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The Mets lost to the Brewers by the score of 5 to 3 in Shea Stadium this afternoon.
For a recap and boxscore, go to SNY.
…for the second-straight start, Johan Santana did not have his best stuff…yet, he managed to keep the game in reach, until allowing a two-run home run to Gabe Kalper in the seventh inning…he was running out of steam…but, he’s their ace…if you can’t leave him in and hope he muscles through, then who can you leave in…i moan that pitchers do not go long enough, then when they do, but fail, i wish he had been pulled…ugh…the long-ball is the bane of santana, and we knew that coming in to the season…santana was booed a bit while walking off the field…if you boo your ace, what else is left…
…i like Angel Pagan…who doesn’t, at this point…he hit leadoff today, in place of the injured Jose Reyes…he got on in the first, advanced on grounder, tagged on a fly ball and scored…pagan, get ‘em over, get ‘em in…
…i liked the bright-blue pullovers the team wore in the dugouts today…pinstripes, blue hats, blue pull-overs…nice touch…
…David Wright struggled today on defense, making a throwing error (from which a run eventually scored), and a fielding error…he’s been a bit off the last few days, despite looking quite good through much of the spring…of course, wright made up for it later with a solo home run…
…hat’s off to Carlos Muniz, who pitched two scoreless innings in relief, while allowing one hit and striking out one batter…
…impressive inning by Eric Gagne, who manages to throw pretty well, despite wearing Prince Fielder’s pants…
Again, Wright for 1st baseman next year. The Tigers are doing it with Cabrera for similar reasons (Cabrera doesn’t have much mobility, Wright doesn’t have much of an arm). Maybe Dan Murphy can pan out by opening day 09, and we can spend all our freed up cash on re-signing Perez, and possibly picking up Sabathia.
You’re an idiot.
I thought the name calling was supposed to stop today?
First off, why? If you can’t back up your argument for why I’m an idiot, and you just leave it at that, I simply can’t take you seriously.
Secondly, I consider anybody who resorts to name-calling as opposed to intelligent, fact-based debate unintelligent. That being said, you sir are unintelligent. However, I’d love for you to prove me wrong, which for whatever reason, I doubt you’re capable of doing.
I think that IF we lose out on Tex in the off-season, you need to seriously look at this. His glove is superb…his arm, not so much
Thank you, Roach, for an intelligent, civilized response.
Texeria is certainly the guy the Mets should look to get this offseason, but at the same time I’m not too comfortable with Wright at 3rd. His defense has not improved since he came up. If anything, his throws have gotten worse. I’ve seen Delgado come off the bag and make that swipe tag about 4 times this season alone due to poor throws by Wright. Not to mention balls in the term that Delgado has luckily been able to scoop. We have a less experienced first baseman over there, and Wright has about 7 or 8 errors this season.
Second might be ideal, since he has GREAT range, a great glove, and the throw is much shorter to first. But we’ve got Castillo there for the next three years.
From what I’ve seen of Murphy, he’s a promising prospect, and he’s on fire right now in the minors. I wouldn’t have any qualms at all with letting him take over at 3rd next year if he’s ready, likewise with F-Mart in left. Then spend the gigantic piles of cash we save from these in-house solutions on putting together the best pitching staff in baseball.
The Mets won’t get Tiexeira. The Yanks have a need at first base, and there is no way that they are going to allow themselves to be beaten in a bidding war for a player they need by their biggest rivals not located in Massachusetts.
Secondly, what indication have any of us been given that the Mets are going to be remotely interested in signing Tex?
And finally, your plan for Wright is treating him like he is a veteran third baseman who has been in the league for 10 years and is losing his defensive skills. In Wright’s case, he is still a baby and is coming off of a Gold Glove award to boot. It is way too early to start kicking around the idea of a position change at this juncture. He isn’t that bad. And, you heard it here first, he is NOT going to be interested in making that change.
I think it’s an assumption based on the fact that
A) Delgado is gone after this year
B) We’re going to need a capable bat at 1st, Texeira is one of the only high-profile free agents at first, and we have the money to pay him
As for Wright not wanting to make the change, what exactly are you basing this on? He’s said previously he’d move for A-Rod (which, I understand, is a different situation). But he’s not a diva like Jeter, requiring that he stay at his position no matter what. I think he knows as well as anybody that his ARM (please stop citing the gold glove. i know, i agree) isn’t up to par, and that it costs us sometimes.
I agree about moving Wright to first. I think he could be an excellent firstbaseman. He has a great ability to snag hard hit balls and he has decent range.
He’s a little shorter than you’d like a firstbaseman but he can jump and get high balls.
He’s made a lot of terrific play’s at third though.
He just has some strange problem of throwing
to first when he has a lot of time. I can’t see wasting
a gold glove talent on first. David just has to get better making the throw, that’s his only problem.
He rushes throws sometimes…..that’s all. His glove is one of the best around and he still is relatively new to the league. He can only get better.
DAVID WRIGHT IS OUR THIRD BASEMAN.
Period. It won’t change and I don’t think he ever really considered it, not happily anyway, not even for ARod.
You’re not an idiot, you’re right. If Teixiera can’t be signed, Wright should be moved to 1st.
If we couldn’t sign Tex and moved Wright to 1st I don’t think we have a capable fill-in from Triple-A ready to play a full season in the bigs at 3rd. Not many free agent 3rd baseman either. Only one I see is Joe Crede.
I guess wright getting the gold glove last year means nothing now. everyone has bad games, you people always want to jump off a building when the mets lose a game. they cant win every game, and not every player has their best game. Relax and enjoy the season. we are only 10 games in.
It’s not that it doesn’t mean nothing. His glove is great, and his range is awesome. But if you don’t have the arm, what’s the point? Magnificent plays are meaningless if you can’t capitalize on them by actually throwing the guy out. He could play 3rd without a glove all season for all I care, and make barehanded snags between his legs, but if he can’t throw the guy running to first out, it’s all superficial.
That’s why I see 2nd or 1st as legit and beneficial options. Reduced throwing chances, and throwing distances, while allowing his range and glove to still be a factor. This isn’t about this year, his throws have always been pretty hit-or-miss, and that whole double-tap thing he does with his glove is still there and creating a lot of problems.
The guy has made 3 errors in 10 games, including a ground ball through the legs, which never happens. Yes Delgado has saved him on some throws, but guess what? That’s what major league 1st basemen are supposed to do.. They do it all the time.
As for Castillo at 2nd for the next four years, if May comes along and Castillo is still incapable of hitting the ball out of the infield as he manages to increase his batting average by a whopping 40 points to pull it above .200, the Metsblog readers would be wise to declare him a sunk cost and start to scream for Dan Murphy and Jose Coronado in Binghamton. They are pulling averages of .450 between them, with Murphy batting close to .500.
I personally don’t care if you put Murphy or Coronado on 3rd and move Wright to 2nd or keep Wright on 3rd (I would keep Wright on 3rd. His error totals of 19 and 21 the last two years, while high, are not off-the-charts, and fans forget–when they let their emotions get the better of them–that he has already made several magnificent plays. I would not waste his skill at 1st.) But the sooner Mets brass understand that Castillo was/is a waste of money, the better for the team.
Shop him around; eat half of his contract if you need to and/or throw him in as a necessary condition of making an otherwise unfavorable trade. Either that or buy him the **** out.
Boy was that contract a mistake. I hope the fact that he’s playing second won’t factor in to any moves/signings for a real second baseman in the future.
i agree that Castillo is a bad contract and i knew that when we signed him. I think we should put Pagan in the 2nd spot and drop Castillo to 7th or 8th. He is a rally killer
I agree. Castillo for four years was a horrible contract. I think we should try Pagan for second base. and his spot in the line up. Castillo can be our back up 2nd basemen.
The Tigers are playing Cabrera at 3B this year. Guillen’s at 1B, having moved over from SS. Cabrera’s been playing 1B and DH-ing this year up until today when he played 1B due to leg soreness…….
Kind of like the idea of Wright at 2B. Intriguing idea. Probably won’t happen but intriguing. Sandberg made the move from 3B to 2B….
Of course Wright’s throwing problems could potentially be remedied. I think I recall hearing Graig Nettles had throwing issues when he first came up and he turned out mighty fine (or was it that he had fielding issues when he first came up?).
The thing is, they could have easily just had Inge play 1st once Guillen went down. I think they see a future at 1st for Cabrera, because he is very lackadaisical over at 3rd, and starting to put on some pounds. That’s why he’s starting there now. I’m just saying, it wouldn’t be the craziest thing in the world if Wright moved to first because of his defense.
And in terms of throwing problems, Wright didn’t just come up. He’s been bouncing throws and airmailing throws to the right of first base since I can remember, and he’s started this season with the same exact problems.
Obviously I agree 2nd is intriguing as well, considering we could still get production from that gold glove of his and his great range. As I said, the throws are what hurt him.
Agreed. Cabrera’s future will be at 1B or DH.
I think it took Nettles several years as a major leaguer to overcome his defensive problems when he came up (pre-Yankees days) so there could be hope for Wright’s throwing issues.
Bud, moving Wright’s position isn’t worth the trouble. First could actually cause more errors. It would be beneficial just to get a first baseman.
And don’t go crazy about Cabrera at first. They didn’t want Sheffield to get tired, INGE IS THEIR CENTERFIELDER and they probably didn’t want to put some other guy at first when they could use someone with solid defense at third.
Wright is our third baseman. He is a gold glove third baseman. Why should he change if he’s really good at that position? He always spends time trying to perfect his fielding. He wants to be an all around player. Wright does have an arm, he just need to work on his accuracy. You can’t compare him to Miguel Cabrera because Cabrera is just lazy. I won’t call you an idiot but it’s not a smart idea. Even if we lose out on Tex, we could look at other options but not this.
There are so many things wrong with that I cannot even begin.
David Wright is a very good fielder at the third base position. There is literally no reason to move him over. Yes, his arm lacks the accuracy to be an amazing, Omar Vizquel-at-3B, all around great fielder, but what makes you think that he’ll be a better first baseman? There would be so many skills that he’d have to learn that it would take away from his hitting, and probably from his fielding. Also, taking Delgado’s bat out of the lineup would be utterly pointless, as he is doing well and we owe him the sun and the moon in $$.
And this crap about Dan Murphy? The odds that he is good enough to make the bigs is slim to none. He is a utility player at best. I’d much rather sign our worthless setup man Aaron Heilman and get Xavier Nady to produce from first base should Delgado fail.
