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In a post to Coppola Sisters, Trey says, ‘Enough is enough,’ arguing – I think – that Willie Randolph should be fired for monotony and for removing his starting pitchers too early.
…welcome to covering basesball on a day-in and day-out basis, trey…enjoy the ride…
Though he lists a variety of other issues that went wrong last night, from strike outs to double plays, Matt Artus from Always Amazin blames Ramdolph most, adding, “Good teams don’t lose to bad teams like the Nationals the way the Mets did Thursday.”
…wait, you mean to tell me, in the history of baseball, spanning a 162–game season, a ‘good’ team didn’t play a sloppy game against a ‘bad’ team…
…man, talk about romanticizing success…
At NYMets.info, Michael G. Baron lists a few bad signs for the Mets, stating, “All in all, something has to give.”
…agreed…my fear is that the team is locked in to situations that will restrict it from adjusting…
According to the Brooklyn Met Fan, Carlos Delgado is crumbling before our eyes.
…the bell is ringing for delgado…my bet is that he has until Memorial Day to save his job…after that, all bets will be off…
In a post to Metstradamus, John writes a letter to Aaron Heilman’s alma-mater, asking, “With all of these accomplishments, how did your fine university manage to turn out somebody as stupid as Aaron Heilman?”
…well, that’s not nice…seriously…i mean, i’m all for being frustrated, but do you honestly think that heilman is struggling because he is stupid…jeez…
Is anyone else getting really sick of the whining on all of these websites? Don’t get me wrong, I’m dying for some good baseball from these Mets as much as any die-hard fan, but these “writers” sound like they’re parodying the over-reacting New York sports fan. Thankfully, the talent on this site maintain some perspective, though I wish I could say the same for the majority of the readers.
Here’s a thought: Rather than say “Fire Willie!” ten times, just tell me once who should replace him?
A couple of opinions. First, I am not the biggest Willie fan, but some people get on him after every lose. I blame Perez last night for not getting the job done. For all those fans who want to sign this guy for 5 years and 75 mil better think twice. He can’t give you more than 6 solid innings. Perez was due to give up runs if you look at his Whip.
Second, Heilman has to get the job done. I liked Willie’s decision to bring Heilman in there to stop the bleeding. There was no one else to use in that spot. Perez likely would have walked Milledge anyway, but again you never know.
Third, some fan said that Bobby Valentine was an average manager. I disagree, and to respond to your comment C Dubb, that would be my replacement. If you look at the talent that Valentine had and compared it to Willie you would be amazed. Willie has more talent and gets less out of them.
Bobby V has stated numerous times he has no interest coming back to manage in the MLB right now… He’s enjoying himself in Japan, and if he wanted to manage in the Bigs, he woulda been here by now…
That’s just bull. You can’t tell me if a MLB team called and gave him millions a year that he would not come back. Of course he is going to say that, he is too cocky to just say “No body wants me because I acted like an ass when my team needed me the most”
What’s Davey Johnson doing these days? It seems every team he managed improved dramatically (Mets, Dodgers, Orioles, Reds too I think)…
Then why on earth can he not get a job in the US. Not the Nationals, Marlins, Royals, Rays, Yankees, Reds, all the other jobs that have came open and even the Mets. I am sure you are going to tell me that he choses to be in Japan over those teams or he has great talent and all those GM’s are just dumb. Come on, if he were some allstar manager he would be uh managing.
thereal:
You were the fan that I was calling out. You said Valentine was an average manager. I want you to look at the team he had vs. Willie’s team. Tell me who had more talent. I don’t want this to seem that I want Willie fired today. Understand that I pointing out that Valentine was not an average manager.
Now, why Valentine does not have a job in the majors, I don’t know. However, was Willie offered a job before becoming the manager of the mets? I believe other teams wanted him to learn in the minors. I am just saying.
Where is Valentine?
And when I have time I will look back and compare player by player our team. Bobby was an average manager if he were an allstar he would be in the MLB>
Average managers don’t get a team with an outfield of Jay Payton, Benny Agbayani and Timo Perez to the World Series.
