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In his most recent column for Phillyburbs.com, Mike Sielski writes as spring training approaches, the Phillies, due to their dominance over the Mets in 2007, enter the season with a ‘psychological edge’ over their National League East rival.
Sielski even goes as far to suggest the Mets mental struggle against the Phillies drove them to acquire Johan Santana, writing…
“A similar force drove the Mets’ trade for Santana, for a two-time Cy Young winner, for an elite left-handed pitcher the Mets can use to counteract Chase Utley and Ryan Howard. Make no mistake: As much as their rotation required improvement, the Mets shelled out $150 million for Santana for the sake of their clubhouse’s collective confidence.”
…whoa, mike, way to jump to conclusions…first off, the Mets did not acquire santana because they are scared to face the Phillies left-handed batters…they acquired santana because they desperately needed a number one starter…however, of course, santana should do a great job neutralizing the likes of utley and howard, but this moves was not solely based on the reasons you provided…
…secondly, sir, i highly doubt, as your spin suggests, the Phillies are in the Mets heads…yes, when David Wright says the Phillies are the team to beat this year, this may imply your suggestion, but come on, mike, you know just as well as i do, wright was just saying the right thing…
…and, as you note, the Phillies did play a part in the Mets collapse down the stretch last season, by defeating them eight consecutive times, but no one, except for perhaps their own doubts got in the Mets heads last season…and, yes, the Mets do have their own demons to expel this season, but in no part does that have anything to do with the Phillies…
…lastly, what is with these philly writers of late…first, Rich Hoffman of the Philadelphia Daily News reeked of jealously with his coverage of the santana press conference, now this…
…to me it looks like perhaps the Mets are getting in the heads of Phillies fans…
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well thats definitely not matt cerrone’s writing… good writeup but you gotta proofread dude
Wow, this is great… I love it how these writers think they know it all. Such aggorgance.
arrogance*
LOL, that writer should be more concerned about Citizens Bank Park getting into their new Closer’s head (Lidge) than the Philly’s being in the Mets’ heads.
He’s right. We brought in Schneider to keep their speedsters from stealing second.
For a defending division champion they seem to be thinking an awful lot about the Mets instead of their own team and it’s own accomplishments. Whatever. Bring it on, Phillies.
good call….they are just trying to change what most writers are saying… that we now have an edge..and i’m trying not to overlook the phillies but come on…to say the Mets go Santana cause of them??
If we went out and picked up some Lefty Reliever who has sick stats against utley and howard…then yea…they might be right..
We picked up possibly the best pitcher in baseball..i’d say even if we won the division but didn’t win a world series last year we would have looked to make this move…
Philly writers are just as bad as fans
the bottom line if everything about santana was the same but he was a righty we still wouldve gotten him, so its stupid to think that we ONLY went after him bc of utley and howard.
We can crow all we want, but without doubt the Phils were inside the Mets heads last year, and given we have virtually the same cast of characters (outside of Johan, Church and Schneider) returning, I won’t believe this current collection of Mets aren’t better than the Phils until they beat them the way they did in 2006.
With that said, it’s absurd to suggest the Mets acquired Santana just because of the Phillies “mindgames.” They acquired the best pitcher in baseball because he’s the best pitcher in baseball….
What does it mean to be ‘in their heads?’
They just beat us. Actually if they WERE in the Mets heads they might have been taken more seriously.
I’ve long tohught the turning point of the season was AFTER the first Phillies September sweep….we swept Atlanta while they dropped 2 of 3, and it was just same old Phillies. The Mets never took them seriously enough to be worried when they played them again.
That’s not a good thing, but it’s not ‘in their heads.’
And regardless, what difference does it make in 2008? I’m sure the 2006 Mets were in the 2006 Phillies heads and it didn’t bother them the next seaon.
It’s amazing how much street cred Phillies fans think being handed the Division got them.
I distintively remember a wide variety of bonehead errors, baserunning gaffes, player ejections, poor starting and bullpen pitching performances, offensive tightness during those 7 consecutive losses to the Phils. That last game in Philly in particular where Randolph was so desperate to beat the team he ran his dead-arm reliever out there for two innings. If that doesn’t reek of a team having a psycological edge over you, I don’t know what does?
Willie has won everywhere he’s been, Philly wasn’t in his head. His head was filled to capacity…with everything he knows about managing.
in that case, the nationals and marlins also had a psychological edge on the met since the mets played the exact same way against them down the stretch
Corey…you are like a freaking broken record!
What does it feel like to be so obsessed with Willie Randolph? Seriously,
Roach–
I would answer your question but I am too busy taping the newest spring training pictures of Willie Randolph to the 10′ Willie shrine I have on my apartment wall.
haha! At least you have a sense of humor about it
You mean your ridiculous question? I had no choice but to laugh.
Ah…there you are.
No, i was merely trying to find answer to why the only times you ever post on this site, you complain and cry about Willie Randolph. It’s interesting. It’s like you have a complex that you just CANNOT get over. It’s very obsessive and almost stalker-ish (sp?)
I’d feel bad for you if only you weren’t such a miserable SOB all the time
this site has roaches.
Virtually the same chast of characters other than Santana, Church and Schneider? Youre missing several important people in your statement which would actually dismiss it… Duaner Sanchez, who is said to be in great shape and throwing very well is back as a lock in the bullpen. We are also minus the most unpopular Met of all time other than Armando Benitez in Mota. The man single handedly blew 5 games… Pedro played 5 games in ‘07, and was an impact to the team, though it was too little too late..Id say a season of his services, barring injury, would without a doubt propel us. Cmon on, buddy… The same team???
In other news, Mike Sielski has released a new board game for all Philly Phans. It’s a life-size board with multiple conclusions on it. After each die roll, you jump from one to the next. It’s name?
