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Carlos Beltran’s “We’re the team to beat” announcement made its way to Phillies camp, says Jayson Stark of ESPN.com.
Stark writes:
“All it took was Carlos Beltran announcing Saturday in Port St. Lucie that his team was the team to beat. And presto — Phillies-Mets had instantly zoomed right to the top of the National League rivalry charts.”
…if i calculated correctly, April 8th is 50 days away…is there a fast forward option available…
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with 2 days off within the first week of the year, its tough to say how willie will work his starting rotation to match up with the Phils. Phillies have no days off and will presumably be headed towards the middle of their rotation…
Obviously the Mets probably want Santana to start on the opening homestand for PR reasons, but it will be interesting to see where Willie slots him in (as well as Pedro, Maine and/or Ollie) during their first homestand.
What do you think Willie will do?
I wouldn’t be surprised if he skipped Duque if it keeps the others on normal rest, and sets up Santana and Ollie for the Phils (gotta love the lefties!).
Talk about a pitching mismatch. Santana, Martinez and perez vs. Moyer, Eaton and Kendrick.
Calculated words? seems more like Beltran was having some fun. Regardless, you know the team is going to go all out this year. LETS GO METS!
of course it was fun, and all this bantering is fun for the fans, and will have zippo to do with how the season plays out.
Who said anything about calculated words?
He should probably just shut up anyway and whoop some ass on the field. That’s all that matters.
It’s casual day today, so I wore a Beltran jersey into the office just to annoy the Phillie fans (I live and work just outside of Philly).
That team is going to be on the wrong end of a lot of high scoring games most likely (say 10-8), unless their pitching performs way over their heads.
Although this could be the year that the offense tails off a bit. They still have Utley and howard, and of course J roll, but the rest of the team could easily contribute more Ks than anything else. Also not a good defensive team overall. Toss is a couple of key injuires (gotta have a few, right?) and they could slide.
What happened to the braves? We cannot forget that rivalry…because that is real…this one is just some posers from an ugly ass city.
ahh the braves rivalry has lost steam in the past couple of years… this is the rivalry now and i think it’s gonna be bigger than the braves. This one is gonna last a long time.
There’s nothing wrong with throwing down like this. I’ve been sick of watching the Mets cower in the corner since the September collapse so on the one hand this is refreshing. On the other hand the Mets over the past few years have talked the talk and not walked the walk. Whether it’s “Your Time Has Come” or Delgado’s “I know what to do to get out of this..” or Wags early in the season “You’re not using me enough to late in the season I’m being used too much”. So with this coming from a guy who just had both knee’s scoped this offseason part of me’s waiting for the other shoe to drop.
“That’s nice Carlos Beltran decided to talk some trash, my wife tried that once and look what happened to her. If Carlos isn’t careful the same might happen to him.” – Brett Myers
“I thought we were the team to beat in 2006….but then for some reason, I couldn’t get the bat off my shoulder when the game was on the line. Curve balls been bery bery bad to me.”-Carlos Beltran
“I predicted we would win the NL East, but I didnt predict anymore than that. The playoffs is tough man – there’s a reason Philly hasn’t been able to win playoff game in 14 years. We’ll be back next year to give it another shot, but I can’t give any guarantees.” – Jimmy Rollins
“Okay I’m ready for opening day. Wait. What? I got traded where? I’m so high right now.” – Lastings Milledge
come on man, that’s not even funny!
“I still believe in my guys…The champagne will taste that much sweeter when we wrap this thing up.” -Willie Randolph …oh wait, thats an actual quote…
beltran lacks rollins’ stones…he accepted the target on his back and went out and dominated…lets see if the mole can walk the walk
rollins predicted they’re gonna win 100 games this season, didn’t he? that was before the mets got santana. i think 85 wins will be tough for them. they just got lucky last year. the mets lost it more than the phillies winning the east. and rolins is not even the real mvp, i think it should have been holliday.
It’s interesting how last year you guys thought Wright was the MVP, now it’s all Holliday all the time. What changed your mind about DWright’s MVP season?
oh, shut up. dwright’s mvp season starts in april, and every april thereafter.
DWright was the only player in MLB to go 30/30/100/100/.300 last year, which added with a gold glove definitely sums to an MVP caliber year.
Matt Holliday was huge for the Rockies though. He quite literally drove his team into the playoffs.
it’s actually march 31 this season, almost forgot.
I live in Denver and watched Holliday play for the past two seasons. He was a big factor in their late season run, and unlike Rollins, he showed up to the play offs…even when the rest of the Rockies were getting shut down by the Sox Holliday still got off a nice home run and owned Schilling in the pitching clinic he was putting on with the rest of the Rockies.
And you have yet to explain why voters felt Holliday hit in a pitcher’s park, therefore Rollins was the real MVP …because CBP isn’t a hitters park by any means, right?
