|
The Mets (14–11) defeated the Pirates (10–16) by the score of 5 to 4 in 11 innings tonight.
For a recap and boxscore, go to SNY.
…well, that may have been the most anti-climatic walk off hit i have ever witnessed…either way David Wright drove in the winning run with a deep fly ball to right in the bottom of the 11th…
…frankly, the Mets shouldn’t haven’t been in that position, but just as the Mets were on the verge of winning in the ninth another error in a big spot by Jose Reyes allowed Billy Wagner to blow his first save opportunity of the season…
…the Mets missed a big inning opportunity in the bottom of fifth inning…reyes broke a 2-2 tie with a triple to deep right-center field and later scored on a botched inning-ending tailor-made double play off the bat of wright…however, the Mets again were unable to bust the game open with two runs inning and the bases loaded and one out…Ryan Church struck out on a 3-2 pitch, which SNY’s overhead camera clearly showed was 6-8 inches off the plate…church had every right to argue that one…come on, blue…the inning eventually concluded with a strikeout from Carlos Delgado…
…the offense not being able to make their opponents pay for mistakes in the field has been the achilles heal of this team…the just haven’t had the ability to step on the other team’s throat when the opportunity presents itself…
…speaking of the fifth, did Willie Randolph really put the squeeze play on…even though it was a failed attempt, i love the call…i honestly can’t remember the last time willie called for a squeeze…frankly, i think willie has made a mistake in the past not using the squeeze, especially with as many triples as reyes accumulates…
…i don’t know where the Mets would be this season without Ryan Church…give the guy a game ball for tying up the game in the fourth with two-run big fly to right…
…Johan Santana managed his way through 5.2 IP tonight…even though he only gave up two hits – both homeruns – the pirates made santana work though each inning, fouling off pitches and working the count…santana just didn’t seem comfortable tonight, be it the weather or still getting used to the shea mound…willie attempted to allow santana get through the sixth, but santana just ran out of gas, loading the bases on two walks and hitting a batter…
…willie did the right thing letting santana try and work himself out of the inning, but once he hit Xavier Nady, it was clear santana was done for the night…
…Pedro Feliciano saved the inning with an inning-ending infield pop fly…
…oh, Aaron Heilman, what are we going to do with you…i doubt we see him in a in big spot any time soon…perhaps we’ll see him get the ole Jorge Julio treatment…heilman was saved by a terrific play by Raul Casanova to recover a Scott Schoenewies wild pitch an throw the runner out home, who didn’t seem to tag the plate on a head first slide..
…Duaner Sanchez struggled for the first time this season, allowing a one run on two hit and two walks in the eighth…i’m not too overly concerned by this as sanchez is still working his way back and few struggles here and their are to be expected….
…it wasn’t pretty, but a win is a win…keep taking care of business and go out and complete the sweep tomorrow afternoon…
The Mets finish off their abbreviated two-games series against the Pirates at home tomorrow at 1:10 pm.
 |
 |
 |
RSS 2.0 Both comments and pings are currently closed.
I’m glad they won. The game shouldn’t have gone that long and by the lack of celebrating at the end of the game I think the players realized it as well.
I think they are trying to show that it’s about buisness right now. Wright was supposed to get a man home with 1 out and a man on 3rd. We were supposed to win and we did.
Same thing with Delgado the other night. This is our rival and it’s the 7th inning. I am just trying to do my job.
Hopefully that attitude will force a few more winning streaks this year.
great point .. not a big reason to celebrate there, when you should have had more runs, and almost blew the game in the 9th. They were re-securing a win that should already have been theirs. Celebrate when you do something great or noteworthy, not for doing your job.
Reyes’ error was infuriating. He had a stupid grin on his face while he made a careless throw. If he could ever grow up he might be something.
Mets deserved to lose this one.
I can’t tell, is this a Braves fan or a Phillies fan? Imagine any of us on here saying that one day Reyes might be something. LOL!!!
Meaning he’s a nice player limited by his immaturity.
But no, you’re right, he’s totally reached his potential, and I’m a Phillies AND a Braves fan.
I just don’t get after a walk off win how you can come on and blast Reyes for some look that he had after a play. He got on base 6 times tonight and you want him to be somebody? He plays baseball for a living and makes millions of dollars doing it and he’s still not 25.
He got on base 6 times tonight and you want him to be somebody?
And that came reeaaal close to meaning squat because he totally – TOTALLY – hot dogged a throw in the ninth inning.
But apparently wanting Reyes to grow up and become the player he can be makes me a Braves/Phillies fan. Got it.
It came real close to meaning squat because he had an error? So I guess the fact that he came right back out and got on base showed no maturity at all. Or the fact that he came up and got right back on base again, showed he was still sulking over an error. Be happy we won largely BECAUSE of Reyes and not in spite of him.
You can look back, I am as critical of Reyes as anyone on here but to bash him tonight after what he did the rest of the night other than that one play is ridiculous.
Perfection is the enemy of the good. Reyes had a terrific game and people will kill him for an error. It’s a team game. Delgado could have short hopped it or Wagner could have not given up that hit, or Casanova could have blocked the ball in the dirt. All these events conspired to give the Pirates a run. AND the entire team only scored 4 runs off the friggin Pirates to that point. Blame the team, not just one guy.
But if Reyes was more mature he would have been somebody by now. Thus the Mets would have deserved to win.
Some of these guys just can’t be happy.
You abuse Reyes but fat Howard cant even bend over for a ground ball.
But if Howard was more mature he would go on a diet and pretty soon he would be somebody and the Phillies would deserve to win.
The real, I think haplo is trying to say is that Reyes takes a lot of things for granted. Thats where a guy like Moises comes in and sits down with Reyes and just explains to him that you cannot take anything for granted.
Now I think at 24 Reyes is still immature but with time he will realize all this and hopefully we won’t see him lobbing a ball to first base or to any base.
Haplo if I misinterpretated what you are trying to say I apologize.
It came real close to meaning squat because he had an error?
Uh, it was an error that pretty much directly turned into the tying run. A little bit of a breeze behind the LaRoche double in the 10th and this is a loss, and it doesn’t matter how many times Reyes got on base. It’s really not a difficult concept.