And what drove the Phillies to sign Kris Benson? Idiocy?
oh philly, philly..the small town that thinks its a big city. trust me, teams that are in mets minds these days are in this order -
– atlanta
– yankees
– my son’s t-ball team
– my niece’s softball team
– my beer league
– philly
I might say thats in the top 10 quotes from metsblog.com ever lol
Absolutely Amazing!!!!!!!!
don’t forget the A-Team…
because I pity the fool that thinks the Mets are scared of the Phillies this year…
Can we just play the games please?
Have the Philadelphia Phillies ever got in anyone’s heads in their history, ever? This is the worst franchise over 50 years old in any sport outside of the Arizona Cardinals. They have won one World Series in well over 100 years. The Cubs have more.
You are right, the Mets got Santana because they needed an ace. And the Phillies ace is….Cole Hamels? Are you kidding me?
The Mets of 2007 were more complacent than plain arrogant. The 2008 Phillies are shaping up to be the most unjustifiably arrogant team in baseball history. Congratulations on the 2007 NL East Title…when you haven’t won a playoff game since 1993 that should feel like a big deal.
For perspective, the only other teams with that distinction are the Blue Jays (who at least won the 1993 Series over this joke franchise), Royals, Pirates, Brewers, and the Expos/Nationals. Good company…congrats Philadelphia.
And we are going to beat them by 10 games minimum.
Your right about all of that but, Hamels is a superstar. Barring injury (which is possible), he will be a top 5 pitcher in baseball for the next 7 years or so imo.
The injury might come in a bar(fight) in Philly . . .
No doubt Philly is the team to beat, only because they won the division last year , and owned us outright, but they have some swollen confidence for a team that won as many playoff games as we did last year….they did make a few nice acqusitions (Feliz, Lidge) but can they seriously think we will let them dominate us again?? No f*n way…and they are so full of hate-o-rade because we have an owner and a GM , that go out and prove to us fans they are commited to winning….IN OMAR I TRUST, LETS GO METS!!
Reasons why the Phillies are signing Kris Benson…
1. They are Jealous that they could never be in the running for a top starter.
2. They want to be the NY Mets.
3. In their ballpark, they are adding another power hitter to the lineup.
OR MAYBE..
like the mets, the phillies realize that their pitching staff isn’t all that it can be and needs improvement…
Unfortunately for them they’re getting a whole lot more than they bargained for.
reason #4: the players were getting so depressed looking at the Phugly Philly women in the stands that they petitioned management to bring Anna Benson in.
reason #4: the players were getting so depressed looking at the Phugly Philly women in the stands that they petitioned management to bring Anna Benson in.
Boy, you ain’t kiddin. I have been to about 20 Phillies games over the past 4 years and it’s boozed up barhounds with mullets and soccermoms with waist high jeans, as far as the eye can see. The only time some attractive women come to that park is when the Mets come in and 80% of the stadium is Mets fans.
How bad would it be if Santana starts the home opener at Shea against the Phils and gets destroyed? Would there be anything worse than that? Sure, we would all say its a long season, but to have our newly acquired ace face the Phils for the first time since 2007 and get beat, it would be devastating. That first game could set the tone for the season.
I hate to admit it, but it’s true. Two fanbases will have a whoooole lot invested in that first start.
That would certainly be awful, but could be quickly eradicated by the Mets taking the remaining games in the series.
Seriously? Thats ridiculous. I couldnt care less if he gets beat in one game in April. Devestating? No, devastating would be Johan Santana tearing his rotator cuff. Not losing one game in April. This is an example of how we set ourselves up for disapointment all the time. Johan is awesome, but human. I think some people are expecting this guy to post like a 1.03 era and win 32 games. He is a notoriously slow starter(atleast by Johan’s standards), so dont be surprised if he looks human for a month or so. That said, I would not be surprised if he just dominated out of the gate. It really is a long season, and we showed that last year. How many days were the phillies in first? Like 5? Like a wise man named Keith always says, the cream shall rise to the top.
You read my mind…
actually, it was 2. Two days all season they were in first place. But yea, they’re the team to beat….better than the ‘98 Yankees.
Santana WILL have a bad game or two. Its inevitible. He is a man, not a machine. The sooner alot of people realize that the better, because if you expect him to come out and post an ERA under .50 youre surely setting yourself up for dissapointment. He is a great acquistiion and 2 weeks ago I was rubbing it in all the faces of my Yankee fan coworkers but you got people talking about the World Series…???… Once step at a time, fellas…
How bad would it be if Santana starts the home opener at Shea against the Phils and gets destroyed? Would there be anything worse than that? Sure, we would all say its a long season, but to have our newly acquired ace face the Phils for the first time since 2007 and get beat, it would be devastating. That first game could set the tone for the season.
It would be just as important as Jimmy “Douchebag” Rollins kicking the ball all over the field in the Mets’ home opener in 2007 turned out to be in the final standings. I.E., not very.
The papers would have some fun with it for a few days, but it’s a 162 game season.
philly’s delusions of grandeur are kind of charming, in a way. In another, more accurate way, they’re pretty pathetic.
Over-under on Anna Benson appearances on the back page of the Post fueling this rivalry? I say 5.
I’ll take the over.
totally off topic: do you guys know when single game Mets tickets will go on sale? website doesn’t seem to say, just those $5 tickets for upper deck….
2008 will not be like 2007 my Philly friends. You had your fun and day in the sun last year….ain’t gonna happen again this year.
everyone knows philly has the most classless fans in all of sports. it was a lot of fun going back and forth with them last year in the heat of the last month of baseball at shea. however, the phillies did not win the NL East. The Mets lost it. Philly just backed into it and then did nothing with it in the postseason. Typically, Philly is a failed franchise that never lives up to expectations. It took a Mets monumental collapse for them to win the Division.