MVP is a regular season award, that’s why DWright didn’t win.
And apparently the MVP voters regard a division title above a wild card slot. Both the Phils and Rockies benefitted by collapses of the teams ahead of them, but I guess slaying the (at that point in the season) full Mets squad was deemed harder than topping the injury-ridden Pads.
Actually the Rockies went on a late season killing spree losing only game in 19 or so until they met the SOX and they were playing much tougher teams than the Phillies. And, like every debate we have, the main reasons given for Rollins winning out over Holliday was because Coors is a hitters park (not really, though, its fair now due to the addition of the humidor). All of the voters apparently have never been to Philly, watched a home Philly game, did any research on park statistics or opened their eyes in any way shape or form because CBP is known around the entire MLB as a hitters paradise…
Care to comment on that ever?
Don’t know if first attempt was filtered, so trying again.
Sure…
Colorado, 3rd in park factors for runs scored, Philly 14th…
Philly 1st in HRs, Colorado 5th.
Colorado 3rd in 2bs, Philly 23rd.
Colorado 2nd in hits, Philly 19th.
Colorado 4th in 3Bs, Philly 20th.
If Colorado ain’t a hitters park, then Philly isn’t either.
Sure, it’s easier to hit HRs, but given the choice between runs and HRs, I’ll take more runs every day of the week.
Previous seasons, runs scored park effects:
2004: Colorado #1, CBP 12
2005: Col: #1, CBP #2
2006: Col #2, CBP #5
Looks like last year was an off year for Colorado’s park factor, and it still was easier to score runs there than at Citizens Bank Park.
Carlos Beltran would DESTROY Wife Beater Myers!!!!!
Brett Myers beats his wife!!
I love it! Anytime Beltran shows a pulse it’s a good thing. God I wish this season would start
The Braves are sitting back enjoying the Mets & Phills taking shots at each other.
Smoltz, Hampton, Hudson, Glavin. Some may disagree but if they stay remotely healthy, they will have their say in all of this.
Yeah, like last year they just watched us duke it out and slipped right on by to their 15th NL East in 16 years… oh wait…
That is excatly what they are hoping for, to be overlooked.
Brave starters 1-4 are better than the Phills.
They’re almost the anti-Phils – good rotation, average offense. It’s just less extreme.
A few things are going to have big impacts on the Braves season:
How many starts is Larry good for?
How many starts are their old pitchers good for?
How many inches outside the plate does Glavine get on his return to Atlanta?
“No Hablo Engles!” – Jose Reyes
“Engles is not a word, in English or Spanish. Ingles, however, is. Jose Reyes lo conoce.” – Me
I just love the whole “Jimmy Rollins was so damned original and Carlos Beltran is such a copycat” sentiment. Hilarious, as if prior to Jimmy Rollins in January 2007 no other player in the history of professional sports had ever predicted success for their team in the upcoming season. Jimmy Rollins ‘07: about as original as the wheel.
If what Rollins said was so routine, why did the Mets fans get in such a tizzy about it?
Why did it upset the Mets themselves so much that Beltran need to make an attempt at a sequel a year later?
I wasn’t in a tizzy about it, anyone who was please feel free to respond. I think it’s fairly obvious that a Met fan in general would be more aware of a division foe player making a decleration than say a Kansas City Chief player, if that puts it into any kind of context, but I stand by my original point that Rollins was not the first pro athlete to ever say “we’re the best” and I know deep inside you know that too.
I can’t speak for Beltran, but my belief is Rollins statement gained true importance only in hindsight, after the “collapse” (or do you call it “the Miracle at Shea?”) The Mets players are doing everything they can to put that behind them, if making an “attempt at a sequel” is one of the many ways to help do that then as a supporter of the team I applaud him despite knowing that it’s an iota less original than Rollins’ lack of originality last year.
I dunno, we kinda heard a lot about ‘team to beat’ from spring training up until the Mets collapse was complete.
Remember razzing Rollins for an error back in the glorious Mets month of April? That was for ‘team to beat’, not just generic opposing player disdain. (Some Met premature celebrator still has it posted on youtube, mocking the Phillies for being inferior to the Mets 6 gms into the year).
I’m sure there is basis in reality for your statements above Fallow, I’m also sure they didn’t and don’t speak for me. I don’t play it that way. I understand Karma. If that makes me boring to “argue” with I’m sorry. I don’t gloat prematurely, and I barely gloat after rare and wonderful ultimate victories. I simply enjoy the moment.
When the Mets signed Santana I didn’t think “alright chalk up the title” I thought “alright another weapon for the fight.”
Since I’ve stopped going to the blogs of opposing teams, I ask you, are my fellow met fans doing what you’re doing here in philly blogs? If so, I can only hope they’re doing it in a reasonable fashion as you are.
