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…you’re right, David Lennon from Newsday, it’s time i accept Angel Pagan for what he is…he’s earned it, so far…i’m not saying he should be guaranteed an opening day roster spot, just because he is hitting .415 in 13 games this spring, and with three weeks left until the start of the season, but i should at least accept him as the front runner to fill in for Moises Alou…
…plus, let’s not forget, pagan is a former Mets prospect, who is now back in the fold, so we should want him to succeed…
…so, for now, until pagan proves otherwise, i do not want the Mets to trade more young talent, or extra relievers, and over-pay to acquire a guy like Juan Rivera, Randy Winn or Xavier Nady…
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I second that…
Third. I believe the old addage is ‘Dont fix wont ain’t broke.’
.415 aint broke. I dont care whos pitching for the other guys. Give this guy a chance to fail, hes earned at least that much. Besides what kind of message does it send when someone on the team goes down, his replacement tears it up when given the opportunity, and you go out and bring someone else in. Moral does mean alot in baseball over the long haul. If he starts to stink it up I’m sure he’d understand, but not when hes performing so well. Besides, its only until Alou comes back anyway(and then promptly gets hurt again, but well deal with that when it needs to be dealt with.)
-’what ain’t broke’….typo….
Since living in Chicago for the last 2 summers, and having season tix at wrigley (my girl is a Cubs fan), I’ve watched Pagan over the last 2 seasons intently… He’s definitely not the same player he was in chicago. I never thought he was a standout player, and fit his role as an occasional fill-in. In watching him play this spring, he’s evolved into a veteran presence. first and foremost, his approach to the plate is much better, he’s patient. and in the mix-match of lineups we put out there, you can see him nuturing the younger and invitee players. He truly looks comfortable, which is reciprocating to his play on the field. he’s always had a chip on his shoulder since the mets let him go. HOWEVER, I still feel like he’s coming back to earth any day. i think Fernando deserves most of the PT. He needs big league experience, big league ABs. -shytownmet
It seems a little more edgy when it’s posted by Cerrone, rather than Matthew Cerrone.
the guy is going to be an asset. at the very least he replaces what car-go would give them in ‘08. maybe not long term, but for sure in ‘08….
Exactly. Give Pagan a try and if it doesn’t work out, then look for a solution.
And now that you’ve said that Matt, Pagan will proceed to come back to earth. You should have just kept on questioning his talent….
Pagan is the truth
So if Pagan becomes the new fan favorite at Shea, can we then say we are into “Pagan-ism”?
:::groan:::
he’s the definition of serviceable…
I’m not thrilled nor upset by the thought of Angel Pagan as a OF fill-in
I’ll trade “The Show” for Rivera right now… Then again, I’d trade him for a flaming pile of dog crap…and step in it
Dude, don’t ever become a GM. You’re a terrible negotiator.
Make sure the dog crap can get lefties out.
I agree, if the need is for a 4-6 week fill in for Alou, then Pagan (with Endy) seems to be just as good as any of the other options mentioned.
Plus, he is here, free, and when Alou comes back, it is possible to send him down.
It isn’t like he is a 20 YO that never played above A ball, or a 33 YO career minor leaguer. he is about the right age to be where he is, and he did have a reasonably good year for the Cubs, certainly enough to get comfy as a major leaguer.
Their selling Pagan shirts, jersies, boxers at Modells. He’s a hit I tell ya. Thats what the secret press conference is for, Pagan.
Angel ‘Dust’ Pagan
I heard Pagan’s going to be the new govenor of NY
He’ll have to change his number to 9
Amen.
I’m not really sure where all this reluctance to believe in Pagan came from. The guy is, hands down, the hottest player for the Mets right now. People need to accept that.
Lennon is right. Of course it’s risky if Pagan turns out to be just a big spring training mirage, but he deserves it at this point. 100%. You have to give it to him.
Omar can always keep his eye out for a replacement if Angel tanks. But I think he’ll be an asset and do a good job.
If Rivera could be obtained for Show it is a complete no brainer. First of all in his only real full season he was pretty darn good. He certainly was better than Ryan Church has ever been and we gave up a big prospect for Church. He can fill in at left and first (he is taking grounders there this spring) and when Delgado and Alou are in the lineup he can face tough lefties and sit Church. He also could be a power bat off the bench. He is PERFECT for this team.
seriously though. I would do The Show and Smith for Rivera. Not only are you getting a proven replacement til Alou is back, but he was the complimentary bat we were looking for before Alou got hurt.
