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Willie Randolph talked with reporters and explained that his team’s relationship to the Phillies is not yet a full-blown rivalry, though he 
hoped it gets to that level, because, as he said.
“It gives you that instant incentive to go out and kick someone’s butt…And I think we’re lacking that in the game.”
The notion of a heated rivalry began over the weekend, when Carlos Beltran sent a message to the Phillies and Jimmy Rollins, who were then asked by reporters to respond to Beltran.
In the Daily News, John Harper goes back to Beltran, to get his response to Rollins’s comments in response to his comments.
…wait, i’m getting dizzy…slow down…
Beltran, as quoted by Harper, while smiling and saying:
“I know probably when we go to Philly I’m going to hear a lot of things, but that’s all right, I’m not worried about that. This is good for baseball. A lot of people are focusing on the steroids thing. We’re putting the focus back on the game.”
…he’s right…and that light-hearted, smiley response is exactly what willie is saying, in that these rivalries tend to be a bit softer than what you think when you imagine a real rivalry…and so, let it play out…let’s see what happens when these two teams actually face each other on the field, not just in the newspapers…then, and only then, will we be able to truly call this a rivalry…
…that said, i’m looking forward to the 19 games they’re set to play against one another through the course of the year…
For more on Randolph’s commentary on what defines a rivalry, check out the Star-Ledger, Newsday, Journal News, SI.com and the Bergen Record.
Lastly, during a recent interview with Sports Radio 950 in Philadelphia, ESPN.com’s Jayson Stark said he recently overheard players in the Phillies locker room suggesting, ‘There will be a brawl.’
Pedro Martinez, on brawling, as quoted in New York Post.
“I don’t believe there’s a reason to be fighting, but we’re over here. Basically, if [they're] going to have to brawl or whatever, we’re over here. We’ll wait…I love Jimmy Rollins, I love [Brett] Myers, I love everybody…but I would love to beat the [snot] out of them on the field.”
…ya know, i miss pedro…sure, he pitched a few games there at the end of last season, but my mind was elsewhere…freaking out over losing…but, i look forward to watching a full season of pedro, back in the saddle again…
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yap. baseball does need that. it’s a good thing
Vote for Pedro.
That’s the Pedro I always loved … talking about “beating the snot” out of guys!!
I love Pedro’s “no-bull” policy on talking smack. I really do believe that he’ll come out there being ready for an ass kicking. Anyone got any video of any fight’s he’s ever gotten into (aside from kicking Don Zimmer’s ass)?
I want to know who these tough talking, anonymous Philly players are anyhow? It’s not really tough talk if you say “and Jayson don’t tell anybody who I am”. It would be nice if somebody would point this out, whether it’s the media or a Met.
I was thinking the same exact thing.
The Phillies are a bunch of scared little bitches.
i bet it wasnt even one of the big name guys, i doubt rollins or howard or utley or hamels are dumb enough to say something like that. it would be funny if it was some dude on the cusp of making the big league squad and hes just trying to fit in and get on the good side of players in the clubhouse.
I missed Pedro. He is one cool dude. I think he will be the engine that makes the Mets go this year…while everyone is looking to Santana. Despite hisage, Pedro is still an ACE becasue he knows how to pitch and he has a lot of pride. So I hope he goes out and crushes this year.
the reason’s players don’t hate each other like in the old days is because they’re all millionaires now, back in the day, they were fighting for every last inch, every last paycheck, now everybody’s rich and happy, but hey, thats just how it is. I still think we can get a rivalry going, its rarer, but it can definitely happen, but I agree, we’ll have to wait till the games start to see. I do like Beltran’s comments though, putting the focus back on baseball. Also, I love Pedro. That is all.
They also tended to stay with one team throughout their career, so they didn’t need to worry too much about offending one team and then being on that team a few seasons later.
Free agency changed all that – not that I’m saying free agency is a bad thing as the owners were treating players like indentured servants.
good point
back in the old days the bonuses players got for being on a team that made or won the World Series was a real incentive to try to win. In a lot of cases that bonus almost doubled their yearly salary, so the regular season meant a lot more to those guys, and they hated anyone who was trying to take their meal money away from them, quite literally. Also, before free agency, you played with and against the same guys year-to-year, there wasn’t as much roster turnover, so your teammates became your family and the other teams players were your enemy. Part of me wishes baseball was still like that, and another part of me is glad we have everyone on our roster that wasn’t from our farm system (which is just about everyone but Reyes and Wright at this point)
We should be the Phillies rival not the other way around. When we answer their comments it is making it sound as if we are on the same level as the Phillies. I just hope the Mets really pound on them this year!
I have often thought that the lack of brawls the past two Mets season was bad for camaraderie on the team; but, I am not for a brawl over a war of words.