I did quote some Mets fans chat from a Phillies blog, didn’t make it through whatever filters are working here, although it was along the lines of much of what’s written here.
the reason we were in a “tizzy” was because last Spring Training, the Phillies were coming off an 85-win season in which they finished 12 games behind the 97-win Mets, who were one hit away from the World Series, losing to the eventual WS Champions, and the Phils hadn’t made any major improvements to their team. There was no reason to think, going into the season, that the Phillies were better than the Mets…and guess what: they weren’t, not until September. They spent exactly 2 days all last season ahead of the Mets, they were just lucky that one of those days was the last day of the season.
Now, this Spring, the Mets are coming off an 88-win season in which they finished 1 game behind the 89-win Phillies, who got DOMINATED in the playoffs by the wild-card team. Meanwhile, the Mets went out and added the best pitcher in baseball while the Phillies added…Pedro Feliz?
If you can’t see the difference between the 2 situations, well, then, your just plain dumb. Here’s the way I like to look at it…over the past 2 seasons:
Mets – 185 wins + Johan Santana
Phillies – 174 wins + Brad Lidge, Pedro Feliz
Yeah, but you forget that the Phillies were under the impression that Freddie Garcia and Adam Eaton would actually contribute some actual quality starts and not just frustration in spring of 07. It’s only in retrospect that those weren’t major improvements. Even expected some help from Wes Helms.
And 2006 was the only year in the last six, now seven years, where the Mets finished ahead of the Phillies. It wasn’t that long ago the Mets would finish 15, 19 games back of the Phillies.
And apparently the glorious 2006 Mets playoff run didn’t impress people. Losing to an inferior team– who by the way had a worse record than the 2007 Wild Card team you scoff at–no matter how closely, somehow isn’t impressive.
By the way, next time you want to type something about how dumb someone is, keep in mind the proper grammar is “you’re just plain dumb.”
‘You’re’ is the contraction for ‘you are’–’your’ is a possessive, and dumb is not a noun, so a possessive makes little sense there.
I doubt *you’re* gonna see this, since this topic is about to get pushed to the 2nd page but last year the Mets were also of the impression that post-suspension Guillermo Mota plus the addition of Scott Schoenweiss was gonna solidify an already solid bullpen, not lead to its ultimate collapse. They also expected more than 87 games from Moises Alou, and didn’t expect him, Endy, and Milledge to all get hurt at the exact same time. I’m sorry, but ask any impartial observer, and they’ll likely tell you Freddy Garcia, Adam Eaton, and Wes Helms shouldn’t be enough to overcome a 12-game deficit.
And I apologize for the grammatical mistake, my girlfriend was finishing cooking dinner while I was posting, so I didn’t proofread. I do sincerely hope you’ll forgive me this one minor transgression.
It’s funny to see someone make dumb grammatical mistakes when they’re making ad hominem attacks, even if dinner is cooking!
Experts did pick the Mets last year, some picked the Phillies. Most did say the Phillies improved themselves and I don’t recall anyone saying the Mets middle relief was the key to the season.
Expecting Alou to play a bunch of games when he’s in his 40s is kinda hard to believe when he wasn’t the healthiest guy in his prime. You don’t expect fragile guys to become less fragile as they push into Julio Franco territory.
Because you are in our heads! I cant sleep, eat or think Fallow…I have nightmares about Burrell and his Old Spice chest and Jimmy Rollins predicting himself for President in 12′.
This is what you fans wanted. Beltran showing some emotion…..So lets not complain cause if he didn’t say anything you guys would keep on going with the “beltran don’t care” vibe. Good for you Carlos. Lets go mets
I’ve realized at long as this idoit is playing CF we’re not going to win a title. I think its time for the majority of you to realize that as well. I’m glad he started piping off like the brilliant man this runs this site did last august when he said the NL East was all but wrapped up. I knew we were doomed from the second I saw his post. Now I read this from Carlos and I know we’re doomed again….
Get Grady Sizemore in a Mets uni…ASAP….
How did Grady Sizemore’s team do in the playoffs last year? They won a title? Oh no, that’s right, the Red Sox beat them.
Look, man, give Beltran the credit he deserves – he’s a better player than Sizemore in most aspects of the game, and on the other aspects they’re equal. No way is Sizemore better than Beltran. And Beltran has had quite a few big hits and catches for us for the past two years, and we would not have had the success we’ve had without him.
You want Sizemore as your CF? Go root for the Indians.
Dagger, Last time I checked Beltran is a multi millionaire. So between him and you i’d call you the idiot.
The Mets choke away the season and they go out and sign Santana. Based on that signing, as opposed to on field play, Beltran runs his big mouth. Until this team starts producing and playing with intensity, as opposed to mailing it in like they did the majority of last year, I don’t want to hear a word from any of them. The Mets need to earn back the respect of us fans — I have been following them for almost 30 years and last year was an utter disgrace. Shut up and play idiots.
OK, first off, Beltran’s mouth is anything but big.
