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The Mets (11–11) lost to the Braves (12–11) by the score of 6 to 3 in Shea Stadium.
For a recap and boxscore, go to SNY.
…never in a million years did i think Braves RHP Jarr Jurrjens would go six innings, considering how bad he looked in the third inning, during which he walked-in three straight batters to give the Mets a temporary lead…as David Wright said after the game, his team had to knock jurrjens out of the game at that point, and they didn’t, instead allowing him to get back in a groove, which eventually shut down the Mets…
…seriously, night after night, it’s like this team gives itself one opportunity to score a ton of runs – and if they do not take advantage, that’s it…they may as well leave their bats in the dugout…
…David Wright and Jose Reyes were a combined 0 for 7…in fact, the team’s only two hits came from Raul Casanova and Marlon Anderson…that is not sustainable…
…in other words, give a game ball to the home plate umpire, who did his best to keep the Mets in the game tonight…
…it’s hard to get on Mike Pelfrey, who allowed five runs in five innings on nine hits while walking four…he had control issues tonight, starting with the first batter of the game and he never got back on track…look, as we said all spring, he is a young, inexperienced pitcher, who needs more time in Triple-A, and to expect him to dominate every single start and help to repeatedly stop losing streaks is a bit unfair…he’s 2–1 with a 4.43 ERA following four starts, which is about what i would have thoughts he’d be at this point in the season…
…it should be noted, in a loss, Scott Schowenweis, Pedro Feliciano and Duaner Sanchez allowed no runs, while Joe Smith let up one…
John Maine will face Tim Hudson today in Shea Stadium, as the Mets continue their three-game series with the Braves at 1 pm.
i was at the game last nite. It’s really getting sickening to be a mets fan. In the 5th inning, we were tied, close game, men on base, etc…it’s exciting..it’s the braves…there were more people doing the wave in the upper deck and mezz, and more people in my section in the field level turning around and WATCHING the wave, than the were people watching the game.
THEN, these “fans” have the audacity to BOO when pelfrey gives up a HR, or we don’t put the ball in play wiht a man on base.
Hey, im not saying dont have fun. You paid good money to get the tickets, have a great time…but come on. Middle of the game on a Friday nite, first game back home, against the HATED braves with a young pitcher who needs our support on the mound….and it’s Wave City @ Shea….
Delgado gets announced as a pinch hitter against a lefty to start the 9th, the few fans that STAYED at game booed him unmercifully…then when he K’d, it came even harder
Guess if Delgado had started a wave, the fans woulda loved him.
IN ANY CASE, i whole heartedly agree with your assessment of our offense. We seem to ONLY score in ONE inning, or like 2 tops, and thats it. We can never take the extra step. Hopefully this will change when Alou comes back and Delgado is dropped to 7th
ugh….they should allow the death penalty for people who participate in the wave. I don’t think I’ve ever been less attracted to my girlfriend than when she participated in a wave at Nationals Park the other night, and that includes when she wears her Yankees jersey.
Hey big chart, I was in the Mezz last night and I did not participate in the wave and agree that it sometimes takes over fans attention but you should know, the stadium stood up and looked backwards because there was a huge fight between a Mets fan and 2 Braves fans. Punches, thrown beer bottles and popcorn, and even the Loge got involved throwing stuff at the Braves fan. It was a pretty disgusting display.
On Delgado, the booing was simply unnecessary but I will say, Willie should not have sent him up there. If you are going to give Delgado a day off to clear his head, give him a day off. Why send him up there, to start an inning no less, when you KNOW he is going to get boo’d?
That all said, it is embarrassing to be a Mets fan at Shea these days. I think it is much worse than even a couple of years ago. People boo mercilessly for an error, which happens in baseball. A strikeout gets boo’d. Every little thing draws a tremendous boo or worse, grown men yelling obscenities while kids sit there trying to watch their heroes play. Maybe “success” has brought bandwagon, unintelligent fans but it really was not fun to be at the game last night and it was because of the fans, not the way the Mets played.
seriously. the posters on this site (probably the biggest mets fans), seem to be pretty outraged by all the booing–as am I. Is there any way to spread the message to a wider base of mets fans that it’s getting ridiculous and makes mets fans look like some of the worst in the league, and maybe –dare I say– phillies fans…
I’m just as angry as they are when delgado can’t hit or when beltran can’t come through in the clutch, and I understand that buying your ticket gives you the right to booo…but please, let’s be respectful and positive. let’s the show the team some support. it’s April and collapse or no collapse last season, the negativity is out of control.
