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During yesterday’s press conference, Mets GM Omar Minaya told 
reporters that, “Orlando Hernandez is part of his team’s starting rotation.”
…i love how these guys always talk in the absolute present…it’s very wise…
…i mean, it’s not like he said, “Orlando Hernandez will be in our starting rotation,” which would be a completely different statement…
…that said, as of now, i do believe their goal is to use el duque in the rotation…however, i truly hope the team at least considers using him from the bullpen while working out in spring training, especially if another pitcher steps up to compete and potentially win over the fifth starters spot…
The thing is, as of now, RHP Pedro Feliciano, RHP Aaron Heilman, RHP Duaner Sanchez, LHP Scott Schoeneweis, RHP Jorge Sosa and LHP Billy Wagner are likely to be guaranteed spots on the team’s opening day roster.
…that’s six relief pitchers…the Mets typically take 11 pitchers to start the season…usually they only need four starters through the first few weeks, but with the way this April’s schedule is it appears they’ll need to break camp with all five…and so, since last i checked, 6+5 = 11, there may be only one remaining spot for a pitcher come opening day…
Adam Bostick, RHP Willie Collazo, RHP Ruddy Lugo, RHP Carlos Muniz, RHP Steven Register, RHP Matt Wise, RHP Joe Smith and RHP Brian Stokes will essentially be competing for that one spot.
…therefore, in order for el duque to shift to the bullpen, and be their final pitcher, some one else will need to wrangle the final spot in the starting rotation from him, while all of these eight additional relievers fail…
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I rather see El Duque in the starting rotation than Schoeneweis….
who knows what Duaner wil lprovide this year…we can not rely on him currently, also guaranteeing a spot to Jorge Sosa is ridiculous…to be honest guaranteeing a spot to nayone but wagner is ridiculous, if heilman pitches poorly and matt wise does not…bye bye heilman, no more “he’s one of my guys” nonsense, just win baby
Denying an established major leaguer like Heilman a spot on the MLB roster because of a poor performance in spring training is ridiculous. Spring training is where the players come to get in “game shape”–to expect them to be at the top of their game would make no sense. Sosa, on the other hand, has never been consistent, so he shouldn’t be guaranteed anything. But even in his case, you make your decision based on how his stuff looks, as compared to Matt Wise and others. And, of course, you do have to consider who has options left, and who doesn’t. If a pitcher cannot be sent down to AAA, you have to decide whether you want to risk losing him for nothing by trying to pass him through waivers. This is especially true if it means the Mets will be paying the majority of a player’s salary to play for another team, which I believe is the case when the player is claimed off waivers (though I am not certain).
1) Mets should carry 12 pitchers all year. There is little way around this unless they make some kind of 3 for 1 trade for Fuentes or someone of that calibre.
2) Duque has to be a starter with Pelfrey starting in AAA. This is due to the lack of good options beyond them. 7th starting candidates will likely be in the pen and not capable of jumping in and giving 6 inning starts (Sosa, Register?, etc) Only Bostick provides more depth while having options and he is very unproven. Figueroa and Vargas arent the answer, imo.
3) The schedule allows the Mets to get through the first three series with only 4 starters, and it would be stupid for them not to take advantage of this. Letting Duque start two weeks later may increase the chances that he is healthy in Sept and Oct for once. In fact he should take it easy in early ST as to limit chances to injure himself there again…
I agree for the most part. Aside from Johan, the Mets have no starters likely to pitch deep into games. Maine and Ollie are capable, but various factors often lead to them throwing a lot of pitches and not lasting late into the games (Maine seems to induce a lot of foul balls, and Ollie can suddenly lose command of the strike zone). Duque, of course, is also capable, but he has to be healthy to do so. And even if he is healthy and capable, you risk injury with him if you have him throw a lot of innings. And, of course, after the surgery, you can no longer count on Pedro for tons of innings. So, you need to keep the bullpen as fresh as possible, or they will break down like last year. One way to do that is to carry one more reliever. Of course, Willie could also let his best relievers rest and use his long man during blowouts, as opposed to what he did with Aaron Sele last season–if you use your top relievers during “garbage time,” you waste a good opportunity to let them rest.
As for the “7th starter,” I do think Vargas could be adequate (assuming he has options left, of course). I wouldn’t want to rely on him for the long term, but 1 or 2 spot starts would likely be acceptable.
I’d like to squeeze as much value out of Duque as a starter, and only when he gets tired or injured, promote Pelfrey from NO.
