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Willie Randolph, on whether he will consider moving Carlos Delgado down in the order, while speaking to reporters before the game:
“I think it’s way too early for that. I’m not ready to make any rash moves with Carlos. I’m trying to stay open-minded about the team in general, not just
Carlos, and as long as we pick each other up, we’ll win some ballgames.”
…well, that’s fine and it’s probably the right approach…for now…however, when Moises Alou returns, he has to hit fifth - with delgado batting sixth…
…in fact, Jose Reyes, followed by Ryan Church, David Wright, Carlos Beltran, Alou, Delgado, Brian Schneider, Luis Castillo and the pitcher, is actually a pretty good National-League lineup…as it breaks up the left-handed bats, puts more run production at the top of lineup, gets their best hitters more at bats, and allows castillo to essentially be a second leadoff hitter towards the bottom of the lineup, with the pitcher able to bunt him over…
For more on Delgado, read the New York Post, Journal News and the New York Times.
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So Matt, you like Church 2nd and Castillo 8th? I thought you were a fan of Castillo 2nd?
I said I feel Castillo is wasted if not hitting second, whereas Church can be productive and useful batting second and sixth.
However, if Castillo is going to continue to weakly ground out, and do nothing to advance a runner, then yes, I prefer he move to the bottom of the lineup.
I also noted how I believe how the lineup is structured is way, way overrated.
But don’t players often comment on feeling more comfortable in certain spots, etc.? Don’t stats bear that out? (that’s not a rhetorical question — I’m curious.)
church looked pretty comfortable in the 2-hole. and unlike castillo, he can actually hit.
castillo at his absolute best is a drag that high in the order, and slumping, he’s a lineup killer.
I know it would probably never happen, but bat Castillo 9th and the pitcher 8th.
That HAS TO BE the lineup. It is not that difficult to figure out. Just look at the results with Church batting second in the order. Reyes gets on base, they groove fastballs to Church because he is hitting ahead of Wright and Church makes them pay. That formula doesn’t work with Castillo because all he can do is hit choppers to the infield. Sick of it. Church is better than advertised and he has to be hitting second in this lineup.
Amen to that, Castillo is horrible from the left side, imagine all those doubles Church hits with Reyes on first… a quick 1-0 with a man in scoring position for Wright
luis is one of the purest number 2 hitters in the league- i would say second behind detroit’s placido palanco.
the job of a number two hitter is simple: move the leadoff man to second, or get on base if the leadoff man does not get on and let the big bats (wright beltran delgado) bring you in. Luis has that ability, he is an amazing bunter and an amazing slap hitter.
If beltran and delgado had been doing their jobs then you would see better results. this is not the American League you don’t need your number 2 man to rip pitches down the line.
Church is on fire, it will not last although i like what you said about better than advertised, i must agree with that.
i can’t wait for moises to come back. with the five man platoon in the OF beltran can get some rest that he obviously needs.
this would all be true in 1968 or 1985. in 2008 slap hitting, bunting, and moving runners over is wildly overrated.
it is 2008. we need our 2-hitter to rip pitches down the line, or at least hit them out of the outfield.
also, church is absolutely wasted beneath slumping beltran and punchless delgado. it is as if this lineup was constructed specifically to maximize men left on base and minimize runs scored. it’s ridiculous.
don’t want church batting second? fine. move wright or beltran up and have church hit cleanup when alou is back. i don’t care. just get the automatic outs out from between the guys who can actually hit so we can string innings together and score runs!
That is why you put Castillo 2nd is to break up the “automatic outs” with a guy that can hit 2nd and still be productive. Castillo will end up somewhere near .300 with at .370 OBP. Church most likely will not. He is much better as an RBI man and I will bet that you can get more RBI from the 5 spot than the 2.
Reyes, Castillo, Wright, Beltran, Church, Alou, Delgado, Schnieder.
