Comments on: Opinion: El Duque in the Bullpen http://www.metsblog.com/2008/02/07/opinion-el-duque-in-the-bullpen/ Latest Mets News, Links, Rumors and Opinion Fri, 04 Feb 2011 21:22:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: MetsFan1976 http://www.metsblog.com/2008/02/07/opinion-el-duque-in-the-bullpen/#comment-97023 MetsFan1976 Sun, 10 Feb 2008 05:24:11 +0000 http://www.metsblog.com/2008/02/07/opinion-el-duque-in-the-bullpen/#comment-97023 It's practically guaranteed that Valentin will not be physically ready to play in the majors at the start of the season, because he will not be finished rehabbing from his broken leg. So, while he could end up on the roster at some point, it isn't likely to be on Opening Day. It’s practically guaranteed that Valentin will not be physically ready to play in the majors at the start of the season, because he will not be finished rehabbing from his broken leg. So, while he could end up on the roster at some point, it isn’t likely to be on Opening Day.

]]> By: MetsFan1976 http://www.metsblog.com/2008/02/07/opinion-el-duque-in-the-bullpen/#comment-97020 MetsFan1976 Sun, 10 Feb 2008 05:13:02 +0000 http://www.metsblog.com/2008/02/07/opinion-el-duque-in-the-bullpen/#comment-97020 Sele was inconsistent because he was never used. Actually, he wasn't inconsistent--he was bad! Sele was the long man, yet, whenever there was a blowout--whether the Mets were blowing out the other team, or getting blown out--Willie still used his main relievers. So, of course, everybody was overworked by the end of the year. The fact remains, if Schoeneweis is ineffective against righties, he cannot be used against them--no matter how many innings the starter pitches. Obviously, nothing is set in stone--if the game is in the 16th inning, and he is the last or second to last reliever available, he can't be used as a LOOGY. But, otherwise, Willie can't throw him against righties, too, just because Willie feels he *should* be able to get them out. If he can't, he can't. Just like Wagner being unable to pitch more than 1 inning, for the most part. Just because Willie played with Goose Gossage, who often got 2 or 3 inning saves, doesn't mean he can ignore Wagner's career stats and throw him for more than 1 inning per game, too. If they are incompetent in a certain role, you do not use them in that role unless there is no avoiding it (like the 16 inning game scenario I mention above). Sele was inconsistent because he was never used. Actually, he wasn’t inconsistent–he was bad! Sele was the long man, yet, whenever there was a blowout–whether the Mets were blowing out the other team, or getting blown out–Willie still used his main relievers. So, of course, everybody was overworked by the end of the year.

The fact remains, if Schoeneweis is ineffective against righties, he cannot be used against them–no matter how many innings the starter pitches. Obviously, nothing is set in stone–if the game is in the 16th inning, and he is the last or second to last reliever available, he can’t be used as a LOOGY. But, otherwise, Willie can’t throw him against righties, too, just because Willie feels he *should* be able to get them out. If he can’t, he can’t. Just like Wagner being unable to pitch more than 1 inning, for the most part. Just because Willie played with Goose Gossage, who often got 2 or 3 inning saves, doesn’t mean he can ignore Wagner’s career stats and throw him for more than 1 inning per game, too. If they are incompetent in a certain role, you do not use them in that role unless there is no avoiding it (like the 16 inning game scenario I mention above).

]]> By: MetsFan1976 http://www.metsblog.com/2008/02/07/opinion-el-duque-in-the-bullpen/#comment-97018 MetsFan1976 Sun, 10 Feb 2008 04:58:23 +0000 http://www.metsblog.com/2008/02/07/opinion-el-duque-in-the-bullpen/#comment-97018 I don't think so--I know I am not forgetting about Pelfrey, at least. Pelfrey was rushed and needs time in AAA. I'd prefer a full season, though, of course, he will be the first pitcher called up when the Mets need a spot starter. I don’t think so–I know I am not forgetting about Pelfrey, at least. Pelfrey was rushed and needs time in AAA. I’d prefer a full season, though, of course, he will be the first pitcher called up when the Mets need a spot starter.

