to panic and instead followed the Indians in believe that their players really did just under achieve and suffered through a terrible stretch. Had Minaya blown the farm system to drastically improve the team, I think that the Mets would be in a worse situation. Minaya had, in all regards, the perfect off season and has built, arguably, the most talented roster in the National League.
Dylan N.
Orange County, NY
As a fan I would have been disappointed that Omar and the Mets couldn’t adequately address the need for a front-line starting pitcher. In addition, the failure to address this need would have compounded all the negativity and despair associated with “the collapse” as all you’d hear heading into spring training from fans and the media would be “The Mets suffered a historic collapse last year AND they didn’t acquire an ace.”
That being said I believe the Mets would still be competitive within the division, especially considering the starting 5 Philadelphia is likely to trot out to the hill. There’s no reason the team, sans Santana, couldn’t have won in 2008. Still, from a collective psyche standpoint, a dark cloud would have been hanging over the club (and the fans) all year and who knows what kind of effect that would have. The Santana deal helps eliminate a lot of that negativity. Sure, the players will still field a fair share of questions about the end of last season, but Santana is the real story this spring. Now, when pitchers and catchers report in less than two weeks, it’ll be with a sense of excitement, optimism, and hope.
If the Mets had not acquired Santana, I will still attend the games and would have been perfectly content with what we have right now. I do believe that the Mets need to get these young pitchers coming up the system the chance to pitch a lot of innings in order for them to have a better feel of going deeper into the game.
Being that they acquired Santana, had they blew the negotiations and then Santana were to decide that he will veto the deal, I will not show my face up at Shea Stadium or Citi Field for that matter. I think I’ll be the only NY’er to sport a baseball cap that is no longer the Mets and will NEVER be a Yankee cap… I despise the Yankees too much to even consider crossing over to the other side. I hope the Mets do not get wrapped up in a bidding war over Kyle Lohse… I’d rather have Livan who is proven than Lohse. Anyone knows what Ollie will cost the Mets? 4-5 years, $60M? I hope Boras better not dare blurt that Perez is “better” than Santana… because Boras will set himself up for a disappointment.
Obviously everyone is more confident with Santana, but as a fan since before ‘69, i was still very high on this year’s team to begin with. I’ve seen a lot worse going into a season. The collapse was a fluke occurance, nothing more. If the Mets didn’t get Santana, I still would have given Omar kudos for doing all he could to try and land a difference maker. It’s not as easy as focusing on a certain player and just doin a deal, as so many fans seem to think. You have to match up with another team, outbid other teams(even if Hughes isn’t involved), and then hope the other team is pleased enough to accept.
I still would have flet that it stung, but would have looked forward to 2008. I am ever the Mets fan and will pick myself up and be able to go forward.
I definitely would have been annoyed with management. After last season’s monumental collapse, this off season was crucial; and not acquiring a well respected and dominant pitcher would have showed no commitment to winning. I would have also been disappointed with Omar; because he said he will get a big name player and Hernandez and Lohse are not a big name player. But we don’t have to worry about that because we got Santana.
you assume too much of omar. 1st of all a player has to be available. 2nd, another team has to like what the mets would be able to provide. omar was in the running for oswalt and bedard among others. just because a deal couldnt get done doesnt mean he shows no comittment to winning. it simply means other teams werent interested or the mets didnt have the pieces. if he listened to the fans we would be overpayin zito right now and would have been out of the running for santana.
As much as what Johan brings to the team from a pure baseball standpoint, almost as important is how he also changes the entire conversation about the Mets. He’s like minty-fresh mouthwash, rinsing away the terrible taste of the collapse. Sure, we’ll always remember it, and file it away with the other heartaches to agonize over years from now, but at least in Spring of ‘08 it’s no longer foremost in our minds. We really needed something huge like this to allow us to have a fresh start.
If they hadn’t pulled off the trade because the Yankees or RedSox truly had a better offer on the table and the Mets couldn’t match it unless they included Reyes then so be it, but if they hadn’t acquired him and all they had to do was include Fernando Martinez I would have been very upset. Eventhough I feel he has tremendous potential, I think this acquisition was much more important. If we hadn’t landed Santana I would have rather signed Livan than Lohse because his deal would have most likely been shorter term and I feel that he’s more of a workhorse who can eat up innings. I was also hoping that if it had happened, him reuniting with his brother Orlando would have allowed him to pitch a little bit better than he has in the past. I only would have wanted to sign Lohse if we were in dire need of a starter.
It is so important for the mindset of the Mets and and their fans that this signing was done. The acquisition of Johan Santana helps everyone on the team and allows them to keep a good mindset on the field. If a free-agent signing of Lohse or Livan was done, I would still be supportive of the Mets as awlays as one of their fans, but the collapse would be a big part in my mind during the season. This signing has me looking forward to big things for the Mets this year as they will certaintly play hard in every aspect, but also future years to come.
If the Mets would not have stolen Johan (this was a shock to me), and have signed Lohse of Livan, I honestly would have believed that Omar did the best he could given what was available in the limited marketplace. Maybe he could have made a play for the arms that left Oakland, but those appeared to be exclusive non-competitive deals and the Mets would have been long-shot outsiders. I would not have had any anomosity towards the brass in their inability to land a stud like Johan. But I would still certainly be enraged over the puzzling Milledge trade, the lack of offseason bullpen acquisitions, and much less optomistic about 2008. Prior to Johan, this club was a littel bit worse than last season. Now with Johan, everything makes much more sense.
