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…i’m loving this story about Carlos Beltran re-inspiring Jose Reyes to return to being Jose Reyes…
…i hear fans and read reports that often suggest how the Mets lack leadership…but, beltran’s decision and way of speaking with reyes is leadership…so is Billy Wagner walking through the locker room, patting Aaron Heilman on the back, not saying a word, but letting him know it will all turn around, don’t give up…that’s leadership…and when jose gets on base, steals second, scores on a single, claps, smiles, dances and excites the fans and dugout, he’s leading the team as well…these are all different variations of leadership…
…i think what fans and reporters often mean to say is that the Mets lack a rah-rah, chearleading type of leader, which may be true…these are the same criticisms launched against Willie Randolph, which state that he is not ‘firey’ enough…you know, like Jim Leyland, whose team, by the way, is 5–10…
…i don’t mean to downplay ‘rah-rah,’ because i do feel it is important in certain spots – specifically win-or-go-home situations, or like last September in Shea Stadium…however, rah-rah seems to be the only form of leadership that reporters and fans talk about…i suppose this could be because it is the only form of leadership we can ever really see with our own eyes…i mean, if reyes did not relay the story about beltran, then we’d never have known about it – which would have allowed the popular idea that beltran is not a leader to continue, whether true or not…
In fact Reyes is our Rah Rah leader. Then Wright is our PR leader. Beltran is now our vocal leader. Delgado is still our been there done that leader. Schnieder is doing a good job of leading the pitchers as is Wagner in keeping HIS bullpen ready. We have a team full of leaders it’s just we don’t have a team full of glory hounds.
Nicely put.
THANK YOU.
Delgado been where and done what? He gets bored because he is so good and the game of baseball is so easy. He also is oblivious to what is going on around him. He runs and hides from reporters after bad games. No leader qualities that I can see. Coming into the 16th season of his career he has been to the playoffs once so it isn’t like he is a winner. The Mets win two games and now they are full of leaders, great manager, and superstar players who can do no wrong. Again do not overeact to a couple of games. Beat Philly and then we can talk.
Ok, I am not starting up with you again, but why so negative all the time? How do you know that Delgado is not a leader? All the guys in the clubhouse have said that he is a leader. This stuff about him playing for bad teams and not making it to the playoffs has nothing to do with him being a leader. He put up better numbers than anyone on the Mets in the last 20 years before he came. Now he is in the tail end of his career and starting to make adjustments. I am not saying he is a great leader but I am sure that some players look to him for positives.
Ok let’s just say you are a glass less than half empty kinda guy. Fair enough ;) But as for Delgado, its it not clear that he has adjusted some this sesaon? Wasn’t it also clear that last September when everyone else was slumping he was trying his best hitting over .300 for the month. I am not saying he is the best leader on the team but many do look at him as a leader. The guy has won a few service awards over his career and does a lot in the community. He seems to handle the boos well and is a Willie kinda guy. (I know you hate that part but you do need some of the be patient kinda guys). All in all as I said before we have just as many leaders as any other team, they are just not all the rah rah type.
Besides at what point did I say that we were a great team? I did not even mention the last two games. My point is that we have just as much leadership as anyone else and leadership is not always seen or just the rah rah type. I really don’t get you, just enjoy the fact that we are competitive. You don’t have to think we are the best team ever. We already know that you want an extended winning streak. :)
?? Oh well. I am done with you for now.
No one should be happy with .500 I just don’t see the reason for constant negatives.
Question do you think the Braves and Phillies have better “leaders” than the Mets? Prove it.
people get annoyed because the negativity always comes from you. ive got to hand it to you though……you do get the most responses. are u really matt, trying to generate more comments?
I agree with Amazing86er…. Delgado only talks to reporters after his good games; otherwise, he wants no part of the press…. he needs to do both!
Very true, he is not our PR leader for sure. That is obviously Wright and it looks like Schnieder may be that as well.
Probably because he is 31 years old and catcher’s typically are in decline after 34. But I agree, I already see him as a leader. He’s leading the pitching staff and he’s at his locker after every game fielding questions.
