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During his appearance yesterday on WFAN’s Mike and the Maddog, Willie Randolph acknowledged that Carlos Delgado is ‘struggling,’ adding that Delgado does not mind hitting sixth, ‘because he wants to win.’
According to Randolph, he has not considered using Moises Alou at first base when he returns from the disabled list.
Randolph also admits that the team has been a bit inconsistent this season – however, he says, the team is playing hard, and, “I really believe and have confidence that this team is gonna play real well this season.”
Randolph says he will continue to hit Luis Castillo behind Jose Reyes, as long as Castillo is healthy, because, “He’s one of the best number-two guys in the league,” adding, “Jose Reyes is our catalyst and Luis knows what to do when Jose is on base.”
Lastly, when asked if he ‘picks on’ younger players more than older players, Randolph got stern and said…
“That’s so ridiculous…First, I like young players more than I like older players, because you can mold them. Most of the older players are stuck in their ways. I talk to my players; I don’t yell at them. I talk to them like men, with respect. You don’t get anything out of yelling at grown men.”
…i just had this argument with some one the other day…i think it’s popular fan opinion that randolph prefers veterans over young players…however, i think that is a manifestation of an organization that feels a) it must win now, and b) must compete with the Yankees in the media market place…and so, there is not a whole lot of time to wait for a young player to develop, unless it is an extraordinary talent like David Wright, Jose Reyes, Aaron Heilman, John Maine, Mike Pelfrey, etc, all of whom are young players who the Mets stuck by…i mean, it’s not like they’re sitting on some gem of a position prospect, and starting Jose Offerman instead…that said, while i may have preferred they keep Lastings Milledge, the mindset was, ‘Yes, Lastings will be good, but we just don’t have time to wait,’ and i think those decisions get put solely on willie, when it should fall on him plus Omar Minaya plus every one else in the team’s management…
…however, i sense a shift in this philosophy and a renewed dedication towards developing younger players, which we’ll likely see more of in the years to come…
Randolph also talked about the Phillies, playing small ball, and Duaner Sanchez, among other things.
To listen to his entire interview, go to WFAN.com.
Lou Piniella seems to get a lot out of his players by acting like a complete ass and ripping the clubhouse apart as well…
Just sayin’
Pinella also knows when to double-switch, when to bunt, when to make substitutions. Hey, I’m all for fiery, but Willie’s demeanor is not why he needs to go. Its because he is no better than an AL bench coach. He is inept in the NL and as a manager in general.
i agree. Willie has been here for 3 years and is still making stratigical mistakes and he does not seem to know how to play in the NL. While i dont see him being replaced in the middle of the year, i think the mets should keep a ear open to managers available
You guys complain too much.. just because you don’t believe in Willie’s philosophy (which just happens to be a winning one). Willie has been a manager for only 3 years and has an awesome record. Give the man some props! Don’t get started on the “he has a good players around him” argument. When Art Howe, a veteran manager, was managing the team with the “best team on paper” at the time, look what happened. So.. yes, Willie will make mistakes, afterall he’s only been managing for 3 years.. Give the guy a break already!!!
Willie is better than Art Howe. I will give you that much. Of course, that’s like saying Rosie O’Donnell isn’t as fat as an African elephant.
Winning Philosophy!!
Good one. I like that.
For all the people who think now that Willie Randolph cannot manage a baseball team and is “inept as an NL manager” lets take a walk back to 2004.
The Mets were 71-91 4th in the division.
C Jason Phillip/Mike Piazza
1B Piazza/ Todd Zeile
2B Kaz Matsui
SS Jose Reyes
3B David Wright
CF Mike Cameron
LF Cliff Floyd
RF Richard Hidalgo
Glavine
Trachsel
Benson
Leiter
Jay Seo
Matt Ginter
They ranked 8th in homers(185), 11th in RBI(658),12th in runs(684) 4th in steals(107), and Ranked 7th in era (4.07) and innings pitched(1449) and gave up 156 homers.
2005 Willie’s first year they were 89-73 with a worse lineup(imagine that) but better pitching and defense.
C Piazza
1B Mientkiewicz
2B Cairo
SS Reyes
3B Wright
CF Beltran
RF Cameron/Diaz (Cameron played 76 games)
LF Floyd
Martinez
Glavine
Benson
Zambrano
Ishii
Jae seo
Beltran hit 16 homers and looked like a bust.
That Lineup scored 722 runs, hit 175 homers, stole 153 bases, had a team era of 3.76 in 1435 innings giving up 135 homers.
Now in 2005 Pedro and Beltran were added to the team.
However, Beltran was really struggling and didn’t live up to expectations Pedro was amazing in going 15-8 with a 2.82 era.
In 04 and 05 the Mets had a terrible bullpen. Yet somehow in 05 they managed to make it work with just about the same cast of players only Dae sung koo and Heilman(later in the year) were added to the pen. Closer Braden Looper in ‘04 was 2-5 2.70 with 29 svs
Looper in ‘05 was 4-7 3.94 with 28 svs, so Art Howe had a more reliable closing pitcher.
Now how did that lineup in ‘05 get into the top 10 in runs, homers, SLG, and stolen bases?
Is it possible Wille Randolph had something to do with that?
Beltran was the BIG addition but provided nothing offensively, yet the team still was 17 games better than they were the year before. How does that happen?
By chance maybe because Willie Randolph clearly is terrible.
I think that in ‘05 Randolph had complete control over his clubhouse with no GM and ASST GM walking around and buddying up with the players like ‘06 and ‘07.
In ‘05, you never heard of Bernazard just waltzing in and out of the clubhouse and questioning Willie in front of the players.
The Asst GM should be out SCOUTING!!!!
Willie does have his faults and he does make mistakes but have you ever read Atlanta Journal Constitution after a loss? Bobby Cox is literally called an old, out of touch has-been.
Managers have their faults but someone tell me who the heck is going to replace Randolph? Charlie Manuel? Bobby Valentine? Wally Backman? Hojo? Jerry Manuel?
Just who is this great mind in waiting?
Most of our roster issues are Omar Minaya’s problem. The Brian Bannister trade is an eye sore but who is going to step in HIS shoes? Bernazard? or (God-help-us) Jeff Wilpon?