And on Miguel Cabrera, what the hell are you talking about? they put him in for 8 innings at the position. Probably because their OTHER 3 FIRST BASEMEN, CARLOS GUILLEN, MARCUS THAMES, AND GARY SHEFFIELD needed some rest. And that wasn’t because he had one flaw at third. That was because he was a fat pig who had literally no skill at third, so they gave him 1 GAME at second.
Of course, I agree on re-signing Perez, but later.
SABATHIA WILL NOT BE A FREE AGENT. CC will be traded at the deadline if traded at all. GMs don’t go out all willy nilly signing aces whenever they’re available. Our starting pitching staff is sufficient and we don’t need to spend another $20 million a year for another long term commitment. Don’t freak out because Santana doesn’t pitch a perfect game every time.
Sorry – we wont have Delgado next year, but we could certainly sign Nady or someone else like Dunn or Teixeira. There are much better options than moving Wright to a different position and calling up some piece of crap.
Bottom line, talk all you want about this team’s offense, but when your ace gives up 5 runs when the other team’s ace is on the mound, you’re not going to win many of those games.
Let’s just take the series tomorrow and get Reyes back on the field Tuesday.
I’m pretty sure only 3 of them were earned.
Four were earned. Two solo homers and a two run homer after a two out walk were all Santana’s.
When will people stop booing our own players? It’s counterproductive and fans shouldn’t be so emotional. I mean last year was rough but booing our own players isn’t going to help any. We need to be supportive in the bad times and the good.
I agree, mets fans are starting to sound like fools. boo the opposing team. dont boo your ace. he has another 6 years with us, get used to him having a bad game here or there.
the boos were scattered, but audible. its embarrassing for met fans
seriously i agree. i was at the game today and i was shocked to here boo’s. it’s the guys first start and home on the biggest stage in the world, and despite what he says, he’s nervous.. i wonder if the same people will boo him his next start when he blows batters.
it is embarassing.. i mean come on that’s stooping to phillie fan level
Sign Sabathia? Money aside, why would any Free agent want to sign here. As i write this the reporters are questioning Santana on his reaction to the boos. Un real! Not for being on the mitchell report, not for being on the front pages of the papers for adultery, not for questionable lyrics in a rap sone….but because he left a few pitches up that got hit out?!?!
Like i said before, nobody is above booing, but the quick trigger finger of the fans at the stadium to boo every slight miscue is getting really old really fast
I agree, a large portion of the fans and media are absolutely ridiculous, and need to be patient. Santana isn’t arguably the best pitcher in baseball for no reason. He’s pitched great so far, and he hasn’t even shown signs of what he’s capable of.
That being said, I don’t think the media is going to dissuade Sabathia from pitching here. Losing Delgado, El Duque, Alou, and Pedro, just off the top of my head, frees up a ton of money. Enough to sign some big, sure-thing free agents.
I have followed the Twins for quite awhile. MOst people don’t realize Santana has been simply outstanding in the second half . He could run off 10-12 in a row. With the exception of last year. This 2nd half run has been his pattern. JUst wait it will happen again. If he is over 500 in the first half – most fans will be happy with him by sept..
The question should not fully be him. Lets look at
1. Defense behind him
2. Hitting supporting him
Geez. I’m ashamed to be a Mets fan today. How do you boo Johan Santana? He’s new and hadn’t even pitched badly up to today. Too bad it’s probably a very vocal minority. They make the rest of us look bad.
Do some realize that he’s a slow starter and has pitched poorly in Aprils before — including his Cy Young 2006 season? Do some really expect him to win every game?
They should administer IQ tests before they let people into Shea.
The stadium would be almost empty if they administered that test.
Idiots!
I’ll tell you why the fans boo……
1. ticket prices up 20% from last year…
2. is this gonna be 1992 all over again?? A bunch of underachievers?
3. their offense is anemic..
4. santana to be honest with you…doesn’t look that great (yet). And for $$ 135 million, you expect this guy to be lights out. Looks alot like last year (which was some fluke down year …right?)
5. they look like the mets from last year….
I hope they turn it around. They need some fire!
Quaf
What does any of that have to do with Santana? If you’re booing for those reasons, especially 1-3, you’re booing at the wrong time
I can’t believe you’re justifying this. Santana has pitched well enough to be 2-0 after today (bad defense behind him didn’t make pitching today any easier. scoring only 3 runs a game doesn’t help, either). Unless your name is Roger Cedeno, you shouldn’t be booed by Met fans if you’re a Met. It’s sad, it’s childish, and it makes this fan base look like a bunch of babies.
Yeah, lets take out all our frustrations on our star pitcher even though he doesn’t deserve it. That way when other players are free agents they’ll be sure to put the Mets at the top of their list. Teixeira is already drooling at the mouth thinking of the possibility of all those NY boos.
And forget that Santana often has poor Aprils/early seasons. The contract means he has to be better than he was in the past! Yeah, that makes perfect sense.
for all those reasons maybe you can do us all a favor and stop being a fan. go root for the ignorant phillies.
And to reply to one of your idiotic remarks, Santana has pitched in 3 games so far, and 2 of them were gems. This wasnt even that bad of a start, he just stayed in longer than he should have because he wanted the win, and the offense didnt come through.
tough game today. the defense was a bit shaky, the offense again hit and miss, and johan was merely ok. given he once again did not ‘have his best sutff,’ he more or less kept the game in reach, although less so with the last home run. given it is still quite early and this team is without question battered in terms of health (missing alou, reyes, martinez, sanchez, castro, wise, castillo (sort of)), a pass can be given for the moment. however, and i do not mean to sound like a broken record, but here are some major issues to this point, as i generally see it:
- mets pitchers continue to give up 2 strike hits while they have the count in their favor. i am not talking here and there, but it seems rampant. this was something i noticed last season.
- mets pitchers continue to give up 2 out killer hits. it is just like they can not seem to finish at bats ahead, they just can not seem to finish the other teams rallies.
- mets batters continue to leave men all over the place. they have been better, generally, the past couple of games, even today getting a runner in from third. but come on, how many times have they had 2 men on, even more so, the bases loaded and gotten either nothing or some minimal run output? just off the top of my head, i can think of 5 situations. today, i understand their were two outs, but david is the man who is supposed to make it happen there. that at bat changes the entire game. no question.
- seemingly, the mets have lost the ability to hit the ball out of the park. when gabe kapler more or less has as many home runs as the whole mets team, something is wrong. when richie weeks has half? bill hall has one more? at this point, the mets are on pace for 64 home runs this season. clearly, it is early, cold, there are injuries and one would hope the law of averages will take over at some point, but…really? it does not seem to be an issue for many other teams.
just my thoughts. but some of this scares me.
*there
booing Santana is just silly. ALthough so far he hasn’t really shown that he lives up to the hype (or the cost), but he should have known that the boos come with the contract (right Beltran)?
Hopefully he does get warmed up and has a strong year. If they got sold a bill of goods on him, this year will not finish well.
And will the offense ever wake up? It seems that 5 hits per game is now the normal allotment.
shows how classy mets fans are..but im glad santana fired back when he was asked if they ever booed him in minnesota and he said “if they boo thats fine ….its from thier History of not being very good”
Haha, I chuckled at that. We deserved it today.
be glad, but it wont make it any easier on him next time he is in trouble. If he is getting offended over a couple of scattered booes, wait until he loses a big playoff game or takes a beating against atlanta or philly and then wait for the booes to rain down. If this team has such a history being so bad, why did you want to play here Johan. He can go back to Minnesota as far as I am concerned, give us back Gomez and Guerra. This guy is a diva, not much different then A-Rod, only A-Rod is killed relentlessly by the media, but can you imagine how bad he would get killed in the papers if he held a team hostage like Johan did to Minnesota? Plus this guy was ready to walk away over 3 or 4 mil in a 140 million dollar contract. Sounds like winning is the number 1 priority for Johan. I wouldnt boo him, but he has to expect it he just signed the biggest and most dangerous contract in the history of baseball. Now go perform.
I just dont like the guy very much, and it has little to do with todays lack luster performance.
Yes, just like A-Rod in that he is the best player at his position in the game.
You can stop talking now.
Why, Johan publicly bashed the Twins in mid-season in 07. He held them hostage and told them he would only play for 3 teams. He said this publicly so that Minnesota lost tons of leverage while trying to deal him. He said he would not allow a trade unless he was given a foolish amount of money, an amount no other pitcher has ever approached. He put deadlines on when he could be traded. All A-rod ever did was sign a huge free agent contract and opt out during the world series, yet A-Rod is treated like Satan in these parts. If you want to debate a point I make, or prove me wrong, you will have to do much, much, better then simply saying … “you can stop talking now”.
How about trying to back up your arguement with something real.
NRMax: I dont see how you can not like this guy. You sound like people who don’t like Beltran because he’s “soft”. Frankly, it’s ridiculous. He didn’t do anything different during contract negotiations than what you should expect from the best pitcher in baseball. IN fact, like a man, he went into the negotiating room himself. so, you’re off there.
And as for his comments. REally?!?!? You are offended. I’m not attacking you man, but seriously, get over it. If anything, he was speaking the ABSOLUTE TRUTH. I see fans booing as a product of 2007 and prior to that.
Fans have this mental thing going on and every single person booing on there should be embarrased.
AS for people who question the investment of Johan, I seriously laugh at you…after 3 games JimYager???
nrmax, I see where you’re coming from here (kind of), but your emotions are getting the best of you here. To compare A-Rod to Santana on any grounds other than the fact that they’re both the best players at their respective positions is a bit ridiculous.
A-Rod is greedy. He opted out of his contract despite wanting to stay with the Yankees? Why? So he could get a nice, fat raise, despite making more than any other player in baseball.
Santana complained because, after trading Castillo, he didn’t agree with the direction of the Twins organization, which seemed to begin rebuilding. And it was rebuilding. And if you’re the best pitcher in the baseball, why do you want to waste your prime pitching years on a team that probably won’t compete until you’re in your mid-30’s? Not to mention the fact that they weren’t going to be able to pay the man after this season, considering he’s one of the best pitchers in the game (and should be payed accordingly).
Santana was just a little peeved, and I don’t blame him. He pitched his butt off these past few games, and has only one win to show for it. And what does he get? Boos from his own team’s fans? It’s ridiculous, and he in no way deserves it. I’m glad he fired back. A lot of people deserved it today.
with 2 losses and 1 win he has not shown us that he is the pitcher we thought we where getting. At what point do I have the right to question his performance? 4,5,8 games? If he is 4-4 at his eighth game is that good?Bad? what? I bet you think that the Yankees got there money’s worth out of Roger the Rocket? When you give up what we did and pay what we did you expect a better record, thats all Im saying. Perhaps he will go on and have a 10-4 or 15-5 season, who knows. As of right now at this moment in time he is not worth it and the team is not playing good baseball, thats the facts Jack. Its not just him its the whole team. Its early, blah,blah,bah…. I think I speak for alot of fans when I say anything short of a ring is a waste.