Speaking of getting in people’s heads. I remember last year the classy wife-beater Brett Myers complaining how they should not sell tickets to Mets fans and allow them in Citizen’s Bank Ballpark since the majority of fans for Mets/Phils game were Met fans. Are you kidding me with that comment??? How about focusing on being a better pitcher and husband you wihite trash punk.
Ouch…
BTW, Ill be out there in Philly for the series in mid April… Philly is only 2 hrs away from Shea. I want to see ALOT of blue, orange and black out there…
pretty off topic, but I do NOT want to see blue, orange, “and black.” I just want to see blue & orange. Anybody who wears black Mets gear shouldn’t go to CBP, they should hop in a time machine and head back to 1999, when that uniform was semi-cool. I DESPISE the black unis, and any fan who perpetrates their further use should be banished.
…sorry, had to get that off my chest.
I think the only reason the Phillies are involved in our decision to go after Santana was because they happened to be the team that came in first after we stumbled at the end. Those 8 straight head to head losses hurt no dobut, but you could easily say that the Nats or the Fish had as much of a hand in knocking us out.
Bottom line we went after Santana beause the top pitcher in all of baseball was put on the trading block, albeit in a very limited and very exclusive auction. We got him to face ALL of our opponents, to make sure we secure those wins against the Pirates and Giants (take away one loss against either team where we appeared to give up after winning the series and last year would have likely ended differently), just as much as the Phillies and Braves.
They can talk all they want about how Lidge allows Myers back to the rotation but the bottom line is our staff from last year outperformed theirs over the course of the entire year and we bring back 3/5th of that staff with Pedro being at least an even replacement for Glavine and Santana heads, shoulders, entire body lengths better than the fill-in starters (Williams, Lawrence, Pelfrey) we had. Phillies fans and media have tried to belittle the Santana acquisition from the day it happened but I can’t even imagine how much they’d boast about it if they acquired a Haren, Bedard, Sabbathia type pitcher.
And can anyone tell me what Myers numbers have been as a starter? He’s got good stuff, but from my recollection, he didn’t light the world up as a starter. Seems to have a better head and better stuff for the closers role. I think they’re banking a lot more on Myers to suddenly become an ace starter than the evidence shows. Too lazy to go look at the numbers myself, but that’s what I recall.
he was definitely solid: 4.43, 5.52, 3.72, 3.91 in 193, 176, 215, and 198 IP, and a 3-1 K/BB in those last two years. No slouch. I wonder if his arm strength will be affected after a year of relief, but I bet he’ll be good more often than not.
Of course, Phils have a better record than Mets since 1962 when Mets joined MLB. And have finished with better record than NY in 6 of the last 7 seasons. But they’re second rate and the Mets are clearly far superior based on that one season where they finished ahead of the Phils this millenium.
There’s no doubt the Mets got Santana in part to change the subject from the collapse of 07, and, like it or not, the Phillies were half of that story. The Phillies may not concern the fans here (if we’re to believe them) but I’m sure the Mets themselves are not going to overlook them. The way the Phillies/Mets series played out last year you gotta believe the Mets had Phillies in their heads in 07-they kept telling us that they were gonna be fine, they were gonna dance, talk is cheap, etc and then lost how many in a row?
The bravado coming from this site would be more plausible had the Mets actually won a series or two at the end of the year, or had a good month of baseball since last May. The Mets had the better pitching last season. Maybe they will again. But the Phils still had enough to win the division.
I’m guessing the Mets collapse will stick around in the fan’s psyche for a while, so, on the plus side, just winning the division and beating the Phillies will feel much better this year than it would have been last year, yes? And why will it? Cause the Phillies are in your heads.
Hey, sportswriters get it wrong sometimes. We still laugh about the NY Post telling us the Mets had clinched the division back in mid September.
Philadelphia Phillies, 1883-2007, one world championship. Phutility.
Yes, sportswriters definitely get it wrong. Especially the ones who predicted the Phils would actually make it out of the first round.
Just as many Met fans/writers predicted better than a 2nd place finish for their side as well. I’m guessing after you all lost to St Louis you figured 07 was going to be even better. Just the nature of the biz.
Sorry Met fans, but I have to align with the Phanatic here. The Mets clearly had the superior team on paper to the Phils last year but could never beat them when it counted and then completed one of the most colossul chokejobs in MLB history.
I appreciate the bravado and I’m incredibly optimistic about 2008, but how can anyone in here have so much bravado right now?
Santana is great… but can the mets win A single game against the Phils in ‘08 before the fanbase in here treats them as second-rate? The over-the-top ego in here reeks of the Yankees inferiority complex.
fans boasting about their clubs and denigrating other clubs is part of the fun of fandom. I don’t understand how that = yankee inferiority complex.
Constanza, i have long agreed with many of your opinions, but man, i could not be more opposed to this sentiment.
Yes, give the phillies their due. Their team wanted it more….they got hot at the right moment….they are the NL East champs. But what are we as a fanbase supposed to do? Praise them? Convert? Put our tails between our legs and let them downplay our entire team, and in turn every off-season move we make?
I’m sorry, but i will continue to pound my chest and EXPECT the Mets team to return the financial investment the wilpons made and the emotional/time investment us fans have made for this team.
I definitely tip my hat to the Phillies team for 2007, but, in no way do i think they are the better team, organization, and/or fanbase. My bravado originates from this.
It’s not a question of not being proud of my team. I jut feel like this Mets team has yet to shed the image of a psychologically soft team which has honestly plagued it since it was offensively shut down in Oct. 2006.
Maybe I’m just being grumpy right now, and the back and forth is fun…. but seriously, I preferred the “taking care of business” model of the Mets and their fans to the “we’re so good we’re bored” model.
