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Yesterday, Orlando Hernandez threw a four-inning, 80-pitch simulated game at Tradition Field.
Following the ‘game,’ he told reporters he is scheduled to start in a real game on Sunday at home against the Cardinals.
According to multiple reports, Hernandez topped out at 81 mph, while mostly throwing fastballs in the upper 70s.
…yesterday, in the comments section of this site, sincekindergarten wrote the following:
“81 mph??? I drive faster than that.”
…which made me laugh out loud…well played…
Willie Randolph, on El Duque, yesterday afternoon:
“With El Duque, you’ve got to go one day at a time.”
…man, you can say that again…i mean, usually this would be an expression…with el duque, it’s the absolute truth…
For more on Hernandez’s simulated game, including a tepid reaction from Omar Minaya, read the Daily News, Newsday, the Star-Ledger, and the Bergen Record.
Mike Pelfrey also threw a simulated game yesterday at Tradition Field, of which Steve Popper writes the following in the Record:
“He not only threw 90 pitches in six innings, but had far more life on his deliveries than El Duque.”
Ramon Castro, who caught Pelfrey during yesterday’s ‘game,’ said the following to reporters after the outing:
“He’s a different pitcher than last year. He’s more confident. He’s got other pitches he can use. He can be behind the hitter and throw a changeup, or a slider…Last year, it would be basically be all fastballs.”
…i understand that when orlando is healthy, he can be a huge asset, because he is crafty, a winner and has tons of experience pitching in big games…the thing is, he’s never healthy…
…so, emotionally speaking, and considering that pelfrey has looked better, i’m starting to wonder why the Mets bother to go through this charade every five days, since we all assume it’s only a matter of time before el duque comes up lame again…
…fortunately, the Mets do not have to rush to make a decision…they can avoid making definitive statements, and wait and see how both pitchers progress through the next month, at which point they’ll need to decide on a fifth starter…
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Well I hope pelfrey be the 5th starter, because El Duque is old and can’t play anymore.
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“Considering that pelfrey has looked better, i’m starting to wonder why the Mets bother to go through this charade every five days, since we all assume it’s only a matter of time before el duque comes up lame again”
Matt you summed it up perfectly. I understand the organization has a ton of respect for Duque, but he can never be relied upon, he’s not the same pitcher. The Mets should be more invested in a young pitcher like Pelfrey,who was a high draft pick and was given a very large bonus over a guy like Duque, whose obviously on the way out. I just don’t understand the logic of this organization sometimes, why not put some faith in Pelfrey and give the kid some confidence instead of making him feel like a fall back option.
i agree. El duque is not dependable when we need him the most. I think we should have pelfry as the 5th starter for the valuable experiance and not to mention he will be a starter next year for sure. I think duque will last longer and be more effective out of the pen. He needs to check that ego at the door and do whats best for the team and breaking down right before the playoffs isnt helping the campaign.
but the bullpen is already stocked with people. idk this is a tough situation because both make fine #5 starters but i guess the nod will be to duque only because experiance. I think pelf got it to be the 5th starter and can last the year being the 5th starter but like someone mentioned before duque is making 6mill and what a waste to have him pitching in AAA. Duque is due for a DL trip sometime this year. I guess thats when we will see pelf take that spot.
there is a major issue at play here…assuming duque is 100% healthy by the time we need a 5th starter, and that is there is no where to put duque if they decide to go with pelfrey. the bullpen is pretty much stocked and loaded for the season. even if sanchez starts the year on the DL. Eventually, there will be no room in the bullpen for duque.
if go with duque early, you can always use pelfrey later on. you really can not go the reverse.
The thing is, El Duque is making 6 million this year. If this new delivery allows him to simply be on the mound, I have a hard time seeing Omar and Willie not using him, regardless of how much life he has on his pitches. Salary aside, he’s a veteran who has earned his stripes with Willie from their Yankee days as well as the Mets. I think Duque is going to get chance after chance after chance to be the #5 starter.
The $6M is a big deal and was not a really good gamble because Duque does not match their needs at the #5.
given 1-4, what the Mets would really benefit from out of their #5 is length, eat innings and leave the offense with a fighting chance.
Pelfrey can be the hands down #5 if he can consistently pitch into or past the 6th inning and have an ERA around 5. that means he would not tax the bullpen like the parade of clowns the Mets have thrown out in that spot over the past two years.
Pelfrey must pitch to contact so as not raise his pitch count to 100 in the 5th inning and keep the ball down in the zone so that contact does not result in a barrage of extra base hits which will torch the bullpen with an early exit.
for what the Mets need in the #5, Pelfrey has everything but the results. I would give him the ball because if he fails, the Mets are no worse than they have been in that spot for the past two years, but if he suceeds (25-30 starts, 150-175 ip, sub 5 era) it will really enhance an already top line rotation
5 IP and 3 runs on a regular basis would be fine from the #5 starter on this team. They will score enough runs to win a few of those games and the pen should be good enough to hold onto many of those games. However it will be an issue if Pedro, Maine, and Perez average less than 6IP/g.