First of all, wins and losses are a bad way to judge pitchers. And while I understand that anything short of a ring would be tremendously dissapointing, and if we just die in the playoffs it will be a bad year, but a “waste” of what? Carlos Gomez, Humber, Guerrera, and Mulvey? Seriously that? If Santana came up with the Mets, and Omar traded him away for those four players, every single comment on this thread would contain the words “fire omar.”
Omar got a steal, a complete steal, and if you can’t see that, than please, pleaseee explain your logic to me.
“AS for people who question the investment of Johan, I seriously laugh at you…after 3 games JimYager???”
Ok people. I have questioned the Santana investment before they even made that tarde. I never wanted it to go down.
“Omar got a steal, a complete steal, and if you can’t see that, than please, pleaseee explain your logic to me.”
Here is my logic. We traded away 24 years of productivity for 1 year of Santana. We may have signed him after, but te Twins were only selling one year of him. If Gomez becomes a star, the trade is even right there and everything else is gravy. And you all continue to miss the point. Maybe the Twins didnt get the best possible package, but the package they got from us was all they had. Whether or not I would be calling for Omars head if the tables were reversed is irrelevant.
I also never said I was offended by Santana’s words after the game. I am saying that they were stupid on his part, and childish, and that is not the way to conduct yourself in this market if you want the support of your fanbase. I frankly dont care what his opinion on the history of the mets is.
And it isnt so much that I dont like Santana, as I didnt like the trade, though I will admit that Santana’s diva like attitude in the last year or so has made me think less of him. Not that he cares, or that I have to defend the way I feel about the Mets players. I am as diehard as they come and never booed Beltran, you can search the posts from the first day of Metsblog, I am one of the guys here bashing the fair weather fans. I love Omar.
Again, none of this has anything to do with his performance. His performance as a Met has nothing to do with it. I am just saying that it is childish and foolish on his behalf to take a couple of scattered boo’s personally (that most likely came from some drunk fans, maybe even philly fans who knows) and retaliate by taking a shot at the franchise you now play for. I mean come on, this guy is a grown up. His performance in the 3 starts has been great. Johan is great. I will root for him everytime. I just wasnt a huge fan of the trade, nor is Johan my favorite player in the world.
wow, and I thought only yankee fans were stupid. learn something new everyday.
To judge Johan based on how many wins he has is probably the most ridiculous thing anybody could do. How many runs did the Mets score in his first loss? Did he deserve that loss? How about today? With Wright’s errors, and our struggling offense, did he really pitch us out of the game?
Wins are a ridiculous pitching statistic that people harp on for no reason. Johan could pitch CG shutouts every start for the rest of the year, and if our offense doesn’t score, he’ll finish the season with a 1-2 record. So where is the logic in deciding whether the trade was bad or not based on his win total? I’ll help you out; there isn’t any.
I can’t speak for nrmax but I know to to me, if our team isn’t good enough to win this year with Santana, then what was the point of trading for him, considering he was likely going to be a free agent next year. Which isn’t on Santana as much as the front office.
Well to be honest the METS have NOT been the best and getting the money worth out of big contract as of late.Short of Mike Piazza, who brought us to the playoffs and WS, what have we gotten out of Glavine, Pedro, Beltran and now Santana? Big money does NOT mean big results and for the price of parking, tickets, hot dogs, drinks, tolls, gas and merchandise, I have paid for the right to BOO if I choose to. I can also scream and cheer as well. Trade David Wright? did I hear that correct? Wright and Reyes are the heart of this team,without them we have nothing, but a bunch of over the hill over paid players, for the most part. IF this team cam win us a WS then all will be forgiven, if not, then they will hear it from the fans. Santana is correct in a way, we BOO because we have NOT won since 1986 and we want it bad. We also know that this team is better than this. We made it all the way to game 7 in 2006. Since then we have stunk.
maybe you should think about following another team???? please….
Paid for the right to boo? You’re not owed anything. You deserve nothing. Do everybody a favor, keep the money in your pocket, and stay home.
You are right, but at the same time, if he pays for admission, he can scream, boo, all he wants. Its his right. The thing that is more important is Santana has to realize most people are behind him and not to even take notice when 50 people out of 40 thousand boo you.
Are you guys METS FANS? What is childish is that I can not express my opinion and sat what I think without a bunch of you self rightouis all knowing super die hard Mets Fans attacking me. I have calender on the wall with the TV stations, radio stations and web TV times that the games are on, I also, cant watch most weekend games unless they are on ESPN. I have a room full of METS stuff and every baseball card from 1992-2007. But, Im not a real fan, because I dont blow smoke and sunshine around and get on and say it early or we are still in first place. You take the good with the bad and if I can scream and cheer until Im horse and clap until my hands are red and sore, then, I can also BOO when Im not happy. I am sure that many people agree with me, but, are affraid to say anything because the “real Mets fans” will attack them. Well Im not going away and if I cant vent my frustration and anger here among fellow fans then there is a big problem. When Im in public I will defend the Mets up and down and I wear my hat and jacket with pride, even during and after the collapse. I still hear it from all the Red Sox fans. I think whne you just turn on the TV and the game is always there and jump on a train for an hour and your at the game, you take it for granted. Lets all play together and share the sandbox, ok? Yes, 3 starts is not a real sample of his work,I agree. If the team cant play there A-Game when the ACE on the mound, who’s fault is that? I wont support another team and I wont be silenced by you people. Lets go Mets !!!!!
no offense but you cannot judge the guy on his first 3 games. you said:
“with 2 losses and 1 win he has not shown us that he is the pitcher we thought we where getting”
Johan won the Cy Young in 2006. Just so you know, he started that year 1-3.
oo BURN!
Just got back from the game. I’d say it was more of a mixed reaction because there certainly were some cheers to go along with the boos. That said booing Santana today is ridiculous and you can do all you want to make excuses for it but its just silly. News Flash: The guy is not gonna give you 7 innings with one or two runs against every single time. He pitched against a tough line-up today and gave up a few too many long balls. How about we balance this against the win his offense cost him last Sunday and call it even.
Those of you booing should stick to starting Yankees Suck chants while we’re playing the Phillies.
Well said!!!
To me Santana has been just fine besides today’s game. First game 7 innings, 2 runs. Second game 7 innings,1 run. What else do you want? Can’t help that the offense didn’t get him the win in Atlanta. Today, off his game, I’m not worried.
i’m a little scared with santana & here is my reason.
I have read that his homers allowed have gone up in each of the last 3 years & for a good reason. it seems as though he has abandoned what used to be his strike out pitch(s) his fastball & maybe even more so his slider (some people thought was the best in baseball) & has fallen in love with his change-up which I believe all of his 4 homeruns this year have been off his change-up.
I think you can say the same about a lot of mets pitchers (maine, santana, heilman….etc). I know maine’s 2 hr’s on Thursday night were both off change-ups.
as far as the offense is considered it’s hard to score runs when your table setters are batting a combined .200 or there abouts. & as many of you have mentioned the power totals are extremely bad.
You made that up, or atleast part of it, Santana never was known for having a very good slider. It was always okay. He stopped throwing it late last year because Minny was done and he had blister problems. Nobody ever called his slider the best pitch in baseball, it is widely known that his changeup is far and away his best pitch, and may be the best in baseball, not his slider.
Well said.
i heard it mentioned during the offseason after we acquired santana that people felt the reason for his increase in homeruns allowed is due to his increase in change-ups being a bigger part of his pitch selection. they even went as far as to give out the numbers as far as how many change-ups vs. fastballs & sliders.
i completely disagree because in my opinion alone that slider he throws is awesome, especially when he throws it down & in to a righty hitter.
but everyone is entitled to their opinion & I respect what you have to say.
It also sickens me to here the fans booing johan, but unfortunately i don’t think you can do anything to change that.
I think because of the enormous contracts these players sign that fans expect these players to be perfect everytime they take the field.
That is something these guys have to consider before they go somewhere solely based on what they will be paid. He could be making 20 million a year over the next 5 years in Minnesota and having the fans appreciate every second of him. Thats not how it is here. He made his bed.
As VCarver has (unsuccessfully) been trying to get people to understand, Johan is a SLOW STARTER. Always has been….I am a born bred and current resident of NYC (queens) and i am actually embarrased to admit that with fans’ reactions/behaviors since March 31
Maine gave up 1HR Thur night
It’s unbelievable and embarrasing that Santana got boo’d today…he pitched pretty well…his achilles heel has always been the long ball…keep in mind that the brew crew led the majors in homeruns.
Why are Mets fans turning into obnoxious Yankee fans?
Because they think they can justify it by saying, “this is New York.” Some people need to realize that New Yorkers aren’t the only people who really care about their team. This isn’t the only city that really loves and expects a lot from their team. Those other cities/fans aren’t nearly as quick to boo.
They need to get over it. Booing accomplishes nothing and 95% of the time makes absolutely no sense. Today is a great example of that.
agreed…Philly fans boo’d Mike Schmidt…Yankee fans boo’d jeter and a-rod for crying out loud…
I think it just shows the lack of baseball knowledge and respect for the game that many people have…
it also shows a sense of entitlement because of salaries and ticket prices (see earlier comment)…my response to that is if you think they make too much or you pay too much then don’t go…
And others can respond to you by saying that if they are paying big money to go buy a seat for a game, then they have the right to boo anybody they choose. This isnt that surprising, it wasnt the whole crowd booing. What is more worrisome to me is Johans childish reaction to these booes.
I understand that argument about purchasing a ticket…I don’t agree with it but I get it…
I do not have a problem with booing when it is deserved…my issue is that itt wasn’t the time today…
A great time to boo is when glavine couldn’t get out of the first inning…
I think Beltran could pull Santana aside and give him a nickel’s worth of free advice about the fans and making comments…
Who was it that had to convince Carlos to take a curtain call following a big hr a couple years ago?
Listen, I am not Johan’s biggest fan, I did not even want to trade for him, I still would like to have that trade back, but I wouldnt have considered booing the guy today. My point is that people pay lots of money to see these games and they have an arguement that they have the right to boo whoever they feel like. I agree Beltran has to pull Johan aside and tell him to stop being like a child and just be a man. You got booed by like a couple hundred people out of 40 some thousand. Dont be a baby and make statements that will annoy the rest of the fans that do have your back. Not the home opener we envisioned.