I was booing — At the umpire and at the Braves. I thought Pelf pitched fine. I didn’t understand any of the calls the ump was making.
It’s simple really — You can tell our players are making hitting way to complicated and as is Willie. Just wait for your pitch and hit it like Chipper Jones or Gregor Blanco did. You could tell how calm they were at the plate and they knew exactly when Pelf threw one up the middle before Pelf did. Willie’s signaling Reyes to bunt and all kinds of crap. There were pitchers we should’ve been hitting. Maybe this will all change when Delgado is dropped to backup and we get freakin’
Xavier Nady.
Yeah, I was at the game too (in the upper deck and it was pathetic how many idiots were doing the wave — I sat the whole time). #1– the wave peaked in about 1985; #2–even if the wave was still cool, you’re not supposed to do it when your team is in the field…
just stupid.
and on another note, I was really embarrassed to be a mets fan last nite, I brought my girlfriend there (her 1st game in years), and there was nothing but fights, and security running all over and drunks throwing Bud bottles next to little kids. I was planning on taking my son to a game soon, and I have to seriously re-think that now. it was really disgusting.
I was giving this some thought.
I see a number of people who are putting down posters who are unhappy. But I never see those people come up with anything other than “it’s early” or “you’re being irrational”
So I am going to make a little bit of a challenge to people who post here and get down on all of the “whining”
I’d like to see some examples here of things you believe are going to turn around. Instead of calling people out for being whiners or complainers, and without referencing the calendar, what kinds of improvements are you willing to predict right now. I’m not talking about anyone being hired/fired/traded/ etc. Looking at this time the way it is built right now, what are some of the things you believe will improve going forward. Maybe coming up with some ideas will get people to calm down just a little bit.
It’s early it’s only April…It’s early it’s only May…..They’ll bounce back after the break…same old BS, just like last year. Face this team for what it is .500 at best, people need to stop drinking the Koolaid. The only reason Omar even signed Santana was to put fannies in the seats, afterall they do have a new ballpark to pay for. How else can you rationalize trading away arguably your 2 best pitching prospects when you were facing a rotation with old man El Duque and old man Pedro?
you rationalize it by looking at what you got. johan freakin santana trumps any prospect the mets had in their system. this might have been the biggest no-brainer trade in the history of the mets organization…maybe even baseball (apologies to mr ruth). none of the pitchers traded away weren’t projected to be on the team for another 2 years. look everyone is frustrated with the team right now, but saying something like that is just dumb.
Call it dumb all you want. I’m sure the Wilpons are upset selling all those extra tickets and jerseys when santana pitches.
you’ve convinced me….i hate johan now…god forbid a business tries to make money
that just makes it more of a no-brainer. That’s money the team will have in the next 7 years for better prospects, free agents, etc. Questioning the Santana trade really puts you in a logical hole here I’m afraid, buddy… Gomez is hitting 200 after his fast start (though 2/3 last night) and who knows if we’ll ever hear from the other three. You make that trade 10 times out of 10.
Look I never said I HATED Johan, and you hit the nail right on the head, it’s a business!! It’s about bringing people to the ballpark and making money!! They do whatever it takes to get you there and make their money, and Johan filled the bill nicely. I think this is all they care about, it becomes painfully obvious when you look at the direction the team has taken. There was no accountability for last years collapse other than bringing in Johan freaking Santana. Money talks and BS walks.
C’mon, for a big-market team like the Mets, the organization’s goals and the fans goals are closely aligned. The owner will make more money the better the team does, so your argument is largely meaningless.
Last year everything was fine until mid-September so I don’t get it.
Right now we are .500 and every one of our hitters are underachieving. Should David Wright and Reyes and Castillo and Beltran hit like normal we will be cruising. Our pitching has actually been fine outside of Heilman and Sosa so once again I have no idea what the point of this post is.
Last point I must make — Right now every team in the NL East but the MARLINS is a .500 team, just to show how early in the season it is, so shut your face.
It’s extremely early. EXTREMELY. So early that Beltran and Reyes combined are hitting .230. It’s time for you to shut up.
john maine will pitch better.
Reyes is a young man struggling with being The Jose Reyes .. I still see him coming out of it and having a big year (see David Wright’s end of 2006-beginning of 2007).