Willie and Omar are going to be here for at least the next two years and given the history of the Mets, they are at the top of manager/gm combo’s in the history of the Mets.
Thats not saying much but it says enough.
Ken Oberkfell, now in New Orleans..
Ken Oberkfell. Hmmmm…….Lets fire Randolph right now!
*rolling eyes*
as much as i question willie on some moves i think the same thing too. Ok if the mets were to ax willie…who would take his place and could that person really “turn” this team around. I dont really see that happening
I think that you dont understand what most fans think. I for one, say that Willie makes bonehead decisions. Like when to pull a starter, who to pitch from the pen, who to play and who to sit, batting order and calls from the dugout. I could count the games that I feel Willie lost for us by making poor decisions last year. Only one of those games would have been the differance. Willie shows no emotion and always spouts the same crap after evey loss and win. He is like a robot. When Heilman gave up that 3-run bomb in Phillt and SNY showed Willie throw is gatorade cup on the ground, that was awsome. He does have a heart. All I ask is that he be honest with us, dont lie and blow smoke and sunshine. If a “Vet” is cold and not getting it done sit him and give a young guy a chance. We dont care who does it as long as we win. Dont wait until its to late to make a change. YES, Willie improved the team from 04, but, he could not take the big step. It is NOT all his fault, but, he should see these problems coming and defuse them before they impact the team. Just hanging in there and saying we are still in first place after evry loss until the Phillies won the division was not the way to do it. What is Willie doing now to get the team back on track? Is there anything he can do? When the team make mental errors and cant perform fundamental basball plays, is that his fault? When we have basese loaded with no outs and only score one run, is that his fault? When the pen gives up a big HR is that his fault? When we win 5 in a row and loose the next three is that his fault?
Tony LaRussa seems to get a lot out of his players by talking to them calmly and treating them with respect.
It’s not a question of attitude, it’s a question of competence. I’m not quite on the “fire Willie” bandwagon, but I can see how some people can get upset with his questionable bullpen decisions and his apparent inability to master the strategy of the NL.
hic
sorry officer, just taking a nap. Here. In this intersection.
How to get the most out of players varies from clubhouse to clubhouse. Some teams have more veterans and some have more rookies. What works for one won’t work for another. If a manager can get his players to work and play hard for him, then he’s accomplished that goal. Until there is a revolt in the clubhouse, Willie is doing a pretty good job in that regard. Ultimately, the players themselves have to perform.
Keep in mind Willie is a rookie himself! You can’t master managing overnight.
Any truth to the rumors that Jimmie Rollins might actually have a broken foot?
I doubt it. They would have shut him down immediately instead of having him try to make the lineup or be available for pinch hitting for over a week.
well he could have broken it by playing through the pain. He did say that he hadnt had swelling, and then after his PH appearance the next day it was swollen.
Yeah- it was posted on metsblog late yesterday afternoon but the the post was gone within 20 minutes?
Matt- whats the word?
News to me…nothing coming out of Philly on that.
Has Alou ever played first base? Will this be the solution platooning left and cetner field with first base? C’mon. Also, I agree with the above statement…Willie needs to act tough. Geez, call out your players when they need to be called out!
He’s never played an infield position in his 1,851 games over his 16 seasons.
he never played IF and never will as im sure he will retire after this year
Matt, with all due respect, I don’t think the words “Aaron Heilman” and “extraordinary talent” belong in the same sentence.
LOL…my thoughts exactly!!! I was about to write the exact same thing before I saw your comment!
A “set-up” guy with an ERA of 4.97 this year and a career ERA of over 4?
This guy is a garbage-time long reliever, nothing more.
In all fairness, I think Matt’s point is that, at one point, Heilman was a fairly highly-regarded prospect. That may be, but it looks very weird seeing “extraordinary talent” next to his name.
and…
He’s really a set-up man’s, set-up man. His best success came when he was the 7th inning guy setting up Duaner for the 8th.
eh, he was at his best in 2006 after Dauner got hurt.
well, that success was certainly short-lived, wasn’t it? he really is a better 7th inning guy.
i agree. Heilman belongs in the 7th hole. He thrived on it in 05 and some of 06. After sanchez got hurt and gm 6…..hes never been the same
Yes, he was at his best after Duaner got hurt and the Mets were already 12 games up in the standings in September. We’ve seen how he responds when the pressure is really on.
We cetrainly did. In September 2007, with the Mets fighting for their playoff lives, he gave up 4 ER in 17 appearances, pitching to a 2.04 ERA. What garbage. *rolls eyes*
You know what? If you trust him with the ball in a big spot, my hats off to you. I hope you, he, and Willie will be very happy together.
In other words, the stats totally prove you wrong.
Some things go beyond stats, but if you’re interested in them, see redmarauder07’s post, above (see also Molina, Yadier). You want to tell me he had a good string of games last September, ok. I’ve been watching him since he came into the league, and his entire body of work terrifies me. In a big spot, he is a gopher ball waiting to happen – you know it and I know it.
We go from basing Willie and Omar for not allowing Heilman to be our 5th starter to he’s a crapy overrated RP with a 4+ era and should be the 7th inning guy or long relief man. Wow how times have changed!
I agree. I was at the game last Fri in Philly, and when Willie brought him in with 2 on, I turned to my friend and said “This guy terrifies me. He gives up a ton of homers, especially in critical spots.” Lo n behold, he gives up a 3-run blast to his first batter, Dobbs. Point proven.
…and then the next day, entering with the bases loaded in the 8th, struck out two of the three hitters he faced (after pagan’s misplay of a liner to left fell in for a run scoring single) to preserve the lead and eventual win. Point disproven.
The point is that he has the propensity to give up home runs in big situations. NOT that he gives up a homer in every single pressure situation. (If that were actually the case, he wouldn’t be on any major league roster.)
The guy has good stuff. However, you can’t deny the fact that he’s prone to the long ball, particularly in tight spots.
My point exactly, which is the last thing you want in an 8th-inning guy.