But here is the thing…you still have to play out the season. That is what last season taught us. I REFUSE to award the Mets the 2008 NL East Crown in early Feb just because of Johan. Anyone who thinks otherwise must be put in their place immediately.
But what this signing does will do is narrow down the true issue with this club if they were to again fail in 2008. The Wilpons gave Omar an open checkbook to get some groceries. Omar turned around and set a beaut of a table. Now Willie and the coaching staff must deliver. Folks….let’s not forget, we still have a manager who was clueless last September in the face of major adversity. He managed as if his team was entitled to the Division, neglected the X’s and O’s, and managed not to lose. The postseason prior, he was simply out-managed by Tony LaRussa and failed to make his more superior team as hungry as that St. Louis squad. Let’s be brutally honest, if Willie does not alter his flawed ‘Joe Torre’ approach to managing this season, than I feel we still have a fundamental issue that 5 Johan Santana’s cannot cure.
The only sure thing the Johan signing does is absolve Omar and the Wilpons of any blame next year in the case of failure. They did their job. And if Willie does not do his job….he will be standing on that Island all by himself next September. And that would not only answer the questions of 2008, but also answer the questions left pending these past 2 years.
Mets didn’t get Johan? i would have been as distraught as Danny 1986 under a Hillary Clinton administration.
The collapse was devastating, but I was more affected by the give away of Lastings Milledge after years of cherishing him. Mismanagement has been this teams’ worst characteristic for a long time, and before Johan I admit I felt as though this team was headed back to the future, back to the Art Howe years, in too many ways. Honestly, we already knew Omar was a wizard with the checkbook, so although he deserves kudos for getting Johan for so little, and every GM makes mistakes, not protecting Jesus Flores and letting go of Lastings are an indelible part of his profile in my opinion. When the going got rough last year, we heard little from Omar. Perhaps he needs to be a more vocal leader. Of course Willie was already toasting the season as it slipped through the Mets hands.
Now, I agree with Danny–the spotlight is on Willie. Will he learn to manage? But the spotlight should also be on this team’s heart–will they show some of it? With Pedro and Delgado back in the swing of things, I expect this team to turn to its natural leaders. It is too bad that the expectations are so high they will eclipse the joy of watching Santana do what he does. But its a nice problem to suffer.
Let me put a disclaimer on my Willie comments. Willie will be on that Island if the Mets fail and NOT have any major injuries in 2008. Injuries are the single biggest uncontrollable roadblocks to team success, and if a few major ones occur (like the 1987 mets), than I think that will unfortunately cloud the fact that Willie’s managing style might work in the Bronx, but doesn’t cut it with a younger and historically less disciplined squad in Flushing.
I just thought of a great new poll for Cerrone:
If Bobby Valentine was the Mets manager, what would have been the outcome these past 2 seasons?
I can guarantee one thing….no way in hell does that collpase occur.
Don’t get me going on Hillary. What an absolutely detestible individual/robot. But you may be surprised to hear that Obama is quite intriguing to Danny1986. So much so that if it were between he and Romney, I may just have to vote for Steve Spagnuolo.
I would have been pretty disgruntled if Omar hadn’t done anything this winter, but I would have gone nearly balistic if he had signed Livan, especially to more than one year. Enough on that – because Omar pulled off an amazing off season victory and needs to be highly commended. His stock is back skyhigh and we can hope that he is solidifying a legacy for himself – maybe even Met Hall of Fame and Baseball Hall of Fame for him, but strangely enough, he now needs to have these guys play the games for him on the field – and as he sometimes doesn’t do – respond a little quicker when trouble comes. Get the right person when someone isn’t right or is hurt. Of course, easier said than done. In September during the collapse and apparently at the Winter Meetings when we were trying to get Santana, there was a lot of chuckling going on at us, but now, no one is gonna want to help out the Mets. It’s good that our reputation is preceding us again, so players again want to come here, but the expectations are now extremely high in NY and nationally.
I would have been disapointed because of the hype that surrounded the possibility of a move and there is such a drop off between Santana and someone like Lohse or Hernandez.
I would have still been confident but no where near the confidence I have now.
Unfortunately there are 30 teams in this league. We get what we try to get, not what we want to get. That being said, Omar and company, have more of an idea of what they are trying to do than any of us fans do. Since Omar and Willie have been in charge, the Mets have always provided a winning program. I trust them to do what’s best for us.
Had the Santana deal not happened, I still would have been high on the Mets chances this year.
For starters, for all the talk of The Collapse, the Mets still were bringing back the team that has been on top of the NL East for pretty much 95% of the last two seasons combined. To miss out on the playoffs last season, it not only took a collapse of historic proportions, but it also took a great run by the Phillies, who likely could not sustain that type of play over an extended stretch- Manuel got 5 innings out of his starters, and then had the same guys coming out of the pen each game. As we saw with our team, that is certainly a recipe for disaster.
The real problem for the Mets last season, and one that is almost never discussed, is the fact that they had terrible production out of the 5th spot in the rotation. It was inconsistent all year, featuring Pelfrey, Sosa, Vargas, Lawrence, and Humber to name a few. Jorge Sosa was the only one who had a decent stretch. Filling that spot with a pitcher of at least league average caliber would go a long way toward stabilizing the team. Seeing as the team missed out by one game, it is fairly safe to say that it would have been a difference maker. (In addition, it would also help to rest the bullpen, which crumbled from being overworked.