The phillies ate my lunch last year and until proven otherwise it is my opinion that the mets have nothing to brag about. And unlike last year, when we humiliated them early on but they got the last laugh, I think we’ll have to wait until the Mets are playing in October to boast.
your cherry picking blog posts. mets fans have been realistic since september. repeatedly attacking their own team until omar made the needed addition of santana.
in fact, mets fans were killing there team all of 2007 on this site (except a couple including me who had too much faith in them)
zen’s my hero he has so much faith.
for being a sucker. you have low standards.
I’d say the Phillies were about 1/15th of the reason we got Santana, not half. Additionally, last I checked, we don’t play 81 games against the Phillies – it’s only 18 or 19 games every season. And of those games, Santana may pitch at most 5 games of the 30 or 35 other starts he will make. So there goes the ‘half’ story. It’s an innaccurate and a completeley subjective representation of the Mets’ motivation to sign Santana. The signing of Santana wasn’t half about the Phillies getting into the Mets heads or any other way you want to spin a story. It was 100% about winning the World Series.
Let’s get some perspective here. Your little brother inferiority complex is rearing its head, again.
That was the most intelligent post this site has seen all year.
Seems like Met fans are spending an awful lot of time trashing the Phils and their fans.
I look forward to seeing all of you in all your Jort-wearing glory at Shea this year. I will be wearing the reigning MVP’s jersey.
All I ask if less Mortal Kombat on the PA. It’s 2008, not 1998.
er…that article was writtin by a Philadelphia baseball writer, not a fan. To that point, I have yet to see an article written by any NYC baseball writer discussing the Phillies in any way, particularly an article with very questionable presumptions and reasoning.
fallow fellow, I definitely respect that you’re always willing to hop on over here and talk subtle smack.
there’s plenty of reason for bravado. It took a historic losing streak and massive amounts of bad luck, coinciding with a hot streak and massive amounts of good luck for another team for the Mets to miss the playoffs by one game. One single game. If one ball bounced the other way, we’re not even talking to philly fans. And afterwards, our terrific GM and owner acquired the best pitcher in baseball, adding to our already great excitement over Pedro’s return. But yes: we’re aware, now, that philly has a baseball team, and they play in our division. We can’t wait to play the games.
(and not to nitpick, the millenium started in 2000.)
Actually, the millenium started in 2001. And that’s nitpicking.
nope, 2000. remember all those turn-of-the-millenium parties in 1999? Y2K, all of that? that’s because 2000 was the start of a new millenium. But yeah, I couldn’t help it, I was definitely nitpicking.
Jaimie: Mr. Bananagrabber is correct, 2001 is generally regarded as the start of the new millennium. Although the recent popular approachis often to treat 2000 as the new millennium, most historians regard 2001 as the beginning of the new millennium, since there was no year 0 according to the Western Gregorian calendar.
well, shut my mouth! apologies to mr. bananagrabber!
I’m gonna go with the popular approach for fallowfield, though.
I will go with the popular approach as well! Apologies about misspelling your name. I should proofread more carefully before I submit a post, although hopefully the typos detract from the conclusion, based on the content of my post, that I am huge nerd…
I am only kind of a nerd.
hey, typos abound around here, and while I don’t know if you’re a nerd or not, I sure didn’t know that about the gregorian calendar.
And knowing is half the battle!
OK, the Mets finished ahead of the Phillies twice in eight years. 2-6.
you’re normally so good at fact-checking, I thought you’d want to keep your rep intact.
here’s the thing…The Mets were in first place for 140 days last season. The Phillies were in first place for 4 (including the 2 days they were tied with the Mets.) The Phillies were 12-6 against the Mets, including the 8 game win streak at the end. That means that at one point, the Mets were 6-4 in the series. The Phillies won 89 games all season, INCLUDING the playoffs. Since the first time the NL played a full season in the 3 division format, 89 wins has been good enough to win the NL East exactly twice, in 2001 and last year. And in 2001, when the Braves only won 88 regular season games, they swept the Astros in the first round of the playoffs and won an additional game in the NLCS, bringing their win total for the whole year to 92. What does that tell us? Last year’s Phillies are the worst NL East Division Champ, EVER (or, at least, since the 1973 Mets, who won 88 games all told.)
So excuse us, Philly fans, if we have “bravado” for the fact that 2 years ago the Mets won 97 games, kept pretty much the same team intact, fell to 88 wins, and then added the best pitcher in baseball, while your 89 win Phillies have kept pretty much the same team intact. I don’t see them getting any better this year, while I see the Mets being markedly better.
oh and in those 18 games in which the Phillies went 12-6, the scoring differential was 88-83. Ask any statistician and they will tell you that the Phils should have gone more like 9-7 or 10-6 against the Mets. It was blind statistical luck that they played over their heads to win those extra 2-3 games that ultimately won them the division. That “should” balance out this year.
There’s no doubt the Mets got Santana in part to change the subject from the collapse of 07, and, like it or not, the Phillies were half of that story. The Phillies may not concern the fans here (if we’re to believe them) but I’m sure the Mets themselves are not going to overlook them. The way the Phillies/Mets series played out last year you gotta believe the Mets had Phillies in their heads in 07-they kept telling us that they were gonna be fine, they were gonna dance, talk is cheap, etc and then lost how many in a row?
Lets summarize 2007 baseball season and resulting offseasons.
PART I
The Phillies choke in the playoffs, lose three straight with home field advantage. They dance with glee in the sun about having beaten the Mets, puff up their chests, etc, ignoring the fact that they were bounced from the playoffs like a Spaldeen. If the Mets had done what the Phillies did in the playoffs, they’d be torn apart and ridiculed no less harshly than they were for losing the division.
PART II
The Mets choke away the division, to the most hapless organization in MLB history. They know their fanbase finds this inexcusable. They react by trading for and signing the best pitcher in baseball.
