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A anonymous reader sent in the following e-mail, asking…
“What manager, while on a five-game winning streak, would change the line-up to go on a losing streak?”
…oooh, oooh, i love riddles…umm, umm, Earl Weaver…no, ummm, Cito Gaston…no…darn, i give up…
…as for Willie Randolph, my guess is that he 
removed Ryan Church from hitting second, returning him to batting sixth, because Brian Schneider was out of the lineup with an injury – meaning, he would have had a slumping Carlos Delgado, followed by Raul Casanova, a slumping and injured Luis Castillo and the pitcher…which would most certainly have drawn a whole new set of criticism…so, instead, he beefed up the bottom of the order, returning church to his previous spot behind delgado…
…i hope…and i cannot accentuate hope enough…i hope willie is wise enough to bat church batting second again when schneider returns to the lineup, which should be tonight…
…like i had said, ideally, castillo is getting on base – and so he should hit second, with church down in the order…but, until castillo gets his act together, church behind Jose Reyes makes the most sense…but only if schneider is healthy, hitting and on the field…
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Well I’m glad that I am not the only one who was thinking about this! But even with a terrible bottom of the lineup, why would you ruin the chemistry that the top had, so we have 4 easy outs at the bottom of the lineup, the top will make up for it.
I don’t think there’s anything Willie can do with a lineup where only 3 of the 9 hitters are actually producing. Sure you can clump Reyes, Church, and Wright 1-2-3, but then that’s all we got right now. This team is just not producing – and Delgado is the key here. Beltran is certainly being affected by him – you can tell by his 20 walks that he’s just not getting the pitches, and Church behind Delgado is a moot point as he’s constantly left being up in a dead spot. I’d try experimenting batting Church in the 5 spot if Willie keeps on insisting on batting Castillo second. This may (or may not) spark some more hitting out of Beltran…
Agreed. It’s amazing how dependent this lineup is on the success of Reyes, Wright and Beltran. If those guys aren’t producing, the pitchers better pitch shutouts. While it’s a lot of pressure to put on one guy, this team really is dependent on Jose Reyes getting on base. It’s early but he has only walked 4 times this season and his OBP is only .313. If he doesn’t get on base more, it won’t matter who is batting second. Finally, if Alou comes back healthy and strong, I think everyone will benefit since the lineup will be more balanced from top to bottom and have fewer dead spots in it.
It’s not really that amazing that a team is dependent on its top three hitters.
The Phillies are totally dependent on Utley and Burrell at the moment. They have, respectively, 20 and 22 RBIs. Howard is third with 9. The squad has a total of 100.
Wright and Beltran contribute a smaller percentage of the Mets’ total RBIs, and Pagan is tied with Beltran for second place in team RBIs.
The big problem is Beltran only having 11 RBI, which is because Delgado’s been so awful that noone in their right minds would pitch to Beltran in an RBI situation with a base open – even with less than two outs, since Delgado proved yesterday he’s incapable of even advancing the runners.
I think it has a lot to do with Beltran just generally being a streaky player, too.
Putting Castillo between Reyes and Wright could just be an attempt to get him going.
Will it actually work- who the hell knows…
The greater point here is the four easy outs. A team simply cannot win with four easy outs in its lineup.
someone just mentioned metsblog.com on WFAN to M&MD in a phone call… the delgado vote
schneider doesn’t hit. that’s not what he’s here for, and not what he’s done his whole career. so when he cascades back to expectations, which is something like a .250 avg with .320 obp and no pop (actually he doesn’t have a single extra base hit so far this year), then we hamstring the offense some more by moving castillo back up?
the only way a balanced lineup is good is if everyone is awesome. we will score more runs with an unbalanced lineup that is half awesome and half terrible than a balanced mediocre one.
agreed…who cares if we go 1-2-3 in the second, as long as we scored some runs in the first. The way it’s set up now, we’re gonna be stranding runners every inning.
i think maybe randolph’s blackberry switched the R and LOB columns so he thinks the offense is just roaring.
With this lineup the way it is it almost feels like you gotta put all the eggs in one basket. Reyes/Church/Wright are the only people producing so i would give them the most at bats. Sad but yes delgado is affecting the way carlos is being pitched to. Its just a shame that this whole team/campaign is dependant on a 42 year old……..