In addition, we also have -fingers crossed- a healthy Duaner, who more likely than not would have had a greater impact than Mota, and given that the team missed out by one game, his presence last season could have been a difference maker.
Another impact player returning from injury is Pedro. If he is anything resembling the pitcher we saw at the end of ‘07 (minus the little kid treatment), that would be a boon for the rotation. Figure he replaces the 5th starter, and Loshe/Livan would replace Glavine, who provided 200 pretty much league average innings. That adds up to a major upgrade.
Ultimately, I think the team would have the horses to be competitive with the Phillies, and Braves, would likely win the division. However, October is a whole different game, and that is where having Santana really makes an impact.
I would be fearing for Willy, a slot start and he would have been gone as the first savrificial lamb.
The reality is that the market was very thin. You know Omar would rather not deal with Billy Know it All Beane, and once Haren was gone, were we really going to get excited about Blanton? I guess we could have taken a flyer on Mark Prior, but thats more of the reclamation projects we were getting tired of.
The trade market offered Bedard of course, but no way did we have enough for him either, especially since his free agency is 2 years away I believe.
The Fact that Johan was almost a free agent, had trade veto was huge. He gets out of the bloodbath of the AL and finds a nice cozy corner of the clubhouse.
Don;’t think that Omar did not see this three moves ahead when he traded for Castillo, then resigned him for 4 years. Omar is sly, he knew that Castillo was buds with Santana, and this gives Johan an instant comfort factor in the clubhouse for the next 4 years.
That free agent signing, led to this one, it seemed minor at the time, but having Castillo I think steered Johan to Shea with his Trade Veto in hand.
That being said, if we were left with Livan or Losche I would have taken it and hoped for the best, but the Ace Free Agent pitchers are very, very rare.
This is awesome!
For all the Philly and Brave fans who say “he’s only one guy” and “he only pitches once every five days” doesn’t get it. It’s much more than that. His presence can be felt twice every five days. Reason being is that the garbage #5 starter is now eliminated from the equation and was replaced by probably the best #5 starter in the NL (El Duque). In addition, the confidence he gives the team and the fear he strikes in opponents will be very valuable.
If Omar doesn’t sign Santana, settles for a Lohse or Livan and the Mets mised the playoffs this year, he’s out of a job at the end of the year, plain and simple. He HAD to get this deal done. If he doesn’t pull the deal off, there really wouldn’t have been much to get excited about as a Mets fan this year. The team would have ultimately been the same one that fell apart last year. The excitement and expectations are high for this year and I suspect that anything short of a World Series appearance will be viewed as a failure by most fans.
Had the Mets not aquired Johan, I would’ve had some serious doubts about them going into the season. I wasn’t terribly enamored with Glavine but he’s still better than the 3rd rate dreck that was available to sign via free agency, so losing him and not replacing him with someone as good or better would have greatly concerned me. I would have still been hopefull within a weak division but I probably would have figured that should the Mets make the playoffs they’d get bounced as hard as the Phils did in ‘07. Now I think the Mets are a legit contender should they make the playoffs. I still say IF they make the playoffs because Santana is only one piece of the puzzle. A large part of the puzzle is:
A) A change in team attitude
B) Jose not wearing himself out the way he did
C) Duaner coming back strong
Among other things. However, there has been some encouraging news on Duaner thus far. I’m hoping that the aquisition of Johan can help contribute to a healthier team attitude. And I’m hoping that Jose learned an important lesson and can avoid playing flat and listless down the stretch run.
He was already quoted as saying that he will ask Willie for more rest next time when he needs it.
if the Mets didn’t get Johan, I would have cheered for John Maine to challenge for the Cy Young. Now, I’ll settle for him, Johan and Petey splitting the vote amongst writers.
With cautious optimism. We’re still the same team we were before we signed Santana as we are now. Granted, he is one of if not the best pitcher in the game and there is no ignoring the ripple effect he’ll have on the rest of the team (starting rotation depth, bullpen rest, etc.). However, if you were to substitute in Kyle Lohse instead of Santana you’d still have to worry about injuries to the lineup and rest of the rotation that could still hurt this team during the season.
The Mets needed to get Santana in order to make any attempt to put last season behind them. They were still able to keep some of their youth and now they have the best pitcher in baseball. Along with Pedro, Maine and Perez, the Mets should be ready for 2008.
Lohse and Livan were not the answers and at this point have no place on this roster. I would rather let Pelfrey be the 5th starter or put him in the bullpen
If we hadnt picked up santana, and replaced glavines two-hundo innings with hernandez or lohse. Even with pedro back and rollin the dice with oli and maine, our pitching would have been suspect, and quite similar to last year, our bullpen would most likely burn out again come september. And my liver would be screaming obscenities at me once again.
Without Santana were competitive, but have some serious questioin marks for a team that still has many fans reeling from last year. (i’m trying to forget, but last september was taxing.)
Santana changes everything. He makes the bullpen stronger, he eases the burden on pedro, oli, and maine. he makes us consider putting our most reliable pitcher of ‘07, el duque, in the bullpen. and most definitly assures that the mets are gonna be pretty damn good club to watch this year. An assurance lohse or hernandez couldnt even come close to matching.