On a separate matter: two different sportswriters–Anthony DiComo and Ted Berg–over the past 48 hours have listed Burgos as an option for the bullpen. Every prior report I’d read, though, made clear he’d miss the entire season. What gives? Is Burgos’ rehab coming along more quickly than expected?
DL’uque was the best starter we had in the middle of the season and is still one of the most entertaining guys in MLB to watch pitch.
I can’t see him in the pen, he has no real experience in relief, so i don’t see him doing pen work will keep him healthy for 162 games.
lets not forget, DL’uque usually struggles early in games and gets better in the mid to late innings…
He relieved for the White Sox in 2005. Did real good in the division playoffs against the Red Sox, too.
I would be inclined to leave him as a starter myself, but I’m just saying he does have relief experience.
He only has something like 8 relief appearances during the regular season…not the type of experience I’d like to see all year long.
Actually, he made only 2 relief appearances for the White Sox in 2005 (in 24 games, he made 22 starts). Like last year, he made 24 starts and 3 relief appearances toward the end of the year.
Before we start annointing this guy as an effective reliever, we should realize he’s made only 8 relief appearances in his 9-year career (compared to 211 starts). To use the one bases loaded, no outs situation (vs. the Red Sox in ‘05 ALDS) as the only sample of his EFFECTIVENESS out of the pen is using a VERY SMALL sample size.
He may be fine out of the pen, but please, everybody stop pointing to the 1 effective inning he had 3 yrs ago.
are u the REAL armando reynoso?
“lets not forget, DL’uque usually struggles early in games and gets better in the mid to late innings…”
This is the number 1 reason why I’d leave him in the rotation — at least to start the season. If, however, lets say someone in the pen is really not pulling their weight and Pelfrey is having a fine season in AAA, then I’d have to seriously consider moving him to the pen.
We still dont have a long man… I’m not counting Sosa
Sosa is doing great in the CWS, but I’d only expect him to pitch an inning at a time…
I think Wise will get the last spot and would be the most likely to pitch more than an inning if needed. If Dirty Sanchez is healthy and pitching the 8th, I’d suspect Heilman and Sosa get the job as long man if we need it…
I suspect that our starters will make it into the fifth and beyond more times than not…I just hope they don’t leave the game with the go ahead runs on base with less than two outs like they did 4 times a week last year.
Yeah, I love Duque in the rotation, but wow we could be lights out in the 8th inning with him and Wags later in the year.
Whatever happened to that Vargas bum so many people were so high on (for what reason, I cannot discern)?
He’s still on the 40 man roster but now he is out of options. So he’s got to make the pitching staff or clear waivers to get to AAA. As bad as he was last year he could clear waivers, but as young and left handed as he is, someone will likely snap him up and make him thier long man until they too realize he has no big league talent.
Marlins rushed him and he never really improved over the dominant A-ball pitcher he was four years ago. 9 hits and 3 BB per 9 innings over his minor league career. His career AAA Era is well over 5, so expecting him to help on the big league level isnt realistic.
hmm… are we forgetting about Pelfrey?
I don’t think so–I know I am not forgetting about Pelfrey, at least. Pelfrey was rushed and needs time in AAA. I’d prefer a full season, though, of course, he will be the first pitcher called up when the Mets need a spot starter.
I just don’t see why so many folks are so hell-bent on shifting El Duque to the pen. When healthy last year, he was one of our best, and at times, THE best pitcher we had in the starting rotation. He would be, hands down, the best #5 starter in the Major Leagues. Injuries are of course a concern, but as long as he’s healthy, and if he produces close to how he did last year, then Duque NEEDS to be in the starting rotation. He completes what I believe to be one of the best rotations in the bigs: Santana, Pedro, Maine, Ollie, El Duque. That right there gives me goosebumps and I cannot wait for the season to start!!!
i still think in order to be completely comfortable as a fan we should sign 1 more starter in the event that pedro and duque are hurt at the same time (not exacly impossible), pelfrey would fill one spot and pitcher x would fill the other. im sure omar is aware and probably will wait to see who gets released or dfa’d during ST. although a 1 year deal for livan to me still woudlnt be a bad idea, you can do ALOT worse with the 5 spot we learned that last year.
I watched Colon pitch a little last night and he didn’t look too bad, just a little out of shape, but his fastball was said to be in the low 90’s
If no one picks him up, I’d say sign him to a minor league deal +an option year with big incentives if he makes the 24 man roster.
I think given time to recover, he could be good guy in the rotation
He’s still looking for guaranteed money. And more than one year. Some team will give it to him in spring training after it is revealed they have a glaring pitching hole.
