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In a report for the Associated Press, Ron Blum writes about the rising cost of tickets around all of MLB, who expect to draw roughly 81 
million fans to baseball games this season – up from 79 million last year.
…just yesterday i had a conversation with SNY.tv’s Ted Berg about the number of seats that will, or will not be, in Citi Field…i understand both points of view, that of the fan perspective and that of the business side considering supply and demand and what it does to ticket prices…from what i understand, the Mets will likely raise ticket prices again, from the level they are at now, to a higher rate when Citi Field opens its doors one year from now…this is partly why they raised tickets for this season, so the increase in to 2009 will be a more easily digested…
…personally, i have a hard time getting worked up over this…i trust that the market will work out these issues in time…although, like i said to ted, on the day i am standing outside Citi Field, banging on the front door being denied access because the game is sold out or i can’t afford tickets and can’t get in, i am sure i will have a totally different opinion…but, for now, i’m not too concerned about it…
In a post to Metsmerized Online, Mike Bailey also wonders what the new seating situation will be like at Citi Field.
Speaking of Citi Field, in a report yesterday on ESPN Radio, Andrew Marchand quoted Jeff Wilpon as saying he will soon hear from MLB regarding when Citi Field will host the All-Star Game.
Marchand cites a baseball official as saying the Mets will likely play host in 2013.
However, today in the Daily News, Adam Rubin points out that Johan Santana is the only player on the major-league roster who is guaranteed to be under contract through 2013.
True about Santana, but I’d think its fairly realistic to expect Wright and Reyes to have their contracts extended at least thru 2013…Beltran’s deal is up in 2011, at which age he’ll be only 34…He could be a candidate to come back as well
I wonder if he would be willing to come back as a corner OFer at that time as you figure F-Mart will be in his prime then – and at 34, Beltran won’t be able to run as fast as he used to.
THM is no centerfielder.
Wow Fernando Marinez has gone to F-Mart to Teenage Hitting Machine and now just THM
Speaking of 2013, a weird question just popped in my head. If the Mets wanted to, would they be allowed (right now) to give Fernando Martinez a 10 year contract worth 20 million? and would he accept it?
If he did, and he pans out like we want him to, I’m sure he would be very unhappy in the future making less than 2 million a year. But on the other hand, the Mets give him money now when he hasn’t proven anything yet.
Just a thought.
sounds like a hockey contract
He’d be just as nuts to accept a contract like that. The Mets would have to come way stronger than that. Maybe 2 mil per for 5 seasons, beginning THIS season or perhaps Jose Reyes money for 10, also to begin this season. Then we can start talking. Outside of that, this kid could make 20 mil for ONE season potentially someday. How could someone suggest that the Mets take advantage of a kid with a lowball contract like that? Baseball is currently rolling in dough that should be shared with the players who are the game. The Mets would be seen as skunks for doing something so despicable.
Matt, I’m sorry, but I take a lot of exception at “I have a hard time getting worked up about this” when you get a lot of free tickets and aren’t paying $1k+ a year for a plan or even a few hundred dollars for a 7 pack.
I continually have this issue with the media. they never ever assume an aggressive stance on ticket pricing issues because it’s meaningless to them.
a press pass and access to the inner workings makes it real easy to not get worked up.
Matt,
I think you should be very concerned about the seating capacity of Citi Field. 45,000 is simply not enough for a NYC team. This coupled with the fact that NY Giant history is being completely ignored are huge design errors, at least from the fan’s perspective. Ticket prices will be outrageous. The average guy will be shut out. I miss dumpy Shea already.
And away we go…
I’m not gonna totally rehash every point that has been made over the last 2 days. I’ll just bulletpoint.
Avg salary in NYC(whether you like it or not) > $100k. Season tickets this year $2,800. You unable to afford < than average. Please stop with this ‘avg guy getting shut out’. Its NOT the Mets problem that there is inflation and its tough to juggle them with other expenses. NOT. THEIR. PROBLEM. Maybe your pay is higher than avg in KC, like the article says. Poor in a relative sense in NYC. Its just the way it is.
You’re making the point about how high these seats will go. OK I will buy a minimal plan, I do live 2 hours away, but what about the BIG game. The one where Santana is pitching against Hamels late in September. For most fans we could get those tix easy enough. Now they will go for hundreds. That’s why I wanted those 10,000 extra seats. How many of us have NHL season tix? I dont see kids at hockey games as much anymore. Priced out. I’d hate to see that with baseball. Just because we make more doesn’t mean we have more to spend.
Bulletpoining again.
Not. Their. Problem.
Man, I could talk about this all day. Please TRY to remove your subjectivity. Its irrevelevant, and pointless.
I love the back and forth every time matt posts anything to do with citi field…
From what I can gather:
- people want at least 55,000 seats as this will assure them a seat whenever they want to go to a game.
-They want to watch the game in a state of the art facility with one of the largest payrolls in the sport, but want the ticket prices to either stay the same or be reduced.
- They don’t want corporations to buy seats and they want the entire stadium filled with poor people who are the only ones allowed to call themselves “real fans”
- don’t get me started on the apple
I heard there won’t be any field level corporate boxes at CitiField – companies will have to buy luxury suites if they want to entertain their clients.
At least that’s one small concession to the average fan.
I didn’t realize so many hedge fund managers were Mets fans.
Honestly though, how often does Shea get filled by more than that many people? How many times have you come to the stadium to see an ocean of empty red seats on the upper deck? Yes, it will suck getting tickets to big games, but regular games shouldn’t be too hard. And, even if the capacity of Citi was at say 55,000, you better believe that tickets would still be JUST as expensive.
What features of Shea represented the Giants anyway? The 270′ foul lines? Oh wait… no, the 455′ centre field… oh wait… no, the seating running parallel to a line from home plate to centrefield instead of parallel to the foul lines… oh wait
The seating capacity is somewhat on the low side, but it’s not far below the average attendance last season – which was skewed because of sellouts for e.g. the subway series. As the Wilpons like to point out, for most games at Shea the attendance was below the capacity of Citi.