Not only that, but when the option arises to skip the #5 starters turn, they can do that to keep Duque fresh and maybe avoid a trip to the DL. Without Santana, they would not be able to afford to skip Duque because he was too relied upon.
Lohse or Livan would not have been an upgrade over Glavine, the rest of the moves are not upgrades either – Church is cheaper than Green but not better, what Schenider improves in defense we lose in offense. Without an upgrade I would have hoped, but think we would have struggled to win the division.
Aquiring Santana is a major upgrade and has changed the whole team dynamic going into the season. we now have a true ace. Every 5th start he will take the ball and we will EXPECT a win. Can you imagine if we’d had Santana pitching in that last game instead of Glavine…..
The only way NOT acquiring Johan would’ve bothered me is if it had happened after the deal was agreed upon by the Twins and Mets. Because until it was reported last Monday, I had LONG resigned myself to the idea that the Mets were not going to get him. After Monday’s announcement of the deal, going to Lohse or Livan would’ve been a lot to take.
In the 30 years I’m watching the Mets I have seen them have MUCH worse pitching staffs than any, where Lohse/Livan play prominent members of the rotation. Would they’ve been locks to make the playoffs? No. But they would’ve still been in contention. And I’d have been rooting that team on with all my might…
Had the Mets not pulled off the trade in the first place (I think it’s what the question asked,) I would have just gone into the year being disappointed, but rooting for the team that I have loved for 35 years. Having said that, if the Santana trade fell apart, I would have been trying on my Red Sox jersey and joining Red Sox Nation.
If that’s the attitude, you’re welcome to ‘em.
The Collapse will stick in my craw forever, but not in a bad way. It now goes beside things like Kenny Rogers walk of Andrew Jones. I’ll never forget it, it will always hurt, but that’s part of being a fan. I won’t forget it, but still look forward to ‘08.
If the Mets had to settle for Lohse or Livan instead of Santana, I still would have been pretty upbeat about the season. However, there would have been a lot of “if’s”. They should have Pedro for a full season IF he stays healthy. A rotation consisting of a healthy Pedro as well as two 15 game winners, Livan/Lohse and then El Duque or Pelfrey seemed like a fairly decent rotation to me. However, it was nothing to get overly excited about.
Duaner Sanchez should be able to solidify the bullpen IF he is healthy and IF he is still affective. Other than that, I am anxious to see how much of an impact Schneider has on the pitching staff in both handling pitchers and defense. I am also anxious to see Luis Castillo as a Met for a full season as well as seeing how Ryan Church does in a new city.
No Santana would have made for an interesting season in the NL East in which we probably still would’ve won. Thank God Omar pulled it off. I had heard some whispers of……a possible return of……the one and only…..LIMA TIME! Heaven forbid! Now, barring there’s not a mass amount of injuries that fans are signing contracts, we should take back what is ours. Phillies are still a good team w/ a nasty lineup but for some reason they still do not scare me. Probably because their pitching staff has question marks much like ours perhaps but I find ours w/ less. Plus them losing Rowand kind of hurts. The guy brought some character to a soft team. And that other team, the Braves, may have regressed this offseason. Kotsay for Jones? Whoever(Infante?) for Renteria? Is Mike Hampton going to get hurt walking to the mound? Lots of questions. The best part about the Braves is now we can pounce on Tommy boys 83 mph heater (if the wind is behind is back and his arm feels good that day of course, otherwise 78mph).
I just threw up in my mouth. Don’t even joke about Lima time coming back to Shea. Not cool.
Mets aren’t winning anything until they bring back Turk Wendell. You think it’s a coincidence that they haven’t been back to a World Series since they traded him? I call it the Curse of the Wendino.
I would have voted “0″ on the confidence meter. Acquiring Lohse and/or Livan Hernandez would have the team in ok position to start the season, but not in any position to contend without an in-season acquisition. With that big “IF”, I would have voted “0″. Is there even a “0″ level?
I would have been absolutely disgusted by the front office and their excuse for an “offseason” if they had settled for a Lohse or Livan Hernandez. It was absolutely imperative for the Omar Minaya to go out and get a front of the rotation starter, preferably an ace, a true one, which is a position we have not had in a long time.
I would have tried to be positive if the mets had signed a junky innings eater and not made the santana move. But the truth is the mets starting pitching was a weakness last year, and a weakness in ‘06. A good starter, or a GREAT starter, was the difference maker. Pitching wins. Guys like LIvan and Lohse baffle me. Why pay someone who can ‘throw a lot of innings’ if they’e mostly bad innings? Thats like saying, ‘well at least he’ll be out on the mound.’ or ‘at least we won’t NOT have a pitcher to lose our games’. It depresses me to even think of Livan as the consolations prize.
If we never traded for Santana, I would still look foward to next year because you never know what will happen. If we were close to a deal and it fell through I would be more disappointed than if we gave it our all and the Twins just decided to go somewhere else. That said, we not only needed this deal to help ease the pain of 2007 and to bring some credibility back to our organization but as we all know, we needed a number one pitcher. Pitching wins championships, just ask the Marlins, Dbacks, and the Red Sox. I would feel very confident in having a number one pitcher when headed into the new season and hopefully the post-season.