I think Pelfrey will fill that important role of 6th starter. El Duque will probably miss about 10 starts and Pedro will miss a few. I expect Pelfrey to get about 15 starts. Why does Jorge Sosa get a guaranteed spot. He was pretty inconsistent. I would rather see Matt Wise or Joe Smith than Sosa. Also what about the two young bullpen guys that were drafted in the last two first rounds? Are either of them ready?
I think Sosa did a decent job as our last starter. He and Pelfrey will replace Pedro and Duque.
Its all about timing with Sosa as a starting candidate. If Sosa pitches as a starter in spring training and a need for a starter comes up in April or May then sure he is a good option, but if Sosa has been in the pen for 4 month throwing 1 inning at a time then its not really going to work.
metsfanmurph: Sosa get a spot because he cant be sent to AAA without clearing waivers. As a guy who could start or relieve for others teams he has too much value to give away, but not really enough value to trade. He’s a guy who could be moved in a package for some low ceiling minor leaguers. If the Mets find there is no room for him and say Gotay, then they would look to move them.
The Matt Wise deal is guaranteed. $1.2M. Unless he completely soils his pants in spring training, he’s going to be that sixth reliever. Chances are, one of them will be injured to start the year, or in Duaner’s case, not ready. That spot will go to Register.
Wise is guaranteed $0.75 mil on a minor league deal, or $1.2 mil if he makes the big club.
Its not much of a difference money wise, but at least they have the flexability of starting the year with him in AAA if they want to hold onto Register or someone else wins the spot.
hey everyone, im brand new to posting on this site but read metsblog.com every day…sooo pumped we got santana!!!…but i was thinking about 2009 and the FA’s available…assuming we let pedro, delgado, alou, el duque go after this season…thats about $35-37 million in payroll…which would put us at about $105 million without upgrading…jeff wilpon said they could add payroll too if need be this season…assuming they dont and stick with this team they would have 2 spots open in the rotation and 1b open (assuming nando is ready to take over in LF)….i know this is probably a pipedream and i may get slack for it, but couldnt they sign ollie to $13 mill per season, sabathia at $18 mill per and texiera for 1b at $17 mill per season…which would bring their payroll to $150-151 million….do you think they would go that high…it still doesnt exceed the luxury tax so im guessing they wouldnt be opposed to it…
It would be unreal for all of those things to happen. However, I just don’t see Sabathia leaving the Indians. I may be wrong. I also don’t see Pedro leaving the Mets. If he has a solid season, he will stay and sail into the sunset as a Met. As for Perez and Texeira, this does seem like a viable option. Does anyone know how much he is making this year with the Bravos?
He makes 12.5 mil for this year…
Can’t post URLs, so do a Google search for Cot’s Baseball Contracts…a great site
CC will be looking for Santana type money 5-7 years, 150mil
Texiera would be great, but I think the Spanks and the O’s will run his price up…Boras is his agent, so he’ll won’t be cheep, may be even over 20+mill for 8+ years.
There is also a limit on how many Type A free agents you can sign, and they would cost us a ton of draft picks
I can see Alou and Duque leaving after this year but not Pedro and Delgado. I think Pedro will get a 2-3 yr extension and Delgado a one year extension. Pedro is excited about pitching with Santana, if he can pitch in 09 and 10, he’ll do it here.
As far as Delgado, the FA market is very slim. Here’s 1B FA (on the 25 Man Roster) for the next two years:
After next season:
Nomar Garciaparra
Jason Giambi
Scott Hatteberg
Kevin Millar
Richie Sexson
Mark Teixeira
Daryle Ward
After 2009:
Ross Gload
Adam LaRoche
Dmitri Young
So unless we get Tex, our options are zero for 09 and not impressive for 2010. Maybe we can empty our farm in a few years and trade for Adrian Gonzalez, or Pujols before he goes on FA.
mets2008: keep in mind that the current roster of players the Mets control will increase quite a bit over the next few years because Wright and Reyes contracts are designed that way, and the arbitration players like Heilman, Church, Maine, etc will be getting incremental raises.
with the Santana deal the Mets are obligated to the following:
2009: $86.35 for 11 signed players + 4-5 arbitration eligables
2010: $65.5 for just 5(!) signed players (Wright, Reyes, Castillo, Beltran and Santana.) + 4 arbitration eligables
so look at that 2010 roster a bit closer before you spend 60 mil on just three players. You still have 13 roster spots to fill!
I would think that Steven Register has the inside track on the last BP spot because of his Rule 5 status.
I’m not sure about thins, I think Register needs to stay on the 40 man roster, not the 24 man roster…can anyone verify this for me?