Reyes got lucky tonight. The Mets got lucky. They might not be so lucky next time Reyes does something foolish to undercut whatever good he does.
Look, he took too much time on the play getting his feet set on a ball deep in the pocket. He will 9/10 times make that play. However, to say that Reyes needs to mature more to be somebody is just plain stupid. Especially after a guy gets on base 6 times. Reyes is still young and learning the game but to say that he had a funny look on his face and that because of him we should have lost the game. NO WAY.
The real, I think haplo is trying to say is that Reyes takes a lot of things for granted.
Yup, pretty much. He hot dogged it in the ninth, and it came very, very close to erasing his getting on base six times.
To say that the kid is sacrosanct just because he got on base six times – nevermind the totally preventable unforced error, borne of immaturity, that almost undid all of it – is tantamount to enabling that immaturity.
However, to say that Reyes needs to mature more to be somebody is just plain stupid.
Awesome argument, on so many levels.
Or the fact that a guy who had been struggling, swinging at too many 1st pitches and not working the count gets a night of 3-3 with 3 walks.
Or coming down hard on a kid who misplayed a ball in the field after he busted his ass all night on every other play.
Phils have 22 errors which is towards the bottom of the majors. Mets have 13. Utley bad D didnt help u guys against the cubs. Before u start pointing out bad D and laziness look in your own backyard.
Explain how Reyes who gets paid millions of dollars at age 24 to play baseball and who is one of the most exciting players in the game is not someone already? If you want to say he could be even better, so be it. But to say that his imaturity is costing him a chance at being somebody? again is just plain stupid.
17, you might as well give up because the best thing is I actually think this guy thinks he is a Mets fan.
On balance, I think any team would take an immature guy that gets on base 6 out of 6 times. Evidence is all around Major League Rosters.
I am not even doubting the fact that Reyes can be imature but to base that on a goofy look on a bad play and say that he isn’t already somebody????
Or coming down hard on a kid who misplayed a ball in the field after he busted his ass all night on every other play.
There’s an unspoken message here – that he didn’t bust his ass on this play. You danced around it in your previous post – you said he took too much time getting to his feet.
Why couldn’t he bust his ass on this play? He knew he had a molasses slow runner and he relaxed. It’s my entire point in a singular moment – the one moment he took the game for granted very easily could have cost the Mets the game and rendered null his amazing night at the plate.
If you’re satisfied with what the kid did tonight because the team won, that’s your choice. His talent outweighed his immaturity solely because the Mets won. Personally, I’d rather see him bust his ass on every play. And like I said – if it happens again in the future, the Mets might not be so lucky.
So Haplo what do we do with Reyes? How would u “fix” Jose?
I am not even doubting the fact that Reyes can be imature but to base that on a goofy look on a bad play and say that he isn’t already somebody???
Whatever you like – he’s “somebody,” if you must harp on this point. My overall point is that he could and should be somebody much more than he is.
So Haplo what do we do with Reyes? How would u “fix” Jose?
Personally I think Rick Down had much more of a positive influence on Reyes than most of us realize.
But in the end, Jose has to do it himself. He can have mentors to guide him, but nobody can be “fixed” to become mature.
You danced around it in your previous post – you said he took too much time getting to his feet.
Bleh, you said setting his feet. Point still stands, but apologies nonetheless.
We all should be somebody more than we are. None of us was fully mature at 24 years old. Why would you expect Reyes to be that way?
Mets won. Who cares what you think. Let’s enjoy another game tomorrow.
and that maturity will come……
with jose it’s 2 steps forward and 1 step back and 2 steps forward again
We all should be somebody more than we are. None of us was fully mature at 24 years old. Why would you expect Reyes to be that way?
Because it’s his job.
Who cares what you think.
Well, you’ve replied to me twice already. Just sayin’.
I am a huge Mets fan but in 25 Reyes has 5 errors already and a couple of them was like the 1 he displayed tonight. (Reyes had 12 in 160 games last year)
I just think that Alou as a 42 year old and of course a veteran has to take Reyes aside and just talk to him about not taking things for granted. I know you are going to bring up about getting on base 6 times but last week in Chicago, Reyes had an error that led to runs and we blamed it on Heilman and I just felt like that was unfair to Aaron.
But real you are right he was 1 of the reasons why the Mets won tonight.
25 games*. Probably should proofread before posting.
it was a lazy play, plain and simple and he heard it from some of us behind the dugout on the way in after the inning. physical errors are fine, the guy is ridiculously gifted but a mental error in the 9th can’t happen. love jose’s passion and glad fun jose is back but he’s gotta to make that play. that said, it didn’t cost us a game, he hopefully learned a lesson so it wont happen again and he didn’t sulk. let’s get another win tomorrow
Hap, I don’t know if Rick really had that much of an influence on Reyes. I think it has more to do with his dances and him just having fun. If Reyes gets on a hot streak you see him smiling and goofing around in the dugout but if he’s struggling he is going to press and put more pressure on himself.
But like what most people are saying that pressure that he puts on himself will go down as he gets older.
it was a lazy play, plain and simple and he heard it from some of us behind the dugout on the way in after the inning. physical errors are fine, the guy is ridiculously gifted but a mental error in the 9th can’t happen.
What are you, a PHILLIES FAN????? (j/k).
he hopefully learned a lesson so it wont happen again and he didn’t sulk. let’s get another win tomorrow
Agreed on all points.
I love how every error is a lackadaisical play. It was a physical error. It happens.
If you expect perfection, baseball is really the wrong sport for you.
Hap, I don’t know if Rick really had that much of an influence on Reyes.
Everyone makes a big deal out of what Rickey Henderson taught, but by many accounts Rick Down worked with Reyes on a much more daily basis. It may just be coincidence that Reyes’ 2007 season went down the tubes after Down was gone, but I suspect that his influence was indeed missed.
I love how every error is a lackadaisical play.
I love your strawman. Nowhere have I even implied that.
I hope you place the same level of expectations on yourself that you do on the Mets.
I hope you place the same level of expectations on yourself that you do on the Mets.
You talk as if playing hard and staying focused are completely unreasonable expectations. Sad.
What’s sad is you criticizing a physical error and thinking you are so smart about baseball.
What’s sad is you criticizing a physical error and thinking you are so smart about baseball.