Eventually (sooner than later by the looks of it) we’ll move on from Delgado, and from the looks of last night, Marlon’s ready for the job. While that’s not ideal, it’s at least not the black hole we have there now.
Beltran can’t possibly hit this poorly all year as well.
Pelfrey has looked like he can actually pitch at this level, a few growing pains notwithstanding, he’s actually making it to the 5th and 6th innings now and not getting knocked out of the box early.. last night he could have screwed the pooch in the first and not made it out alive, but he didn’t lose his mind with the tight strike zone and he bore down and got out of it.
That was for my own sake as much as anyone else’s ;)
Reyes will come around, as will Beltran. Both are too talented and too young for them to not hit for the entire season. Alou will come back and scorch the ball for a few weeks before he inevitably gets hurt again. Wright’s gonna have another 30-30 year (once Beltran starts giving him some protection.) I guarantee that some rookie will be called up from the Minors and will outperform expectations, though I don’t know who that is.
Where exactly is this crystal ball your gazing into? I sure could use some of it’s wisdom.
it’s the one called “hope” and “optimism” .. sure this team makes it hard, but until the games are played, the positive outcome is as possible as the negative.
I’m answering the question with my opinions. Jose Reyes is one of the most talented players in baseball, he is just in a rut that he’ll come out of. Look at Wright in the 2nd half of ‘06 and April last year. He was fine, no?
Beltran is still in his prime and averages 30 homers a season. He’ll come around.
Wright is a phenomenal player, and is just in a mini-slump right now, partially because he’s relied upon to do too much.
Alou always hits well when he’s healthy.
I don’t think there’s ever been a season in MLB history where a team hasn’t had some rookie come up and outperform expectations. It ALWAYS happens. Now, it could just be someone like Timo Perez, who only has an impact for a few weeks and never becomes a great player, or someone like Reyes or Wright, who has an impact for a whole half of a season and become stars. Probably more likely to be someone like Timo, but it will happen.
Juan Pierre was also considered one of the most talented players in the game.
what’s your point? Some guys fulfill their potential, some guys fail. All guys have a period where they struggle and have to come through the other side and make adjustments. The jury’s still out on Jose.
My only point was that there are no guarantees in life…
good one. Juan Pierre NEVER made the Baseball America Top 100 prospects list. Jose Reyes was the #3 prospect in baseball in 2003. Got another one for me?
agreed .. no guarantees. But that still opens the possibility that he succeeds, you can’t guarantee that he won’t! I refuse to give up on the season this early (how’s that for another way to say “it’s only april ;)… Until mathematical elimination, there’s always hope (sometimes, longer, look at Hillary) :D
Just because he never made this list doesn’t mean he wasn’t highly touted…..
maybe he was “highly touted” but he was nowhere NEAR as highly touted as Reyes. Reyes was acknowledged, while still in the minors, as one of the most talented prospects in baseball. Then, in the majors, he put up numbers that Pierre could only dream of. Pierre’s career high for homers is 2, Reyes’ is 19. Pierre’s career high for triples is 13, Reyes’ is 17 (twice). Stolen bases, Pierre 65, Reyes 78. Pierre has had an OPS+ over 100 once in his 9 year career, Reyes has already done it 3 times. There’s absolutely no comparison between the two of them. The only thing Pierre was good at was batting average and stealing bases, and Reyes is a better base stealer. Plus, Pierre pretty much sucks in the field, while Reyes is above average.
Message to above — Juan Pierre also doesn’t know what a strike zone is and is over 30 and has a tremendously weak swing.
Reyes hit two really hard liners that unfortunately got caught. Pierre is a lesser version of Luis Castillo.
Sorry: should say “looking at this team the way it is built right now…”
I’m so sick of hearing how Pelfrey needs this Pelfrey needs that. Didn’t he pitch in the Bigs last year? I didn’t see the 22 yo Jair Jurrjens having a problem last night except for one inning…he’s actually been pretty damn good all year. Keep drinking the Koolaid
koolaid has nothing to do with it. Young pitchers need time to develop (see the drama in the Bronx). Saying one particular pitcher didn’t have trouble in one particular outing doesn’t change this. Expecting a kid in his first couple of years to dominate every start is just going to get you disappointment.
at least pelf gets through 6 innings once in a while..unlike ollie perez
Overall, I feel Pelfrey has pitched acceptably so far. What’ I’d like to see is how he does when Schneider returns. His two last starts were his worst and they were with Casanova. Schneider may be a lot better than Casanova at keeping Pelfrey on track.