“We’re the team to beat.”
“No, we are.”
It’s so juvenile.
I am for a brawl when the other team’s pitcher throws at the batter following a home run, or when your pitcher drills an opponent in retaliation. In those cases, it’s time to brawl to support your teammates, and I think those brawls are good because it brings a team together.
Now, the Phillies seem upset that their division title has been devalued because of the Mets collapse, and if the Mets begin a 3-year run of dominance in the NL East by acquiring Santana, the Phillies’ win last year will look like a fortuitous anomaly. If the Phillies are pissed about this, well, they should point out that the Mets’ collapse would have meant nothing if the Phillies had not gone out and beat the Mets 8 straight times.
Whether the Phillies won last year because the Mets collapsed or they went and took the division on the field can never really be settled. But, which team is better can be settled by which one goes on to have success over the next few years – neither team has an excuse for losing anymore other than the other team was better. The Mets have an ace; the Phillies have two MVPs and a healthy line-up worth 100 wins by Rollins estimation.
If the Phillies find themselves losing to the Mets early, and the talk of how the Mets blew the division last year perks up and how this year is a return to normal for the Mets, I think the Phillies will get frustrated (especially if Santana is holding down their lefties for 7-1 Mets wins after the Mets tee off on their bullpen) and the Phillies will start throwing at the Mets.
At that point, a brawl will be on because Pedro will not put up with that and neither will Santana.
I think you’re right about the next few seasons ultimately deciding how that 07 division looks in history (and whether it was lost or won).
If Pedro is pitching the opening day at Shea against the Phillies what he should do is stroll to the mound, act like it’s any other day, throw a 82 MPH change in the dirt to get Rollins off guard.
THEN
Send a nice 93 MPH cutter up and in at his head. That will surely create a nice start to the developing rivalry.
I think starting the game by going 2-0 to their MVP lead off hitter would not be the smartest thing for Pedro to do. Sending the right message has to come at the right time – perhaps his last inning or when the Mets are up by at least 3 runs…
It’s fun to talk up a Mets-Phils rivalry, but personally I see the Braves as a bigger threat to us than the Phils. The Braves pitching is far better than the Phils, and IF healthy could pose quite a challenge….
The Braves probably feel great right now flying under the radar; nobody’s talking about them, and they’re potentially every bit the threat philly thinks it is. I admit that I’ll feel more juiced for the philly games than I ever have been, but the Braves are still the ones I loooooooove to beat (and respect the most).
This seems more of a media created “rivalry” then anything else.
Exactly. If you have read the Philly press all offseason, they are just desperate for some sort of rivalry to fuel their team. Clearly, the Mets are the class of the division, and every time the Phils make these claims, it just further shows their inferiority complex. someone remind them our rival is atlanta
Clearly, the Phillies won NL East last year……please explain how that makes the Mets “the class of the division”…
It took an epic collapse for the Mets to lose the division. Odds say thats relatively unlikely to happen again soon.
The Mets are taking Pedro Martinez and Johan Santana into camp this year, not so last year. The Mets have upgraded at C and RF.
How are they not the class? The Pats are still the class of the NFL, I don’t care if they lost 1 game.
Correct me if I’m reading this out of context but I believe currently the Mets may be a little tougher on paper this year mainly due to a bolstered rotation granted Maine/Perez have another up year and health issues barring. No question the Phillies have a better offense, or should I say more consistent, offense on paper but the rotation is fairly suspect, especially if you look at the records of the starters last year and especially the ERAs. Hamels looks like the only one that could really hold his own. Now I know a productive offense can back up a mediocre pitcher (06′ Steve Trachsel anyone?) but a great rotation can shut down a productive offense more often than not.
The offenses are fairly similar- Philly scored 88 more runs and they play in a little league park.
Willie,
You cannot be comparing the Patriots and their three Super Bowl titles to the Mets. The Mets have won what exactly?? Obviously, Santana is a huge pickup and makes them most people’s choice to win the division but don’t get carried away…
and the inferiority thing has got to go….the bastard sons of NY should not be calling out other teams/cities.
then perhaps the fans in other cities shouldn’t keep hopping over to our blog to try to stir things up.
BillyGoat:
Then I compare the Mets to the Celtics (perhaps you watch the NBA). The Cavs won the east last year… then the Celtics got Kevin Garnett and Ray Allen. Now they are the class, as are the Mets.
Ok, that one at least makes sense….still, the Celtics got two superstars which makes up 40% of their starting lineup in EVERY game…Santana is merely 1 of 25 who only plays in 20% of his teams games….
Definitely nit picking here, but still think it’s gonna be a good race.