I loved seeing that Jose is back. It adds a certain spark to the team. I never expect Beltran to be a rah-rah guy, but he does have to realize that guys will turn to him for his advice because he is respected. He is a leader, even if its a silent one. Just keep hitting HRs like last night.
i’d rather him not try to hit home runs… but tis all good
I think he was refering to Beltran right?
Yes Beltran. Reyes needs to jsut get on base. Beltran doesn’t have to say a word. He doesn’t even have to smile. Just lead by example and go out an hit.
As goes Reyes as goes the team. Again, I love Reyes but his slump is what caused the Mets offensive slump last season. Maybe now with Beltran taking a leadership role he can keep Reyes out of those prolonged slumps.
“…his slump is what caused the Mets offensive slump last season.” Hold on, my head just exploded and I need to collect the pieces…
Ok I’m ready. There is no way to show/prove/disprove your point, but most people can agree that while good hitting/pitching is infectious, so is bad hitting/pitching. HOWEVER, to say that other hitters only hit well if Reyes is hitting well is borderline insanity. Reyes’ slump sent out bad vibes that crippled Delgado and cause him to strike out twice a game?
Again, I agree that there are impacts on other players when everyone is doing well but don’t say Jose caused the other players to slump. Each player is responsible for his own results. You must write for Newsday or something… I kid I kid….
Delgado hit very well in September, as did Wright. But when Reyes is not getting on we have trouble scoring. Look at the stats.
Fun with small sample size time! (I did these stats quickly so if they’re slightly off feel free to correct them.)
In the Mets 7 wins this season, while outscoring opponents 47-11, here are Reyes’ stats:
BA: .379
OBP: .419
R: 7
RBIs: 5
In the 4 losses in which Reyes played, while being outscored 12-24, here are Reyes’ stats:
BA: .158
OBP: .158
R: 0
RBIs: 2
So while obviously his line is much better in games we win, he isn’t like if he doesn’t score we lose…
Out of our 47 runs, Reyes accounts for 7 of them. Wright had 8 runs scored, and Beltran also had 7.
Take this as you will, as I said small sample size, but my only point is that we have a lot of producers, and it’s unfair to say that if Reyes’ doesn’t produce we’re screwed. Out of the starters, only Castillo and Schneider have scored less runs than Reyes…
True but how many runs has Reyes scored in our loses again?
Do you honestly believe that if Reyes is held to 0 Rs then we automatically lose? I’m not saying that Reyes getting on base isn’t important, but your claim that he caused the offensive slump is unfair. Reyes doesn’t have magical powers to cause other people to do well or not. His positive energy is great, but if it isn’t there everyone else who does poorly gets a free pass?
Place blame where blame is due, and last season there was plenty to go around…
Yes small sample size but it does prove Reyes’ influence. You seem to be saying if he doesn’t score, he’s not producing. In the wins he’s been hitting, getting on base, in the losses, he has not. In the other thread it was debated about his happiness and excitement relating to his hitting. Its when he hits and gets on base that creates his happiness and excitement, not the other way around. Though he may not cause the other players to slump, he does seem to be an infectious influence to their hitting. In other words when he’s hitting, his excitement infects his teammates. Which gets them up and feeling good, which helps in confidence and increased production from them. When he’s not hitting, the joy is not there, and thus that mental boost to his teammates is not there either. So it still comes down to, as Jose goes, so do the Mets.
My issue is with the causality. “…his slump is what caused the Mets offensive slump last season.”
You can argue that if he was hitting, the offensive might not have slumped as long. As you noted, his excitement is infectious. But what you’re saying is if he isn’t excited, the other players don’t have “that mental boost” and thus slump. I disagree. These are grown-@$$-men and this is their job. If they strikeout, it’s because they swung and missed, NOT because Jose wasn’t dancing in the dugout to inspire them…
So in your job when your not feeling well or feeling down your work doesnt slack off a little bit? And when your feeling great you dont end up doing a little more? These are human beings who react mentally and physically to their surroundings just like anybody else. Though it is their job, it’s still a sport and a game that requires a certain mental approach. Look at the pitchers who say they were pumped up because of the excitment of the crowd. Beltran’s first year when he hit horribly at home because of all the booing and negative feelings toward him. People in here complaining because Willie doesn’t fire the team up. They think the team needs the mental boost. Dont get me wrong, I didnt say nor would say that the team would slump because Jose wasn’t excited. All I’m saying is that they play a little better and hit a little more when he’s hitting, having fun, and showing it.
