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While standing on top of the plate yesterday, Phillies 2B Chase Utley pulled off a rare hit-by-pitch hat trick. 
In a chat for ESPN.com today, Utley was asked by a reader, “Hugging the plate a little too close yesterday don’t ya think?!”
Utley responded:
“As far as hugging the plate, yes, and that’s not gonna change!”
…that was ridiculous…i mean, honestly, he made the umpire look like an idiot by not attempting to move out of the way…he knew he was over matched by two left-handed pitchers so he pulls a Roger Dorn…i say bush league…
…added to by Matthew Cerrone…
During an appearance today on ESPN Radio’s Mike and Mike in the Morning, Utley said he could have avoided being hit by at least one of those pitches.
…in other words, the umpire needs to take note of how ridiculously close utley stands to the plate…if you notice, in the aerial shot, his front elbow actually hangs over the plate at times…which is not allowed…and if the umpire is not going to enforce this, well, then the pitcher should, by drilling him over and over again – like Pedro Martinez used to do with Derek Jeter and Alfonso Soriano…
…i hate suggesting these sort of tactics, but if the umpire will not do his job, allowing the pitcher a fair opportunity to throw a strike, then the pitcher and catcher must take matters in to their own hands…this is not about macho or ego, it’s about owning the paint on the plate…it’s age old…
By the way, in the interview, Utley also referred to Oliver Perez as Odalis Perez.
…thanks to Jason B for the heads up on utley’s comments…
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I say there’s a guy that wants to win! I wish Reyes took the get on base at all costs approach.
charlie…i think the point here is that you are supposed to make an effort to get out of the way of a pitch..maybe you turn the wrong way, maybe its too fast..whatever..but he basically turned INTO the pitches or put his elbow out…
I agree, that to me is bushleague…
Reyes should take the get on base at all costs approach, but it should be more of TAKING PITCHES and bunting here and there and keeping the ball on the ground.. ..etc
Utley also made a questionable move on the bases, I’m not taking blame off delgado, but come on, if you watch, he runs out to the right as he is going to 2nd, knowing it would make the throw more difficult and more difficult to catch for Reyes…..
BUSH LEAGUE
that last one, he actually took a step towards the ball. Then he gets hit by the throw going to second, unreal.
i just wanna see willie go out and say to the ump “do me a favor, watch him on inside pitches” ….maybe not freak out..but kinda ask the ump
Maybe the ump just thinks its easier because noone notices or cause Cholly will argue more
i mean, do you guys watch baseball? when was the last time an ump refused to offer first base to a guy that leaned into a pitch? be realistic.
actually, it happens all the time. I’ve seen it happen to Jason Giambi before, and it’s happened in Mets games last season.
not all the time.
not all the time, but it happens. You’d think 3 in one game would give the ump a little pause.
i guess. look, my point was simple: at least he goes up there with the expressed thought, “i am going to do whatever i need to do to get on base.” he’s a gamer. is it lame to lean into pitches, i guess. but, do you know how many runs he either drove in or scored yesterday? he scored 1, drove in 1, and allowd 1 to score when he got in the way of delgado’s throw to second. that’s 3. how many runs did the mets score yesterday? 2.
personally, my problem’s more with the ump than utley. As a hitter, you take what you get. But if you’re cheating, the ump should call you on it. Baseball’s history is freckled with tricks & so-called-gamesmanship..not a bad thing. But it’s up to the ump to manage that so both sides get the same deal. You get hit 3 times in one game and something’s up.
do you think i don’t understand? please don’t insult me.
i was making a point. utley was on the FAN this morning. he said he wants to get on base any way possible. he has the drive to do so. if that means “bush league” then, fine.
you know what’s bush league? our team right now.
dude, calm down with the anger…i wasn’t trying to insult you
wow….its called an opinion
ya, but the only thing bush league is the mets play. but it is a long season and things will level out. utley plays hard and if he pushed the limit then randolph should be out there saying something (especially after he got hit the second time). utley is to the phils what wright is to the mets. i’ll take him on my team any day of the week. when is castillo’s contract up again? (sigh)
mine was also an opinion, one you jumped all over.
mrose, dude, i’m sorry. i did have too much anger in my post. i’m just so damn frustrated. my bad, man.
you really need to calm down if you consider mine jumping all over..