If this deal did not happen, I would still support my team, just with a little more nervousness knowing that our pitching may or may not get us over the hump.
Before this trade, i felt so blase about 2008, it was sad. After 2007 ended and the Depression settled down a bit this Johan thing took over my days man!
Without Johan it would have felt like an extension of 07 an expected depressing sad feeling of sub-par baseball, now we can move on and get excited.
Omar did what he had to do, and he cannot be blamed for failure if it happens, if this team underachieves again its time for a gut check.
Had this trade not happened I would have entered this season with a bad taste in my mouth. I personally thought the writing was on the wall almost the entire year last year. Outside of the great start the team had, they barely played .500 ball from June on. In my mind, they did not improve upon the team that collapsed.
However, as every loyal Mets fan has done and will continue to do, I would tune in every night to live and die with this team.
NOW, it is different! Adding Santana brings much more than 15-20 wins. After losing a tremendous locker room presence like LoDuca or Glavine, this team seemingly was lacking a spark heading into the season. I think this team will come charging out of the gates and will not take their collective foot off the accelorator all year.
I thought that 2006 was this team’s best shot, but not any more. 2008 should be a year that we remember what happened in 2007 and not let it happen again!
The collapse isn’t a huge deal. Don’t get me wrong, it was bad. BUT
It was merely a losing streak in an umopportune time. It was due to fatigue and crappy coaching based on the situation. The relievers and starters were overused. The hitters were either injured or playing every single game. Ways to solve that:
1) Improve amount of MLB-ready bullpen arms. Check that one off. We now have Wagner, Heilman, Wise, Sosa, Sanchez, Smith, Register, Schoeneweis, Lugo, Feliciano, and Pelfrey.
2) Improve durability of starting rotation. Check that one off too. Although Glavine put up innings, he was bad in September. Santana is a whiz in the second half and eats up innings. Also, the fifth rotation spot can be split between Hernandez, Pelfrey and Sosa.
3) Get a comprehensive bench. Castro, Easley, Gotay, Valentin, Anderson, Chavez, Pagan, Hernandez. Check plus.
If the Mets had to settle for Kyle Lohse or Livan Hernandez as thier offseason pitching signing, I would surely be dissapointed but I would have still viewed the Mets as favorites and the reason I would have felt that is because at the end of the day, what happened in the end of 2007 was not much of the Phillies winning but the Mets losing the division. It took an AMAZING run by both the Phillies and the Mets for the Phillies to eventually win the division. The Mets did not make the playoffs by one game.
And the Phillies certainly didn’t get much better, you can make the argument they got worse.
As far as the Braves go, losing the defense of Renteria and Andruw Jones is not a positive and anyone who considers Tom Glavine a key to the playoff run is strongly mistaken.
The road to the playoffs would have been harder but the Mets still would have been the better team.
Johan just makes it ALOT easier.
I would have been really discouraged. It would have made me reconsider my relentless support for the Mets due to the fact that all of these rumors and possibilities came to nothing. I would have felt betrayed and it would have reshaped my outlook (at least for sometime) on what baseball truly is.
If you told me during the Winter that the Mets were not going to get a big pitcher like Santana but a durable pitcher like Hernandez I would have felt fine. But after all these rumors, I felt that we deserved Santana and that he was already ours. If we did not get him, I would have felt betrayed.
Overall, we all need to keep ourselves in check and in perspective. Baseball isn’t forever and it will not be there when we die. After all, does anyone automatically know who won the 82 world series? I bet it was incredibly important to the team then but now no one really cares. Let’s keep things in perspective… this is why I really liked Tom Glavine’s quote on his last start for the Mets. That’s the kind of player I would like to have on my team.
Ken Kulig Bergen County, NJ
It’s kind of hard to accept that way of thinking when you’re making 15 million per year. When you’re that fortunate to be doing something most people only dream of, and are personally responsible for breaking millions of people’s hearts, that quote was simply uncalled for, even though it wasn’t necessarily wrong. It was simply not the right time or place.
It would have been tough to watch the mets this year, but now I’m more excite dthan ever….this is the first time in my life that we’ve had a number 1 of this caliber
Had we not scored Santana, I would be disappointed/downtrodden. I would NOT threaten to stop paying attention, I would NOT boo the players or the organization, and I would NOT demand any championship or titles or else. I would NOT take a header off any ledges, I would NOT post doom and gloom messages on Metsblog.
I would watch. I would root. I would wonder what could have been.
It would have been a tremendous let down in great proportions. Let me give you two analogies in my Mets Life Time. In the Winter of 2000 we were expecting ARod to sign with the Mets and Mike Hampton to re-sign with them. It was a done deal until it did not happen. Before that, was the Black Summer of 1977 when The Mets traded Tom Seaver and Dave KIngman.
had the mets acquired livan hernandez or kyle lohse, i would have been disappointed, but in all honesty, i trust omar and would’ve accepted that he tried to land bedard or santana but didn’t have the prospects to do so. i’m obviously thrilled we got johan. but with all that being said, and even if we had signed livan or lohse b/c santana or bedard didn’t work out, i would still feel the same way: these guys have something to prove… all of these guys do. reyes, wright, pedro, perez, maine, beltran, delgado, alou… and for that matter, even santana, baseball’s new highest paid pitcher– they all have something huge to prove. they ought to be playing with an enormous chip on their shoulders. be it the braves, the marlins, the phils, the nats, or the team the AL sends to the 2008 world series. i really need to see these guys come out like a bat out of hell, with something to prove. the pain from the collapse of ‘07 is still with me, and i hope they play like it’s still with them.
