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In the Daily News, Adam Rubin wonders if, should the Mets decide to fire some one, could Rick Peterson be the first to go.
According to Rubin, “There was high-level disenchantment with Peterson at the end of 2007, enough so that his job status was briefly murkier than Randolph’s.”
…well, what goes up, must go down…
…by the way, High-Level Disenchantment may be my favorite of the Smashing Pumpkins albums…
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I’m in favor of Peterson still. I think he does good work. As inconsistent as Ollie has been, I give Peterson a lot of credit for turning him back into even occasionally dominant Ollie. Maine was a failure in the Orioles’ system and has had a lot of success with the Mets as well. That’s not Minaya’s doing; it’s Peterson’s. He resurrected the careers of Roberto Hernandez and Darren Oliver, adjusted Joe Smith’s arm angle… you can’t say anything bad about Peterson. Yeah, he didn’t fix Victor Zambrano in 10 minutes. Get over it.
This team’s problem is not that they can’t pitch; it’s that they can’t hit and they look unmotivated out there.
No, I think the approach of the pitching staff as a whole has gotten more cautious, and that’s not good. Our starters have gotten into a bad habit of struggling through the fifth or sixth inning, something that’s even reached over to Santana. I also think Willie leans a little too much on the Jacket for his bullpen usage, which has resulted in a more stressed pen, and an expectation among the starting staff that they’re not ever going for a CG. We need a more aggressive approach, and I don’t think Rick’s fostering that anymore.
that’s baseball in general.
At the end of the day those decisions should be up to the manager. If Willie’s leaning on Peterson to much, then that’s Willie’s fault not Peterson’s. There’s no reason Peterson should be fired because Willie can’t make the decision by himself.
How is struggling in the 5th and 6th a “habit?” The real problem is that Willie yanks guys too soon.
I’d rather leave the starters out there, who are generally good, rather than bring in Sosa. At the very least it should be tried for a few games.
sosa just needs to go, period. There have got to be better /unemployed middle relievers littered all over triple a or elsewhere.
Willie does yank too quickly. He never lets a guy work out of his own mess after the 5th inning, breeding a lot of weakness in the starters. But Peterson has to be held to the fire, too. He’s the pitching bench coach for Willie. He’s the one advising Willie on how the arms are feeling, what they’re capable of achieving and he had and has the big say in helping Willie set his “set in stone” pattern of bringing in the same relievers every game. Willie’s not the pitching guru on this team. He relies on Peterson, and has always relied on Peterson. That’s Peterson’s job performance out there when you see the pitcher’s fail and flail and have no clue how to fix their problems.
modern sports docs agree that most pitchers lose a lot of effectiveness after 100-110 pitches, and that they’re more susceptible to injury. Also, it’s cold. The reason our pitchers can’t go long is ineffeciency, plain and simple. Too many balls, too many walks, too many pitches to get through each inning. I know it’s a give and take, to some extent…someone’s gotta throw the ball…but if we’re overtaxing anyone right now, I’d rather it be a (relatively easy-to-replace) middle reliever or two than one of the starters.
Yeah, but other teams have to pitch in the same weather, and their pitchers don’t seem to have nearly the same trouble that the Mets have been having. And the inefficiency more the “habit” I was talking about.
I posted something longer, but cyberspace ate it. the gist:
I don’t think it’s a mangement issue, I think it’s a permormance issue independant of orginizational philosophy. Just my opinion, time to drink, good weekend, LGM
I’m not for firing anyone, but I do think people have put Peterson on a pedestal a little too much.
He had some success with OP, but his ‘turn around’ could also be attributed to Perez being Perez - who had two good years before Peterson was his pitching coach.
Maine has done well, but how much of it is Peterson vs. Maine just growing up?
Who else can we really attribute Peterson as the reason they were successful (while with the Mets)? Nelson Figgy is too early to tell. Sosa’s success disappeared last year.
Leo Mazzone is out there. Hmmmm. . . . .
But like I said I’m not for firing anyone. Anything that is wrong with the Mets is the players fault. But just wanted to note Peterson’s success might not warrant him being impervious to being fired.
I think Peterson’s success is really overshadowed when you look at a guy like Duncan in St. Louis who has consistnetly built a strong staff around turds like Weaver, Looper, Suppan and now Loshe. I also feel like Peterson has a way too cookie-cutter approach towards preparation of pitchers towards hitters — way too much emphasis on the “180 zone” rather than approaching hitters more individually. Not saying he should be the first to go, but I think the idea that Peterson is an above and beyond guru has lost its luster.
