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Billy Wagner, speaking about Oliver Perez, while talking with Michael Kay, during his weekly interview on ESPN 1050:
“It’s not a question of effort, it’s a question of focus. You have to focus, and know that, yeah, I don’t have my best stuff today, but some how you’ve got to compete…Oliver Perez is an unbelievable athlete and an unbelievable talent…but, it’s a situation where, I know you’re playing the Pirates, but it’s a situation at this point in the year where that you wanna be going on the road with something positive. If you lose to them 5–3 or 8–4, yes, a loss is a loss, but it’s how you’re losing the game, ‘So I had a bad game, so be it.’ Well, you can’t look at it that way. You’ve got to be able to look at yourself and say, ‘Is that the best I could do.’”
Wagner, on whether the team is playing sloppy:
“I can never question how our team goes down and competes. We compete. Every guy that comes in there is about winning. That’s our whole goal. It’s not about being an individual…It’s about winning. The errors and stuff like that, that’s gonna happen. But, as a pitcher, you want to be able to pick those guys up. You’ve got to find a way to pick those guys up. A pitcher prides himself on going out there, a guy makes that error, and the pitcher picks him up and we’re able to go back out there and win. I can tell you right now, there’s many of times I go out there and pitched and they make the greatest plays ever yet every one comes up to me telling me how great I am. I know I’m not that good. If these guys behind me aren’t playing and making plays for me we’re not gonna win and I’m not gonna look good.”
Asked why he went through the media to address this situation, and not directly to Perez and his teammates, Wagner said:
“Well, we have. There are a lot of us who have gone to Oliver and said, ‘Hey, we need you to pick it up, we really need you to come out here and have a strong showing, we just used seven guys in our bullpen and we need you right here, we can’t really afford a two-inning stint here.’…Look, I love the kid. I think the kid is fantastic. But, he’s got to understand, I’m not saying Billy Wagner is any better than any one else, because I definitely don’t think that. But, I also believe that when we show up to the ball park we have got to put a better effort coming out there. I know he wants to win, no doubt about that, but we have to figure out how we’re gonna stay focused. If he gets mad at Billy Wagner for saying this, but he goes out there and wins ball games, great. I’m all for it…We’re not sitting here going, ‘I don’’t like Oliver Perez.’ That’s what a lot of people want to sit there and stir the pot at. Look, we care for this guy, and we can’t go nowhere, we’re not going to the playoffs, we can’t be a dominating team if we do not have an Oliver Perez who can come out there and find ways to win. You know what, if he goes out there and he battles and he’s coming up short, we’re not gonna have a problem with that. But, you’ve got to battle. You’ve got to go out and find a way…I want to win and I know everyone in that clubhouse wants to win, but sometimes you’ve got to say something. You might have to stir the pot.”
…wagner is using oliver as a scapegoat for a much larger idea here, which is Team Unity, Picking Each Other Up and Fight, three things this team had in 2006, but lost last summer and has never really gotten back…this is clearly wagner trying to shake the team’s cage…i hope it works…
To listen to Wagner’s entire interview, go to ESPN 1050.
It’s good on Wagner and he’s on the money but it is sad that the team’s de facto captain isn’t the vocal leading the clubhouse…
Or the manager for that matter…
Here’s my take on this: I think Wagner is totally bush league for throwing his teammate under the bus like this. Yes, all he says may be true, but a REAL leader would have taken Ollie to the side and given him this talk, not ‘hate on him to the press like this. What kind of respect will Ollie have for this guy going foward? None.
But did he have to say “I have alpacas that pitch more consistently”? I thought that was a low blow…
lol, Mr. Gee!
Can anyone really argue with Wagner on this? It’s about time someone on this dull team finally spoke out.
This is the best quote I’ve read so far.
Wags, the closer on the new York Mets, is saying what us the fans are thinking.
This team needs more fire, motivation.
Hopefully that Pirate blowout will serve as a positive, in that it was a slap in the face.
These Mets need a good hard slap in the face. We all worship this team, buy tickets and merchandise.
We’re the happiest people in the world when they win and were devastated when they lose.
These guys are millionaires living a dream all of us could only dream of.
I know I speak for all of us in that the fire I would feel playing for this team, wearing the orange and blue, would be limitless.
LETS GET DIRTY, no more cookie cutter BS. Lets show a little personality, pick an identity and run with it.
We all know the 86 champs were overflowing with personalities and they succeeded.
Whether you had issues with a guy on your team or not when it came to game time, it was pride and humility that drove them. (Read “The Bad Guys Won” by Jeff Pearlman, a great for any age, especially for a kid who was born in 80)
Bravo Billy, it needed to be said!
fans have said our bullpen suck… well how can you pitch well if you being use everyday? someone has to call out the starting pitchers. because it’s only May, you can’t keep going to the pen when it’s only the 4th/5th inning. imagine how bad it’s going to be in August/September?
I like wahat Wagner is doing. Someone needs to get this team going by calling everyone out, and trying to make everyone take responsibility for their performance.
BTW, why does the media always assume that if someone says something in the papers about another player or their team in general that they didn’t address it internally first?
Because the media is so full of themselves, they can’t believe that someone would say anything, anywhere, behind any closed door, without them knowing about it.