Actually, I can deny he’s prone to the long ball…he’s given up 14 in 239 IP as a reliever. And they’re all tight spots, he pitches in the late innings of close games! Yes, he’s a K/Flyball pitcher, and occasionally those turn into HRs…and the worst of those moments may stick in our collective memory, but it’s cherry picking to define him by those. For instance, he did his job and held leads (or ties) in his other SIX appearences in the 06 playoffs, which if he didn’t we don’t even get to a game 7. So some scrub hits a homer off him at the worst possible time, and he is forever unclutch. I say hooey.
…but I think I’m getting lost in the details (it’s a pet peeve of mine, this whole clutch business)…becauase I get just as nervous as the next guy when he’s out there at the end of games, and I don’t want to be disingenuous by getting all caught up in the facts, when I think we’re really talking about the feeling in the pits of our stomachs.
Agreed. That sentence should read: “… extraordinary talent like David Wright and Jose Reyes, and lesser talents like Aaron Heilman, John Maine, and Mike Pelfrey.
Luis knows what to do when Jose is on? Groundout?
Church knows what to do as well. Walk or hit a double.
Knowing and doing are ENTIRELY different things.
lol good point. I guess as a small ball pov, castillo is supposed to move jose over and ive heard anouncers say castillo is good at that. Havent seen enough evidance yet to agree.
This team doesn’t seem to get the message when it comes to “small ball”, either: hence, all of the lumberjack swings and pop-ups with men on base. So, the idea of a guy like Castillo hitting second is admirable. BUT, at some point, you have be pragmatic and account for execution. Church seems to thrive ahead of Wright, and the team has been scoring runs. There’s no reason to depart from practice in favor of theory if you’re getting results. Church goes into a slump or the team scores 4 runs in four games, then we talk about making a change. I don’t see why you have to be inflexible. Bobby V used to change lineups frequently and it didn’t seem to bother anyone. Maybe that speaks to the lack of importance of the batting order, but it also might speak to the ability to use batting order to get the most out of your lineup.
I think the strategy here is to score first.. Reyes gets on.. steals second.. Castilo grounds out to move him over and we score on a sac fly.
They’re tricky percentages, though. Reyes stealing second, bunted over to third scores a certain percentage of the time, but he also scores from second on any single out of the infield, and you’ve got the likelihood of Church ending up with an extra-base hit, etc., etc. Seems to me like it’s more about having “balance” with Church lower in the order to protect Beltran, given that Delgado is essentially Raul Casanova with a larger paycheck and less power.
You know how many times Reyes has been stranded on 3rd with 1 out or no outs?
His scoring % in those situations is about half of what it should be.
That’s why i say….Steal Home.
Well said Matt, your point is right, when in a win now mode can you wait and see if some prospects develop. In all fairness Ryan Church isn’t that old, I would consider him a young veteran, he’s only in his late 20’s
The Yankees are letting their young kids develop…Cano, Melky, Hughes, Kennedy, Chamberlain. So you can’t say its a media driven thing. I mean, they even pushed aside a Yankee icon in Bernie to go with youth. Delgado is no icon. Franco was no icon. Castillo is no icon. The Mets (both Omar and Willie) are just stubborn.
The Mets have always gotten sucked into reputation. They go for the aging star because they think that because of their name, they will produce at the career numbers. (Bonilla, Alomar, Coleman, Baerga, Vaughn, Franco, Castillo). I hate to hear the excuse, “well, this is one of the best ____ all-time”. The statement should be ” this WAS one of the best ___ all-time, but now we are trying to use his name to sell seats”
OK, you didn’t want Delgado in 2006? Would we have made it to the NLCS? I don’t know.
Sometimes, you get these guys knowing that they will still be good in year 1 or 2 of their contracts, and knowing that in the last year or two it will be a stretch. It is no different for “CD” here. Unless he completely tanks (like hits .150 for the next 2 months), we should be happy to have a 20 HR, 80 RBI season from Delgado and then do the buyout thing. Castillo, on the other hand, may have been a bad signing all around, but he did work well with Reyes last year, and given new knees, there was reason to think he would rebound. I still think he’s also good for the next 1-2 years.
(And don’t get me started on Baerga and Alomar. At the time, these guys were All Stars and just hit a wall with the Mets– for whatever reason. I would have done both of those trades in a heartbeat and so would everyone on Metsblog, had it been around then…)
yes indeed…everyone certainly wanted Delgado in 05, and at the time would happily have accepted two for the price of four, if it meant the playoffs (if we had Delgado in 05, we easily could’ve won the division). Mets fans have it great right now, but every day you’d think it was 2002 all over again reading some of this crap.
You can’t count Alomar in that list. He had an incredible year the season before we got him, with absolutely no sign of decline. The fact that he did decline took EVERYBODY by surprise.
and I’m no Alomar supporter: he’s one of my least favorite Mets of all time.
But they didn’t get him on reputation, they got him on skills. Where they went so quickly, I haven’t a clue.
those sessions on FAN are priceless. randolph loses track of what bs he is spewing and the callers spend the next hour pointing out all the double speak.
the win now and compete with the yankees mandate is exactly what holds this franchise back. the only reason they held on to reyes and wright is because the team was drop dead awful in the period they made it to the majors. if they were close to first both would have been shipped in a deal for the next mike bordick or billy taylor.
to the media Willie definatly downplays younger guys accomplishments while talking all the ‘big game’ in the world for his struggling veterans.
He did it again last night, albiet jokingly, that Santana could have done more. While he game a significant vote of confidence about Delgado yet again.
That, to me, is why people think Willie doesnt like younger players. Because he knocks them down a peg when they’ve done something good.
In the post game comments, Santana praised Schneider over and over again. I have never heard mets pitchers praise a catcher as much as they do Schneider. Also, I think Church is the real deal as well. Maybe he is just hot right now, but regardless, the guy can play right field with the best of them. I have seen enough to know that he is an above average outfielder and I think he is coming into his own.
I would love to see a poll on how mets fans feel about that trade now.
sure now, because the two of them are doing well and Milledge is still on skates in the OF…
why not after Milledge hits a walk off homer against Wagner?
How about at the end of the year? or how about not at all since its irrelivent to the Mets success at this point.