Wilie is not like that. He “turns the page” and doesn’t let stuff like that stay with him.
i guess i disagree with willie on that philosophy, then. i think these guys HAVE TO come out with a paul-lo-duca-chippyness to them… all personal issues aside, what i always admired about lo duca was he played like a guy with something to prove, and with a score to settle. i love seeing the guys have fun- the smiles of reyes, wright, pedro martinez– all that’s contagious– but at the same time, i need to see these guys settle a score not only with the phillies and the NL east, but with the entire league. that there’s unfinished business. that they were immature last year and have grown up, and won’t mess around again.
This question should be in two parts. A) if no trade took place, B) if no deal was struck.
If the trade didn’t happen, I would wonder if the Mets failed to offer enough, but honestly I would continue business as usual. Signing Livan or Lohse et al has been standard operating pro- cedure since Pedro and for much longer before that. This Santana deal is something I never allowed myself to legitimately hope for until very recently. It is a heaven-sent stroke of genius and luck that I am so grateful for as a fan. I would have generated as much hope and optimism as ever, but I would be dis- appointed overall with the lack of ’splash’ this offseason, Santana or no.
If a deal was not reached after the trade was agreed to in principle, I truly do not know how I would react. The reason: it was inconceivable. I love Omar, he’s been savvy and great from day one, and he deserves SO much credit for his patience, per- serverance, and poker-face this offseason. BUT, to even suggest that there was a chance for the deal not to get done is asinine. If a deal was not done, then he certainly would be. I don’t know the intricacies of contract negotiations, and perhaps that’s why I mis- understand Omar’s comments regarding Friday around 4:30 EST, but why even suggest to the Mets fanbase that he even came within a light-year of not securing Santana?
Had the Mets had to settle for Lohse or Livan, I would have been a bit perturbed. Although I would have hoped that we could get some development from another source such as Pelfrey or Humber, I would have been worried about the state of the pitching staff.
With age in two spots, and potential without a satisfactory body of work in two spots, not to mention a bullpen full of question marks, I would have been heavily concerned about the ball club’s ability to win consistently.
The offense would have had quite a burden to carry, and had any of the older players (Delgado) continued a slide, things would have been very alarming.
The only way to erase it is with a World Series championship, but this organization is not committed to such an endeavor.
My reaction would have been one of ambivalence towards the upcoming season, one that would have been filled with a lot of “what-ifs” and “what-if-nots”. The acquisition of Santana answers the questions that we Mets fans and the Press have been asking for the past two years: “What about the rotation?”. I firmly believe that with Santana, the Mets at the very least make the WS in ‘06 and finish off last season with an NL East Championship. Simply not having to go to guys like Williams, Park, Vargas, and Lawrence would have secured that if everything else stayed the same.
The “ifs” this year pale in comparison to the acquisition of a true Ace, one that can stop losing streaks and strike fear in the hearts of opposing playoff teams, as anyone who remember not wanting to face Mike Scott a third time in the ‘86 NLCS can attest to.
If all the Mets did to improve were sign Lohse or Livan Hernandez, I would have been EXTREMELY angry and pessimistic for 2008. Not only would no one had been held accountable for the collapse but nothing would have been done to address the Mets glaring needs.
Here is my feeling. The most imporant losses we suffered were not to the Nats and the Marlins. We lost 8 straight to the Phillies, our only rival. The Phillies’ starting pitching, which was dreadful, and their bullpen, which was horrendous, shut down our hitters. I know our pitching stunk too, but they shut us down. They did not simply outscore us. Their putrid bullpen blanked us. Well, that same lineup is back for another go. I suppose I can look at it like: well, we should be able to win 1 of those 8 this year. I cannot get it out of my craw. The same clowns are back with the bats. The same clowns who got shut down by Jeff Frigging Suppan in Game 7 at home the year before! I have followed this team since 62, and have seen a lot of garbage, some really atrocious baseball. But nothing bothered me more than the quit this team showed last year. And they are almost all back. Some one’s head should have rolled after last year. Doing nothing is just like forgiving failure. Winning teams do not forgive faiure.
I would have been beyond disappointed if we didn’t get Santana. I’ve been desperately wanting him the entire off-season, and I was willing to give just about anything to get him, besides Wright and Reyes, of course.
I’ve had four months to heal. But if the Santana situation had ended without him coming to Shea, those feelings that I felt last September 30th would have come crashing back to me with Spring Training right around the corner, and I would have had very little optimism going into the season.
Instead, now it’s easy to forget what happened last season and just look ahead with great excitement and optimism for 2008. Let’s bring one last World Series title to Shea Stadium.