Yeah my guess is he’d probably like to have those comments back…
It will not help him win over some people…
I had no problem with the trade, I loved Gomez but Humber is years away from doing anything…the trade happened out of necessity, just imagine the starting rotation now without johan and with pete being hurt…
Maine
Perez
Pelf
Figgy
_____??
My problem is not with Johan in that trade, it is about the contract we handed out and the emptying of the system. I would have preferred to have a down year and go hard after Sabtahia/Santana after this year. Plus I love Gomez more then most. I also assume that we would have picked up lohse/Livan or somebody. I realize they might not have made the playoffs this year, and I was willing to deal with that. It just is a little bit annoying that he reacts that way to a couple of stupid fans, pro athletes should know tht this comes with the territory, especially in a large market when you are making more money then anybody these people ever watched before. Like people have said, it was a very small minority that was booing, 99 percent of met fans have santanas back no matter what.
I too was expecting a down year…Livan has looked pretty good thus far…
Minaya’s philosphy has been to win NOW, I do not necessarily agree with it because I think you set yourself up for failure…
Building a team for long-term success will give you more than one opportunity to win the world series…
This team seems to get older every year, a lot of holes will need to be filled sooner rather than later…
I like the way Arizona and Colorado have build teams, but as we all know, teams in smaller markets tend to have more patient fan bases…
I think you are WAY off on gutting the system…..maybe he did, but i dont agree with the thought behind it. THose guys we gave up, frankly, aren’t elite type prospects. Sure, Gomez will be OK and i will root for him, but i dont see him as anything special…at least right now. And believe me, if Omar doesnt pull that trigger and we put Gomez in the OF and he sucks…Omar would be getting ROASTED. It’s “the grass is greener on the other side” and people really need to start realizing that.
What about the Brewers? They have one of the youngest, most promising pitching staffs in baseball, and their entire in-field and most of their outfield is filled with young guys who’ve got a ton of potential.
That being said, this is a win-now team considering the ages of most of our players. If we come up short this season, then maybe considering revamping.
Roach, your point about Omar getting roasted if he kept Gomez, and cbk’s point about winning now are both big parts of this I think. Omar has his job to think about, not the future, because he is not gaurunteed to be back next year. Once he is extended long term he can really focus on the future, instead of only winning now to keep his job. Its a catch 22, because in certain situations a GM with 1 year left can make the right move for a franchise and be fired for it because he didnt yield immediate results. Kind of like Depodesta, who set up Ned Coletti with a crazy farm system before he was shown the door. I love Omar, and trading for Johan alone should gauruntee him an extension. The part that bothers me is the people complaining about being old and having no depth are the same ones who said “we want santana no matter what rah rah rah, we want santana or fire omar”. We knew by brining in Santana we were depleting the farm, and all our in house depth for 08. This is a humongous draft for the Mets coming up.
No matter how you slice it, there is no excuse for booing your ace, especially when he hasn’t been stinking up the joint. I hope those Mets fans that bood cut the crap and go back to being Yankee fans.
You are right, it is inexcusable, but for Santana to get fired up over that is a bit of a joke to me. What does he expect? The guy is making millions of dollars, and has gotten beaten by the first 2 aces he has to face. If he is firing back at the crowd 2 weeks into his Met career, somebody better pull him aside and tell him the way it is. This guy doesnt want the fans mad at him, or they will be looking for a reason to boo him everytime out there. He just seems like to much of a diva to me, ever since 2007 openly bashing the Twins in the paper during the season.
He got beat when he allowed what, 1 or 2 runs? That doesn’t count.
Off topic: Tiger is on the first page of the leaderboard…
*meant to say working his way up to the front page…
People boo because they expect a good product on the field and instead they see some very disappointing baseball. Especially since this team has been very hyped up the past few seasons and the way they have promoted the team with SNY etc. It’s extremely expensive to go to game, inconvenient with traffic, long train rides and no parking. If I player can be cheered, make a huge salary, receive endorsements, get tons of attractive women and all the other perks that go with being a big league player then the fans have the right to feel anyway they want when the team or certain players are not performing.
I respectfully disagree…
That is a sense of entitlement that no fan should have…
This team has won two world series…one since I have been alive…I am extatic that they are in contention, and it hurts like hell when they are not…
I am not suggesting that there is no occasion to boo, all i am saying is that it is embarrasing to have your ace boo’d after a game that he pitched pretty well in…sheets was just better today, that doesn’t warrant boo’ing
Alright…but what exactly does the booing accomplish? I just will never understand the idea that they make a lot of money and it costs a lot of money so we should boo when they don’t perform to our expectations. This is how I see it:
1. No one is making anyone go to these games. If you don’t like the team, the contracts, the state of baseball today, just don’t go.
2. The players are paid what the owners decide to pay them. Just as you or I want to get paid as much as we can for our jobs, so do they. Some of this money comes from revenue, so again see #1. But also, I don’t fault any of these guys for the size of their contracts. They make what someone was willing to pay.
3. Saying that fans boo because players aren’t performing up their expectations assumes that these players are some how not TRYING to perform well. I have no doubt that Santana wanted to pitch well today. I have no doubt that he gave it everything he had to try and win this game. Why would I boo him because he had a bad day? No one wins every start of the season. Some fans just have unrealistic expectations. When will it be okay for him to lose some games? Because we all know he is going to do that, so when can he do it and not get jeers?
4. Sure you can go and express your disappointment that Santana didn’t do what you thought he was going to do but in the end, what have you really accomplished? Did anyone honestly expect him to be perfect every time he starts?
I tend to think we are in the majority on this one…unfortunately it is a quiet majority…
The media has not helped the situation this year either…
I love SNY’s coverage for the games…but now the new shows are fanning the flames…
It was great to see Figgy succeed last night…but the story for monday will now be santana getting boo’d…just not right
Perfectly stated. If you don’t like the team, contracts, ticket prices, then DON’T GO. But to go to a game to boo your team is not only pointless, but useless. You’re not doing anything but disgracing the rest of the fan base and making yourself look like a moron.
I feel shame to be a mets fan. Certain people need to stop throwing a tantrum. This is absurd.
First of all, Heilman has been boo’d on two consecutive opening days. He isn’t dominant but he is above the league average for set up men, and he has been consistent over the last 2.5 years. You do not boo him on opening day if you have ANY class what-so-ever.
Secondly, in the extra inning game vs Philly, mets fans boo’d Showenweis when he was coming into a TIED EXTRA INNING GAME WITH A RUNNER ON BASE. And it’s not like they were booing because they were pissed Willie was bringing him in, they were booing… for god knows what reason. ITS A TIE GAME. For gods sakes, are you TRYING to get in our own players head in a rubber game, extra innings, vs a team that EMBARESSED the mets last year?
Thirdly, today. I can’t even talk about it. The mets have been playing good. They are third in the NL in runs per game. Our starting pitching has been VERY good. And you BOO SANTANA?!
Do you want to ruin his experience in New York so soon? Is your intention to negatively effect the productive of every single player on the team?
We aren’t 0-10. We are 5-5 and in second place. But now, I almost feel bad that Santana signed here to play infront of such IDIOTS.
Agreed. There were also some boo’s today when Schoeneweis came in to pitch. Unbelievable! I mean, he’s coming off an appearence where he saved the game for the mets by getting Utley to ground into that DP, and the time before, he prob would have been able to double up Howard with the bases loaded if Delgado’s throw had’nt hit off of Utley’s back. I mean, I hate to say it, but he has done well this year, and yet, he still gets booed when coming into the game today. Pathetic.
Also, I was at the game today (sitting in the Mezz) and I really didn’t get the impression that Santana was getting booed that bad. I saw alot of other fans giving him a good hand, and some were even standing. Now, there deffinately were some scattered booes to which I turned around and yelled at the people “Oh, shuut the hell up” but I got the feeling that those were few and far between. Unfortunately, I guess I was wrong about that.
“We aren’t 0-10. We are 5-5 and in second place. But now, I almost feel bad that Santana signed here to play infront of such IDIOTS.”
Yeah, I feel so bad that a guy making 140 million had to endure a couple hundred drunk and ignorant fans booing him, about 1 percent of the crowd, if that. Like I said, he could be in Minnesota for 5 years and 100 million, and they wouldn even consider booing him, they would worship him for the next 5 years, and he would still be loaded. Nobody made him come here.
wtf, so you don’t want johan now, nrmax? I’m confused.
I know he wasn’t forced to come here, but does that mean we get permission to boo him like a bunch of idiots?
You really sound like a bitter guy. Who peed in your cornflakes when you were growing up? Why don’t you take your man-crush for Carlos Gomez and go root for the Twins? Once you start your argument with how much money athletes make then you just sound resentful of what they have and you don’t. If you think it’s your right to go to a game and boo your team instead of supporting it then you’re issues are more deep rooted than a baseball game. Get some therapy. People might like you. Archie Bunker is dead.
Um. Okay. I never boo at a baseball game. I have never even booed Chipper Jonez or Jimmy Rollins when they come up. I find the whole thing stupid, and besides, those guys just rake harder when we boo. Next issue. Why would I root for the Twins? Because the Mets traded away one of my favorite guys in a package for the best pitcher in the world, although a player I am not personally crazy about? Who does that? Switch allegiances with every move you dont like? Nah man, sorry, I root for the Mets no matter what, and since you dont know me, your little analysis on my issues is taken with a grain of salt.
Where did I start any arguement about money? All I said is that it is ridiculous to feel bad for a guy who is making millions upon millions of dollars playing one of the best games in the world just because less then 1 percent of a humongous group of people boo’d him. If you disagree, then that is your perogative, though I am not quite sure how it corrolates to me having issues, or somebody peeing in my corn flakes (by the way, this seems an awfulls specific idea, do you have personal experience with corn flakes? You talk about me, but maybe you have some issues involiving a grown man peeing in your cornflakes that you have to work out).
Once again, people have to realize that none of this has anything to do with Johans performance up to this point. I think he has been fantastic.
“wtf, so you don’t want johan now, nrmax? I’m confused.
I know he wasn’t forced to come here, but does that mean we get permission to boo him like a bunch of idiots?”
I never really wanted him. Between the package we gave up, for only one year of Santana(which would have stopped me from making the move alone), on top of the ridiculous financial commitment and the fiscal stupidity of signign a pitcher to a 7 year deal worth 20 mil a year (which also would have by itself stopped me from making this move), it just wasnt worth it. If this team was deep in the minors and truly loaded for a WS run, then maybe, but there were too many problems with this team to use all your bullets on one of them.
I am not for booing Johan, and I never will. Not even if he gives up 5 runs in game 7 of the world series and is chased after 1 inning. I just dont boo. But I think it is not good for the team to have Johan taking shots at the fans and at the franchise because of a few idiots who acted stupid.
agree completely….people do realize that you can look at virtually every single ace around baseball and guess what? They have bad games!! Also, lets remember, this brewers lineup KILLS Lefties…I think there was 1 LH hitter today…come on….
