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In his latest for SI.com, Jon Heyman ranks Omar Minaya as the 8th best general manager in baseball, saying…
“His brilliant 2006 season in which he pilfered Oliver Perez from the Pirates and John Maine from the Orioles, two teams that could have used their services, was followed by a 2007 that featured some costly mistakes — trading Heath Bell, Brian Bannister and Matt Lindstrom and getting practically nothing for them in the offseason, and then doing little to help prevent a late-season collapse that left the Mets one game short.”
…i think it’s a pretty fair ranking…there’s no doubt in my mind that, even before acquiring Johan Santana, minaya had been far more good than bad while turning the Mets into contenders…
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Only 8th!?!? What a @#$%ING BUM!!! Fire Omar and Willie and everyone else too!!!!!!!!!!!!1
Wait…aren’t we still doing that??
I actually think one of Omar’s best moves happened last year — not signing Zito to an even bigger contract then he signed with the Giants. The Mets were desperate for a pitcher for the front of the rotation but Omar recognized that that Zito was a number 2 pitcher and that he was going to be way overpaid. Sure, the Mets would of been a better team, but I wonder if they had signed Zito if they would of been in the position to sign Santana. They are a much better team with Santana, both on the field and in the payroll since Santana is more likely to earn his money then Zito.
Bannister would have been a great fit
But we have not seen our side of the deal yet
It may still pan out
Please remember that Bannister had a Strikeout to Walk ratio of:
19 to 22 in 2006
77 to 44 in 2007
Face it. He may be a nice guy and an underdog, but he’s not that good. He was very very lucky to put up decent numbers last year. You can’t have a K/BB ratio and be successful.
He has a dreadful season coming up this year. I would peg him for a +5.50 ERA and a WHIP +1.50 in 2008.
I know Number41 wasn’t saying much about Bannister besides he may have been a good fit, but I am sick and tired of reading and hearing writers and Mets fans blast Omar over trading a 27 year old journeyman pitcher.
Same with Heath Bell, Bell stunk as a Met to the tune of a +5.00 ERA and many many walks in his time in Flushing.
Journeyman? First off, Bannister was 25 when he was traded. Prior to that he spent a little over 2 years in the minors and 1 in the bigs/DL. He also went to college, so his total professional service to date is barely 5 years. Hardly a journeyman.
With Bannister as added depth in the rotation last year, perhaps the season turns out differently. I’m not going to project what his 12 wins or 3.87ERA would have translated to in the NL, but if it’s close, than we certainly could have used those services. And certainly more than the services of Brian Lawrence, Jason Vargas, or the Phillip Humber experiment down the stretch.
It was a horrible trade at the time, and even worse in retrospect.
As for Heath Bell…the guy just couldn’t pitch in NY nor could he find a rhythem. He stated this many times, and feels SD is the refresh button he needed. His numbers speak for themselves.
and the k to walk ratio you state proves that perhaps he is improving.
Danny, going from 19:22 to 77:44 isn’t what I would call an improvement, it’s better, but not by much.
And I should have said “future journeyman”. Bannister, in my opinon isn’t much more than a 5th/6th starting pitcher.
I think ravi3 said this as well, Omar was dealing from strength with Bannister. The Mets have a whole clutch of SPs, Sosa, Vargas, Pelf and they had Humber too last year and don’t forget Dave Williams and Brian Lawrence.
Now, none of these guys are great, obviously, but the point is that Bannister had a shot, showed very little and a 23 year old that has 20 careers ML saves and a 100+ mph fastball was available. I would have made that same deal 10 times out of 10.
Funny how that in anyother profession, an improvement like that would get you a raise and a promotion.
I don’t know, man. Maybe I on too much of the Bannister Koolaid, but I honestly wasn’t surprised by his performance last year (minus that fact that he pulled it off in KC). When that trade went down, I knew that it would come back to haunt Omar. I talk about BB’s pedigree/etc. elsewhere on this thread, so I won’t repeat it. But I will say that I will always have an issue in trading a smart and tested rotation arm for an unknown bullpen project.