In all fairness, Bobby V had a great talented team. Firstly, they were much younger, secondly, they were much more balanced, and thirdly they had a legitimate power hitter who produced in big spots. Willie is stuck with a Beltran/Delgado tandem that either strikes out or pops out in rbi situations. David Wright hasn’t matured into a Mike Piazza quite yet – though he will, and he’ll probably surpass Mike’s best year, but not in 2008. All that to go with the best defense in history, speed at the top of the order, and a guy who never struck out (Olerud). Don’t knock the talent on that team…besides, they never got injured…
I agree, I never understand why people knock that team so much talent wise. Great pitching and defense wins games. They got on a great roll at the right time, like the Rockies last season and the Cardinals in 06. That does not make the Rockies manager an Allstar manager.
thereal:
Over the last few years or so Bobby V’s name has popped up time and time again regarding an MLB managerial position, including when the Mets had a vacancy before filling it with Willie. Whether the Mets had serious interest or not, I’m certain that there were other teams that would have given him a shot if the circumstances were right had he actually been interested.
As per players’ goals being the chance to play at the highest level, this I can agree with. However, managers are not in the same boat – Bobby is an icon over in Japan and already has had success in the Majors. He won’t go down as one of the greatest managers of all time, but I believe he is happy with his legacy here in the States and feels he can make more of an impact on the game of baseball in Japan than as a manager at the MLB level. If you are talking about throwing the man $10mil a year to return to the Apple, then you may have a legit case, but there ain’t no way that’s gonna happen. But if you think Bobby’s itching to get back to the MLB somehow, frankly, you’re just wrong.
I will just agree to disagree. I just don’t think another GM wants to bring the circus back to town.
Bobby V is the highest paid manager in baseball. Why would he leave Japan? The guy is a pop culture icon there.
Say what you want to say about Bobby V, but he does have one thing the Willie does not.
And that would be a PLAN.
A plan to have his ego stroked because he could not cut it in the MLB>
I’m started to get pretty embarrassed of our fan base. Where did all of these former bandwagon Yankee fans come from? Do people really think the Nationals are going to go 0-162 this year? I swear, all of this negativity every after every single loss is just too much and way over the top … and that’s coming from me – a perennial skeptic!
Anyone out there would do a better job then Willie. He has no clue what he is doing. How about Frank Robinson for a replacemnt. It doesnt matter get any one who knows what he is doing
I have to say, I’m really torn between supporting my team with whatever they do, and wanting to rebuild some of it…
I’ve been hating Willie’s play calls since he was hired, and something needs to be done. Maybe someone with intelligence needs to just sit him down and explain when and when not to pull pitchers from a game; and which pitchers to put in. It was pretty clear to 95% of Mets fans that it’s a bad, bad idea to put Heilman in a game in the middle of an inning with runners on base. Time and time again he’s failed to stop the bleeding. If Heilman is put into a game it should be for a full inning, start to (maybe) finish. Why Willie can’t comprehend this is beyond me.
I don’t claim to be a baseball guru, and I’d like to think that Willie knows more about the sport than I do…but he makes these asinine decisions over and over again.
Something needs to be done…I’m just not sure what.
the last time heilman pitched, just tuesday, he gave up 4 runs (only 2 earned…) He started that inning.
The time before that was in Philly .. he came in with 1out in the 8th in a jam, gave up a hit, but got out of it.
hate on Willie all you want, but be factual with your rants, please. Fact is, Heilman just sucks right now, and you can’t trust him at any point. To me, the point of the moves in the last two games is that Duaner is the 8th inning guy now, and Heilman’s been demoted to the 6th, and deserves it…
I didn’t Heilman is struggling because he’s stupid — just not especially talented. But I do think Perez isn’t exactly an Einstein. He always gets in trouble the same way. He loses focus, loses his arm slot, and then loses the game. Doesn’t a savvy person (or ballplayer) learn from his mistakes rather than endlessly repeat them?
Touché my friend, touché. It’s way too early for the pessimism surrounding this team to be rampant throughout this fanbase, as it seems to be. We might as well consider ourselves in first place right now. Granted, we have to start playing better ball, but everyone is overreacting. If we’re gonna fire Willie, it’s going to be after the season or if it’s actually during the season we will already be so far out of the race that it wouldn’t make a difference. And you’re right, I don’t see any managerial candidate sitting around right now that would be any significant upgrade over Willie from the outset (with the exception of Bobby V who has no interest)… Delgado is done, but I’m willing to give Heilman and Sosa a few more weeks here… But sheesh, the general pessimism surrounding this team is absurd, and frankly, disgusting.