My post from the Willie postgame thread, responding to discussion of the lineup changes–
I don’t want to hear anyone call for Omar’s head because of the Milledge trade…
Look at how everyone is loving on Church now– putting him 2nd, 6th, noting how much protection he gives to those around him in the batting order.
Fact is, Omar made a good trade there. Church is probably going to hit in the .280 range, with 15-20 HRs and may have close to 90 RBIs if he put in these “prominent” places in the lineup. Schneider is one of the best catchers in the NL, and if he can knock a few in here and there it will be a plus. Schneider knows how to call a game (see Santana’s comments) and can throw runners out. Where’s Paulie? Oh, I’m sorry, he’s hurt? Can’t wait until Ramon comes back (Matt, cue the Storm Trooper head) and we’ll have a nice combo at C.
My preference had been to keep Milledge and sign Fukudome (yes, really), but the high bill for Fukudome might have kept us from trading for Santana, so who knows . . . .
We won’t really see what kind of a trade Omar made until a couple years down the line. If Church and Schneider play well, but the team wins 80 games, it’s a different story. Then again, I’ll freely acknowledge that the catcher situation was more critical than a lot of people were giving it credit. “I ain’t much on Casanova. . . .”
True, it’s way too early. But, I like what I see so far, and what the Mets are getting from both of them is what they needed THIS YEAR and for the next few years.
I think that Church and Schneider have been very relevant to the Mets success up to this point.
Church is batting over .340 with almost a .400 on base percentage. Milledge batting average and OBP are .70 points lower. Chuch has come up with a lot of clutch hits, although there have not been that many. To say they are irrelevant is wrong.
Im tired of people complaining about the milledge trade and DESPRITELY LOOKING for a reason to call it a bad trade. Cant you guys look at it as a good trade for both teams. Yes “MAYBE” one day milledge will live up to his hype and that all great. Look what we got in return. Church is on fire now but all and all i think will produce well and can hit lefties, not to mention his reliability in the field. Schnieder like someone mentioned above gets kudos from his pitching staff on the regular. So people just look at it as it addressed both our needs Nats and Mets. In the long run i think we came out better but i still think it was a good trade for both teams. We want to win now and i think having a reliable RF and C are good peices to have to achieve that. Just remember jose estrada would be our catcher if not for the milledge trade……scary thought
Fact is, we traded an inconsistent player with a high ceiling for 2 good consistent players who are now in our lineup everyday.
It’s a move that needed to be made at the time.
If people want to complain about it, they should complain that we didn’t trade him sooner and gotten a soon to be overpaid star in return.
I always thought that Church would be better than most people imagined. He is not surprising me at all.
Still, I hated that trade at the time, and I still do.
We had a catcher (Estrada) and a RFer (Milledge) and we released one and traded the other to get the same thing back.
Milledge is good, young, and financially controllable. In today’s game it makes no sense to trade a guy like that unless you are getting serious serious talent back.
I’m happy with Church. I’m okay with Schneider. I still think it was a stupid trade.
Did you see Estrada’s throws to second in our last series against the Nats? He needs a relay throw to get it there. He’s also hitting God awful. They brought Nieves up and playing him over Estrada. Our catching situation would be a total shambles if we didnt get Schneider. Milledge still hasn’t shown anything yet other than he’s not a very good outfielder. The jury is still out on him. If that trade isnt made we would have been playing the Nats last night to stay out of the basement.
I still think Jacque Jones aka Milledge won’t amount to jack shhh…..
“it’s not like they’re sitting on some gem of a position prospect, and starting Jose Offerman instead…”
I agree they’re fresh out of “gems” at this point, but they have all too often given utterly and completely useless guys like, well, Jose Offerman, Jose Lima, Gerald Williams, Julio Franco, Michael Tucker, etc. etc. etc. to pollute their big league roster for weeks and weeks instead of giving a fresh face a chance. Who knows, maybe the fresh face will stink, too, but at least you tried-
Insert the words “a chance” between “etc.” and “to pollute.” Carry on.
Now, now. . .”Ice” Williams was a solid bench bat!
Good for Ryan Church for telling Kevin Burkhardt how he feels about batting 2nd. He said he gets more fastballs, prefers it there. Lo Duca used to say exactly what he thought because he was a fiery, no-holds barred kind of guy. Church, bless his heart, just doesn’t know any better about the “right” thing to say to the media. But that’s the Willie decision I’m most upset with right now. If Church has proven himself, just give him more pitches to hit in the 2-hole.
I would LOVE to keep church in the 2 hole but it compromises the lower part of the order. Willie feels if hes that hot might as well give him RBI opportunities, which played out well yesterday.
Ok, but if that’s Willie’s thinking he should say so. There’s no need for him to malign Castillo, but he could add that he’s happy with what Church can do lower in the order. Willie talks with a chip on his shoulder, “This is what I’m going to do, this is how I am.” I wonder if people would have more confidence in him if he explained his decisions with more than a “gut feeling.” That’s not who he is, I know, but maybe it would ease some of the anger toward him? Well, not Dykstraw’s, we know that :-)
Does anybody really believe milledge will outproduce church in the next couple of years? Church is still a young guy and actually has a real lineup around him. From day 1 I loved the trade and soon enough people are going to start being happy with it as well. Noty even to mention we got our starting catcher for the next couple of yrs as well. Milledge will be solid but wont beat out both church and schneider
Here here.
If Church hit 15 and 75 for the Nats, wouldn’t he improve on those in a lineup like the Mets? Plus, he has shown to be an above average fielder and good base runner. Definitely an under the radar guy. I don’t expect him to keep up the current numbers but .280+, 20 HRs and maybe 85-90 RBIs are not out of the question.
And yes, what’s not to like about Schneider. By the way, did anyone see him this fall working NFL coverage on FOX? One Giants game they showed him doing some technical work for Tony Siragusa’s sideline/endzone reports. Brian looked tiny by comparison to the Goose but who knew that this would soon be our starting catcher?
Me too. Ive always defened the trade. I think the upside that we got for milledge was fair and it filled a major hole. We gave up a “maybe” superstar for 2 every day contributors who till this point have looked great. I like this trade and even if milledge one day turns out to be a superstar, by then we would have won a couple of WS with the peices we got in return lol.