And another thing…a misconception is that Bannister is a 4-5 man. He was actually a 3 last year. He will be a 2 most likely this year.
I recall him barely making it past the 5th inning in 2006. Looking at his 2007 gamelogs, he routinely went into the 7th inning. That is an improvement as well. I just don’t see this guy crashing in 2008.
Regardless, I guess my overall point is that it was a horrible trade in respect to last year, b/c Bannister and his 150+ innings would have helped. He was traded for a risk to help fill the bullpen, a need that wouldn’t had been necessary if Omar would have simply gave Bradford his money (Omar’s 2nd worst move in his tenure).
So, as a result of this deal, we lose a starter and a bullpen spot that we were counting on….and it just so happens that our rotation and pen run out of gas in September. hmmm…..
As for the future, I think the page has turned. Our rotation in 2008 would be no better with Bannister, so I am past it. Johan is to credit for that one.
It is kind of not fair to penalize him for the Bell/Lindstrom/Bannister deals….Bell had not performed anywhere close to expectation, AND struggled to stay in shape while he was up here…Obviously, he needed a change of scenery. Lindstrom was not all that impressive with the Marlins.
As for the Bannister deal, yes he performed well, but Omar was dealing from a strength at the time to improve the ‘pen. If Heyman has an issue with that, how can he gloss over Epstein’s trade of Bronson Arroyo for Wily Mo Pena? Arroyo was a better talen when he was dealt, and the Sox had many pitching injuries that year, and Pena didn’t do anything for them either. (not saying that Epstein should be moved down on the list, but the deal should at least be discussed)
Bell, Ring, Lindstrom, Owens, Bannister, and Flores were all lost within a one month span and nothing the Mets received in return has yet to yield any results and there was no pressing need to move any of those guys. There is really no excuse for that.
I’m in quasi-agreement on the latter four, but Bell and Ring had plenty of opportunities to prove themselves at the big league level for the Mets, but time and again they proved themselves to be AAAA level pitchers on the New York stage.
Flores also just finished A ball..There were other players that needed to be protected. Who would think that the Nats would keep a player who is so green on the big league roster all year? Soory to be a huge homer here, but I am just trying to play devil’s advocate here…Its easy to criticize a deal in hindsight, but I think its better to understand the logic behind the deal, and judge based on that
Exactly ravi3,
Flores was a single A catcher, who would ever think a team, even one as bad as the Nats, would keep a 21 year old catcher that is nowhere near ML ready on the roster all year.
It’s pretty clear that the Nats decided they could afford to carry Flores purely as a future investment – it’s also pretty obvious that they have every intention of letting him develop in the minors this year now that they have secured the rights to him.
Props to them as well. They saw an opportunity and took it. It’s not like they had anything to lose last year.
At least we didn’t lose a piece we needed for the Santana trade :)
bring back junior ortiz!!!
Bannister isnt very good. I wouldnt be even a bit surprised to see a 5.00 era this year from him. San Diego is known for taking other people’s junk relief arms and having them thrive in Petko. Owens and Lindstom are both like 29 year old career minor leaguers, they both throw hard, but not much else. When you look back in hindsight, sure you can criticize these moves, but if the worst thing you can say about Minaya during his tenure with the Mets is that he traded away Matt Lindstrom, Henry Owens and Heath Bell, it means he has done a nice job. The Flores arguement is silly, to put it nicely. Are you even aware of the circumstances in which he was lost? The Mets chose not to protect him, because the thought of a 20 year old catcher with zero experience above A-Ball spending an entire season on a Major league 25 man roster seems pretty silly. The Nats just happened to be so awful that they could afford to do this. It worked out really well for them no doubt, but seriously, would you expect a guy that never played above A-Ball, that is a catcher and only 20 year old at the time, to spend an entire season on a major league roster?