I actually like the idea of batting Church behind Beltran. It might work well if Alou doesn’t get off to a hot start…he’s got just enough speed to stay out of a double play or two…
Yeah, Derek Jeter batting second in the Yankees lineup for the last 10+ years has been purely to move the leadoff man over to second. That is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard. Church can be a great RBI threat in the 2 hole with Reyes leading off and with Castillo getting on batting 8th.
Yeah this should be the lineup. You know i always assumed our bench was a strong suit of our’s, however with endy and casanova in there and castillo hitting second, with all of delgado’s lack of rbi production and power.. this lineup is scary- but not in a good way. Last night I thought, if Reyes, Wright or Beltran don’t get a hit, we have no chance of getting anyone on or scoring any runs. That’s bad. Hopefully Alou will change this whole dynamic of the lineup, and Schneider will continue to surprise us.
and beltran isn´t helping the issue by looking at strike three all the time in preassure situations… i mean what happened to protecting the plate with two strikes??
We all know that all hitters are streaky, and Beltran is an extreme case. He’s slumping now, and in two weeks he’ll be carrying the team. Just the way it is with this guy. His strike zone judgment is clearly off right now.
i agree he needs to be more agressive. I understand he trying to walk more but kmon protect the plate.
I Agree 100%. What a coinsidence that when Chruch was batting second the Mets went on a five game winning streak. As soon as they put Castillo back in the two hole they lost three straight because the offense just stalled. Willy has really disappointed me and I’m starting to think the Mets will never reach that “next” level as long as Willy is managing.
I would disagree with you, Matt, and say that Alou has to bat 6th because it would protect Delgado and allow him some good pitches to hit, but I simply don’t have any faith in Delgado’s ability to hit those “good” pitches.
Delgado is such a sore spot right now. NYT has a good article on the travails of Andruw Jones today, about his prolonged slump, about how pitchers neutralize him by disabling his ability to pull the ball, etc. Seems there are some similarities to DG here. I am dying for this guy to turn it around yesterday, and be the force for us that he was in ‘06.
Going to the game today, and God knows I need a Mets victory!
Really hoping Delgado and Beltran make things happen today.
Sucks being at Wrigley when our Mets fall to the CUbs.
I agree, grotesmask, Delgado is very frustrating.
I don’t feel he’s got much left, but what do I know? What do you do when your power-bat first basemen doesn’t hit for power (or for much anything else) for an extended period of time?
The truth is there is really nothing the Mets can do at this point. Who’s going to play first?
Exactly right. The problem is that Delgado can’t no longer take advantgage of the “Good” pitches. They say in every at-bat a batter will see “One” good pitch to hit but the problem with Delgado is that he has lost some bat speed in his older age and he only now manages to foul off that one good pitch. This then puts him behind on the count at the pitcher’s mercy and then they just pitch him way outside or jam inside. No chance for him with the reduced bat speed. He’s done, he just won’t admit it and neither will the Mets front Office and powers to be. He is going to hurt us like no tomorrow and as long as he is clogging up the batting order the Mets offense will never reach it’s true potential.
Matt, you know this, and I know this, but will the manager know this?
I am on board with that lineup as well. However, if Castillo returns to form, it makes our lineup so much deeper to have Church in the 5 spot.
Reyes, Castillo, Wright, Beltran, Church, Alou, Delgado, Schnieder.
For Castillo to bat 2nd, he needs to get his OBP back up to around .380 overall AND when runners are on.
.370 is fine, that would have been close to the best on the team last year and that is Castillo’s career averages. He has shown some flashes but he needs Reyes to be consistant as well. I just think our line up is much deeper with Church lower in the order but not behind Delgado.
so many ifs!
okay I am gonna go off topic right now, I wasn’t able to watch the whole game last night because of my softball league starting yesterday but all WFAN keeps talking about is Derek Lee and how the Mets should have protested the game, can someone please tell me what exactly did he do since they don’t explain it.