I don’t get exactly what Castillo does in the 2 hole that is so great. Maybe when he was a Marlin and hitting behind Pierre, when he actually had knees and could hit the ball over an outfielders head. Bottom line there is no versatility to Castillo’s game, he is only a slap hitter who refuses to swing at a 3-1 pitch, just up there looking for a walk, and hardly steals bases anymore. Church on the other hand, has power, pop, can move runners over, drive runners in, and steal the occasional base.
Castillo = kid on your little league team who squated really low to try and walk, and liked to wave his fake bunt at you to try and distract the pitcher into a walk
The guy that hardly steals bases anymore is leading our team in SB and of course IF hits. Castillo’s job is to get on base and he does that very well and he works the count to let Reyes steal as well as drive the pitchers count up, allow Wright to see more pitches before coming up, and moves runners over for Wright and Beltran. If Reyes would start getting on base you would see that and we saw a little of that last night.
The guy has a .343 OBP – terrible – doesn’t “do it very well”
Failed to move runners over in a crucial spot the other game
Has one extra base hit this year
Bottom line – you are not a major league hitter, let alone a top of the lineup hitter if you allow every pitcher to throw a 85mph fastball down the heart of the plate on 3-1 counts, knowing you aren’t going to swing
well last night i lost it when he didnt swing at that pitch. He knew wright was behind him with 2 out. THE PITCHER WAS NOT GOING TO PITCH AROUND HIM AT 3-1. He should have drove that pitch but hey its better to be lucky than good i guess.
The word is out, when he is 3-1, he is under no cirmstances swinging. So he gets a meatball to look at. Hence the reference to a little leaguer just looking for a walk so the big hitters can get up.
He has a .378 OBP since coming back from the few days off in the begining.
Your reason that he failed to move runners over is comical. It’s like the guy getting on David Wright because he has not hit well in 3 games. What did the rest of the team do then. Players are not successful all the time. I will bet you any amount of money that Castillo ends up within 5-10 points of his career averages this season. He is what he is a light hitting guy that gets on base and moves runners over while playing above average defense. Get over it.
Ok so he does not swing there, he looks for a walk. He feels that is his job, and is confident in his ability to hit with 2 strikes. We would be all over him at 3-1 with Wright up and he swings and fly’s out to RF to end the inning.
When I have Jose Reyes batting leadoff – who can most of the times move himself over with his legs. Why do I need a guy who produces no RBIs, runs, or extra base hits, behind him?
You’re basically saying our number 2 hitter should take on the role of a pitcher when he is up. Just move the runner over and try and walk if you can.
really, calm down about his OBP and a few bad ABs. It’s friggin APRIL.
i’m calm, he’s just not a number 2 hitter anymore. You have church who is hot, and Alou returning in less than a week – and what are you going to do, bury church in the lineup so Castillo can stay in the 2 spot?
As for Castillo, If Reyes can get on (big if right now) then steal. Then you have Castillo up with a chance to have either 1 and 3rd or at worst man on 3rd with Wright up. Then Reyes can score on a flyball. To me that is what a 2 hitter should do. I am not looking for him to get RBI’s with Wright and Beltran behind him.
I have said all along that I want Church to be the #5 hitter. That gives him a chance to be much more of a factor than in the 2 spot behind Reyes and the pitcher. Delgado would move down to 7th.
I just am still stuck on the fact that Castillo should stay in the 2 hole because he is great at moving people over. So you are telling me he can sacrifice bunt really well, so he should bat number 2. I am sure Church can bunt too… not to mention Church can ALSO hit a sacrifice fly, something Castillo can NOT do.
I also like the idea that if reyes hits a triple, Church can hit a sac fly, castillo cannot. I like the idea that if reyes gets a double, or even single, church can drive him in with an extra base hit, castillo cannot. I dont want to have to always rely on wright and beltran to drive reyes in, while giving up an out and killing a potential rally.
Why would you want to wast Church’s bat on a bunt when he could be driving in runs in the 5 Spot?
to therealsince86
And we would have been all over him if he would have gotten thrown out on that chopper he hit. Yes i know players dont get the job done all the time hence all the games we lost that we could have just as easily won. He got lucky yesterday. And yea it would have been nice to see david get into the mix yesterday but he didnt so what, his team picked him up. You swear as if im dogging wright because i just stated the obvious. He was hot during the philli series, hes has cooled down since then. Im sure david will pick it up as he always does. As far as castillo i hope he does end up with 5-10 points above his avg, better for us.
he should stay in the 2 hole because he gets on base, and does it better than most. Baserunners in front of your best hitters is what it’s all about. If Reyes hits a triple, he can also score on a groundout. If he hits a double, castillo can drive him in with a single. Or maybe, walk and double steal, providing two risp for DWright. It’s all about getting on base.
Yes exactly and all people are saying if im not mistaken is hes off to a slow start. If he ever gets back to form of course he would be perfect for #2 hole and im sure thats why omar signed him up for. Right now though people are just saying church is your hot hand, he has no protection having delgado after him.
It’s all about being productive, which includes getting on base. Church can do more things out of the 2 hole than Castillo can, Castillo is very 1 dimensional. Look at other teams, I don’t like to talk about the Yankees on here, but Jeter bats 2 for them and gets up in front of big time hitters, and his only job is not to just get on base and move runners over.
Church can do more out of the 5 spot than anyone else on the team right now. Church is a better hitter than Castillo right now but it’s about mananging your entire lineup. I think Church means more to this team as a #5.
Jeter also has a DH, so no pitcher wasting outs in front of him most every time he bats after the 1st inning. There is nothing-nothing-more valuable than men on base in front of your best hitters. That’s how runs are scored. Castillo is going to play when he’s healthy, and he’s not a good hitter. Therefore, his primary (and maybe only) offensive value is giving the guys behind him the opportunity to drive in runs, which he does by getting on base. His one offensive skill is greatly diminished if the guy hitting behind him is an automatic out.
I don’t mind church hitting second from time to time, it does have its benefits (that you describe)…but when castillo’s in teh lineup, he’s most valuable in front of teh guys who are most likely to drive him in.