There would be no rivalry if Jimmy Rollins didn’t talk smack last offseason… or if the Mets just went out and won the division. I think the whole rivalry thing is coming out of NY more than Philly… I wouldn’t ping the “true rivalry” tag on any team the Mets play. Realistically, think about it – they’re all “division rivals” but there’s no real rivalry – which usually comes equipped with some sort of history…. I think the Yankees are closer to a real rival to the Mets ORGANIZATION because they fight for the rights to the city with each other – for the fan base, jersey sales, advertising – you know, things that actually bring the money in…
no, the yankees are not the Mets real rivalry, that makes absolutely no sense. Rivalries should be played out on the field, not in checkbooks.
There’s a difference between “should” and “is”. If you read correctly, you would have seen the capital letters (inserted for people just like you) that spell, “organization”. I also clearly pointed out that there is no “true rival” for the Mets…regardless of whether that makes sense to you or not, that’s how it is…
Completely true.
There was no competition between the Mets and the Phillies last year. No rivalry. The Mets were the team to beat all last year and everyone else was distant and could not get out of their own way for much of the season. Up until the last 2 weeks the Mets had the best record in the NL and then the bottom completely fell out and the Phillies got hot. I was not the Mets saying oooooh those Phillies are making us mad, it was man we suck right now. I give Philly credit for getting hot at the right time, but there was no rivalry and unless they are close all year this year there won’t be one this year either.
Metsblog is the blog to beat.
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Sorry, I just thought I would change things a little.
Wow, I think I have a man crush on Pedro Martinez
You know, it almost seems like the phillies hate the mets more then the mets hate the phillies. If anyone should want a brawl, it’s the mets, not the phillies. The phillies beat the crap out of the mets last year, why would THE PHILLIES be the ones to want a brawl? If anyone should want a fight, it’s the mets for getting embarassed, not the phils. It almost seems like they feel they’re the ones that have something to prove, as if they know the mets made it easy for them to win the division last year and they have to win it more convincingly this year to legitimize last year’s events. Sounds like they doubt themselves and have an inferiority complex.
See Beltrans comments over the weekend…
dude,
why would the phillies feel inferior to the mets? Am I missing something?? Are the Mets the Yankees of the late 90’s? The Red Sox of the last few years??? What have they done besides lose an NLCS to a weaker team and follow it up by choking away a division title???
I agree with you. The phils have NO REASON to feel inferior, however, correct me if i’m wrong but the whole “brawl” comment from the phillies players, not the mets. So my point is, what’s motivating these comments? I think deep down they feel inferior since th emets got Santana.
Dude,
As I was saying yesterday, we don’t know what was said, what was asked, etc….these teams respect each other, but obviously there is no love lost…a player might have suggested that something could go down…speculating about tempers flaring is a far cry from coming out and saying we’re gonna go fight the mets…maybe they did say something to that effect, but the point is, we will prob never know…
i think the media is just lookin for any juicy quotes they can get their hands on….
agreed
agreed, im not familiar with the personalities of the bench players on philly but it just seems like “we’re gonna brawl” isnt something that would come out of the mouths of one of the big name guys. it couldve been taken out of context or interpretted wrong but either way i just dont think real brawls happen anymore, they are shoving matches but thats about it nowadays.
As a Met fan it pains me to agree with you, Goat, but I do.
I don’t understand how after the Phils won the division and the Mets watched the playoffs from home that the Phils would have an inferiority complex. If anything, I think the Phils talk is more an aim to get inside the Mets players’ heads.
Just the fact that they are trying to “get inside the mets heads” is an indication that they feel they need to somehow get the psychological leverage, which means they feel they dont have the leverage to begin with. Look, they won the division, they have nothing to prove. They were better then the mets. They need to keep their mouths shut, let the mets talk all the crap they want, and if the phils really are as good as rollins says they are they wouldnt need to respond.
I don’t know that they’re trying to get inside the Mets heads — I think my point is just that they know that all the pressure is on the Mets this year, and by talking a little they’re just fueling the fire.
I think both the Mets and Phils are confident — which is great for a rivalry.
Go Mets!
It’s still obvious that the Phillies fill slighted that no one talks about how they got hot an won the division. It’s that the Mets lost it. And now as regining champions they are still not predicted to win it and the only time anyone talks about them is when Rollins makes some big prediction or when the Mets make reference to them.
Feel, man rough day.
No doubt the Phillies are pissed that they won the division and all the media talks about is the Met’s collapse, Santana and how the will win it this season.
and i still think when it all comes down to it and people start making their predictions alot of people will pick the phillies because they wont want to look stupid if the mets fail to win it again. and if theyre wrong no one will care bc the media hates the mets anyway and will never give them credit for anything anyway.