I’m just curious where in the world is Jose’s head? He’s been MIA since last July. How can a player change so much in the middle of the year? First half he was a legit all-star, getting on base and getting walks too. Now he looks like a league average or worse player almost every day. It’s so puzzling. Is it Willie? HoJo? Has success gotten to his head? Too much partying? What?
Agreed. Pelfrey needs an experienced backstop. The platoon of Casanova and Molina will not work. Right now the injuries are mounting…but by all means, this shouldn’t be an excuse. The media hyped the expectations…Beltran hyped the expectations…Now it’s time to put your money where your mouth is…More of this…and chaos will ensue.
Yesterday many of us discussed how Heilman may be at a psychological disadvantage. Reyes is not far behind. He looks lost at the plate and…as much as I hate to say it…at shortstop.
Reyes smacked to liners to right that happened to find Francoeurs glove. But he was hittin last night, and hittin well.
This team is gutless. I have been a fan for 40 years and I hate to watch this team. Reyes, his pitch selection is getting worse. Delgado? If I managed the other teams I would fine any pitcher that threw him anything but a slider down and in. The only guy on this team that gets a clutch hit is Wright, and even he is slumping. Pitching? Hey, Mr. Pelphrey, unless you are going to throw one at the hips of the left handed hitters to make them much less comfortable, how about just throwing it straight down the middle and letting nature take its course. Mr. Perez & Mr. Heilman, GROW UP! Stop being such babies on the mound. Can someone on this starting staff besides Santana goes 7+ innings more than once a month? And I have not even gotten to the manager and the general manager yet. I am getting tired of them, too.
pelFrey. pelFrey. pelFrey.
can we start phining people who spell it the Philly way?
btw, PFH, don’t take this personally, a LOT of people on here spell his name wrong. Just annoys me, seeing as he’s a Met and all.
If we could learn how to spell Mientkiewicz, we can learn how to spell Pelfrey! :)
Just kidding.
(I still can’t spell Scheonweise, and I know that ain’t how!)
well he sucks, so who cares haha
Not taken personal at, all…I should get it right.
Castillo, did you guys hear the stat last night, he has swung at only three of the last 41 3-1 pitches. You might find his picture under the word gutless. Hey, Mr. Beltran, I am so glad you told Reyes to go back and be himself, did you have to mean swing at everything as well? While you are at it, how about a big hit at some point this year, you know, one that does not let a rookie pitcher on the ropes off the hook. Mr. Randolph, I know it is not your style to publically call out a veteran, but how about once in a while just so they get the point that you are angry, and stop protecting them so much. The Joe Torre style of managing, not only makes players too comfortable, it destroys bullpens as well. You know just like you are doing less than one month into the season. As for the general manager, can you trade for some basbeball players and not just guys that “have tools”? How many John Maines do you think there are out there? How is Mr. Burgos’ rehab going? I am sure I can think of some more, but hell that would be a whole new blog, assuming one of those has not been started yet.
Shea Satdium ..where old washed up players go to collect one more paycheck…
Sure is a depressing time for us Mets fans. We all had so much hope for this team that Omar put together.
Lets look on the bright side. At least we have a real #1 starter and a great closer. If we can only get the rest going everything will be OK.
I hope Omar can find a way to get a big bat in here. In my opinion,Delgado It’s sad for him.
I refuse to feel sad for any major leaguer with all the money and endorsements thay have. For the money he’s making if he feels he can no longer perform he should just retire rather than bring down an entire team around him.
I hope Omar can find a way to get a big bat in here.
You know, one of the best hitters of all time is still looking for a job…
Frank Thomas? Mike Piazza? Sammy Sosa? Barry Bonds? Who, pray tell, are you talking about? I hear Willie Mays is unemployed these days too…
the 800 pound gorilla in the room…i kinda hope the mets go down that road…we do need another bat
look
while i agree with you statement given the latest state of events…
this board will go fn berserk if we sign bonds.