I simply stated my opinion without really anything directly AT you…
I started with this line “charlie…i think the point here is that you are supposed to make an effort to get out of the way of a pitch.”
That was the only point that had ANYTHINg to do with you…
and that was me replying to your comment with my opinion…as this site works…i’d be amazed if anyone else here considers my comment to your original one “jumping all over it”
you need to relax…i know were all not happy w/ the mets..but seriously bro…its just a place to comment, were all on edge enough, no need to make it worse
i just saw your apology….all good bro…
ignore my last post then too…
thanks, man.
back to the main point: let’s go mets!
yes sir…
Anyone wanna take my Friday night tix off my hands for face value??? $27 a pop 2 of em…. matt.rose1120 [at] gmail.com
Utley’s path into 2nd base on that play was brilliant. It is a legal play, and he did nothing wrong. He’s a smart player, but needs to be drilled in the ribs. If we’re going to hit him, we better get our money’s worth.
yes!!!
ugh I hate the Phillies more and more with each passing day.
You should have been in my house last night when my philly fan wife shot her mouth off. I wouldn’t be surprised if she was chating with a lawyer today.
There’s only one remedy to this situation…Unfortunately it seems the one guy who would do it is rehabbing his hammy.
That is fine, and he should try and crowd the plate but pitchers should put a few in his ear hole and then see if he has the same stance. Problem is a pitcher get’s tossed if he tries to claim the plate.
Pelfrey throws hard enough… if he wants to make a statement and claim a spot in hearts and minds of not only Met fans but his teammates as well, Big Pelf ought to groove one right towards the little tuft of hair under Utley’s lip.
yeah! Hit him in the soul patch! At least it’s not red..
Paging Bob Gibson..Mister Bob Gibson…
The Phillies are our DADDYS !!!!!
Bro…take yourself back to 1990-1998 when you (admittedly) stopped being a mets fan. Whether they have our number right now or not, you really seem to take pleasure in saying that!
Fairweather fan
i wouldn’t call it bush league.. thats just a player who gets on base at any costs and some mets should follow.
Wasn’t it rumored that the Phillthies wanted to “b-r-a-w-l” with the Mets this year? Isn’t this a great way to suck the Mets into that?
Utley is a gamer . . . some of our guys might want to pay attention to his approach to the game
Don’t say anything bad about Willie guys, Matt might turn off the comments again.
Yea, i’m sure after comment number 800, matt decided enough was enough. Grow up or better yet, go to class, it’s a Wednesday!
BTW, Brian Bannister notches another win. Holds the Yankee juggernaut to 2 runs.
A. Burgos, c’mon down!
Shhh don’t make fun of the Yankees, you might get Matt mad. I mean check out the big Yankee hat logo on the right – I know Cerrone wants ad dollars, but you’d think he’d have some self respect?
holy crap dude…
you do realize THIS is his job???? right? he gets PAID for ads thats his paychecks
If you had to wear a Yankees hat for your job, would you? I wasn’t even being totally serious, get your panties out of a bunch you loser.
Someone didn’t have his pop-tart today.
yeah man seriously. matt does a great job. shut your mouth.
my ad has a mets hat in it too..
hah true
the phils are getting way to much respect here. they were a slightly above .500 team all year in 2007 until september then got hot. yes, they crushed the mets, but so did the marlins and nats. then the phils were swept in the playoffs.
the mets played terrible most of 2007. they’ve had a tough start, but again the phils are a .500 team.
So what does all that say about our guys???
they caught lightning in a bottle in 2006. in 2007 and 2008 they are one of 3 teams that can win the nl east and one of 11 teams that can go to the world series for the nl. parity.
a .500 team – suuurre they are.
What’s that make the Mets? A .300 team then?
taking things a bit literally, huh
The potential for despair that this season holds could make one long for the embarrassing days of yore when the Village Idiot manned the dugout and Mikey P did a neat impersonation of a statue planted by first base
What truly angered me was Utley’s third plate appearance. I’m not bothered by guys who freeze and don’t try and get out of the way (heck, that gave us a few extra runs when Ron Hunt was on the team…), but this was different. The first two plunkings, he tried and it clipped his uniform and he just froze, respectively. When I replayed the tape (I tape almost all the games…call me weird, but there ya go) on slow-mo, in that one PA vs. Scott Schoeneweis, though…okay, that’s called cheating. Utley leaned into the path of the pitch and just kinda turn around when he was hit. You CANNOT do that. My guess is the only reason the ump awarded him first was because he’d gotten plunked twice.