Ticket prices will be higher, but it’s still going to be a lot more affordable, and easier to obtain, than a ticket to a football game.
You can’t compare baseball to football. 8 home games vs. 81. The prices SHOULD be drastically higher and harder to obtain.
But what about the poor average Joe who’s a “true football fan”?
Sure the numbers are different, it just goes to show how amazingly easy baseball fans have it. Quit griping that there are now only 5 times more opportunities to see a baseball game than a football game, rather than 6 times.
And even those factors fail to account for the fact that there are as many season ticket holders to the Meadowlands as there are seats.
I understand a lot of the concern from fans that Citi will only hold 45,000 fans, but don’t forget this will make the Citi a much more intimate park to watch a game. From the first announcement of Citi-Filed the Wilpons said it was more important to have an intimate ballpark rather then 10,000 extra seats. They claim that there will not be one bad seat in the house, compared to Shea where the upper deck nose bleed seats give fans a really bad view of the game. Citi is simply elliminating all those upper deck nose beeld seats and basically putting the fans right on top of the field and all the action. Lets hope there right, but just from looking at some of the recent construction photos it looks like there right on point.
The raise in ticket prices this year was easily digested by existing plan holders only because of the mammoth credits we had sitting on our accounts based on the collapse of the team.
They didn’t ask for much more $ from us because of the hundres or even thousands of dollars they already had.
Assuming the unthinkable doesn’t happen again, there is going to be some real financial pain this time next year.
Higher prices coupled with a tight economy…. not good.
Going to a Baseball game, to many, is a luxury. and what we are starting ot see in the economy is that discretionary spending is down. Yes, largely, the Box Seats are corporately owned, and will sell regardless… but to the “everyday” fan… Season tickets to Citifield are going to be a luxury item. One that I am sure many will pass on.
I fully plan on saving the money I would have spent on a ticket plan and spend it on the seats they’ll be ripping up and selling from Shea. Then I can sit comfortable at home and enjoy the game and cheap beer from my own nosebleeds.
Fabulous. A realistic and logic solution to a problem. Love it.
HAH! Comfortable? In a Shea seat?
Rediculous!
As a fan from NJ, most of the time, I would rather watch the games in HD anyway, having a stadium in Queens is a nightmare for us….so I don’t really care…
Cue the Comrades saying “real” or “common” or “average” Mets fans don’t have HD TV’s and “down with the successful – up with the mediocre!” and so forth. ;-)
I live 15 minutes from the Stadium, and it’s a nightmare for ME now. I can’t imagine bucking traffic over the bridges to boot. Parking this year is going to be horrendous.
In fact, last game i went to was opening day in 2002…with the promise of Moe Vaughn, Burnitz, and Alomar….took me 4 hours to get home from that game…..I vowed never again…..to be fair I can take public transportation NJT to LIRR or Subway….but HD makes that choice rather easy to be honest….If and I when I do go to Citi Field….it will be likely once a year or so…..not that anyone really wants or needs to here me whine about it….:)
I dunno why poeple drive when the subway and the LIRR stops at the stadium….I always took the train. Easy peasy.
“…personally, i have a hard time getting worked up over this…i trust that the market will work out these issues in time”
When was the last time a team lowered all its ticket prices? The Market will not work this out. Every time they up the prices, they are just raising the floor for the lowest price. They may suck in 4 years and not raise the prices but I doubt they will lower all the prices of the seats if they blow for 3 years and they can only get 20,000 into the stadium each night to see them play.
losing shea is more than just seating and pricing to me. we’ve been down this road before. shea is a dump but its my dump. its where i went to my first baseball game. its where i got arrested for apparently cheering too loud. its where i was detained by the nypd in the holding cell in its basement. its where i asked what the score was while i was in handcuffs. its where i feel the most comfort and the most joy. its where i will park my car in 2 seasons.
its not the price of the ticket thats going to bother me. ill pay whatever it is. what bothers me is knowing the tickets wont be as accessable. ive made it a home away from home so much that the people in the ticket office know me by name when i call or walk up. it’ll be much-much-much more difficult to secure seats in 09 and subsequent years.
ill do whatever i can to get in there. even if its last row upper deck (mezz in todays standards).
i want to take pride in the fact that whatever ticket for a seat i get in opening day 09, i will be the first ass that ever sat in that seat.
Oh man, not YOU. I usually like your posts. We usually agree. Nuts.
Just reread your post and review how many times the word ‘I’ or ‘I want’ or ‘me’. Dude, there are MANY ‘I’’s out there with the same memories. The same desires. Its not ‘your stadium or team’. Its THEIRS. A lot of people want to be the first ass in the seat. Some have money. Some dont. You are part of a market. Your one voice means nothing. You are not a special snowflake.
yeah dude we do agree oftentimes. I’m not really complaining either. I am concerned that the level of ease that is connected with currently getting mets tix will be nullified. wouldnt you agree?
im not saying anything about the cost of the tickets. ive accepted that.
i guess im going to have to get used to those lottery’s for games unless they offer the packs
What is easier than a couple of clicks on StubHub?
Sounds to me like you could have as much fun enjoying Mets fans from Rikers Island.
“fans” = games.
i brought up that incident at shea where i was arrested to illustrate me level of devotion to the team. asking the cop who was detaining me what the score was in the top of the 7th inning
I know. Just messin’ around.
I agree with Matt — the market will work this out.
When you combine the opening of a new stadium with a successful team in a big baseball market, tickets will be very difficult, if not impossible, to come by. The same thing happened in Cleveland with Jacobs field in the mid-’90s.
In a few years, after the novelty of CitiField has worn off, tickets will not be in such high demand. Sure, if the Mets remain a very competitive team for the next 10 years, tickets will be harder to come by, but that would be the case regardless of what stadium they play in.
In a few years if the Mets stink it up you’ll see more and more tickets available for sale on the secondary market (craigslist, ebay, stubhub) — and for decent prices.
And if, god forbid, the Mets really stink and the Wilpons realize they can’t sell tickets at the current prices, they will lower ticket sales. That’s basic economics.