Ah yes, the other part of the strawman. Awesome.
Physical errors I can tolerate. And if you think that was a physical error, then I wouldn’t go around talking about other people’s baseball smarts if I were you.
Did the throw beat the runner smart guy?
Haplo you are a moron. Reyes didn’t “HOTDOG” anything, he hadda make a long throw and he missed it. It sucked, it led to playing a few more innings then they had to and almost a loss, but SH*T happens. Baseball players make bad throws, they also drop balls and strike out. Everytime they do that doesnt mean their hotdogging.
Did the throw beat the runner smart guy?
Did it matter? It was a **** throw, and it happened because Reyes made a lazy play.
He knew he had a slow runner. He relaxed. He lost focus. This was not a “**** happens” error. This error occurred because Reyes didn’t respect the game, and it cost him. That is anything but a physical error.
Haplo you are a moron.
Cool, I love you too. Such respect and civility on Metsblog.
Haha. You’re ridiculous. He doesn’t respect the game. What a load of bull.
He knew he had time because it was a slow runner, so he took the time to set for a throw. He just threw it low.
You know, kind of understandable for a long throw from the hole in shortstop.
Stop, you’re making a fool of yourself.
The error sucked but this was a classic Reyes game where he was all over the bases and not even in the game without him.
Plus, if you noticed, it wasnt the easiest throw to make from in the hole.
Haha. You’re ridiculous. He doesn’t respect the game. What a load of bull.
On that play? He did not. He took it for granted. But yes, not respecting the game – what an unfair accusation to make about the guy who sulked for three months because he got benched for jogging down to first.
He knew he had time because it was a slow runner, so he took the time to set for a throw. He just threw it low.
You know, kind of understandable for a long throw from the hole in shortstop.
Do you honestly think it was his best physical effort? Come on. He got lazy.
Stop, you’re making a fool of yourself.
Whatever you say.
You are going to see what you what you want to see, man. I think you make a bad psychologist, though.
I apologize for the name-calling.
Man, people make mistakes. Even professionals do. It’s called being human. People lose focus. That’s human too. Sometimes they make physical mistakes. Sometimes they make mental mistakes as well. Let’s move on.
You are going to see what you what you want to see, man.
Could I not say the same about your argument?
I apologize for the name-calling.
Accepted, and I apologize for any snark sent your way as well.
Yea Reyes is just a Hot Dog. He was being lazy going 3 for 3 with 3 BBs and a stolen base. Oh but wait I guess those singles could have doubles and that triple prob could have been a round tripper.
And who gets caught stealing anyway….WHAT LAZINESS!!!
Ohh but Reyes is going to be lazy in a game which he just worked his butt off in and the Mets probably wouldnt even of been in position to win if not for him.
Hap, agree to disagree.
Man, people make mistakes. Even professionals do. It’s called being human. People lose focus. That’s human too. Sometimes they make physical mistakes. Sometimes they make mental mistakes as well. Let’s move on.
No doubt. It’s just that there are mental errors, and then there are mental errors that serve to illustrate fundamental doubts about a player (particularly if those doubts involve consistent effort and making mental errors).
Ohh but Reyes is going to be lazy in a game which he just worked his butt off in and the Mets probably wouldnt even of been in position to win if not for him.
Again, all it takes is one play to erase lots of others. Mets were lucky that wasn’t the case tonight.
Hap, agree to disagree.
About Down? Sure, it’s really just speculation. I suspect he helped Reyes a lot on a day-to-day basis, but I was not in the clubhouse so I could not say for sure.
Wow, that was an entertaining thread!
Seriously.
Frankly, i think both Haplo and thereal make good points. The kid had a nice game at the plate and let’s hope it is the start of something good (though some clutch hitting behind him would also help!)….but I do agree with haplo that the error was, at the very least, a lack of focus due to a slow runner.
I’m not sure it should be called a mental error, because he knew the speed of the runner and knew he had time, so throwing the ball away is not a mental error. Lack of focus on the throw, yes and no. If you’ve thrown a baseball regularly, you get to the point where you can do it without even thinking and every once in a while you do exactly what he did. Drop the elbow and short-arm the ball. All infielders have done it multiple times. Thats why most firstbasemen become adept at scooping the ball. Pitchers do it, catchers do it trying to throw basestealers out, bouncing throws to second. Lack of focus? If focus is the total concentration of every movement in a throw then they’re all guilty of a lack of it. As I said before, after throwing over and over again, it gets to the point where you dont think about it, you just do it. How about a bout of over-confidence? That I can buy.
I’ll buy that.
that was excruciating, but I can’t resist 2 cents..
A little bit of a breeze behind the LaRoche double in the 10th and this is a loss, and it doesn’t matter how many times Reyes got on base. It’s really not a difficult concept.
this “not difficult” concept I have a problem with, because you can’t separate that moment from the rest of the events. I could just as easily argue that if the umpire gets that 3-2 call against Church right, we have another run there, only one out, and who knows how many more runs, rendering all lackadaisical play following completely moot. Other balls in the game, given an inch or a foot this way or that change the game entirely.
Wow lol too bad i was asleep for this one.
If you want to call reyes out on that play…then you should equally call out delgado as well. If we had a good defensive 1st baseman he would have scooped that ball and the runners out. Reyes was deeep in the hole and had to throw across the diamond in the 9th after being on base i dont even remember how many times before then. Just like sanchez did when he booted the dp that could have ended snells evening, reyes made up for that error on the basepaths by getting on..not once but TWICE after that error happened. As far as maturity goes noone can expect a 24 year old to be mature and to spend the majority of the begining of this thread on a look reyes had on his face is stupid. How many times howard misses a ball at first and he has a look on his face too, or how about wright when he makes an error…you are going to call him immature right….All i know is yes it took alot longer than it had to to win this game but we won it. Reyes was on base the majority of the game which is definatly a plus no matter how you cut it. Lets just enjoy it and get them tonite.
this “not difficult” concept I have a problem with, because you can’t separate that moment from the rest of the events. I could just as easily argue that if the umpire gets that 3-2 call against Church right, we have another run there, only one out, and who knows how many more runs
What happened happened. Reyes’ “overconfidence,” “lack of focus,” “hot dogging,” whatever you want to call it, led directly to a brand new ballgame. Which they eventually won, yes.