Anyone who boos needs to truly realize what this guy is gonna do for us over time…
pathetic and embarrassing for mets fans
I was at the game today ( my first of ‘08) and must say despite the loss i had an awesome time. The weather was just right for baseball in April, Johan was making his NY debut, the last major debut Shea will ever see. To see Citifield in the outfield was incredible; Ron said it best, “its like a nice suit on Shea”. Perfect.
The only thing that felt like ‘07 was the crowd, that same stale nervous crowd that couldn’t find the tempo to do a Let’s Go Mets cheer. We need to pick it up. That said, even though we lost, i’m excited about this team this year and these Mets.
I don’t know what’s more ridiculous: the vocal minority that booed our Ace in his first home start despite his ERA currently resting at 3.00 or the people that are here justifying those morons’ right to boo the guy because he signed a big contract.
Muniz only looked good because the wind kept multiple long balls from leaving the park…i was at the game, and his performance did not inspire much confidence.
Or people who don’t like him for juvenile reasons.
metsblog….home of the pessimistic fan
LOL…Matt should make this the new slogan for Metsblog.
I disagree with Matt whole-heartedly.
Santana should have been pulled.
He was obviously done.
It is early in the season and no pitcher is fully stretched so that they go 120 pitches.
He should have been pulled one or two at bats before.
He walked Weeks on four pitches (and not intentionally). If that is not clear as day he is spent I dont know what is.
Hang this on Willie for not taking Santana out earlier.
Santana battled today. He almost gave you 7 innings anyway. But near the end he clearly was done.
I blame this wholeheartedly on Willie.
And even that said, if Reyes was playing and defense was a little more crisp, Santana’s pitch count would have been much less.
That ground ball to Wright was a tailor made DP, which would have gotten Santana out of the sixth inning at exactly 90 pitch count. But because of the error he finished the sixth with 98 pitches.
Yes, your ace can come out into the 7th and finish the inning, but if he starts to sputter take him out! He did sputter. Willie left him in, and HR. Game over and that the difference in the game.
BOOO of the day is Willie (and second for DWright for his errors, and despite his HR with no one on, he came up small with runner in scoring position). Sure its too early and Wright is and will be our start, but he is struggling right now and you cant disagree with that.
Hindsight is 20/20, man. I’m pretty sure that a four pitch walk isn’t proper justification for pulling a guy who is only one out awayfrom getting through the inning, and is our ace pitcher. Plus, Gabe Kapler was coming up. I mean, Gabe Kapler. A righty, and a guy that went from coaching to playing. I like Santan’s chances going into that match-up 100% of the time.
The fact that Santana would give up a HR is something I did not know would happen.
But in real time, I knew that Santana was done prior to the HR.
As I said above, its only the third start of the season. Why get a guy into a pitch count that is so high? Its not warranted.
If he had a very quick and easy inning, then let him finish. He was not. He came into the inning with a 98 pitch count. He did not have a lot of pitches left.
Give him one, if he gets him easy get him another, again if he gets him easy (and in each case looks strong and in command) then perhaps let him continue.
He was not sharp the entire day. He was tiring in the inning which was clear.
To be, whether an ace was on the mound or not, a fresher arm would have been the preference.
When they replay the inning. Look at Santana’s body language. He was SPENT.
Shame on Willie for not doing the right thing.
This game was on Wright. Horrible defense, couldn’t get the big hit with the bases loaded. Not saying he hasn’t played great in the past, but for this one game, he cost the Mets more than anyone else.
Totally agree.
How about no need to boo….team is in 2nd place…season is 11 games old.
I just don’t agree with leaving Santana in. Can’t call it second guessing with me b/c I was saying it before Kapler batted. The 2 errors by Wright and the misplay by Easley equaled an extra inning of work for Santana. He should’ve been taken out after the 6th or after 1 batter in the 7th when his pitch count hit 100. It’s only April 12 and we shouldn’t be extending anyone yet beyond 100 pitches IMO. We need Santana to have something left come fall.
I agree with every word you said.
Just got back from the game, and I was shocked when I heard during the car ride that Santana had been booed. I heard very little boos for Santana – a lot of cheers actually (to my surprise frankly, because he didn’t pitch very well).
But I may know where the confusion is coming from – a lot of fans (including myself) were booing Randolph when he came out to get Santana. Maybe that’s where this is coming from? Speaking of which … you go into the 7th with Santana already at 100 pitches thrown, and he hasn’t gone beyond 100 pitches in a game yet this season. With guys warming up in the bullpen, I thought the thinking was that we would leave Santana in to see how many more outs he could get, and at the first sign of trouble, we would go to the bullpen. So it all worked like clockwork, until Santana walked Weeks and Randolph didn’t go get him. Hello Willie! He just walked the guy on 4 straight pitches, he was over 110 pitches for the day, and you could tell he was beginning to labor. What are you waiting for??!! And then he goes and gets him after he gives up that shot to Hardy? I really want Willie to succeed, but he regularly costs us games with these decisions (which are also counter to how he treated Maine and Oliver in similar situations). If we were just going to stick with Santana no matter what just to get an inning out of him and save the bullpen, why even bother getting guys up in the bullpen to warm up? Drives me crazy. (As an aside, constantly getting guys up in the bullpen to warm up is almost as damaging to their arms as getting them into the game – you would think Petersen of all people would understand this.)
Anyway, I think if there were boos, they were for Randolph, not Santana.
Gonna get philosophical here:
Mets fans, Yankees fans, Knick fans, Bosox fans, Cowboys fans…you name the boo-birds. There’s no difference.
They say they pay for a ticket, so they have a right to boo…blah, blah….a right to be obnoxious.
But truth is, booing just comes from a sad, insecure, often vile place within them.
As Springsteen once sang, “I guess there’s just a meanness in this world.”
I personally don’t think that there is any real good reason to boo your favorite team or anyone on it.
I also understand that not everyone is in the same financial boat that I am in. I realize that I may be able to afford a few more tickets per year than some others. I have a season ticket plan and attend games on a regular basis. That being said, who am I to criticize the guy sitting in the next row who might be attending the only game he gets to this season and is unhappy with the effort that he saw turned in? It’s his right. In my case, there’s always tomorrow. In his, who knows? He paid a lot of money to get in, buy hot dogs for his family and maybe a souvenir or two. Hell, he even had to pay the ridiculous amount of $15 to park his car.
Agree with it or not, as long as he doesn’t throw anything onto the field or spew profanity he is allowed to say whatever he wants.
Like I said above, I don’t agree with anyone who boos their own team. But who am I to take him to task for it? Who are you?
nice post cristian, I have been trying to find a way to say what you said a bunch of times, but u put it very nicely. I dont agree with it, but its not my job to, and people have the right to boo if they want. My disapointment with Johan is that he seems to think this is our whole fanbase, instead of like less then 1 percent of the fanbase, and takes shots at us all and the mets in general.
When you make that much money (and yes, money is relevant because with a certain salary comes a certain responsibility), and you are as good as Johan, you just laugh and shrug that stuff off, not take shots at the Mets past.
or that 10 people booing are audible over 50 clapping
Heres a question completely off topic but something that SHOCKED me.
I played baseball throughout high school and have been watching since I was a kid, I am now 29, and gary cohen said something in the philly series that absolutely bewildered me.
I must have heard it wrong, but I clearly rememember him saying on the ball that victorino chased down caught and then got hit by werth (tackled more like it), that you must be able to take the ball out of your glove. whhhhhaaaattt? is this true? anyone?
the bidding war for texiera will be insane, mets and yanks will be desperate, he may end up with 20 mill, unless he gives the bravos a hometown discount.
Unfortunately true. My right fielder catches a ball for the third out of the inning. On his third step toward the infield heading for the dugout, the ball slips out of his glove, the umpire calls no catch and a run scores. Oh boy did I blow my top. I asked for his reasoning and he said pretty much what Gary said, because I was arguing that he caught it standing still and only dropped it after taking 3 steps. I was asking how long does he have to hold onto the ball to get an out. Its such a ridiculous call that its laughable. My thing was that if an infielder catches a popup for the third out near the pitchers mound, he usually just flips it out of his glove toward the mound, I’m sure you’ve seen this plenty of times. According to the explanation of the rule, that should be a dropped ball and no catch. Try getting that one though. One other call I never got was when the firstbaseman is playing in a little for the bunt with a man on first, and the pitcher throws over. I’ve seen that called a balk because the umpire says the firstbaseman has to be within a step of the bag when he catches the ball. Meanwhile I see a pickoff in a Yankee game where the runner was going and Giambi, as do lots of other firstbaseman, took two to three steps toward the mound before catching the ball to clear himself for the throw. Again, according to the rule, this should be called a balk as well but never is. LOL. I guess you can say I had a lot of issues when I coached.
Well, then the umpire butchered the rule. That isnt how it is supposed to be interpreted. You just have to be able to take the ball out of your glove, not actually do it. For instance, if you catch a ball in a dive and slide 2 feet and drop it, the runner is safe, if you catch a ball routinely and run into the dugout with the ball still in your glove without ever taking it ouit with your barehand, he is obviously still out. You are exactly right, it is an arbitrary stupid rule. But what are you going to do. I have been screwed by more umpires, and hockey refs then I can remember. I think it is just a part of life.
For all of you who say the Mets look like last year’s…. The 2007 Mets got of to an extremely good start. Came out of the gates like fire and still lost.
And the Phillies got of the a 2-11 start last year and won the division.
Look Wright is still young and you have to leave him at 3rd unless you have the FMART of 3rd base coming up, you could seriously screw his hitting up if you make him worry about playing a new position. I agree if we had gotten AROD Wright would be playing first right now.
I think it goes without saying that the offense hinges on Reyes. Sure they can squeeze out wins with Easley at short but Reyes is the charge of this offense and when he is off that puts a whole lot of pressure on the rest of the offense.
Angel Pagan should be playing every other day when Alou comes back. His stock was low in Chicago and the trade put new life into him, he is still young and maybe he pans out and becomes a star, who knows?
The lefties are raking btw.
I really can’t even believe fans would consider booing this guy after his first home start. I really don’t even know where to begin, or what to even say without completey going on a curse filled tirade.