And I give him credit for finally saying something… every team in the league should go into Spring Training feeling like they’re the team to beat, even teams like the Nats, Royals and Pirates.
Let’s not forget the Phillies didn’t go out and have some great year – they barely made the playoffs and got swept in the Divisional Round. I give them credit for stepping up and taking advantage of the Mets futility, but they stunk most of the year. They may have won, but more importantly, the Mets lost.
i give Beltran respect for having confidence in the team, even if he did say it as a joke. You know he’ll do all he can to get us there, and I can’t wait to leave the Phillies and their fans in the dust.
“The Mets choke away the season and they go out and sign Santana. Based on that signing, as opposed to on field play, Beltran runs his big mouth. Until this team starts producing and playing with intensity, as opposed to mailing it in like they did the majority of last year, I don’t want to hear a word from any of them. The Mets need to earn back the respect of us fans — I have been following them for almost 30 years and last year was an utter disgrace. Shut up and play idiots.”
This is absolutely the worst post I have come across in my life. Literally. Everything in there is false. Also, I gauruntee, that yuou arent even 30 years old, let alone been a Met fan for 30 years. I bet you are a 11 year old kid who is just angry waiting for your balls to drop. My post was about as credible as yours. Make stuff up, make crazy assumptions, etc.
krumbled — in terms of Beltran — my point is, he is running his mouth based on nothing that happed on field — or anything he can possibly take credit for. Yes, they traded for/signed Santana — brilliant move — no question. But, before we hand the division to the Mets and start boasting in the press, why don’t
we wait to see if the intensity and drive that existed in ‘06 (and which was clearly lacking in ‘07) is back based on their on-field performance. The disappointment from ‘07 should not be wiped clean by the simple fact that Minaya did his job well. nrmax88 — don’t be so quick to drink the kool aid, you embarass yourself. Literally.
I wrote this on Sat. night after the Beltran Matter broke. I am interested to hear what Mets brethren think and even what Phils Phans/Trolls have to say, too.
Wow! It’s interesting following these debates about who’s better, Mets or Phils. It is kind of weird that we’re all duking it out so hard, and we haven’t had so much as a spring training game yet.
Endless rehashing of last season, who has the better players, who’s HOF bound, why one team collapsed and another made the playoffs, who will or won’t get injured, who sucks, who will put up numbers, who can take the pressure in NY… my goodness.
One thing in defense of Phillies and their, um, “supporters”: they kicked the crap out of us in the last eight games we played in ’07, so let’s not freakin’ pretend they didn’t earn their way into the playoffs. We sucked royally, and they took advantage. Now it’s the job of every Met and every Mets fan to focus on redemption through victories from April till October.
Being a die-hard Mets fan, there are some things to be said: folks such as Alou, Hernandez, Castillo, Delgado, and Martinez are season-lasting question marks, and we all have to face it. Personally, if the Mets remain relatively healthy and if management devises the right kind of rest strategy for pitchers and BP, especially, Alou, Delgado, Reyes, etc., Mets really should win a minimum of 95 games.
Since I mentioned Delgado, I have to say that I anticipate a great year from this player. Mets haters have written him off as too old and washed up. My argument is that last year’s sub-par performance really boiled down to his hand injury. If this man’s healthy, say your prayers (Philly) varmints!
As for the Mets’ outfield, our main platoon guy is Endy Chavez. I expect he’s mainly to share duties w/ Alou, but he’s capable of playing any of the three spots, and he’s a very fine fielder. He certainly hits capably. If Chavez weren’t w/ the 2008 Mets, I’m pretty sure he’d be a starting OF on just about any other MLB team. I hear people running down Church, but I’m not sure you’ll be laughing at him the season. Keep in mind his career BA @ Shea; it’s something like .340. He had high extra-base hit numbers last years in RFK, and many argue that a good few of those would have been hrs @ Shea. Again, we’ll have to wait and see. Not too shabby. He’s not a bad defensive guy either.
I’ll take our IF over the Phils defensively any day.
There’s a terrific article in today’s NY Times about the defensive skills of Brian Schneider; this guy may be our new Jerry Grote. Moreover, one of the main reasons the Mets traded for him was his skills with pitchers. Sure, complain about his tepid numbers with the stick all you want, but I’ll taking defense and pitching prowess in baseball any day over offense; history bears out what I favor.
Phils’ fans you have got to keep in mind that we basically had no Martinez for the whole season. If he stays healthy for even half of the season, that’s more than likely 10 more wins through his efforts alone. Santana replaces Glavs, and if he pitches the way he usually does, it probably means 7-8 more victories over last season. That alone can make the difference in 2008.