The point is, the Mets might not be so lucky next time. And there will indeed be a next time if Reyes doesn’t learn from what happened.
rendering all lackadaisical play following completely moot.
There should be no lackadaisical play from this team, period. Not after last year, and not if there is a continual gnashing of teeth from this team about how unfairly it gets treated by the fans. There’s something disturbing about saying “well, if only such and such had happened to so and so and the Mets were winning by more, it would have been OK that Reyes was lackadaisical in the ninth.” It’s never OK, especially not now.
then you should equally call out delgado as well. If we had a good defensive 1st baseman he would have scooped that ball and the runners out.
The difference is this – we know Delgado isn’t a great defensive first baseman. We saw his limitations during that play. I can deal, because we don’t expect him to be better. I have no reason to think he didn’t give his best.
We expect Reyes to be better. He doesn’t have to make the play, because as many people have said, **** happens. But he has to give his best, and he didn’t.
Listen, the history of baseball is filled to the brim with people who succeeded on talent alone but never quite lived up to their massive potential. If Reyes wants to be one of the great ones rather than somebody who had a nice career that could/should have been special, he can’t not give his best.
Wow, I should have stayed up for this.
One question that I am guessing I will have to ask this guy when he comes back.
If Omar Vizquel makes an error on a play in which he had a slow runner and took a little extra time to set up the throw and made a bad throw, does that make him immature?
I think I have seen what happen to Reyes happen countless times. They guy takes a little more time to be sure of the throw and screws it up. If he had came with his normal motion without thinking about it, it would have most likely been an out.
Seriously, do you think he said “Hmm, slow runner up I can just be lazy and toss it from deep in the hole to 1st base.” Or do you think it’s more likely that he said “Hmm, slow runner up I am deep in the hole if I set my feet and make a strong throw I can still get this guy.” Fact is if the throw from deep in the hole was not low then it would have been an out. Not to mention that the ball should have been caught.
If Omar Vizquel makes an error on a play in which he had a slow runner and took a little extra time to set up the throw and made a bad throw, does that make him immature?
Did Vizquel sulk for three months last year because he got benched for not running to first? Did he turn “to dance or not to dance” into a daily drama this season?
If it weren’t part of a pattern with Jose, I’d be more inclined to let it slide. As it is, it seems pretty clear to me what happened last night. If you want to chalk it up to “bad throw,” “it happens,” feel free.
So know you have the ability to know that Reyes was sulking for 3 months when he got benched. Did he say that? Did Willie say that?
Again, what do you think he was thinking? I don’t have to try to get this guy from deep in the hole. I can be lazy on this play?
So know you have the ability to know that Reyes was sulking for 3 months when he got benched. Did he say that? Did Willie say that?
Come on now. It’s really no secret.
Again, what do you think he was thinking? I don’t have to try to get this guy from deep in the hole. I can be lazy on this play?
I don’t think he was thinking at all. But you’re right – I’m not in his head. All I know is what I saw and what Jose’s done over the past year.
Here’s a question for you – if you’re so confident that this isn’t the case, why do you continue to argue?
“Did Vizquel sulk for three months last year because he got benched for not running to first?”
Its 2008 get with the program also reyes played almost every game last year. Cut the guy a break.
“We expect Reyes to be better. He doesn’t have to make the play”
Then why call him immature for not making the play.
“But he has to give his best, and he didn’t”
He was throwing very deep for SS i bet half the SS in the majors would not make that even close. He miscalculated and the throw was a bit short.
Its 2008 get with the program also reyes played almost every game last year. Cut the guy a break.
Really, it’s 2007 part II until this team proves otherwise.
Then why call him immature for not making the play.
Way to selectively quote.
He was throwing very deep for SS i bet half the SS in the majors would not make that even close. He miscalculated and the throw was a bit short.
He didn’t give himself a chance. That’s the point.
“Really, it’s 2007 part II until this team proves otherwise.”
No REALLY we are in 2008. To U its 2007 part II.
No REALLY we are in 2008. To U its 2007 part II.
Good luck with that.
“He didn’t give himself a chance. That’s the point.”
So you would have rathered he charged the ball and make a rushed throw to first to get the hot footed doumit?
I would rather he’d have thrown it than fling it.
you sure are tenacious. I wasn’t saying the play was lackadaisical or it wasn’t. I was just saying it’s ridiculous to say “if this or this happened, that play would have lost us the game” .. I stand by that.
It is what it is, it wasn’t a terrible throw, and Delgado almost picked it. Throws like that get made all the time, usually they’re picked and you don’t think twice. Fact is, Jose had a great game last night, and it seems silly to nitpick that moment based on a look you perceived on his face.
And yes, for many of us, it is in fact 2008, and there are no perceivable scars from 2007. 29 baseball teams every year lose in a heartbreaking fashion, at some point in the year. The precipitous manner in which it happened to the Mets last year made it more shocking, and perhaps more appalling, but it is a new year, please get over it, as many of us have.
Fact is, Jose had a great game last night, and it seems silly to nitpick that moment based on a look you perceived on his face.
But it isn’t a great game if they don’t win the game, and Reyes taking one play for granted put that outcome in serious jeopardy. Heck, half of the people arguing from your position have conceded that at the very least he was “overconfident.”
The point is that that’s a concern going foward if Reyes doesn’t learn from it.
but it is a new year, please get over it, as many of us have.
You call me tenacious; I just find it interesting that people seem very insistent on how I should feel or what kind of fan I should be. I’ve had all sorts of invective hurled my way for simply (and civilly) defending a pretty reasonable viewpoint. People have even jumped on the simple statement that the Mets should play hard all the time; I guess because my implication is that they don’t. Which is fine, I can handle name-calling. I just wonder if the level of offense people are taking is due to the fact that deep down they think I could be right.
