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During an appearance on WFAN’s Mike and the Maddog, Tigers 
manager Jim Leyland had the following to say about Johan Santana…
“Well, it didn’t bother me one bit (laughing). Actually I think we (the Tigers) beat him three times last year, we really blasted him, we beat him 1-0, 2-1 and 2-0 (laughs all around). He’s a great pitcher, he’ll be a great addition to the Mets. I think in particular, I think he has a chance to be even better (in New York) because, and is this not being critical, you got the eighth hitter and the pitcher, and that’s what worries me about Dontrelle, the eighth hitter and the ninth hitter in the AL might have 20 HR.”
To listen to Leyland’s entire interview, go to WFAN.com.
…thanks to the great Peter Wade for the link…
dontrelle gets shelled. detriot trades him to us for a bag of peanuts! i can dream cant i?
I hear Hankee fans glad that Santana is in the NL, but I would think that its worse off for the them. No other pitcher in the AL Central is going to pitch like Santana did against the Tigers and Indians. So its likely the Red Sox and Hankees are fighting for one playoff spot.
They always seem to miss the big picture dont they ?
I’m thrilled that Dontrelle and Cabrera are out of the NL. Maybe they can find a way to take Jimmy and Pat with them. Get rid of all the Met killers!
Do you think Omar is serious when he says this is the team (for now), or do you see a Lohse or Livan signing if the price is right?
If the price is right, sure.
But I doubt Lohse or Livan are taking a deal ‘For the Right Price’. As I don’t think the Mets are looking to go more then maybe a couple million/1 year for them.
I think it is basically the team, but there will likely be some minor league deals or sprint training invites to come. Hopefully some SPs to end up at AAA, and Wilson would be nice to have if he is willing to start at NoLa.
Would ot surprise me at all if the bench didn’t make it out of ST whole (either Endy or Easley could end up hurt again), and possibly one of the SPs will go down (pedro or Duque).
Actually, the only way I see a livan or Lohse is if one of th estarting 5 goes down before the season starts.
Oh, and can’t wait to see DOntrelle get battered in Beantown!
I actually hope Dontrelle and Cabrera do well in the AL. I am tired of all my AL friends (Yanks fans) saying how much better the AL is and saying it is not because of the DH. I’d love to see Willis go to Detroit and get better!! Until the World Series against the Mets of course…
I think Dontrelle is going to PO’ed that he doesn’t get to hit anymore. Maybe he can DH on his off days.
Just imagine if somehow ended up on the Mets, we’d have two of the best hitting pitchers in the league.
Omar seems pretty intent on having ElDuque start. He still has Pelfrey in the hole. Jason Vargas has major league expereince. I see Omar adding a guy who’s willing to accept a Major/Minor contract for an incentive laden contract.
The departure of Humber and Mulvey should open up spots in the AAA rotation for Mike Devaney & Bobby Parnell
“Jason Vargas has major league experience”…
sure, it’s just been a BAD EXPERIENCE.
I’m guessing the AAA rotation would be Pelfrey/Vargas/Bostick/Figueroa/Stokes with spot starts from Willie Collazo and Jose Santiago. I could see Parnell making starts if/when Pelfrey is called up, but Devaney seems to have stalled for the moment.
It would appear that both Stokes and Vargas would have to clear waivers to get to the minors, which isnt all that unlikely I suppose… Vargas being young and a lefty it wouldnt surprise me if someone grabbed him. He has never dominated above A ball, but teams will always give young lefties a shot.
Jose Santiago was resigned, so he will likely get a fair number of starts at AAA just like last year.
Hopefully Bostick moves forward out of that group and becomes the best option behind Pelfrey. We need someone of promise, not ‘well Vargas will have to do.’
I do think they need to sign one more guy, a Lawrence type who could turn into something positive if they needed him.
I’m not so sure…It could just be a smoke screen, in an effort to get a loshe/livan pitcher to lower their asking price. Omar tends to do this quite a bit
Chipper Jones mentioned that Cleveland was 5-0 vs Santana last year, here are Santana’s lines from his 6 games vs Cleveland (1 no decision):
(for a guy who went 0-5 vs a team, there are some pretty well-pitched games here).
