According to John Harper in the Daily News, every team is now looking for the next Joba Chamberlain.
…oh no…don’t do it…please…please don’t do it…
In Harper’s words, a Joba is basically defined as, “A young pitcher who went from A ball to a dominant major-league reliever in his first pro season.”
…i’m telling you, don’t do it…i know you want to…but, don’t…
In the report, Harper writes…
“The Mets believe they have such a candidate in 6-foot-5 reliever Eddie Kunz, the closer for two-time NCAA champion Oregon State whom they drafted last June. As Kunz himself said Tuesday, ‘The coaches here have been telling me they want to put me on that Joba Chamberlain trail.’…Actually, the Mets coaches also include Joe Smith in such conversations.”
…great, and now you’ve done it…they just couldn’t help it…
…how about letting joba be joba, and letting Eddie Kunz be Eddie Kunz…no comparisons…no fancy nicknames, like Generation K, etc…just let the kid develop and pitch…
…in fairness, harper’s column is very exciting, and has me hopeful that kunz can be the type of pitcher who one day may replace Billy Wagner as the team’s closer…and that’s exactly the point…i really, really don’t want to get my hopes up, when it comes to prospects…i think he’ll be good…i want him to be good…but, please, don’t tell me he’ll be good, before he is actually good…
{ 48 comments }
the thing that bothers me the most is that they make joba out to be a successful established veteran that’s a year or so from HOF. granted the man had a good 3/4 of a first season but lets not get crazy.
He’s a Yankee… Of course he’s a step away from the Hall of Fame…
He pitched something like 40 innings…
40 innings? I don’t even think he pitched 20 innings (I could be wrong but I think it’s closer to 20 than 40.) It’s amazing how Joba is the greatest thing ever. The guy has proven absolutely nooooooothing and for all I know, Kunz will end up being better than Joba. Both of them have a long way to go and a lot to prove. I’m sick of Joba…
24 in the majors. 88 in the minors.
I was going to say the same thing. I think Joba is a great talent and I’m not taking anything away from him, but can we let the guy pitch a whole season before we start using him as the “standard”? He’s still got a lot to prove.
joba chamberlain falls under the same category as coco crisp, guys who get way too much attention bc they have “cool” names. but seriously its pretty bad when someone who hasnt pitched a full season is now a type of player. how can someone be the next joba chamberlain when joba chamberlain isnt even the next joba chamberlain yet.
i hate to do this, but its funny how Mets fans react over Joba Chamberlain. Comparing him to Coco Crisp? saying he only gets attention because of his name? I know Mets fans have an inferiority complex, but c’mon, its ok, Joba is extremely talented, has he proven enough yet? Of course not, but that doesn’t mean he’s not a great talent and did great in his time up and is certainly projectable. I don’t like the comparisons, because Kunz isn’t even close to that league yet. But Mets fans getting all defensive about Joba is kind or ridiculous. He is very talented and ultimately probably will do pretty well in this league. I thought it was fun to watch him pitch as well. It has to be the Yankee thing, well obviously right?
pretty much right, it is the Yankee thing.
Darkstar … It is a Yankee thing but I don’t think it’s all Mets fans. I am actually looking forward to watching Joba pitch this year … I love the kids talent and even as a Mets fan, I feel fortunate that I’ll be able to watch him since I live in NY.
I do think he still has a lot to prove though, as I stated above … and that comment was in no way from any inferiority complex. I know you were directing that more at HTWZ … but I just thought that I’d point out that some Mets fans are capable of just being real.
right on, wasn’t responding to you at all actually, but good to know either way.
am gonna love to see what the league is going to do to him now that he’s no longer a secret…I’m sure they will adjust to him over the course of a full year…then we’ll see if he’s as great as everybody thinks he is…
Great. Now the first time Kunz blows up in a big spot you’re going to hear some idiot on the radio (likely between 1 and 6:30) screaming how he’s no Joba, and how awful the Mets farm system is compared to the Yankees.
The writers in this town would benefit from a few moments of thought before putting pen to paper.
I’ve been following all the Mets Minor League players and Kunz has not put up any numbers that suggests he’ll be the next anything. Maybe the numbers were poor because he’s never pitched that much in his life. Or maybe as other scouts say he just isn’t that good. I read the article and it is completely stupid to think somebody who couldn’t dominate hitters in Brooklyn last year will dominate in the the Majors this year. Joba Chamberlain was viewed by many scouts last year as a potential number one starter. His numbers in the minors were ridiculous, no comparison should be made. I’d be happy if he worked his way up and earned respect as a good pitcher, not because some idiot sportswriter is looking for anything to write about. Carlos Muniz and a couple people in Kunz draft class have the upper hand at this point because they have put up the numbers. Let’s have him get through AA with a pristine record before anything like this comes out again.
In other words, I agree Matt.
The thing with Kunz is that he took his lumps whenever he first arrived in a new league, but then adjusted. With low inning totals, those first few appearances carry more weight.