I’ll agree with you here. They don’t play in a vacuum so obviously energy and excitement act as extra motivation. When you’re happy you perform better, is pretty true for anyone in any situation. I just think Jose gets an unfair, disproportionate amount of blame for last season.
This team is fine.
You’d think they’d understand that leadership concept, with how they laud Jeter, who’s not exactly the rah-rah type, in fact he rarely says much of consequence to the media.
I was going to use the Yankees as an example. Who is their leader? Torre sat on the bench expressionless every single night. Jeter has canned answers prepared for every softball question the media throws at him. Posada says nothing. Giambi is a juice head. Come on!!!!! The Mets have better chemistry and better leaders than most other teams. It was evident in 2006 and the beginning of 2007 with the dancing, the handshakes, the swagger and the fun. I think they realize that is who they are. That is what they bring to the table as a team and they are now starting to get back to that. Church and Schneider better lighten up and join in the fun. They look too serious out there. …and Church can hit lefties.
Rah-rah sells papers, that’s why it’s all the media cares about.
David Wright saying the perfect thing every interview is not newsworthy, even though it’s highly confidence-inspiring as a fan.
Beltran helping out struggling players with a little pep-talk in the locker room is not newsworthy (since there were no reporters there), even though the results so far are way more positive than Lo Duca shooting his mouth off to the nearest passing journalist.
great post, and dead on. I was really psyched to read that today…I remember a lot of comments over the winter about this, and many were “yeah, tone it down”, but I think that had to do with our collective hangover. I think we all want to see him go back to being himself, and frak whatever the other teams think.
In reality, what Beltran said to Reyes was to relax. Reyes knows he is the straw that stirs the Mets. That is an awful lot to place on a 23 or 24 year old kid.
Reyes has been pressing for awhile. He has been jumping out in front of balls and swinging early. He has been anxious. He swings early when he does this. That is why he keeps popping up. By telling him to relax and have fun, returns Jose to his game.
The homer last night wasn’t his most impressive hit. The single that he hit a square line drive with was. He squared up on the ball. He stayed back on the ball. He was relaxed.
Anyone could have told Jose to relax. I’m sure it was done time and again. The fact that Beltran said it and it sank in, means a lot. Jose has strong respect for him. He has already established himself as a leader.
The best part about it is, Beltran now seems poised to take on this role. This says he has developed a comfort with playing in New York so that he can now go beyond worrying about just himself. Look for him to step up as a player as well.
I also would bet that you hear a nice ovation for Carlos tonight.
I agree, we have spent so much time arguing about the booers and how that hurts our homefield advantage. Instead of us complaining about it then the majority of us should be louder with our support. I think it goes both ways. We started to expect to win and stopped going nuts when players did well (like in 06) because that was what they were supposed to do.
Actually, I think Reyes thought he was doing harm to the team with his antics, because people got all wrapped up in how their hatred for the Mets made them come out and play hard against them every-time. I think that was put in his head and he was trying to be a good teammate by cutting back on his behavior. What he didn’t anticipate was that his behavior made him play at his highest level. Also, if he wasn’t playing at a high level, then the team suffered way more than if he was just evoking anger from the other team. Good to have you back Jose!
I was thinking about this last night as I was watching the Braves lose again :) The Braves were picked to win the division by many, they have “all the pieces”. Including a firey manager, “leaders” like Chipper with “heart and guts”. Yet look at their record. 5-9
Who has heart and who does not. It’s all about winning guys. The team winning looks like they have heart and guts and are having fun. The team losing looks like the have no heart, quit, no guts and are not having any fun. That’s what’s great about sports no matter the level they want to win because losing sucks.
The Braves added a number 5 pitcher and an outfielder with no pop and an average glove. Meanwhile they lost Andruw who had 100+ RBIs and his glove.