In summation:
The Phillies, a mediocre failure in 2007, signed Geoff Jenkins and Brad Lidge to “improve” their team.
The Mets, a mediocre failure one game behind the Phillies in 2007, acquire Johan Santana.
Explain to me again why the Mets look bad in this situation?
I have a feeling that the Mets would have acquired Santana even if they’d just won the World Series. Kind of hard to pass up on a deal like this no matter where you finished in the standings the year before.
the mets, phils, and braves were all mediocre last year. i personally defended the mets as they stayed in 1st place despite a poor season b/c they remanined in the lead. in the end, the phils got very hot at the right time:
phils ended the season 13-4 + 7-0 vs mets in august/september
mets ended the season 5-12 + 0-7 vs phils in aug/sept
it had nothing to do with psychology (phils in their head). it had to do with a terrible bullpen (mota, sele, no-show) and tired starters.
Phils finished the 162 game schedule with the second best record in the NL, 1 back of the ‘best’ team, Arizona, 1 ahead of the ‘best team on paper’, NY. Mediocre or balanced?
the phils played .500 ball for 6 months then on september 8 got hot. thtat’s medicore. they were swept in the 1st round of the playoffs. swept.
they were better than the mets. that’s not saying much.
can’t it be both?
Mediocre.
The Mets clearly underachieved last year and your “Phightin Phils” wanted it a little bit more. That DOES NOT make them any better, talent or roster wise.
What bothers me is that you fans are all happy and giddy “We have the reigning MVP”…”We won the division by a hair” “7/17″
You won’t find ANY mets fan happy about 2007 OR 2006 for that matter. We want a trophy and anything short of that is considered mild success (something we’re not satisfied with). Enjoy your team’s meager accomplishments and your little brother/inferiority complex…..it’s all you’ll have coming out of that city.
E-A-G-L-E-S! haha
That’s obviously not true, since many of the fans here make a big deal about the Phillies not winning their series vs Colorado, implying that the Mets first round playoff series win made their 2006 better than the Phils’ 2007.
I still don’t see where you guys get this inflated opinion of your franchise-you SHOULD be happy with 2006-your first division title in almost 20 years, a great regular season are nothing to sneeze at. You’re not the Yankees-you’ve only won 2 WS titles (only one that this geezer is old enough to remember).
Back in 86 it looked like the Mets had the makings of a dynasty. All they got after that was one division title and years of frustration. You should enjoy your good seasons when they come-they’re not guaranteed, even if you do buy/trade for the best high priced talent you can get every year.
Come on man…you seem like a smart guy, and more importantly, an avid sports fan. You’re telling me that you are satisfied with what your team did last year in the playoffs?
Maybe it’s the way NYers think, but there’s nothing sweeter than a championship and it should be a goal each and every year! If you don’t go for it, what’s the point? There’s enjoying the game and then there’s being satisfied with mediocrity.
There are no gold stars or check-plusses for effort in this game
No, I’m not satisfied, but years from now I’ll look back at 2007 as one of the good seasons.
Maybe you guys will run off enough titles to make 2006 pale in comparison, but maybe not.
I’m guessing that if not, you will look back at it with less disdain than some here pretend to do now.
Mets have won the division 5 times, so by that standard 2006 should be looked at as a success, not a disgrace.
I don’t think I could sit through all those regular season games if I thought only winning a WS would make it a good year. What fun is that? Are you telling me the Mets have provided no satisfaction to their fans since 1986?
Umm…pretty sure “Yankees Suck” chants in Shea at a Phillies game signifies a little inferiority complex on your end………
That’s pathetic.
Maybe so, but while we’re on the topic:
what’s more pathetic, ‘Yankees Suck’ chants or half of CBP filled with Mets fans with NY comes to town????
Fallow,
Ok, i will admit…there have been some satisfying years. But in the BIG picture/grand scheme of things, a ring is all that matters (maybe it’s just me).
I love the game. I love the ironies, the records, the competition. I love a trophy more. So, yes, while I am not satisfied (completely) with 2006 (or 2000), i do look back on those years with a fondness that i’m sure you feel for 2007. That doesnt change the fact they were incomplete seasons. They were good years…i want a GREAT one.
Are you old enough to remember 1986 and 1969?
If only the first one, then we’re tied in GREAT ones.
If neither, then I win!
Division title is certainly a lot better ending than most results of most seasons for either of our teams.
Fallow, pick any selective sample that makes you feel better. The total picture for the Phightin’ Phils is bleak, undeniably so. I’ll type it again because I love it soooooo much.
1883-2007 one world championship. That’s what really matters, that’s what you’re remembered for.
With love, Joe Carter
Unfortunately, i do not remember much from 1986 (only 4).
I do remember the anticipation of 2000 and 2006 and how much it SUCKED losing the way we did…..
Yeah, yeah, it really stunk following the Phils back during the Great Depression.
How many games did the Mets win from 1883 to 1961? Heckuva lot less than my team did.
At least you can’t accuse me of frontrunning!
someone missed out on an obvious point here: in 2006 the Mets were the best team in the National League. They won 97 games. They ran away with the division, almost leading wire to wire. They swept the Dodgers in the first round, and went to extra innings in Game 7 of the NLCS and lost in heartbreaking fashion to the team that eventually won the World Series.
In 2007, the Phillies were in last place for more days than they were in first place. They won 89 games all season long, including playoffs. They only made the playoffs because the team that was in first place all season completely collapsed down the stretch. They got swept by a team that got swept itself in the World Series.
How can you look at that and not see that 2006 for the Mets was a far more successful season than 2007 for the Phillies?
Ok then, how many world championships from 1962-present?
