In his latest column for Newsday, Wallace Matthews writes an open letter to Jose Reyes, asking, “Reyes, do you want to be a Derek Jeter or a Rey Ordonez?”
Matthews continues on to write:
“Jeter’s name is synonymous with winner; Ordoñez’s name is synonymous with bust. So which is it going to be for you? Clearly, you can go either way. And depending upon which way you go, so, too, will go the Mets.”
…i wanted to write an open letter to matthews in response on SNY.tv, but i couldn’t wrap my head around the ordonez comparison… i don’t remember anyone ever suggesting ordonez would be able to hit – he wasn’t – and he went on to win three gold gloves and play a part in what some called The Greatest Infield Ever... of course, i’m not here to defend rey-rey, especially since by the end of the year, reyes will have far surpassed his career totals in just about every offensive category, plus reyes came into the league much younger than ordonez did…
…i don’t understand why reyes has to choose between being ordonez and jeter, since he has his own unique set of skills… matthews is right when he says reyes needs to get on base more, but maybe he should stop drawing silly comparisons and wait until a few more games have been played before he suggests that reyes’ name will be “synonymous with bust.”…
…added to by Matthew Cerrone…
…this is called a false choice…sort of like in politics of late, when they pit “Experience vs. Change.”…what’s more, it’s lazy-thinking from the writer…reyes has only one choice: to either be the best reyes he can be, or not…that’s it…either way, the name on the back of jersey will never change…
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Jeter will go down as one of the most overrated athletes in history. No one will ever convince me otherwise.
I’m in total agreement. I don’t care what anyone says. I have this argument with friends and family all the time. If he played for the Cincinnati Reds, nobody would even know who he is.
Agreed. While Jeter to me is Hall of Fame caliber, you can still be Hall of Fame caliber and ludicrously overrated.
Of his top ten comparables through age 33, just three have a comparability score of 875 or higher (anything lesser you’re starting to grasp at straws). And who are those players? Roberto Alomar checks in at number one, Frankie Frisch at number two, and Ryne Sandberg at number three. Do these guys deserve the Hall of Fame? Well, Frisch isn’t in debate because he was also a truly great manager. But Sandberg and Alomar merely average Hall of Fame candidates at best and Alomar, the most similar player, could honestly go either way.
Jeter is a great hitter, but quite possibly the worst shortstop in the history of the game (and many independent statistical analyses back this up).
I wonder if Girardi will have the balls that Joe Torre so lacked and tell Jeter he’s needed in left field and move A-Rod to SS.
“If he played for the Reds…” i love this strain of thought. A true Met fan will always be tempted to denegrate Derek “Every Kind of Mo” Jeter. Why attempt to sound resonable by genuflecting at Jeter’s greatness when he is going around giving celebrities stds?
Also Teddy boy, you don’t remember the NYT Magazine (or somewhere like that) article with full color pictures of NY’s next great shortstops, ReyRey and Jeter? The comparisons might have turned out to be ludicrous, but they were there.
I have faith Reyes will eventually learn that he can’t go up there hacking every AB and hit fly balls.
I’m hoping with a few more years of coaching/experience he’ll realize that his value to the team is getting on base any way possible, not hitting HRs.
The bust possibility is still there, though, if he doesn’t change his approach.
I really hate when people connect Reyes struggles because “hes trying to hit home runs”. If Reyes can hit for some power and drive balls let him do that. Notice how guys with power also tend to get on base a lot? Raising his on base should follow that with some more maturation at the plate. If anything, ever since slap hitting Castillo has been here Reyes has been awful. I’m not saying he is responsible for hindering Reyes growth, but just a thought.
He just has been having really terrible at bats lately, example last night when he was hacking away on first pitches. The funny thing about Reyes is, in ‘06 and the first parts of ‘07 he actually wasn’t anymore patient at the plate (despite drawing a ton of walks compared to previous seasons) as he was seeing just about the exact same amount of pitches per AB he had earlier in his career. His pitch recognition has been improved, he just needs to take that a step further I think and look at a few more pitches. And if not for those awful last two months of the season in ‘07 Reyes would have significantly raised his OBP for the third straight season and probably set several career marks, and despite those woes he still ended up having almost the exact same season he had in ‘06. The difference between his lauded ‘06 season and his “disappointing” ‘07 season; 6 extra base hits and a few singles.