On top of that, Smoltz and Chipper are a year older and this team only was 4 games over .500 last year. Their bullpen was questionable, they had questions in their starting staff and their defense is not that great. I don’t see why they were picked to win the division.
In order to win the division you have to expect to win 93 games or more normally. The Braves aren’t poised to be that much of a better team.
Now if you take the Mets at 89 wins and you add Santana, that 93 plus wins is a lot more approachable.
I completely agree, that is why I couldn’t care less about predictions.
Like the offense, the swagger on this team starts with Reyes.
Matt, you’re spot on with this one. And I think your comments can extend to how the fans and media perceive Carlos Delgado. I’m as frustrated as any Mets fan about his lack of production since 2006, but I can’t buy into the criticism over his comments to the media. The other day Kevin Kernan ripped him for seeming aloof and unbothered by the Brewers series. But – as you suggest, Matt – there is a major difference between what goes on in the dugout, behind closed doors, and even inside a player’s mind, and what the player relays to the media. Just because Delgado tells the media he’s not bothered by a bad loss doesn’t mean it’s not eating him up inside, or that he’s not going to do everything in his power to make it right. There is no requirement that players and coaches be completely honest and forthcoming with the media – don’t put too much stock into what they say.
Jim Leyland has a winning track record and a WS Championship…Tough to compare the two at this stage of Willie’s managing career.
Matt I believe you are wrong in your assessment of the fans and media looking for rah-rah type leaders. I myself am looking for the so called veterans on the team to lead by example and show the younger guys the way the game is played, how to handle tough loses and move on, work your way through slumps and so on. The 86 Mets were rah-rah and world beaters and did not care if they were liked or not and that is what I loved about them. This group is passive and definately not rah-rah which they do not need to be to win but it would be nice to see some fire.
Not with you on this one. Jose and other young ones will need to learn this on their own. It may take leadership to bring them out of the slump. But after time, the more they learn, the better they are. I don’t think its the leaders place to teach the kids this stuff. They need to learn it on their own. Its a natural process.
For example, Wright started out poorly last year. He was in a hard slump. He started going into that same slump last week and quickly snapped out of it. That is because he learned from it.
We should expect young players to go through prolonged slumps. Its only natural. We only hope they come out of it.
Fire doesnt always have to be on the camera. Leadership comes in many forms. Acting a certain way that is not your way is considered fake and will be perceived as fake in the clubhouse and around the game. A little fire in the dugout is nice to see and it’s appeasing to us fans….especially ‘86 fans. Backman and Dykstra are not on this team. We’ve got Carlos and Carlos, Willie and Billy, and Wright and Reyes.
ps…….two in a row baby 86er……yea get excited and throw a parade
another ps……enough with the kool-aid comments
be a fan and enjoy it
u sound like a critic…..my goodness u are a joykill
Right, we prefer to be called by our legal name “sunshiners”.
I don’t get the need for labeling anyone supporting their team. I thought that was what fan stood for. Someone who supports their team?
It does not mean they are blinded by the good or anything else. It just means they want their team to win but will support it either way.
nerd alert:
according to ken burns’ Baseball, the term “fan” derives from “fanatic” or “fancier”. I suppose a fanatic could go either way: all positive or all negative. A “fancier” sounds a little too effete for anyone to want to label themselves that, but suggests a detachment allowing for objective thought.
end nerd alert.
I like seeing the respect Jose has for Beltran, it clearly finally sank in and it’s great to see Reyes smiling and having fun again.
My only question with Beltran, and I know it’s early, but if he is hitting the ball so much better from the right side why does he feel he must bat from the left side when a righty gets on the hill? I would just continue batting righty and do what is working. It’s kinda like when a manager switches a pitcher after looking great but now a right/lefty comes up and manager X brings in someone else to face him and it not working as statistics say it must
I don’t think you’d see him approach his career batting-as-lefty split facing RHP as a righty.
So, he’s completely correct to keep swinging lefty until he gets into a groove from that side too.
He took a little longer to get the lefty swing down last year too.
can someone lead beltran to a doctor’s office to get that mole chopped of of the side of his head?