Sorry, this was in response to C Dubb’s first comment.
That is so laughable. Bobby V has no interest? “Hello, this is Bobby V, what a job in the MLB instead of way over here in nobody cares land? nah I just pass. Benny, where’s my sushi?”
Don’t be so sure – he is revered like a god over there. They think he invented baseball.
And still players who are viewed as god’s over there still have one goal and that is to get to the MLB.
You don’t think he’s gotten a single job offer from any major league teams since he’s been over there? I doubt that very much.
As a manager, I would say not. He really embarrased himself that last month.
refresh my memory, what did he do that last month that got him blackballed from MLB according to you?
Maybe we can bring back Mr Howe!
Matt, I agree John’s comment was a bit over-the-top, but couldn’t we say the same thing about your remark yesterday that Heilman is an “extraordinary talent”?
How are they the same? I mean, I think you could argue that they are both hyperbolic, but my gripe with John is him being mean to a man who did nothing to deserve being called stupid.
I’m all for criticism. Go for it. But, at least be respectful. And I like John’s site, and he knows that. But, I’d like to think we can all do a bit better than just calling people names as the basis for an argument – that’s all.
How is my inflated, and possibly delusional statement about Heilman the same?
I think you hit it when you said they’re both hyperbolic. That was my only point.
Just to say:
I am pretty new to this blog. I’ve been a fan since 85, however this is my first season on here. This blog has been a lot of fun during the first few games. However lately there has been a few abusive fans who want to control what fans have to say.
My message is that this is Metsblog. Not your personal blog. You don’t have to agree with what people say; but please be respectful.
I enjoy reading what the writers put on here, however whether I continue to comment on here is still in question.
Lets Go Mets. Good luck this weekend.
Welcome to the blog. Keep plugging away. There will always be arguements, and people who think they’re right. Sort of like Mets politics. Except instead of Dem and Reps, you have pessimists and optimists.
haha that’s such good comparison. Kudos to you sir
C Dubb:
Ken Oberkfell
Gary Carter
Rudy Jaramillo
Bobby Valentine
Wally Backman
Any of these guys could find their way out of a paperbag.
Toasty Joe: Heilman is overworked. This is what happens when your team goes 7 innings only 6 times in 21 games
And they only go 6 innings because Willie and Peterson are too quick with the hook. You have to blame BOTH here…but Willie ultimately needs to be FIRED!!!
I said it yesterday (after the win) that although people say that Willie is great when he wins and horrible when he loses, that’s not true. Even in wins, Willie makes questionable decisions. He merely gets away with them because the talent actually plays to their potential on those occasions. Someone really needs to reexamine the disaster this team is becoming…
“History repeats itself, first as tragedy, then as farce”…
Welcome to the Farce, gentlemen!
Every single decision a manager makes is can be deemed “questionable”. When Willie goes by the book and gets burned, it’s for not being creative enough; when he doesn’t follow the book and gets burned, it’s for not playing the percentages. Wayyyyyy too much emphasis is placed on the manager – it is first and foremost the players and second Omar for not having the foresight to construct a team that doesn’t lend itself to constant second guessing. Had Perez been left in and been burned, everyone would be calling for Willie’s throat right now. As it is, it’s Willie’s fault for bringing in Heilman? As crappy as he’s been so far, his track record indicates he is a better pitcher than he’s pitching, and so long as he’s on the roster you have to use the guy. Simply, the only way Willie can win is if his players perform, and i don’t buy that Heilman would be pitching harder for another manager or Delgado hitting for another manager.
This team is totally going through the motions. Reyes’ error, Delgado watching balls go past him because he is too lazy to bend down. Its an attitude. If you have no fear that there will be repercussions for your actions, why bear down and play harder. Its been proven time and again that even if you fail, Willie sticks with you. You don’t get benched, you don’t get called out, you have NOTHING to worry about. Especially if you are a veteran. So why wouldn’t you be complacent.