Thing is, the ball was over the plate and he stepped on the plate to get hit with it.
Correct. He dove into the path of the ball. And, JMHO, but…for all the people saying “oh, Utley is just playing with a lot of fire and he would’ve fit right in on the ‘86 Mets,” in the 1980’s, umpires were FAR, FAR less forgiving regarding HBP’s. If you didn’t make an effort to get out of the way, sometimes you’d be asked to take another pitch (didn’t Vince Coleman or Lonnie Smith get hit twice in the same plate-appearance because of this?). And if you dove into the pitch, sometimes the umps would call a strike (this was done against Bobby Grich once in a while), to say nothing of not sending you down to first base. Oh, and if your uniform got buzzed but you weren’t? Well, that wasn’t always a HBP (listen to Keith and Ron…they’ll bring this up sometimes).
So to recap, assuming this is Bizarro World and the 2008 Phillies are playing in 1986…
-First HBP may not even be called a HBP because it just clipped his uniform.
-Second HBP probably would’ve been called as such.
-Third HBP would be a do-over of the previous pitch.
And we’re also ignoring the fact that beanball wars happened in the 1980’s without the whole “warning” thing. If Utley had indeed dove into a pitch in the 1980’s, the opposing team’s unofficial penalty for that was generally either throwing a brushback pitch (in closer games) or (in situations of decent leads or indecent deficits) drilling him in the ribs. HARD (logic being: “You want to get hit? Okay, I’ll hit you!”). Not exactly productive and now it’s the opposing pitcher who’s playing with a lot of fire…
Here’s an idea: Beat the Phillies. Then Utley can get hit all he wants and use October to recover.
I would take Utley on this team any day. Forget bush league. Play to win. Like the 1986 Mets. You think they cared about being “fair” or “bush league”? This team needs some more attitude, at least on the offensive side.
Apparently we have to wait for them to get bored of being nice.
milledge filled that role plus #2 hitter + passion.
…and why is it that it seems no 2 hitters on the Mets are hot at the same time?
I love this team but they are soft like baby poop
bring back bobby V
bring back bobby V
Megga dittos
It’s not bush-league for Utley to turn into pitches. It may be a rule violation, but if umps aren’t going to call it, then he’s just trying to win. Obviously, he’s taking a risk that he’ll get hit and break something (as, in fact, happened last year, and he was lucky his injury wasn’t more seriously). I happen to think umps need to do a better job of calling hitters for this, but until they do, it’s not “bush league” for him to do it. Everyone does it. Bush league is doing something that, while legal, it’s accepted not to do b/c it screws with the game (example: A-Rod yelling “I got it” while running from 2nd to 3rd on a popup).
Analogous example: Giants fans may remember that in the NFL championship against the Packers, Kareem Mackenzie basically carried Ahmad Bradshaw into the end zone. This is 100% illegal and a 10 yard penalty for “helping the runner.” But I’ve never, ever seen it called, and linemen push runners ahead all the time. If a rule has effectively been written out of the book by unenforcement, why should players take advantage?
bring back Art Howe. At least his teams BATTLED
Battled?
After each loss Art told the media that his team Battled. I.E.: “At the end of an 8-1 loss, when the Mets scored one run in the ninth inning, Art Howe would say they battled.” –NYTIMES
you’re kidding?
battled towards third and fourth place
Sarcasm
It seems to me that with the relatively recent propensity of umpires to issue warnings, penalties, etc for throwing at a guy (which IMO is part of the game), if one guy gets 3 three times in one game, and the pitchers aren’t even warned, it seems pretty clear that its the batter who’s creating the problem, no?
I don’t fault Utley for crowding the plate. It’s his right to do it and risk the call going the other way. I’d rather our players take that risk then swing at clearly ball first pitches or even worse, not swing at strikes!
why not give the call to utley when you know you’re not gonna hear a peep from the other bench?
whatever, not getting worked up over this.
Nice, right on point!
Utley is trying to win . . . maybe Kooz could explain to some of our pitchers how to drill a batter on the hands – Utley and others may re-think leaning in when its his wrists and hands being targeted
I seem to recall some smack talk before the season started inplying there would be some on-field brawls between these teams … anyone predict that tonight?