Is that a joke? If so, it’s pretty lame and tired by now. If not, it’s the kind of superficial brainless comment that comes from those who would boo Santana after his first Shea start.
I wish someone would lead the chronic boo birds to a lunatic asylum to have their brains and attitudes modified with electro shock therapy.
Harsh freedie, harsh. Beltran used to remind me of what Piazza was like for the Mets: great player but not a fiery guy. However, even after this, I still would not call Beltran the leader of this team. Wagner also can’t be a leader since he is a closer.
The people who fit into this category are Wright and Pedro (when he’s here). Wright is our Derek Jeter and Pedro is a sort of Schilling (make crazy remarks and have a great swagger).
I’m not saying that Beltran shouldn’t raise his voice but I wouldn’t consider him our leader just because of this.
Why do we need to have players who fit into some kind of pre-conceived cookie cutter role? It’s total BS.
“Beltran used to remind me of what Piazza was like for the Mets: great player but not a fiery guy. However, even after this, I still would not call Beltran the leader of this team.”
Why not? This is a mostly Latin and veteran team. Wright and Reyes are only 24 years old. Are they really going to be getting in Delgado’s face? Beltran is the perfect leader for this team. He can bridge the gap between the younger players and the older players, as he has the respect of both. The guy is a superstar who plays the game the right way. But he also isn’t a stick in the mud. Remember when he refused the curtain call? The guy has some attitude. Don’t mistake the ridiculous theatrics of someone like LoDuca for “fire.”
“The people who fit into this category are Wright and Pedro (when he’s here). Wright is our Derek Jeter and Pedro is a sort of Schilling (make crazy remarks and have a great swagger).”
Again, this is so dumb. “Wright is our Jeter.” Guess what… Jeter was not the “leader” of the Yanks at 24, no matter how good he was. Paul O’Neill was. Bernie Williams was. Jeter didn’t become captain until he was older.
As for Pedro and his “crazy remarks and swagger,” why must we analogize everyone on our team to other successful players? Why do we need to try and re-create what the Yankees and Red Sox have done?
Personally, I think this team is going to be fine. Wagner and Beltran are both strong leaders for this team. I also think Johan will assert himself more as he becomes more comfortable in his new surroundings. Wright, Reyes, and Maine are the future of this franchise and will eventually be the leaders of this team.
Do we really think this team won’t win because they lack a “fiery leader” or one who makes “crazy comments” and has a “swagger.” Give me a break.
paul o’neill was the leader of the championship yankee teams. they won zero titles since he left.
A leader is anyone who others respect and follow the lead of. It is someone who influences others in proactive and positive ways.
So in this respect, Beltran is a leader, no matter what his personality is. Reyes, Pagan, even Schneider have benefited from Beltran’s leadership this spring. I’m sure there are many others, latino and non-latino, who look up to him as well.
Wright and Beltran are both leaders on this team right now. There may be others we just don’t know about as we are not privy to all that goes on in the clubhouse.
Pedro would be a leader but he’s been gone so much the last 2 years. But when he gets back, I suspect he’ll resume an important leadership role.
I think with time, Santana will be a leader on the club as well. But he’s too new now.
Cerrone, let’s relax with comparing Willie to Leyland. Leyland has won a World Series and been to another. He has consistently proven himself to be a winning manager over the years.
Way to use a small sample of 15 games to prove your point.
how about last year when leyland’s team had the best talent in the al (2007) and missed the playoffs or blowing the 6-game lead they had on september 1st 2006 to lose the division.
i like leyland a lot. the point is it’s about the players in baseball. this is not the nfl.
Leyland deserves respect for what he’s accomplished with his teams. But Matt’s point is very valid. As zen says, it’s about the players. And we’ll find that out this year when Torre won’t even get to the postseason with his dodgers. If there’s any manager who’s been grossly overrated in recent years it’s Torre.
I noticed that Reyes was doing his handshake with Beltran after he hit the homerun. I thought to myself “is he doing handshakes again, or is it because I’ve missed them because the Mets haven’t hit many homeruns this season?” Then I heard him after the game.