Register must remain on the 25-man roster or be offered back to his original team.
Teams never seem to worry about giving a Rule V guy back to his old team. The reason he was available in the draft was because the Rockies didnt have room for him on thier 40 man roster. So its unlikely they will make room to take him back later in April when all teams find thier 40 man rosters very full.
If the Mets offer him back and the Rockies decline, then he can be optioned to the minors.
Matt, you’ve posted this opinion over and over, but you’ve yet to give any REASON as to why you think El Duque would be better in the pen? Let’s go over the facts again, he gave us 150 innings with a 3.7 era and a .208 BAA. However, he gave up 23 HRs in that period, not exactly stellar. So, now you want a guy who is prone to the long ball, takes a while to warm up, and needs his rest to stay healthy, to go into the bullpen where he’ll be used more often, have to warm up more often, won’t get as much rest in between starts, will be coming in with people on base (why I mention the HR tendency) and will be pitching in more stressful situations more often. Why is this helping the guy? He needs his 5 days, he should be a starter, until the postseason that is.
very good point re: homers
i think matt wise should make it and i dont think by any means that schoenwiess should have a guaranteed spot evenotho he most likely will…sosa i think will make it as well…i also feel that ruddy lugo could be a wild card in all of this…you never know what sanchez will be like…he hasnt pitched in a year and a half and his shoulder i think no has a screw in it…if hes only throwing ab 88-90…which im not sure what speed he will be throwing but if he is he may not be as near as effective as he was in 2006…only time will tell
dude, Show was VERY effective last year against lefties, which is WHY we brought him in in the first place, yet Coach Willie REFUSED to acknowledge this and threw him in there against 3 Righties in a row…the whole bullpen needs a slightly more defined role.
First off, Heilman IS the set up man until either he pitches out of it or Sancehz proves he can pitch back into it
Feliciano is the setup guy’s setup guy, 7th inning type/guys on base situation (which he was good at)
Show is the lefty specialist, ONLY (doesnt mean he NEVER pitches to righties, but im saying, he needs to be used against lefties WAY more often than not)
Register/Wise/Smith–righty “specialist”/Situational guy
Sosa–long man/situational
now OF COURSE, NOTHIGN is set in stone, it’s not like these are their roles and thats it, no bending…of course guys get tired, just “dont have it” etc…but if things are MORE defined, ESPECIALLY playig to SHow’s STRENGHTS against lefties, i think this unit will be fine, so long as the starters dont give them 5 innings a start
just an FYI, because I feel it REALLY should be noted, because if the fans can see it, why can’t management?
Show’s #’s against lefties last year, and 3 year avg.
opp. BA–.204, .306 OBP, .247 SLG
.316 .382 .574 against righties–ugh
.207 .296 .259 against lefties over the last 3 years
.295 .377 .473 against righties ove rthe last 3 yers…
USE HIM THE RIGHT WAYYYYY
I’m not sure Willie had the luxury last year of consistently limiting Schoeneweis to LOOGY status. Our starters simply didn’t get deep enough into games and the whole pen got taxed. Sele couldn’t be relied on for anything other than mop-up work or the occasional long-relief situation. Actually, I think the Mets are sufficiently sentient to know that Schoeneweis is really a lefty specialist, but how they use him is completely dependent on how the rest of the staff performs.
Sele was inconsistent because he was never used. Actually, he wasn’t inconsistent–he was bad! Sele was the long man, yet, whenever there was a blowout–whether the Mets were blowing out the other team, or getting blown out–Willie still used his main relievers. So, of course, everybody was overworked by the end of the year.
The fact remains, if Schoeneweis is ineffective against righties, he cannot be used against them–no matter how many innings the starter pitches. Obviously, nothing is set in stone–if the game is in the 16th inning, and he is the last or second to last reliever available, he can’t be used as a LOOGY. But, otherwise, Willie can’t throw him against righties, too, just because Willie feels he *should* be able to get them out. If he can’t, he can’t. Just like Wagner being unable to pitch more than 1 inning, for the most part. Just because Willie played with Goose Gossage, who often got 2 or 3 inning saves, doesn’t mean he can ignore Wagner’s career stats and throw him for more than 1 inning per game, too. If they are incompetent in a certain role, you do not use them in that role unless there is no avoiding it (like the 16 inning game scenario I mention above).
ok, yeah i didnt think about the draft picks we’d lose…and yeah im sure they wont get texiera but sabathia sure would be nice if they dont bring back pedro…if i recall i remember hearing stuff about tex wanting to play for the Os since hes from baltimore but i also heard he just bought a house in atlanta so who knows…either way a lot of money is coming off the books this offseason and there are a ton of FA’s available..