I would be so happy if the mets signed bonds. it would show that they were actually committed to winning. (and shut up all the fans who think they are not) Unfourtanatley he’s being blackballed by the mlb. If old, grumpy, “bad clubhouse guy”, who can still hit, Frank Thomas, can get signed in only 3 days where is Bonds? Well if the Mets are willing to go against Selig and pay over slot in the draft, then they should sign the guy who would help them win the divison this year.
Bonds?!? Be serious… please. Do you really think that Barry Bonds would make this team a winner? This team has enough gutless players. This team has enough players that are just here for a paycheck. What position would Barry Bonds play? First base? Left Field? Think about it.
Yes I do think bonds would make this team a winner. Whether you like him or not, you can’t deny that hes a better hitter than angel pagan. And he would do much better than Delgadoi n the 5th spot. He would currently lead the team in homers/rbi’s and obp. What i would do is platoon alou and bonds when alou comes back. Lefty/Rigthy. You limit their aperarences, so hopefully they both stay healthy, and they both mash lefties/righties respectivley. The two of them together is one outstanding hitter.
And he’s not playing for a paycheck. He has said that he would accept a huge paycut. He just wants to play baseball.
If Barry Bonds is the difference between closing shea in october or watching the braves or phills in the playoffs, your telling me youd rather watch the phills?
I agree about Delgado .. I really liked the guy following his first couple of years here… in 2006 he was one of my favorites on the team. His performance in the NLDS that year climbed him higher. But since then it’s been a freefall. It has to be tough for a guy with that type of skill to suddenly be no good at something he’s always been able to do. That said, it’s a business, it’s a sport, we must move on with no mercy. And yeah, it’s hard to feel too bad for a guy who will make 16 million dollars this year regardless of how he performs.
Hammer(John Milner?)
Good point. I’ll bet he thinks he can get his stroke back. But since he hasn’t got it back by now, only a slim chance of that happening.
Are you actually old enough to remeber John Milner?…HERE HERE!
did anyone at the game see the melee that happened in the crowd? what happened? Gary said so we went from mixed martial arts to baseball lol.
I was wondering that too .. the guys on the Braves telecast talked about how dangerous it was to wear your braves jersey to Shea, but the camera never panned to the altercation. Shea is becoming a dark place.
Shea is becoming a dark place….love that line! Honestly, it’s really only becoming a sign of the times…especially in the Northeast. Have you ever been to a Phillies game wearing a Mets Jersey?
agreed .. signs of the times, and I’ve only been to Shea in Mets regalia, so I can’t say if it was just as bad for visiting fans years ago. And I’m sure it’s just as bad, if not worse in Phillie and the Bronx.
The stadium stood up and looked backwards because there was a huge fight between a Mets fan and 2 Braves fans. Punches, thrown beer bottles and popcorn, and even the Loge got involved throwing stuff at the Braves fan. It was a pretty disgusting display.
My wife, a Braves fan (I know but she actually follows the team very closely), and a noticeably pregnant fan at that, had many fans yell at her last night and even had a fan throw ketchup packets at her.
A dark place indeed
I like how Bobby Cox got himself ejected last night. He went out there and got the ump’s anger redirected and he took the frustration for Jurrjens. Yes, Jurrjens continued to struggle with his pitches that inning, but I think Cox getting ejected helped Jurrens get his head in order and control his temper.
Good point, when was the last time Willie Gump inspired the troops by getting tossed? I honestly can’t remember…….
something we agree about….has willie ever gotten ejected?
“Well, when I first saw it I jumped on it right away I jumped up on the top step to see if Angel (Hernandez) was going to call something there. I know that with Angel it’s like fighting a losing battle . . . the night before he was at home plate and I was all over his case and so he didn’t want to see my face, I probably would have gotten thrown out right away . . .when it happened I looked at Angel and pointed to him and he just kind of threw his hands up and you know there was no point in fighting him cause he didn’t call it.”
This is our manager.
It couldn’t possibly be any more vanilla….
I’m not even sure it inspires the troops to get ejected, but it can help to get the ump mad at the manager rather than the player. And, it helps the player let his own anger subside when he sees his manager take it for him. Cox is no fool and he knows that the manager was far more expendable than Jurrjens at that point. He really NEEDED Jurrjens to go deeper in that game than the 3rd inning.
normally, I don’t go for the whole yelling manager thing, but I have to agree, in this case, Cox pulled a great move there. He’s the rare balance between the “firey manager” and the “player’s manager”. He seems to manage to only channel his anger at the umpires, unlike someone like Lou Piniella who seems to spew his anger at all comers.