Yes, ticket prices to ballgames are WAY more than they use to be, and that does shut out certain segments of the population, but I think some people are expecting tickets to be as easy to come by as they have been at Shea — that’s just not the case with any new stadium, regardless of where you live.
i’d like to agree and i dont want/need to get into an economics lecture. although, it has been noted that the mets still have, on average, even with the 20% or so increase, the lowest avg. costing ticket to a game compared to any major new york sports franchise.
even if the mets sucked (blasphemy, i will not stand for it) in 5 years, the market value of the tickets will be dictated by the market price of the other sports teams tix in the area.
i wouldnt hold my breath waiting for prices to drop, ever. Sports teams dont depreciate
Maybe you’re not concerned, Matt, but the average working person is. Ticket prices, along with sky rocketing concession stand prices, are keeping many people that used to attend games fairly regularly, out of the stadiums. The cost of attending a game with the family is prohibitive for many people, and unnecessarily so. Despite the lofty payrolls, most teams (Mets included) continue to rake in huge profits.
The point is that as long as the seats are full and the profits continue to come in, the ownership doesn’t care about the average working class person.
Again. Not Average. NYC salaries highest in country. Your inability to afford not their problem. I am a broken record, and its slow today. Im gonna be hated by 5 PM.
OK, heres a question. I havent posed. 2 guys. Both die hard fans. Both ’successful’ Both make lets say $100k.
One is married with a kid. Wife stays at home, no job. Kid is in precare. Mortgage. Car payments. Communting expenses cause he lives in NJ and works in NYC,
The other is single. He rents. His major expenditures are bud and beer. Pizza for dinner. No mortgage. No Car payments. No commuting expenses
Why is it the Mets problem that one can afford to buy ST;s and divide the costs amongst his buddies, where the other sees his buddies once a month, and no one would consider buying 20 games cause they live 2 hrs away? You want to go to 1 or 2 cherry games a year, cause well….you wanna dammit. In a way its WORSE than the corporations. At least they buy large qualtities of seats. They are good customers. Youre the guy that shows up at the end and wants the same privledges cause you are ‘loyal’…..obsurd….
from a business standpoint, that makes very good sense
Perfect Saltzy. I mean, I take a good portion of my disposable income to put towards the Mets. I am not wealthy, but I find a way to afford the $1405 for my season ticket and I will find a way to afford whatever they charge me next year.
Rather than wait for handouts and complain when I don’t get picked in teh ticket lottery, I decided to take a proactive approach to ensure being at every game that I want to go to.
People that live in places other than NYC like to go to games as well.
And what’s your source pertaining to average NYC salaries? And have you taken into account that the cost of living in NYC is very high as well?
Krumbled Cookie,
Does it make more sense for the Mets to price their seats for the millions of fans who live in NYC and its environs OR for people who travel to see their team maybe a few times a year?
Yes, the cost of living in NYC is high (though the lack of a need for a car is a huge savings over many areas)….but so is the cost of doing business. How does any of that translate into making it easy for the Mets to price their tix lower?
the problem, from the mets standpoint, is that if the family guy can’t bring his kids to the game, then those kids are less likely to grow up to be die hard fans with a close attachment through the team.
Interesting theory but:
1.) Why the assumption that all family guys can’t afford bring their kids to the games? A dad who cannot afford to drop a couple hundred bucks a few times a year at the ballpark? Really? If THAT is the limit of a father’s disposable income – well, WOW, those kids have *far* more serious problems than being able to get to some baseball games!
2.) Even if we grant that SOME family guys will lack the disposable income to get their kids exposed to the Mets at the ballpark – who is to say that those kids won’t catch Mets fever via TV and radio (like so many of us did as kids)? Then, as they see their hapless dads unable to provide even the small joy of a baseball game in person, those kids will grow up on a mission to be more successful than their shifteless dads. That would allow such kids to to afford such minor entertainment expenses as ballgames for themselves and THEIR kids….unlike what their dilatory, penurious dads managed to do for them.
There is no rule that says you must over-indulge in overpriced concessions when at a baseball game. The prices may be absurd, but that is all the more reason to eat before or after you go tot he game. You are at the stadium for 3 hours. You can survive without a hot dog, peanuts, and a soda. The ticket price is the only thing that you should concern yourself with and compared to other sports, baseball is by far the most affordable.
Exactly. Not to mention that Shea has never had any problem with people bringing in their own food. It doesn’t take that much effort to stop somewhere before the game and bring in a whole meal for about $8 and not have to worry about the $5 hot dogs, sodas, etc or the rude vendors that so many people complain about. I remember reading somewhere that you may not be able to do this at Citi Field but I hope that is not the case.
I hope they still allow soft sided coolers at Citifield…
At shea you can bring a soft sided cooler(forget the exact size limit). I bring my old tix to subway, buy one 6″ and get a 6″ for free(coupon on back). Put a few bottles of soda/water in there, and you are good to go…More money for $7 beer!
“And if, god forbid, the Mets really stink and the Wilpons realize they can’t sell tickets at the current prices, they will lower ticket sales. That’s basic economics.”
Give me an example of a baseball team in a big city ever lowering prices no matter how crappy their team is. It doesn;t happen. They may discount the nosebleeds for a game or two but will never make a mass cut in prices after a few years of suckage from the team. The prices now are as low as they’ll ever be. Then, when they get raised next year, that is as low as they’ll ever be. Teams only go up never down.
First off…the season tickets varied from $4300-2800 so there are options I guess…but the average income is $100000 per household…not person…and if you pay rent or have a mortgage and some kids and a car or two then that 100K definitely dwindles your opportunity at season tickets…as for caring about kids…of course the Mets want kids at the game its how they grow fans…if they didn’t care they wouldn’t have a fan zone and a mascot…but I do go to Shea 30 times a year…most of the time its about 30k in the park and the upper deck is empty in the OF…I trust that those of us who get the smaller plans will be offered that opportunity again…there is no way that Citi Field will get 45000 season ticket holders…and if it is not the case next season eventually it will be
my season ticket is $1405 this year. Very affordable for 81 games.
how’d you get it that cheap? I recently looked online at upper-deck season ticks and they were like $2600 per ticket.