The BP in ’07 was completely unreliable when we needed them most. Naturally, this implosion could happen again, but it’s really unlikely. Two factors: Aaron Heilman and Duaner Sanchez. Heilman, I think it’s safe to say, did a very mediocre job for us. He is very likely to improve given his past numbers, new BP environment, etc. If Sanchez is healthy and pitches to let’s say 70% of what he did for us in 2006, then you’re talking another 8-10 games Mets don’t worry about giving away.
As long as the Phils can boast this kind of win improvement potential (WIP, if you’re taking notes), then we have a real dogfight on our hands into September. Otherwise…your chances of having something to live for in October (other than rooting against the Amazins, or possibly being the Wild Card) is pretty darn slim.
Let the Season Begin!!
Phils have been in the Wild Card chase most of the 2000s (the only reason we didn’t end up in a three way wild card tie along with the Pads and Rockies was the Mets failure to win any games in late September) so it’d be a surprise if they weren’t.
Most of the Phils pitching stank last year, so there’s some room for improvement just by dumb luck this year, just as there’s a chance one or more of your non-Messiah pitchers has a down season this year. That’s one thing the Phillies seemed to shrug off-knowing that so many times a week you just gotta outhit the other team.
And we hold out hope that Chase Utley (who looked like the MVP until his hand was broken) doesn’t miss a month this season, which gives us wome more WIP.
Your pitching remains a huge question mark. Can Hamels really be relied on to be the ace of your staff in only his third big-league season? Will Myers successfully make the adjustment back into the rotation? Is Kendrick headed for a sophomore slump? How long can Moyer really keep on plodding along?
There is room for your pitching to be better – but there’s also room for it to be even worse.
And don’t forget, for all the injury woes the Phillies had last year, the Mets easily matched them. No Sanchez or Padilla the entire year, no Pedro until September, an entire outfield on the 15-day DL at once etc. etc. Now, I don’t expect the Mets to have an injury-free season this year, but last year really was the worst-case scenario and the odds are this year won’t be as bad.
I dare say Utley’s more crucial of a player than Sanchez or Padilla-I’m not even sure who Padilla is-some bullpen guy with 42 ML appearances? Is that a joke? If I gave you a choice, would you rather lose an All Star infielder, say David Wright, for a month or a middle reliever?
And of course the Phils had 4/5 of their starting rotation go on the DL, both closers, Howard too.
Going into last year you knew Pedro was going to be out, so you did set up your roster for that.
I’d take a year of Duaner Sanchez over a month of Chase Utley in an instant. The guy threw 21 consecutive scoreless innings to start ‘06. His loss not only left us without a dominant setup guy, it threw the entire bullpen into disarray, without clearly defined roles.
Padilla had an ERA of 1.49 in ‘05, and a WHIP of 1.018
Mota had an ERA of 5.76 in ‘07 and a WHIP of 1.364
Now, I do understand that Padilla’s ‘05 was not a full season, but it wouldn’t have taken much of an improvement over Mota to put the Mets over the top. In a bullpen that struggled badly over the second half of the season, any extra arm would’ve helped
I guess you can argue the merits of a MVP-type infielder vs a setup guy, but throwing in some unproven reliever who was on three different teams in two years, had an ERA of over 10 for one of them, and didn’t pitch for 2 seasons, kinda defies belief. Are you related to this guy?
The point is one month vs a full year. Go home Phillies Fan, you won’t win here.
I’d rather have an unproven guy who’s shown great potential, than a proven disaster (Mota).
Why do you think we traded Mota for someone we non-tendered?
Presumably there are some Met fans here who don’t blame their collapse on the absence of unknown pitcher named Padilla?
If you need every last unheralded middle reliever/long man to make it through the season unaffected by injury you’re in for a long season.
You’re talking about dumb luck… we lost the division by one game. I think the meta-point my fellow Mets fans are making– and have been staring in the face all off-season– is that any of, say, 12 factors (whether under Met direct control– middle relief, e.g.– or not– an umpire’s out-of-baseline call, for example) could have helped make up that gap.
Which is why every Padilla (or Sanchez absence, or Schoeneweis being used properly JUST ONCE, or 2 more starts from Pedro, or no blown ump calls at CBP during that last series there) helps, and has gotten the fixation treatment.
so basically you are piling on every possible excuse you can to make it seem like the Mets should have won the division. It could have gone either way, but sometimes projections don’t play out and they actually have to play the games. If this were MLB ‘07 on your PS2, then maybe it would have worked in your favor, but shit happens.
I agree with the point, then, if the Mets have everything go right for them in 2008-no injuries, everyone’s healthy, no bad luck, then they’ll be hard to beat.
That’s not the point at all.
The Mets had a lot of things go wrong for them last year. That’s baseball, and it’s expected. There are a small handful of those things that, had any one of them gone right, would have put the Mets into the postseason. That’s also baseball.