I’m glad he’s doing the handshakes again. When I heard he stopped them I was upset. I got upset because people only started complaining about this when the Mets began to lose, not when they were winning. It was a scapegoat of sorts. If teams get mad, so what? Just don’t do it at home plate, do it in the dugout as to not show up other teams.
Leadership is the managers job, enough with all the player assignments of who leads what. Does anyone really care? Just WIN already. Do what you are paid to do!
Glad to see Reyes “drive” is back but we could do w/o the hand shakes of last year. I competed in sports since minor LL’s and even then no likes to be “shown up”. Not only is it counter productive but I was taught its bad sportsmanship. But I understand where he gets it from. It is prevelant in poor latin american countries where its OK to ridicule and taunt your opponent.
Wait, how is it showing up the other team when it is done right by the dugout with his teammates? It is blatantly a celebration with his teammates.
I really hate this: “when you hit a home run you will the bases with your head down and then get a drink of Gatorade and make NO eye contact with your teammates” mentality.
For some reason its ok to bash the cooler, throw your helmet, and break bats when you’re playing bad. That’s “fiery” and shows “passion,” but when you smile and slap a teammate five or dance in the dugout, you’re showing up the other team.
When a player styles on a homerun… fine, that’s showing up the pitcher. But celebrating with your teammates in the dugout after a homer or a nice play, what is wrong with that?
As a guy who played a lot of sports growing up, I hated seeing that. But it wasn’t because I felt like I was being shown up, but because it meant the other team was kicking our butts. If a team doesn’t like another team celebrating a home run, a touchdown, or a goal, then don’t let them do it.
Yea……this isnt the No Fun League. Im for Reyes dancing and celebrating. It gets the opposing team angry and off their game.
However there is a fine like…….If Reyes or whoever pulled a Manny and watched his homerun sail away for 10 seconds before he trotted off I would drill him right in the back his next at bat.
I guess Im old school.
??? What do you base those comments on? Experience? I haven’t seen it in these “poor latin american” countries. Bad sportsmanship I can see, but ridicule? You’re way off on this one.
It’s not stopping and staring at a homer or dancing on home plate. It’s handshakes within the dugout.
Yup, its no different than a bump in basketball or football. It’s not meant to show up the other team, it’s meant to motivate your own team. It’s needed on every team. There has to be one rah rah guy that keeps spirts up.
That is such a stupid comment I don’t even know where to begin…relagating it to a latin thing? Get your head out of your ass.
It’s funny but Zen, Squad and a few others on here have been on here as long as I have it seems. And now we are viewed as the sunshiners. Who would have thought that a year and 1/2 ago. :)
Well, it’s because people cherry pick their arguments.
I personally don’t like Randolph as a manager all that much, but he isn’t terrible. I believe I even got into it with Zen about Willie late last season.
I also hated the Castillo signing and waiving Gotay. Neither did I harbor delusions of grandeur over the ‘07 team going all the way.
Yet, I am a sunshiner because I feel like we are lucky to be rooting for guys like Beltran, Wright, and Reyes. And that I thought Church and Schneider were solid, if unspectacular upgrades over Green and Mr. Feisty, Paul LoDuca.
Whatever.
Yup, I think Willie is an average manager that has good points and bad points.
The Castillo signing was 1-2 years too long.
I couldn’t care less about Gotay.
I thought the Bannister trade was too early.
I liked the Lindstrom, Owens trade (meseed that one up)
I think Beltran is an elite player and Reyes and Wright are learning to be.
I hate that we relied on Elduque this season and wished we would have signed Livan.
However, all that is done right now and I am going to root on MY METS.
You always make good points. Good job.
The Bannister trade, I liked. I still don’t think that Bannister will be that good. However, it’s almost as if I find myself rooting against Bannister to prove my point, but I do wish him well. I’ve always compared him to Steve Trachsel and I still think he’ll be that type of pitcher (a 4 or 5; career .500 pitcher/slightly above .500).
i’m a “sunshiner” from april to october as long as players are playing hard and an a critic from november to march.
then again, i argue too much to be considered sunshine :)
Not on here anymore. That was my point.
of course. it was a good point.
Disliked Bannister trade at the time, didn’t like the Castillo signing, and wasn’t particularly bothered by Bell, Owens, or Lindstrom leaving (and I’m still not.)