You must be looking at upper box. Upper reserve seats are 1405 per ticket.
Call them RIGHT NOW if you really are serious about pulling the trigger. UD Res is $1405 ea, and last week they had ‘a few’….
Go now….what are you waiting for?
You can watch all 162 games in HD from the comfort of your couch at home, and drink something besides $8 bottles of swill at the same time. Could anyone from the so-called golden era of baseball do that?
I’m just waiting for someone to say that “real” mets fans can’t afford HD TVs.
The least expensive tickets 2 seasons ago was $8, last year they lowered it to $5.
That’s because they started that tiered plan. The $5 seat is not always $5 it’s only when the D-Rays come to town.
I was at the games plenty of time with my wife, they were ALWAYS five dollars. (when they were playing a bronze game obviously)
It once used to be, the wealthy were able to afford the good seats and luxury boxes and the regular would sit further away. Now the regulars are completely out.
More fans means more wealthy fans as well. Now the average fan can go to a bar or watch at home, and the only reason the team is covered so thoroughly is because of the size of the fan base and the business. Would you give up all the media coverage, a dedicated TV channel, and the dozens of blogs that get you through a boring work day just so you could have some cheaper tickets a few times a year? I wouldn’t.
Not to mention, if they price their tickets far below the demand level, many “regular fans” will just be selling their tickets on eBay and stubhub.
Don’t mix the tv, medie covererage etc into this, they don’t do it for the fans, they make enough money from that. We’re talking about the stadium and how absurd the prices will be in addition to a bad economy and low availability.
Well if they have miscalculated, then the prices will come down. If regular fans stop going and seats are empty, they will change the way they do business.
I just think some fans want it all. A great team signing the best available players at each position, a dedicated TV network covering the Mets 24/7, a nice ballpark with modern amenities, good seats at “affordable” prices, etc. It’s totally unrealistic, especially since the only time fans stop paying attention is if the team is bad, and even then many fans will keep paying whatever is asked. Just look at the Knicks.
You wouldn’t leave money on the table at your job, so why should the Wilpons do it?
If thats your point, then they should’ve increased the amount of seats, not deduct and increase the price for addmission.
This is actually a very good point. Just ask a parent who has tried to get their kids a ticket to see Hannah Montanna. The problem is they way underpriced the tickets, and the enormous profit potential drew in the scalpers in droves.
completely untrue
i’m a “regular” guy and i bought season tickets and i’m splitting them with friends…
we’re talking about Citi Field, not this year. Aside from the price increase, you will have a hard time getting those plans due to demand.
mrose, you are obviously a terribly wealthy man meaning that you aren’t a “real” fan. I hope citi field reserves a space next to the apple for your helicopter.
(sarcasm)
Ha, yup…You guys wanna go to Peter Lugers before of after we take the Rolls to the private parking and sit in our luxury seats in the UD.
The same ‘avg fans getting screwed’ logic. HELLO?!? You are actively conversting with average fans who clearly have NOT BEEN SHUT OUT….what are you TALKING ABOUT???
You’re probably thilled with the MTA bridges and tunnels and all the other increases, well I’ve got news for you, you’re not the only one around and there are people struggling to make ends meat even before these price inflations. Stop having a selfish point of view.
AHHHH…..YOU are the one with the selfish POV. YOU dont like that the system isnt working for you. You want it to change to satisfy your needs. I adapt.
Oil is $107…Gold is $1000….the dollar is crap. Inflation….prices go up. Companies batten down the hatches….read…..
I don’t think planning ahead and coming up with an idea to make going to 30-40 games a year affordable is selfish.
Also, the idea isn’t that earth-shattering if several other people on this site did the same thing.
If you can’t afford my tickets when I put them up on stub hub, don’t buy them and I will probably lower the price. That is your influence as the consumer.
I can so see it, in six years from now the whole stadium will be completely patched up with with added seats all over the place. They should’ve at least left an open place to be able to add seats in the future when need be.
Sounds like Fenway. Every year they find a way to jam in a few hundred more seats.
Wonder what the view from on top of the CIti video screen wil look like?
Man, this is like listening to political “debate” this time of year!
The lack of seats impacts 2 groups the most. Kids, and people that don’t live in the local market (like me).
Us out of towners are effectively limited to weekend games. And those are the ones that are actually sold out, or close to it (I don’t recall being to a game in the last couple of years where guess the attendance wasn’t well over 50K).
Now, guess who isn’t going to be getting to a couple of games at Citi anytime soon, unless I want to take vacation days in May to try and get into a night game?
I also can’t get to enough games to justify a season ticket plan. Unfortuneately, I also don’t get the games on TV (can you still get the ML package on cable, or just dish?)
Kids get shut out for the same reason. No weekend seats. And I bet a lot of us started out as kids sitting in the nosebleeds and loving every minute of it.
I am sure the Wilpons did the math, and will make more money on the bottom line. Still doesn’t mean that I won’t miss tgetting to games.
Of course, maybe there will be some single game (or small packages) available at Citi, but I am not counting on it.
Maybe in the near future it’s better for the business, but in the long long run when the chidren are adults, they will not want to even go to the games cause they were’nt brought up with it cause it was too expensive to go.
Then the prices will go down.
Though I don’t see why a kid who watches the Mets on SNY every night with his dad won’t be a Mets fan but kid who goes out to Shea every Saturday will be.
I watched the game sometimes when I was real young but after I went to my first game, I was hooked. There’s nothing like it.
after I went to my first game, I was hooked
There’s the nub. You only needed to go one time to get hooked. If you can’t get to a single game of baseball with your kid all season long, odds are it’s because you don’t want it that much, not because it’s too expensive or everything’s always sold out.
Plus, as I said elsewhere – if kids are baseball fans (many of us became fans via TV and radio) and have to endure a dad who is incapable of taking them to a ballgame now and then….isn’t that incentive for the kids to do better in their own lives when they grow up so that they can afford minor entertainment expenses like, you know, baseball games that their penurious dad failed to be able to provide them?