If Pelfrey goes something like: 30 starts, 150-160 IP, 5.25 ERA, 125-150 K’s, he should be somewhere around 10-10, which would be enough to make the Mets a 100 game winner if the other four starters do thier part.
“given 1-4, what the Mets would really benefit from out of their #5 is length, eat innings and leave the offense with a fighting chance”
While neither of the guys have shown the ability to eat innings (say 7ish/start), Pelfrey has not shown the ability to keep his team in the game, hence the ugly W-L record last year.
Brandon Webb was the only pitcher in baseball who averaged 7+ IP/start last year.
I’ll be happy with 7+ IP/start out of Johan Santana, I would be exstatic is anyone else on the team even comes close. Asking Pelfrey or Duque to average 6 is probably pushing expectations too far…
The $6 mil shouldn’t come into the team’s thinking at all.
The only thing worse than wasting $6 mil on someone who doesn’t pitch for the big club would be wasting on someone who loses a bunch of games.
We’re paying the money either way, it should be a purely baseball decision. Let’s just hope Duque steps up and earns it, and I’m not ready to say he won’t. Like Matt said, there’s no need to rush to judgement yet.
I just want to see el Duque throw an eephus every couple of pitches when the pitcher is up. That’ll screw with everyone for a while. I think he’s done it before…(?)
I also just want to say we have a pitcher that utilizes the eephus…
I’d rather have a pitcher whose name is Ee phus rather than one who uses it, especially if it is El Duque.
Speaking of Eephus, remember when Mcguire was marching toward 70 and he faced, I think the Twins, and some one basically pitched him slow pitch softball style (not underhand just a high arcing slow pitch) and I think he struck out.
I know I sound awful, but I kinda want El Duque to get touch up this sunday when he pitches his first ST game. Willie kept saying he’s my starter… willie needs evidence/proof to show he can no longer be a start, not even the 5th starter. Give the spot to the kid and move Duque to the pen
A bad ST start is not going to convince Willie or Omar of anything. It;s going to be starts in April and May that will determine the fate of El Duque.
indeed, lets just do a little planning…
after Sunday 3/23 vs Cards his next turn would be 3/28 when the Mets go to Ft. Lauderdale to play the Orioles. If Duque gets hammered against the Cardinals I would bet Duque doesnt make that trip and instead does a minor league or simulated game in St. Lucie.
Then the team goes north (Miami is south actually but whatever) and Duque will stay behind pitching in more ST games were Willie and Omar cant see him for themselves. Hopefully the people watching him will convince Omar of whatever is best to do on 4/12.
Anyway, chances are this ST game against the Cardinals will be the only time Willie sees him against big league hitters until 4/12. So its easy to say dont judge that game to much, but what else will they have to go on?
It won’t be anything to go on whatever, since he’ll be spotting his pitches not trying to win.
I’d be surprised and very disappointed if the team based who pitches on the 28th on the result from Sunday.
I’d be surprised and very disappointed if the team based who pitches on the 28th on seniority or contract.
wait a minute, what does the 28th have to do with anything?
I’m looking at El Duque’s next two spring training starts, if he shows he is healthy, then the Mets have every reason to start him but otherwise, if he gets bombed and shows no improvements, then it’s time to cut ties or get some team to think of El Duque as that big game pitcher which was a few years ago.
El Duque’s injuries have gotten worse to the point where he misses more than a month at a time. Now El Duque is not going to use his leg kick which created alot of his deception and hid the ball well. Hitters aren’t going to be afraid of his more tamed leg kick with a 81 MPH fastball coming at them.
Who knows, maybe it does work and he gets hitters out but I don’t have a good feeling about it. That’s just my opinion on it. That plus all of his injuries, it’s just going to embarrass himself even further.
A leg kick does not provide deception against a major league hitter. The leg is down and out of the way by time the arm comes forward with the ball and thats what a major league hitter is looking for.
His problem is that the new leg kick means a new landing point for his lead foot. Landing it in the same spot time after time with the foot pointing at his target. Thats something he has to learn to do and it comes with repetition. It’s one of the reasons he’s had problems with his control. The velocity problem has to be from his bunion. He changed the leg kick to flatten out his foot so as not to put much pressure on it and feel pain. To do this he would have to keep the back leg straighter them usual, which would mean less push off from the rubber. Less push off means less legs, more arm, slower velocity. Try it yourself. Keep your back foot flat on the ground and push on it like you were delivering a pitch, then do it again putting your weight on the ball of your foot (when he says he experiences pain). You can feel the difference in the push off. I dont think your going to see that much more velocity then what he’s shown already unless he tries to ignore the pain. Peterson has to know this and is just giving a veteran the benefit of the doubt.
I would agree Matt, if Pelfrey actually looked better, which I’m still not convinced about.
After two very good spring starts, he’s shown his old penchant to falling behind too many hitters, not throwing his off-speed offerings with any consistency, and wide-varying velocity on his fastball.
