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In a report for SI.com, Jon Heyman explains that at one point this 
winter, the Mets were shopping Orlando Hernandez, ‘who is literally hurting from head to toe.’
According to Heyman, had the Mets been able to trade Hernandez, who did not draw much interest, they would have signed Kyle Lohse, who is still a free agent.
…i keep getting e-mails from fans who still believe the Mets should sign lohse…sure, if he’ll take a minor-league deal, which i doubt he’ll need to accept…despite el duque’s instability, i just can’t see guaranteeing a roster spot to lohse, since it will mean moving el duque to the bullpen - no questions asked…
Heyman also gives a break down of both side’s positions during the Oliver Perez arbitration case; as well as information on Ryan Howard’s next deal, Barry Bonds and the future of Freddy Garcia, among other things.
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And they could have had Bannister for free. Ugh. I knew that 2-year contract for El Duque would be a mistake.
And Boras cited the 2-year contract to El Duque as justification for Ollie’s contract in the arb hearing. And it worked. Double ugh.
I do think you sign Loshe and put El Duque in the bullpen. Unless the Mets are very confident in Pelfrey, we need another backup plan.
I bet we sign Garcia to a minor league deal, especially since the BoSox signed Colon.
Was reported the other day that Garcia has no interest in a Benson-type deal. He wants to keep rehabbing and try out for teams when he is ready, assuming he’ll create a bidding war among pitching-deficient contending teams. Think the annual Clemens carnival, minus the steroids and massive ego…
I think that’s actually pretty wise…come midseason, a bunch of teams who think they’re in it will at least give him a look, and if he waits until he’s throwing well to show himself at his best…
not a bad plan.
Damn, I can almost hear it now.
OH MY GOODNESH…FWEDDY GAWSHIA IS IN JAWJEZ BAWX!!!
Why not sign Lohse to a major-league deal? Why is Duque guaranteed a spot in the rotation until be officially breaks down?
It leaves us foolishly thin when the likes of Lohse – a more than serviceable #5 – are just waiting to be had.
I like Duque, but come on, the writing is on the wall. Do we get to the WS if he is healthy in 2006? No doubt. Do we make the playoffs if he doesn’t again get hurt and the worst time and give crucial Sept starts to Lawrence and Humber? No doubt.
We’re just asking for it to happen again. This guy has earned a guarantee with his arm, but lost it with the rest of his body.
I couldn’t agree more. Why do we put so much stock in a very fragile pitcher. I say sign Loshe and give him a shot. Move Duque to the pen (or better yet someone will find out shortly they need a pitcher you can trade Orlando) I wouldn’t let the pitcher dictate what we are going to do. I would feel much better with Lohse in there than Hernandez
Lohse has indicated he has no interest in a Minor League deal. You would have to guarantee him a roster spot to get him.
I wouldn’t mind doing something unconventional and signing Lohse and having Elduque take it easy for most of the season, just be a spot starter and some long relief here and there. Save him up for when he is needed, as you would much rather have him in a playoff rotation than a Lohse. It can’t hurt to have an extra starter when you have a rotation that consists of a guy who is breaking down by the hour, a pedro who is coming back from injury, and an unknown pelfrey. Give him a major league contract, if everything pans out with el duque, you have extra pitching, which cant hurt, maybe you can trade lohse at deadline. I just wouldnt want to leave us short when there’s someone out there to be had. Pelfrey has done nothing to warrant a 5th spot to this point.
Everyone is basically on point with this one, we are treating El Duque like he is a 12- 15 year veteran on this team and he deserves some sort of special treatment and more than the benefit of the doubt. The man is broken down after throwing an uncountable amount of innings between Cuba and the United States. He is a great player but if we can get another insurance policy in Loshe or Garcia why wouldnt we. Too bad El Duque doesnt want to pitch out of the bullpen, if he is a team player and that is his role, he should embrace that role, he has proven over the years, including last year that he is a good pitcher out of the pen. He can be that long relief, emergency starter type that we missed out with not having Oliver last year.
That’s what I’m in favor of….put El Duque into a Spot-Start/Long-Relief role to minimize his innings so hopefully he can actually stay healthy for once, and use someone like Lohse as the fifth starter. The only problem is I don’t think he’ll take to the role change well, he probably still feels like he can pitch every fifth day.
It A) Provides more depth when a Starter is down, as El Duque can also fill in. B) Allows us to hopefully keep El Duque healthier by resting him when he’s banged up, and C) Gives us a more reliable fifth starter in Lohse.