I agree. He’s done a solid job for the post part, but I don’t think he is irreplaceable.
Part of his ‘allure’ is based on his Oakland days and now coaching in NY’s media market.
Duncan is a great example.
I don’t think that it was Peterson’s fault that Mota sucked and was used constantly (the same can be said about Sosa). Wagner was hurt, and the starters hit a wall. I think some of that blame has to go to Omar Minaya and the players, not Willie, not Rick. Rick’s done a very good job with our ptchers.
Whoever in the met world think peterson should be fired is retarded and should be fired.
Peterson is one of if not the best pitching coach in the bigs.
this thought is absurd,
It kills me that someone with this grammar and spelling even thinks about calling someone else “retarded”. Really classy.
I never pick on grammar, but I like how the last sentence ends with a comma (,).
Spelling words wrong didn’t stop certain people from becoming President.
Therefore, it won’t stop me from posting my comments.
You stay classy San Diego!
god bless america!
There was a fire yesterday in the George W. Bush library. Firefighters were unable to save the books. The real tragedy is that one of the two of them hadn’t been colored in yet.
That is his reputation. . . . Is it true though? What about Bryan Price? Dave Righetti? Bob Apodaca? John Farrell? Mike Maddux?
All very good coaches who have had success and failures. Just like Peterson.
I’m no Peterson fan, but the first guy to go HAS to be Willie. This team has been dead since early last season. I don’t put that on Peterson.
Peterson is certainly in jeapardy - as he should be based on results.
Having nothing to do with that however, I cannot tell you how much I would pay for some video tapes of any conversations that occured last season between Peterson and Rickey Henderson.
Can you even imagine what such a conversation sounded like, and the worst part is that it was all wasted as neither of them was likely to have been listening to the other…
Peterson’s job is in jeopardy…..but only because the new coach after Willie deserves every right to pick his own coaching staff. He better not get fired before Willie, that would be a huge mistake.
If the Mets have any inclination to fire Willie, please fire him now. I don’t want to wait too deep into the season where too much damage might have been done. This guy is not an NL manager, please Omar, do the right thing and get rid of this guy.
As for who replaces him, I’m all for going outside the organization. I want someone who has had no part in the malaise that has taken over this team. Also, PLEASE Omar pick someone with NL roots. So what if Randolph was the disciple of Torre? Torre is no genius by any stretch of the imagination.
which only supports the idea that people place too much importance on the role of managers
Is this an argument for keeping Randolph? If the manager’s effect is small, so is the risk that the next guy will make things worse.
Let’s wait for Schneider to get back into the starting lineup before we jump to conclusions… He has impressed me beyond expectations behind the plate thus far (and in the batters’ box as well). His aggressive calling could make all the difference.
Well if that is the case, then doesn’t that hurt Peterson even more? At least in terms of his true value to a team?
Absolutely not.
Yep, defintiely wait for Schneider to come back on a full time basis.
And No, pitching better because you have a good defensive catcher, does not, in ANY way, negatively affect the pitching coach.
Not sure if anyone mentioned it above, but Peterson has to be blamed for the Starting pitchers only getting past the 6th inning only 6 or 7 times in 26 games (not sure exactly if that is right. I know its close). Santana has been most of those too. Everyone has been so quick to point the finger at Willie and his overuse of the bullpen, but the SP’s inability to go deep into games is the real reason. Peterson’s job is to keep these guys focused during the game and he’s not getting it done…
I don’t think its their ability so much as the philosophy. Why is 100 pitches so magical? 15-18 pitches is typically a good inning. If you take 100 and divide it by 18, you get ~ 5 and 2/3, which is exactly what the SP has been giving us. Why not bump it up to 125 pitches, which is ~ 7. Or here is a concept…how about you forget the stupid pitch count and ask the guy how he is feeling. There’s an old-school concept.
old school doesn’t mean better. This has been said time and again, but pitchers - particularly young pitchers - are never gonna say they’re gassed and want to sit down. Part of the responsibility of the manager is to keep these guys from hurting themselves.
The starters aren’t going deep because they’re not throwing strikes. I said this abouve: too many balls, too many walks. I’d bet large amounts of money that Peterson’s philosophy doesn’t include “walk lots of guys”.
So be it. Clean house.