]]> By: MetsFan1976 http://www.metsblog.com/2008/02/07/opinion-el-duque-in-the-bullpen/#comment-97016 MetsFan1976 Sun, 10 Feb 2008 04:53:44 +0000 http://www.metsblog.com/2008/02/07/opinion-el-duque-in-the-bullpen/#comment-97016 I agree for the most part. Aside from Johan, the Mets have no starters likely to pitch deep into games. Maine and Ollie are capable, but various factors often lead to them throwing a lot of pitches and not lasting late into the games (Maine seems to induce a lot of foul balls, and Ollie can suddenly lose command of the strike zone). Duque, of course, is also capable, but he has to be healthy to do so. And even if he is healthy and capable, you risk injury with him if you have him throw a lot of innings. And, of course, after the surgery, you can no longer count on Pedro for tons of innings. So, you need to keep the bullpen as fresh as possible, or they will break down like last year. One way to do that is to carry one more reliever. Of course, Willie could also let his best relievers rest and use his long man during blowouts, as opposed to what he did with Aaron Sele last season--if you use your top relievers during "garbage time," you waste a good opportunity to let them rest. As for the "7th starter," I do think Vargas could be adequate (assuming he has options left, of course). I wouldn't want to rely on him for the long term, but 1 or 2 spot starts would likely be acceptable. I agree for the most part. Aside from Johan, the Mets have no starters likely to pitch deep into games. Maine and Ollie are capable, but various factors often lead to them throwing a lot of pitches and not lasting late into the games (Maine seems to induce a lot of foul balls, and Ollie can suddenly lose command of the strike zone). Duque, of course, is also capable, but he has to be healthy to do so. And even if he is healthy and capable, you risk injury with him if you have him throw a lot of innings. And, of course, after the surgery, you can no longer count on Pedro for tons of innings. So, you need to keep the bullpen as fresh as possible, or they will break down like last year. One way to do that is to carry one more reliever. Of course, Willie could also let his best relievers rest and use his long man during blowouts, as opposed to what he did with Aaron Sele last season–if you use your top relievers during “garbage time,” you waste a good opportunity to let them rest.

As for the “7th starter,” I do think Vargas could be adequate (assuming he has options left, of course). I wouldn’t want to rely on him for the long term, but 1 or 2 spot starts would likely be acceptable.

]]> By: MetsFan1976 http://www.metsblog.com/2008/02/07/opinion-el-duque-in-the-bullpen/#comment-97014 MetsFan1976 Sun, 10 Feb 2008 04:45:08 +0000 http://www.metsblog.com/2008/02/07/opinion-el-duque-in-the-bullpen/#comment-97014 Denying an established major leaguer like Heilman a spot on the MLB roster because of a poor performance in spring training is ridiculous. Spring training is where the players come to get in "game shape"--to expect them to be at the top of their game would make no sense. Sosa, on the other hand, has never been consistent, so he shouldn't be guaranteed anything. But even in his case, you make your decision based on how his stuff looks, as compared to Matt Wise and others. And, of course, you do have to consider who has options left, and who doesn't. If a pitcher cannot be sent down to AAA, you have to decide whether you want to risk losing him for nothing by trying to pass him through waivers. This is especially true if it means the Mets will be paying the majority of a player's salary to play for another team, which I believe is the case when the player is claimed off waivers (though I am not certain). Denying an established major leaguer like Heilman a spot on the MLB roster because of a poor performance in spring training is ridiculous. Spring training is where the players come to get in “game shape”–to expect them to be at the top of their game would make no sense. Sosa, on the other hand, has never been consistent, so he shouldn’t be guaranteed anything. But even in his case, you make your decision based on how his stuff looks, as compared to Matt Wise and others. And, of course, you do have to consider who has options left, and who doesn’t. If a pitcher cannot be sent down to AAA, you have to decide whether you want to risk losing him for nothing by trying to pass him through waivers. This is especially true if it means the Mets will be paying the majority of a player’s salary to play for another team, which I believe is the case when the player is claimed off waivers (though I am not certain).

]]> By: metterman http://www.metsblog.com/2008/02/07/opinion-el-duque-in-the-bullpen/#comment-96059 metterman Fri, 08 Feb 2008 00:12:38 +0000 http://www.metsblog.com/2008/02/07/opinion-el-duque-in-the-bullpen/#comment-96059 you obviously didn't really read what i was saying you obviously didn’t really read what i was saying

]]> By: CHIEFSLAPAHO75 http://www.metsblog.com/2008/02/07/opinion-el-duque-in-the-bullpen/#comment-96056 CHIEFSLAPAHO75 Thu, 07 Feb 2008 23:56:51 +0000 http://www.metsblog.com/2008/02/07/opinion-el-duque-in-the-bullpen/#comment-96056 The Mets signed Wise to major league contract. They will carry a 12 man staff meaning only 5 bench guys. Wagner, Heilman, Sosa, Feliciano, Schoeneweis are locks. I'm still worried Sanchez won't be ready. Wise will make the team too if healthy so in my mind that leaves Rincon, Register & Lugo battling for the last spot. If Sanchez is ready then say goodbye to Register and send Lugo & Rincon to New Orleans. The Mets signed Wise to major league contract. They will carry a 12 man staff meaning only 5 bench guys. Wagner, Heilman, Sosa, Feliciano, Schoeneweis are locks. I’m still worried Sanchez won’t be ready. Wise will make the team too if healthy so in my mind that leaves Rincon, Register & Lugo battling for the last spot. If Sanchez is ready then say goodbye to Register and send Lugo & Rincon to New Orleans.