I don’t think it’s that they think they don’t have to play hard. They all want to win as bad as we want them to win. However, have you noticed how things snowball? They don’t have the confidence to get out of their own way. That is what happen in September last season and it is still happening during our slumps this season.
I don’t understand why this is willie’s fault. Had he left Perez in, who clearly was finished by the start of the 6th inning, and he gave up all those runs you’d have said ‘omg why did willie leave perez in, he was done!!’
Willie is far from a perfect manager, but at some point you have to say look, these players need to execute, bottom line. It’s more ridiculous to me that Perez is a #2 starter who after 4 innings can’t find the strike zone, than anything Willie possibly could have done. Or that Chase Utley has as many home runs as our entire team. Or is that somehow Willie’s fault too.
I agree, but utimately something is wrong and needs to change. Thus when a team is not performing the manager has to get the axe eventually, his fault or not.
I don’t know Perez only threw 100 pitches last night, and he had got the two outs; I think that would have been a good spot for Randolph to challenge Perez to step up and get the last out. If he give up a hit, it’s two runs and manageable comeback; then you bring in a reliever. I think this would have been the right move because Perez’s last time out, Randolph pulled him in a similar spot. A pitcher needs to learn to get out of that jam, so he believes he can next time.
But I think that Willie, right or wrong, is trying to send a message to Perez. Want to stay in then stop having a blowup inning every game.
I think out of that list the only ones that would work out would be
Gary Carter (I would be worried about his me first attitude that he has a reputation of having)
Rudy Jaramillo (could be an even bigger Omar puppet)
I would still be willing to try either one of these 2, however the others on that list would make things no better or even worse.
Pinella and LaRusa have a me-first attitute too. Sometimes that what you need. You need an air of arrogance to succeed at that job. You have to believe that you are outmanaging the other guy. Right now, Willie is just like all the Mets in that clubhouse…they have lost all confidence and are constantly second-guessing themselves.
No doubt, because of the slide the entire team has lost their confidence. There is a negative air around the team that causes every small problem to blow up around them.
Look, I already know that Willie needs to go fair or not. We are talking about replacements.
I am just saying that nobody on that list is perfect but I would be willing to try Rudy or Carter. Right now I am blindly saying Carter but I don’t know that much about his managing ability.
I know. I’m agreeing with you on both. What I’m pointing out is that Carter’s negative point (the me-first attitude) might actually be a positive. I like Rudy because then we can attach him with Omar. If Willie gets fired and Rudy comes in and fails too, then we have to blame Omar.
There’s NEVER a “perfect” replacement. There’s always gonna be some questions about if a guy can manage or not. But what we know right now is that Willie’s not getting the job done. So I think a change is gonna need to be made at some point this season, unless this team turns it on under Willie.
Can we get that new Willie poll today? Maybe before the Braves series. Matt, today’s number is as good as you will get, because after the Braves get a hold of us, the rating might be a negative number.
I’ve been asking for the poll for a week or two now… don’t expect on having it up there… I like the idea but Matt did 180 on the idea for some reason.
You know what this team has become:
The Cleveland Indians in Major League 2.
Reyes = Willie Mays Hayes
Delgado = Serrano, he has nooooo marbles
[pick your pitcher] = Wild Thing, the pitcher with no confidence in their stuff, trying to be too cute and afraid to throw a fastball
Schneider/Church = Rube/Tanaka, the new guys who try to will this team to victory
Willie = Jake Taylor, the manager/former player who can’t get this heart and hustle into the heads of his players.
Metsblog = Randy Quaid in the stands, just waiting for them to be the bums they play like
and who is David Wright in this scenario? Beltran too?
I’m not a Willie fanboy but i have to say, I think he’s getting too much of the blame. He’s stuck between a rock and a hard place. The hard place being the fans and media, and Omar being the rock. I think the end of last season and the beginning of this one has proved to me that Omar has dropped the ball. How can I say that when he got Church, Schneider and Santana? Because the same problems have persisted with this team and he hasn’t addressed them. Willie has been given a bullpen and an aging lineup. Frankly, I think he’s been far more imaginative this season with his lineup and he hasn’t done crazy things with the bullpen. And I’m not happy with the bench at all. It seems they’ve been grandfathered in from a history of success; Willie may deserve some blame there.