Oh, I forgot the other option.
Don’t even bother to schlep up to Queens, and go see them when they come to Philly!
The thing is though, these days no game is “sold out” – there are tickets available for any game or any event that is taking place. It just means that you have to pay market price for the seat. That isn’t too much to ask.
The fact that tickets can be sold at a premium on sites like stub hub mean that the Wilpon’s are actually charging too little.
My issue isn’t that much with the increase, I”m against the lack of availabilty.
but they are available and will always be available. Anything can be had for the market price. I have never gone to stub hub and not been able to find a seat.
Not taking a side but wanted to adress the rediculous claim that NYC has an average household income of 100k. Forget the fact that there will be a significant difference between median and mean and that fact that the mean is a much more telling number I will still use median prices.
These are from 2005 so they will be a little off but not by much. These are the median household incomes.
Manhattan: $56,000
Brooklyn: $37,000
Queens: $48,000
Bronx: $29,000
Staten Island: $63,000
thanks for posting that….i am on the side of not complaining about the “lack of seats” but i thought that 100k argument was nuts
Lets say it is true (which its definitely not) if you AND your wife come home with 100K, does it make sense to %2 for games?!? Absurd! :)
My Point exactly…and it is not like you buy one seat…you at least by two…and the selling you tickets Stub Hub argument is ok…but how many times do you do to Stub Hub and see seats for less than face value..good ones…it makes owning Tickets a losing proposition fiscally…if you are willing to take the loss for the big games so be it..I also have to say if you think the Mets are going to give up on the smaller plans you are falling for the YOU HAVE TO BUY SEASON TICKETS thing they want you to believe…its not the case…they would not be pushing so hard for two years if they had the place sold out…be patient and some of the plans you like will be avaiiable
I was also going to address the 100k average claim. meeker’s numbers sound much more reasonable and if the 100k includes some of the ridiculous executive salaries it is also distorted. Put ARod and his 30M/yr on a team making 50k per year/each (forget the minimum for a second) and your team’s average salary is about 1.25 million. Not a perfect analogy but not completely unreasonable either.
Oh Lord…OK a little less than $100k…but hows this…
2006 statistics showed that the average weekly wages paid to Manhattan workers is $1,453(Over $75k) (excluding bonuses), the highest in the country’s 325 largest counties, and the salary growth of 7.8% was the highest among the ten largest counties. Pay in the borough was 85% higher than the $784 pay earned weekly nationwide and nearly double the amount earned by workers in the outer boroughs. Manhattan’s workforce is overwhelmingly focused on white collar professions, with manufacturing (39,800 workers) and construction (31,600) accounting for a small fraction of the borough’s employment.[129][137]
Hmm….I wonder if any of these ‘white collar professionals’ like going to baseball games???
Nah, probably not…
Are you forgetting the inflation of oil, food, increase in rent, MTA and basically everything else for that matter.
So, the cost of everything (including doing businss is going up – which means that is what the market will bear – yet you say therefore the Mets should lower their prices????
Sorry, the logic of that escapes me.
Erm, no, the mean is absolutely not in any way a more telling number, which is why median is always quoted when talking about average income.
The median is the income of the “average household” and as such tells you about the experience of most people.
The mean is heavily skewed by the income of the top 1% of earners, whose pay is stratospheric, and as such tells you about the experience of almost noone.
Somewhere along the way someone made the point that if people get more money on StubHub for tickets they must be underpriced. Not true. The market price of tickets when there are 55,000 available differs quite a bit from the price when there are much fewer available. Look on StubHub or Ebay at soldout concerts vs. concerts that did not sell well. It is all supply and demand. Also, if the Wilpons want to raise prices to $200 per ticket and close out much of the population maybe they would get enough wealthy fans to fill the stadium. Over time, this would impact the number of young people that go to game and they would take a hit when it comes to merchandising, advertising, etc. These things are not as simple as many seem to think.
Simple thinking would seem to include your assumption that either wealthy people do not have children or that there are no wealthy young people. Neither, of course is remotely true, especially in NYC.
Saltzy, it is not in the Mets interest to make CitiField the equivalent of a giant Country Club. They would lose in the end. Your sarcasm and arrogance is being wasted on a weak argument.
Most decent country clubs have initiation fees in excess of $25K. And THEN you pay dues, greens fees, food/drink minimums, etc.
As someone above said – he got season tix for less than $2K.
Plus, you can split the cost of season tix – try that at a country club.
Talk about a weak argument.
Look, I realize you were being metaphorical – but, c’mon.
Relax – there WILL be seats available at Citi Field and there will be seats (and standing room – which can be fun if you’ve been at places like Canden Yards or Safeco) that are quite affordable.
Saltzy…not every person works and lives in Manhattan…a majority of the people who go to the games are from the boroughs of Queens and Brooklyn (Staten Island and the Bronx represent as well)…as well as Westchester, Nassau and Suffolk counties and parts of North Jersey…you keep saying Manhattan and while it is important to cultivate that area…a majority of the people are not from there or work their…its very short sighted to use that in your argument considering a majority of the customers are not Manhattan based
Saltzy is probably some rich snobby boss in some sky scraper in Manhattan who sticks to his selfish opinion and doesn’t give a hoot for the middle or lower class. He doesn’t understand that people actually work hard to make ends meat and yes, believe it or not, also deserve to go to games.
I love that I’m the lightning rod on this. Reality-idealist. Objective-Subjective. MY thoughts on the matter are irrevelant just as much as anyones are. Markets dont care about your ‘desires’. Boo hoo….Google was a great buy at its IPO, but I didnt have $75 to buy shares…..Its just not FAIR!!!…I wanna own something that a lot of people want too!!!…Im special!!!…I’m a die hard fan!!!…
The Mets are not in the business of satisfying the weekend warriors who REALLY wanna see the Phils on a Sunday. They are here to make MONEY…..I know there are a lot of non Manhattanites that wanna go to games the same way they used to. TOO BAD….There is plenty of demand from white collar(REAL FANS) with money that want to go, are able to buy ST’s, and keep the place filled on Wed’s 7 years from now without 10,000 empty seats reserved for your precious ‘Saturday family outings’….just cause you wanna be, and keep clinging to this ‘we are the avg fan!!’ montra, does NOT MAKE IT TRUE….the avg Mets fan are the 10 guys at my poker game that watch 150 games a year, make $65-$80k per year, maybe more, and go games aftter getting out of work. You are not. You are people that want the best games, at the lowest possible cost, without having to sacrifice anything. No market in the world cares about your ‘wants’….grow up….