I really can’t believe it, I’ve never been more ashamed to be a fan of this team. Not because of the play of them, but because of the morons that “support” the team around me. For all the real fans, you all know who you are, we are in it for the long run, through the years of a Lance Johnson, Alex Ochoa, Bernand Gilkey, Butch Huskey, Jeromy Burnitz, Timo Perez, Tshuioshi Shinjo (sp?), Bobby Bonilla, Jay Payton, Roger Cedeno running in our outfield; Tim Bogar, Jeff Kent, Matt Franco, Jason Phillips, Brent Mayne, Rey Ordonez, Joe Orsulak, Todd Hundley, Joe McEwing and David Segui in our infeild; Dave Mlicki, Rick Reed, Pat Mahomes, both Bobby Jones’, Armando Reynoso, Mel Rojas, Josias Manzanillo, Bill Pulsipher, Paul Wilson, Kenny Rogers, Scott Strickland, Armando Benitez and Braden Looper blowing seemingly endless games on our mound. My point here is that things have been MUCH worse in the past for the Mets, and we should be GLAD that we have these guys infront of us. Of course, alot of you can’t appreciate that as you’ve just become Mets fans in the past few months, but take a look at this team’s past if you’re new on board. Quit booing and trashing our team and making the experience for the rest of the real fans who have spent years watching not only really bad baseball, but really bad teams, a bad one in the final year of this decrepid park.
You want to boo? Try going through consistent years of sub 500 baseball throughout the early and mid 90’s. This team is nothing to boo, we have the pieces, you need to get behind this team. Booing the one true ace we’ve had in 3 decades is the most absurd thing I’ve seen, and I’m really ashamed to say it, but our fans are becoming spoiled rotten brat Yankee-esque fans. I can’t believe I just said it, but I did because it’s true. What have we won to give our fanbase this sense of entitlement? Unbelievable, I don’t even know what else to say, I’m completely ashamed of our fan base. That’s it.
I hear ya…
I am ASHAMED of these fans that booed Santana today. So classless…..
Do they want him to perform or not? By booing him and not showing him some support after his first struggle at home, this can really hurt his confidence.
Don’t think he really cares what a bunch of fat nobody’s have to say about him. I don’t think that will affect his confidence, but I think it could just agitate him and make him alot less fan-friendly. It’s just a vicious cycle, and even if it was the Mets fans booing Willie as others have said, as I’ve been saying all along, it needs to stop. Now they’ve crossed the line, and if they were booing Willie, the f#cked it up and now made our best player feel that he was being booed, so good job to all you dopes. I’ll have fun watching and supporting my team from home, still can’t believe the complete and utter stupidity of this fan base.
from daily news:
“I know a lot of people are expecting a lot of things from me, and I’m trying to do my job and hopefully exceed those expectations,” Santana said. “But at the same time I’m not going to do anything crazy.
“To be honest to you, a lot of times I don’t even hear anything out there. If they boo, that’s fine. That’s the history that they got from not being so good, I guess. It’s going to go on-and-on all the time. At the end, it’s what you see in the results, and hopefully the end will be something nice for everybody.”
I think the BOOING was on Willie, not Santana.
The BOOING was for WILLIE waiting too long to pull Santana.
Our ace was cheered when he came off. The booing was correct and aimed at Willie Clueless.
Yeah, god forbid we become like Yankee fans and have expectations to win games! If you want to continue to give our team a pat on the back for hanging in there and giving their best effort then go ahead. We don’t need fans like that. This team is good enough to win the NL East and I don’t expect anything less than that.
And if you want to boo your team every inning, then do everyone else a favor and stay at home, you’re ruining it for the rest of us.
Ruining what? Losing? If you are satisfied with losing then why do you even attend games?
Yes, you’re ruining losing. I’m not sure that even makes sense.
Why do YOU attend games if you’re so dissatisfied with everything? Stay home, drink too much beer, and yell at your tv all you want. But you’re ruining it for fans who want to go to the games and be supportive, and not have to listen to an obnoxious human being like yourself.
I attend games because I’m a Mets fan and want the best for the Mets. When the Mets perform poorly, I let them know about it. When they perform well, I cheer them as loud as anybody else. So go ahead and cheer pathetic performances like today’s from the team, I won’t stop you, but you aren’t going to stop be from booing them when they play this way.
You must be a youngster. My birthday is this month, and I want a Pepe Manguel jersey!
Yes, I am considerably older then many of the posters, and lived through the late 70’s (and even did it without the internet!)
early 20’s- not that young but not that old either. Old enough to have spent my childhood getting mocked in northern nj by all the yankee fans for liking such a pitiful team.
To the other posters- I’m not okay with losing, but there was nothing boo-worthy that I saw today. Nobody was dogging it, Sheets was untouchable today after the 2nd inning. Santana missed with a few pitches- it’s going to happen. It’s very early, we’re very banged up, and if you look at our lineup, the only people that are struggling right now are Jose, Luis, and David. We all know Dave and Jose will turn it around, so in my mind, I think we will be really fine. We aren’t getting blown out, our bullpen is being relatively solid, and our starting pitching has been very good. We’ll be fine.
BTW stickguy- happy birthday! mine was yesterday!
One other thing:
I agree, we should not be booing Santana if it did happen (again, I only think it was a small minority)…. nor should we have booed Beltran when he arrived and struggled…nor Piazza when he arrived and struggled, and on and on. It’s stupid. You should only boo if they are not playing hard, or don’t appear to care.
That said, I think the booing over the years is a biproduct of past disappointment and frustration that continues to build up. There was a tension in the stands today that I don’t remember previously. What happened to our famous Mets optimism? Gone with Jose’s dancing and Professor Reyes bits?
Anyway, we shouldn’t be taking out our frustrations on Santana, a guy who wasn’t even here last September. He pitched his butt off today even though he didn’t have his best stuff.
i watched the game so I could not hear all of the boos but it did seem to me that numerous fans (at least the ones behind the dugout) stood and applauded. I think the booing is due to the fact that they came to the game with so much hype (santanas first start at shea) and then they lose, and he pitches poorly and they’re probably somewhat intoxicated and disheartened. that is no excuse, but it does happen, booing always does.
I lived through the 90’s and only boo when there are mental mistakes made, that should never happen at this level. watch the twinkies they are so good fundamentally that even when they lose they are a pleasure to watch, you cannot relay on talent alone. The play that hart scored on bothered me, “a mental error” and I booed my TV. lets go mets, get em tomorrow.
Anyone who booed Johan today is an idiot…
Realistically speaking…what pitcher is gonna put up a W with the kind of anemic offense the Mets have been putting up lately? It’s almost like Santana has to be perfect every time out because the offense hasn’t been scoring for him (outside Opening Day). He must feel like he hasn’t left Minnesota the way we are scoring runs (although he probably knows he’s in NY when the geniuses in the stands start booing…)
This season is still young and we are chasing the Marlins for goodness sake. Relax.
If we dont get Tex and shift Wright to 1st in 09 ..who is out there in FA at 3rd to sign? anyone have a list of FA 3rd basemen?
If we don’t get Tex, then we better get another bat. This offense is pathetic and nobody is afraid of Beltran, Wright, or Delgado in clutch situations.
Third basemen
Casey Blake (35)
Hank Blalock (28) – $6.2MM club option for ‘09 with a $0.25MM buyout
Joe Crede (31)
Morgan Ensberg (33)
Nomar Garciaparra (35)
Wes Helms (33) – $3.75MM club option for ‘09
Chipper Jones (37) – $8-11MM vesting option for ‘09
Dallas McPherson (27)
source:mlbtraderumors.com
and in case you want 1st base:
First basemen
Ben Broussard (32)
Sean Casey (34)
Tony Clark (37)
Carlos Delgado (37) – $16MM mutual option for ‘09 with a $4MM buyout
Nomar Garciaparra (35)
Jason Giambi (38) – $22MM club option for ‘09 with a $5MM buyout
Scott Hatteberg (39)
Eric Hinske (31)
Doug Mientkiewicz (35)
Kevin Millar (37)
Richie Sexson (34)
Mark Teixeira (29
Teix is the only go on either list I would touch.
I believe the earlier discussion was centered on Dan Murphy (AA prospect) being ready. He would take 3B, with DW going to 1B.
Logically, while moving DW to 1B fills one hole, it just opens another one at 3B.
beating the dead horse, Wright could be a great 1B, and very active (like Hernandez was). The reflex and glove would be awesome over there, and less worries about throws, although he could pull a Keith and gun guys down at 3B too.
I really didn’t realize Chipper was 37, for some reason he’s still like 30 in my mind, but really that list isn’t incredibly enticing.
Haha, imagine if we got Chipper. It’d be the Glavine signing all over again.
I personally would like to see Blalock, but there’s no way Texas isn’t picking up that option unless they’ve got a young kid waiting in the wings.
ya know i was at the game and there was a lot of polite applause and cheering Santana when he left the game with a small smattering of boos. i really don’t think it was a big deal. the fact that Santana was asked 2 questions about booing after the game or for SNY to bring it up was idiotic . making something out of nothing. give us a break.
Where is the offense? This team looks like 5-6 hits per game (and no 2 in the same inning) is going to be the norm. We NEED Alou back quick and Castillo really kills us. This team wins when Reyes gets on base, something he’s done terribly thus far. But it woudl be nice to have a #2 hitter that inspires a little confidence. Would Castillo be in the 2 spot on any other teams? Seriously, I want to know.
Based on his career numbers yes Castillo would be a #2 hitter for most teams. His career numbers are prototypical 2-hole numbers.
Any fans in North Jersey (ridgewood) want my 2 Mezz reserved tix for tomorrow. Only $20 for both. 646 242 3678. Also $10 for each ticket to the Nats series next week. Aisle seats, MR 23 Row F.
damn, I’m in wyckoff, but up at school in syracuse. anytime you got tickets available in the summer, take down my email, drello@syr.edu and hit me up, I’ll definitely take them off your hands for you at those prices.
the only issue i saw with santana is the fact that he didnt have a slider or curveball at all today…it was simply either fastball, which ranged from 88-92 mph and a change which ranged from 72-80 mph today…the homers are gonna happen since Citifield is pretty much blocking any wind that used to knock balls back into the stadium before..remember, he only allowed like 4 hits up until the 6th inning…and 2 of them were in the first inning…he was pretty good overall…he will be fine..
yes, i agree, Santana will be fine..
as i stated above, Santana won the Cy Young in 2006. he started the season 1-3.
it’ll be ok
It would be nice if those homers would happen for us too.
As I’ve said in another thread, its probably because he, as well as the other starters, have pitched on one or two extra days rest. It’s no wonder why they haven’t been as sharp as they could be. A bad pitch here and there is going to happen until they start pitching every fifth day and get in a regular routine. So far it hasn’t been all that bad despite this.
I got back from the game a little while ago. I did what I could, as did some others in my section, to drown out the boos with our cheers. Johan Santana is a great athlete, and he is going to be a lot of fun for all of us for years to come. I think he genuinely loves what he does, but I don’t think he realized he was going to have to be perfect for some people when he got here.
