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In an interview with WFAN’s Mike and the Maddog today, Yankees GM Brian Cashman cited the failure of Generation K while defending the slow-paced development of Joba Chamberlain and Phil Hughes.
…lovely…i’m glad our blue-and-orange nightmare could help pave the way for the subsequent nightmare of joba and hughes…ugh…
…Generation K, it’s the gift that keeps on giving…
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they are going to demolish joba’s arm this year. How can they not give the kid a defined role?
Joba = Izzy
Kennedy = Pulsipher
Hughes = Wilson
can’t wait to see Kennedy on the Long Island Ducks in 5 years
Of course this was going to be the case. It’s the Mets’ sins that have in part propelled the Yankees to their success. Torre, Doc, Daryl, Cone, etc.
The Mets didn’t rush any of these pitchers…the “lesson” Cashman should have learned was that sometimes the best value a prospect has is as a trade chip. How good would the 97-00 Mets have been if they’d traded these guys early for studs instead of late for..all together now…Billy Taylor, Lenny Harris, Bubba Trammell, and Rick White.
He should have cited Gen K when making a deal for Santana. now he just sounds like an even bigger idiot.
i don’t get it, Joba Chamberlain and Phil Hughes are suddenly developing at a slow pace? I thought they were coming along on schedule.
I find this whole thing hilarious – Chamberlain and Kennedy have been professionals for under 2 years. Now they are being counted on as main cogs for a team with a $200+MM payroll. That’s a slow pace?
If Cashman means “learning from Generation K” as in, “don’t have Dallas Green shred your prospects’ arms”, then that would be a valuable lesson to learn.
If he means, “don’t overhype guys who’ve proven nothing yet,” that lesson has clearly not been learned.
Dallas Green ran these guys into the ground. Pitchers are no longer handled in the manner that generation K was. Boy it turns my stomache just writing gen. K, who I thought was our answer to Smoltz, Glavine, and Maddox.
I am not sure pitching prospects were vauled as highly as they are now, so you can’t gauge the return that trading them would have gotten. Maybe some old schooler can chime in on this question.
Huh? When in the history of this game were pitching prospects “not-valued?”
I vividly remember Sheffield or Kevin Brown being offered straight-up for Izzy, and this was after their 1997 season when Izzy’d already been hurt. When these guys were coming up, they were all can’t miss. They would’ve fetched MAJOR talent. Since those years — 93, 94, 95 – were pre-internet, there wasn’t the glut of constant rumors, but you can bet no GM in the game wouldn’t perk up if the Mets came dangling one of those 3.
I think we tend to forget that Izzy has had a very successful career since he left – and he would’ve had it here if we’d thought to have converted him to a reliever like Oakland did the minute they got him.
Who said “not-valued” for you to be using quotation marks?
I wrote “I am not sure pitching prospects were vauled as highly as they are now”, which is a big difference.
Anyway, I don’t remember hearing Kevin Brown nor Sheffield, you could be right.
Sorry – I misuse the quotation marks.
Having been around back then these guys did track a ton of attention even after the initial injuries – actually a Sheff-Izzy deal was shelved when Izzy infamously hurt himself in a celebrity softball game…I just think the odds of all 3 developing into heathy stars is minute based on history, and in the win-now Bronx spending to keep aging stars and then whiffing on Johan was moronic.
What met fan under the age of 12 during that time didnt have that poster on their wall.
I’m not going to defend Dallas Green, but he barely managed these guys. None were able to stay healthy enough during his tenure for him to even be able to run them into the ground.
In 1995, Dallas Green gave a 21-year old Pulsipher 126.2 IP after he had already thrown 91.2 innings in AAA that season. That same season, Green allowed Izzy to finish with 221 IP between the majors and the minors.
OK, screw Dallas Green then! I didn’t think they racked up those innings. Wilson’s 96 numbers would probably have been as bad if he could keep himself in games.
Green certainly was responsible for blowing out Doc’s arm for good in 93 and 94, which no one remembers becasue of the drug relapse…and there was the infamous Al Leiter outing when they were with hte Yankees where he throw like 256 pitches in a game.
Disagree with your analysis. You’re correct that Pulsipher threw a total of 218 innings in 1995 (at age 21). But he had thrown 201 the year before in the minors. Rule of thumb is don’t have young pitchers increase the previous year’s totals by more than 30. The problem was his numbers in the minors: 95 innings, 139, then 201. That was the year that probably killed him
Izzy at age 22 threw a total of 221 innings, but that was only 28 more than the previous year at 193. His minor league numbers: 65, 90, and 193.
Wilson was similar in the minors: 49, 186, then his first year in the minors/majors, he actually threw fewer innings: 162.
Conclusion: it wasn’t Dallas Green who ruined these pitchers, it was the Mets rushing them through the farm system.
I don’t know…I know everyone is anti-Yankee here but it’s funny how the media really influences fans’ opinions (obviously). If you’ve kept up with prospect reports you’d know Hughes is a top notch prospect and I just don’t see how one injury changes that. He was going hang in hang with Lincecum/Gollardo and could pan out to be the ace of the Yankees staff. In fact it’s what I expect of Phil Hughes – I think he’ll be great.
It doesn’t need to be repeated that he got injured in the 6th inning of a no hitter he was throwing in Texas…you can take what you want from that. But the kid is a stuf with great minor league numbers and I think he’s in for a BIG year. IMO he is concretely better than any prospect the Mets gave up. And I think he’ll be a more successful starter than Joba.
Am I the only one that doenst see this as an issue? Shouldnt every GM learn from another team’s errors? The problem back then was the over hype of these cant miss prospects. For the markting dept these kids were the only real thing to market. Good for Cashman to learn from our mistakes and hopefully we’ll learn from other teams mistakes.
Speaking of marketing, Cashman also should have learned from the Mets inviting 60-year-old Rodney Dangerfield to play in a spring training game in 1985. Oh wait, that never happened.
The NY Yankees: Where Heroes (and 60-year old hack comics) Become Legends.
Cashman is doing exactly what the Mets did. He is holding onto all three in hopes they pan out to be good pitchers.
The reality is 1 or maybe 2 of them if they are extremely lucky will end up being servicable MLB pitchers. And in hindsight that is exactly what happened with the Mets, albeit on another team (Isringhausen).
You cant predict results or injuries, you can only hope.
You can do more than just hope. You’re right – some injuries are going to happen no matter what. It’s part of the game. On the other hand, you can minimize the risk by keeping an eye on things like pitch counts, IP from season to season, etc.
who did cashman blame for his terrible past signings of kevin brown, jaret wright, kyle farnsworth, roger clemens (last year’s version), and carl pavano?
Don’t forget Kei Igawa!
it could just be that Pulsipher wasnt as good as promised. Izzy obviously became a good closer and has had a good career and Paul Wilson became a servicable starter for a good 5 year stretch.
Pulsipher goes into the Ducks hall of fame.
Joba, Kennedy, Hughes = Generation Gay
best comment ever.
i hate cashman even more than i did 5 seconds ago