If Willie were white, he wouldn’t be beaten up by the fans as much as he is. Face it, Art Howe, Jeff Torborg, and Dallas Greene make Willie look like Connie Mack or Bobby Cox, but they never faced the vitriol hurled at Willie on a daily basis.
I love Willie but i really don’t know what he is trying to accomplish. Anyone with any baseball knowledge would stop putting Heilman in in tight situations. Until Heilman proves otherwise, only put him in when the team is down big or up big. Let him pitch under non-stressful circumstance so he can slowly get his confidence back. Everytime he comes in when the game is close and gives up a big HR, not only does it make it worse for him, but he brings down the entire team. Willie has got to make better decisions with his team. If the Mets fail this year, you can’t blame Omar. He put together a great team, blame will go directly on the shoulders of Willie.
He did it with Mota and Franco last year. He doesn’t get that “testing” his players when they continually fail just brings the team down.
the problem is that the “big spot” argument has been used with everyone except Sanchez and Wagner.
yea he doesnt come through with big situations. But frankly i mean R vs R. Heilman has breaking pitches and milledge still cannot hit those. 1 out was needed………..
I still think he should be sent to the minors for some rest and to work on his mechanics. I dont know whats wrong with him that he cannot find the plate and when he does he REALLY lays it in there. This guy has no confidance and is hurting the team everytime he goes out. Unfortunatly by doing this im sure willie will overuse someone else.
And sosa has got to go. Either to the minors and we bring up another long man or trade him for someone. I understand his importance but what good is having a long man when he cannot get through an inning w/o giving up runs.
couple thangs:
you cant take the comments on a blog seriously… its a place to vent. While there may be some relevant and poignant things, its basically all just in good fun. I think this description can also be applied to the numerous mets blogs out there.
As for willie… many, many people were not into his hiring right from the start. They claimed that his laid back (and YANKEE) attitude along with his lack of managerial experience (read, strategy) will not work. That this city, along with the expectations of the team is not an ideal situation for someone to learn on the job. We all know this is a town that needs a certain kind of attitude. I dont doubt that willie may one day be a great manager… but maybe Omar jumped the gun with him. Most managers get some time in the minors before they get a chance with a big league club. By giving him the job right away, he was being set up for either a spectacular success or a spectacular failure.
I said this last year after the collapse:
I am all for giving Willie ONE more shot… because I felt that firing him during this season would be a stronger message then just doing it after the collapse. Hesitation will kill you every time… now is not the time to hesitate omar!
I also just gotta say this: If I was in Willies position, where my #1 criticism was that I didnt show any fire… I prob would have gotten thrown out of at least 1 game by now… or at least argue once… I mean… come on dude…
Thing is a lot of us who have been on this site for years remember when it was not just a place to vent and it upsets us to see it become that. That is why we have so many posters complaining about the constant complaining.
Exactly. Don’t get me wrong – I’m happy to see Matt’s site blow up like it has; the guy works hard and his increased exposure is well deserved. However, as someone who has read this site since the winter Jim Duquette landed Kaz Matsui, one thing I can say for sure is that, as the number of readers has gone up, the quality in discussion has gone down.
I recognize there’s not much anyone can do to control the type of comment that gets posted, nor is that even a desirable goal. But as Old Backstop suggested above, it’s obvious that the fan base is not what it used to be. And that just kinda sucks.
Maybe Matt should have a old timers comment section :) Seriously I have been to some sites that have a seperate board for those who pay to be a member of that site. Maybe that is something Matt should consider. I don’t think people would pay to vent and leave.
I think it comes with the Territory. The mets have taken on a new image of confidance and winning, something absent from us for a while. Just like the yankees with their banwagon fans, people flocked over here because the yanks have not won in a while. This is my first year on this site but ive been saying since 05 the banwagon fans we NOW have is getting out of control. Before it was a choice to say your a met fan and usually a met fan is knowledgable about his/her team and others…..Now its like everyone is a mets fan but know nothing of history or what the team had to go through to get where it is now. Alot of met fans were not here through the years of the braves and benitez. Its sad that this is our fanbase now, booing of everyone including our star player! I dont know like i said i think it comes with the territory and really at this point nothing we can do about it
Great post Dirty. I think you hit it right on the head. Last year instead of trying to pull our team out of a slump by cheering louder and supporting the team we started with the so and so sucks and boooooo. I think the players and the fans both felt entitled to win but did not do their part.
