Comments on: Note: post-Alou Pagan http://www.metsblog.com/2008/04/15/note-post-alou-pagan/ MetsBlog.com features the latest Mets rumors, player movement, and news circulating around the Internet, as well as Mets related insights and opinions by Matthew Cerrone and his team of guest bloggers. Sun, 22 Nov 2009 06:15:16 -0500 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6 hourly 1 By: Nick Schneider http://www.metsblog.com/2008/04/15/note-post-alou-pagan/#comment-144619 Nick Schneider Thu, 24 Apr 2008 02:42:53 +0000 http://www.metsblog.com/2008/04/15/note-post-alou-pagan/#comment-144619 the reason Willie keeps down playing Pagan is because he doesnt want the public to think that a young gifted player can just steal the role of an established veteran...What if Reyes got seriously hurt and Anderson Hernandez was hot in replacing him would you want him to replace Reyes? On the other hand i think Pagan is swinging a hot bat and until he slumps down should maybe move around the outfield in a platoon job involving him and the three other outfielders. the reason Willie keeps down playing Pagan is because he doesnt want the public to think that a young gifted player can just steal the role of an established veteran…What if Reyes got seriously hurt and Anderson Hernandez was hot in replacing him would you want him to replace Reyes? On the other hand i think Pagan is swinging a hot bat and until he slumps down should maybe move around the outfield in a platoon job involving him and the three other outfielders.

]]> By: 4JoeOrsulak http://www.metsblog.com/2008/04/15/note-post-alou-pagan/#comment-135820 4JoeOrsulak Tue, 15 Apr 2008 22:46:33 +0000 http://www.metsblog.com/2008/04/15/note-post-alou-pagan/#comment-135820 1. Pagan is still young, he is at the point where it is not out of the realm of possibility that he is improving. 2. I do not think Pagan will keep up this torrid streak, but it is possible that he has matured into an above-average major leaguer who should see playing time. 3. Willie should not have downplayed Pagan's success. Even if his BABIP were .460 and even if Willie knew what BABIP was, Willie should not dismiss everything he has done and should have assured him that he would find a way to give him his at-bats. 4. Of course Alou starts over Pagan. But Willie should have emphasized the role Pagan would have rather than the one he would not have, the things he could do rather than the things he could not do. If this were an isolated incident, I would have let it slide, but it is a pattern with Willie that has hurt the team and hurt its young players, and I for one, am sick of it. 1. Pagan is still young, he is at the point where it is not out of the realm of possibility that he is improving.

2. I do not think Pagan will keep up this torrid streak, but it is possible that he has matured into an above-average major leaguer who should see playing time.

3. Willie should not have downplayed Pagan’s success. Even if his BABIP were .460 and even if Willie knew what BABIP was, Willie should not dismiss everything he has done and should have assured him that he would find a way to give him his at-bats.

4. Of course Alou starts over Pagan. But Willie should have emphasized the role Pagan would have rather than the one he would not have, the things he could do rather than the things he could not do. If this were an isolated incident, I would have let it slide, but it is a pattern with Willie that has hurt the team and hurt its young players, and I for one, am sick of it.

]]> By: 4JoeOrsulak http://www.metsblog.com/2008/04/15/note-post-alou-pagan/#comment-135819 4JoeOrsulak Tue, 15 Apr 2008 22:40:05 +0000 http://www.metsblog.com/2008/04/15/note-post-alou-pagan/#comment-135819 What is that .285 .444 in <i>2 games?</i> You are making my point for me. If the best Castillo can do in any consecutive 3 game period is .285/.444/.315, it indicates that his average should be about .180 and his O.B.P. .260 or thereabouts. Even I don't think Castillo is that bad. But Lastings Milledge, for example, on his best 3 consecutive days thus far is a .415/.450/.583 hitter, <i>and he's been struggling</i>. David Wright on his best 4 consecutive days is hitting .415/.550/<i>.940</i>. Castillo used to be a good old-school no. 2 hitter. He is not anymore. It is far more valuable to have someone who can have a chance of driving Reyes in himself, or hit a double in case Reyes does not get on base, than someone whose only purpose is to let Reyes steal a base or push him over on a ground ball to the right side. Any college player could do those things. Hell, <i>I</i> could do those things to a point. Am I an ideal no. 2 MLB hitter? What is that .285 .444 in 2 games?

You are making my point for me. If the best Castillo can do in any consecutive 3 game period is .285/.444/.315, it indicates that his average should be about .180 and his O.B.P. .260 or thereabouts. Even I don’t think Castillo is that bad. But Lastings Milledge, for example, on his best 3 consecutive days thus far is a .415/.450/.583 hitter, and he’s been struggling. David Wright on his best 4 consecutive days is hitting .415/.550/.940.

Castillo used to be a good old-school no. 2 hitter. He is not anymore. It is far more valuable to have someone who can have a chance of driving Reyes in himself, or hit a double in case Reyes does not get on base, than someone whose only purpose is to let Reyes steal a base or push him over on a ground ball to the right side. Any college player could do those things. Hell, I could do those things to a point. Am I an ideal no. 2 MLB hitter?

]]> By: 4JoeOrsulak http://www.metsblog.com/2008/04/15/note-post-alou-pagan/#comment-135818 4JoeOrsulak Tue, 15 Apr 2008 22:23:28 +0000 http://www.metsblog.com/2008/04/15/note-post-alou-pagan/#comment-135818 I'm with fanbunker. I don't think its a coincidence that we won all three games that Castillo missed. It's not that Castillo is valueless; that would be far too generous an estimation of Castillo's utility. Castillo has great value to any team the Mets are playing. He is a near-automatic out from the left side. Let's see how long Castillo has to bat .200/.280/.230 for Willie to get him out of the 2nd spot in the order. I’m with fanbunker.