The fact is, even without Sanchez for the whole season, Pedro from almost the whole season, El Duque, Alou, Chavez, Valentin for big chunks of the season, with Green going on the DL for the first time in his career, Delgado and Beltran playing through injuries for big chunks of the season, even with all that, the Mets were so close to the Phillies that one piece of luck or one play made that was blown or one piece of smarter baserunning could have put the Mets in the postseason at the Phillies’ expense.
Now Pedro and Sanchez are back, Beltran and Castillo have had their knees cleared out, Delgado’s injury-free, and we have the best pitcher in baseball.
Watch out, we’re coming, and we want our division title back… and more.
I think the important thing about the off-season is this:
The Mets really, to me, haven’t gotten weaker in any position. The only debatable one would be catcher, but Schneider’s offensive numbers over the last two seasons compare well with Lo Duca’s, and his defense is a big upgrade, so personally I’d make that trade any day. You can bet Schneider wouldn’t have been calling for Mota to throw all those fastballs at Spezio in game 2 of the ‘06 NLCS.
The Braves and the Phillies both lost way-above-average center fielders and their replacements will both represent a downgrade.
The Mets were 1 win – and, really, a freak roll of the ball (I think it was the second game of the last series with the Phils where the ball rolled down the third base line ) – behind the Phils last season. They underperformed last year, so even with the same personnel they should have been expected to do better; but they upgraded the team as well. Beltran’s right – we’re the team to beat.
I can’t believe anyone can seriously write that one freak roll cost the Mets the division title.
Are you telling us that the Mets got no lucky breaks all season-or the only one that counts is the one that you want to point out?
And if the ball rolls foul, how do you know Rowand doesn’t rip a double or homer on a subsequent pitch?
You could easily point to a ball that Beltran didn’t catch off Rollins that turned into a triple as the turnaround of the season too.
Or Billy Wagner deciding to ignore a baserunner who stole second and third and then scored?
Or Marlon Anderson foolishly interfering with a fielder’s choice play that would have tied a game?
But picking one of those would put the blame on a Mets’ player rather than ‘luck’.
Thanks for reemphasizing my point.
The margin between the Mets and the Phillies last year was less than wafer-thin. There were several plays that could’ve gone the Mets way that didn’t – either because it was just one of those things or because a Met was unusually boneheaded – that could have prevented the 8-0 sweep in the last two series vs. the Phils.
If the Mets won any single one of those games, they’d have gone to the postseason.
Since we’ve improved more than the Phils in the offseason, it seems to me we’re now the team to beat.
Right, and I’m sure the Mets never won a game that the other team could have pointed to one bounce of the ball or other dumb luck and said, Hey, they were lucky!
Nope, the Mets absolutely earned every single win, and what cost them was all their bad luck.
You miss the point.
One single play could’ve changed the result of the season. And in this case, one of several plays.
The two teams were extremely close last season. That’s the point.
The Mets are clearly better going into this year.
Yup, just like last year.
Last year was debatable due to Pedro, Duaner, Oliver(Darren), Bradford, Delgado, Chavez and Easley being traded away, unable to play, or playing with injuries.
What does it say about your team when it takes half our bullpen being lost to FA, inuries killing some our stars and most of our bench out to injury to pull a last game of the season 1 game win, which led to a sweep?
This year we get some of key players back and you lost Rowand. Explain to me how your team is better?
2007 Phillies had a ton of injuries as well, not just to middle relievers and long men either. What does it say about your team that you can’t beat an injury riddled, pitching-poor Phillies team with a 7 gm lead with 17 to play with a healthy squad (Pedro was back, Delgado was back, etc etc)?
Losing your starters and closers is harder to deal with than losing Darren Oliver. Endy Chavez should actually be fairly easy to replace (Marlon Anderson, anyone?)
I don’t recall people picking against the Mets in Feb. 07 either, my point.
They had SOME injuries and they came back. Half of our bullpen was gone and we had Pedro for 5 games (which he posted a 3-1 record, so he helped) and a stint where our entire outfield was on the DL.
And apparently you don’t understand sports as a whole. Its not about the how great your players are in a vacuum, its about how well your team is all around. All around, last year the Mets had weak starting pitching and a depleted bullpen from the previous year. So yes, losing the likes of Duaner, Oliver, Bradfiord and having an injured Pedro for 90% of the season was why we did so poorly. How man games did we have where the bullpen gave up a few run lead? To an extent, it was our starters fault, too, because they didn’t pitch deep enough and the BO ot over-worked…but irregardless our BO was trash last year when it was the best in the MLB the year before,
You address your needs as a whole team, and in that sense not having some solid middle and late relief really hurt us…
….and as numerous people have pointed out and you keep ignoring, your team won by one game…having one more solid reliever could have been the difference between the Mets in the play offs and the Phills sitting home. Im not taking away from the Phills at all, they played great, but you are dillusional if you think your injuries were as bad as ours, not too mention our loss of some great players in the bullpen.
