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Oliver Perez, who was represented by Scott Boras – and the Mets, who were represented by David Cohen – had their arbitration hearing yesterday, in which Perez was seeking $6.5 million, while the Mets have offered $4.725 million.
According to Jon Heyman at SI.com, Perez won his arbitration hearing and will earn $6.5 million in 2008 - after which he is eligible to be a free agent.
…great, so the player should be happy…now, can we move on…
Multiple reports from the last week suggested that Boras has every intention of getting Perez to free agency, regardless of any previous attempts by the Mets to sign him long-term.
man, he is gonna get paaiiiid next winter…
Unless…
shhh
Scott Boras is the DEVIL!
Say goodbye to OLLIE!!! He will be on the Yankees or Red Sox next season, so, let’s hope he makes 2008 bIG!!!
I thought performance didn’t matter for arbitration.
ANYBODY GET THE TICKETS DRAWING EMAIL YET FROM THE METS?
I think the emails usually come around 5 or 6 o’clock.
Yea, I was selected…FINALLY… All the other times, Mets/Yankees, Playoffs, etc, I was turned down. I got my message this morning, and it says I can buy any combination of games to a maximum of 6 tickets (total). We have a lot of Met fans in the family, so I guess six of us will be going to one of those games.
No, he’s gonna get paid. He’s young, and he’s lefty, and he throws serious heat. Whatever people may think of his mechanics and makeup, there is always going to be a pitching coach out there willing to work with him when he struggles. Plus, he is a gamer. There’s gonna be teams out there that will overpay for him, even if his season isn’t as good as 2007.
I dont get how Chien Ming Wang lost his arbitration then…
That guy won 38 games the past 2 years and was one of the best pitchers in the AL.
What does arbitration take into account??
It’s all relative, I believe.
I think they use one big case to compare everyone else to… they used Dontrelle Willis to compare to Wang, which is why he lost… he got the same money Dontrelle got at that point of his career
Willis settled with the Marlins before he went to arbitration. I don’t see any reason why the salary paid by a small market money-strapped club would set any standard for arbitration hearings. Doesn’t seem to make sense to me.
Wang lost because he called himself the Michael Jordan of Taiwan. MLB makes about $3 million a year from Taiwan and he’s no MJ.
If Wang lost (and he really lost bad) because of such a petty reason, then he needs a new agent. The arbitrator also needs to be looked into.
A player should lose because his stats/performance don’t stack up to a certain standard, not because of what he or his agent may or may call him.
Wow, Wang couldn’t even get 4.6 million (the Yankees’ figure) in arbitration and Perez gets considerably more? I’m sure part of it was based heavily on ERA, but Ollie had one of the most deceptive ones on the staff. He gave up a ton of unearned runs, many on his own errors. And Sterns is right that Wang’s 2-year record is much better than OP’s 2-year record. Boras must be a much better debater than Wang’s agent and/or the representative for the Yankees’ side is much better than who the Mets used.
doesn’t the amount have to do with service time as well performance? I know its more then just performance that gets taken into account.
I don’t know about service time. If so, that would explain it, but I’ve never heard of that affecting arb amounts.
Forgetting about OP’s 20 unearned runs, Wang’s league and part adjusted ERA is even better than OP’s. And he pitched more innings than OP. It has to be something like service time or else this arb ruling just makes no sense.
darkstar, when Jeter won his arb hearing, he was in his first year of arb eligibility. At the time, Jeter set a record for arb money. Come to think of it, Howard is in his first year of arb eligibility too. So I really don’t think service time is a factor. I think it’s stats, how good the sides are at arguing their case, and the arbitrariness of a particular arbitrator. I would be shocked if the same arbitrator heard Wang and OP’s cases.
In arbitration either the player or the team wins. There is no middle ground. So if a team puts in $2 million and the player puts in $15 and the decision is the player wins they get all $15 million. So comparing Wang to Perez isn’t very realistic because they put in different numbers.
Yeah, I know that’s how arb works in baseball. And yes, it is realistic to compare Wang and Perez. Because the figure Wang was asking for is the same as what the Mets offered Perez. And Wang couldn’t even get that. Realistically, based on their relative stats/performance over the last year or last two years, Wang is the more valuable pitcher. Therefore he should have at least gotten his $4.6 million. That’s what he was asking for.