I’m also still not convinced that his September last year was anything to point to and say there’s been progress. He had an amazing start in Atlanta and then went back to the same pitcher he was in April, pitching inefficiently against two bad teams in Houston and Washington, despite getting wins in both games. He couldn’t pitch out of the 6th inning in both games, still walked too many compared to his strikeouts, gave up WAY too many hits given the innings he pitched. And let’s not forgot his abominable start against Wash. the last week of the year. Pelfrey needs to and has to start the season in AAA and stay there until he proves he’s shown real progress. Not one game of progress and then 3 games of same-old same-old.
The big mistake for Omar and Co. here is they should have been following Duque all winter long because if they knew then what we know now, they could have cut this off at the pass and signed a Loshe or a Livan for a one-year stopgap. The FO is just way too nonchalant about Duque.
The Mets should just rotate Pelfrey and El Duque in the 5 spot. Gives the mets the chance to spot the matchup they want and keep El Duque healthy.
So essentially, make each pitcher have 10 days off between starts? How can that help them maintain sharp and get into a rhythm?
Throw a simulated game, have them pitch out of the pen that day. These are million dollar players, keeping them sharp shouldnt be that difficult. Not to mention, given that you know El Duque is going to miss time, it might keep him healthier.
Does anyone know why Duque didn’t have the bunion removed in in the off-season? Seems like Duque is a “me” kinda guy. No care for the team with his lack of effort to get his foot issues resolved and his declaration that he is “a starter.”
Is he lacking a commitment to getting healthy or is it just me?
I think I remember reading somewhere that getting the bunion removed would have required months of recovery time and would have caused him to miss most if not all of the season.
I wondered the same thing. Why not get the surgery in early October, giving him a good 4 months to recover before the season even starts.
Now, I don’t know what the surgery (and afteraffects) are like, but the reaon he didn’t mind be this:
He has a guaranteed deal for 2008, and knows it is his last year. If he didn’t want or need the surgery for post-baseball activities, he pretty much decided to steal money this year, knowing that he most likely wouldn’t be able to play, at least not effectively.
I thought I heard on the radio that it would have taken “years” for him to recover from bunion surgery. Given he doesn’t have “years” left in his career, I guess he decided to play through pain like Pedro and his toe.
Duque said it would take two years to recover from the surgery. Since he’s the only one I’ve heard a comment from who’s actually spoken to his doctors, I have to believe that.
How is it selfish to forsake the road that guarantees he can’t pitch this year for the one that gives him a chance to? He’d still have gotten his 6 mill if he had the surgery and never threw a pitch.
I still think that the plan that makes sense is to break camp with 4 starters, with Duque on the DL/extended ST (whatever it is at the time) trying to get ready. pelfrey goes to AAA, and makes a start the first week of the season (say 4/6?).
When 4/12 rolls around, assuming that is the day they need the 5th starter (and with rain outs, who knows), they make the call on what to do.
3 options:
1) Start Duque, and plan to keep him in the rotation until he either completely pitches himself off the team, or gets hurt again.
2) Call up Pelfrey. But, this leads to the dilema of what to do if Duque is ready in another week or 2? Does Pelf go back down, regardless of how he pitches?
3) Start Sosa for 1 turn.
Option 3 makes sense if they want to get Pelf established in AAA and not yo-yo up and down, but Duque needs anothe rtune up start. Sosa then is just a stop gap.
The only way IMO you see option 2 is if Duque really has nothing, or gets hurt, and the Mets figure he is going to be out for a considerable period of time before he could possibly join the big club.
If I had to guess, option 1 is the Mets current plan (hope?) and what they are expecting to do.
The Mets don’t “need” a 5th starter until the 4/19 game, depending on how they shuffle 1-4 around. Assuming they keep Johan and Pedro on regular rest and just push around Perez and Maine, the first start on the schedule for a #5 would be 4/19.
This leaves a full month for a solution and hopefully we only have to see Sosa from the pen. By then it should be clear if El Duque is ready to go or if Pelf will get an early shot. I hope that if they go with Pelf, and he performs, they won’t bounce him up and down depending on Duque’s health…
They would have to pitch Perez and Maine on 3 days rest to get through the 6 games of 4/8 to 4/13.
They will need a 5th starter on 4/12 or 4/11 if they dont want Pedro pitching on 4 days rest three times in a row.
It wouldnt be a bad idea to get to 4/19 by going Sosa/pen by commitee on 4/12 (or 4/11) because of all the off days (and lack of a 5th starter pitching) giving the pen a lot of rest.
stick: if they are going to use Sosa as a starter I would probably prefer they mix him into the first nine games somewhere rather than shelve him in the pen for two weeks after stretching his arm out. Not sure how that works best though…
True…my mistake
Sosa has pitched 12 innings over 6 games. I don’t know that there’s time to “stretch his arm out” before we’d need him
He’s gone 3 innings, so I would think he could go 5 by then. It would be pen by committee with Sosa going as far as he can.
Really, the only reasons not to use Pel