I read this blog all the time, but I’ve resisted posting here. I’m more of a lurker by nature. But today I felt like I should contribute something.
For anyone who believes that purchasing a ticket gives you the right to boo until you lose your voice: I have a newsflash for you! You are actually correct. As long as you aren’t breaking any laws or doing anything indecent, you can feel free to make a fool of yourself until you are blue in the face.
Better yet, you can save your money by not buying that ticket in the first place. Instead, use that money to travel around and check out the rest of the teams and their aces. When you find the one that looks like it will win 162 games and have an ace win 32-33 games a year, spend your money there and be happy. Good luck with your search.
I wouldn’t boo Santana…
BUT…
the concern is that the Mets gave up a lot to get him, they are paying him ungodly amounts of money. They NEED this guy to live up to his contract. He has to be a #1/ace/elite NL pitcher, or else this team is dead. He doesn’t have much of a margin of error. If he ends up with a 3.50+ ERA, then he will be a huge bust.
Santana gave up 33 HR in 2007, his next highest total was 24. That’s concerning.
Today, he gives up 3 bombs, including one to Gabe Kapler, who was out of baseball last year.
So yeah, it is cause to be wary.
Johan seems like a good guy, I think he’ll be ok, but the Mets aren’t paying him to have too many outings like the one today. They’ve already wasted too much money on Pedro, Johan can’t be a waste too.
you realize you sound like you’re freaking out over one game right? Did you expect Johan to go the entire year, the entire contract? without giving up 5 runs (4 earned) in 7 innings of work? Did you think that wouldn’t happen? Do you think it will only happen once? i don’t care who you are, Sandy Koufax, Pedro Martinez, Tom Seaver, Johan Santana, you’re going to have games like today.
Big money = Big expectations.
As nrmax88 said earlier, if he wanted polite applause every start, he could have pitched for the Twins.
Apparently, players like the money in NY, but not the expectations. You can’t have it both ways, sorry.
when did santana say he doesn’t like the expectations? and anyone who watches baseball other than the mets knows santana can be hit on occasion and knows he’s had bad aprils in the past. also, he shouldn’t have still been in the game to give up a 3rd homer. Wright’s errors made him throw too many pitches. Santana is going to have some games like today. And so will Peavy and Webb and Beckett and Sabathia, etc, etc.
what are you talking about? seriously, read what I said, read what you said, and tell me, what are you talking about? Do you think Santana doesn’t have big expectations for himself? He’s been the best pitcher in the league for the past 5 years, you think he wants to relinquish that? The thing you’re missing, is that even the best pitchers, the greatest of all time, have bad games. Deal with it. It has nothing to do with expectations. Santana hasn’t said expectations are too high. It’s when fans are stupid enough to believe that even the best pitchers won’t have a bad game (4 earned in 7 innings bad, wow thats horrible….) that things get ridiculous. I mean, you’re making it out like Santana doesn’t want to be great for us. I’m guessing he does. But when fans think a player won’t have a bad game, all I can say is, that’s idiotic and has nothing to do with expectations. You naive if you think he wouldn’t have a bad game.
Did anybody else just see what happened with the end of the Yankees / Sox game??? 3-2, 2 outs, top of the 9th, Papelbon facing Cano, and just before the pitch they switch to NASCAR!!! oh my god, Fox, oh my god.
They then told you to switch to FX (wherever the hell that is) to see the rest of the game, but oh my, if they pulled that kinda crap during a Mets game, I can’t even imagine to explain how pissed I’d be. I mean, I was still pissed just for baseball’s sake, and the Mets weren’t even playing. Wow, way to go, Fox.
Mushnick Raissman are licking their chops right now.
Bottom line is that anyone getting on Santana is an utter fool. Hes pitched 3 freakin games, 2 of which were GREAT and then he pitches an OK game today and people are already questioning the trade. Unreal. Be prepared to eat crow when he’s rattling off dominant starts in the 2nd half. I love New York fans’ passion, but it often gets ridiculous especially in the comments section on this blog. We are 10 games into this season, people. Calm the hell down. They are 5-5 and are ahead of PHI and ATL. On this board, you’d think they were 0-10
He had a bad day. I remember another one of his THREE starts where he had a pretty good one and the team let him down. These things happen. They STOLE Santana. The only reason we even have him is because we were the only ones who were really serious about getting a deal done.
He is our ace. He is going to be here for a LONG time. We are going to have so many great moments with Johan Santana on this team that in time everyone will have a very hard time remembering that one start back on 4/12/08.
I’ll admit it ,i was one of the many who booed Beltran relentlessly in 2005 and yes at Opening Day 06. With his MVP like 2006 season he shut me up.
I was there today and did not boo Santana. The way I look at it he’s my guy and I stick with him like I probably should have done with Beltran. Plus, come on this was only one game. It’s not like he’s Barry Zito or something.
If he had a bad day, then he should say he had a bad day, instead of saying that fans are booing because the Mets have been historically lousy. :-)
he didn’t have that bad of a day. if i were him i wouldn’t say it either.
wow……
i don’t even know what to say to your post…. its just not intelligent
that was to johnblacksox and apparently him being a fairweather fan and not realizing today really wasn’t TAHT bad a day….relax
To Jimyager,
A synopsis of your post, if I may:
You say you “I have paid for the right to BOO if I choose to,” but noone is putting a gun to your head and saying ROOT FOR THE METS. Every Mets fan, loves the Mets, and roots for them because of that love, not because of how many jersies you have, how much money you’ve paid for parking .. the list goes on. Secondly, fans boo because … who knows … people do what they want. Third, you aren’t on the Mets; “we have NOT won since 1986 and we want it bad.” Get with it man, the METS have NOT won since 1986. Don’t you think those players know that? Don’t you think they want it bad? If you want it so bad … keep rooting for your team and stop booing them. “We made it all the way to game 7 in 2006. Since then we have stunk,” yes my friend, Game 7 of the NLCS. Sine then? for 145 games last year the Mets were 7 games better than the Phillies – then they went cold, in other parts of the country teams like the Rockies were getting hot at the right time. The Mets have always stunk .. but you still root for them, everyone does, because you love the team. I stress YOU and the TEAM, because I think you get confused, you aren’t on the METS! …
IMO, most bpeole boo excessively because they crank down too many $8 aluminum bottles of Bud.
stickguy – agreed. And I will be doing just that at tomorrow afternoon’s rubber match.
That is … downing those $8 aluminum bottles of Bud heavy like it’s 1986. I’ll leave the booing to those who don’t have a clue.
I am going to begin my post by saying that I am against booing any member of the Mets for any reason at all. I just don’t think that there is any really good reason for a Met fan to boo their own guys.
That being said, I do think that players who let this type of behavior from a relatively small contingent of fans get under their skin need to take a step back and look at the bigger picture.
If you are Johan Santana, for example, and you walked off the mound today and actually heard boos from people in the stands, and it really bothered you, then you need to grow some thicker skin. I mean you have a nice day, dudes are out at the park with their pals, they’ve been drinking in the parking lot for a couple of hours before the gates opened, they’ve been drinking some more in the stadium, they paid an arm and a leg just to be there today…
Who cares? I am fairly certain that the booing bothered more fans than it did players, but if there are any players who can’t handle hearing it a little bit when they have a bad day then I think that there is an argument to be made that those athletes need to think about who it is that is footing the bill for the contract they signed.
This whole booing conversation is just stupid to me. The Met fans who boo the Mets are a minority. They are most likely the ones who go to maybe 1 or 2 games a season. If the team tanks in the only game that they are going to be at then they are going to boo. Let them have their say, what does it matter? If some players are so soft that they can’t handle hearing it a little bit here and there, then they shouldn’t really be here in the first place.
I agree. I feel any professional athlete needs to have thick skin. I mean come on, think of some of the things you might have said to a ballplayer one time or another in your life.
See … Santana saying something about the booing comes off to me as this: Look, the guy is a money pitcher (for obvious reason – literally and figuratively) … He wants to win. Let’s face it, he got beat today by the home run ball (which more than anything in baseball for a pitcher is probably the biggest slap in the face). As he handed the ball of to Mr. Randolph in the seventh with two outs, Santana was certainly not happy. Not happy with 1. being taken out, and 2. That he didn’t pitch better than his counterpart (Ben Sheets). …
Relate this to your life. If you got a flat tire, or a parking ticket, it sucks. You say to yourself “damn … that sucks.” Am I right? Well, you wouldn’t want to hear your pal in the passenger seat respond to your displeasure with, “Man — a ticket — that blows”. Get my drift. I am sure the last thing Santana wanted to hear after the outing he had today was boos from a bunch of punk fans.
They guy, whether we like to think so or not, and every other ballplayer for that matter, are just men. They are just men, who are really good at baseball.
He could’ve handled it differently, sure. But he said what he said, and that “minority” of Mets fans – as long as the team doesn’t play perfect every night – will continue to boo. It’s a shame.
The reason that there has been such an influx of rude, unintelligent visitors to this site is because it is now being advertised on television! Talk about hitting the big time!
I was watching the game with my brother-in-law this afternoon when Gary Cohen read the MetsBlog.com ad. He asks me if I’ve ever been to the site because it’s really cool.
Have I ever been there?!
If he only knew me by my MetsBlog alter-ego, we’d probably throw down!
And if you’re reading this now Curt, you smell funny. Come and get me!
Santana, on being booed by Mets “fans”:
“That’s the history that they got from not being so good, I guess.”
As a Phillies fan, perhaps, “history of being bad” isn’t the best strategy for you to employ in mocking the Mets.
Hey, he said it, I didn’t.
I never pretended my team has a glorious winning history, I leave that to you folks.
(By the by, Phils have a better record than Mets since 1962 when they both, you know, existed.)
Since 1962, the Phillies have had exactly 3 players that I can personally say I’d have liked to have on my team. Schmidt, Carlton, and Howard. That is it. I didn’t even want Wagner.
That being said, I have historically looked at the Phillies and their annual collection of trash and wondered how anyone could be a Phillie fan and still feel good about themselves.
You point out that the Phils have a better record than the Mets since 1962. I ask you how it feels to know that since that time nobody has ever really taken them seriously, even when they were good?
Having fans of a team historically worse than mine say they don’t take my team seriously doesn’t really hurt as much as you’d like it to.
You wouldn’t take Chase Utley on your team?
Cole Hamels?
Oh, right, they’re trash-good insight, nice logic there.
And, as I said, it’s your fans that pretend that they have some glorious history, and then you go do it again.
OK, this could prove mildly entertaining.