In NY we tend to rate our GMs based on the big moves they make. The big ones have been pretty decent on Omar’s side: Pedro, the Carloses, and now Santana. The smaller moves have been not so great (though I’d consider Maine and Ollie smaller, so they haven’t been awful.)
Heyman is right to point out the Bannister and Bell trades, especially. There really was no excuse to let go of pitching — young pitching at that — and get so little in return.
Lindstrom wasn’t all that young- he had taken time off to complete a Mormon mission, and is in his late 20’s…
Either way, in that deal, they acquired two guys who were both younger, and lefties, for two players that ultimately had no spot in the Met pen. Obviously looking back at the rash of injuries the team had with relievers, as well as the overuse of the pen, this deal can be critized, but of course, hindsight is 20-20.
Same thing with the Bell trade, at least in regards to why he was moved…I wasn’t thrilled with what they got back though/
I didn’t mind the Bannister trade, however. The guy always pitches with guys on base, and while he was able to navigate his way through jams, once the league has a good look at you, those high wire acts get a biiit tougher. Yes he had some success with KC (the kid does have a great head on his shoulders, so I don’t think he would fold under the pressure), but I don’t think he’ll be able to keep it up.
Plus, Burgos is a great talent, if they can reel him in a bit, so I did, and still do, agree with this trade.
You’ll notice I didn’t mention the Lindstrom deal in my note. As for Bell and Bannister, nobody is saying they were sure things, but it seems, especially in the case of Bannister, we sold for very little. Burgos has a terrible track record, while Bannister’s was good. He pitched in a lot of trouble with the Mets, but his minor league numbers showed that he didn’t.
Look, nobody is saying that he was going to be Tom Seaver, but young cheap pitching, especially starting pitching, is an incredibly valuable commodity, and Omar dealt it for an erratic relief pitcher. That’s just not a good trade, even if Bannister never repeats this past year’d performance.
The thing with Burgos was that he was rushed up to the bigs, and never had proper coaching. Omar has an eye for that type of player, and my faith is still with him…Its too early to fairly evauate this deal though.
I did notice you didn’t mention Lindstrom, but that was after I typed the whole passage about him, and frankly I’m stubborn so I wasn’t going to take it out lol
Good for you!!!! lol!
Anyway, let the games begin!!!
Burgos was a classic Omar move – high risk, high potential reward.
He took a hard throwing kid who was rushed by a small market team to see what The Jacket can do with him. Don’t forget, he spent a lot of last season injured, so we’ve yet to see how he works out. There’s still the possibility he could end up replacing Wagner, in the best possible case – it’s still too early to really pass judgement on that trade.
I honestly cant believe some of the garbage people post here. Bannister is a number 5, maybe , maybe a number 4 guy, that is his absolute upside. Burgos has a horrible track record? Yeah, because he was 21 when we got him and had no business pitching above AA. This guy can reach triple digits and has filthy stuff, while Bannister was a 25 year old minor league pitcher posting decent numbers. I wouldnt even consider taking this trade back. Like Ravi said, we got 2 young left handed starting pitchers for Lindstrom and Owens, 2 career minor leaguers in their late 20’s. I bet tidewater was one fo those guys complaining that we traded away Xavier Nady for a young erratic left handed pitcher back in 2006. And comparing this trade to Kazmir’s, is literally one of the worst camparisons ever. Comparing Bannister and KAzmir is like comparing John Garland to Johan Santana.
You are in the minority as most Mets fans as well as most respected baseball writers have called the Bannister trade a mistake and would reverse it in a second if they could.
Burgos had a great fastball (and I say “had” because he may not have it anymore) but he had lousy control and the pitching IQ of a snail. He wold air it out on the first day of spring training instead of working up to a point where he could throw full throttle. It’s no wonder he needed TJ surgery.
As for Bannister, many tabbed him for a middle of the rotation starter, and if they had had him last year, the Mets may not have missed the playoffs considering the lousy replacements they had (Park, Williams, Lawrence). Bannister’s upside is yet to be seen.