I admit that I did not read the article. But, from the intro posted above, I understand his point. Not that Reyes will functionally replicate Jeter or Ordonez, just that he could fulfill his potentail and have a great, HOF level career. Or, he can end up being a disappointment or “bust” Not that he could ever hit as bad as Rey Rey!
Even if Reyes were to play to the absolute floor of his ability, he would still be a more valuable player than Rey Ordonez.
Rey was not a bust, in that he was as advertised – great fielder, horrible, horrible hitter.
It amazes me that people like Matthews get paid to write for a living.
WHen are people going to learn — the more you draw attention to Wallace Matthew’s idiocy – whether by linking to him, writing “I hate you” in the Newsday comments section, whatever, the more he’s going to keep doing what he’s doing. If you don’t think he’s doing it just to get a rise out an overly sensitive fanbase, then you’re not paying attention.
Besides, the guy will likely but canned or bought out after Murdoch buys Newsday in another month.
and therein lies the diemma…on the one hand, I know he;s an idiot; on the other, I want to read his idiocy to confirm my opinion.
finally, an honest fan! (not you 81)
I think Matt hit it on the head – laziness. The only to compare Reyes to Ordonez and Jeter is because they all play the same position. Jose can’t field like Rey-Rey but he is miles ahead of Jeter. Jose doesn’t get on base as much as Jeter, but he’s light years ahead of Ordonez. Just a dumb and lazy analogy all around.
totally agree…this is the kind of crap that dummies absorb and repeat, because they themselves are too lazy to investigate the analogy (dummies = casual fans)
Of course Wally throws out Reyes early seasons stats out there and Jeter’s are the same or worse.
I hate Wallace Matthews. Thats about it…
wallace matthews is no jack lang
Unfortunately, Wallace Matthews doesn’t have a choice.
He’s a Rey Ordonez.
This from FireJoeMorgan.com, in response to the Jeter comparison in this article:
This year, you [Reyes] are hitting only .280.
(Jeter: .277.)
You have drawn a mere four walks,
(Jeter: 2 walks.)
stolen only three bases in five tries,
(Jeter: 0 steals.)
scored only 12 runs.
(Jeter: 7 runs (!))
Your OBP, .313,
(Jeter: .309.)
is worse than all but three other NL leadoff hitters.
(– but better than the living embodiment of heroism, Derek Jeter.)
Awesome…someone needs to send that over to Wally, or better yet, send it to his boss so they can fire his ass.
It’s moments like this that I’m proud to say I go to FJM literally every single day.
Yeah me too. Too bad they only update about once a week.
And that’s the great thing about FJM…they never, EVER get old.
At the end he says
“Wallace Matthews is driving an Underwater StupidTank to Uninformed Thinking Island if he believes that either of their starts is indicative of what their career values will end up being”
Wallace Matthews is a complete joke. All he does is bash the Mets. How does he even have a job?
This was my thought process today upon opening the paper.
“Oh, an article on Reyes, interesting.”
“Oh, it was written by Wallace matthews..nevermind.”
“Oh, an article on the hops shortage. much better.”
THERE’S A HOPS SHORTAGE???!?!?!!??
How much is a beer at Citifield going to cost now?
Can metsblog please elaborate on this hops shortage? this is the most stressed out i have been since I heard Sweet child of mine playing before game 162 last year.
“Wallace Matthews is a complete joke.”
Seconded. All in favor of this motion say “aye!”
WOW! This is a big moment in Newsday history: Wallace Matthews wrote something POSITIVE!
In case you missed it, in the sixth paragraph, he stated, “I’m glad …”
Best to read just those two words and ignore the rest of the “letter”.
jeter is going to have 3000 hits
BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!
I’d be more fearful of Reyes becoming Gary Templeton than Rey Ordonez. Comparing to Ordonez is ridiculous on too many levels.