Hoping … if the mets get behind early and the frustration mounts, maybe Maine gets some retribution on Utley and the fireworks begin. We need something to spark this team!
Actually, I took a lot away from Perez’s performance in that he _did_ hit Utley a second time. It means he didn’t give in, and continued to pitch inside.
GARY CARTER!! He should manage the Mets NOW! FIRE WILLIE before it gets out of hand.After hom many losses how many times to we need to hear is sorry lame excuses? “Its early, we play them 17 more times”. Yes thats 17 more lost games. Willie is NOT motivating this team , its simple. You would think that after that game 7 loss in 2006 and the end of 2007 the team would be all fired up and ready to go? So Willie is not doing or saying what the team needs. FIRE HIM, before its to late.
Considering to the best of my knowledge, Larry has never been knocked down by a Mets pitcher. It doesn’t look good that we’ll start knocking down these guys that stand on the plate and kill us.
If the Umps aren’t going to call him on it and the pitchers aren’t going to put a hard one in his ribs, why shouldn’t he lean in?
Let’s re-sign Shawn Estes for one game to throw behind him. Maybe he’ll get the message then!
This team/organization hasn’t shown any fight for years. Why would they now?
Last I checked he did get some hard ones. 3, if I stand corrected. Thats the whole point. It was clear he was intruding on the plate beyond accepted measures and he DID get drilled for it and the ump awarded him a base each time when for at least 2 he should not have.
And his base running was busch league. I wish Delgado would have thrown it with a little more juice at the back of his head…of course, everyone is hating on Delgado when Reyes didn’t give him a good angle to begin with.
If Todd Hundley was behind the plate, he would have decked Utley. Chase deez nutz!
Well, if you can’t beat ‘em, punch ‘em from behind, right?
No, that’s not the philosphy of the ‘86 team. You wanna beat ‘em on and off the field. Get it??? Thanks for reading…next caller…
We got Pelfrey pitching today who is probably the biggest wuss in the Met’s system. No better way to get him to start snapping out of it by giving Utley some chin music.
With Pelfrey’s command, if he tried to throw one up and in, it would sail over Utley’s head onto the foul ball netting behind home plate.
IIRC, he said after that Atlanta game last year that hitting Francouer was intentional. And you know what? Good for him! He needs a confidence builder and if it takes drilling guys to build his confidence, then by all means do it, modern umpires be darned. Sonny Siebert was similar during his rookie season. Then he found out he could hit batters and that it gave him confidence. And he became a subsequently very solid (if not great) starter for the Indians and Red Sox.
I went down the 40-man roster and put the players into 3 categories, like, dislike and indifferent. I wanted to know if others felt this is the general consensus.
LIKE:
Pedro Feliciano
Orlando Hernandez
John Maine
Pedro Martinez
Mike Pelfrey
Oliver Perez
Duaner Sanchez
Johan Santana
Joe Smith
Ramon Castro
Damion Easley
Jose Reyes
David Wright
Moises Alou
Marlon Anderson
Endy Chavez
Angel Pagan
DISLIKE:
Scott Schoeneweis
Ambiorix Burgos
Jorge Sosa
Jason Vargas
Billy Wagner
Luis Castillo
Carlos Delgado
INDIFFERENT:
Adam Bostick
Willie Collazo
Nelson Figueroa
Aaron Heilman
Ruddy Lugo
Carlos Muniz
Matt Wise
Raul Casanova
Brian Schneider
Anderson Hernandez
Ryan Church
Brady Clark
Also, if they were still on the team I would put Gotay and Milledge into the like category, LoDuca into indifferent and Gomez into the dislike(I always felt the bat sniffer was overrated, but at least we got Santana for him and some nobodies)
I’d swap Wagner and Schneider and move Church into like. Church has done nothing wrong offensively or defensively. As for Sandman, as much as no one likes to admit it, Wagner is still one of the best closers in baseball right now. Stop hating. And I feel like we’re gonna see a lot of home runs against us with Schneider behind the plate because he calls an aggressive game, sometimes too aggressive and it results in silly pitches in pitchers counts.
I am liking Heilman so much today…
i meant I am NOT liking heilman so much today …ha ha ha ha
whats to like about pedro
sanchez
alou
duque..
thier games or how the rest up…?