Another thing to at least think about:
Many of the borderline calls go the Braves’ way. Maybe there’s a reason why at least SOME of the time.
When there’s a very close call to be made, you have to figure at least some of the time the umps are going to take the path of least resistance. Go against the Braves and they’re smelling Bobby Cox’s cigar breath for the next 15 minutes. Go against the Mets? Well, Lo Duca ain’t here anymore, so nothing.
I admit that it’s reaching, but you have to figure when it’s getting late and the crew just wants to go home, Willie ain’t gonna be the one to make their night last any longer.
I’ll save everyone time today. Maine will pitch decently for about 6 innings, giving up, ohhhh, I’ll say 3 runs. Hudson will completely shut down the Mets despite numerous opportunities with runners in scoring position. Around the 7th or 8th inning the Mets bullpen will come in behind around 2 runs and then put the game out of reach.
Postgame conference, Willie: We gotta just get ourselves into a nice little groove. We gotta start picking each other up. Our bats need a little juice.
The End
lol perfectly put
well in response to the “what are we gonna do instead of compmlain” post, here’s what i’ve been saying, and i truly feel this is the case.
In Mid May, we’re gonna be a different team. By then, Alou should be back and healthy and getting his ABs, which adds a whole new dynamic to the lineup. It also pushed Delgado to 7th in the order, IF HE”S EVE ON THE TEAM by then. (I would hope the Mets try to trade Heilman to maybe the Angels for Kendry Morales, a young, fairly hot, 1B prospect blocked by Kotchman).
Pedro will be back, and he’ll be effective if he’s healthy. That allows us to finally cut Sosa and move Nelson Figueroa into his spot. If we do trade Heilman, Matt Wise will be off the DL by then, and we have some kids (Kunz, Muniz, Collazo, Ruddy Lugo) that can contribute if Wise falters again.
By replacing Heilman and Sosa with Nelson and Wise, and hopefully gettin rid of Delgado (with a young possible stud who if he hit .205 would outproduce delgado), you’re ridding yourselves of the “negativity” that we’re all upset about and infusing new blood into the team. That righ there just changes the psyche of the team, it changes the complexion.
This is the only case i can think of where going WITH the “devil you don’t konw” makes sense. Because, I am NOT comfortable with Heilman, Sosa, or Delgado in a big spot on this team.
But i’d rather see what Figgy can do with 2 on and 2 outs in the 7th, Matt Wise coming in with a 2 run lead in the 6th or 7th, and what virtually ANYONE else can do in place of Delgado.
And im a delgado fan believe it or not. But he’s hurting this team immensely.
If those few little moves can be done, and we can get more than a month out of Alou and ONE start out of Pedro, I think we’ll be in GREAT shape. GREAT SHAPE.
It all sounds great, but … you’re sure counting on Alou here. I think the Mets will be lucky to get 60 games out of Alou this year. He’s 42 and the Mets seem to want to ignore that. Ideally he’d be used sparingly, but the Mets can’t afford that. They need Alou to be Alou for 100 games, which is asking a lot.
You’re counting on Pedro and Alou not only coming back, which is completely up in the air right now, but also producing. If the Mets are going to go anywhere this year, the current team has to step it up. I don’t know if they have it in them.
The entire make-up and direction and mindset of this team is what is failing them. They have the talent to go deep into the post-season. They won’t. They look like they’ve given up. I hope they lose 20 of the next 25 so moves can be made. This team will not win. David Wright needs a team behind him that will follow his lead. The leaders of this team now – Beltran and Delgado – are quiet, unemotional, and honestly don’t seem to care too much about losing. They set the standard in the clubhouse. There is no fire or passion. The Mets have the best pitcher in baseball and two young stars in Reyes and Wright. The team must be built around that nucleus. It will take a couple of years, but to continue to put band-aids on a team of gutless veterans is disgusting to watch.