I may be in the minority, but I really liked what I saw from Bannister in 2006. The guy battled and earned the rotation spot in ST and pitched his ass off in the regular season. He even proved well at the plate. What more could one ask from a rookie?
Another thing…Bannister has the MLB pedigree from his dad. He clearly has a strong head on his shoulders. You don’t trade smart and proven Rotation arms for a high risk bullpen project. That deal was horrible.
But in retrospect, with Bannister on this team now, perhaps Johan doesn’t even happen. Who knows?
nrmax88:
No, I recognized trading Nady was out of necessity. I also recognize that leftfielders who hit .275 with 20 HRs are not hard to replace, like say, young cheap starting pitchers. Trading starters for relievers is foolish in my opinion, unless you’re getting a tried and true bullpen guy which Burgos was not. ALSO, yes Burgos has (or had, we’ll see) a power arm, as do Lindstrom and Owens. Those trades were all to get younger, but not one of them made us better. It’s one thing if you’re trading a 31 or 32 year old to get younger, but trading a starter in his mid twenties for a reliever in his young 20s, the youth of the trade makes no sense. Also, he made these weird trades where he traded starters for relievers and then relievers for starters when he could have kept all of his pieces, all in their twenties in tact.
I have no problem with trading away players. I would have had no problem trading Kazmir for Zambrano had it been Carlos Zambrano! Young players are of a premium. Young pitching especially. I understand many trades. I did not understand the Bannister one.
Burgos for Bannister is looking pretty Kazmir-esque at the moment. A promising young pitcher who goes on to flourish in the AL for a mediocre pitcher who goes on to get hurt and miss a large amount of playing time. Yikes.
This is a little ridiculous.
Really? Care to elaborate, or is that your argument?
Kazmir 2007: 13-9 3.48 ERA
Bannister 2007: 12-9 3.87 ERA
Keep in mind this was Bannister’s first full season.
Not to mention the fact that, instead of a starting pitcher, we received an ineffective and eventually badly injured relief pitcher as compensation.
The difference is that Kazmir put up those numbers facing the Yanks, Sox, Orioles and Blue Jays last year, all of whom were among the top 10 in runs scored, with the Yanks and Sox at 1 and 3
Bannister did face the Tigers and Indians, who were also top 10 in runs scored (ranked 3/6), but don’t forget the White Sox and Twins, who were last, and 3rd to last respectively, in runs scored.
Metzelaar, you are going to quote two of the most meaningless pitching stats to quote how ’similar’ Bannister and Kazmir are?
Wins are 100% dependent on the team the pitcher has behind him. (see Trachsel, Steve 2006 and 15 wins)
ERA is better, but still there is lots of influence from the other 8 guys on the field. Yes it takes errors out of the mix, but what about the plays that a better OF with more range could make etc.
If you want to analyze pitchers, look at Strikeout to Walk ratio (Bannister’s stinks), look at WHIP (Bannister’s was pretty good last year and of course look at Ks (Kazmir vs Bannister is a total no contest in this respect).
So Kazmir vs. Bannister? Kazmir is one of the top 15 pitchers in the AL. Bannister, not even in the top 75, imho.
Not in the top 75? How is that even possible?
14 AL teams X 5 pitchers in each rotation = 70 starting pitchers. So what you’re saying is, he’s worse than every starting pitcher in the AL, as well as a handful of relievers. With a 3.84 ERA. Interesting.
And while I will agree that wins is a meaningless statistic, I think the fact that he posted 12 with one of the worst teams in baseball is fairly indicative of his ability, especially pitching in the AL, albeit not against the same caliber of teams at the D-Rays.
I’m not calling the trade a repeat of the Kazmir trade. I’m saying that it strikes me as being awfully similar. There’s no question Kazmir is a better pitcher. But in both cases we traded a young arm who prospered in the AL on bad teams, for a pitcher who never did anything remarkable, pitched mediocre in his time here, and went on to get hurt. You don’t see any parallels there?