Why is there always this one pessimistic individual who takes as negative approach to everything as he possibly can. haplo, what the hell are you talking about? Everyone had trouble gripping the ball yesterday, Santana even said it in the post game. Don’t you think that it’s possible that Reyes could not get a good grip on the ball, double clutched, and simply threw too low? Are you kidding me? Were you on the field that you saw him slack off on the play? Come on!!! Reyes always has this “grin” when he makes errors or a bad play. It’s his way of dealing with the embarrassment of f**king up. You bashing him here after he busts out with a great offensive game is ridiculous. Yes, his error nearly cost us the game, but it’s an error, it happens. It doesn’t mean that he has no respect for the game or that he doesn’t hustle or that he’s not concentrating enough. Jimmy Rollins made an error last year at the Shea home opener – do you remember that? I do – I was there. Did it mean anything? Sure, the Phils lost that day, but JRoll won an MVP and played hard. Point is, errors happen, even to the best of us. Just because he bounced the throw doesn’t mean that he’s sulking or its 2007 all over again. You need to move on and start looking at things from a more optimistic side.
You need to move on and start looking at things from a more optimistic side.
Thank you for illustrating my point.
don’t get over it, be pessimistic & nitpicking if you want, enjoy 2007 part II .. it won’t affect my enjoyment of the games at all. The constant complaining (not from you, but a constant) that comes to this blog will unfortunately affect my enjoyment of the comments section .. whatever though, I’ll just read them less. Be whatever kind of fan you want for what I care.
last word.
last word.
last word.
;)
don’t get over it, be pessimistic & nitpicking if you want, enjoy 2007 part II
I honestly don’t think I’m too pessimistic; I think the Mets have done fine for not really getting in any kind of groove… I just won’t ignore the elephant in the room, and all reminders thereof.
last word.
last word.
last word.
Haha, fair enough. :)
So is getting distracted by a bumblebee (or whatever he was doing) during a rundown play another physical error?
I concur w/ your feelings. I was screaming at my television as well…. my wife couldn’t understand why I’d scream at her ‘boy’, but this kid is infuriating me these days.
Enough w/ the jose jose chants, Reyes’ head has gotten big enough already. Can it be these guys are just not hungry anymore? I hope i’m talking out my arse.
It’s nice to pull this game out but man, when are they gonna start getting some clutch hits with runners in scoring position and tack on runs?
Well they did get the big one with runners in scoring position. However, I do agree there was no good reason for Reyes and Castillo to both get on with no outs and no runs score.
yea definatly a wasted opportunity. Its rare that it happens, we should have not let that go to waste
Everyone is on Reyes. Yes he had a error. But he also had a great night at the dish. No one is talking about our former set up man who came in the game SUCKED again!!!!
therealsince86, I agree with you. The lack of celebrating appeared to be very business like. I hope that is the case.
Can’t think of whatelse it could be. They sure celebrated last year when they won a game in the 9th.
I was at the game, and for being an 11th inning win, the mood wasn’t very exciting nor did I even feel the need to go nuts. I just felt happy and went home. Maybe it was because we blew it in the 8th and 9th, or confidence in Wright being up with runners on, but the general feeling around the stadium was casual.
Welcome to Shea these days…
This team needs to turn it up quite a few notches when they’re playing at home.
It’s been the feel in Flushing since June of 2007.
Boring, for the most part. And no one enjoys a day or night at Shea more than I do….it’s just been the case on many an occasion where the team can’t rise to the level of passion displayed by the fans.
P.S. — On Reyes….”Reyes kicked himself for flinging the ball instead of firing it. “I should have used my arm there,” he said. ”
So, it was a bit physical, a bit mental. Bottom line: we shouldn’t have struggled as much against the Pirates.
But that’s baseball…..and just be happy with the win. Agreed, though 100% — pbelli.
“santana just didn’t seem comfortable tonight, be it the weather or still getting used to the shea mound”
Still getting used to the mound? Come on, the guy has been a pitcher his entire life, if the mound at shea is whats causing him to only get through 5.2 innings, then that was an extremely bad contract he just signed.
I think looking back on his previous years, the only problem is the month of April.
he let up ONLY two hits…unfortunately both happened to be homeruns…but he left the game with the lead…he was very productive for an “off night”….i know this isn’t worth the money we spent for him…but so far he only has had one outing where he deserved the loss against the brewers…he should be 5 and 1 right now if A) the mets were able to score more than one run for him against the braves and B) reyes doesn’t bounce the ball in the dirt…or casanova doesn’t bobble the ball taking away the double play opportunity
The mets are 14-11, not 13-11
I don’t think Santana was all that bad. Let’s face it he throws strikes and he will give up the long ball. I think fans are expecting perfection or close to it. The Pirates fouled a lot of pitches off and weren’t exactly getting healthy swings, but the pitch ciount rose. The ump had a small strike zone too. Santana will get on a roll and have several strong dominat starts in a row soon. Look at that I can write something positive.
i agree. This guy is worth every dollar they invested in him. The purpose of a starter is to keep his team in the game for as long as he can and thats what santana does. Not to mention the way he swings the bat we almost got an AL lineup lol j/k
Kudos to Santana during the postgame interview.
He showed his appreciation for the fans but said the team needs them (us) in order to have a good season. I like the acknowledgment from Santana.
what’s the Jorge Julio treatment? Are we going to trade Heilman for El Duque now?
Sounds funny, but we may do exactly that, if Duque ever pitches again
and people still f**** booing and its getting so damn annoying, if you look at santana’s post game interview he calls out the fans saying that you need to support your team no matter what – if i go to a game and some one boo’s a mets player i am going to punch them in the face….
Amen, brother.
yea….brass knucks in the grill!!!
Lets booo the booers!!! Oh wait… that won’t work…
One thing I noticed was that the crowd seemed uh, impotent, in terms of getting up and getting loud for whoever was on the mound for the mets with 2 strikes and 2 outs. I feel like if a crowd is really into it, and in a positive way, they’ll be loud then. Maybe I just have Fenway envy.
“if i go to a game and some one boo’s a mets player i am going to punch them in the face”
No you’re not. Why even say something like that?
can i still bring the brass knucks?
Well, he scared me into NOT booing. I think his diabolical plan is working.
I was pretty disgusted when I heard boos in the 7th after Church took a pitcher’s pitch for a strike to get to a full count.
Yeah, f***ing great, boo the biggest positive on this team this season for taking a pitch he was supposed to take. It was not an inch higher than the knees and right on the outside corner. And it didn’t end his at-bat, and it was a big chance for the team to blow the game open (sadly blue’s terrible call the next pitch let the Bucs off the hook).