Dave P, Kingston NY
I would have been EXTREMELY disappointed. The mets would have not had a solid rotation, and in my opinion that is the key to winning championships
I would have been guardedly optimistic about this season. Hoping that a weak NL would make up for a question mark filled rotation. I would have still rooted for them and been very excited to watch them, but I certainly would have been disappointed and would let last year’s collapse cloud any enthusiasm generated by a hot start or surprising performances. I guess the easy answer, i’m a mets fan and always will be, but this makes it a lot more fun
I would not have been happy with just a Hernandez or Lohse acquisition, but at the same time, I would recognize that Omar had no other options. It was fairly clear from the onset that Minaya was trying to land a big name pitcher, and if he had failed to do so, it wouldn’t have been because of a lack of effort. It would have simply been because there was no fit between the Mets and the clubs that were willing to deal one. Not one of the available free agents was a difference maker, so Omar’s options were very limited. Thank God for Johan, I still can’t believe he’s a Met. If I’m dreaming, let me sleep!
Mark in Syracuse
Let me just add that i have thought all along, even before Santana, that the mets could win their conference if they just played HARD more often. I do not, however, know if they can ever win it all with this bunch. And I want to win it all. With the kind of money we spend and the kind of BS we talk, we better win it all.
I would have voted that “it still stings and will not go away” if the Santana trade and sign did not go down. I would have been satisfied if Omar had tried and failed to get Santana due to the Twins liking the prospects of the other teams in the running. I would have been very pesimistic for the 2008 season however. I know that Santana is only one pitcher starting every 5th day, but as some have said in this string, he makes the entire team better: The starters….less pressure on Pedro, John, Ollie and El Duque/Pelfry . each faces a lessor opponent than they wjould without having an ACE like Santana. The relief corps gets a little more rest , not as stressful for them. The offense doesn’t have to get quite as many runs and are in the game longer due to a better starting five, more time to score runs.
Most of all, the entire 25 man team doesn’t become obsessed about the “collapse” if they lose a few games in a row. It is truly history now and the new members of the team and the ones from last years team are in a different job responsibility now and they all will react differently in 2008.
A remarkable feat by Omar that augers well not only for 2008 but two or three years from now also.
Yet again all the shills and apologists continue to defend this sorry franchise. Oh whoopty-doo they got Johan Santana, but COME ON! The fact is, is that team still collapsed, they still kept that moronic idiot fool of a manager and our General Manager continues to do nothing to improve the offense or the bullpen. We could have gotten A-Rod when the time was right, but NO, we let him go back to the Yanks for a bigger contract. This is pathetic. They wont get a dime from me until this team fires Willie or wins a world series.
LMAO
I would have been a bit nervous but still confident. I feel that almost any Mets team can bounce back from that September, ride the wave of the resulting emotion, so to speak. Still, I’ll take Santana over Livan any 5 days.
Being a Yankee fan, I would have laughed at you guys if that happened.
I would have been extremely mad if all they did in the off-season was sign Kyle Lohse or Livan Hernandez. They decided to sacrifice offense for defense by letting Lo Duca go for Schneider and trading Milledge and replacing him with Church. If your going to weaken your lineup and not strengthen your rotation it just doesn’t work.
Differently, depending on whether Lohse, Hernandez, or Door C; but overall, bummed a bit–mostly that the NYM farm system was too poor to allow such a trade, as the rumour went, and thus cast a cloud not only on the near future, but beyond.
I would have challenged the entire Mets organization to a walk-off, and maybe Matt Cerrone as well.
Now that Santana has been signed and 2006 is an even more distant memory than it was in September, I COULD say last year’s collapse didn’t hurt as much as the 2006 NLCS, but I think at the time, the collapse felt worse, just because it took so much longer –> drawn out, torturous pain (I recall comparing it to a kitten dying of cancer or some other similarly cheerful idea). Plus, there are more Phillies fans where I live now than there were Cards fans where I lived then, so that made it even more horrible.
I also firmly believe that the Lucas Prata Mets song of 2006 did more for team morale than Kat DeLuna’s mediocre effort.
um that was supposed to be a reply to someone but I forget who
I would have still watched, because even though we played 500 ball most of the season, it still took a HISTORIC COLLAPSE for the Phillies to take first place and it was only by 1 game. Add the fact that they lost Rowand and i really don’t think they’re any better than last year. Same goes for Atlanta after losing Renteria and Jones who has saved that pitching staff a ton of runs with his defense.
It would have been salt in an open wound still left from last year’s collapse – Minaya would have had to go!!
It would have still been a sore point.But now it’sw becomming a distant memory.
I would have been on a fire Willie crusuade,but now ,he can’t do no wrong.
Everything is at peace.Untill the Braves or Phillies take the first series.Untill then I egerally await spring.
I would root for our team just as I have since 1962.
But Johan brings a Seaver-like pillar to out rotation and a confidence that we can win.
I love our team as it is.
I love our GM.
Willie I would like to see replaced; he is much to laid back to lead (in my opinion).
Thank you,
David in Bolton Landing
our rotation…
If the Mets hadn’t signed Santana and settled for one of Livan or Lohse, the taste of last year’s collapse would be nearly as bitter as it was the day after the season ended. As a die-hard fan, like many of us here, and someone who’s invested a lot of time and money in the Mets, it would have been irresponsible of the organization to not make a more concerted effort (no offense to Church & Schneider) to make amends for a very terrible time in the Franchise’s history. As you’ve so aptly pointed out, this acquisition changes everything. We still need to win the games on the field, but we’re in a much better position to make that happen now and I truly believe that the players themselves are excited just like the fans.
I am now eager to attend each of my 13 Saturday games this year, hopefully a few more mixed in, and can’t wait for my daily dose of the Mets on SNY and CW11. I just hope that my playoff deposit actually goes towards playoff tickets this year, rather than towards next year’s tickets.