Wait a minute, Reyes is producing? He has a .313 OBP that is not producing for a leadoff hitter.
eh got me there……But theres hope for reyes to get back on the ball and be the leadoff guy we need.
Well he wasn’t producing earlier but over the past week he’s started improving.
Ya know- the talk and all…
A anonymous reader = Ryan Church!!!!!
lmao!
I think the answer to the riddle is Jeff Torborg.
Rich Kotite?
The bigger question is after losing two games, why would you take your hottest hitter (besides Wright) out of an already stagnant lineup for the final game of a two game series against the Cubs and replace him with Brady Clark/Endy Chavez?
Granted guys need at bats, but they could have easily gotten at bats during the upcoming series against the Washington Nationals. In my opinion, our scrubs and even Delgado might be able to hit in this sereis.
That’s an excellent point. One thing to remember, though, is that Church was never a full time player – so he’ll need ample time to rest during the year so that he doesn’t burn out by September….
Which is why we rest him during this upcoming series not a team with the potential to have home field throughout the playoffs. Willie should be playing to win every game against the upper echelon teams.
I don’t fear the Nationals whatsoever, rest our players then.
Also, why rest him and play Clark. Did Willie want to get Clark ABs so he is ready for his starts in New Orleans this weekend when Alou returns???
regardless willie, if it ain’t broke don’t fix it. we got embarrassed in chicago and have the nats and braves coming up this week. church in the 2 spot is the way to go
I am really starting to think willie is clueless!
Welcome to our little club. You’ll be receiving initiation and orientation paperwork soon. In the meantime, Otter will teach you the secret handshake.
the #2 slot isn’t the real problem. the team doesn’t have a #5 hitter…same with last year until august/september when alou was healthy.
I think you hit the nail on the head there, zen. And, how troubling is it that we are dependent on a oft-injured 42 year old?
Way troubling.
Isiah Thomas…nah…not even he is that dumb.
hey, when willie gets sued, we’ll talk. love willie, hate willie, he’s won more games last year than isiah won in his entire tenure as knicks coach.
???????????????????????
Basketball season: 82 Games.
Baseball season: 162 Games.
Basketball games: played by basketball players.
Baseball games: played by baseball players.
Basketball: nothing to do with baseball.
Baseball: nothing to do with basketball.
Willie has won more than Isiah: what the f?
I’m pretty sure Art Howe has won more than Willie. Let’s bring him back.
This is the funniest argument I’ve ever heard. By the way, Isiah Thomas has won more games than Vince Lombardi.
Isiah: 187
Lombardi: 96
So we do A only if B happens after C happens and then only when D occurs on a sunny day…but, of course, only after we experience a perfect planetary alignment. I get it.
All I get from this is one thing…..Brian Schneider is the root cause of all this.
So let me get this straight….The BACK of the line-up dictates the FRONT of the lineup (the more productive part)? This is insane.
Fact are….If Reyes and Wright are not granted the best scoring opportunities available…then no runs will be scored. Period. I can care less who bats 6-7-8 when 1 thru 4 are already performing top notch. We won 5 GAMES is a row with that lineup!!!
I’m sorry…I just can’t get over this….BRIAN SCHNEIDER is the reason why the top of our lineup was changed. So we make the strongest part of the lineup weaker just to make the back part seem not so weak. This is ingenious thinking.
Thank you. Why is this concept so hard to understand.
New Willie poll:
A- Willie is doing fine
B- Willie is a good clubhouse manager but needs in-game improvement
C- Willie can only work with the pieces he is given. Omar must be held accountable
D- Willie has lost this team. Make a change.
B execpt, Willie is an average manager.
D with a dash of C
I would’ve said B before last year, but the ‘07 collapse was more than just in-game mistakes. He totally lost the team. So, I’m going to have to go with D.
The answer to the riddle:
No CURRENT manager. Probably one who is part of this morning’s unemployment rate.