Clueless idiots.
There was a great shot of johan and pedro feliciano talking after the inning that pedro bailed him out of. It was pretty clear they were discussing how Johan had some issues gripping the ball. Alot of the pitchers were blowing in their hands alot, and I think johan underdressed for the night. I’m not in New York but it looked pretty chilly, and a little sweat on the fingers goes along way for grip.
I didn’t turn the game on until the 7th inning, didn’t realize that both runs given up by Santana were homers. That really is his achilles heal, isn’t it? Without doing any deep digging, I’d guess that about 75% of the runs he’s given up this year have been on the longball.
That said, his career #’s in April are 12-9, 4.04 ERA, and in May he’s 11-9, 4.05 and then from June on, he turns into an all-world pitcher (2.63/3.67/2.44/2.75 are his June/July/August/September ERAs). So far he’s actually pitching better than his career average in April, and if he gets better throughout the summer, he’s gonna be nearly unhittable in the dog days.
just looked it up, 9 of the 14 earned runs Santana has given up this year have been on homers.
What record would you be satisfied with 40 games into the season? They are now 14-11 after 25 games. I’d be satisfied with a 23-17 record.
I’m going to go ahead and one up you. 24-16. .600 is decently comfy.
25-15 is on par for 101 win season. Might be tough to get since Arizona dn LA are next on the schedule, tho
Hold on a sec… I thought Wally was asking what the Mets have to do for us be satisfied (ie not unhappy) with their performance. How did that become: “what are we dreaming about in our most optimistic fantasies?”
Sure, 100 wins or a .600 record would be nice. It also hasn’t happened in Major League Baseball since 2005.
It seems to me that’s the main reason there’s so much unrest this year: the expectations are out of control.
Pedro’s thrown three innings… our most reliable relief pitcher just had the worst month of his career, leaving the 8th inning in the hands of a guy coming off an 18 month absence who can barely throw 90 now…. Nelson Figueroa is our 5th starter (and doing damn well, but still…) and PELF is our #4… Delgado looks like he’s hit the wall and Beltran, hitting in front of him, and without Alou to protect him, is batting .218.
All of this, and we’re half a game out of first, trailing a team that can’t possibly keep up the pace.
And Willie, who I’ve never hesitated to criticize, has finally acted decisively… verbally supporting Heilman but taking him out of harm’s way at the same time… defining bullpen roles… moving Church to the 2 hole while Castillo struggled, and then putting him in the 5 to offer some protection to the 3 & 4 guys.
Isn’t that enough for April?
23-17 would be fine for me.
I was surprised today because I really thought Delgado was going to take the curtain call after his…er…somebody help me.
Curtain calls in April show how stupid some fans can be. Save them for October, people.
Hey, we’re 14-11 without Delgado, Beltran, Reyes and Castillo getting off to stow starts. In addition, Wright has been struggling a little lately. And Heilman has been horrible. I know not everyone will be hitting on all cylinders at the same time all year long, but I think it is worth noting. It’s a long season and we’ll need help form unexpected sources . . . as any team that goes deep into the playoffs must get.
Geez … I meant WITH (i.e. “even though”} “Delgado, Beltran, Reyes and Castillo getting off to stow starts” Ahhh, you know what I meant. (I wish we had an edit button for these instances.)
whos that annoying lady on sny now? her voice is making my ears bleed!
Happy we pulled out with a win…btw didn’t that last hit look like a foul??
I think it bounced in fair territory and then went foul before the camera caught up to it, but yea, when they first panned over to the ball I thought it was a foul.
If this was any team but the PIrates tonight, the result would had been a big fat L. We didn’t win this game….The Pirates lost this game.
A win is a win, and I’ll take it and smile. But this game should have at least been a 8-3 blowout with all the scoring opportunities .Way too many runners left on base, sporadic defense up the middle, and horrible clutch hitting with RISP. We are in the bottom 1/3 of MLB in runs scored and Slugging. That has got to change, and perhaps a trip to ARZ will help us put this Mets team in better perspective one way or the other.
Lets clean it up, win one convincingly on getaway day tomorrow, and go to ARZ with some momentum. Than the real test begins.
Don’t forget one of our chances for a big inning was partially stolen by a terrible call on the payoff pitch to Church.
Can someone please give Willie some Kudos… praise him for the job well done today!! I still beleive that Willie Randolph is one of the best managers in baseball and that it is the team that has to step it up since Minaya put the pieces together and willie makes the decisions.
I suggest something i know isn’t going to happen. To send heilman to AAA for 2 weeks and let him regain his confidence and call up carlos muniz in the meantime.
Lets Trade Sosa for free!!!
no one would take sosa at that price. the mets would have to add extra money to make that deal happen.
Say what you want, but Sosa got the victory tonite.
How abuot this for irony: Kudos to Willie for putting Sosa in a position to win.
Key issue raised by this game is Willie is burning out the bullpen. He could easily have double switched so Feliciano could have pitched to more than one batter, and his righty-lefty switches are like every game is the 7th game of the World Series. It’s not his fault the starters can’t get out of the 6th inning, but it is his fault that every win requires 7 pitchers. And, he is overusing Sanchez terribly. The guy was hurt for a year and a half, comes back, and he pitches him every day. Sanchez was due for a bad outing, but he had no fastball last night, and it’s probably because he has been overused. The guy who is being underused is Feliciano, who can get righties out. At this pace, it won’t take until September to burn the bullpen out like last year, it will take until June.
Random comment… but if any of you have mlb.tv, switch it to the diamondbacks game, they have their big pitching prospect, Max Scherzer, pitching out of the pen. He went 4.1 ip, no hits, 7 Ks.
He looks like kerry wood out of there pre-surgeries.
With Webb, Haren, Johnson, and now Scherzer, the Diamondbacks are going to have a SCARY rotation…
Yeah but what fun is it to not have a couple of old arthritic, injury-prone pitchers in your rotation? (Well I suppose Johnson may fit that category.)
I think Reyes and Castillo were on base a total of 9 times tonite and scored only once. C’mon Mets offense. Start stringing together some hits, and knocking guys home.
Wright and Beltran really struggled tonight. They’ll pick it up.