April 24: (L, 5-3)
7 IP, 6 H, 4 ER, 7 Ks
May 17: (L, 2-0)
7 IP, 4 H, 2 ER, 11 Ks
July 28: (ND, team won 3-2)
7 IP, 4 H, 2 ER, 12 Ks
Aug 3: (L, 5-2)
6 IP, 6 H, 3 ER, 8 Ks
Aug 29: (L, 4-3)
6 IP, 10 H, 4 ER, 2 Ks
Sep 3: (L, 5-0)
6 IP, 6 H, 4 ER, 3 Ks
Your list made me think of another pitcher with an 0 and something record:
April 13 (ND, team won 3-2)
5.2 IP, 6 H, 2 ER, 2 Ks
April 20 (L 7-3)
5 IP, 4 ER, 3 Ks
April 25 (L 11-5)
3 IP, 6 ER, 1 K
May 1 (L 5-2)
6.1 IP, 3 ER, 3 Ks
May 6 (L 3-1)
5.1 IP, 3 ER, 1 K
May 12 (L 12-3)
5 IP, 4 ER, 3 Ks
At this point he was 0-5. His name is Mike Pelfrey
oops, left out hits for the most part. Anyway my point was this guy Pelfrey is not so bad.
The hits where I forgot, in order, where 6, 8, 5, 3, 8
True but I would bet the difference is pitch count. Pelfrey if I recall got into som ebig pitch counts to get those numbers which is why he could only go 5 innings most of the time.
Count me as one who is excited we still have Pelfrey because I think he’ll show flashes this year and have a season in 2009 like Maine and Perez had last year.
Dude, seriously? Look at the lines you listed for Pelfrey…
Santana’s combined #’s:
39 IP, 36 H, 43 K/9 BB, 4.39 ERA (avg close to 7 IP/start)
Pelfrey’s combined #’s:
30.1 IP, 36 H, 13 K/17 BB, 6.53 ERA (avg of 5 IP/start)
If he does that against the Phillies he will go 4-1-1 at worst.
no wonder he only won 15 games last year 0-8 against the Indians and Tigers when he should have been 4-4 or better.
http://www.metsprospectus.blogspot.com/2008/02/importance-of-strong-farm-system.html
All this talk about Oliver Perez has me pretty upset.. But it brings up a valid point, on why an organization needs a strong farm system; something the Mets don’t have. Many fans are singled minded, they have this win now mentality, without giving a crap about the future.
So the Mets just made a trade, acquiring the best pitcher in baseball, making them the favorites in the NL. What did the Mets give up? two high ceiling prospects, and two prospects that may not have that high ceiling but are capable of making an impact as soon as 2008. Yeah it was a steal, I know it, you know it, and Omar knows it. But there is a reason why the Mets were hesitant to make this deal.
The Mets now leave themselves with one of the worst farm systems in baseball, with only one player (Mike Pelfrey) ready to come to the majors in case of injury. Yeah they have Johan Santana, but they also have 59 year old El Duque, and a 36 year old Pedro Martinez coming off a serious surgery.. It’s probably more likely that these guys get hurt, then pitch an entire season.
As an organization you want to have players who are capable of filling in, something the Mets lack. If your remember in 2006, the Mets didn’t have any depth at starting pitching, and that’s why we saw Jose Lima, Jeremy Gonzalez, and Mike Pelfrey not even a year removed from college.
The Mets went from possibly having the best collection of outfield prospects (Gomez, Milledge, F-Mart) to being left with an 18 year old who won’t be ready for at least another 2 years. Leaving the major league club with a 42 year old LF in Moises Alou; who is good for a month on the DL, and a RF in Ryan Church who isn’t a sure thing. So now instead of having a Gomez or Milledge when Alou gets hurt, we have a Damion Easley/Endy Chavez platoon. Now Chavez is a great player don’t get me wrong, but I think he’s exploited as a starter, and much better used off the bench.
Free Agents after the 2008 season:
Oliver Perez
Pedro Martinez
Carlos Delgado (16 mil option)
Moises Alou (retire)
Orlando Hernandez (hopefully retires)
So The Mets will need to replace 3 starting pitchers, acquire a left fielder, and figure out what they want to do at 1B. What prospects do they have to fill these holes? Mike Pelfrey will be ready to take El Duque’s spot in the rotation, but besides that the Mets will have to trade/sign to fill these holes.
I know baseball players look role models and superstars on T.V., but in reality they’ll leave your favorite team for an extra million bucks a year. The prime example of this is Oliver Perez. This guy was a complete disaster before the Mets got their hands on him. He had a record of 3-13 with an ERA over 6, and found himself as a 26 year old pitching in AAA. The Mets got Perez, and worked hard with him. They finally got it through his mind what he had to do to be a successful pitcher, and the results showed last year as Perez won 15 games and had an ERA below 4. You think he would be greatful, but it’s just the opposite. Perez who is eligible for arbitration is holding out for $6.5 million dollars, and has already told the Mets he’s not interested in signing an extension, and wants to test the FA market.