You’re right-middle relievers are much more valuable than any other spot. Missing starters, closers, MVP 1st basemen, potential MVP second basemen, starting outfielders, backup outfielders-none of that compares to missing Duaner Sanchez and Darren Oliver! I don’t know why I was so ‘dillusional’ about that.
The Mets last year had weak starting pitching? Then what do you call what the Phillies threw out there?
You guys blew the lead WITH Pedro, WITH your starting outfield, as healthy as you were all season.
And why do you keep going on about “BO”? What does the Mets’ odors have to do with anything?
For reference when you need to complain about Mets’ injuries in 07:
Phils 2007 notable injuries:
Starting pitchers:
Freddie Garcia (made only 11 starts)
Jon Lieber (made only 12 starts)
Cole Hamels (missed almost a month-late August to late September)
Adam Eaton (only 15 days on DL)
Relievers:
Brett Myers (missed 2 months)
Tom Gordon (missed month and a half)
Mike Zagurski (missed last month and a half)
Ryan Madson (a 15 day DL trip and later missed the last 2 months)
Yoel Hernandez
Francisco Rosario
Scott Mathieson
Bench:
Chris Coste
Rod Barajas
Michael Bourn (missed over a month, was probably set to be a starter to replace Victorino but was injured in the same game as Victorino a couple of innings later)
Jayson Werth (missed a month)
Starters:
Ryan Howard
Chase Utley (missed August)
Shane Victorino (missed at least a month, and was hobbled but played off and on after that)
EastSwallowField…
By the time Pedro came back to pitch for us, the season was lost at least IMO.
I lived in Philadelphia for 5 years..I can’t wait for the Philthy’s to get off to a miserable start again this year, and for the entire city – (if that’s what you want to call it) including the mayor, to boo them out of town.
I must say, for a Phillies fan, you present valid points, and your comments are backed up by statistics and facts – which is quite refreshing, so kudos to that. Unlike like most of your fanbase, who comments (aka sh*t talking) are more along the lines of “Beltran does his mom for fun on the weekends” or “Billy Wagner – your mom’s leg broke and gravy poured out.
For the most part, your fanbase is pathetic. However i will allow you to stay on our forum, but for the rest of you pathetic excuses for sports fans, get off our forum..
MAN I FEEL BETTER NOW.
Rotation:
Pedro only made 5 starts;
El Duque only made 24 starts;
Oliver Perez spent 15 days on the DL;
Dave Williams was injured most of the season;
Vargas was injured late
Bullpen:
Billy Wagner missed some key September save ops;
Duaner Sanchez missed the entire season;
Jorge Sosa hit the 15-day DL;
Ambiorix Burgos missed the second half;
Juan Padilla missed the entire season;
Scott Schoeneweis played the season with a ruptured tendon
Starters:
Moises Alou made only 87 starts;
Carlos Beltran hit the 15-day DL and spent long periods of time playing through pain;
Shawn Green hit the 15-day DL;
Carlos Delgado hit the 15-day DL;
Jose Valentin missed most of the season;
Luis Castillo missed time and was hampered by leg injuries;
Paul Lo Duca hit the 15-day DL;
David Wright missed some starts with back spasms
Bench:
Damion Easley missed the last 1 1/2 months
Endy Chavez missed 2 1/2 months
Lastings Milledge missed 2 months
Ben Johnson hit the 15-day DL
Ramon Castro hit the 15-day DL
Carlos Gomez was out 2 months
At one point, we had Alou, Green, Beltran, Milledge and Gomez all injured at once and had to start with an outfield of Newhan, Chavez and Johnson.
We also had Lo Duca and Castro on the DL at the same time forcing us to start Sandy Alomar Jr – which was definitely never intended.
So, we lost: our #1 starter for most of the year; our #3 starter for a month; our 8th inning setup guy for the entire year; our closer when we needed him; all kinds of starting position players, including all-stars; bench players, and backup players who were needed because the starters were injured.
Did you have to start your 4th catcher last year? How about your 8th outfielder?
Phils only had Moyer make it through the season unhurt in the starting rotation.
You had Maine and Glavine and lost Perez for only 15 days-definitely healthier.
El Duque gets hurt every year, as does Alou. Wagner begging off games sounds familiar too. They’re all back, so potential built-in excuses abound for 2008?
Overall, your pitching staff was healthier (I’ll take healthy starters and a hurt setup man over a healthy setup man and disabled starters-there’s a reason starters get paid way more than setup men).
Knowing going in what Pedro would miss most of the season means you should have a plan for that-especially since money doesn’t seem to be a problem. Same for setup guy.
My point was both teams had injuries-ours hit the pitchers the most but also some regulars. Yours hit the outfield the most, it seems. To me, outfielders are easier to find than pitching, especially starting pitching.
And our injuries seemed to come mostly in August and September, yours in the middle of the season. Most of all on that Mets list were around for that September to Forget…
Fact check on the “When Pedro came back, season was already lost” statement:
Pedro’s first start, September 3rd.