The Mets just need a road trip, they need to get away from Shea (can’t believe i’m saying that, but its true). Santana is so right, I mean, what good is the advantage of playing at home, when you’re getting booed every single game? For anyone saying booing doesn’t matter, listen to Santana. I mean, look at any home court advantage, its because the fans are behind the team, and provide an atmosphere where the team can play loose and play confidently. Fans seriously need to put last year behind, because in reality, it’s last year, and every year is a new year. Does last year’s world series team get special bonus this year because they won it all last year? No, they get nothing, no advantage, its a new year. SAme for a team that collapsed. Turn the page.
exactly. let’s support our team.
who isn’t likable on this team? who gets into trouble? who is a jerk? we’ve had lots of teams with guys with bad attitudes and/or behavior on and off the field from fireworks to spraying bleach to drugs and drinking heavily to practically fighting reporters. how could fans dislike the guys on this current team?
for once the team is a bunch of good guys and some of the fans are a bunch of jerks instead.
Being at the game, everytime something negative happened tonight there were boos. The only guy I think I didnt hear boos for was Wright. Its ridiculous, these guys dont deserve to be booed.
Ohmyfrickingod, enough with the whining about the booing.
How can anyone have not expected it after The Collapse? Winning will change the vibe eventually. But its gonna be a stadium filled with short tempers most of this season. Last year, the fans were in stunned silence during the downward spiral of “we’re so good we got bored” sub-.500 play, and thus never had a chance to take out their frustrations over The Collapse. Then, nobody was held accountable. NOBODY.
THAT is the thing people should be mad about – not the booers.
Really, people, it isn’t rocket science.
Ironically, I thought the crowd was fairly well behaved. An embarrassingly small crowd for a johan start, but well behaved.
Boos only for Heils after yet another bad outing.
A few boos for Delgado after his ofer….but he was cheered when introed to his first at bat after the curtain call thing was blown out of proportion by media. Loud, standing O’s during 2 strike counts cheering for Mets pitchers to strike someone out. Loud ovation for Santana (who was pretty mediocre), No real boos after the Pitt homers off of Santana. Great cheers for Dirty, despite a shaky outing in which he gave up a run and nearly gave up the lead. Loud cheers for Wags, despite the blown save as the fans smartly knew it wasn’t his fault.
all i have to say is, the level of booing going on right now is not normal, not even close. People have given references to past players/teams who were booed, and i’m sorry, what is going on right now is not that. There is booing every single game, its ridiculous. We have a winning record. Not everyone on the team is going to be great, if they were, we’d be an all-time great team, guaranteed 110 wins, but guess what, no one thought that would happen, that would be an insane expectation. Fans need to realize, that even despite last year, it’s kind of hard for a team to go out and play perfectly and have every player playing great at the same time, and to win, say 70% of your games.
i agree darkstar..
Its out of control at this point. I felt soo bad for heilman coming out of that game and the people in the front rows were booing the heck out of him. Thats no way for people to react cmon. Noone booed dirty for geting out of his shaky inning which he actually gave up a run. Granted willie left him in to fight back and he did but still, its getting out of control. To boo santana/church is crazy and its not whining about the boos its just that this is getting embarassing and its fustrating. If your going to be that way just do a favor and stay home until your over LAST YEAR..or sell your tickets on stub hub and let a fan that wants to cheer their team go and do just that.
fans had 5 months to be mad in the off-season. get over it or get some therapy.
are you this angry about the iraq war? the recession?
it’s baseball.
that’s what really gets me, why do people seemingly take this stuff so personally? It’s a baseball team, baseball. You should be able to get over in due time, losses, a collapse, whatever, its baseball.
Heilman should get booed. It is not like he has been bad for one game. He has been bad since allstar break last year. For some reason Willie feels the need to keep on putting him out there. He has proved that he can’t handel the presure for a year and a half enough is enough.
Well, just got home. A win is a win. That would have been a tough one to lose, so I’m happy. But man, these four hour games with the Nats and Bucs… Well again, take the win and move on to tomorrow for another one.
Dumbass of the Night for 4/29:
Some guy next to me booed Delgado in his first AB. His buddy told him to knock it off (his wording wasn’t as nice as mine here)
So the idiot tells his friend, “**** Delgado! After 9/11 he spit on an American Flag during a Blue Jays game!”
Where do these people come up with this stuff?
By the way, the way this season is going at Shea, I could come home every night and give out a Dumbass of the Night Award. I won’t bother everyone with that, but trust me, they’re out there in full-force.
And another thing I’m noticing this year. I’ve always seen lots of people wearing Yankee caps at Shea. It used to bug me a little, but I got over it pretty fast. But for some reason, now there seem to be hundreds and hundreds of people wearing Yankee caps, jackets, jerseys, etc. I know it’s really not my business, but if one of us went to their stadium wearing a Mets cap, we would get all kinds of abuse.
Ask those yankee fans who’s in the starting lineup?
It’s a ridiculous fashion statement…….Elitism generally.
Perhaps the booing could be re-directed at people wearing Yankee gear, either on or off the field? Just an idea.
Sure, but it gets to a point where you just want to find a section with nobody in it and watch the game. The guys in the Yankee gear don’t bug me as much as they used to, but it makes me wonder who is coming to our games. Why weren’t they watching the Yankees? They probably rarely do, and just yell 26-26-26 at people all of the time. Just seems like there’s more of it than there used to be. And I’m not seeing as many of the familiar faces I used to see.
LOL. Mets fans used to get on the Skankee fans at Shea by shouting Yankees Suck! chants at them…..until the very same people who complain on Metsblog about booing complained ad infinitum about the “Yankees Suck!” chants at Shea!!!