Completely agree, it’s not like people are saying that Castillo is a better hitter than Church. It’s just that Castillo in the 2 spot is where he can be sucessful. Church can be successful in 2-6.
If you’ve watched the games when Reyes has been on first and someone other than Castillo is up second, they’ve swung at the first or second pitch. He doesn’t get the chance to steal and I believe all that early swinging has produced 2, maybe 3 hits. The rest has been all outs. Now Wright and Beltran are up with no one in scoring position. Castillo takes the pitches that allows Reyes to be able to steal, willing to hit with two strikes. He makes contact, which means if he doesnt get a hit he at least moves the runner over. Wright and Beltran are the guys who are suppose to drive in the runs. Church is another RBI guy who should be batting behind Beltran to pick up what they missed. Putting him in the two spot he might change his approach and the numbers you’re expecting he won’t reach. He’s not going to get 80 RBI’s in the 2 hole, its not an RBI spot. I’m not going to deny the results of those 5 games he batted there, but I dont think it could be maintained. He batted 5th last night and see what it did for Beltran and the pitches he was seeing. Also look at Castillo’s numbers for the past 9 games, they’re back up to what he’s done in the past. He’s been getting on.
Yeah castillo is a perfect #2 hitter because he takes pitches, works counts and can get on base in so many ways. And if he does ground out, most likely it won’t be a double play so that Wright will get up with a man on, if church hits the ball on the ground its a double play with no one on for Wright. Plus if Castillo gets on with 2 outs he can still swipe 2nd to get into scoring position for Wright to drive in. You would need a gapper from wright to score Church from first or 2 consecutive 2 out hits from wright and beltran to score a run. You don’t need power hitters in your 1-2 hole, they’re man job is to work the count, find a way on base and let the big boys hit them in.
Just a few more things to discuss. Lets look at who is more of a concern here.
.263 AVG, .294 OBP, 4 SB, 4 W
.246 AVG, .343 OBP, 5 SB, 9W
Who is who here?
Also, since coming back from missing a few games due to inury player #2 has these numbers
.282, .378, 4SB, 6W.
Castillo and Reyes will both be fine but Castillo is not doing anywhere near as bad as most on here suggest and his is a good #2 hitter.
is that english?
which part?
I don’t understand any of the numbers you just threw out
AVG, OBP, W and SB? Come on, you gest.
Where are Alous numbers taken from? And I am sure you also didn’t remove Castillo’s stats from when he wasn’t in the 2 hole from your numbers.
Alou? I was talking about Reyes and Castillo? And why would I remove any of Castillo’s stats other than since he came back from injury?
because the concern over Castillo is about him being a number 2 hitter, not about him hitting in the lineup in general.
It’s a smaller sample that includes the 1st week when he was obviously not ready yet but if you would like I can look that up too.
Castillo no matter where you put him will still get on base and do what a #2 hitter should do. I would much rather him be a good #2 hitter. That being said if he were to start struggling again and his OBP start dropping into Reyes land then you have to break it up and put him lower.
those stats do put it into a little clearer perspective. what happened to “we gotta Believe”? c’mon fans, we’re not fair weather fans we gotta believe in our players to get the job done even when off to a slow start.
also, Church or Milledge to be All-Star first?
neither…too many OFers are better, IMO (which is not to say I don’t have a total man-crush on church at teh moment)
Sure, Reyes isn’t where we wish he was, but he has been coming around lately (if you looked at his stats before the last 2 games, they would be much better. 0-9 for 2 games in April does that to a person).
Reyes’ fix is simple though, Patience.
Castillo just lacks the slugging percentage that most fans crave. I’m okay with him as the 2nd baseman, and I’m okay with him batting second IF his OBP is about .375. Otherwise, I’d rather see him bat 8th or 9th.
I just don’t understand since when has it become commonplace to have your number 2 hitter provide no power, no rbi potential, no runs, no pop, and less than 15 sb potential.
This is your number 2 hitter we are talking about. His only job should not be laying down bunts and moving runners over.
I am not saying that should be Castillo’s only job. To me it’s to get on base and be patient with Reyes up. Castillo does that and can move runners over when needed as well.
He will finish the season with a line something near this
.290AVG, .365OBP, and 30 steals. That is a #2 hitter. Even if you guys don’t believe it he can still run as evident of his SB since becoming a Met. Why put someone with SB potential near the pitcher when you usually don’t steal in that position?
I think you are overvaluing Castillo’s SB potential. 30 SBs? The guy hasn’t had anywhere near 30 since 2002 – 6 years and 2 knees ago
10 in 50 games last season. 5 in 20 games this season. So in 70 games with the Mets he has 15 steals. Sounds like the obvious thing is that the Twins did not value the SB?
Sounds like you are just using a very small sample, less than half a season, and neglecting that fact that he was probably reenergized when he got traded. Watch when its late August and he can’t move anymore and we will see how many SB he is getting.
He got those steals in August and September needing knee surgery. And saying it was because he was energized after the trade? Maybe he was energized to be playing for a contender and will do it all year. Maybe it has a lot more to do with the fact that he knows how to steal. Kinda like Wright.
Besides I would think half a season is a decent sample size.
Willie is not reading his team. Chuch loves hitting second, knowing that they have a hot hitter they can ill afford to spend too much time with Reyes on base, other then throw fastballs. Castillo failed to bunt, not even close the other day. Sure then moving Church to the 2 holes leaves Beltran with no one behind him. Move Beltran to the 3 spot, Wright to cleanup, Pagan 5th. Once Alou comes back he goes to 1st base, and hits 6th.
Willie Heliman needs to pitch in the 7th inning.
I don’t even know where to start with all that.
Who is Willie Heilman? Was he the 3rd player in the Milledge trade?
Willie was going to bad David Wright 8th to start the 2005 season if Mike Cameron was healthy to start the season.
Yeah, he doesn’t have a problem with young players.
willie has the #2 winning pct in mets history.
willie has the #2 winning pct among current mlb manager (min. 200 games)
Yeah but… uh… but uh he’s got a lot of talent on his team. Look these guys don’t like Willie Average Manager Randolph and will not be happy until they have the next manager to complain about.