Given that multiple times last season Duque was actually LATE for starts because he was still warming up I don’t consider him a viable option for the bullpen, although in an emergency…
Texiera is going to the Yankees, no doubt in my mind
Okay i must be missing something so Matt or somebody please help me.
Mets typically take 11 pitchers to opening day. 6 spots in the bullpen are guaranteed. 5 starters. 6+5=11. Where is the one open spot?
I almost got caught on this too, but then I stopped and re-read it. Matt said, “…the Mets typically take 11 pitchers to start the season…usually they only need four starters through the first few weeks, but with the way this April’s schedule is it appears they’ll need to break camp with all five…”
The grammar is a little off – but hey, this is a blog, not a novel. There is no clear connection between taking 11 pitchers and the reason – which is, “usually they only need four starters through the first few weeks.” That needs to be one sentence in order to draw a clear connection, while discussing this April’s schedule should be next point.
So basically, he means that the Mets bullpen is 12 players except when they have a lot of days off to start the year. Or perhaps as a Mets fan you are supposed to know that there’s always a 4 person bench in the middle of the season…
Thank you
Wise is making guaranteed money. Barring injury he is making it out of spring training. Mets never cut a guaranteed contract based upon spring training performance.
He signed a split contract, so he can go to the minors and make his money there is they want to use someone else to start the season.
It is likely he will be needed on the big league roster for most of the season, but it was a nice move to sign him to a flexible contract.
Duque gives us an above above avg 5th starter (when healthy, he showed last year, he was a capable #2 starter)
Sosa is an above avg long man who has experience being stretched out. Compare him to the long-men around the league and last year having Sele. Its not even close.
This ‘pen, if healthy will be awesome. Wags will close. Heilman will assume the 8th inning role until Sanchez can prove he is back to the caliber of pitcher he was before his injury. Sanchez, Feliciano, will work 7th and parts of the 8th.
Schoenweis, should be used soley as a left-handed specialist, leaving a guy like wise or joe smith (whomever gets the last roster spot) to work the rest of those innings vs the righties.
Our whole pitching rotation as a whole i feel is in good shape. The part that I worry about is our depth, in both the rotation and the pen. The past few seasons we’ve needed it, especially in the rotation, I feel confident in Pelfrey as our first back up option but beyond that it gets ugly quickly. Believe me i love our rotation and I love it with el duque in it, I suggested in the past moving him to the bullpen if we sign another player only because he’s the only guy that really would even be an option to move. Lets find another guy that can be signed to a minor league deal as a starter, whoever that may be.
As far the shake out most teams to start the season go with 11 pitchers 12 at most only because all the pitchers are well rested and depth isn’t really needed. I’m curuios to see how our opening day roster shakes
with the 11 pitchers mentioned+8 starters that leaves 6 spots
that would be
Castro
Endy
Marlon Anderson
Easily
Gotay???
Stache???
Pagan???
Carp???
Wise or another pitcher????
Honestly with the options in the field I’d be shocked to see two of those guys make it. I actually think the best option is Stache just for his bench/lockerroom presence, not to mention his decent bat off the bench(I know that sounds like a one mr. Franco, but Stache isn’t 49, at least I don’t think he is). I see Wise or another pitcher (Smith, registrar) getting thtat last roster spot.
It’s practically guaranteed that Valentin will not be physically ready to play in the majors at the start of the season, because he will not be finished rehabbing from his broken leg. So, while he could end up on the roster at some point, it isn’t likely to be on Opening Day.
NO NO NO NO NO
Stop talking about moving Duque to the Bullpen. The guy is made of glass and pitching out of the pen puts A LOT more wear and tear on pitchers than starting where you have 4-5 days off between starts.
Just ask Ron Darling who said exactly this, this morning on 660.
you obviously didn’t really read what i was saying
Longtime lurker/reader/admirer of Metsblog, first time poster. I’ll open up with a bit of a sarcastic comment that has thus far been overlooked….since when were Pedro Feliciano and Willie Collazo right-handers? ;)
The Mets signed Wise to major league contract. They will carry a 12 man staff meaning only 5 bench guys. Wagner, Heilman, Sosa, Feliciano, Schoeneweis are locks. I’m still worried Sanchez won’t be ready. Wise will make the team too if healthy so in my mind that leaves Rincon, Register & Lugo battling for the last spot. If Sanchez is ready then say goodbye to Register and send Lugo & Rincon to New Orleans.