I would never accuse you of front running, and believe it or not I do enjoy your posts. They are completely sans “knuckle dragging wiccan” references, unlike those of some of your compatriots. For that I applaud you. Hooray!
The Phillies acquired Feliz, Jenkins, Durbin, and Lidge because they’re afraid of the Mets.
Let’s see how quickly the Mets get back into the Phillies heads when they see Utley, Howard and Burrell go 0-12 with 10 K’s in the first game.
Also who the hell is in the Phillies bullpen that we should fear? Lidge? The second that guy blows a game with a bomb that will put Pujol’s one to shame then we’ll see how quickly that guy’s mind snaps.
Let’s see the Mets top the Nats or Marlins or Cards in a crucial series before we get all carried away with their superiority.
record against the Nats:
Phils: 12-6
Mets: 9-9
record against the Fish:
Phils: 9-9
Mets: 11-7
record against the Cards:
Phils: 4-2
Mets: 5-2
It adds up to both teams having about an equal record against those teams.
Like I said, a ‘crucial’ series. I’m guessing the Mets record vs those teams in September were more on the right side of the dashes than the left…something like 4 and 11?
let them keep talking. get on the field, play, beat their asses… sick of the damn Philly media
I just sent this guy an email entitled:
“Do the Mets really have the Philies in their heads? If they think that, the Phils must have Rocks in theirs…”
I reminded him about the Phils’ starters AFTER Hamels and Myers.
Oh, and the play-off thing last year.
“I’m gonna prove the Phillies aren’t in the Mets’ heads by firing off angry emails to any writer who dares to think so!!!”
Hey, it wasn’t angry. It was well thought-out and I gave the Phils plenty of credit. I’m not one of those fans with my head stuck in the sand. I know the Phillies are good. They’ll be a tough opponent all year.
I just thought the writer was wrong. So I told him why.
And I thought my email title was clever and felt compelled to share it with you. :-)
Some people get too into all of this. Think about what this guy said. We shelled out 150 million for our clubhouses collective confidence. I think this has some truth to it. Whatever the Mets said, the collapse would be in their heads next year all season. He also said that we brought in a stud lefty to counter Chase Utley and Ryan Howard. Also true without a doubt. Who cares what he says anyway. Assuming both things he said are true, we now have very good clubhouse confidence, and we also have a dominant lefty to shutdown Howard and Utley. So whats the problem? Fcuk a phillie :).
I think that’s the bottom line here and I agree. I don’t get what the “outrage” is all about?
You’d think winning a division title and playing a snooze-fest playoff series against the Rockheads would be enough for them.
EastFallowfield -
I was wondering where you were during all of this anti philly talk.
Listen, we as fans cannot say a thing about the Phils last year b/c they owned us. its as simple as that.
But I think a main theme here is that while the Phils owned us down the stretch and won the division via the Mets collapse, you guys still have the forced underdog “why not us” mentality! Its pathetic
Mets went 12-15 in June.
13-14 in July.
15-13 in August (best non-Spring month of the year)
14-14 in September.
It took 4 mediocre months to make that ‘collapse’ at the end.
Go 13-14 in June and 14-13 in July, which should be a cakewalk for this talent laden squad, and all the Nationals/Marlins losses at the end are just a footnote.
trust me, all Mets fan know this…
either way, can the season start already? wheres the fast forward button
Uh, no they don’t…you can read on this very page that it was just dumb bad luck at the end of the season that cost the Mets.
Well obviously, anyone who buys into the “two weeks” idea is being rather foolish. The Mets started playing with an awful malaise from June onward.
It’s my hope that they correct that problem, because that is IMO a much larger problem than the bullpen or pitching was.
Enough talk, I’m tired of talk. Let’s get to the real action! Last season is over and afterall “yesterday don’t mean crap, because tomorrow’s the day you have to face”.
Some people get too into all of this. Think about what this guy said. We shelled out 150 million for our clubhouses collective confidence. I think this has some truth to it. Whatever the Mets said, the collapse would be in their heads next year all season. He also said that we brought in a stud lefty to counter Chase Utley and Ryan Howard. Also true without a doubt. Who cares what he says anyway. Assuming both things he said are true, we now have very good clubhouse confidence, and we also have a dominant lefty to shutdown Howard and Utley. So whats the problem?
Johan>Hamels
Pedro>Myers
Maine>Moyer
Perez>Kendrick
El Duque>Eaton
Heilman>Gordon
Wagner>Lidge
Thats all I have to say about the Phillies.
hahaha they still have flash?
The phils didn’t own the Mets last year. In the 1st half+, the Mets were leading the season series.
The 8 games was 3 series. the 1st game game was the 4th game of a series in CBP, afther the Mets TOOK THE 1ST 3!. That game, if the Mets had put it away, would have pulled the plug.
The last 7 were 2 series when the Mets were starting to suck wind (the Pen gassed, and SP erratic). Plus, the Mets still should have taken 2-3 of them (interference, laste BP meltdown, etc.).
THe Phils didn’t exactly dominate, and other than the Braves, the Mets were tanking against the other dregs like Fla and Wash.
So no ownership, real or implied.
And they got Santana to beat all the teams. Just a side benefit that he is lefty.
Agreed. Many of those sweep games, even in the early sweep at Shea, were ridiculously close, miracle victories for the Phils. And that last four at CBP? How can they really claim to have “owned” the Mets off that Aaron Rowand 30-foot single?
It was an anomaly based on a bad ‘pen and some extraordinary luck. Assuming they regress to the mean at all next year, I don’t see it happening like that again at all.
The Mets were leading the season series until they choked? Sounds like the rest of the season.
I remember the Mets calling a game due to rain in the forecast to set up their rotation for that 4 gm set in Philly. Almost as if they were in Randolph’s head.