I should clarify that we both are real fans. I just mean that anyone that knows my friends(and our type) knows we are real fans. There are a TON of us around town. I grew up in central Jersey. I know what ‘going to a game’ is when you life there. Its a big deal. It isnt to MANY people up here. we hit up a bar beforehand. Its a 2-3 times a week thing. The Mets have zero obligation to front millions for seats dedicated to those that want them, when THEY want them.
Agree 100% with Saltzy. I’m no hedge fund owner, yet 2 of my friends and I went from 3 season tickets last year to 4 season tickets because the fourth will help us turn a better profit. I’m from central jersey originally and one of my friends buying in on the tickets is still there. He’s obviously going to a lot less games than the other 2 of us who are working in the city/living in Hoboken. But it’s okay for him because we just sell his ticket. Bottom line, if you’re that big a fan, you could buy season tickets, sell all but five games, and probably turn a profit. All it takes is a little attention. Also, for better or worse, running a baseball team is a business, not a charity. If the Mets are going to remain competitive, we need a more profitable stadium like other teams.
Again, you are selfish. I don’t know how you can consider the white collar (with money) the reals fans and the others (”filthy lower class”) worthless. I bet you there are more people at games at any given time that aren’t making $85K. So if you look at the large picture, those are the real fans and YOU are just a fan who takes advantage of there money to get the good seats.
Completely wrong. I LOOOVE how the people that go to 3 games a year are gonna tell the guys that go to 30 games a year about stadium/NYC dynamic. I know MANY guys that make good money. Many that make decent money. Many that make crappy money We all live 45 mins away. We all watch 120-150 games a year, and we all go to the stadium on a REGULAR BASIS.
Everyone here is a ‘real fan’. As in we all root for the team hard. This is obvious. This is also NYC. Its a baseball crazed place. The Mets want to make sure that there are enough seats to satisfy the ‘REGULAR CUSTOMERS’ that frequent their establishment. They have ZERO oblibation to service someone that watches 140 games a year, and wants to go to 1 or 2 primo games a year. NONE. That is what those 10,000 seats will be in 7 years. I agree its gonna be super DUPER hard for you guys for 3-5 years. The Mets arent concerned with you for those years. Sorry. Nor should they have to be. They certainly arent gonna front you millions to build a bigger stadium, thats for sure. You dont give them money, WHY SHOULD THEY??? They are looking forward and saying, “Whats worst case scenerio?’. Its that in 10 years they stick. How many fans can we assume will be there on a Tuesday if were 7 games out. The same 30,000-35,000 that are going this year, without those that just ‘wanna go to a game when they wanna.’ Thats who. They dont owe you a damn thing….
Exactly right!
The whole “DESERVE to be able to go to a game” just drives me nuts. According to what does someone able to afford a ball game DESERVE to be granted the means to attend said game?
And for all those who are whining – I ask, what is the total you fear it will be to attend a ball game? If a ticket in the worst seating section at Citi is $50 per as somebody said yesterday (I doubt thay;ll be that high, but fine, let’s grant that)…..and you want to go to a few games a year – that is $150-200. Over a seson that lasts basically half the calendar year. If you REALLY cannot afford a couple hundred bucks over nearly a 6 month period – donlt you have far larger problems than going to ballgames? I mean, how are you feeding yourself???
I know that sounds snarky – but seriously, fill me in as to how a couple hundred bucks is such an impossible hurdle to traverse?
*they’ll
That’s an unfair dig at Salty. He’s just being realistic. Too many fans think they are entitled to be able to go to whatever games (usually, the premium games) they want to. The reality is that the Mets are a business and they exist to maximize profit. Prices rise in all aspects of our lives. If people weren’t willing to pay them, prices wouldn’t increase. As a result, the Mets are able to exploit the fact that its fan base is so passionate about their team. Think about it: The Mets were able to increase prices after an epic collapse because, instead of losing season ticket holders after the collapse, they gained additional ones.
One thing that actually works in the fans favor is that there are 81 home games. Since most fans have lives outside of baseball, they aren’t going to go to all 81 games. Even season ticketholders will have to sell tickets. While they will profit on their fair share of games, there will be some games where they end up discounting the tickets just to cover their loss especially once the novelty of the new stadium wears off.
Ultimately, what the reduced capacity will do is force fans to be more flexible with respect to the games they attend.
Yup – down with the successful – up with the mediocre!
;-)
Saltzy, if your point is that the Mets are doing the best job they can of making money right now and the immediate future, then you are right. They are doing nothing illegal and it is capitalism at work. However, the Mets are significantly impinging (a Delgado term) on “the regular Joes” ability to get to games. If your point is that the Mets shouldnt care about the regular Joe, and simply do whatever they can to make the most money, then although I dont agree with you, I understand your point. But to pretend like the regular Joe should have no problem paying these prices is crazy. You cant just look at incomes (which by the way your average incomes were way off anyway) but you have to look at expectations (what people expect to pay). Raising prices 20% in one year, and possibly another 20% in 09 if the same raise occurs, would mean that over the course of 18 months tickets prices went up 40%. While a 40% increase probably means nothing to a corp, it means something to a “regular Joe.” Again, you might say the Mets dont need to cater to regular Joes, just make the most profit…..ok point taken, but I dont think Jeff Wilpon would admit that is his goal.
well said
FYI- 20% increase in ‘08 and 20% increase in ‘09 = 44% increase from ‘07 to -09
Unreal. All this coimplaining is insane. First of all – nobody knows what the heck the plan or ticket options will be next year – I would all but guarantee there is reserved games for affordable prices. This year alone there is 12 games where UD seats are less than a MOVIE – and almost less than RENTING a movie. Another 22 games have UD seats for $10 bucks – Including games #2 and 3 versus the Phillies – two great early season games and three weekend series. I am not arguing about what people can and should spend money on or be able to spend money on – everyone has their own stuff to deal with, but to say that going to a Mets game is unaffordable is simply untrue – more than 45% of the games this year have tickets below $10.
bottom line- 20% increase
And below that… still the cheapest top-level sports tickets in the NY metro area.
