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…the buzz from Tradition Field seems to be that Mike Pelfrey leads the race for the the team’s fifth starter, while Fernando Tatis leads for the bench due to his versatility…
…as i wrote yesterday, the Opening Day roster is shaping up to be some variation of the following:
Starting Pitchers: Johan Santana, Pedro Martinez, Oliver Perez, John Maine and either Pelfrey or Nelson Figueroa.
The Bullpen: Billy Wagner, Aaron Heilman, Pedro Feliciano, Scott Schoenweiss, Jorge Sosa, Matt Wise and either Joe Smith or Brian Stokes.
Position Players: Brian Schneider, Carlos Delgado, Luis Castillo, Jose Reyes, David Wright, Carlos Beltran, Angel Pagan and Ryan Church.
Bench: Raul Casanova, Damion Easley, Marlon Anderson, Endy Chavez and either Tatis or Brady Clark.
Disabled List: Orlando Hernandez, Duaner Sanchez, Ruben Gotay and Ramon Castro.
According to Bart Hubbach in the New York Post, who breaks down the potential roster as well, the Mets have until Sunday to submit their 25-man roster, “And Willie Randolph is talking as if they plan to use every hour before the deadline.”
By the way, to learn more about Figueroa, who is from Coney Island, check out Vic Ziegel’s column for the Daily News.
For more on the roster, read the Journal News, the Star-Ledger, and the New York Times.
…by the way, during Ed Coleman’s appearance on WFAN yesterday, the station’s drive-time hosts, Mike Francesa and Chris Russo, goofed on the Mets for giving up on Angel Pagan, who the team was ‘in love with earlier in the spring,’ going on and on about how pagan will not be part of the bench, and what a mistake that will be, etc…never once did it occur to them that the reason pagan was not listed as part of the bench is because he’ll be starting in place of Moises Alou…ugh…
why can’t we all just BAN OURSELVES from listening to those morons???
it’s like a car accident. you can’t turn away.
Joe and Evan are quickly becoming just as obnoxious to me, and they’re Mets fans.
I agree and Joe only gets worse during the season. He’ll flip out about a loss in the first week of the season as if it eliminated them from the playoffs.
I have to turn them off sometimes. Benigno gets unlistenable and is really irritating and grating. He’s certainly not the sharpest knife in the drawer.
I used to like him overnight, but I feel that when he is on during the day, it is an act. he was more real overnight.
Easy Solution for WFAN, Just let the Schmooze take over and have him on 24/7.
Gotta Love the Schmooze
In the words of Dog:
“Bad job there” by Cerrone in placing the blame squarely on Mike and Chris…
It was Ed Coleman who made the mistake and who is supposed to know this stuff…granted Mike and Chris should have corrected him….but I don’t think it is fair to kill them for the mistake that Coleman made, since he is supposed to be the stations authority on the Mets…
Did Coleman bother to correct them?
No he did not.
It seemed to slip Coleman’s mind as well. Ed said that the last bench spot was “down to Pagan and Clark.” I tried to call in to correct them of this, none of the 3 men realized that they were only putting together a 24 man roster due to Alou starting on the DL….
In Coleman’s defense, if he is anything like me, he can’t stand listening to them so much that he just wasn’t listening to them and was just “yessing” them to get off the phone.
Mike & the Mad Dog = tools
Again, huge mistake with the whole Register thing. Figueroa was only good in the Caribbean World Series, Stokes is extremely hittable and Joe Smith continues to get lit up. They better find a way to keep Register.
What did Coleman say? Was he like Yeaaaa Mike he’s starting in left. Of course after Mike does his condescendin laugh and russo joins in obnoxiously… I F N HATE THEM
Nope, Coleman is the one who made the mistake initially…
I think the criticism of Mike and Dog here is a little much since it was the “Mets expert” who made the mistake to begin with….
Cerrone’s post is misleading in that respect, IMO….
Let’s give Eddie a break; he’s on the DL also with that protective boot.
fat casanova instead ofg us molina is a mistake
I don’t think that’s going to make or break us.
Surprising about Tatis, but the same analysis holds. Is it that tough to find right-handed hitters?
Tatis costs us nothing, is versatile in defense, and hit well in AAA last year.
That’s a combination that’s going to be hard to better with available players.
As for catcher, I’d have thought the most intriguing of our batch of minor league catchers is Manriquez – and not just because of his homer off Santana in his first live BP as a Met.