I’m ok taking a chance on this kid for the first month or 2. He could become a valuable asset.
spring training 2007:
milledge .352
spring training 2006
julio franco .414
c. lambin .353
spring training 2005
gerald williams .455
miguel cairo .441
Pagans regular season states are more important, and they are good enough to try starting him.
he’ll certainly get a chance; however, spring training stats mean close to nothing.
his regular season and minor league stats show that he is likely a back-up outfielder on a good team.
But I think, on this team, we can survive while giving Pagan a chance to start. I could see him putting up something like .265 / 15 / 70 over a part-time / full season on the bench / filling in… Which I think would be good enough.
I think we have enough back up plans to. I don’t think Pagan will have much lee way…. I think Winn would be the best option if we can get him from the Giants for not very much.
this team wasn’t put together to merely “survive”. They are expected to win, and win now. That’s the real question about Pagan/Endy/Alou — because you know Alou is going to get hurt again, so this isn’t just a 4 week replacement. You have to have a guy that can fill in on a semi-regular basis in LF.
If you pick up a guy like Rivera (again, w/o overpaying), he could not only fill the void in the OF, but possibly be insurance at 1B as well.
you’re right, stats mean nothing in ST…… but form does mean something, and anyone who’s watched Pagan play knows that he’s got great form right now…
that seems kinda confusing, so i’ll give an example….. if a pitcher in spring training pitches 4 hitless innings, despite not hitting the right locations and having the right arm slot, etc. it is worse than a pitcher who allows 4 runs but is pitching with great velocity, location, etc. …
its about the preparation (form) up until opening day, then its about the execution (stats)
Why are they more important?
well said.
the key word is “Overpay”.
Mets are not desperate yet; if you can get a 4th outfielder for reasonable/affordable cost, fine; if not, stick with what we have.
I have no problem staying with Pagan for now.
and Piazza45, we gave up big prospect for Church AND Schneider; Schneider was not simply a throw in (like it or not)
whatever…..I would have felt better about trading milledge for Juan rivera and signing loduca than trading milledge for schneider and Church.
Um….LoDuca and DelCrapo have mastered the ‘over-the-hill’ we may or may not have cheated, holding onto the bottom rung of the ladder handshake.
Im still undecided on the trade, but the one thing I’m certain of is that Lo Duca could NOT have been our catcher this year. Watch closely this year as his steroid, HGH riddled body deteriotes over the course of the season.
you do realize Schneider’s OBP% and RBIs totals are almost exactly the same as LoDuca. Schneider is a much better defensive player. And, if you take age into account, LoDuca is likely going to continue to regress(perhaps dramatically) due to age like he did last season.
HAHA Gerald Willaims. I remember him being our middle of the order hitter at some point in 2005
I think the bad wrap on this guy was concerning his plate discipline. It looks like that has improved, which is probably one of the elements behind his success.
If he keeps this up and finishes ST in the .330 BA/ 400 OBP range, he should earn the roster spot on merit alone. BUt I’m afraid he is not the guy to protect our middle order hitters. I think we really need a Juan Rivera-type.
I know I’m going to get killed for writing this, but home runs are really overrated if the guy is getting on base and smacking doubles around the field like he’s doing right now. They’re not cheap hits for the most part. But can he keep it up? At this stage of the game unless a better option comes cheaply, it would be an injustice not to give Pagan a shot to start the season.
You’ve talked a lot about ‘protection’.
Simple truth is, statistical analysis shows that protection does not exist. Who hits after you has a tiny effect on your production.
In fact, that tiny effect is that your production decreases very very slightly with a big bat behind you. The reason? It makes pitchers slightly more likely to throw strikes, which makes it slightly more likely they’ll get you out.
and unfortunately for you, reality disproves what statistics shows. See Beltran’s noticeably reduced production because of Delgado’s struggles last season. Beltran didn’t get the good fast balls to hit. He was offered off more of speed and breaking balls because the pitcher had the luxury of not having to throw Beltran a fastball because they know they could get Delgado out.
It’s common sense.
No offense, man… but people who say things like “reality disproves what statistics shows (sic)” don’t understand the concept of statistics. Or reality, apparently.
(It ain’t “what you see with your eyes.”)