Sure they’re all on the DL, but when they are not I never feel uneasy with these players out there.
dude they’re never not on the dl……… and never around long enough to help….
wagner is not good in big spots……..
or how THEY rest up………. sorry…
To anyone complaining about Utley being bush-league, I wish someone in the Mets lineup was bush-league, maybe we’d win some big games for once.
I’m pretty sure Utley will stop “hugging the plate” if he gets hit in the head with a 90 mph fastball. Just putting that out there.
Mets would never do that, that would put them in danger of “showing up” the other team
I’m fairly sure that they’re not going head-hunting. The first step should be complaining to the umpire and then the league. Utley’s not the only guy in the game who does this by any means, and he’s not the worst either. Look at some of the other guys who crowd the plate & wear body armor as well (such as Gary Sheffield, if I’m remembering correctly). But that doesn’t change the fact that the rules say that he has to make an attempt to get out of the way of the pitch. I’m a Phillies fan, but I’d prefer to see the teams playing by the rules (and the umpires enforcing them, for that matter).
Also, Utley did get his hand broken when he was hit by a pitch last year & he missed a few weeks. Obviously he’s not going to dive out of the box any time the pitch comes near him, but you’d figure that he would be a bit more careful with regards to allowing himself to get hit. Trying to get on base today isn’t worth missing the next few weeks.
If Pedro was still around, and this team and its manager had any guts, Utley would have himself a concussion by the end of tonight’s game. He single-handedly cost the Mets the game with his questionable behavior. Luckily for Phillie fans, the Mets have had a bend-over-for-more mentality these past few years.
Utley constantly does this as I have watched many a Phillies game. The fact that no manager has argued it is utterly ridiculous.
pedro has been a bust….
duque has let the team down at the critical point 2 years running…
duaners a joke…….
and alou never should have been signed as an everyday option….. ya wanna talk off the bench …fine….. but to count on any of these guys is russian roulette…
relax. pelfrey and figueroa are pitching the next two games.
Fireworks Night at Shea!
big pelf = the stopper! tonights game should wrap up promptly at 2am
With all the money El Duque has made in baseball you might surmise that he could afford to have that bunion surgically removed during the off season. Or better yet, maybe the Mets brass, since they are paying him, could force him to have it removed so he can pitch correctly.
with all the money el duque made in baseball,you might sumise , he’d retire……
Is Woody Williams still available?….the Mets love crusty old veterans who are past their prime.
williams ??? no way man …. he wont fit…. he’ll fit age wise but he might throw 185 innings and start 25 games………..
no good…. we need more disabled list potential……..
Is this a sarcastic way of saying you actually WANT Woody Williams on this team? The same Woody Williams who started last season with something like an 0-8 record for the Astros? THAT Woody Williams?
I am not going to say utley doesn’t lean out over the plate, but he is not a one-trick pony. He got hit A LOT last season, but he just takes it in stride and knows what he is doing up there.
Best part is he doesn’t wear one of those robocop elbow gaurds that you see on so many players. He takes the hit. But he can also make you pay with his bat, which he did in his last AB.
He actually lead the majorslast year in getting hit…i believe. When he makes it as obvious as he does, shouldn’t any competent manager go out there and argue??
they could, but I don’t know what it would do exactly. Can anyone produce the actual rule?
Utley Clearly stepped into the 3rd one, but Umps rarely call that. The problem is he was barely grazed by all 3 pitches. There is 1 clear way to get his ass off the plate, and that’s 90+ in the ribs. No glancing blow, 90+ square in the ribs. Then, when Howard gets up, 90+ in the ribs again. It’s baseball. Utley was out over a month last year because he took one off the hands. Put him on the DL for this stuff and he’ll back off.
Especially when he says he’s not going to stop hanging over the plate.
Missed a month and more than likely took him out of the running for MVP, but it isn’t going to change the way he plays the game. I didn’t see all the hits, but I was under the impression that the 3rd was the only one that caught anything other than jersey. Not sure if he stepped into it.
I can’t give you a stat on the speed of the pitches that hit him either. he just went to the Craig Biggio school of hitting, only Utley is better.