Now before anyone starts saying that I am saying the fans caused the slide I am not saying that at all. Players need to perform but still how many fanbases have you seen that during a September race boo their own team?
In 2006 everyone was enjoying the team and the vibe at Shea was great we had an unbelievable home advantage. Now based on record we have a home disadvantage. Something has to be up.
speaking of bandwagon fans, I noticed something strange the last week and a half:
I went to Shea 2 Saturdays ago, for Johan’s first home start, and while looking around the stadium I noticed something really odd: I did not see a SINGLE Mike Piazza jersey. Just about everyone was wearing Wright/Reyes/Beltran/Santana/Wagner jerseys, with a few throwback Gooden/Straw/Carter/Hernandez type jerseys. Now, the odd thing about that is if you went to a Mets game pre-2006, you would have seen 50% of the people wearing Piazza jerseys.
Then, last Saturday and then 2 nights ago I went to the games in Philly and Washington, and saw a TON of Piazza jerseys, plus a random spattering of Alfonzo/Ordonez/Ventura type jerseys as well (plus some idiot wearing an Alomar jersey. Ugh).
The conclusion I drew from this is that there are a TON of bandwagon fans in NY who are going out to games, who have just bought Mets gear in the past year or two. Whereas, if you’re a Mets fan living in another city, chances are you’ve been a Mets fan for a while (like me.)
and for the record: I wore a David Wright jersey to all 3 games, but that’s only b/c when I graduated from college I bought a replica jersey, and the 35 pounds I’ve put on since high school make it kinda embarrassing to wear my Piazza, Alfonzo or Ventura shirts…so obviously I’m not implying that anyone who wears a Wright or Reyes jersey is a bandwagon fan, just makes it more likely that they might be.
Most people here are judging Willie by his in-game moves, line-ups, etc. It goes deeper than that. A manager’s job, at ANY level, and in ANY sport is to get his team to feel confident and get the most out of his players. Willie is failing in that respect more than in any other, and that is why the frustration is so high. It has been a problem for a long time, and the fans see it continuing.
The whole team, with the exception of a few players, is performing below their ability. Think about each player, and it becomes evident…. Reyes, Castillo, Beltran, Delgado, Schneider, Smith, Heilman, Sosa, Feliciano…. The list goes on and on. It is the Manager’s job (and the most important part of the job) to get these guys focused and confident, and Willie is not getting it done.
Actually Castillo is doing much better, Schneider was doing great, Smith is doing well.
Yea, Castillo may be doing a little better, Scneider I disagree with, he already has more passed balls than he did last year. His defense hasn’t been that good. But my point isn’t about any one player, it’s about them collectively. Willie doesn’t get the team to play up to it’s potential.
well, the past balls were prob based on the new glove/not knowing the pitchers because he missed most of ST.
I actually love his D. He has a great arm, and has made some cat like moves off of bunts.
i agree. Ive always thought it was the managers job to spark a lineup via changing the order or w/e to get their ballclub moving again. Wilile did change the order and for a little while it was working but then he changed it to its original state and then again we are in a rut. Im all for sticking with your guys and getting their confidance up again, but kmon enough is enough. Heilman is extremely overused. I dont know if thats the reason he is failing or lack of confidance by constantly being put in situations that he fails in. I guess that comes with experiance and that is where willies main problem is. He’s learning on the job and thats costing us wins. Now that being said the players “like” willie and i just dont know if by yanking him in the middle of the year would inspire a change. I guess all we can do is just watch him learn by trial and error……..
Regarding Heilman, I think Steve Summers put it best last night “If everyone in the entire stadium knows that your outpitch is the changeup, why did you throw it” He needs to work on the slider and sharpen it up, Billy Wagner worked on adding a 3rd pitch, why can’t Heilman add a 4th, doesn’t he want to start
I think Matt hit the problem, he can’t locate his FB right now. His out pitch and only pitch right now that he can throw for a strike is the Cup.