I moved down 6 rows behind the mets dugout in the 8th inning from outer field box and when delgado grounded out to the rights side in the bottom of the 10th and was on his way back to the dugout, some clown in front of me starts yelling “delgado you suck.” Delgado looked up twice at him and gave him one of the nastier stare downs I’ve ever seen and yelled an expletive as he went down the steps into the dugout. the kid had to be about 22 years old and him and his buddies were scared to death by the delgado stare-down. they weren’t bragging about it they sat down immediately. high comedy. but clearly its getting to delgado which is not a good thing.
no it’s not a good thing.
karma will find that fan via a foul ball to the coconut
Yeah, that’s actually something that concerns me. It means it’s distracting him, which I was hoping it was not. I have a feeling these guys will go on this road trip and pick up some big wins. Probably play in front of some better Mets fans too :(
I was in the uppers all night, but I moved around. It’s pretty bad up there now too. Too much cursing, throwing things, people spitting and nearly getting into fights. I’m no prude, and I’ve always defended peoples’ rights to boo whomever they want even if I disagree, but it does go too far when people can’t keep their hands or bodily fluids to themselves.
plus it was too cold to be taking your hands out of your pockets anyway (except to clap with two strikes). even on the walk off hit people were too cold to celebrate and went directly for the exit. but even in extra innings security had to escort someone out behind homeplate and a bunch of people got kicked out down the 3rd base line. i don’t get it.
Cripes what is going on with the (some of the) Mets fan this year? It’s like the animals have been un-leashed at Shea. And the more attention it (the booing, etc.), I fear it’s going to bring out even more of this type of person to the stadium..
People must feel their lives are sorely lacking to have to take out their frustrations and stupidity in this way on players who as humans sometimes struggle to perform well at the very difficult sport of baseball.
it really seems like we have anti-band wagon fans. the mets collapsed last year, so a bunch of people got together to act indignant at shea all year. it’s embarassing.
such a terrible way for us to close out Shea too. Even in the worst Mets seasons, Shea was a fun place to be, now it really just isn’t.
I would guess that Delgado might sit tomorrow. They can call it a day game after a night game, but the reality is if he’s barking back at these people then he should just sit for this one game and then get back in the lineup on the road trip. Everyone can use a change of scenery right now.
In libel law, truth is an absolute defense. Thus, in the case of this loudmouth fan vs. Delgado….I rule for the loudmouth fan.
then go to a libel law blog for chrissakes. this is about baseball and the behavior of (supposed) fans not supporting their team.
Chill man….just trying to add some levity.
Besides, he does suck.
i think if the media (in this case metsblog) is gonna take the time to recap the game and pick apart performances… it’s an absolute oversight that Reyes’ 6 for 6 (3 BBs and 3 hits) isn’t mentioned. sure he made a big error in the 9th, but give the guy credit for his offensive night in the same breath. he’s been struggling, and he put together a damn good night at the plate (one that i think all Mets fans are happy to see).
isn’t it a bit like booing (which this site has clearly demonized) to recap all the negatives without giving light to the positives.
Eh, I think Mike was just reflecting what most of us saw tonight – a win, but an ugly win that should never have taken that long/
i’m just saying that part of what we saw was Reyes getting on base all 6 times he was up (which is something that if he continues to do, will benefit the whole team). i’m not asking Mike to not mention the negative stuff too, I’m just sayin’ paint the whole picture if you’re gonna paint the picture – that’s all.
I understand your point, and it is a valid one.
Personally, I look at the Metsblog recaps less as journalistic exercises (we all know where to find recaps that would list the who, what, when, where type stuff) and instead I see these posts as broad strokes from a fan’s perspective. But, no doubt that a journalistic recap would have to include Jose’s very good night at the dish.
and i see your point as well… even from a fans perspective though – if anyone was unhappy with the way Jose has been hitting (the second half of last year and so far this year) than they owe it to him to recognize when he does what the team needs (3 BBs in addition to his 3 hits). coming away from this game his offensive stat line stands out to me and i feel it should be recognized.
just food for thought. not trying to bash the work here at metsblog (i check this site as often (or more often) than any other baseball related site).
I think we all have sore fingers from hitting refresh on Metsblog.
I believe Mike did mention Jose’s triple….but you make a fair overall point.
Too often, both as NYers and as Mets fans, we all have a tendency to harp on the negative to the exclusion of the positive. Last year and the hangover from The Collapse only exacerbated that tendency.
Let’s hope this was the start of something good for Jose.
i agree with you whole-heartedly. that’s exactly my point.
and yes, my refresh button is now broken due to excessive clicking.
The Mets are 9-4 at home this year and the fans are still booing every mistake and hissing every swing and miss.
Laughable.
agreed. embarrassing. NOT how i became a mets fan those many years ago.
i think we mets fan need to RELAX a little. this is what the yankees talk about. when u win a lot, u expect to win and it stops being fun for a fan. we fell in love with the 06 team because of their heart…can we please get behind the 08 mets team and stop boooooooooooooooing. are epextations are high, and we should…but LETS GO METS!
I’m sure some of it are bandwagoners who first caught mets fever in 2006…but I;d hazard a guess the boos and impatience/frustration on the part of longtime fans has far more to do with the 2007 Mets than the 2006 Mets.
The Mets should start making people take a quiz when they get to their seats.
One question:
Who do the retired numbers belong to on that wall over there?
If they can’t get it right, they can stay, but they have to be quiet! :)
Just kidding of course, but it does seem like a lot (not all) of the fans making Shea kind of a negative experience right now are the younger and most likely newer fans.
I guess it’s true, when you grew up a Mets fan you learned to live with a little disappointment. Sometimes a lot more than a little.
LOL. That would be a frightening quiz, especially since the Mets have reired so few numbers!
Agreed re: the long suffering fans. Still, I empathize with those longtime Mets fans – the people who suffered so long with the Mets and did so very gamely with optimistic attitudes about “we’ll get em next season!” even after horrid seasons with bad teams…. yet now, after last year, are the very same fans having a hard time keeping their good natured attitude after The Collapse. They may even boo once or twice. I am one of them.
PS: Stengel, Hodges, Seaver.
In game drama aside, you have to win games against bottom-dwellers. Simple. Whether in nine or extras.
Separates winners from losers.
so delgado sucked and choked again. that’s great. i guess people were right when they claimed nick johnson was worse. or they were wrong.
Delgado did hit two balls pretty hard last night.
One took a good play by the Bucs’ man of the moment, Nate McLouth, who had a great night all round last night.
The other would’ve been a hit to any field where the shortstop plays on the conventional side of second base.
Plus he did pretty well to keep Reyes’ throw in front of him in the 9th and give Wagner a better chance of escaping the inning.
The umpire had me fumming after that call to Church yesterday! That ball was so far off the plate that even I was cursing my head off!