Maybe they looked at his strikeout totals and couldn’t stop laughing.
Wang is in his first year of Arb eligibility and made the min of 489 K last year
OP is in his last year (3rd) of Arb eligibilty and made 2.3 Mil last year..
thats most surely the reason for the gap.
Howard went from 900 K to $10 million so this logic does not fly.
Ryan Howard in three full seasons has won the Rookie of the Year and MVP awards and then had another top-5 MVP vote finish; he’s not exactly a typical first-year arbitration candidate.
from Espn.com
“But in the end, this case didn’t turn out to be about service time — the factor that determines most arbitration awards. It was about the fact that Ryan Howard is a historic player. A really historic player. There’s only player in history who compares to this man. And it isn’t Pujols, Cabrera or anyone else of this generation.”
Ryan Howard doesn’t eat nearly as many hot dogs as the Babe!
I really hope we can re-sign Ollie once he hits free agency. I think he will come to realize what great situation he’s in here on the Mets. While I don’t think he’ll receive Sabathia money, he should do very well on the open market and I’m hopeful the Mets will make every effort to retain him.
However, it kind of sucks that his agent most likely won’t abide a “hometown discount” for his client. Then again, Boras may feel the need to rebuild his public image somewhat, given the current negative perception among the media and some high profile players. in which case he may consider allowing the Mets a little more flexibility in negotiations with his client…Hopefully. I think Ollie is a great, quirky, talented player and I’d really like to watch him continue his growth in a Met uniform.
I don’t think Boras gives a whit about his public image. He wants to get paid and get his clients paid. The players who have turned on him (A-Rod and Sheffield..as if anyone cares what he says anymore) are huge earners on their own at this point in their careers but the young studs who want to get paid will go with Boras because he gets the kwan.
I hate to say it, but unless the Mets pony up serious cash next offseason, then Ollie is long gone. After Johan this year and the age at some positions, I’d bet on the latter.
It is, IMO, inaccurate to cal lit a “home town” discount. It is really a sign a year early to remove the injury risk discount. So when Zambrano or Peavy signed, they were mitigating the risk that they would get hurt in their walk year.
I don’t recall seeing guys actually hit FA, then sign for less with their current team.
He’s a goner. I have already moved him into Glavine territory as a rent a player. But then again, I have never been a huge fan of his. To much hype, not enough dominance given his supposedly great stuff. He has his moments that make everybody go WOW …then poof!… he struggles again.
Given the Mets luck, Santana and Pedro will help him, he’ll get it together, win 18 and head out to the…. Braves….or Phillies.
Phillies could never afford him. Not a chance.
I think OP’s future status with us, is exactly the reason, I would not mind taking a flyer on a guy like Freddy Garcia. We need to stockpile good arms or at least suspect arms with good pedigree. If we lose out on OP, Garcia would be fully healed by next year and might help us after the All-Star break. He would be like the mid-season pickup you would not have to trade for.
i agree….and pray pelfrey is finally ready to step up, because with Duque talking retirement, we HAVE to sign pedro, thats still only 4 guys…i’ll take Freddy for 09
Hopefully he’ll have another good year and then leave, opening up a spot for Sabathia.
keep dreamin
lol
Does Ollie even like the Mets? He seems a little bit of an outcast on this team for some reason…
Oliver Perez will be a NEW YORK YANKEE…mark it down.
And he’ll crack under the pressure and revert back to his old self.
I agree that he is a lock for the Hankees next year. Probably already have the contract drafted to save time.
So, as much as I like Ollie and would like to see the Mets keep him, I will get immense pleasure if he gets $100,000,000 from the Stanks, and reverts back to bad Ollie form.