And when he brought Wagner in for a 2 inning save, when fans of both teams know how well Wagner does in such situations, it seemed they were in Randolph’s head. If he had played it normally, maybe Wagner doesn’t blow the game.
And who’s to say if Rowand’s ball goes foul he doesn’t hit a double on a subsequent pitch?
“Extraordinary luck”–nope, just the regular breaks of the game. You remember the ones that went against you and forget the ones that didn’t. Score some runs off Adam Frickin Eaton and you don’t have to worry about swinging bunt hits.
oh come on, you honestly won’t recognize that for a team that flawed (as you said, adam eaton?!) to go 13-4 while the team they’re trying to catch goes 5-12, and winning head-to-head games by the slimmest of margins, doesn’t require crazy good luck? What are “the breaks of the game” but luck? Yes, the phils were focused, gutsy, blah blah intangible blah, but that and 1/2 an inch will get you the difference between a base hit and a pop out.
Like I said, every team gets lucky breaks for and against them throughout the season. If you want to believe that one ball that stayed fair was the only thing that lost the division for you there’s no stopping ya.
You can put an asterisk on the Phils’ division title right after you give back the 1986 title you all lucked into by the slimmest of margins, or the 1973 division crown that you didn’t deserve, etc etc.
Sorry East, bit of a straw-man there. Nobody ever said anything about the Phil’s not deserving the division crown. They won it fair and square. The argument instead is that it was not the result of consistently superior play based on having a better team. It was an upset based on luck, and not likely to be repeated. Deserve is nowhere in the equation.
Didn’t the Phillies outplay the Mets from June till September? That’s pretty consistent. And finishing ahead of the Mets make them a better team.
For a fanbase of a team that is allegedly so superior that the team that finishes ahead of them more often than not is not worth worrying about, whining about luck and bragging about almost beating the mighty Cardinals doesn’t jibe.
Again, oversimplifying. Four lucky breaks were enough to put them over the Mets by one game. One game. That’s not “significantly better”. That’s a statistically insignificant difference.
Basically, the Phils April matched our September.
Still, they played hard, they earned it, and I hope they enjoyed it. Based on the rosters going into ‘08, i don’t see it happening this year.
well put, doctor.
Keep the grandma font. I actually need it.
According to eastfallowfield.org:
” Newsflash
The township has 2 Administrative Appeals Board vacancies.
If you are interested call 610-384-7144.
Effective immediately the police station will not be staffed by an administrative assistant from the hours of 1:00 p.m. to 5:00 p.m. This position has been temporarily moved to the township office.”
Dude you seem to have alot of free time on your hands, why not help out the hometown by working on the appeals board or filling tha afternoon slot at the police station?
I’m sure there’s gravedigger openings there too.
Cool, we could work together. But it should probably be at the appeals board, not the police station, as we’d both be safer without weapons access. :-)
I think what’s happening here is that Philly fans & writers simply aren’t accustomed to the view from the top. Propping them up is akin to putting a monkey on a motorcycle – let the whole affair play out and the results should be exactly what you’d expect.
Their team won by virtue of the Mets imploding. No collective brain freeze in Flushing = no division title in Philly. How that makes the Phillies the ‘08 favorites is beyond me – Kris Benson notwithstanding – but lets do like Wright and put ‘em up on a pedestal regardless. It’ll be that much more enjoyable when they fall off.
Phils=7 division titles=Monkey on a motorcyle
Mets=5 division titlles=Skunk on a unicycle?
Phillie fans and writers have no class…Take a nod from D-Wright and show some humility and respect. All I hear is insecurity and excuses from Philadelphia. Notice how most of us on here give credit to the Phills…it would be nice if those post-season chokers who got swept by a farm team would do the same.
Instead we get told that we acquired one of the best pitchers in baseball because the Phills are “in our heads”…Based on hack writing like that I think its the other way around. Worried much, Philly?
Enjoy your one season to talk smack…although now you talentless bloggers and journalists will take credit if we win anything…without you soulless fans we would never have gone for that trade, right???
2 consecutive NL MVPs and all you have to show for it is a first round sweep…at least we made it to the final inning of the NLCS.
Troll alert!
Good Lord, now Phillie fans are citing franchise titles like some bizarro-universe Yankee fans.
I like how you refrained from providing a context, i.e., the Mets have won 5 division titles since 1962, while the Phillies have won 7 since… what, the19th century?
to be fair, it’s actually 8-5 since 1962. The Phillies had a good stretch from 1976-1983 in which they won the division 6 times, and won 1 World Series….they were basically the 90’s Braves, only for half as long.
Of course, the Mets have been to the playoffs 7 times since ‘62 (and both Wild Card teams had better records than last years Phillies), and have been to 4 World Series, winning 2 of them, while the Phils have only been to 3 Series, winning 1. So even if we’re being generous to the Phillies, we can call it a draw.
They won in 76, 77, 78, 80 and 83. That’s five.
I wasn’t counting 1981. They didn’t win the division that year, they made the playoffs in the one-shot split season deal they had that year (kinda like the first ever wild card season). Expos won the division in a playoff, so even though I’m a troll I’ll correct your number down.
you’re also forgetting 2007 haha. Good call about ‘81, I forgot they did that crazy split season thing. And kudos for calling yourself a troll….at least you recognize it (and I’ll be honest, I’ve been guilty of trolling on BeerLeaguer.com myself).
No, I was correcting the ‘6 division titles from 1977 to 1983′ mistake.
Add 1993 and 2007 to the Phillies pile.
Yup, we remember you guys talking trash early last season over at beerleaguer. And then gradually fading away as the season reached its glorious conclusion. Although a couple Met fans still had hope near the end and braved the trip over. Shame they couldn’t weight those early season months to count more to help you out.