And no team in their right mind is taking on Carlos Delgado. Delgado will be on the Mets for the rest of this season.
grr….my post was swallowed. Let’s try this again, this time without the link. The last few nights there has been some discussion about Bobby V. and whether he would be a good choice to bring back should the Mets decide to fire Willie (a position I’m really starting to lean towards). Well, some people (cough:therealsince86:cough) were adamant that Bobby V. was a mediocre manager, proven by fact that he’s still managing in Japan, and insist that if he were offered a Major League job (ANY ML Job), he would jump at the chance. I found a Sports Illustrated article from last April that seems to prove differently. My post got swallowed when I tried to post the link, so if you want to read the whole article google “Bobby Valentine Sports Illustrated” and it’s the first link. But the most relevant part is the first paragraph on page 2:
“Managing the Marines is, in many ways, the perfect job for Valentine. He wields near-complete control over the team — acting as both coach and de facto general manager — in a city that idolizes him. At roughly $3.5 million a year, he makes more money than any major league manager in the U.S. except Joe Torre. The U.S. press dogged Valentine during his tenures in Texas and New York, but the Japanese media is docile to a fault. A year and a half ago the Los Angeles Dodgers and the Tampa Bay Devil Rays called to try to lure Valentine back to manage in the U.S., but he didn’t seriously pursue either lead. “This is an opportunity of a lifetime,” he said of running the Marines, “and I’m living it.”
so the point is still he doesn’t want to come back…
either he’s no good and we don’t want him back, or he’s good and doesn’t want to come back.
either way he’s not an option.
true, but at least this way I win the argument…
At the very least I’d like to see the team make an overture for him. Who knows, maybe he’d consider coming back to the Mets, where he had lot of success and was beloved by the fans. Even in 2002, I don’t ever remember there being as much vitriol towards Bobby V. as there is towards Willie now. The media hated him, but the media hated Parcells too, and I think most people agree that he was better for the NY teams than the guys who preceded and succeeded him.
I just tried to post a youtube link of Bobby in Japan, but I guess you can’t do that.
Just go ahead and look for “Bobby’s Cha-Cha”
He’s having more fun than pretty much anyone and everyone in Queens right now.
It’s early ……..BUT IT’S GETTING LATE FAST!!!!!!
Team is too old, Reyes is soooo overrated The only ones I wouldn’t trade are Wright and Santana.
Need new manager who will kick some ass and new GM who can evaluate talent. That being said……. LESTS GO METS!!!!!
I really like Willie and I’ve supported him 100% up to this point. But he is constantly taking a wait and see approach to almost every situation. It was working batting Church 2nd and Willie abandoned it. His pitchers struggle and he’s late getting them out of there. I’m losing confidence in Willie.
Ya know what, I’m really sick and tired of listening to this. You people all need to snap out of your pessimistic ruts your stuck in. You’re all still down about the collapse coupled with the fact that this team missed the boat for the past two seasons……..AND I UNDERSTAND THAT!!! However, booing this team is NOT going to help……..and if I hear one more person say that booing shouldn’t affect a professional athlete, then ya know what…….neither should CHEERING!!! But that’s a load of crap……I watched Delgado get a standing ovation walking up for an at-bat for NO REASON during his slump last year and he hit a homerun because of it.
We’re 11-11 right now. It’s still April. I’ll admit that this team is horrible in quite a few areas (Heilman, Delgado, Sosa) But the others (Beltran,Reyes)…..you can’t worry about those guys. We’ve already seen Beltran hit like 8 double or something in the first two weeks, and run great everywhere…….and we’ve seen Reyes in amazing bursts already. If one of these two guys starts performing with consistancy then its gonna make a huge difference, forget about if both do, which they SHOULD!
Starting pitching…..
Santana (Great!)
Perez (Great!……don’t worry Willie will let pitch deeper soon.)
Maine (poor start, but solid in his last few….and will be great!)
Pelfrey (Has stepped up, 5 runs last night is one bad game after two GREAT games….lets wait til he’s 2-2 or maybe even 2-3 before we even start to consider he’s doing bad, cause frankly he’s doing good.)
Figueroa (Did you ever expect this, be thankful.)
Relief Pitching…..
Wagner (AMAZING!)
Sanchez (AMAZING!)
Smith(Flashes of great, with flashes of young age…all together solid and trustworthy granted he’s used properly)
Sosa(Ok, how many times has he inheritted a bases loaded jam already? Any pitcher used as much as him this early and put in bases loaded jams might give up some damaging hits, thats just statistics friends. He’s gotten us out of big jams too and otherwise has been able to rack up a few holds and do fine.)
Heilman (I’m worried, I think he’s tipping his pitches or something…If this is our weak link we’ll prob survive.)
We have great starting pitching.
We have great relief pitching.
PITCHING WINS……..