Insert ANY manager with the crop of players Omar has gotten and he would have the #2 winning pct in Mets history and among current managers also. How many games has Willie “won” with his decisions versus how many he has “lost”? Now, honestly, are you over .500?
Also, remember, we now have the Nats and Marlins in the division and 3 water-down divisions. This isn’t the days of 2 divisions where all the teams were pretty strong. (that skews the numbers of Mets history.)
excuses, excuses. the mets have had lots of talent many, many times without producing wins: 1992, 1993, 1994 (for example or who should have won world series and didn’t: 1987, 1988, 1989.
mets fans hate steve phillips. where would this team be without him: reyes, wright, pagan, heilman. not to mention kazmir and bannister.
the truth is willie is the first manager to face the blog explosion along with sny with it’s loud mouths, wheel house, and that second-guessing show right after the game with gary apple. ANY manager is going to get slamming in this era of ny baseball.
See…that is a very fair point.
Steve Phillips was responsible for Heilman? And for this I’m not supposed to dislike him?
Thank God Willie drafted David Wright, signed Johan Santana, Billy Wagner, Jose Reyes, Carlos Beltran, and Pedro Martinez. And where would we be if he didn’t trade for John Maine and Oliver Perez?
I am also ecstatic that Willie traded for Delgado, gave Alou and El Duque 2-year contracts, signed Schoeneweis, refused to give Bradford the money and years he wanted, signed Mota, signed Sele, signed Franco, and gave Bannister away for virtually nothing. Not to mention Willie’s great moves when he got the Mets great backup starters in Park, Lima, Lawrence etc. And who can forget his brilliant move in hiring Rickey Henderson, the “card-playing” coach?
Willis is a terrific GM.
P.S. Willie has also presided over some great drafts by the Mets in recent years, don’t ya think? This Kunz guy looks like he’ll be ready to hit Shea this summer. :roll:
I am not trying to say that Omar is a great GM, but Willie has been handed a lot of talent. I don’t think the Mets have overachieved at all since he has been manager. (Maybe 05; maybe.) If anything, I think the consensus is they underachieved last year.
Any team that doesn’t make the playoffs is deemed to have underachieved. Any team that fails below expectations due to a high payroll (the Yankees) is said to have underachieved. Any team that gets knocked out of the first round of the playoffs feels they underachieved. IOW, virtually every team feels they underachieve every year.
Sometimes it’s not because of the manager. And the reality is that the Mets team in 2007 achieved exactly what it was worth.
I don’t think any team that doesn’t make the playoffs is deemed to have underachieved; I don’t think anyone seriously thought the 05 Mets underachieved, for example. So I don’t agree with your assertion.
Sure, sometimes it isn’t because of the manager. But sometimes it is. ” The Mets team in 2007 achieving exactly what it was worth”; well that team includes the manager. If the Mets had a good manager last year, they would have made the playoffs. Now, that goes for a lot of positions; if they had another bullpen arm or starter or whatever they would have made it as well, but we are talking about the manager right now.
Anyway, I am not even sure what the argument is. I am simply saying that pointing to the record Willie has as a manager isn’t really indicative of his ability as a manager.
I was hopeful and willing to give Willie the benefit of the doubt early in his tenure, but as time has gone on I have continued to lose faith in his ability.
Actually, I think Willie will make a very good GM. I was thinking that this morning. His strength is managing personalities, egos, the clubhouse and his weakness is in-game managing. Therefore, maybe we can do what most big companies do when they find someone who is not a good fit for their role…they promote him. Can we make him assistant GM and find a better in-game manager?
Ok, you have a point. Not every team feels they should make the playoffs ever year. But almost every team does feel they underachieve every year in some way. Unless they win a WS.
IMO, it’s rarely because of the manager. I subscribe to the theory that in the majority of cases, the manager has relatively little impact on a team. That it’s primarily the GM’s responsibility to put the right talent and players with the right makeup on the field. Omar didn’t do that last year and he fell short in 2006.
The biggest reason for the Mets collapse was Omar’s failure to put together a good bullpen. His acquisitions of Mota, Schoeneweis and Sele were all bad moves. And the Mets are still suffering from Schoeneweis.
The Mets had a “good” manager last year. They didn’t make the playoffs.
I actually agree with you that giving Willie credit for the winning record may not be appropriate. But then if you give Willie blame for their failures, then that is not appropriate either. You can’t have it both ways, like many of the Willie bashers want it.
At least I am consistent. win or lose, the GM is the one to give the most credit/blame to.
I don’t think Willie is a great manager. But I certainly don’t think Omar is a great GM. Far from it. And he is far more responsible for the team’s fortunes than the manager is.
I am not giving Willie “blame” for the failures in the sense that I am saying it is all Willie’s fault that they lost or anything. They lost by one game; over the course of 162 games there are literally hundreds of things, that had one of them gone differently, would have resulted in the Mets winning the division. Willie was certainly responsible for some of them. So was Omar. So were the players. But Willie certainly contributed to the Mets not winning the division last year.
I think the guy is very poor at handling the pen. Sure, Omar didn’t hand him a great group of guys last year (I am guessing they thought Sanchez would play a bigger role than he did), but here is a stat that when I saw it blew my mind and says all you need to know about Willie handling a pen; from the day Mota returned from his suspension, no Met reliever threw more innings.
Anyway, I am guessing we aren’t that far apart; I just think Willie is at the level of a manager who has an decidedly negative impact on the fortunes of the team.
In 2006, I wanted to think Willie was improving, and some of the flaws we saw in 05 were simply the result of him never having managed before, and the more experience he got the better he would be. But 06 is looking more like an aberration; I believe the 06 pen was simply so good no one could really screw it up.
Conor, what it is about the Mota stat that you find so confounding? Since Sele and Schoeneweis were so bad, how the heck was Willie going to get the outs he needed to get every night if he didn’t use Heilman and Mota in the way he did?
Mota’s innings extrapolated out to a full season come to 90. Heilman pitched 86. About the same. Lets see … Omar gave Mota a contract that paid him about $3 million last year, and Willie’s not supposed to use him? Or not heavily? Why was he paid this money? To lounge in the bullpen? And he wasn’t supposed to use Show either, according to the Willie bashers. So the math just doesn’t add up. Someone has to pitch those innings. Or maybe once the starters left the games easly, Willie should have simply gone to the umpire and conceded the game?