What? Dude, you’ve been talking trash over here ever since the 2006 playoffs when the Phillies weren’t even a thought in our heads….Get over yourself….the Phils won the division last year…congrats….just enjoy it for as long as you can, cuz it will probably be your last for a while. After Cole Hamels, what do you have in that rotation? Brett Myers? Kris Benson? Jamie Moyer? Give me a break….
Yup, we remember you guys talking trash early last season over at beerleaguer. And then gradually fading away as the season reached its glorious conclusion.
I know it sounds absurd, but you have to put these things into context.
0 playoff wins = “glorious conclusion” in Philadelphia sports.
There will be a flag raising, there’s a highlight video, T shirts, that all comes with the Division Championship-that’s the conclusion I was getting at.
I believe your team celebrated its 2007 title too.
Like I said, we’re not as spoiled as the Met fans who have won so many more divisions (negative 2?) and World Series (2 vs 1) that we scoff at such things.
There will be a flag raising, there’s a highlight video, T shirts, that all comes with the Division Championship-that’s the conclusion I was getting at.
Whoa.
T-shirts? Now you’re making a persuasive argument.
OK, I give in dude. That’s what glory’s all about. Screen printing on cotton. I don’t know what I was thinking.
Personally I’d be embarrassed wearing a shirt that represented a 3-and-out in the playoffs. In fact, my girlfriend at the time bought me a “division champion” 2006 Mets shirt after the Mets choked to the Cardinals, and while it was a thoughtful gesture, I couldn’t bring myself to wear it outside of the house. I was at game 7. Too many bad memories.
But then when I think about it some more I realize that we’re talking about Philadelphia. 3 and out = glory. And T-shirts!
Choo-choo,
Guess you weren’t aware that the divisions were created in 1969, so NO teams won any until then.
That’s the context I didn’t provide, thought everyone knew that.
This is true, EastFallowfield, but hardly the point. The principle on my part and the lack of context on yours still apply.
Huh?
Didn’t know I had to give you a lesson in baseball history each time I post.
So, to provide context, I’ll have to start here:
Baseball is a bat-and-ball sport played between two teams of nine players each. The goal of baseball is to score runs by hitting a thrown ball with a bat and touching a series of four markers called bases arranged at the corners of a ninety-foot square, or diamond. Players on one team (the offense) take turns hitting while the other team (the defense) tries to stop them from scoring runs by getting hitters out in any of several ways. A player on offense can stop at any of the bases and hope to score on a teammate’s hit. The teams switch between offense and defense whenever the team on defense gets three outs. One turn on offense for each team constitutes an inning; nine innings make up a professional game. The team with the most runs at the end of the game wins.
Is that better?
The Phillies still suck. No amount of baseball trivia that anyone can look up on the internet in seconds changes that. Again, enjoy being able to gloat…it won’t last long. Not like it mattered anyway…what with the Phills getting swept with home field advantage and the league MVP on the roster.
Of course, thats a whole other story…because Matt was a better player and actually showed up in the play offs, unlike J-Roll…of course, Coors is a hitters park (despite the drastic drop in home runs since adding the humidor) and CBP is not…according to a lot of the same writers who are in the mets’ heads and voted for the MVP….
JRoll is still in the Mets’ head? You guys really showed him by the way you showed up vs Washington!
You are right. J-Roll got into the heads of the Mets and backed up all the trash he talked…
Too bad he and the rest of the Phillies forgot about the rest of the NL the second the play offs started.
Why don’t you cite the stats for post season wins since 2000 for both teams? Oh right, your team doesn’t have any…
Wow what a pair these phillies fans have on them, especially from a team that hasn’t won a playoff game in 14 years. I don’t see any articles on the Phillies from New York writers. Must be the fact that the Phillies aren’t relevant enough to waste the paper writing about them. But as usual the Mets are in the heads of the Phillies writers and fans. We can all go back and forth but a one game division win is all they can and will be able to hang their hat on for the near future and no amount of whining and chest thumping will change that.
The writer of this article responded to my e-mail to him .Here it is.
Thanks for the note and the feedback. Just one quick point about the Santana trade: I didn’t suggest that the Mets acquired Santana specifically to combat the Phillies’ left-handed hitters, particularly Howard and Utley. Obviously, they needed a No. 1 starter. But Omar Minaya and Willie Randolph would be lying if they said it didn’t matter to them that lefties batted .197 against Santana last season.
Take care,
Mike
Must have Met fans in his head.lol
I think it’s all true in all combinations. Of the 3 top teams, Mets, Braves, Phillies, I could guess that we are in their heads, they are in our heads and we are in our own heads and they are in each other’s own heads, because think about it – we collapsed, they beat us a bunch, they won the division or we lost the division – either way. The Braves won the division so many times and are still in our heads. The Braves also have doubts about themselves after losing twice consecutively. And the Phillies as perenial losers of course have their doubts especially after really only getting the chance to be swept by the Rockies because of our collapse. Well, I’ll amend that to say that they played great ball down the stretch, but if we played even so-so ball, they would have been left out in the lurch. That said, today is Pitchers-Catchers day for the Mets and all of the teams, even the Marlins and Nats have some hopes (the Marlins some new young prospects and the Nats a new stadium and Lastings Milledge).
LETS GO METS!
it is obvious that not a single person here read the article that is being talked about including mike nichols(the guy who made this post).
when the philly writer sielski made that statement about “a similar force drove the mets to trade for santana” he was not talking about the phillies dominance over the mets last year, he was talking about how the mets were stuggling to get over a hump with their team in a similar way that all philly teams can’t get over a hump and win a championship. please somebody read the article. and Cerrone, if you are going to allow these guys to start posts on this site it should be a requirement that they read the articles they are referencing and not just picking a random quite in it and making assumptions about them.
quote*
“…and it’s worth noting and enjoying for a little while.”
emphasis on little.