Think Willie should have been dismissed during the off-season and didn’t like the Milledge deal.
Think there is something to the knocks on Beltran. He’s uncomfortable in the spotlight, but he does give his all every night.
All of that said, I’ve been on the “Polyanna” side, because it’s simply too early to tell anything about anything. . . . You’d think Victor Diaz would have tought that to everyone.
And yes, I am a smidge concerned about Reyes’ stolen base mini-slump, but not a lot. I mean, one reason he didn’t steal bases the last couple of nights is that he had extra-base hits (including the HR.) I’ll take it.
“taught,” that is
Let’s see Willie win something before we start supporting his style over Jim Leyland based on a 15 game stretch.
I don’t think that was Matt’s point. It was that leadership can come in many different ways. Bobby Cox is a firey leader that is currently 5-9. It has much more to do with how the team performs than it does what kinda leader you are.
Am I imagining things or did a bunch of comments just disappear?
yes i believe so too
You are right……A lot of comments disappear!!!
you’re not…there’s some strange new chopping bot on the loose here (or someone’s moderating with a broad stroke lately)
lol@chopping bot.
Argh! Atlanta fans are infiltrating!
Oh wait… it’s a high-tech thing, can’t be them.
Whew!
I honestly didnt want Livan despite his good start. I think about him as an innings eater. Im glad we’re giving our own guys an opportunity.
J-Roll is coming back to the lineup on saturday according philly daily news.
more pick off attempts please
hahaha, classic!
If the Mets win Friday we have to hear how the Mets only beat the Phillies when J-Roll is absent from play (because they never beat the Phillies w/J-Roll before – sarcasm). We need to beat this team into oblivion like in ‘06. Leave teams feeling hopeless and put the division away early.
The Phillies are a lot better than ‘06.
how? they have essentially the same core batters (and minus bobby abreu), their pitching is arguably worse…?
the gun has been fired in the air
and the room goes silent…..lol
I don’t necessarily think fans complain about leadership because they want a “rah-rah” leader. Aaron Rowand was without a doubt a “leader” on the Phils last year, and he was no media cheerleader. When the fans look for leadership, they’re looking for a veteran performer who performs in the clutch (and please, no Bill James rants — I’ve heard them) and appears to “hustle” at all times. The Mets don’t have that type of player. Beltran looks effortless (which does NOT mean that he isn’t putting forth effort), Wright is young and appears to defer to the vets, Delgado just stinks, and the pitchers are either young or banged up.
That the fans don’t see a leader doesn’t mean the Mets have no leaders, of course, but there’s evidence of a leadership vacuum: (1) the Collapse — the whole team was pressing, kickign the ball around, and out of sorts. It wasn’t just the bullpen. (2) Wright’s comments when asked who was the team leader. He said Willie. I’m not in the locker room, nowhere near the clubhouse, etc., but that seemed like an odd answer. Wright tries to calculate every public statement he makes, so it could be that he thought that’s what the Mets wanted to hear, or just to support Willie, but it’s odd to me that he didn’t name a single player.
Wright is the leader, in more ways than one. He hustles in every play. In the second half of last year his defense was superb and his hitting was torrid. He did great and lead by example. Just because we don’t physically “see” a leader doesn’t mean there isn’t one present.
Well, it’s certainly true that one interpretation of Wright’s comments is that he didn’t want to say that he’s the leader, even though he thinks of himself that way.
Who and what a leader is in pro sports is a tricky concept, though. I think it tends to be a veteran because you have a ton of guys all of whom think of themselves (and are) elite athletes filled with self-confidence. It’s someone who keeps that type of person thinkign like a teammate that really makes a leader, I would think
TMU, I think leadership is different than what you are describing — a hustling veteran who hits in the clutch. Leaders can be pitchers as well, and it has to do with how players effect the clubhouse as well as how they set an example on the field.
Ortiz is a hustling veteran who hits in the clutch but is he a leader for the Red Sox? My guess is that he’s not.