I don’t think its a coincidence that we won all three games that Castillo missed.

It’s not that Castillo is valueless; that would be far too generous an estimation of Castillo’s utility. Castillo has great value to any team the Mets are playing. He is a near-automatic out from the left side.

Let’s see how long Castillo has to bat .200/.280/.230
for Willie to get him out of the 2nd spot in the order.

]]> By: 4JoeOrsulak http://www.metsblog.com/2008/04/15/note-post-alou-pagan/#comment-135817 4JoeOrsulak Tue, 15 Apr 2008 22:18:11 +0000 http://www.metsblog.com/2008/04/15/note-post-alou-pagan/#comment-135817 It's an issue because Willie should have said what you are saying. Willie is about to do to Pagan what he did to Gotay, Milledge, and Keppinger, and what he is about to do with Feliciano and Pelfrey. He hangs players out to dry for no reason. He emphasizes the flaws of his younger players and downplays their virtues. I used to be fine with Willie as a manager, then I knew better, and felt conflicted because while acknowledging that he is a horrible in-game manager, I thought he was good with his players. Then I realized that he is also terrible with his players and felt conflicted because I felt he was a decent human being. I can't say whether or not Willie is or is not a decent human being; I don't know him. From what I can tell, however, given his treatment of Gotay--particularly when he was cut-- Milledge, and now Pagan, he seems to be a jerk. Get rid of him yesterday, please. It’s an issue because Willie should have said what you are saying. Willie is about to do to Pagan what he did to Gotay, Milledge, and Keppinger, and what he is about to do with Feliciano and Pelfrey. He hangs players out to dry for no reason. He emphasizes the flaws of his younger players and downplays their virtues.

I used to be fine with Willie as a manager, then I knew better, and felt conflicted because while acknowledging that he is a horrible in-game manager, I thought he was good with his players. Then I realized that he is also terrible with his players and felt conflicted because I felt he was a decent human being.

I can’t say whether or not Willie is or is not a decent human being; I don’t know him. From what I can tell, however, given his treatment of Gotay–particularly when he was cut– Milledge, and now Pagan, he seems to be a jerk.

Get rid of him yesterday, please.

]]> By: MetLifer http://www.metsblog.com/2008/04/15/note-post-alou-pagan/#comment-135815 MetLifer Tue, 15 Apr 2008 22:02:01 +0000 http://www.metsblog.com/2008/04/15/note-post-alou-pagan/#comment-135815 Guys. Get a reality check! Yes... Pagan had an awesome spring and an awesome start, but you're not going to sit Alou when he's been an awesome player when healthy even at 40. On the other hand... nothing in Pagan's minor league career suggests he will keep this up. When he's been doing this for a year or 2 then, I'll be a believer... Until then.. enjoy the ride! Guys. Get a reality check! Yes… Pagan had an awesome spring and an awesome start, but you’re not going to sit Alou when he’s been an awesome player when healthy even at 40. On the other hand… nothing in Pagan’s minor league career suggests he will keep this up. When he’s been doing this for a year or 2 then, I’ll be a believer… Until then.. enjoy the ride!

]]> By: MetLifer http://www.metsblog.com/2008/04/15/note-post-alou-pagan/#comment-135814 MetLifer Tue, 15 Apr 2008 21:58:41 +0000 http://www.metsblog.com/2008/04/15/note-post-alou-pagan/#comment-135814 Like someone else mentioned. Alou is not going to learn 1B for the first time in his career at age 40! Like someone else mentioned. Alou is not going to learn 1B for the first time in his career at age 40!

]]> By: napes22 http://www.metsblog.com/2008/04/15/note-post-alou-pagan/#comment-135544 napes22 Tue, 15 Apr 2008 15:19:29 +0000 http://www.metsblog.com/2008/04/15/note-post-alou-pagan/#comment-135544 Agreed, and the last thing we need is a collision at 1B or him ruining his hamstring performing a stretch. While Delgado does have mental lapses and occasionally explodes in a bad way, he isn't a completely terrible 1B...I mean, we could have worse. Agreed, and the last thing we need is a collision at 1B or him ruining his hamstring performing a stretch. While Delgado does have mental lapses and occasionally explodes in a bad way, he isn’t a completely terrible 1B…I mean, we could have worse.

]]> By: Another Matt http://www.metsblog.com/2008/04/15/note-post-alou-pagan/#comment-135539 Another Matt Tue, 15 Apr 2008 15:15:56 +0000 http://www.metsblog.com/2008/04/15/note-post-alou-pagan/#comment-135539 So do I... Nady was traded because the team had an urgent need for a late-inning reliever after the taxi crash. So do I… Nady was traded because the team had an urgent need for a late-inning reliever after the taxi crash.

]]> By: altru426 http://www.metsblog.com/2008/04/15/note-post-alou-pagan/#comment-135532 altru426 Tue, 15 Apr 2008 15:07:46 +0000 http://www.metsblog.com/2008/04/15/note-post-alou-pagan/#comment-135532 I wonder what he going to do when we have a rookie in LF next year and probably a rookie at 1B next year too. It's the managers job to praise his players when they do well, not down play their success. I don't understand why he does that, it's no different in a boss for a company, you don't want your boss to downplay your hard work, you want to be praised. I just don't get it... I wonder what he going to do when we have a rookie in LF next year and probably a rookie at 1B next year too. It’s the managers job to praise his players when they do well, not down play their success. I don’t understand why he does that, it’s no different in a boss for a company, you don’t want your boss to downplay your hard work, you want to be praised. I just don’t get it…

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