If Pelfrey is the answer, then what is the question?
Who will be the first of the six Mets 5th Starter this year?
The question is which Pelfrey are we going to get? If it is the early season one- we have trouble, if it is the late season one we should be ok. Roll the dice and see what comes up- hopefull not crap(s)
If we get ‘06 Pelfrey then we will be in amazing shape….
Back in ‘06 Pelf was throwing his 2-seamer at 96+, which is Carlos Zambrano, Roy Halladay-esque…..its just incredible….usually guys can’t throw their 2-seamer that hard with the type of movement he was getting on it…
I don’t know what the Mets did to mess with the kids head, but he is now throwing that pitch in the low 90s and can’t even get his 4-seamer up to 98 anymore like he did in college and in his first pro season….
They obsessed about his control and wanted him to use his 2 seamer to get ground balls and made him focus on that instead of being a power pitcher. Since then, his velocity dropped, the strikeout rate plummeted, and it’s been downhill ever since.
I heard an interview with Pelfrey during spring training of ‘06. They were asking him about his velocity because he was only throwing 90-92 as opposed to the 97 he was throwing in college. He said it happens every year and it normally takes him until a few weeks into April to get up to full speed of 96-97. I always thought that because of that, he should show up to camp 3 weeks earlier so he is ready when the bell rings, but at least it isn’t an arm issue, it just takes him longer to let it fly (maybe because he is so tall and lanky, it might take him longer to get his mechanics all straightened out)
Well he never got it going in ‘07….that is what I was referring to…not his spring training velocity of this year since that is normal for everyone…I mean Johan has only been throwing like 91..lets hope that bumps up next week or later on in the month…
a few thoughts…
1) Pelfrey doesn’t belong anywhere near the roster, for his own good and for the good of the Mets. They should go after proven crap in Vargas or let Figueroa start in order to let Pelfrey spend his year at AAA getting his stuff together.
2) Casanova will be a pleasant surprise with the bat, though I think Molina could probably hit lefties better.
3) If Joe Smith makes the team, there’s absolutely no reason for him to ever face a lefty (at least until he gets his groove back).
lol “proven crap”…nice one
i DO agree that they should put Pelfrey in the minors, duque on the 15 day DL and try to sign Claudio Vargas. I can see Peterson working him and making him more consistent. and NO i am not a BLIND mets fan thinking the jacket can turn him into a 2 but he’s only pitching out of the 5 spot. if he’s a 5th starter, he’s gonna get his tits lit at times like everyone else, but hopefully with a better team, coach, offense, defense, etc, he can turn around and at least give us 6 SOLID/DECENT innings every 5th day, so when we turn the ball over to Johan the next day, he doenst HAVE TO WIN at all costs….vargas baby..and im not talking jason
I think the main issue is whether you can get anything out of el duque. if they can get 2 good months out of him and then just an average 4 months of the 5th starter merry go round, then they should be ok.
what scares me is if one of the top 4 guys have to go to the DL. then all of a sudden, it is a scary rotation.
Good point about Elduque, however Vargas will not be around in 2 months. I would take a risk there and then maybe look into Marquis. If no action then I would wait and see. Patience sometimes is good and bad.
Alay Soler!
What’s wrong with you? A child might be reading this blog.
The horror.
What the hell happened to him? A-Rod hits two homeruns off of him and he disappears off the face of the planet.
ITS THAT TIME BABY..
LIMA TIMEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE WOOOO
totally off track here..but Johnny Maine was coming up the same time we were experimenting with Soler.
Anyone remember Maine’s first outting as a Met? I remember watching him pitch cause Bannister had a blister or something, and just feeling so sorry for the guy because every bone in my body just wanted him to be lights out. I think he got shelled..or wait..this was his line
Date Team Score Dec IP H R ER HR BB K W L SV IP ERA
May 2 WAS 2-6 L 5.1 6 4 4 1 2 6 0 1 0 5.1 6.75
I remember watching him on the mound..i swore he was going to start crying. He came back up in July and stayed for good after bannister went on the DL again.
And now..Ladies and Gents..hes my fav player.
oh yea PS – i have a man crush on him.