I think there has been a leadership vacuum on the Mets, especially last year. In 2006, I think Valentin and Pedro and Floyd provided much needed leadership, but all 3 were absent last year. But this year, I think you’ll see both Wright and Beltran step it up. This is just the beginning for Beltran. He’s taking responsibility to fill the void a little.
BTW, do you know Bill James has done a 180 on the issue of clutchness. He now believes in it.
BTW, do you know Bill James isn’t considered all that relevant in the Saber community anymore? And that SI.com article is hardly a ringing endorsement for clutch.
BTW, do you know Bill James isn’t considered all that relevant in the Saber community anymore?
Says who?
And that SI.com article is hardly a ringing endorsement for clutch.
Says who?
After all those “booing” discussions, I’m so glad we have some positive news.
I guess I wasn’t clear in making my comment on “Showboating”. Its OK to celebrate in side the Dugout. Its the celebrating on the field which is considered “showboating”. Even Keith Hernandez (who when last checked was an All Star ball player) mentioned that was the reason the Marlins and Nats played above their heads towards the end of last season against the Mets and leading to their demise! And yes, in refernce to the statement of what goes on in the ballfields of Latin countries I speak from expereince from watching my dad and uncles play semi-pro ball in Puerto Rico. You see in these countries games take a new meaning cause in most of them the players themselves are betting heavy money on them(Money-games they are referred to) and so the players try to pull any pysch they can.
it’s the same veterans who led the team in 2006 running away with the division, sweeping the dodgers in the playoffs, and getting to game 7 of the nlcs despite losing pedro, duque, and sanchez
Right because they are not winning all the time. When a team loses, it appears that they have no heart, guts or leadership. When they win it appears they have fire, determination and great leadership. I wonder, does it have something to do with winning?
riiiiight. they’re different now and if they go on a winning streak they changed back.
grieving process? it’s baseball. get a grip on life.
i may be drinking the kool-aid, but at least i’m smiling and enjoying the games instead of fuming over silly little details.
the off-season was the time to critic last year (and i did my share) until santana was signed
Why can he not be positive? We get you are negative or “realistic” as you put it. We get that you don’t like the current team or many of the members on it and you want a winning streak. You say the same things over and over again. There really are not many sunshiners on here and never have been most of us REALISTICALY think that the Mets are a good team with holes and will be competitive all year. All of us want to win and were upset over last year.
Besides you have to admit what I said is true.
When a team loses, it appears that they have no heart, guts or leadership.
When they win it appears they have fire, determination and great leadership..
It’s all about perspective.
Anyone who watched this team last year knew there was something missing. They were fatally flawed and it came back to bite them. They never had enough starting pitching, which led to the bullpen breaking down, and everything just snowballed at the wrong time. It seemed like all last year we were waiting for them to “turn it on.” Well, they didn’t. That’s why I got over the collapse. Last year’s team wasn’t that good, yet they still only missed the playoffs by 1 game.
This year is a new year. Now I know what someone will say: “if they weren’t good last year, why do you think they’ll be better this year?”
Well, Johan, for one. Church and Schneider improve us at 2 positions. The bullpen is stronger. And Maine and Perez should be able to navigate through a 162 game season and the innings workload a bit better the second time around. Oh, and Pelfrey looks like he may be maturing as a pitcher before our eyes.
In short, we have good players. 2007 was an off year. Get over it.
Wow, I completely agree. I would turn to my wife last September and say ok honey I am going up to the den and watching the Mets lose tonight. Even when they were winning some, something was missing. Everything that they did backfired.
So what did they do, they went out and got the best pitcher in the game.. A healthy strong defensive catcher. A professional hitter in Church and added some bullpen arms. Do I think they completely addressed the problems, no. Do I think they are better than last year, yes.
While starting out a little sluggish, I refuse to say that a team that missed the playoffs by one game and picked up the best pitcher in the game is garbage.
13 games.
Thirteen Games.
XIII games.
Trece.
Calm. Down.
Oh we know we will hear u. Thanks 4 the warning.
I would rest Delgado and Schnieder. Easley for Delgado and Cassanova for Schneider. Castillo should be fine. But you are prob. right.
Didn’t you say there will be failure in baseball? Why agonize over a few losses?