If Perez has a year like the one he had last season, consider him gone. If Carlos Silva, and Gil Meche are getting 4-5 year deals at 10-12 mil per year, some team is going to offer this 28 year old lefty with dominate stuff a 6 year deal at 15 million per year. So the Mets will probably re-sign Pedro to a 2 year deal, and have to search for another starter, because there is nothing left in the minors to help.
The Mets will have to make a decision on if Fernando Martinez is their guy after the 2008 season. If they believe he is going to be a very good major league player, then they’ll have to sign someone to a 1-2 year deal, so Fernando Martinez can develop. If not they have to go back into that free agent market, and give some average player a long term contract he doesn’t deserve.
Then the Mets who are left with no viable options in the minors at 1B, will have to decide whether it is worth it to exercise Delgado’s 16 million dollar option, or whether to get into a bidding war with the Yankees over Teixeira.
Basically without a strong farm system, your going to find your payroll getting higher every year, while possibly not even improving your team. There is a reason teams like the Red Sox, and Yankees refused to trade for Santana, they know how important it is to develop your own players. Something the Mets need to start all over with.
The draft is where the Mets need to pickup the slack. They have 3 draft picks out of the first 33 selections, but that doesn’t mean the draft is over after those picks. A lot of great talent (Clay, Joba) fall in the later rounds due to signability issues. This has been talked about before, the Mets need to stop listening to slot reconmendations, and sign these high ceiling players.
So I’m sorry that I got into a rant, but I’m just concerned over the future of this team post-2008, because of how bad the farm system is.
…yea pretty sure nobody is going to read that.
yep, got about 1 paragraph in and gave up…
I read it five times. I have nothing better to do than read the longest blog response of the year.
Does anyone have the spark notes version?
LOL… it took 12 minutes to scroll past that on my iPhone. Now may miss the gym today. Give Loda some blog comments lessons as well as a DC metro card.
wow, hello Mr. obvious, people know this stuff man, if you want to make a point about something, make it specific, make it short, the length of that is just ridiculous.
I just checked the link, all he did was copy/paste the entire article in the comment box…
I didn’t even see the link, but that makes it more ridiculous
You kind of answered your own rant. They need to stop listening to the slotting plan and go big in the draft which the organization has openly stated they will start doing. So there is your farm system being re-built.
As for your concern of 3 pitchers leaving (let’s say without the Johan deal), would you have been happy right now with the plan being Humber and Mulvey in the rotation next year? Are you kidding me? They are nice guys but ceiling on them is back of the rotation guys according to every review of the deal you read outside of Gary Cohen, the announcer, who loves Humber. So what would you have been left with next year? Pedro, Maine, Pelfrey, Humber, Mulvey? Seriously, think about the alternative for a second. Your “Ace” would be another year older and it doesn’t sound like you have a lot of faith in him. Maine would be a good 2 but then Pelfrey is your #3 starter and 2 rookies.
The other stud we traded is an 18 year old playing in A ball. A BALL!! Were you a Mets fan during Generation K? If so, you should know how high ceiling pitchers can rip your heart out; not once but three times over. The kid could be good in 3 years but this team needed pitching today, right now.
The only part of your conversation that makes much sense is our OF prospects given our current situation. Alou will get hurt which makes Endy an everyday guy and we saw him get exposed as a starter in 07. I do think we need some OF depth and I don’t think that is Easley or Anderson. Keeping Martinez was great and hopefully he progresses this year. Milledge wore out his welcome 10 times over and just wasn’t a fit for this organization and sometimes you need to make those decisions. Gomez was fun to watch but we have a center fielder and a lot of Gomez’s 250 average or whatever it was was a bunt single every third time. Teams will catch on to that. He needs to learn to hit. Bottom Line – I would not have been comfortable with Carlos Gomez at a starting corner OF position in 2008 and I am MUCH more confident in Church in RF. The kid has a good swing, put up more doubles than any other Met last year, and is a very good defensive outfielder; certainly better than Milledge.
So this reply was longer than I thought but when criticizing the Johan deal you need to explain to me how the alternative was better pitching-wise. We have the best pitcher in baseball now. if Perez pitches great and leaves it probably means the Mets did very well in 2008. Another departure to blame on Boras. And regardless of what Perez does, I doubt anyone offers him 6 years at 15 million. He won’t be Oswalt 10 months from now.
Man, that was fun.
I’m thinking, IF he has another good year, Perez is a 5 for 60 guy (Meche was 5 for 55, Silva was 4 for 44 i think), he might squeeze out 12 mil per yr.
The OF depth is now Pagan and Johnson. Odds are not a permanent starter for 2009, but certainly viable stop gap/injury replacements for Alou if he goes down.
OFs on a s/t deal can be found to cover them until Martinez is ready. Heck, they just might give him the job next year anyway if he mashes Aa and into AAA this year.