Off topic, but there was a link to an ESPN article that got pulled re: the greatest pitching performance of all time…it made me do a little digging on Bob Gibson’s remarkable 1968, which to me is pretty clearly the most incredible season a modern pitcher has ever had. Everyone knows about the 1.12 ERA (sick), but there were several other statistics around that year that are dumbfounding…
In his nine losses (22-9), he had a 2.14 ERA. If the Cardinals had scored four runs or more in each of his 34 starts, he would have been 30-2. If the Cardinals had scored only 2 runs per start, he still would have gone 23-10. If they had scored only 1 run per start, he still would have had a winning record (13-10).
His ERA was 63% better than the rest of the NLs, and 44% better than the runner-up.
He had a 1.83 ERA, but a 9-9 record, in games in which he did NOT pitch a shutout (he had 13)
In June and July, he pitched 99 innings and allowed 2 runs…that’s 2…runs…one was on a wild pitch, one was on a bloop double that was fair by inches…those two plays were what prevented him from pitching 10 straight shutouts…
His road ERA was 0.79
In the previous year, he was 3-1 with a 0.96 ERA in September after returning from a broken leg. He was then 3-0 with a 1.00 ERA in the World series.
That’s inhuman…
As a kid I loved watching Gibson (even though I was a Met fan). He was one mean dude with great stuff. A player looked at him wrong and he would buzz him into the dirt.
Those stats are just sick.
i am absolutely FLOORED by this..this might be the greatest performance of any player in ANY sport…
I really hate Boras for making players I like look like greedy A-Holes. I know its all Boras and not perez, but it tends to eat a way at an image.
Lets just say if hes pitching and gives up some big Homers while the mets have a huge lead, I will kind of be happy because its keeping his cost down.
I hope Ollie drops Boras. Take Peter Greenberg as his agent, he just negotiated the largest contract for a pitcher ever.
i really hope we can hang onto him but im worried boras is just going to go nuts and ask for a 7 year contract, around 15 a year, and thats just absurd. its really too bad we basically took this kid and turned him around for the better so he COULD make the big money and now his agent is going to say thanks for making my job easier and then cash in somewhere else. i hate scott boras.
Guaranteed he used the 2004 season (which was mediocre aside from strikeouts) as “unlocked potential” or some BS and compared it to last season. Bet he never brought up the embarassing 06 season. I’m actually curious as to what his argument was or will we never figure it out?
how was 2004 mediocre? he won 12 games for a bad Pirates team. He kept his ERA under 3 (2.98) and struck out a metric buttload of batters.
That’s much better than mediocre.
ha, metric buttload
at that rate the yankees can have him.. lets see what Omar can do with the two draft picks.
if you want to blame someone blame OP, not Boras. It’s his decision whether or not to go elsewhere.
Considering Gil Meche got 10 mil a season, Ollie comes at a bargain for us this season. And he’ll likely command around 12-14 mil a season when he goes into free agency… Unless we sign him beforehand, which is admittedly unlikely at this point. I’d offer him that much now, and he’d be wise to take it, but it’s not my money to spend, so that makes it easy for me to spend it. And that’s why Omar really couldn’t offer him that much before he puts up another big year like last season.
Blah blah, blah…
Basically, I’m saying I hope we can sign him.
in Ollie’s defense, there have been a number of things i’ve read throughout the last couple of years that says he’d “prefer to play on the west coast” i.e. California…so watch the Dodgers…
that being said, it’s no secret i’d love to steam roll Boras aka the Anti-Christ. He’s easily one of the most wretched, pile of puke, “human” beings walking the planet today
And if it wasnt for him, i’d feel very confident about havin OP in our future..
I don’t know if its fair to kill Boras. Keep in mind he works for his clients, not the other way around. If Ollie tells him he’d like to play on the West Coast, he’ll try to get as much money out of the West Coast teams that he can. If he tells him that he’d give the Mets a hometown discount, then Boras works with that. Ollie has the final decision power.
Boras is going to tell Perez to take the most money and Perez will leave and ruin his career. Look what he did to Weaver he never should of left St. Louis and Loshe still dose not have a job! Perez found a home with the Mets and he should stand up to Boras if he was smart but, I dont see Oliver doing that. Boras is a real A$$!
As fans, we have to change our mindset about this business with Boras and him putting his clients in bad situations (i.e., Weaver).
The problem is, WE love the game and WE love our team. The players and Boras love the money.