No interest in Lohse. I’m more than fine with Pelfrey who I think has shown, especially last September, that he _does_ have the ability to pitch. It creates a depth issue, but to that I reply, get minor leaguers in here.
and Pedro is coming back from an injury. He rushed back last year and succeeded more than most Mets, except maybe Pelfrey!, Now he’s just healthy. Do we think age will catch up with him? Eh, he’s not _that_ old. More likely being competitive with Santana and actually the downtime from pitching will more likely bring him back strong.
seven letters:
P-E-L-F-R-E-Y
The true question here is …Exactly what condition is Duque in?
If the man is truely “hurting head to toe” this early in S.T. then its time to cut ties. But if he’s healthy now (yeah, I know he’ll break down sooner or later) then Omar has little to no choice but to stay with him.
Also does anyone know if the Mets sign Loshe would it cost them a draft pick of any kind? The answer may have something to do with Omar’s reluctance.
No draft picks for Lohse. Although if the Mets (Or anybody else) sign Garcia then the Phillies will get a sandwich pick (From the league, not the Mets), so the longer he stays available the better, I guess.
the I guess Omar’s putting all his eggs in the Duque basket.
Assuming Loshe has moved on from expecting a 4 year, $45mill deal–it is almost March–I say we sign him. First, we will regret not doing so when el Duque goes down and Pedro take a July-Aug hiatus and we are stumbling with guys like Pelfrey and the usual subjects of Sosa, Vargas, etc. Second, we will regret when the Phils sign him to replace Meyers in the rotation, and move Meyers back into the closer role as Lidge’s injury lingers. Bottomline–you can never have too much starting pitching, and why not use our $ to take away options from competitors.
i cant imagine he would cost a draft pick. god help us all if a guy with a 5+ era is a class A free agent.
Think how much better of a collective psyche as a fan base we have since Johan arrived. We are fretting over an aging pitcher not being able to pitch every fifth day!
Don’t get me wrong, it’d hurt our rotation if he can’t go (experience standpoint and he when healthy he is a solid pitcher) but luckly we have Pelf waiting in the wings for that 5th spot.
I don’t know why but i am real optimistic about Pelf this year.
thats because you havent seen him pitch in 5 months.
And because his last outing was a good one.
and because some of us thought he showed improvement in performance and demeanor when he came back. (obviously subjective, though)
yeah while adding pitching depth is good, im definitely in favor of pelfrey getting starts when duque goes down. lohse is a solid number 5, but i still have faith that pelfrey has upper rotation potential. lohse is gonna eat up those starts that pelfrey can use to improve.
if you can find a way to get duque out of the rotation, whether that be by trade or the pen, then you can go and sign lohse as a backup starter. minor league deal only. get the kid in the rotation asap.
Garcia is a great option. Let Pelfrey cut his teeth (again). Stay away from Loshe.
Cool papa has it right. Lohse is not worth having. Pelfrey needs the space to develop and he is every bit Lohse’s equal now with much brighter upside. Garcia is a good fit for a number of reasons not the least of which is some rotation protection next year when we are poised to potentially lose Op, Pedro and El Duque. Further…Garcia is coming back by mid season or the latter part of the season and he will be fresh and ready at a time when we may need him.
I vote for a 2 yr deal with Garcia, stay away from Lohse and let Pelfrey develop either up here or down in AAA depending on Duque’s health.
Also, lets relax a bit. Spring Training is not even one week old. Pitchers are nowhere near ready. Duque was exceptional at times last year. Our best pitcher at times. He is not a bullpen guy. He has the ability to be a terrific starter and the best #5 starter in the league. Even if he gives you just 20 starts. 15 of them will be very solid and give the team a real chance to win those games.
the problem with signing lohse hinges on sticking El Duque in the pen, maybe the Mets just don’t want to do that, I really don’t see how he would be reliable in the pen over the course of a season. If Lohse wants a guaranteed contract, he has to be on the team, and so does El Duque, you can’t send either to the minors, so one of them would have to be in the pen, something i’m sure neither of them want to do, and may not be too good at. Sure, everyone remembers El Duque in pen for the ‘05 White Sox during the postseason, but beyond that he has very little experience doing it. I do’nt see how that equates to him being a good fit for that, considering he’s pretty adamant about not wanting to do it. We don’t need a disgruntled veteran like El Duque chirping all year. And the fact remains, he’s getting paid, the Mets aren’t going to just dump him if they think they can at least get somethign from him. For now, you let him be the #5 guy and you have Pelfrey in the wings.
Duque’s got nothing to lose and a lot of personal pride. I wouldn’t be surprised if he’d basically told the Mets he’s not throwing a pitch unless he’s in the starting rotation.