I agree that for now Church needs to be batting 2nd. When Alou returns I would use Reyes, Castillo, Wright, Beltran, Church, Alou, Dlegado, Schnider. That looks like a lineup with potential. If not I guess Reyes, Church, Wright, Beltran, Alou, Delgado, Schneider, Castillo will work. I just think the other lineup gives us a solid 1-8 where the 2nd one will not be using the the current players in their most effective slot.
i agree, but it all comes down to castillo revertin back to career norms. its also a major plus to have a guy like church whos able to make an impact as a #2 or a run producer. with off days and injury they need some flexability.
I agree with that part. That is why if Castillo is going to have to see a lot of bench time or if he does not come back up to last season’s numbers I would bat him 8th (9th really but that won’t happen) That way you would have who ever subs for Castillo in the 8 hole instead of messing up the entire lineup.
Biggest problem of 2008:
Jose Reyes
OBP: .313
If that changes, watch the wins pile up. Evidence: the last 8 games.
C Dubb,
I didn’t see your post but posted essentially the same thing above. This team relies so much upon the energy that Reyes creates when he’s getting on base. It would be nice if someone else on the team could step up to fill that energy void in those games where Reyes isn’t getting on base.
Well, I agree that it would be nice if some of the other “table setters” could step it up when Reyes is struggling, but odds are that we’re going to continue to live and die by Reyes’ streaks. No one creates a rally quite like #7.
Remember a few years ago when Reyes never walked, and the team worked with him to be more selective at the plate? Yeah, can we do that again? As you say above, he’s only walked 4 times this season. That is UNACCEPTABLE for a lead-off hitter.
He needs to go back to doing the Jeter thing again where he practically steps on the plate to watch the ball all the way into the catchers glove.
What’s going on in that picture. Is Willie asking the ump for advice on the lineup?
it looks like he’s describing the sandwich he had for lunch earlier that day…
Completely serious- in a game in Willie’s first season with the Mets against the Reds, he tried to make a double switch and did it incorrectly, thus losing a player. The umpire then explained to Willie how to correctly make a double switch! Great stuff… and now he’s the manager of a near WS team, so not so funny anymore.
I don’t recall that game. Was that the one where the Mets had 5 doubles and 3 Home Runs and Pedro struck out 12? And then that Braden Looper guy came in and gave up 3 runs to blow Pedro’s win in his 1st Mets start, lose the game, and finish the day with an infinite ERA. Was it that game?
I believe it was the game where Reyes got a GW single up the middle
Only Williot.
eh….
can we do better on the nickname???
How about “Randolt?”
Mmmm what about:
Willie “I have lost control of what should be a pennant winning team” Randolph?
I’m really hoping I can start using “Former Mets manager Willie Randolph”
Like Delgado , I was or have been in denial of his productivity. I always thought, he’s been in the game for so long, he will find ways to get out of this “slump”.
But it’s becoming more and more obvious that it’s just my and Delgado’s grandiose dream.
Willie has too much faith in Delgado. He needs to send a message to the team – that he has control (which I don’t think he actually does) – and he can do so by dropping Delgado. Remember when Torre threw ARod into the 8-hole? If he can do it with ARod, Willie can do it with Delgado.
Plus, it’ll take a little pressure off of him. Delgado batting 7th (the best move, IMO) means that he won’t bat with as many runners on base, in theory, and there’s less pressure.
IMO,
Reyes
Church
Beltran
Delgado
Wright
Alou
Schneider
Castillo
Pitcher
Wright needs to bat behind delgado if we’re going to keep him on the team. Its the only time he’s ever been truly effective for this team.
Castillo is better in the 8th spot then the 2. He acts as a second leadoff man to be bunted over by the pitcher, and his normally high OBP can clear the pitcher and prevent him from leading off the next ining.
I know the 8th inning is like “punishment” for castillo but he works best there. What would normally be a 1-2-3 inning for a pitcher becomes one where he has to throw a lot of pitches and stay on his toes for back to back bunters.
i’m going to go out on a limb and say nobody is going to agree with delgado as the clean-up hitter.
Not unless by clean up you mean someone to sweep the dugout.
hahaha
perfect
Sure, move Delgado to the cleanup spot. That will provide plenty of opportunities for Wright…..to be a lead off hitter in the 2nd inning….dumb idea
Yikes man. You want Delgado to get more AB’s than Wright?
How about:
Reyes
Beltran
Wright
Church
Alou
Delgado
Far from good, but better than yours.