As for Jeter, there’s always one overrated Yankee player in every era. He’ll get 3000 hits, he’ll make the HOF and people will remember him for all the WS rings. He’ll have a good career, but he’ll also always have that stigma of being a hellaciously bad fielder on his resume, too.
But…but…but…the leap ‘n throw! The leap ‘n throw…that would be unecessary with good range…but…the leap n’ throw!
thanks for the laugh!
“There’s always one overrated Yankee player in every era.”
See, e.g., Rizzuto, Phil; Munson, Thurman.
With regards to Rizzuto, when your similarity scores show your most similar player to be Jose Offerman (!!!) AND you’re in the Hall of Fame, you know you’re overrated to a degree rarely seen even in overrating Yankee players…
Thurman Munson, who is NOT (and hopefully never will be) in the Hall of Fame, has his similarity scores show his statistically most similar batter to be the immortal Carlos Baerga. Okay, most similar batter who was a catcher? Manny Sanguillen…
Don Mattingly
I wonder if Rawlings will have an all-time Gold Glove Mistakes team someday… with Jeter taking SS honors, and of course, Rafael Palmeiro at 1B… ;-)
Wow, what a surprise lazy cliche ridden tripe from a sportswriter. Its because of dopes like this, and I do mean dopes, because they are eveywhere in mainstram media – regardless of genre – that blogs such as this and others are so very popular. That comparison is worthy of a dissection on http://www.firejoemorgan.com.
Jeter is very good, who is lucky to be on a very good team and in an organization with endless resources.
Ordonez on his best day was never 10% the offensive force Reyes is. And Jose is only a shade or two behind in defense.
Crap like that makes me nuts.
What I wish I could do is invent an inoculation against reacting to these dickhead sportswriters, and then administer it to my friends, family, and favorite teams.
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What’s with all the Rey-Rey bashing?
Ordonez set the record for RBI by a Mets shortstop in a single season. That was soon beaten by Reyes, of course, but the point stands.
Rey was actually a pretty decent hitter compared to the rest of the shortstops the Mets have had. Maybe this speaks more to the lack of quality of past Mets shortstops.
But Ordonez suffered from being at the start (or maybe the middle) of the “Shortstops are offensive superstars” era we’re in today. Back when none of them could hit, Rey would have been as good as any.
Also, he’s forever endeared to me for hitting an intentional walk pitch to right field to drive in a go-ahead run. I want to say this was off of Julian Tavarez with the Dbacks, but I’m not sure Tavarez was ever with the Dbacks, so I have something wrong.
Ordonez was an awful hitter. there is no argument.
I’m just saying he was no less awful than all our other shortstops.
And the vast majority of shortstops in baseball history.
Daffytone, your citation of rey rey’s absurd rbi “record” leads me to believe you never really saw him play despite your memories. He was a spoiled arrogant useless tool who had to get injured so the Mets could go to the world series. He was a cancer who refused to work hard on his hitting or bunting. Steve Phillips unbelievably resigned him on Phillips first step to Mets infamy. On his way out of town he called Metsfans names (not that there’s anything wrong with that) to punctuate what a classy guy he was. If you like light hitting ss’s, google Rafeal Santana and worship his stats instead.
Why was Ordonez a bust? Ordonez was the best shortstop the Mets ever had. I know we’re a little spoiled by the modern era with guys like Jimmy Rollins and A-Rod that are pluses offensively and defensively at SS, but those guys are almost once in a lifetime. And when all is considered, defense is way, way more important than offense at short. I don’t care if a guy hits .200 if he’s a shortstop that plays like Ordonez. No one ever called Ozzie Smith a “failure” because he didn’t get 100 RBI a season.
Jeter is not a shortstop. Jeter is a left fielder who has everyone convinced he’s a shortstop. No SS should ever want to become Derek Jeter.
i can’t believe you just compared Ozzie Smith to Rey Ordonez. I need to take a shower.
If you discount personality and longevity, I don’t think it’s really that big a stretch to compare the two.
no
I’m actually a bit more of a Jeter defender than most. I think his defense is underrated. He’s not very good, but he’s not quite as awful as many people make him out to be. Range isn’t the only factor for a shortstop. He’s got a weak arm, but you don’t see him failing to throw guys out very often, so whatever. And he’s surehanded, whatever that means. He’s below average, but not by leaps and bounds.