Kazmir was considered a slam dunk prospect/ future ace by most scouts. Bannister wasn’t. That’s a huge difference when you consider the deals.
Yes, Bannister was never and never will be Kazmir. That is a foolish thing to say.
Tell me where I said that Brian Bannister was Scott Kazmir. No, really, point out where I said that.
The TRADE (TRADE TRADE TRADE TRADE, for people who like to overlook words) was similar. And don’t act like some kind of prophet, spewing garbage like you know what will happen. Brian Bannister has pitched one full season so far, and a good one at that. How can you say, with a sense of absolute certainty, that Brian Bannister will not turn out to be a very good pitcher in the future?
Some of you people ridiculous.
No, you didn’t say “the trade” you said Banniset for Burgos was looking Kazmir-esque. If all you mean is it looks like a bad trade, fine, but when you bring up Kazmir, you are bringing up something that has a very specific meaning to Mets fans — that is giving up a first round draft pick, a left handed 20 year old power pitcher, for a not-very-impressive not very accomplished pitcher. Yes the Bannisetr trade was Kazmir-esque in that it was bad, but if you don’t want Mets fans reacting to a scab being picked, then don’t pick the scab! Instead say, the Bannister trade looks pretty bad.
Bannister FOR Burgos. There’s a word for what happens when you swap two things: trade.
As a Met fan, I’m well aware of how sensitive an issue the Kazmir trade was. I’m also aware that the Kazmir deal is synonymous with a bad deal. So when I say that the trade is Kazmir-ESQUE, what I’m saying is that the trade has shades of being pretty terrible. Which it does. I don’t see how anybody could deny that.
So let’s recap:
-I’m not saying Bannister is Kazmir
-I’m not saying Bannister is as good as Kazmir
-I’m not saying the trades were just as terrible
-I am saying, though, that they were both similar in terms of what we got in return, and that they were both bad.
Why do I have to spoon-feed this to everybody?
What about resigning Mota AFTER it came out he as juicing? Arguably one of his most bone-headed “WTF?!” moves.
Yes, but you’re forgetting how good Mota was last year… oh, wait… nevermind.
And the trade to get rid of Mota was genius.
No it wasn’t. Thats like purposely starting a fire to burn down a populated building, then running in to save someone and being proclaimed a hero. Yeah it was a good move, but all he did was clean up a stupid move that should never have been done to begin with.
I’d call it a wash,…but with dirty water.
Plus, we released the guy we got for him, and then traded Milledge to replace the guy we released!!!
That’s not true.
We traded Milledge for Schneider/Church, already having Estrada. With three catchers on the roster, it was clear we needed to get rid of one, and that guy eventually turned out to be Estrada. We didn’t trade Milledge to replace Estrada.
Hey, we got rid of Mota who at the time was an albatross hanging around smelling of fish (stinking the place up anyways).
Anything we got in return was gravy!
Off the top of my head, that was the worst move Mets brass had made since the Kazmir trade.
Take the steroids factor out of the equation, I would have dumped him for just his stupidity alone. It was Mota that allowed the first domino to fall against us in the NLCS. If only he would have just thrown the low outside changeup to Spezio that Loduca originally called for….
Moto always showed a minimal level of intelligence and integrity, and Minaya should have known better to take that risk.
You gotta admit that it was kinda boneheaded of Lo Duca to let him shake off the changeup. He should never have offered the fastball – then Mota can’t agree to it.
Honestly…I’d rather not re-hash this incident.
My bad for bringing it up. I will now do 50 push ups.
Well, in Omar singing Johan, that pretty much insulates him from getting fired after 2008 if the Mets underperform. It is all on Willie’s shoulders now. If he can’t get them to the promised land with this team as it stands, then Willie will not be opening day manager when Citifield opens, unless he is hired by the team they play against that day.
then it will be Bobby V’s Super Terrific Happy Hour time at Citifield in 2009.