When you have a poor pen, there is no good way to handle it. Sorry, but expecting a silk purse out of a sows ear is lunacy.
Maybe it’s best if both Omar and Willie are ultimately replaced if they don’t make the postseason. Firing just Willie just puts a bandaid on things.
Should read: “Or maybe once the starters left the games early … “,
Now that I think about it, I don’t think the collapse last year was Willie’s fault (shocker). At the end of the day, it’s still the players job to perform on the field, and I don’t recall any one decision during that horrible September stretch where I could say “Willie lost that for us”. Willie didn’t have back spasms in Florida, Wagner did. Willie didn’t throw a stinker on the last day of the season, Glavine did. Willie didn’t slump the second half of the year, Reyes did (although some of you attribute Reyes slump to Willie pulling him from some game in Houston). Willie wasn’t grounding into rally killing double plays against the Nationals, Wright was.
That whole team had a part in the disaster of 2007.
The only gripes I have with Willie this year is that he sometimes waits too long to pull pitchers, and the juggling of the lineup where Church was hitting second after we were 5-0. Other than that, a lot of these guys just ain’t hitting. If this team is still doing the same by June, Willie is probably not going to be around for you guys to beat up…who to blame then?
Mota was one of the worst pitchers in the pen last year. To give him the most bullpen innings when he came back was absurd.
I understand the pen wasn’t great, and Omar was the one who signed him to the contract. But Mota was pretty much horrible all the time; September was his best month of the season by ERA, and that was 4.05. Honestly, by the time September rolled around, I would have rather seen a guy like Carlos Muniz out there than Mota. Give some of those innings to Sosa. Or maybe even use Humber out of the pen for a few weeks; of course Willie would never do that.
Bottom line is Mota was horrible, but Willie found him worthy of more innings than any other reliever. You don’t see something wrong with that?
I don’t know why you are throwing Heilman in there; Heilman was a good reliever last year and should have been used as he was.
“and I don’t recall any one decision during that horrible September stretch where I could say “Willie lost that for us””
His decision to pull Feliciano after 1 batter in the 9th inning of that crazy game in Miami in September was pretty brutal. I’m not saying it cost us the game, but it was a very poor decision.
conor, you really didn’t get my point. Which was — given the general shakiness of the bullpen last with Show and Sele being poor options, who were you going to pitch.
So please answer me. Assuming you take about 15 innings away from Mota in 2007, who should have pitched them.
The reason I put Heilman in there is to have a reference and to show that he shouldn’t have pitched more than he did.
So how are you going to cover those innings??????
Please answer this.
And don’t say Humber or Muniz because they were just September callups and even you said it — Mota pitched relatively well in September.
The problem was earlier in the year and you can’t callup Humber or Muniz unless you create a roster spot.
Well first of all, you could do the obvious to create a roster spot and cut Mota.
I would have given Muniz a shot before September. I am not sure he could have been worse than Mota. Humber; well I was just throwing his name out there, I don’t think there was a real chance of that happening.
I could give some more innings to Feliciano; Sosa. Aaron Sele had an ERA half a run better than Mota did last year; I am not necessarily saying pitch him, but Mota had the worst ERA of anyone in the pen and he threw the most innings. Schoenweiss had an ERA 3 quarters of a run better and he’s Schoenweiss. Giving innings to any of those guys would have been a better idea than giving them to Mota. There is no way that makes a lick of sense.
Mota threw 13 and 2 thirds innings in August and allowed 13 runs. Aaron Sele could beat that.
Quite literally, everyone else in the Mets bullpen outpitched Mota last year.
Carpenter and Sutton said last night on MASN that they were told that there were plans in the works if Delgado does not start to produce. when Alou comes back that Pagan is moving to Right and Church will be taught to play first. Has any one else heard this rumor or is Sutton making it up like he does most facts.
Making it up. Why would you move a gold glove RF to a position that he has never played during the season? If you want him to play 1B next season, so be it but not now. Move Delgado down to 7th and if he still struggles then bring up a nobody to hit in the 7 spot, it’s not that important to have a masher there anyway.
Fact: Jose Reyes has been in a slump since Castillo hit behind him.
The only time he hit well this year was when Church hit behind him.
We’re sacrificing a superstar to be loyal to a veteran who is an injury waiting to happen.
Look, I like Luis, but he has to bat 8th.
coincidence, not causality
Why assume either way? Just play the hot hand.
Church would have stayed there if not for Delgado’s continued slump and Schneider getting injured. Willie valued his RBI potential and did not want to have to ever give up his bat.
You sure about that? You can’t dismiss the correlation outright. To say it’s a coincidence and not causality is the same as saying it’s causality and not coincidence. For a guy who like to test things, I’m surprised Willie isn’t testing this.
pretty sure, but I take your point. How about “probably coincidence”? :-)
How about this one the 2nd game against Philly Church batted behind Reyes and Reyes did not get a hit. That is clearly because of Church. Who knows how many hits he would have had if Beltran was behind him.
Or how about this one, this one is obvious.
Reyes does not like hitting when Santana pitches and he is jealous of both he and Figgy the 2 new pitchers. He is hitting .355 when Perez, Maine and Pelfrey pitch and is hitting .118 when Santana pitches and .153 when Figgy pitches.
So it’s clear, prove me wrong.
So much for getting Castillo out of the No. 2 spot for good.
Can anyone take Willie seriously when he says silly things like “Castillo is one of the best No. 2 hitters in the league.”
I definitely agree that Willie likes younger players better than older ones. Look at Jose Reyes and David Wright. They have turned out to the the big Mets leaders. Reyes gets on base, steals, and produces runs all by himself using his speed to sometimes create extra base hits. David Wright just is a hitting machine. His average last week was in the mid 300s. He has all kinds of power. Willie has molded his young star infields into greatness. With Delgado, Willie just lets him slump till he gets on a hot streak, and when he does the Mets win. You have to keep hitters who are struggling in the lineup if you can trust them so they’ll learn from the mistakes and ultimatly become better hitters. Willie is doing a great job with his Mets