Speaking of which, Matt, now that you’re playing with the big boys at SNY and have some access to the powers that be, it’s time to start laying the groundwork for partial season ticket plans at Citi Field. Otherwise I fear I may not be lucky enough to attend games at the new stadium until who knows when.
Chad
White Plains
It definitely would have been devastating to see Johan go somewhere else and have to come to terms for somebody like a kyle lohse. My optimistic side would say “Hey Lohse battled well for the phillies last year down the stretch”. But still…it would hurt. Surprisingly though even after the collapse for some reason I really believe in Willie Randolph. Just trust em no matter what. And for a final thought I hope they really don’t forget the collapse…..They should remember that when their winning divisions and championships. Lets go Mets
My feelings heading into this season had the Mets not acquired Santana would be different if he were still a Twin or if he had gone to the Yankees. I’d like to say it wouldn’t matter but had the best pitcher in baseball joined the best player in baseball a mere 10 miles away I would have felt about as low as I did on October 1, 2007.
I would have awaited my tickets for the 08 season and tried to convince myself that a healthy Pedro puts the Mets a lot closer to 06 than 07, but I would have known in my heart that at best the Mets were playing for 2nd place yet again.
With no offense to Kyle Losh or Livan Hernandez intended, I would of never considered their signings to be a contribution and just a body filling a roster spot with knowing Johan Santana was a legitimate possible acqusition. Especially with all the teasing and public discussions by the Wilpons of giving the green light to Omar Minaya to complete this trade and willingness to add a record breaking contract to the payroll.
Captain Tom
Howard Beach
Without Johan Santana I would have the same way I felt in April of 2007. The team has a nice chance to win 90 games and complete for the NL east title but is nowhere near a WS contender. The pitching staff would be too risky and would not be able to survive through the whole season.
I would have been extremely disappointed. I know it would have helped the rotation to have an innings eater but it really would not have improved us a great deal. The addition of Santana a bonafide ace just lifts up an entire organization from a dark time, Kyle Lohse or Livan Hernandez would not have done the same.
My reaction would have depended almost totally on the timing. That is, had Minnesota jumped on the Yankees’ initial offer (or Boston’s) I’d have said, “C’est la vie. We can’t compete with those kinds of prospects.”
Once Boston signaled, though, that they didn’t need Santana but were perfectly willing to bid up the Yankees I knew Matt had called it here on MetsBlog. It was just a matter of patience and what we’d end up giving up. I’m glad it wasn’t F-Mart.
Oh yeah. I forgot to sign.
That comment was from
Dave C.
S. Carolina
The only way for people to forget the “Great Depression” is to undergo a big splash at the beginning of the year. I think most fans will forget the horific event if Metana (Mets-Santana) goes at least 7-1 at the All-Star Break.
Had the Mets not acquired Johan, I would have been very upset. To not improve the team after last year’s horrific collapse would have sent a message to me that ownership did not care. Fortunately, Omar orchestrated a great trade and the Wilpons spent the money to keep him here. Shows me that they really care about the fans and are committed to winning.
While the aquisition of Santana is cause for great celebration in MetLand, had Omar been unable to get it done, I would still face the ‘08 season with optimism that my team had a very good chance to participate in the post-season.
We all seem very quick to forget that our team was in 1st place for the entire ‘07 season, before the sad ending. And it wasn’t the great play of the Phils that doomed us to second place. It was our own failures, most notably the pitching.
I still feel that a healthy Pedro, followed by Maine and Perez is a top of the rotation to be reckoned with. The bullpen, likewise would be an automatic upgrade if Sanchez can return to his ‘06 form, and addition by subtraction with the banishment of Mota…
Nothing that our division rivals have done has made me think that the Mets couldn’t compete for the NL East crown…
If we had decided to avoid Santana from the beginning of the off season, and never built up the hype of getting him, I’d have been just as content. I think the mets would have been a playoff team either way. Last year was essentially a fluke, and this team would have had a chance to go to the World Series even without Santana. With him, I expect them to get to the World Series with maybe a few less playoff games along the way.
If they hadn’t gotten Johan?
I’d have simply stopped watching until the current roster and management was gone.
i’ll be probly pissed off or be angry…
I had no doubt that Omar would’ve done his best to get Santana. If he didn’t–and didn’t get another top notch starter, like Bedard or Haren–it would not have been for lack of effort. It would have been just because the other teams didn’t like what the Mets have to offer. If he didn’t have the chips, it wouldn’t have been his fault.
That being said, if the Mets hadn’t gotten the ace they so desperately needed, even if they didn’t do anything wrong in the process, I would have a hard time focussing on anything other than the 2007 collapse. There would have been no significant changes, so how could I have much confidence that they would have better results in 2008?
Thankfully, I don’t have to worry about that now.
If the Mets weren’t able to get Johan and had to resort to a signing of Livan or Kyle I wouldn’t have liked it but I would still love em and cheer for them, no question. Would I think they’re a better team or had a good offseason no, because they wouldn’t have had one if Omar didn’t get Santana. Kyle Lohse has a lot of talent and great stuff but I don’t think he is the No.1 the Mets needed or Livan for that matter too.
Santana or Bedard were the only pitchers available that could lift the fans spirits after the end of last season (and the players i think). Go Mets.
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