Did anyone catch Wright’s comments in one of the articles linked in this post? In response to Stark’s claim that some people in the Philly clubhouse talked about a brawl Wright said that winning and losing should be done with class and that fighting, rightly or wrongly, should take place in the stands (he did say that he doesn’t condone fights amongst fans but he admits that it happens).
Anyway, I think a Phillies-Mets rivalry is long overdue. The Giants/Eagles and Rangers/Devils/Flyers have all inspired some memorable moments in the regular season and post-season and two northeastern cities just seems so natural.
I certainly agree with those that say it takes time for a true rivalry to build up, although given the proximity of NY and Philly I think that process will be condensed quite a bit if both teams remain competitive for the next few seasons.
I do wonder what some of these preseason claims say about what the clubhouse will be like this year. I would hope that no one gets “bored” because it seems like we’re going to have to win at least 101 games this year to win the division.
Isn’t it funny we Philly so much that we don’t even want them as our rival
It’s not even that I hate them. I just have no feelings towards them. I do not view them as a consistant threat. The Braves were a rivalry bec they were great and were the team to beat year in and year out. These teams have not even been in competition with each other but two weeks.
exactly
i was always under the impression that the mets main rivals were the braves, phillies (because they play in the same division, have had heated exchanges and both have ‘met killers’ on their teams -namely, Larry Jones and P. Burrell) and yankees (due to the NY thing).
I honestly have never even considered philly at all until last year, and even then didn’t take them seriously until the last weekend of the season. It’s been all about the braves. I thought philly was cute, like “aww, they think they matter!”
like I said above, I’m definitely up for those games this year more than ever, but I’ll always have an eye on the braves.
Of course, the Mets have finished ahead of the Phillies exactly once in the last 7 seasons. Every opinion here seems based on the Mets 2006 season-were any of you fans before that bandwagon year?
no, we all jumped on board in 06, that’s why we don’t understand basic tenets of baseball, like luck and that a bandbox is a tide that lifts all boats.
but wait, I should try to help you understand: it doesn’t matter what the phills did, because to many of us, if we didn’t beat the braves, then we weren’t in the conversation anyway. The Braves were the cream of the crop, number one. After that, who really cares? congratulations on being second place more often than us, and for making the playoffs once, like us. Hey, you’re almost like us! Except for being less improved from last year, when we both won the same amount of playoff games, of course.
Mets were lucky in 06?
I know they were lucky several times in 07..
Lucky the Phils got off to a slow start.
Lucky they got a rainout that just happened to set up a series in Philly where the Mets had their rotation set up and the Phils started several 8th/9th starters
Lucky the Phils lost 4 games in the last 2 weeks to give the Mets a chance on the last day of the season
Lucky the Phils lost 5 of the 6 starting pitchers they thought they would need at the start of the season
Right.
When you finish anywhere from 3rd to last most seasons, it doesn’t matter who you consider your rival-you’re just also rans.
2001 Mets-3rd
2002 Mets-last
2003 Mets-last again
2004 Mets-fourth
2005 Mets-fourth
Yeah, Braves were scared of you those seasons.
this is what makes it hard to take you seriously: I’m not being disingenuous, and if I’m dissing the phils, it’s a byproduct of truth. Yes, we were lucky in 06 (until the cards came, of course), but we also much better than your team. Of course the Braves weren’t scared of us; we never beat them, why should they be? And that’s a great analogy for our two teams, if you ignore the fact that the braves won for a decade, and your team was the benificiary of our bad play and bad luck. And please don’t cry about injuries, we had our share.
You keep coming back to this, as if we don’t acknowledge the phils’ tough play against us. We do, I do, but your willfully obtuse refusal to acknowledge that a bouncing baseball or an ump’s bad mood had as much to do with it as anything else is ridiculous.
Obviously, we were close in talent. Two flawed, mediocre teams, that both won shite in the end.
and all that said, Mets will win the East in 08.
so what, now you’re a braves troll?
dammit, I replied to the above and it was lost. stupid roadrunner…
essentially: yes, also rans like you, and yes, we were lucky in 06 in addition to being much better than your team
Maybe some of the comments the Mets made last year have something to do with it.
They were very dismissive, talking about how it was OK every time they got swept cause the Phillies were gonna finish behind them, they’d be dancing at the end, etc etc.
Phils fan here.
Whether or not you can really call this a rivalry is a matter of personal interpretation, but either way, it’s definitely shaping up to be one of the more interesting storylines of the season.
It’s also nice to see some national recognition for the teams–something that has certainly been missing in recent years.
Look at that last 3-game series in September last year–absolutely CRUCIAL series for both teams–and what did Fox and ESPN show that weekend? Obviously, they showed every friggin game of a boring series between the only two MLB teams they know exist, that couldn’t have had any outcome on the shape of the AL playoffs. Yeesh.