Willy won’t put Church in the 4th spot. He has a tough time putting him in the 2nd spot, plus Church is more or less a rookie – and we know how Willy does with young kids and opportunities to bat them in rbi spots….
Each slot a batter drops in the lineup costs him a little over 30 plate appearances over the course of a full season. If you’re suggesting that docking our best hitter– whether measuring in terms of OBP, slugging, or virtually any meaningful statistical measure– over 60 plate chances will HELP our offense, you’re as delusional as WIllie.
Move Church up, drop Castillo to 8th (when he’s on, he’s free to steal/be bunted over), and feel free to slot the Delgado/Alou/Schneider segment of the lineup however you’d like.
By dropping Wright two spots you are costing him one at-bat a week and giving it to Delgado.
JoBU will save delgado and our season!
Only if they sacrifice that chicken in the locker room.
live chicken and not a bucket from KFC
The way some of our relievers are going I think more than one has drank JOBU’s rum.
maybe he needs hat for bat… hat keep bat warm
HE HAS NO MARBLES!!!
“I cannot hit curveball, Straightball…I cannot hit either, bats are afraid…i do not cover bag….glove and feet are afraid…”
Looked back really quick on that 5 game winning streak. In which we scored first in every inning.
1st game – Reyes singles (caught stealing) church singles, wright homers.
2nd game – church homers
3rd game – church doubles in reyes
4th game – church walks, scores on wright double
5th game – reyes and church singer, wright doubles them in.
Church did not make a single out in the first inning of those 5 games. He was drawing walks and getting on in front of the big hitters. Thus we were taking early leads, getting good starting pitching and good bullpen work. Which led to 5 wins. Church has also shown he can handle the bat a bit as well.
I think having castillo in the 2 hole is a bit overrated. Reyes can steal a bag if we need him to. Castilo kills rallies, gives himself up way to much, and also won’t swing when he’s ahead in the count. Then he grounds out weakly to the infield. However he had a good value as an 8 hitter, and plays good defense.
Even though i don’t like the fact willie buried church behind delgado, i guess i can buy into the fact it was cause scneider wasn’t here. I just hope church is back in the 2 hole tonight. We are wasting one of our hottest hitters behind delgado.
excellent analysis.
I have not read or heard one logic reason why Church shouldn’t bat 2nd ALL THE TIME.
Because he’s to busy trying to get on base/score runs, when he should be trying to move Reyes over.
Believe me I’d much rather have Paul Konerko, who is available by the way, just sayin.
We’ll probably have to throw in joe smith or aaron heilman when his value is back up to get Konerko.
Heilman’s value isn’t down. He’s had a couple of rough outings, but he’s been our best reliever the past few years. He’s valuable to the Mets and to whoever else wants him.
Why can’t we consider a nontraditional lineup like the Cardinals and Brewers use. I would suggest that our pitcher bat 8th and Castillo bats 9th. This adds another top of the lineup type hitter after the first few innings, while allowing Church to bat 2nd. This will also provide Reyes with more RBI opportunities – which is something we could really use, while also providing the rest of the top of the order with more table setters.
The only argument against this is that your pitchers spot gets more ABs than Castillo, but when you consider that a pitcher is lucky to get up twice a game, and the rest of the AB are taken by our bench hitters, who all have more pop than Castillo, this is not a bad idea.
Not to ram a Saber- up your ass, but individual players’ “RBI chances” mean nothing… we’re talking team run production.
The pitcher’s slot plus pinch hitters versus Castillo in OBP? That IS a horse race.
Individual RBI chances mean nothing? So RBI chances for David Wright or Jose Reyes are just as beneficial as ones for Castillo or Schneider? I don’t understand the logic in that. You want to get your best hitters as many RBI opportunities as possible, which is why they get pitched around in those spots and hitters like the pitcher and Catcher are often up in RBI spots.
Plus, Johan is a better hitter than castillo anyway. It might not be that bad of an idea. So when Johan leads off the third inning and gets on, castillo bunts him over, reyes pops up to ss/lf and church drives him in… i like it. too bad willie doesn’t have the marbles to ever try it in NY.
Delgado cannot hit inside fastballs. No matter where you put him in the lineup he is going to get beat. Protection does not matter.