The fact that you’ve even responded to my post shows me that it hurt as much as I suspected it would.
Hamels, I’d take. You got me on that one. He hasn’t been with the Phillies long enough to start acting like an inbred fool yet.
Utley, you could keep. I see his face and I think he just looks like a Phillie. Plus, he’s going to eventually get his elbow shattered if he keeps standing on home plate when he hits.
And my logic is my logic. It makes sense to me. I hate your team. I have no respect for them. What is it exactly that you expected to hear me say?
I am not quite sure what you are talking about when you say “And, as I said, it’s your fans that pretend that they have some glorious history, and then you go do it again.”, but do not be mistaken in thinking I don’t know what the history of team is.
It’s just that when I look at my team on a year to year basis and compare it to yours, I find that there are far more years where the Phillie teams had exactly zero redeeming qualities. I can’t find too many Met teams that I can say that about.
And why are you here?
i’m more worried about the declining velocity than anything else.
santana was topping out at around 89 today, i think he might’ve hit 90 once.
anyone else concerned?
Before you freak out about this, you have to consider the following…
1) The Shea Stadium radar gun tends to be a little slow. I’ll grant that I’ve only been to Tiger Stadium, Comerica Park, and PNC Park aside from Shea, but the radar guns seemed much “hotter.” For example, at the game at PNC Park, Pirates starter Paul Maholm was throwing 92 mph. Just a few starts later, Maholm is pitching at Shea. Now he’s registering 88-89 mph. My Dad’s best friend, a Braves fan, claims the gun at Turner Field is also “hot.”
2) This is the first time since that one game last year where Johan shut the Mets out where he’s actually registering on the gun at all. Remember, both of his prior starts were on the road, in Florida and Atlanta.
3) Sometimes pitchers just don’t have it. I know that comes across as excruiatingly vague, but believe me, it’s true. Look at Perez and Maine. Remember Maine’s second to last Spring Training start where he was hitting 88 mph? Or Perez literally having 5 mph disparities inbetween starts? It happens.
4) He did not “maybe hit 90 once.” He topped off at 93 mph and was usually hitting 89 and 90. This, to me, is a sign of a pitcher who is not in his comfort zone (which can *literally* be determined by such things as the weather [more specifically temperature and even barometric pressure] or if he slept on his pitching arm) rather than a guy who is about to come undone. In that case, you would see severe and dramatic velocity loss…8-10 mph in some circumstances…accompanied by virtually no pitch movement and an abbreviated stride.
I really wouldn’t read too much into what Santana said either. I don’t want to sound like an apologist, but I don’t think it was a big deal. To me it sounded more like he understood that there are fans who are frustrated, but it doesn’t really bother him either way. I just watched it and based on the rest of the context, that’s what I got from it. He said Sheets pitched better than he did today, and that his pitches didn’t do what they were supposed to do.
Last year everyone complained that nobody was taking accountability or addressing the media other than a select few. Today Santana was front and center with all of his comments. Really, what did he say that isn’t factually correct? There have been plenty of disappointments and frustrations in our history. Makes it all the more confusing when I see people get so upset over one bad start. And of course, the same people who were booing him today will be giving him a standing ovation when he makes his next start. He knows that too. Johan Santana goes about his business quietly, and I don’t think any of this is going to effect him one way or the other.
santana didn’t pitch well today. obviously. i’m a little embarassed that he was booed by mets fans. no, i’m very embarassed. what’s happened to this fans base? it’s not like it was his fault last year. geez.
As Met fans we gotta remember that we don’t have a long history of championships or a great lore or tradition. The one tradition that we do have is that of being eeh or just down right bad. There have been stretches where that wasn’t the case but for the most part we haven’t been great. In roughly 46 years we’ve had 7 playoff experiences. True the first 7 years we were a new franchise and a new one in the 60s at that. It typically took longer to become respectable, but yet the franchise overcame many obstacles and with a lil luck were world champs!! So even then we’ve been anything but stellar.
As a group I think Met fans have become envious (and right so) of the Yankees making the playoffs every year since 1995 (would’ve been ‘94 but for the strike). Thats an awfully long time. Heck Jeter doesn’t know what it feels like not to do anything in October. But the point is, we haven’t reached that level where we should boo our star players because they haven’t lived up to epic expectations. That doesn’t mean cheer for them like panzies when they screw up but don’t get on their case if they go through bad stretches or have an off year. We’re all entitled to that. So lets especially not boo anyone on April unless is egregious. I still remember booing Beltran in Game One of 2006. That was as classless as i’ve seen this city. Please, you spent money on your ticket and you’re allowed to do as you please, but as Mets fans lets be a bit more supportive of what we have. This is our team. The second we undeservedly boo them we distance ourselves from the franchise.
To this day I still feel like i’m closer to the franchise on a human level than a Yankee fan is to his team. Lets keep it that way. Lets be civil and be true New Yorkers and show some class! The Mets are our team!
Lets go Mets!
- sorry to be sappy but it had to be said
i have a belly button.
sorry just needed to lighten the mood.
Santana’s April of 2004: 1-0 with a 5.40 ERA and 5 HR in 5 starts.
Santana’s 2005 season: 20-6 with a 2.61 ERA
Santana’s April of 2006: 1-3 with a 4.45 ERA and 4 HR in 5 starts
Santana’s 2006 season: 19-6 with a 2.77 ERA
Santana’s April of 2007: 2-3 with a 3.60 ERA and 6 HR in 6 starts
Santana’s 2007 season: 15-13 with a 3.33 ERA
Santana this year: 1-2 with a 3.05 ERA and 4 HR in 3 starts
I shudder to think what some “fans” reactions would be if he got off to a start like he did in 2005 or 2006. He actually had a decent April in 2005 (though not as good as the rest of his year) but the point is this guy doesn’t normally get off to good starts, plain and simple and still finishes with great numbers. Despite this so far this year, he clearly hasn’t had his best stuff and still had 2 great starts and was one out away from going 7 innings with 2 earned runs today.
If he has one of his typical poor April starts in Philly next week and gets a loss, what then? Will people boo him before he even takes his the mound for his next start at Shea?
I think the posters who say that many people who go to games don’t have a clue about how baseball works have it right on. They feel as if they are entitled to whatever they want just for showing up. I couldn’t believe I actually read from someone on here “with 2 losses and 1 win he has not shown us that he is the pitcher we thought we where getting.” Are you serious? We are lucky enough to have the best pitcher in baseball on our favorite team and you are ready to give up on him after 3 starts, two of which he went 7 innings (longer than any other starter this year) and gave up 2 runs or less?
I was at the game today and I was shocked and a bit embarrassed at the amount of people booing. It wasn’t everyone, and maybe not even the majority, but it was clearly audible and totally unwarranted.
I’m sorry that I am ranting on here, I know it’s late and no one will likely read this anyway. I was just worried about this happening before the season started knowing his history of bad starts to seasons and now that he has gotten off to a relatively good start for him and it is still happening just blows my mind. He is still very likely to put up a 17-22 win year with a sub 3 ERA. I personally can’t wait to see him pitch with his best stuff and not have to “fight his way through” 7 innings and 2 runs.
I came on here to post something akin to what you’ve just posted. I could NOT have said it better myself. Kudos!
amen bro, you got it right on
First day of my Saturday plan at Shea…and our new neighbors to the left were yelling “BLOW-HAN.” Worse than booing. Long season to go, I guess.
throw something at them.
You guys have it all wrong. At the same time Johan was walking off, Guillermo Mota got up to stretch in the Brewers’ pen.
I say BOOOOOOOO the booing conversation. People have a right to do what they like within the park rules, and this includes doing really dumb things like booing the best pitcher in baseball. Johan didn’t say anything wrong – Shea is a lot uglier place since mid September and the booing is the least of it. But he does need to realize that he’s only hearing – or hearing about – a tiny minority. Best thing the rest of us can do is get up and drown them with cheers, even if you have to force it.
NY Post blog stole the Jose Reyes Red Cross.
Ben Sheets was just on today….I’m surprised we even got 3 runs off him.
Anyone else almost ready to breath a sigh of relief for Delgado? He’s lookin’ good so far, and hes been crushing the ball
alright we have some people obviously on crack
Did’nt Wright win the Gold Glove?……….so he had a bad game. Sucks but it’s a game………….To think he will move from 3rd is hillarous
maybe in 5 yrs when he’s approaching 30
Let the season play out.booing Santana is just dumb………Castillo may be a bad contract but give him a chance………he will bat close to .300 by the end of the yr
Delgado is doign real well at first so far…….next yr is well next yr
I think there’s a general consensus that the gold glove is more of a popularity contest than a measure of fielding ability. It’s like the pro-bowl in the NFL. Wright has no problems fielding, but his arm is a bit wild. Moving him to first would help cut down on the errors since the throws wouldn’t be as long. It’s definitely not laughable.
I was there and, while I’m by no means an avid booer (god knows we have enough borderline subhuman fans, as evidenced by the ride back to penn on the long island rail), i couldn’t help but let willie have it for leaving johan in after the four-pitch walk to hall. i’m sure at least some portion of that mixed reaction was directed towards the manager, not the star pitcher, who got SICK ovations on his way to and from the pen before the game even started, not to mention after every K.
Booing players? Who are we?
Yes, if Mo Vaughn was up, I’d boo him. Kaz Matsui when he hit .230? BOO BOO BOO. Guillermo Mota? Boo him a thousand times over. But Johan Santana in his first game at Shea? I’m starting to really get tired of Mets fans.
Booing Santana has to be the dumbest thing people can do! It’s the same people that think the Mets should go 162-0! Santana is not going to win every start and is going to have games where he gives up home runs! Every great pitcher who ever played the game has given up home runs and lost games. Can they name a better picther the Mets should have than Santana? He is the best young starting pitcher in the game! Santana can’t control the offense. He should be 2-1 and not 1-2. A lot more games to play this year, so stop booing one of the best players we have on the team!
Santana does not deserve to be booed Just because he had a bad game. Hes human, not a robot. hes not perfect. and a response to wright playing second. D Wright is our third basemen. Hes great at it. hes a good hitter. sure hes had some errors considering 21 errors last season but he still won a gold glove. As for first ive always been for getting mark teixiera and if i dont recall he has made a few remarks of prefering mets over yankees since no contract negotiations have been occuring between him and the braves. For second base, i love you luis castillo but i think we ought to bench him for a while because he really isnt improving since the season started. I think we ought to try pagan at second. Hes fast, hes tall. He hits well. Pagan is perfect for the job. and it also solves the problem in left field when alou comes back. We can keep alou there until our top prospect Fernando Martinez is ready to take over… Any opinions?
there are WAY too many of those at shea