Maine actually hurt one of his fingers while warming up for that game, and as a result wasn’t able to use all his pitches
And if it stays as is when Alou is back Tatis goes down and Pagan is in…………..Easley will get most of the AB’s at 1B vs some lefties…………..hope Pagan shows he can hit some Lefties
Let’s see what happens over the next few days with the last spots and if they do any tweaking like Murton and Vargas
I would go get Vargas right now, then trade Gotay and Smith for Murtton. If I can’t get Vargas I would add Show to the Cubs trade and take back Marquis. Vargas or Marquis would be very capable #5 and send Elduque to the Long man role.
the more i think about tit the more i really think we need to go after murton, the guy could be an everyday player. he can start in place of alou and if alou ever gets healthy and church shows his weakness for LHP murton can play for church. i really dont see a single reason how murton isnt worth gotay and a reliever.
YESSSSSS!!! Matthew Murton is the ideal candidate for the bench in many ways….
Last time I championed this much for a player acquisition, Omar went out and got Ollie…now I’m hoping that any trade for Murton isnt precipitated by an injury, but regarless, he should be here!
One thing you have to say about Omar, his strategy is pretty consistent from year to year. The last couple of years, he was good at rounding up a ton of bullpen arms, throwing them on the wall and just see what sticks. This year it has been more for same for trying to fill some bench depth and RH bats.
But, there is some concerns on this bench and no one seems to be saying much about Easley or Chavez. Both are also coming off injuries but I assume they are ok. Endy really wasn’t good offensively last year before the injury, but I guess we’ll know by mid-May once the bench starts getting into games more. Guys like Tatis don’t wow you, but the fact that he is RH and plays a lot of positions certainly can’t hur this cause.
Right, is he going to be a worse hitter than Franco? And at least he can play the field.
Also, I think the whole 5th starter thing is a bit overblown. With the other 4 guys on this staff throwing like they are, we have plenty of room for experimenting. Pelfrey is not a lock, but I mean, who is and does it even matter?
It does still matter if you can get a league average pitcher there that is capable of putting together close to 200 innings.
But the point is, most teams would have a “league average pitcher” as their #3 starter (being #3 means being average, because he is in the middle of the 1 and 5)…..
How many teams out there have a league average pitcher capable of throwing 200 innings as their 5th starter???
Not many so If you have a chance to get one it can make you a great team. Vargas can get close, Marquis can get close. Elduque and Pelfrey can not. I am not saying you need Joe Blanton but look what the crappy Trax did for us in 06.
moze, we dont want to be like most teams, we want to be better so yea i think we need a guy like TRS86 is describing as our 5th starter.
but, keep in mind that yo uneed to combine Duque and Pelfrey into 1 pitcher. El Pelf.
That way, Duque can pitch 1/2 the year, and Pelfrey can pitch when Duque is out.
between them, they can make the 200 innings. Just not from 1 guy.
IMO, not a big deal if the 2 (or any 2) have to share a spot like that. I just don’t like to see the poo poo platter of trash of the moment making the starts.
They can’t both get to 100 innings from the 5 spot, its just not possible.
If the 5 spot gets 32 starts then the most those 2 could get would be 150 or so.
So you think Pelfrey and Duque combined will average merely 4 2/3s innings per start???
That might be a bit low….
Duque averaged exactly 6 innings per start in ‘07
Pelfrey averaged 5 1/3 innings per start in ‘07
So let’s say Pelf bumps up to 5 2/3 and Duque drops to 5 2/3…..
That puts them at 181 1/3 innings for 32 starts for the season…..
So I am not sure where you are getting your math…even if they average 5 1/3 between them that is 170 2/3 innings…
Think of the bullpen. We need to decrease the load that the bullpen has carried the last 2 years. Yeah, we get an upgrade from Santana but we can’t throw it away by completely falling on our face at the #5 slot.
We really should be able to get by between El Duque and Pelfrey. Pelfrey has to improve a little, and you figure El Duque will be more than serviceable when he is healthy.
But the #5 slot is still very important to this team. Not to mention, the Mets won’t ever be skipping the #5 slot because they will want to give Pedro an extra day off whenever they can.
for the final roster tweakings, i would see if gotay, smith, and show/sosa could pry Murton and Marquis away from the cubs.
If not, i would sign Marcus Giles and Claudio Vargas, let Giles take the place of that hump Fernando Tatis, and hope Gotay clears waivers and takes an assigment to AAA. Giles is just as versatile as Tatis and plays with 110% every time out. Plus, he’s still under 30 and can definitely hit. Again, is THIS MAN the Key to our season, the one that puts us way ahead of everyone else? Of course not, but I think Omar would be foolish to not inquire about all 4 of these players.