Of course, all those gold gloves are mockable.
The only thing Jeter does well is field popups. For a guy with a weak arm, limited range, who handles fly balls well, he belongs in LF, not SS. They have one of the best SS in the league playing 3B right now. That ought to be a crime!
Wallace Matthews is an awful writer. He embodies everything wrong with sports writers and is why more and more people are heading to the blogs rather than Newsday.
It’s fitting that Rupert Murdoch wants to buy Newsday because I can only say that this column reminded me of Bill O’Reily’s sensationalizing and unrealistic comparisons.
Where does he come up with his ideas?
I know we all hate Jeter but, if he can become Jeter as a hitter, i will be very very happy. Reyes is head and shoulders better defensively than Jeter though. i hope Reyes can develop some consistency this year too.
Everyone needs to get off of Matthews’ back. First off, try living your life without a newspaper (FACTS) and solely with blogs (OPINION). Secondly, Matthews’ is a good writer — which is why he works for one of the best newspapers in the the country. Thirdly, yes it may have been a horrible comparison on his part but that’s what he gets paid to do. He is a columnist, paid to have an opinion (none of you are getting paid to have an opinion on this site). Whether his opinion is right or wrong doesn’t matter. What matters is he’s doing his job – writing something that will grab his readers’ attention and spark conversation.
You all need to really get a grip. Seriously.
…. and shame on Matt Cerrone for sparking this hatred against someone he probably doesn’t even know, and none of you will ever know (including myself). If I didn’t love the Mets as much as I did … I’d hate every single one of you – because you are all horrible Mets fans without a clue, most of you.
I’m not defending you, Mrs. Wallace, but its worth mentioning Folly Wally is actually right this time.
My apologies to Matt, it was Ted “Who?” Berg who wrote the post about Wallace Matthews. I’m assuming he didn’t go to journalism school .. if he did .. I’d be shocked.
he may not have gone to journalism school, but he did go to mustache academy.
Ted Berg has consistently provided some of the most insightful commentary on Major League Baseball and is a true pioneer in covering baseball on the internet.
Are you one of these people that think that Joe Morgan is the epitome of baseball wisdom? I have no idea how anyone with a clue can bash Ted Berg and defend Wallace Matthews at the same time.
Unless…. are you Wallace Matthews??
I wasn’t bashing Ted Berg. I simply said “Who?” because frankly I’ve never heard of him. I wasn’t defending Matthews’ column, I was defending Matthews as a journalist who’s only doing the job he’s being paid for. Metsblog wouldn’t be “the best source of Mets news” if it wasn’t for newspaper or guys like Heyman, Verducci, Lennon, and yes, even Matthews. My problem with Berg, was that he was critizing Matthew’s for a shiesty COLUMN. Don’t you find that a bit hypocritical, seeing how Berg writes COLUMNS for a living – where he is entitled to his own opinion and therefore conveys it on paper, same as what Matthews did.
And no I am not Wallace Matthews.
You’re kidding, right? Newsday has had some decent writers over the years–Jon Heyman, Tom Verducci… David Lennon still writes for them, but he’s probably the only one still worth reading. Wallace Matthews, OTOH, is a Yankees fanboy who wouldn’t know sports journalism if it bit him in the rosin bag.
Honestly, Metsblog is probably the best source of Mets news, especially since its phenomenal growth over the past year, and the Daily News and the Record are probably the best in print. David Lennon’s blog is worth reading over at Newsday.com, but it’s about the only thing worth reading over there.
I know Matthews – I worked at the same paper as him some time ago. Just as he says about Reyes, Matthews had a choice to make – and he choose to become a hack.
Sad, but its true.
Take the names of Jeter and Ordonez out of the article and he makes a very valid point. We’re getting back to the impatient, swing at every first pitch and most likely pop-out Reyes that drove all of us crazy.
Take more first pitches. In fact, take more pitches in general. We need you on base.
We’re frustrated with him because we know he can be phenominal day in and out, but he hasn’t been. I’m sure he’ll come around, but we have to address the here and now.
It’s forced choice…not false choice.
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