That said, I don’t like the premise of this article at all. Yes, Harper is doing a nice job of promoting Kunz ( I guess) but this just unnecessarily raises the expectations who haven’t heard of the kid.
Plus as was mentioned in this thread, Joe Smith started his season the same exact way that Joba ended his (minus the bugs) and had none of the hype.
Eitherway, the Yankee fans out there need to remember that there is no such thing as a pitching prospect…Joba and Hughes have had injury problems in the past (Joba in the minors), and Ian Kennedy has a pretty high injury risk for this season, given his increased workload from ‘06-’07 (30ip is generally the max for a young pitcher, Kennedy was over)
Never forget Generation K!
Who knows if Joba is ‘Joba’ in 2008…
It’s alright, Joba was the new Joe Smith.
Ughh…Duaner Sanchez > Joba, this year….
watch.
ONE.
Duaner has more of a chance to be the Mets next closer than Kunz does, too.
Whether it’s Sanchez or Kunz, or someone we’ve never heard of yet, I’m just (over) anxiously awaiting the arrival of the next great closer for the Mets.
The sooner he arrives, the sooner I can get over having to root for Wagner…
There have certainly been Mets who’s talent ( or lack thereof ) has made it hard to support ( See Mota, most recently, Benitez, Cedeno a bit further back ), but I can think of few Mets who I found so personally despicable… ( Vince Coleman, maybe )…
As the sum of being a Met fan is greater than any of the individual parts, I’ll cheer with all my might for every save that he delivers, but my hurrahs will be equally great the day they find his replacement…
The concept is sound, although naming it after a guy that pitched 40 innings or so, with “rules” to keep his arm from falling off? No.
The Angels did this anyway a few years back (K rod?) so it wasn’t a Yankee invention.
I also beat this drum a bit at various times when discussing the pen. Basically have some strong power arms available to bring in if the pen gets worn down again. If they had that kind of shot in the arm last year it would have been nice.
Kunz pitched at a top div. 1 school, so that is certainly the equivalent of a HS guy pitching in the low minors, so it shouldn’t be that surprising that he could come up by his 2nd year. Same thing Joba did, right?
Anyway, I will go on record that Joba will be the biggest bust of 2008, especially if they put him in the rotation. Has all the earmarks of wearing out quick and blowing up, or getting injured (since he had a history of that already)
Anyway, forgetting the catch name, if Kunz can have a break out year in 2008 and get worked into the pen as a power set up guy, and Sanchez gets back to what he was before the taxi ride, you may not notice when Wagner disappears!
I think the Expos did this first with Cordero. Don’t remember exactly, but that guy spent like 5 minutes in the minors before coming up. And he became their closer. And a very talented guy at that. I think what this article is saying is that every year there’s a guy like that. Last year it was Joba, this year it may be Kunz. It is, in reality, just something to write about, but I really doubt that the article was trying to ping Joba as a new class or a standard for fresh talent…
This actually brings up an interesting question for the future (and a test for Willie).
Say one of the set up guys becomes dominant, and Wags slips more. Any chance they push Wagner into a mop up or set up role (LOOGY?), and give the job to someone else?
Or will the veterans rule rule come into play, and they will keep running Wags out in the 9th no matter how many games he blows?
Hopefully he can finish out his contract strong (or if not, he gets hurt and hits the DL), but just an idle though while waiting for the season to start!
I don’t know if Wagner would make that switch or not. It would come down to his pride versus his chance for a ring. But in his head, he will always believe that he is the best guy for the 9th inning.
no one on this team has been even close to as good as Wagner has been the past 2 years, so frankly, I just wouldn’t expect Wagner to fall back that much.
I agree with darkstar. Being a closer takes a lot of mental developing. I don’t think anyone can take that over really before Wagner’s contract runs out. I also don’t believe that Billy would falter that much. Unless he becomes Brad Lidge, I don’t see him moving anywhere out of the closer spot…
look at joba compared to joe smith’s start last year. Although Joba was better, why is he a phenom and joe smith is going start in AAA?
Joba-
19 games, 24 ip, 0.38 era, 34 k’s, .145 OBA
Joe Smith-
24 games, 21.2 ip, 1.25 era, 25 k’s, .173 OBA
the yankees have no bullpen, the mets MAY have a decent bullpen if sanchez is normal
if Sanchez is back to normal, the Mets have a bullpen that is far from ‘normal.’ In ‘06 the Mets had the best bullpen in the NL. With a healthy Sanchesz, there is a distinct possibility for the Mets to have the best bullpen in the NL this season. A healthy Sanchez makes this a very deep pen.
I did not pay attention to the numbers much, but I watched them both pitch – I have to say Joba has great great stuff. I absolutely can see why everyone is so high on him. I think he can be very dominating, and the American league is harder to pitch in. I don’t really see dominating stuff from Joe Smith yet – I’m hoping for more consistancy. My fingers are crossed for the Mets guys.