I don’t want Mr. Roids has been on the team. Tatis right now is better than him and has experience playing multiple positions. Also you are not getting Vargas and Marquis as they would be over kill.
Thank you Matt, I was listening to that and was so angered with their stupidity.
It’s great that everyone is so exercised over the fifth starter–it shows most everything else is in good shape. However, note that the last time our fifth starter had more than 16 starts in a season was in 2002 (22 starts by the immortal Jeff D’Amico). If we get 20 starts out of Pelfrey/Hernandez/Sosa/Figueroa et al., and they put up a .500 record, we’ll be fine.
What make you think they would put up a .500 record?
Again, it may not be the end all but it would put us over the top.
I agree 5th starter only gets half as many starts as other 4 so .500 is perfectly fine by me.
Look back and see what the record for our #5 was last season. We won’t get .500 from this group from the looks of it right now. Nor can we count on many innings.
We never get a .500 record from our fifth starter. Or at least we have not the past few seasons.
why do people just seem to think what we have right now will get us a 500 record? the 5th spot last year was AWFUL! didnt we only get something like 3 or 4 wins out of it all year? suddenly its going to give us 10 wins? im with trs86 on this one we need a guy that we can depend on every 5th day to at the very least not get his doors blown off.
Its all about innings from the 5th spot for me. Give me quality starts and right now Pelfrey can not. He can’t even give us innings unless you want his arm to fall off.
Last year’s 5th starters (everybody other than Glavine, Maine, Ollie, and Duque, who started 119 games):
Sosa 7-6 in 14 starts (as starter; 2-2 in relief)
Pelfrey 3-8 in 13 starts (3-1 in Sept. FWIW)
Brian Lawrence 1-2 in 6 starts
Pedro 3-1 in 5 starts
Vargas 0-1 in 2 starts
Humber 0-0 in 1 start
Williams 0-1 in 1 start
Park 0-1 in 1 start
Total: 14-20 in 43 starts. Make of it what you will.
Sosa was actually the 4th starter technically
He had the 5th most starts. Duque was 4th with 24 starts.
Um check out last year’s production out of the 5th spot….IT accounted for only 3 wins, all of which were Pelfrey’s, and all of which came in September…a slightly better 5th starter last year, and the Mets win the division in ‘07
That’s simply not accurate. They received 14 wins from their combined 5th starters. (If you want to call Sosa the 4th starter, then Duque is one of the No. 5’s, and he was 9-5 on his own (as opposed to Sosa’s 7-6 as a starter.)
Despite the gloom and doom, and think Pelfrey is a good bet for a .500 record, particularly with our lineup. He’ll have some stinkers, for sure, and he’ll throw some serviceable games. That’s about all anybody can expect from a fifth starter. How many teams have fifth starters better than that?
correction: *I* think
Has he improved from last season? You do know what his record was then. Many teams have a better 5th starter than Pelfrey at this point.
Has it dawned on anyone that Clark or Tatis would be the opening day LF?
They are facing a LHP and the reason those two are on the roster would be to fave LHP’s right?
And Pagan has scuffled the last two weeks, he cant be hitting over .270 since his hot start. I wouldnt be surprised to see him heading to AAA early on.
Plus he has options. Would not surprise me at all to see Clark and Tatis make the opening day roster. Tatis taking Gotay’s spot and Clark in LF.
agreed.
” Comment by Mister Koo
2008-03-27 09:16:23
They obsessed about his control and wanted him to use his 2 seamer to get ground balls and made him focus on that instead of being a power pitcher. Since then, his velocity dropped, the strikeout rate plummeted, and it’s been downhill ever since.”
That’s pretty much how i see it, he does not rear back anymore – he looks totally unconfortable and lost, i heard him say that this year he was just going back to doing what he did in college, he hasn’t.
He doesn’t belong on the roster. I know that for sure.
Please no Stokes in the bullpen, I went to two STgames this year and in both games the Mets pitchers were pitching a shut out and then Stokes comes in and he gives up 3 or 4 runs. Why is this guy even considered to be in the bullpen is beyond me? And the times I saw Register he looked good.
Having Stokes in the pen is a disaster waiting to happen, he will make Mota look like Papelbon. Lets put it this way, I witnessed first hand this scrub blow 4 of the 16 games that I attended last year.
