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As noted earlier, WFAN’s Ed Coleman reported on-air that the Mets and Red Sox are discussing a swap of Angel Pagan for Coco Crisp.
…however, i was able to speak with two people connected to the Mets, both of whom dismissed the idea of trading pagan for crisp…
Furthermore, the Boston Globe recently wrote the following to their blog, Extra Bases:
“Ignore that rumor started about Coco Crisp heading to the Mets for Angel Pagan. Theo Epstein, through media relations director John Blake, said that the Red Sox have not been talking to the Mets.
“That the story was a fabrication.”
Also, at his blog for Newsday, David Lennon relays his talk with a Mets official, who more or less says the same thing.
By the way, Pagan hit a two-run home run today and is now batting .419 this spring with 10 RBI.
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1st. ;)
Dude, don’t bring that crap here, even if you are joking.
Riiiiiiight, buddy….
I’m happy that this is all a fabrication. The swap would make no sense in my opinion. It does not make sense in many reasons two of that Pagan is playing well in this spring training season and Crisp is worth a lot of money. Bringing his contract to New York would just be obserd, let alone the fact that hes not a great hitter, but great fielder.
The whole thing did not make sense from the git go. Just add M&MD to the list of unrelable sources. Those two don’t have a clue and never did.
BLASSSTTTTTTIINGGGS THRILLLLLEDGE!!!!!!!!!
Wow, what a surprise, Mike and the Maddog are lying to us. Again.
I don’t think it was intentional however. They’re just idiots.
it was intentional AND they are idiots…
Mad Dog was just criticizing Santana for being a “7 inning pitcher.” Uhhhh, who isn’t a “7 inning pitcher” these days Chris? By my calculations, 7 innings per start over the course of a season could lead the major’s in innings pitched. Wake up Mad Dog.
haha seriously who is an 8 or 9 inning pitcher? did he give an example of guys who can go longer?
roy halladay is the only guy that comes to mind. He had about 7 or 8 complete games last year but i think he likes to pitch all those innings because he doesn’t really trust his bullpen.
Santana has been in the top 10 in innings pitched for each of the last 3 years. Maybe longer but I didn’t check. Halladay threrw 266 innings one year. That is ridiculous.
Here’s how he ranked the last 4 years in innings pitched:
2004: 6th
2005: 4th
2006: 3rd
2007: 9th
And that was with the twins keeping him on a strict pitch count. I don’t know if they ever allowed him to throw more than 120 pitches in a game.
As a point of reference illustrating how the game has changed, Sandy Koufax, in his last year and with an arthritic elbow that forced him out of baseball pitched 323 innings with 27 complete games. His ERA+ was 190 and his WHIP was 0.985. He struck out 317 batters and won the Cy Young..
Thank God…
Thank God??? Do you really think pagan is a better player then CoCo Crisp?? You’re dreaming if you do…
Pagan a better overall player? No. But is Pagan the most useful to this clubhouse? Yes, Pagan is more useful to the Mets than Crisp.
Why would we want to bring in an older OFer who is already complaining in Boston b/c of more playing time? That makes sense. Lets bring Crisp to NY where we have numerous OFers already so Crisp can platoon some more…like he was doing in Boston. Oh wait, he left Boston b/c he wasn’t playing enough.
Crisp needs to go to a team and start, not platoon until the starting LFer gets healthy.
You’re wrong.
Crisp would have been successful in the NL, and he would have had more playing time with the Mets. We have two OF’s who wind up missing time, and Crisp would have been able to play just about everyday somewhere.
You’re missing the point. Crisp doesn’t want to play “Somewhere” he wants to play every day. Day in and day out. That won’t happen in NY.
Therefore, you’re point of view is skewed and you are wrong.
No I’m not.
Not ever.
And how do you know what he wants? With the Mets, Crisp could have played everyday. Probably not in center, but somewhere. Everyday. And that would have been better than anything he will get in Boston. So I think he’d have taken it. And I am not wrong.
your wrong…. when alou is hurt, crisp wouldn’t even be a starter all the time because we have endy chavez also
Nice try. Crisp would play better over extended at bats than Endy would. Crisp would be the full time fill in for Alou while Endy would remain in his bench role/
So, it turns out that I’m not wrong after all.
Pagan’s lifetime numbers after 318 mlb ab’s
obp 306
slg 415
avg 255
OPS 721
Crisp’s numbers after the same number of mlb ab’s
obp 308 even with Pagan
slg 365 Pagan way ahead
avg 263 Crisp ahead by very little
OPS 683
Pagan is two years younger and could have a big upside
Crisp’s lifetime numbers are not anything that Pagan might not match or possibly surpass by a big margin
obp 329
slg 409
avg 280
Pagan is much cheaper ,younger,healthy with better upside
All of this info is crap.
Who cares how the two players compare to one another at various points in their careers? Show me who has hit ML pitching in their career and who hasn’t.
Also show me who is the better defensive player. Which player has ever enjoyed any ML success?