One can only hope.
Put Manny’s name on the door now…
I think you have to factor in the market too. A lot of people would likely move Omar higher up this list, since the big moves have, for the most part, been successful. But, I can’t simply rave about Omar for being granted the money to land Pedro and Beltran, etc… While there was some convincing to do on his part, credit has to go to the Wilpon’s as well for spending.
That being said, I wanted Minaya as GM back when Duquette was hired, and I do think that he’s been extremely successful and a critical part of building the contender we have today. So, hats off to Omar for putting this team in a position to be successful, now let’s hope the players do their part.
Think about this—If they brought on Minaya instead of offering him a co-gm role with the Duke, then Vlad Guerrero (that was the year he was a free agent) more than likely ends up as the Met RF’er…We’d still have Kazmir, but probably not Beltran…Who knows about Pedro. Either way, we’d prolly have a very different team than now
how is brian cashman anywhere near the top? recently he’s been doing a good job with the young players, but when you can spend money that recklessly you don’t deserve praise for anything. any other team would’ve fired their GMs over some of the stuff he’s done, but there are no serious financial consequences for the yankees when they make a terrible signing.
I’d like to know how many of those bad signings were really Stein’s doing as opposed to Cashman’s. Either way, Cashman should be no where near this list. He spends $2M per regular season win.
Read that last sentence back to yourself. It’s becomes more and more mindboggling everytime.
my guess danny is 90% stein
btw ya want some baked beans with your ribs??
is Rusty’s even open anymore? I knew it was big back in the day, but would be surprised if the doors were still open (I now live in Chicago).
Being rated #8 seems fair…for now. Omar really cannot be rated higher than 5 since he has nothing to show for since he came aboard outside of an NL East championship team in 2006 that spit the bit.
I really hope that Omar’s Caribbean pipeline pays dividends within the next few years now that the farm system is close to barren, or he will be nothing more than a charlatan as far as his “scouting and development” platform goes.
When they win WS Championships like the Red Sox have, and compete at or close to that level consistently year-in, year-out, then he can hang with Epstein towards the top.
But let’s get one first. It’s been 22 friggin’ years already.
Almar, I agree 8 seems fair. But also, to be fair, you point out that he has only one NL East title to show, but think about the mess this team was when he came in. They were horrible. One point I always bring up in these sort of discussions is that in 2003, there was a situation where the Mets offered Henry Blanco, an extra year at a higher annual salary then any other offer he got, and he still rejected it. Henry effing Blanco. It has gotten to a point where Omar has gotten this franchise to a position where the stars want to play here, as evidenced by Santana, Pedro, Beltran, etc. Interesting how we didnt hear any of this “Omar only trades for Latino’s” garbage after the Johan trade.
SOME OF THE VALUE CAN NOT BE DETERMINED BY LOOKING ABOUT TRADES. Some of Minaya’s value is in his ability to attract star Latin American players to the franchise and to entise them to be committed members of the franchise, not just the team. How do you judge that type of value in this type of assessment?
I’m a big BIG Omar fan, but don’t you think that some of that ability to entice players was a result of typically offering more money/years than the competition was willing? Pedro and Beltran are examples 1 and 1A
And his inability to do so with Delgado, who said he was offended by the latin act, proves that the latin connection is likely way overrated.
I think there is something to that. Still, there is also to being able to go to the Dominican and talk the same language and understand the culture a bit more. I mean look at our team now! All but one player in our rotation is Latin A….our infield except wright is L.A, Our outfield except church, our pen is about 50/50 depending how it shakes outand guys like Valantin are hovering around for a chance to make the bench. Is it just coincidence? Do you nopt think these guys want to come/ stay here when traded because of Minaya and what he is building?