The Rays bullpen ERA was 6.16 last year the WORST in the last 50 years (Their nickname was Murded Row). The 3 worst pitchers on the worst pitching team last year were Shawn Camp, Rudy Lugo and Brian Stokes. Stokes 7.07 ERA was worse than the 6.16 of the worse bullpn in the majors..HE SUCKS !!!!
how many games did Aaron Sele cost them last year? Stokes wont be in spots to blow games either, and if he is useless he will be DFA for someone else just as ineffective…
He is just there to wait for Sanchez if he is there at all.
why not register though? im confused myself on this one. register was a decent closer in the minors and had a better spring that stokes. its just a head scratcher to me.
It may still be Register, they hope to pass him through waivers and offer him back to the Rockies and then see what happens. The problem was that if Register came in for Sanchez and did well he would tie up the pen because he could not be sent down. So when Sanchez came back you either had to lose him or send who down? He’s good but he’s not worth locking up the pen all season.
I really don’t see the logic at all.
If the Rockies get a chance to take him back, there’s no way they pass. It’s $25k for a live arm, and no commitment to find roster space for him.
We want to get rid of the guy now because if he does well for us we might lose him when we no longer have room for him?
By that logic, the entire 25-man should be either guys with options or hopeless scrubs noone in their right mind would ever want to pick off waivers.
Dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb.
Dude, he would come in the 6th or 7th with a 4 run lead and blow it!!!
God forbid you have extra innings and he had to pitch, just stop the game and take the loss.
Comes in down by 3 in the eighth, ninth inning you’re now down by 6 or 7….HE SUCKS !!!
I just remembered, he blew a 6 RUN LEAD against the Blue Jays in the bottom of the ninth last year …6 RUNS !!!! No lead is safe !!!
Well, Omar and co. must see something in him to be willing to keep him on the roster. I assume he will be the last man standing, so will likely see very limited duty (maybe just mop up in a blowout?), and once Sanchez is back, he gets cut.
I don’t really see him as some kind of miracle man taking on significant innings this year.
It shouldn’t even be at this point, give it to Smith, and just limit the number of Lefty’s he faces.
It is virtually asured that when Stokes comes into a game, he will give up runs…it’s a miracle when he doesn’t
As funny as this is, it’s also true, “he will make Mota look like Papelbon” – Hilarious!! lmao
Can I ask what the hell I said that got me banned? I mean, damn if you were gonna ban me Matt I figured it would have been when I said something that could been see as offensive. I point out that you posted Delgado’s line incorrectly yesterday and you banish me? Nice….
There is an email section right up there in the left hand side. If you wish to address Matt is it that important that you call him out again? He does not even get to read most of the blogs. Or I guess you want us to know that Matt is vindictive?
Anyway, has anyone read the SI Baseball Preview yet? They have us penciled in for 91 wins(and winning the division by 5 games). They predict the Yankees with the best record in baseball with 94(ridiculous)…
They also say there wont be any ‘Professor Reyes’ this year at Shea, which I’m sure well all miss. Also no more 10,000 handshakes, which I think I had heard already….
The part I cant believe they published is that it says the Mets have been toying with the idea of having 6 starters. Uh, what? Have they watched the team? We dont even know who the 5th SP is, forget about 6.
no way they have a formal 6 man rotation.
What they could have though is an occasional guest appearance if Pedro needs an extra day.
Of course, that only works if the guest starter is coming out of the pen (Sosa, Figgy), otherwise you have a nightmare of moves.
I guess that would be a novel use of the long man. Certainly would keep him stretched out!
If you pick up Vargas then between him and Elduque you just about could do a 6 man with Elduque as the guest appearance man.
If they have to do that much manipulating of the rotation for Pedro then maybe he should go down and do a rehab program to get in shape for a 5 man rotation…
They dont have the personel to do that. Boston was fortunate to have Wakefield and could manipulate him around Pedro’s needs. The Mets just dont have that unless Sosa and Figueroa are going to share starting and long man work, and that would leave the pen shorthanded, and could be a disaster anyway…
bouncing Pelfrey up and down from AAA to be the 6th starter would be a terrible idea as well.
what a bunch of clowns
Matt, when you say that the fifth starter looks like either Pelfrey or Figueroa, does that mean that you think the pitcher who is not picked goes to Triple A or the pen?
Pelfrey sux
The only reason Tatis makes this team is because his passport says from the DR. Lets not kid ourselves here, he hasn’t beaten anybody out in his 2 weeks…no other team wants him..he’s finished…the only place for him is the hispanic retirement home at Shea.