I have to say, Joba has nasty stuff, but at the beginning of the year last year, Joe Smith was showing off some nasty stuff of his own. He wasn’t throwing it 98 mph obviously, but with that side arm delivery and that slider of his, there were some games he was simply unhittable. Obviously it unraveled for him as the season went on and he probably fatigued, but while he had it, he was flat out nasty and dominating, not sure if you were watching then, but thats what my eyes saw. If he can regain that, he’ll be in this league for a while.
1. He’s a Yankee. Any Yankee that does squat that they didn’t have to buy is the next greatest thing since sliced bread.
2. mrose has it right, who do the Yankees have in their bullpen? or in their rotation for that matter? Wang is really the only one.
3. He became a fan favorite late last year, so he’ll sell more shirts.
where did you get your Joe Smith #s from?
ESPN:
54 games, 44.1 IP, 3.45 ERA, 45 SO, 21 BB
Also, you might want to add Joba had 6 BB.
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/stats?statsId=7997
where did you get your Joe Smith #s from?
ESPN:
54 games, 44.1 IP, 3.45 ERA, 45 SO, 21 BB
Also, you might want to add Joba had 6 BB.
he said Joe Smiths start last year.
So my guess would be that was Joe Smiths start last year.
I missed that. Thanks Nate.
Houston Street or Chad Cordero…..remember those guys? They are actually relievers that were drafted to do just that, not a starter who was brought up as a reliever to help the pen out because Torre once again overused his bullpen. By the way Mr. Harper, Joba is a starter Kunz is a reliever.
Oh, and he has control problems, so maybe the Mets would like to get that strightened out before they start penciling him for anything.
Dont forget about Gregg Olson. He was on the same fast track and his career was basically shot at 27 years old.
btw, Cordero pitched just 26 inning in the minors and finished the year he was drafted with the Expos.
Huston Street pitched 26 inning in the minors and started the next year as the A’s closer.
So Kunz is way behind those guys. And its probably for the best.
fortunately for the Mets they are pretty well set with righty set up men for the next two years. With Wagner, Dauner, and Heilman all under control there really isnt a need for more than a Matt Wise type. When Kunz is ready he’ll get a shot, no need to rush him into someone else.
And yea, comparing a guy who can start and sit at 95 comfortably to someone who relieves and tops out at 95 for an inning really isnt fair.
Isnt everyone out to find the next Justin Verlander too?
Didn’t we have the next Verlander for a while… I think his name was Mike Pelfrey?
huh? Verlander dominated at the major league level pretty soon after being drafted, a rare commodity, when did Pelfrey do that?
Dark, I think he is saying that last year during ST foxsports said that Pelfrey would be the next Verlander. I believe it was Ken Rosenthal who said it.
and he still might be, if given a chance. Not everyone can hit their peak their first year out.
If I recall correctly, Joe Smith looked dominant and unhittable for his first 20+ innings as well . . . Let Joba pitch a full season before you get too wound up either way.
Calling anyone a “Joba” is absolutely assinine.
The guy didn’t pitch enough innings to even be considered significant, and the thing he is best known for is being the guy who was on the mound when the bugs hit.
How about some of those ML innings he pitched be in something other than mop up duty before we go calling him dominant.
Is everyone who has anything to do with the Yankees a tool?!
At some point in the near future, it’d be nice for the Mets, and the writers that surround them grasp the concept of originality.
It’s time to stop playing the role of the JV team, comparing players to the Yankees, doing roll calls before games, playing Sweet Caroline at Mets games, etc. trying so hard to market stupid aspects of the Mets organization.
How about…just win. Play hard and win. Don’t worry about other players, other teams, stealing other teams songs (Sweet Caroline). For once I’d love for the Mets to just be the Mets.
can we burn all the Joba Rules T-Shirts?
he does not even rule tiny bugs.
btw, is it possible that john Harper and Joel Sherman are the same person. I mean I always get those too confused.
one person i would not confuse is Lisa Olson. I love her articles. I am sad to hear she left the Daily News back in January. i blame Lupica.
two
First of all, all this talk from yankee fans about Joba being a future hall of famer is really starting to get ridiculous. The guy has thrown 20 regular season innings, and not to mention a very poor playoff outing. Second of all, there are pitchers out there that have stuff as good as Joba or even better. Joel Zumaya for example throws even harder than Joba. Felix Hernandez has disguisting stuff. And 3rd of all, almost all power arm pitchers these days get injured. Id say theres a good 30 percent chance Joba is the next Kerry Wood/ Mark Prior, and id say theres a good 50 percent chance he gets injured this year and misses time…and then comes back from rehab and starts to get hit. Kinda like Felix last season after being unhittable at the start of the season…missed a few weeks…came back and wasnt nearly as dominant as he was before. COME ON YANKEES FANS..btw the yanks staff is horrendous right now, regardless of what Joba does.
Comments on this entry are closed.