Standings at start of day…
Mets up by 4 games. Would go on to extend it to 5 after Pedro won and Phillies lost, eventually go up to 7 game lead with only 17 left. Judging from the gloating here and elsewhere, the idea that the Mets’ season was lost was not widely held…
best news in this article is the picture of myers. looks like he’s been on the dunkin donuts diet all winter
Yikes – looks like wife-beating really isn’t a good workout regimen.
Wow. He gained himself a lot of weight this year. Somebody remind he’s going to have to be out there to pitch 5, 6, 7 innings….
I hear he mixes in a little general reporter-bullying on his spousal-abuse rest days. You know, just to mix up the routine, and work other great-human-being muscle groups…
beltran doesn’t talk trash, he talks smack, they are totally different. trash talk is all hypothetical, like, your mom is so fat, she could eat the internet.
The only thing I don’t like about this article is the fact that Stark couldn’t get any comments from any of the Met players, but he used the whole article up on the Phillies comments and them to promote their season and how “they’re the team to beat,” comments from Flash Gordon and Shane. Whatever.
Maybe he only covered one team at a time? They don’t actually train that close to each other-Clearwater’s on the west coast of FL, Port St Lucie on the east…
Then cover both teams and then write the article? Stark has always been a little biased against the Mets, hence his coverage on the Johan trade rumors.
I believe ESPN covered Beltran’s statement. I don’t see why Stark is personally responsible for going over that ground again.
Because if you want to write an article about “a new rivalry,” how about getting both sides. if you want to just the phillies side the story, fine, just title it that way.
what, are you in charge of stark’s fan club or something?
You’re right, ESPN doesn’t cover the Mets enough.
Google tells us Bob Klapisch covered Beltran’s side of it for ESPN, without giving us the Phillies side in his article. How dare they have more than one writer??!??
Fact checking Mets fans again:
“Because if you want to write an article about “a new rivalry,” how about getting both sides. if you want to just the phillies side the story, fine, just title it that way.”
Title of story:
Phillies’ response to Beltran: ‘Let’s get it on’
Jason Stark is from Philadelphia.
YOu guys watch Sizemore play in the playoffs, hardly his fault for his team losing to a stack sox club…The dude is legit and can play CF for my team anyday…Not a CF in the game right now I’d take over him at his age/contract/ and skills. Now you are all high on the mets are the santana deal, and a new season but folks come on…Beltran is a headcase…when it matters the man will curl up into a ball and shit the bed again…tell me when it REALLY DOES MATTER WHEN YOUR SEASON IS ON THE LINE HAS HE STEPPED UP AND PLAYED GREAT? PEOPLE THAT LAST 2 WEEKS STRETCH TELL ME ONCE HE PUT THAT TEAM ON HIS SHOUDLERS LIKE WRIGHT DID AND DELIVER…NOT ONCE…Im a huge mets fan but im looking 2 years down the line for our title…
for a lot of fans out there, Beltran will never be able to be disassociated with striking out to end the ‘06 season. It’s like, thats the only thing he’s ever done as a Met, and that’s sad. I realize Seizmore is a great player, but who cares? Were you serious when you said get him on the Mets? This isn’t your fantasy league buddy. Beltran has done plenty for this team, we wouldn’t have even been able to be in game 7 of the ‘06 NLCS without him, people forget how good he played in the rest of that series. Just one at bat defines him, its just sad. It’s like you expect these people to be robots that perform whenever you want them to. Players fail, people fail, but most of the time, this guy has gotten it done.
somewhere in Cleveland, a deranged fan is bitching about Casey Blake and ranting on a blog to “GET DAVID WRIGHT IN HERE NOW”
…hate to tell ya buddy, we ain’t getting Grady Sizemore anytime soon, and even if we could, Beltran has outhit him each of the last 2 years:
2006:
Sizemore – .290/.375/.533, 28 HR, 132 OPS+
Beltran – .275/.388/.594, 41 HR, 150 OPS+,
2007:
Sizemore – .277/.390/.462, 24 HR, 122 OPS+
Beltran – .276/.353/.525, 33 HR, 126 OPS+
And they are pretty close defensively. Sizemore steals a few more bases (55 to Beltran’s 41 over the past 2 years), but Beltran has a much better SB%, so let’s call that a wash. All that put together means Beltran is pretty definitely a better player right now than Sizemore. Sizemore’s only advantages are he’s younger and he’s popular with the ladies.
Beltran’s prediction for 2007:
“We’re gonna be in the World Series. We’re gonna get there, we’re gonna get there. I have faith that we’re gonna get there. There are so many good people here, so many good players that have been waiting for this moment and we are gonna accomplish that.”…
“As a guy who once aspired to be a boxer growing up, Myers never met a battle he thought was worth backing away from.”
Priceless.