I think that we need to realize that most of the players don’t even care any more whether they win or lose or whether the team they are on is good or stinks. They simply want the most money.
It can break your heart as a fan to realize that you care more about wins and losses than the player does, but that’s the reality. Do you think Jeff Weaver really cares whether he wins another game in his life? He’s still going to get paid. Anymore, these players are looking to set themselves up for a big payday and they’ll let the chips fall where they may.
It’s like the old saying, “Money can’t buy you happiness, but it can buy you a yacht big enough to sail right up alongside it.” Or substitute, “…but it can by you the type of misery you prefer.
That’s the modern athlete. They take the most money and when the game is over, the go to their home or their hotel room or condo and they don’t interact with anyone on the team until they show up the next day for the game. The kind of money they make affords them the ability to live a lifestyle that is largely insulated from the criticism. They only have to deal with that at the ballpark, then they go their own way.
So you see, it is the rare athlete (David Wright) that actually cares about improving and winning and losing. That is why no athlete will EVER learn a lesson from guys like Jeff Weaver. To them, he’s not in a bad situation. He’s just rich.
OP will wind up with a west coast team.
I see pedro getting another deal ( 2years) and signing a free agent for the #5 slot.
Pelfrey hoepfully will step up and be our 4th guy.
There will be plent to choose from a number 5 guy.
i also hope we draft a couple college arms early and get them in the system.
Our money and there will be plenty should be targeted for Tex at first base. That will kill the Braves and give us a huge bat for the middle of the lineup.
Having Santana simply changes everthing when you are doing your future planning. Having Wright/Reyes/Beltran is similar.
they are the foundation you build around. Mets are in really good shape for the next 5 years.
With Ollie I say we offer him a little more than Silva for 4 years. Let him know that if he turns that down then he will be judged based on this season and will have as much chance as other potential FA of signing with the Mets.
List of potential FA next season.
Perez
Sabathia
Burnett
Garland
Livan
Jennings
2 from japan
Lackey (TO)
Lowe
Penny
Prior
Morris
Sheets
Out of that list you have to remember we are not necessarily looking for another Perez 07. We are looking for a consistant #4/5 as long as we resign Pedro and Pelfrey is ready.
There is a lot of depth there. You know, if Prior Sabathia, Sheets, Garland and Burnet have solid years, they will bring O.P.s price down.
I would be willing to pay him $12-14M and thats it.
That’s exactly my point. Offfer him fair Silva money and if he turns it down say you know there is the potential that you don’t have as good of a season and with all the pitchers on the market you end up with much less.
Don’t see what the problem is. Why shouldn’t the Mets pay Ollie what he’s worth. Can you guys really say he’s not worth $6.5 million? If he performs like last year, he’s worth more than that.
You really don’t understand a market do you? It’s not about what he is worth, its about getting him as cheap as possible. When you go in and buy a car you don’t pay sticker price do you?
In FA, the market would tell you he’s worth $10 million. However, under arbitration, I’d say he’s worth at least $6.5 million. Of course they want him as cheap as possible, but we’re not talking about cars, we’re talking about a player’s salary.
Let me put it to you in a way you might understand. In terms of fairness, would you rather your employer pay you the least possible because of “the market”? or Would you rather they pay you what your worth based on your contributions?
Even if you don’t agree and say it’s “the market”. Your car argument only makes sense when you have a high supply and low demand. Here, there is a low supply and high demand for young-quality lefties. So, probably not going to pay below sticker price.
Either way, I hope it doesn’t hurt the team in the long run.
Which pitcher was it that said something like “I wish I could dye myself left-handed”?
In this case, the Mets were greedy inept screw-ups or so it appears. Maybe they just felt they had nothing to lose, because they knew that Perez was gonna be more expensive than they wanted to pay once the 08 Season ended, but the guy was worth every penny and more than what he ended up getting. Why not let the guy feel good about the Mets. It probably won’t amount to much, but considering Santana and Perez won nearly the same amount of games last season, it seems silly to not give Perez his 6.5 mil or whatever it was. He helped the Mets out a lot since joining. They could have shown a little more gratitude also, especially when you think about his 06 playoff performance.