Our hitting is there……see Wright, Pagan, Church, Schneider, Beltran, even Reyes.
Our speed is there…..Reyes, Wright, Pagan, Beltran, Castillo
This team just has to click. Last year we didn’t go on a 5 game winning streak until like august or something…..AND THIS YEAR….we did that early on to rebound to over .500 after a lackluster start.
THAT’S A REALLY GOOD SIGN PEOPLE.
STOP BOOING and START CHEERING!
Well I was at the game last night.
I didn’t boo, but what was I supposed to cheer?
OK, I did cheer the runs that walked in, but other than that the team did NOTHING. Hudson and Smoltz don’t give you much to get excited about either.
Anyway, I’m off to Shea.
Let’s Go Mets! (please?)
Delgado did not hit the home run because of the cheering.
Do you think the majority of people WANT to boo?
You think fans who pay money to go to a stadium like booing their own team?
What gives you a monopoly on defining fan behavior?
You are just as delusionally optimistic as those who are pessimistically critically, except those who believe this team is in trouble have some basis in fact after last season.
Nothing but blind faith would lead someone to be as optimistic as you, and many of us had our faith exhausted last year.
So excuse us for being a little more cynical and grounded in reality this time around.
“PITCHING WINS……..”
Not if you can’t score as many runs as the other team
Agree. He did that the other night with Perez. I understand sometimes you have leave the pitcher work out of the jam but Ollie was over the place. He did not have it that nite so Willie had to step in and act on it. Nothing wrong with having confidence in your players but if they are not preforming remember they still get paid and you lose your job.
A poster some way up the page noted Gair’s comment that Castillo has only swung on 3 of his last 41 3-1 counts. Anyone who wants to defend Castillo as a gamer who uses speed and a good eye to make productive outs, look at that statistic. Unless a pitcher is totally erratic, a 3-1 count is almost always a guaranteed hittable strike. That’s why they call it a hitter’s count, as you all konw. Apparently Castillo thinks that his best chance of getting on base is to hope that the pitcher can’t locate the strike zone.
I know it’s not ALWAYS popular to bash Castillo’s contributions (or lack thereof) to the team as a reason for the Mets’ sluggish offense, but it is key. Defenders point to his OBP as proof of his ability, but OPS or OPS+ are much more valuable in figuring out who can help produce runs with their bat. Of course, Castillo ranks well below the league average in these statistics, usually because any time he gets on base, he only gets on first base. And as we can see, that is often because he goes up to the plate looking for a walk, often not even bothering to swing the bat.
These statistical woes are compounded by the fact that Reyes can’t ever seem to get on base. If Wright is going to knock in some runs, he is going to need a #2 hitter who can actually make it to second or third base on his own. Slappy infield singles and bunts won’t do it. And please, on a team desperate to show any kind of spark, could he at least swing on some 3-1 pitches instead of flipping a coin and hoping for the best? He epitomizes the laziness and lack of urgency in the Mets’ offense.
But he is only one of the problems. You guys have already skewered Delgado oh so eloquently, so I thought I’d focus on the other black hole in the batting order. Who knows, maybe the Mets will turn it around today!
where’d my comment go?
p
The bottom line is this Mets team. Has little to no fight in them. Its basically the same play we saw the end of last season. If a team gets ahead of them at any point. The game is over. They are the only team in MLB without a come from behind win. Seriously that says a lot about this team. They just fold when a team grabs the lead.
Hear! Hear!
maybe i should copy my posts first, it seems there is something eating them this morning….
I said:
Maybe it’s time we all adjust our expectations of this team. It’s 65-67 in its last 132 games. I know we all want a championship-caliber team, but I don’t think we have one.
If we all just accepted that, there’d be less disappointed, anger, and frustration. I remember back to a time when the Mets were Lovable Losers, and it was okay because they were our Lovable Losers. I don’t want a losing ballclub, but I do want to love my team, which is hard to do when I try to reconsile my expectations against what I see on the field.
I’m changing my perspective here of this team. It’s average. There, I said it. If it goes off on a tear and pulls a Giants miracle, awesome. If it doesn’t, so be it.
Let’s Go Mets (again, for my 34th season).
Worst Team Money Can Buy Part Deax?
This offense sure seemed to be clicking on all cylinders when Church was in the 2 spot…maybe its just me.
Lets rush up Fernando Martinez to play right and try Church at first!!!