Given that neither Lohse nor Garcia seems ready to sign without a roster guarantee, that pretty much leaves the Mets in an either-or position.
As things currently stand, with Lohse and Garcia unsigned, and no teams in an obvious rush to wrap them up, there’s no need for the Mets to jump. They can wait until Duque goes down and see who’s available at that point. His stuff’s still filthy so why not ride him while we still can?
Of course, that backfires badly if it turns out Lidge is out long-term, and the Phils decide Myers is their closer again and sign Lohse, then Duque goes down early and Pelf doesn’t perform. I’m not too concerned though – that’s 3 ‘if’s that all have to happen. Maybe this turns out to be the year Duque makes it through 2/3 of the season before getting hurt, and Pelf comes in dominant after owning AAA. It’s about as likely.
Let me get this straight. You’re all recommending signing Kyle Lohse to keep him away from the Phillies. What the F*#cking F#*k? Did you invent stupid? WOW! Guess we’ll have to sign Jeff Weaver, Russ Ortiz, Odalis Perez and the rest of the free agent “class”, Let’s not forgot to pre-emptively trade for Carl Pavano and lock him up long term. He may get healthy one of these years and unlike Lohse, he has a chance, however small, to post an era under 5. Better not let the Phils get him. The phils and Lohse are not on terms anyway after lohse spurned an offer of twice what he will get now. Even if they could still do a deal let em. It’s kyle f*#king Lohse, not Brandon Webb. Why do you think hes still available after the start of Sping Training? They’d be doing us a favor by wasting their budget and roster flexibility on that chump. You guys are probably the first to blast Minaya for what you feel are “stupid moves”, shame on you. By the way, has everyone forgot how good El Duque iswhen he plays? He really is the equivelent of Moises Alou and no one questions his value. El Duque is OFTEN DOMINANT. With him, our entire rotation is OFTEN DOMINANT. No other team in baseball can say that. And Pelfrey and even Armas jr are better pitchers than lohse is now and figure to improve more than he ever will.
LETS GO METS!!!!!! CANT WAIT
i understand duque is a walking injury…. but to compare his ability to Lohse is just silly
DuqUE was the mets best pitcher last year, when he actually did pitch
Thank you. When El Duque pitched he was the Mets best pitcher. Geez everyone forgets that “little” point, don’t they?
Let him pitch when he can but be ready for when he inevitably breaks down. Sign Lohse, stick him in the bullpen, (and simultaneously cock block the Phillies) and let Pelfrey start in AAA.
I think I’d rather have Chet Steadman than Kyle Lohse pitch in the 5th spot of the rotation.
We’d get some cheezy electric guitar riffs when he throws the heater!
I have gone back and forth on this. if they really had 5 better options, and some depth, then it wouldn’t be a bad idea to just stick Duque in a reserve role. But, i don’t think they have that.
So, I will stick with what I said before. Put Duque in the rotation, and keep running him out there until he breaks. Get as many innings out of him as possible. With any luck, he will be back for the stretch run and playoffs!
What they do need then is some more back up that actually could be good if called on.
Assuming the starting 5 break camp healthy (Duque can have 2 extra weeks), then Pelfrey can go down and perfect his stuff in AAA, and will be the first man up when someone else goes down. And when he comes up, it should be to stay.
But, what happens if they need another guy? I had hopes for Armas, but Garcia by mid season could be perfect. If not, they are going to have to pray Sosa can do it again for a while, or a rookie bursts onto the scene (like Kendrik last year for the phils, or what’s his name on the Yanks).
Totally with you on this.
If Duque makes 20 starts, you could run your grandmother out there for the rest of the year and your #5 spot would still produce more over the year than the league average… by a lot.
If Duque goes down in June and Pelfrey comes up and performs – it’s still fine.
If Duque goes down in July and Pelfrey’s not looking ML-ready, Garcia could be a good option.
The only worry would be Duque and Pedro being down together. But what MLB club can afford to pay 7 genuine big-league starting pitchers? Neither the Yanks or the BoSox can say they have 7 genuine MLB starters on their books right now… at least, not 7 healthy ones.
If the need arises in the season, the odds are an option will be available. There’ll be a price-tag attached… but the odds are the gamble’s worth it.
This is exactly right. Even if Elduque only gets the same amount of starts as last year, if you average his numbers with what Pelfrey should get in the fill in spot it will still be better than Loshe’s numbers for the year.
Besides, I can’t understand why everyone is debating this. This is just media junk. It has never been mentioned by the Mets. Every converstation has had Elduque as a starter. In fact, he may not even be the #5.
While I understand your concern, I think Duque costing us the pennant in ‘06 is a bit of a stretch.