]]> By: Necciai27 http://www.metsblog.com/2008/02/07/opinion-el-duque-in-the-bullpen/#comment-96034 Necciai27 Thu, 07 Feb 2008 23:17:14 +0000 http://www.metsblog.com/2008/02/07/opinion-el-duque-in-the-bullpen/#comment-96034 Longtime lurker/reader/admirer of Metsblog, first time poster. I'll open up with a bit of a sarcastic comment that has thus far been overlooked....since when were Pedro Feliciano and Willie Collazo right-handers? ;) Longtime lurker/reader/admirer of Metsblog, first time poster. I’ll open up with a bit of a sarcastic comment that has thus far been overlooked….since when were Pedro Feliciano and Willie Collazo right-handers? ;)

]]> By: hot stove chef http://www.metsblog.com/2008/02/07/opinion-el-duque-in-the-bullpen/#comment-96003 hot stove chef Thu, 07 Feb 2008 22:47:55 +0000 http://www.metsblog.com/2008/02/07/opinion-el-duque-in-the-bullpen/#comment-96003 NO NO NO NO NO Stop talking about moving Duque to the Bullpen. The guy is made of glass and pitching out of the pen puts A LOT more wear and tear on pitchers than starting where you have 4-5 days off between starts. Just ask Ron Darling who said exactly this, this morning on 660. NO NO NO NO NO

Stop talking about moving Duque to the Bullpen. The guy is made of glass and pitching out of the pen puts A LOT more wear and tear on pitchers than starting where you have 4-5 days off between starts.

Just ask Ron Darling who said exactly this, this morning on 660.

]]> By: metterman http://www.metsblog.com/2008/02/07/opinion-el-duque-in-the-bullpen/#comment-95980 metterman Thu, 07 Feb 2008 22:15:59 +0000 http://www.metsblog.com/2008/02/07/opinion-el-duque-in-the-bullpen/#comment-95980 Our whole pitching rotation as a whole i feel is in good shape. The part that I worry about is our depth, in both the rotation and the pen. The past few seasons we've needed it, especially in the rotation, I feel confident in Pelfrey as our first back up option but beyond that it gets ugly quickly. Believe me i love our rotation and I love it with el duque in it, I suggested in the past moving him to the bullpen if we sign another player only because he's the only guy that really would even be an option to move. Lets find another guy that can be signed to a minor league deal as a starter, whoever that may be. As far the shake out most teams to start the season go with 11 pitchers 12 at most only because all the pitchers are well rested and depth isn't really needed. I'm curuios to see how our opening day roster shakes with the 11 pitchers mentioned+8 starters that leaves 6 spots that would be Castro Endy Marlon Anderson Easily Gotay??? Stache??? Pagan??? Carp??? Wise or another pitcher???? Honestly with the options in the field I'd be shocked to see two of those guys make it. I actually think the best option is Stache just for his bench/lockerroom presence, not to mention his decent bat off the bench(I know that sounds like a one mr. Franco, but Stache isn't 49, at least I don't think he is). I see Wise or another pitcher (Smith, registrar) getting thtat last roster spot. Our whole pitching rotation as a whole i feel is in good shape. The part that I worry about is our depth, in both the rotation and the pen. The past few seasons we’ve needed it, especially in the rotation, I feel confident in Pelfrey as our first back up option but beyond that it gets ugly quickly. Believe me i love our rotation and I love it with el duque in it, I suggested in the past moving him to the bullpen if we sign another player only because he’s the only guy that really would even be an option to move. Lets find another guy that can be signed to a minor league deal as a starter, whoever that may be.

As far the shake out most teams to start the season go with 11 pitchers 12 at most only because all the pitchers are well rested and depth isn’t really needed. I’m curuios to see how our opening day roster shakes

with the 11 pitchers mentioned+8 starters that leaves 6 spots
that would be

Castro
Endy
Marlon Anderson
Easily
Gotay???
Stache???
Pagan???
Carp???
Wise or another pitcher????

Honestly with the options in the field I’d be shocked to see two of those guys make it. I actually think the best option is Stache just for his bench/lockerroom presence, not to mention his decent bat off the bench(I know that sounds like a one mr. Franco, but Stache isn’t 49, at least I don’t think he is). I see Wise or another pitcher (Smith, registrar) getting thtat last roster spot.

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