Right -I’m not saying he is total dunce, but he definitely has put his money where his mouth is (sorry for the cheesy pun…its just too easy to resist…maybe its from reading NY Sports headlines in all the area papers..)
uh kali no disrespect but puerto rico @ the dr technicaly can’t be considered latin america they are carribian and lets not forget puerto rico is a american commonwealth which makes carlos y carlos jose valentin etc citizens of the usa
The non-trade stuff? Mostly positive– see international signings, bolstering of Dominican academy in wake of Pedro signing– but there is the whole draft-slot thing, as well. (More of a Wilpon-led charge, but… well… that kind of good citizenship kneecaps us, talent-wise, over the last 2-3 years.)
Wouldn’t a good place to start judging his performance be by first measuring him against his predecessor?
By that I mean, has he improved the team beyond what it was when he took over. As it was said, he moves have been more good than bad. But when he makes a bad one…yikes!!
I think he’s done a better job than Steve Phillips and he hasn’t been suspended for being extra nice with the help.
Omar has restored the team to respectability. Pure and simple. And for that, he deserves considerable credit, even if some of the criticisms above are valid. More and more, we hear about players who actually want to play in Queens. Alou, for one, took a shorter contract to play at Shea. Santana, too, may have favored the Mets from the get-go.
Josh Byrnes (Diamondbacks) is badly underrated. Ditto to Kevin Towers (Padres). Rating Pat Gillick over them is utter nonsense (in fact, rating Gillick over Minaya and Dan O’Dowd is also utter nonsense). I also fail to see why Kenny Williams (White Sox) even makes the top ten. I mean, yeah, there was 2005, but his drafts have been abominable. And his international FA signings have not worked out. Baseball America said he had the worst farm system in Major League Baseball before the Astros ripped themselves apart. I truthfully think Jim Bowden (Nats) is a better GM, and that should not be interpreted as a compliment of Bowden.
Good points. Josh Byrnes is an outstanding young GM.Kevin Towers I think is a top 5 GM in baseball, and I also think Beane is overated. I think O’Dowd seems about right, but Gillick? Seriously? What has he even done for them at all?
It’s certainly the case that whenever I’ve headed over to Beerleaguer to pick myself up by reading what those poor deluded souls have to say for themselves, I haven’t seen any love for Gillick, and a lot of hate.
Omar got Santana for a bag of beans and did not shell out 25M a year to keep him…
How quickly we forget.
Personally I think he should be higher than 8th but these rankings are kinda asinine anyway.
Besides, didnt Heyman work for Newsday for 15 years? So he seems to know a lot more transactions that occured for the Mets as opposed to the Indians and Diamondbacks and is more aware of the bad ones.
Why not cut to the chase. If winning is the ultimate measure, then just rank teams by wins and be done with it.
Or how about ranking them based on how much better a team gets from year to year?
otherwise it is like ranking drafts before the players even play a game.
I thought it was interesting that the article didn’t mention our smaller trades and signings that make up our team. The Castillo trade was great for us at a time we desperately needed him. Didn’t Omar also bring in Sanchez, which we know did great before the accident. Also, the Milledge trade gave us 2 starting position players with + defense. I think that these type of small trades (don’t forget about Maine and Perez) are what makes Omar a great GM.
I agree with Heyman’s ranking for the most part, especially putting Dombrowski, Epstein and Beane at the top. But Cashman and Gillick do not deserve to be ranked so highly, unless Cashman is getting sympathy or pity credit.
Not only is it clear that PEDs played a significant role in the titles Cashman’s teams have won, but his teams have done poorly since 2004 considering the huge budgets he’s been given. The pity credit comes from having to work under an insufferable ownership structure.
As for Epstein, regardless of any bad moves he’s made, the bottom line is that he’s been able to put together two WS winners — in an age of steroids testing, which means his teams for the most part were probably clean (unlike the Evil Empire when they won).