I like the Coppolla sisters…
I am so addicted to this site, even though I vehemently disagree with what so many folks offer. Still, there are some really knowledgeable baseball people writing, and I like that.
We all know that if the Mets can get into a serious winning way over the course of 15-17 games, they will have clicked, and we will be enjoying the season we all have expected since January. But we’re not there, not even close. I am as sick of the horrible pitches, terrible errors, and lackluster hitting as any of you. But we are in April, and there’s no implosion, no descent. We want to finsih April well, and have a better month of May. Look for incremental improvements, and then the floodgates could open.
Keep the Faith!
I think this new spin that’s being used is completely unfair:
Now anyone who isn’t a Willie supporter is being irrational.
The guy is stubborn and boring. And the team has taken on his personality and they look like they are completely bored.
Not everything is Willie’s fault, but you can’t fire a 25 man roster. Sometimes a managerial change just has to be made. Let’s not act like better managers haven’t been let go before.
The biggest problem I have with Willie AND the Mets is that nobody else wanted him. He REFUSED to manage in the minors. And there they were, the New York Mets, ready to give the guy a contract based on what? Being a coach on a cross-town team that was going to win blindfolded?
The whole thing could have been avoided if Willie did go to the minors to manage, because he probably never would have made it out of there.
He’s not the first guy to go from player to bench coach to manager you know.
As for the irrational part, I don’t see too many big time Willie supporters on here and none that are calling you irrational for wanting a change. They call you irrational because of post that say Willie sucks or critize every move that he makes and say the opposite would have worked. Many anti-Willie posters seem to have an agenda and refuse to give him any credit for the things he does well and all the credit when we lose. In baseball there are usually a few decisions in every game that half the managers would do one way and half the other. Half the managers last night would have pulled Perez early half would have let him stay in. Letting him stay in is now the obvious answer. Why because taking him out did not work. There has to be a middle ground and that is rational.
“They call you irrational because of post that say Willie sucks or critize every move that he makes and say the opposite would have worked.”
I’ve never done that. Never taken that approach at all. You keep responding to my posts like I have, but it just has never happened.
If Bob Brenly can win a World Series Willie can too.
or Joe Torre, for that matter… one of the worst managers in the NL before he went to the Yanks, but then again, an aborted fetus could manage successfully in the AL.
Rather than rehash what has been written here regading all the negatives — Willie, Heilman, Sosa, Delgado, Reyes, etc., I’d like to try and put some things in perpective.
First, right now, even with all the negatives, we are 10-4 vs the Phils, Nats, Marlins (of course that means we’re 1-6 against everyone else we’ve played, but let’s try and embrace something positive). The fact that we’re 8-3 vs Phils and Nats says something, since those two teams really put it to us last season.
Second, let’s look at other teams. The Phils — even with Utley and Burrell hitting the snot out of the ball, Howard is struggling and they are 12-11. The Braves are 11-11. Shoot, Torre’s Dodgers are 9-13 and look at how Andruw Jones is struggling. Does anyone really think the Marlins can win the division?
In the AL, the Tigers and Indians (Sabathia is 0-3) are below .500 and even the exalted Yanks are only 12-11 with their “all-world” lineup.
The Mets are not the only team with struggles and hovering around .500. Some the “supposed” elite teams have had their share of struggles, too. It’s still early and way too soon to panic.
LET’S GO METS!
Good post, good pespective.
I think the reason alot of people (myself included) overreact with this team is because of the collapse and the truth that we are NOT over it. As much as we get annoyed at the press and announcers who constantly bring it up, we also are not over it. Its alot bigger i think than we care to think and until we can turn the page we will overreact with games like that one.
2005-we were hungry
2006-we proved we were the team to beat but just came up a little short
2007-we played as if it was a given we were supposed to be in the playoffs because of how last year ended
2008-is still being written
Its hard to remember and keep in mind its not how you start but rather how you finish. The phillies/cards and rockies proved that point. Theres still hope, i mean the marlins are NOT going to win the NL east guys.
Cerrone get your fan base under control for chrissakes they are embarrasing themselves
- Your token yankee fan
Willie for Girardi straight up. Deal?