Those $5 and $10 tickets are only available because of Shea’s extra seating. Next year, those seats won’t be available because of the smaller capacity.
We’re talking about the limited availabilty and increase of next year not this year.
exactly what I meant
And one more thing – the fact that I make multiples of what I made 8 years ago did not reduce how big of a fan I am. Just so nobody here who classifies themselves as poor and therefore a real fan needs to worry that if they do make more money, it will hurt their fandom. it doesn’t.
agreed- that is insane
The only one who classifiedsreal fan from not in regard to wealth status, is Saltzy. Nobody agrees wit him.
It was actually me. Maybe Saltzy did too, but it was in response to people complaining that raising ticket prices will prevent “real” fans from attending the games. This is a clear implication that real fans do not have the means to attend baseball games. Saltzy disagrees with that (i am pretty sure) as he should.
In short, I understand inflation, I understand EVERYTHING goes up (except salary. (of course not, who wants to pay a worker who blogs all day). My point is that instead of making life easier, they go ahead and and limit the seat availability, which only is a stab in the back.
the yankees who draw more fans than the mets and have a larger fan base and demand for tickets than the mets also pulled a few thousand seats out of their new stadium. It is to make the stadium better.
WHY CAN’T ANYONE BE HAPPY WITH THE $800,000,000 STADIUM THAT IS BEING GIVEN TO US???
I’m thilled, I think the design is stunning. Can’t wait.
The Federal Reserve needs to step in. They should buy up all the Mets tickets for the next 20 years and give them out free to real fans. It’s not like they have anything else to do.
Yup -after we finish bailing out dimwits who signed mortgages they could never afford and now clamor for us to let them off the hook by using our money, there should be a federal bailout of Mets fans who cant drop a couple hundred a year going to a few ballgames.
Youre my boy blue…
Ill check for huge flaws in logic on odd numbered hours…you take the even ones….
Isnt it great when realism just pounds the crap out of idealism….just love it….
free everything for everyone isn’t realism?
Wish I could keep it up – but I am mid-move to a new condo. You’l have to hold the fort.
Hey, this is BS… why do I have to buy my own season tickets? According to half the people on this thread, going to mets games is my right as a real met fan…
who do the wilpons think they are charging a fee to go to their $800 mil stadium?
Only if we account for enough free stuff for those that just wanna pop their heads and taste it once in a while. Otherwise it wouldnt be fair. You guys are fabulous.
Its funny though. I dont wanna get mad at the other side. I just want them to say, ‘Hey, theyre right!’ and jump abord the logic train. We are all obviously die hards and I would much rather have them sittifng next to me over some corporate bozo that doesnt know 3 players. The issue is they think their loyalty (and 3 games a year) is worth more than bandwagon corporate people whos company buys 81 games. Kinda sad. Beat the system, dont complain about it. Not to sound like a d*ck(too late), but you think theres a reason the ‘common’ fans are lost on this, and complain non stop, and the others have some money and are looking at it as an investment? Kinda see what I mean here? We ‘get it’….they are trying to make it just, and favorable to them….
you’re right… there is probably a correlation between those being smart enough to have the foresight to plan ahead also being the same people who are successfull enough to have the means to do something about it.
Those who choose to spend their time complaining about how unfair the system is and how they’ve been slighted are the people who do not have the means to make a difference.
Not to over generalize, but some people are do-ers and some people don’t do anything and complain when nobody does it for them.
Also, I would like to apologize to Salyzy… half the things he is being killed for was actually due to something I said. Sorry man… see you at citi
funny how that works…
What a coincidence! ;-)
we can all agree that your income doesn’t dictate you fan-dom. because i can afford a field box to split with a couple friends doesnt make me any better then someone with a UR season ticket or the person who can’t (or chooses not to) pay for a ticket package. we can also all agree that the mets fan base is not just manhattan. it actually is predominently Long Island and Queens but again there are legit hard core fans in all the boroughs, jersey, westchester etc.
The bottom line is if you are going to go to more than an occasional game don’t complain about not getting a ticket next year because you are too lazy to get a group together and buy a package. maybe matt can make a link on this site (like the islanders just did) where people who want to share a package can get together.
No one wants to hear complaining from the guy who claims he can’t even go to one game which is patently absurd. MLB requires a certain amount of tickets be reserved and sold at cheap prices. why do you think they do the $5 seat? b/c they have to and b/c it gets them good PR as being seemingly altruistic & b/c its helps get their average ticket price down etc. You have a new stadium, you have an increased fan base and you have a good product in the largest metropolitan area in the country. and still you can go on craig’s list and find someone who can’t go on short notice, or go on stub hub and hope there aren’t other ‘true fans’ who are willing to spend a couple more dollars then you to get to their one or two games a year. going to a baseball game in person is not some god given right.
How much do you pay for your box and split between how many people and is it a good view?
outer field boxes are about 8500 for 2 seats (4200+ per seat if i recall) i opted for right field turn seats rather then a couple sections over where you have to crane your neck and body towards the infield (plus their were limted field boxes left) they’re my favorite seats with a great view unless you are going to make the jump to inner field boxes which are much more expensive. we split the seats between 7 people with some taking more than one share. least amount of tix you coul buy was 8 games for 850, some got 12 games. i know not everyone can afford that so spare me that response. as saltzy and mackey pointed out you can have a UR seat for 1400 so you can have the same thing up there for 1/3 of the price. we will also have a great seat at citi since we are only a handful of rows off the field.
and amen to using craigs list, who wants to pay stub hub a ridiculous 15% commission with the buyer having to pay another 10%, its highway robbery
And finally – myself, and many others on Craigslist have been offering tickets for sale this season – at FACE value, with the right for people to continue to buy the same number of games next season at FACE value in Citfield. Of course premium games are excluded, but because I am attending them. Many season ticket holders on CL are doing this.