I’ve been impressed with Heyman’s overall writing since he moved from Newsday and this article is a good example why.
omar is great i doubt anybody remembers this comment i posted but when the santana talks were heating up in a nutshell i said……”i cant blame the twins for asking for martinez b/c he is most likley worth all 5 but i think we can wait it out just like the twins did. kinda like playing chicken. both parties tryed to act if the other either needed to trade him more or trade for him more. i think by some crazy circumstance we will get him for the package we previously offered.(santana wanting to get traded already)”
we fleeced the twins – gotta love it
we shoudl all give thanks to the real catalyst behind this trade….Johan’s travel agent. It was his vacation schedule that put the Twins on that burning platform. And Minaya pounced.
I’m going to give thanks to Johan’s actual agent, Peter Greenberg, who I heard this Sunday on “Talking Baseball with Ed Randall” say:
“If I didn’t get this deal done, my father who is a huge Mets fan would’ve killed me, plus I would’ve gotten booed every time I sat in my regular seats at Shea.”
Thanks Mr. and Mr. Greenberg and your season tickets!
i seriously hope Congress doesn’t start throwing out subpoenas to the Mets and Twins after this trade.
Like with SpyGate, this just may fall under some anti-trust provision.
thankyou liberty travel lol
look omar has been a better gm then duq and steve im and arrogant ex mets prospect phillips – omar has a knack for finding diamonds in the rough and signing the big name free agent – look bell was persona non grata with the jacket bannister im still scratching my head and im gonna miss henry owens
but i have 1 question since lindstrom is a mormon don’t you think his magic underwear woulda made him unbeatable?
lindstrom was an interesting arm, but who knows with him, its not like he was pitchng in high stress situations down in florida. As for Owens, no one should miss him, he’s a huge injury risk, had like 2 stints on the DL last year, and his fastball is super straight. Once teams figure out that hitch in his delivery, he’ll be nothing. I always understood the logic in the trades Omar made with Bannister and Bell, and LIndtrom and Owens. If you remember back, they pretty much made sense at the time, and no one really thought much of them. Did they work out? No, they haven’t thus far, and I guess that’s all you can really say. In order to get steals like Maine, Ollie, El Duque even, other guys, you need to try some stuff out. Some work, some don’t, its just the one’s that don’t get highly publicized because its NY. If Bell were on some other team, no one would even know who he was or criticize anyone. He wasn’t getting it done here and needed to go. Bad trade? yeah in retrospect, but at the time, it needed to happen.
didn’t think of it in that regards darkstar – i just fell in love with owens fastball in the brief time he was up in n.y
btw u a big dead fan?
his fastball was impressive, I just think its rather straight and worked briefly because has a weird hitch in his delivery. Either way, he is an injury risk (had shoulder surgery this offseason) and has zero control over his secondary pitches, still an interesting arm no doubt and an interesting story, as he started out as a catcher. And yeah, i’m a pretty big deadhead.
What a joke Heyman is. How could Cashman and Gillick be placed ahead of Omar?
Yes the Mets choked down the stretch, but that choke is why Gillick’s awful, pitching-free Phillies were able to make the playoffs and then get swept by the Rockies.
And Cashman? What have the Jankos done in the past few years? Pavano, Igawa, Brown, Farnsworth, Jaret Wright, Contreras, expensive FA pitching bust after bust.
But hey, whatever, when the Mets are looking down at the Jankos and, of course the Phills and Braves, Omar will have the last laugh.
Heyman gets paid to write something.
It’s stupid.
BigHangWithEm reads it (along with many others). BigHangWithEm gets pissed (along with many others). BigHangWithEm writes on metsblog how pissed he is.
Heyman get paid to write something else.
It’s stupid.
BigHangWithEm reads it (along with now many more others)
It’s a vicious never-ending circle, my man.
This is also known as the Bill Simmons effect.
It has been said thatr the measure of a good organization is how well they develop and provide their major league teams with talent or the trade value to get the talent needed to major league team. He was able to get the best left-handed pitcher in baseball, in his prime, and other teams could not. The other teams, in the end may not have wanted to acquire him. Omar had a need and filled it with the best player available.