What’s his record over in NY right now?
Doesn’t matter because it’s not happening. It was 99% tongue in cheek. Well, probably more like 100%.
I know it’s not happening but my point is that the Yankee’s are not doing great either with Joe or their 200 million dollar payroll.
I’m thinking a trade of Leyland for Willie may work, both teams have good lineups but off to a slow, very slow start. Willie can go back to A League and we can get some new blood at the helm.
side note; nice to see Marlon Anderson not give away his at bat and knock one out, lets hope he starts hittin too
While some fans are bandwagoners, there are new Mets fans each year who didnt jump over from the Yankees. There are a lot of reasons why fans have those freshly made Wright and Reyes jerseys. These people are made up of impressionable young kids looking for a good team, people who were never really baseball people but are looking for something to do, people who are new to New York and looking for some fun, girlfriends who are trying to appease their Met boyfriends, ladies who love David Wright……it goes on and on. Still most people are fans.
Whether you are a long-time fan or a new fan you are a FAN. So you havent been through the Mets-Cardinals wars of the 80’s. So you didn’t cringe at “The Worst Team Money Could Buy.” That’s ok. You want to be a fan and you are WELCOME. We all started somewhere. We all have a reason why we became a Mets Fan.
I’m beyond complainng today (cue applause).
It’s just tired.
No ranting about Willie’s incompetence, the inept lineup, the lack of power, the horrible bullpen, etc…..I’m taking the day off. With ATL coming to town this weekend, my advice is for everyone to chill out for now, b/c it may just get worse by this time next Monday. Or it may get better. Ladies and Gentlemen, welcome to the 2008 Mets Rollercoaster sponsored by Citi and Guiseppe Franco..
I will say this though. I am done with bashing Delgado’s performance. IT’s another level. I am now convinced that he is profiting from his poor play. He is tanking ON PURPOSE. He’s involved in some high-stakes illegal gambling ring in Puerto Rico and has made an absolut killing on betting against the Mets this year. I’m convinced. Looking at it from that side, it starts to make a bit more sense, doesn’t it?
interesting perspective
very unlikely but very funny
could u imagine….oh my!
Here’s the problem:
Expectations don’t equal reality.
“Andre Randolph, Willie and Gretchen’s only son, played a couple of years in the Yankee system and now works as a baseball instructor in New Jersey. Andre recalls how Willie expressed concern, even in the middle of the season, about the Mets’ penchant for playing games on auto-pilot, as if they could summon a hot streak at will. There was not much urgency that the manager saw.
“He had that strong feeling about his team, and unfortunately that feeling turned out to be right,” Andre says.
Says Willie, “I felt all year long we didn’t have that killer instinct consistently that we should’ve had. We had at it times when our backs were against the wall, and we did show some fight (the Mets went 8-2 after the first four-game sweep by the Phillies), but you have to be careful when you put your back against the wall, because you can’t always get off that wall. In the end, that’s (exactly) what happened.”
Randolph says he believed in his players’ character right to the final game, confident they would right themselves, and admits now the faith was misplaced: “I definitely gave them too much credit. I was looking for them to reveal to me that they were ready to be champions, but they showed me they weren’t ready.
“It’s a tough thing to look at in retrospect, but that’s the truth.”
He faults himself for not going at them harder at times, for not pointedly “telling them what time it is” on two or three occasions. His instinct was to have a meeting before the Phillies series in mid-September, and he didn’t follow it, not wanting to seem panicky. There were behind-the-scenes meetings, for sure – after the sweep in Philadelphia, Randolph was as impassioned as a Sunday preacher, imploring his people to take ownership of the division, to prove they were the best and not wait for anyone to hand it to them, and kicked a waste basket on his way out.”
—-excerpt from an offseason Daily News article written by Wayne Coffey 11/18/07
READ IT AND WEEP!!!
You write that Delgado is probably done if he doesn’t heat up by Memorial Day. But then what?
He’s useless on the bench. You can’t trade him. Do you release him and eat his gargantuan salary?
Maybe the Wilpons should take a page out of Steinbrenner’s book and hire a PI to dig up dirt on him so they can get rid of him on some morals clause violation. (Sorry, Dave Winfield!)