Say Alou went down tomorrow for the season. They could go grab Mench and be in about the same place they are today.
a 2009 OF of Beltran, Church, and Chavez/Pagan would not be all that bad, and without Alou you wouldnt need as much depth…
However it highlights the need to get production out of 1B, which would make Texeira the only likely answer.
If they can find a veteran, non Type A to play LF for 1-2 years while not being as brittle as Alou, then I think 1B could become a position of ‘acceptable weakness’ just like it was during much of the Piazza years. Carp, Gotay, or someone off the scrap heap could suffice.
The thing is, they cant let both 1B and LF become positions of weakness because Brian Schneider isnt going to produce anywhere near what Piazza did.
While the Mets have improved their pitching and defense, the offense has taken a big step back over the past 2 years.
At a minimum, they need to add a righty bat with some pop off the bench. Someone that can pinch hit and backup Alou and Delgado. Maybe even start for Church against a nasty lefty. Neither Easley nor Pagan do it for me.
It’s too bad Piazza can’t field because he might fit the bill. Nady comes to mind. Any other ideas?
yeah dude, not appropriate.
Now we know that roid rage also leads to awful rant Metsblog posts.
Here’s what I got from it: Mets have the BEST pitcher in the majors, but our farm system now sucks. Forget today, let’s win tomorrow. Got it, thanks.
this is why we should play hard ball with Perez,,, so you dont want to work on an extension? So trade him why he has Value, and please sell him to other teams as being a great 15 game winner, when in fact any half way decent pitcher could win 15 games with a met lineup to generate runs. A 4 plus ERA is half way decent in my book.
Its mentioned we need a farm system? Well Im sure it could be superiorly restocked for a player like Perez.
Better plan than an 09 draft pick after Perez leaves.
what? trade Perez? what kind of craziness are Met fans brewing up now? What do we do with his rotation spot then? Are we not going for it this year? When do you trade him and again, who fills his spot? What could we even get back for him seeing as he’ll be a free agent? What exactly are you thinking?
OK, If Perez cant be locked up now, I think there are a few fourth rotation starters in the free agent market now who currently have the same level of talent as Perez with the Met line up behind them. Sign a Losh or a Livan now when we arnt as desperate for a pitcher, land em at a good price. Then trade Perez to a team that might be interested in him for some top tier 1B, C, and Pitching prospects. We can afford to take this chance now that Santana’s on board. Why would we hold Perez if he’ll be over priced next year and we wouldnt sign em anyway. Either way we’re winning the 08 series.
Perez is valuable now for his potential high ceiling, not his current average level of play. Didnt steve trachel win 15 games before we let him go? Perez is young and valuable to this team at a low salary. Not a mega salary he’ll be seeking, especially after a world series win w Perez’s level of talent w this met line up behind em he will get, or Losh or Livan could just as easily manuver.
Now Omar signs a Livan Losh type pitcher now. Pays em about the same or less than Perez gets in arbitration. Then Omar trades Perez for a superior package of prospects then what was given to land Santana.
Resulting in Perez equalling Johan plus an extra top tier prospect.
Until tomarrow evening my friends, Im out of here like yesterday.
the thing you’re missing is he’s not valuable to any team as a low cost option if he’s only at a low cost for 1 year. Why would a small market team give up prospects for 1 year of service for a guy? Basically, we’d get no one back for him, no team would be willing to give up good prospects for a guy who guarantees you nothing and will be gone by the end of the year.
Well Johan Santana was a 1 year rental too. Maybe if a threat to trade Perez will make him consider an extension at a fair rate, or maybe a trade and sign might be a better option for Perez if he’s traded to a team willing to agree to over pay for his services as it’s obvious that is not and shouldnt be an option for the Wilpons at this stage.
I think everyone knows what Johan’s problem was last year and few are acknowledging it. A lack of run production from the Twins offense is what kept his wins lower than usual. Think about the 3 games Leyland was talking about. Two 1 run games and a one 2 run games…Had he had even a slight amount of run production from his offense his record would be 18-10…and thats not even researching his other losses to other teams…I don’t usually play the what if game, but the Twins offense which was much more formidable the previous season was a letdown last year and after Castillo got traded Johna definitely lost some fire…and I can’t say I blame him.
Why does everybody presuppose that Johan can hit? Is it because on my Sony video game (MLB The Show), I fake a bunt using Johan and then jack it up the middle. Has every sports writer played me?
Because he was a OF as a kid, likes to hit and he has solid numbers in inter-league play. Never trust sports writers, though.
That reminds me that Willis won’t be swinging a stick anytime soon. And he is one of the better offensive pitchers.