Guys, it’s Willie’s JOB to point out to the umpires that Chase is hanging over the plate. That’s why he is getting paid. You can’t sit back and wait for the umpire to call it, or for Chase Utley to feel guilty about “cheating”. You have to put the pressure on the umps. While I’m not crazy about them, La Russa or Piniella would have been all over the umps on this from the get go. This is one of Willie’s greatest flaws – that he won’t argue bad calls, even when its borderline, to at least get into the umps’ heads a bit and hopefully get a call in the Mets’ favor in the future. All the great coaches and managers in sports do this. And it’s a flaw that trickles down to the rest of the team – a calmness bordering on nonchalance that can be a strength when things are going well but can also lead to complacency and a lack of urgency when things go bad.
I was screaming at the TV after the 3rd one. You could sense the game going the other way, and that’s the time for Willie to get his lazy but off the bench, go out and SCREAM at the umpire until he gets himself tossed from the game. There was a huge vacuum of lost energy at that point and Wee Willie had the chance to put some life back into it. He would have had 55 thousand people going nuts, but he chose to sit on his hands. Not a good choice Willie.
BTW, why does he let his relievers “Show him something” early in the season, but he pull Perez from the game when he walks 2 guys with 2 out and a 2 run lead. Let the guy work thru it and get the confidence.
I get the feeling more and more that Willie doesn’t like young players some how – can’t treat them like everyone else, need to make ‘em earn it, need to understand how to be a winner, etc. blah blah blah. Reyes can’t be enthusiastic, Milledge gets run out of town. OP is young, he get’s thrown under the bus for yesterday when he clearly didn’t have his best stuff but battled to get the outs he really needed.
Pelfrey could make a real statement tonight by giving Utley a close shave. This team needs a fire lit inderneath them, and knocking Utley down might provide the match.
I doubt Pelfrey will be the one to do it. If anyone it is going to be one of your bullpen arms.
but they will probably miss the target knowing them.
Maybe thats what we need. (somebody to incite a brawl) then maybe these guys will stop acting like losers.
Agree. Don’t wait for the bullpen to do it – that will probably mean runners are already on base. Time to do it and make the statement is first inning first pitch. You don’t even necessarily need to hit him – just dust him under the chin. The message will be unmistakable. This is where the manager or “the veterans” need to speak with Pelfry before the game and tell him to do it.
God forbid Willie get tossed from a game and show any emotion!! That might actually light a fire under the team!!!
Its not enough to hit these guys. They wear so much armor that it doesn’t even matter. The sad reality is that you have to throw for their head because it is the only way to send a message. What good does it do hit the guy in the forearm if he is wearing chain metal to protect himself anyway. A nice shot to the chin took care of Dickie Thon, it will work wonders on Utley too.
Your comment is moronic. Not the way to represent real fans.
Take it from HBK, Big Pelf…give Chase some Sweet chin music tonight… Ill be there to watch your back just incase :)
I had a no-nonsense HS baseball coach who used to tell us “PUT ONE IN HIS EAR!!!”. Now I dont condone head-hunting, the point is somebody should throw high and tight and get him to back off the plate. The problem is the only pitcher we have with the cajones to do so; is on the DL.(pedro)
I was at the game yesterday and of course saw the replays on TV. The rule book is very clear on HBP and running in the baseline. Utley did not make any attempt to get out of the way from being HBP – that is a rules violation BUT he will do it because umps rarely call it; so I don’t blame Utley one bit, he’s just taking advantage of the lame state of umpiring. That being the case it is up to the pitchers to take care of it.
On running to second when he got hit by Delgado’s throw – yes he ran wide to block Delagdo’s vision/throw – and perfectly legal since he was in the basepath – i.e. 3 feet either side. It was up to Delgado to throw wider – if you look at the replay closely Reyes is moving his glove back to his right side which likely means the throw was tailing back into the runner – not out wide or higher where it should have been.
the umpiring gets worse and worse every year, pitches down the middle called balls, pitches 6 ” off the plate called strikes, Homeruns that bounce off a railing 30Ft into the air called Doubles, Trapped balls called outs, the list goes on and on, and MLB isnt doing anything about it, so why should Leaning into pitches eb any different? There is a reason batters wear the Aromor on their Elbows, because they have no problem leaning into a pitch to get on base. If everyone else gets away with it, why not the Mets? Reyes leans into 1 pitch a game or so, then steals second, theres alot of potential runs right there.
Its time to stop trying to be classy and proper, we live in NY, this is a NY team, there is very little that is classy about Flushing Queens, why do we haev to pretend to be classy, lets just win!