It matters in the sense that when Wright and Beltran were walked to load the bases in front of Delgado and Easley with only 1 out, I figured it was just good strategy. Two popups later, it was. They WILL pitch around Beltran more frequently. If I’m an opposing manager, and absolutely no one after Beltran can hurt me (not just Delgado, but anyone after him), why would I give him anything to hit?
Bottom line is that it’s the players job to produce and this is what Randolph has to work with.
Unfortunately though, Willie has shown on too many occasions that he is unable to adapt to certain situations. In this case, sticking with a player because… well, there is no real rational reason as to why he sticks with certain players in certain spots other than they’re “his guys”.
Randolph is stubborn and I don’t think there is a rational person on this planet who can argue with the fact that he is without a doubt, the most unoriginal and predictable manager in the game today.
And this is why he is not fit to be a Major League manager. Because while a great tactician may win a team a handful of games at best, a stubborn, predictable mule like Willie can arguably take a team out of the playoff picture.
A couple of points.
Reyes hasn’t been stealing like he use to. His success percentage is way down and when he does get on base he doesn’t try as often. Maybe it is Church behind him not taking as many pitches. Who knows.
Church (and others) get a day off because baseball is a marathon. Maybe he doesn’t need a rest in April, but a day of rest in April will help in July and August. It’s not a sprint. Guys need to be paced.
Before the initial move I wanted Church to hit second and still do, but I also understand using Castillo in the two hole.
Yes most major league teams have their stars carry the lineup, but it is the lesser guys that actually provide the big hits needed (see Gregg Dobbs, Felix Pie, Roger Cedeno). The Mets lesser guys aren’t doing that and the Mets need them to do it.
And Reyes needs to step up big time.
…in an effort to track Willie Randolph’s Job Approval Rating among fans, i plan to run the following poll at the end of every series and will track the results with a graphic in the sidebar…
Do you approve of the job being done this season by Willie Randolph as manager of the Mets?
Yes, I approve
[…]ShareThis
Posted in Poll, Willie Randolph on April 3rd, 2008
..i had posted this earlier, but for some reason it stopped logging votes…so, let’s try this again…good luck…
Do you approve of the job being done this season by Willie Randolph as manager of the Mets?
No, I disapprove (59%, 2,377 Votes)
Yes, I approve (41%, 1,625 Votes)
Total Voters: 4,002
Loading …
ShareThis
Posted in Poll, Willie Randolph on April 14th, 2008
Umm…..whatever happened to this poll????
Cerrone’s idea backfired.
That’s what happened to that poll.
Backfired how?
Cerrone doesn’t post negative stuff. If he sees that 60% of fans don’t approve of Willie, and it’s obviously only gonna get worse, he’s just not gonna run the post because he’s a partner with SNY. And he said that the partnership won’t affect his viewpoint….ehhh…
I dunno.. Matt has posted some negative posts since the SNY partnership. I want to give him the benefit of the doubt. An explanation would be nice, though.
He did explain himself. He said that, as he was warned at the time he introduced the poll, the results merely mirrored the team’s performance, making it useless. If your team is winning, everyone loves the manager; if your team is losing, everyone hates the manager (or so the argument goes).
Must have missed that post…can you cut and paste it or tell me the date of that explanation?
Odd…in that a click on “Willie Randolph” on the lefthand sidebar…no such post appears. You’re quite sure there was one?
Still waiting, C Dubb! And, as I waited, I perused the last nine days of posts back to the last posting of the poll….and I saw no such explanation.
Perhaps you imagined it.
i don’t really like the guy much as a player, but shea hillenbrand hits lefties well and is a free agent. he could split time with delgado.
vs lefties:
2004: .323
2005: .325
2006 .338
2007: .260
Appropriate name, if nothing else.
Has someone brought up Shelley Duncan. I wonder what it would take. He’s a Right 1B/OF which would go perfect if F-Mart makes it Citi next year.
I’m not sure if F-Mart will start with the Mets next year. So far his minor league numbers this year are anything but impressive – especially with his plate discipline.
He’s only 19 anyway – 20 when next season starts.
Unless he improves a lot the rest of this season and during the winter, he should start next season in the minors.