FABULOUS POINT….I meant to bring it up earlier. Thats not fair though. I dont wanna have to lay out money now for something I get later. I wanna roll out of bed on a beautiful Sunday morning, and see MY Mets play the Phils in a brand new $800 Mil park. I wanna be able to to this day of, pay face value, not pay tolls, not pay high stadium prices for consessions, and park for free….OH and I want the Mets to win 4-2 on a Wright Walk Off HR in the 9th.
The market is unfair if it cannot provide this to me.
ROFL – it is amazing that otherwise intelligent people have this attitude. I blame the school systems and a political culture of dependency.
gipper, it’s easier to just blame the wilpons.
That seems to be the consensus of the aggrieved.
One other quick point I made on a post earlier that I dont think anyone read. PLEASE read what the Dallas Cowboys are doing to their ST’s holders for their new stadium. I beg of you. These are full season, diehard, regular fans that have had accounts forever.
For good seats they are asking for something like $50K PER for PSL’s….just for the right to buy tickets. Now THAT is eliminating ‘real’ fans. That is catrering to just the rich. Theres no way around that. You’re not gonna find 3-5 guys to split that up with. You are forced to give up your seats you’ve owned forever. So please stop with the ’screwing the avg’ guy speech from here on out. Oh, some of the fans of the Seattle Sonics would like to meet you outside for a quick second. They paid a few hundred mil for renovations a few years back and are now being told if they wont pay for a $500 mil arena the team is gonzo….now THAT is screwing the avg guy…..
Someone from the side of ‘The Force’ PLEASE reply on this one so us on the ‘Dark Sider’ can point out how and where you are wrong….
Can we set up some sort of debate to put this thing to rest once and for all… it can be moderated by cerrone (or one of his guys if matt is too busy). Gipper, Saltzy, Magadan, and myself ingaging in a serious discussion with those who have issues with the way the wilpons treat the average fan or the way citi field is being put together.
It is getting old that we have to rehash these same points every time there is a post about citi field on this site.
Can you make this happen Matt?
Sadly, peopel will refuse tro see the light and it will never be put to rest.
However, setting up a side thread might be usefu since any stadium reference in any post devolves into this same old tit for tat..
*people….*useful….sorry for typos…replying on my phone.
I’m very very sorry, but it feels like most of you, including you, Matt are totally out-of-touch in what in my opinion, is a shameful way. Why should any of us support the Mets or MLB in their dispicable insistence on taking full advantage of supply and demand and milking the public that can still afford to go for every friggin dollar they can get? They have an exemption from the US government, my friends, because they are perceived to be in a special status. They are abusing this status. Although many of you feel that this is just a business, it is not JUST a business. It would be like the person or corporation that owns the Empire State Building deciding that they were only gonna let people up to the top if they bought a special license. Yeah, Empire State Building Observation Tower for Members Only.
Baseball in NY for those of you who are under 30 and haven’t read about it’s history has all of these years, until rather recently been affordable for blue collar workers. When you folks talk about avg. NYC salaries being 100,000 clams, what’s wrong with you?! So, some are making a half mil and those cleaning the toilets are making 20 thou. What the hell? So, a janitor cleaning the school that some rich kid goes to shouldn’t be allowed to bring his family to the ballpark on a Saturday afternoon, because of “market forces”. NO – DAMN IT! This is baseball and I say, and it’s me Cver talking now – that any of you who think that these folks should be excluded from seeing Met games are out of touch with the real world and I must say unfortunately “Shame on you”.
Society is becoming more and more divided into the haves and have-nots in a way not ever seen before. I’m not talking about affording a Harvard education. I’m talking about going to a baseball game in the upper decks with a packed lunch. What’s wrong with all of you? I’m not trying to be personal here. This isn’t addressed at anyone in particular. I’ve just read a lot of posts here that are saying that if you don’t have at least 100 dollars to shell out, don’t even bother coming to a Mets game in 09. It was just last season, I think somebody wrote that there were 5 buck seats at Shea. This is an unnacceptable sea change. I think it is horrible that MLB and the Wilpons and NYC are allowing this. I think it is nearly unforgivable to see all of my dear buddies on here act so apathetic and so accepting of what is happening.
I do understand that there maybe isn’t a lot that can be done. But one thing you all can do is protest, write letters, go to less games, and if you are so huge a fan, at least threaten to the Mets to go to less games. Probably none of this will make a difference. My point is that so many of you are practically endorsing these ticket hikes and greeted the new stadium with less seats with open arms. Look, I don’t think it matters if you can afford it, it matters whether the folks that could go to a game 5 years ago will still be able to go in 5 years from now. Sorry if my comments seem over-the-top, but the passivity over this that I’m seeing here upsets me. From many of you, I don’t see even a hint of the great distaste I see for this new policy of exclusiion that is being hurled upon society and in this case NY baseball fans.
You know, I just looked at the ticket prices now and realize that they aren’t so ridiculous, so I must take back, to a certain degree, some of what I wrote. I see now that for some games, tickets are available for 5 dollars still and for others for 10. So, for some games, it’s less than a movie. Gee, I didn’t realize this, so sorry about that. I will add that I hope that I STILL hope that the new stadium won’t destroy these possibilities.
5 bucks for the pittsburgh pirates of penzance, no doubt. and hopefully you won’t want to park (we have to drive here in LA) or consume any beverages on a hot summer day. what’s next, pay bathrooms?
there used to be a sport played on ice, they called it hockey, i think. if you think that can’t happen tobaseball, tell that to the next teary eyed Canadian you meet.
So Cver, i see your outrage, and raise you some rage.
there’s market forces, then there’s gauging. lots of our fellow fans welcome our corporate overlords, which is a good thing, cause they’ll be sitting right next to them (should they be able to afford it).