It’s Crisp.
That’s a loaded argument. Crisp developed faster and started getting those AB’s at age 22-23–but has dipped a bit recently.
I’d be more excited if Pagan were a couple years younger (though only 26) since there would be a better chance he was really developing as opposed to just hitting a hot streak.
That being said, I still agree with you–would much rather have Pagan than Crisp right now.
oh no, CW is back. crisp is a black hole. no thanks.
heh
Thank God!
I really want to see Pagan thrive on the Mets. I really think he is the kind of player who will perform better w/ consistent playing time, even though that might be unlikely this season.
Pagan isn’t going to “thrive”. He is a spare part.
Yeah, like you know what you’re talking about. I’ve watched him @ Wrigley, and he has an excellent chance to be a real contributor.
Tell me, what’s your authority to make such a judgement besides his stats that show us only that he’s never had serious MLB playing time?
Oh, OK Harry Caray. So I am not an authority to say that Pagan is a spare part, but you are enough of one to say that he can be a real contributor.
Tell me why he played so much with the Cubs if he had all this untapped potential. I have Extra Innings, and have seen him play quite a bit. So tell me what YOU have seen Pagan do outside of this ST to convince us all that we should hand him the keys to the shop. Because all Pagan has ever proven to me is that he is just not really that good of a big league ballplayer.
Guys like you make me have to go on MetsBlog vacations from time to time.
It’s funny what you’re unaware of, but that’s your own pathetic problem.
Cubs folks were high on him, but their organization has a ridiculous propensity to rotate OFers with potential constantly, and it’s one of the reasons (some people with some knowledge of the game of MLB may argue) that it’s extremely hard for a rookie to ever get into a serious rhythm, let alone play to his full potential. Since you’re such a knowledgeable bb person, I’ve no doubt you know all about how Pagan was handled on the Cubs.
I never once mentioned “handing him any keys,” but I do think he can thrive wherever he gets the potential to be an everyday player. I’m sure environment, espirit d’corps, etc. means little to you. Keep looking at the figures on him from his 300+ ABs. Yeah, man, you know what you’re talking about. So continue to do us the favor and stay on vacation. Not to worry, there’s plenty of room to keep suffering fools like you; I just don’t have to do it gladly.
So I read your wordy nonsense, but you avoided everything I asked. Why would this be?
Oh, wait. It’s because you’ve seen nothing out of Pagan.
So from that I am going to gather that you have no reason to think that Angel Pagan is going to succeed given real ML AB’s, (mostly because if you knew anything you’d realize that he has done nothing with the AB’s he has had), and just assume that you want to hate Coco Crisp for no good reason.
So hey, I’ll just hang out with you here in the “suffering fools” pile. Keep up the great work.
Dolt.
Matt must have made up the rumor. It did generate 193 quick hits to the site (or at least that many posts on the previous thread!)
For what it’s worth, I don’t find that funny at all. I take those sorts of accusations very, very seriously.
There is no way Matt would do that sort of thing for site hits — that’s why he and the site are so successful.
Eddie C. had it on WFAN.
it was on wfan.
Great job stickguy. Now you got Matt upset.
Matt, stickguy apologizes for trying to be funny. I’d say that most readers here know you wouldn’t do something like that. Plus you did cite Ed Coleman from WFAN as the one who said the trade was in the works.
Keep up the good work.
Does anyone else feel like the last hour of work flew by with this rumor?
Let’s try and get one of these started every day around 2-230 PM
Jorge Sosa and Scott Show for Puljos. Big Al can fill in for Alou and Delgado. Discuss….
True…. true….. any kind of rumor that can be posted after 1 o’clock will greatly increase the speed of my day.
spring training 2005:
pagan: .381 12 r 5hr 10 rbi
he may be in the spring training hall of fame one day
Yeah but to be fair, Sox fans were telling me in ‘06 that Crisp was going to be even better than Damon was so I guess hype and false projections only get you so far in baseball.
Bottom line, neither Crisp or Pagan excite me going forward, but Pagan has at least earned a look in RF for the short-term while Theo should have to continue to carry Crisp as an financial albatross another year or so.
financial albatross? he makes btw $4-5 million per year. he would have been one of the most productive mets last year. top 4 in almost every category
Well if Theo was hypothetically willing to dump him for a a career 4/5th outfielder, I’m certain there’s some level of “salary dump” here going on for the Sox.
Regardless, I disagree here. I’m not saying Pagan is the answer, but I would much rather steer clear of Crisp, who we already seem to have a clone of in Endy Chavez who just has less pop hypothetically. I don’t see how .260/.300 is going to help this Met offense. Iw ould much rather see a deal for a Winn/Rivera/Nady once the season is rolling along and we have a better sense of Alou’s status and Delgado’s stinkiness.
Not a clone…
Crisp is a switch hitter. Endy only hits lefty.
nya nya…
good job on that stat!!
Pagan = Mora?!?