So how much of Randolph’s salary should be given to Wagner, considering he’s doing the manager’s job for him (like LoDuca did for the past 2 seasons)?
Man, no wonder Loduca was fired last year. He stunk.
Seriously.
“Waiting to lose” was not a smart thing to be discussing with the press.
I love that he referred to himself as Billy Wagner a few times. Very Bo Jacksonesque.
Someone has to, now that Rickey’s gone.
gbaked approves of billy’s usage of 1st person.
I said this earlier in the week, and I’ll say it again now.
The most important dugout incident that of this 2008 Mets ballclub was not Delgado’s ignored curtain call and whether or not David Wright told him not to do it. That is paparrazzi BS and doesn’t matter. The biggest incident was in WASH last week. Mets are getting killed in the 9th, and on the steps of the dugout cheering on his team was Billy Wagner.
He was the only one. Standing by himself. No one was within 10 feet of him. Not the higher paid veterans. Not the ‘energetic’ youngsters. And certainly not the manager.
That’s a cheap shot at Willie. Say what you want about him, but he’s always on the top step of the dugout with his arms crossed. He doesn’t seem to do much else, but he’s always standing there.
All I’m saying is that I didn’t see Willie. But you said it best with:
“He doesn’t seem to do much else…”
It seems as though some of our fans appreciate him and some don’t.
For those of you that don’t. Doomsday scenario number 1. Billy Wagner gets hurt. Now what?
The guy has been a solid closer for us. He has blown up in a few big spots, but is he not better than 80% of the garbage closers out there? I am not only happy we still have him here, but I think he should be extended after next….pending no loss in velocity.
try 95%. The list of closers I’d rather have than Wagner right now are Papelbon and Nathan and that’s it. Even Rivera isn’t better than Wags right now, and Mo is the only active pitcher who’s blown a Game 7 of a World Series…
This team is like a Pepsi Max commercial….. where the entire team is yawning and half asleep, while Wagner is the only drinkine the Pepsi………… WAKE UP PEOPLE!!!!!!
Kudos to Wagner for saying what he said, but as others here have noted, it would mean a lot more to hear this kind of fire and attitutde coming from some new sources - the Carlos’, Wright, and Willie.
Wagner can say the team comes out to compete every day all he wants but I think if you read between the lines - you get the point. All too often, a player or two on this team takes a mental health day, and all it takes is one to get the dominoes to fall.
I have no problem with what Wagner said, and neither should Perez. All professional athletes have pride. Perez should use that criticism to push himself to get better; if it doesn’t, he’s not capable of getting any better.
I wish Willie use the same tactic that Wagner uses to push the rest of the players or the team as a whole. I’m tired of him showing unwavering confidence in players that just simply need to be called out because of poor performance. Not saying he needs to bash his players in the media, but a little embarassment is the only way you can discipline these well compensated players.
I don’t know, I don’t agree that they’re not fighting.
He says, “I can never question how our team goes down and competes. We compete. Every guy that comes in there is about winning. That’s our whole goal. ” I think that’s true. During the Chicago series the announcer said, wow, this atmosphere is intense, it’s like a play-off game. In April. I think they are playing balls-out. Sometimes you do more stupid things an ineffective things when you’re trying hard than when you’re not — possibly more often. (And of course, the stupid booing would exacerbate this.)
I think they’re definitely suffering a hang-over from the collapse, but it’s clear to me that they are not out there not caring.
Perez is his own special case, of course.
Is this Tina, as in TinaTheMetsGirl?
Nope, I’m just Tina.
I disagree. I think they don’t have a lot of fire, and some of the players don’t really care much, win or lose. And I think it is that reason that the fans get so frustrated because they see the same attitude from the middle of last year and it is continuing. You would think that they would have come out fighting with fire in their eyes after the collapse, and it didn’t happen.
That’s why it burns my a** when people in the media say “the fans aren’t over last year.” There’s nothing to “get over.” The fans are pissed that the same lax attitude from last year is continuing.
I just don’t agree, the players would much rather win than to listen to all of this garbage.
The idea that joe-on-his-couch cares more about how the team does than the players — for whom it’s their whole freaking identity — I just find idiotic and nonsensical.
Life is not an exact equation: effort = result. Sure, effort is absolutely crucial, but there are a myriad of other factors in play. If you really believe things are that simple, you should be a self-help writer. And you’d be about as useful.
So they weren’t “bored”? All those quotes by the players themselves last season about they took things for granted and took on the personality fo the manager, etc were all lies, damn lies?!?
Please.
If you cannot see the malaise that has surrounded this team for a year now, you aren’t paying attention.
Please, yourself. I wasn’t talking about last year. I do think they were coasting last year. And the result was somewhat traumatizing, for us all, and they’re still impacted by the trauma, and possibly overreaching, not relaxed, their tenseness and lack of confidence affecting their performance, whatever it is. I don’t know this for a fact, but I think it’s at least as plausible as the idea that nobody on this team gives a shi*t.
Maybe this teams needs a bench clearing brawl, Sosa or Heilman should throw behind a batter or two. Get a fight going, get angry, get passionate about winning.
I completely agree……. nothing builds unity, and “team identity” like showing each other that you’re willing to fight (literally) for them.
Can’t wait for Sunday. Santana vs Haren
I see no problem with what Wagner said. It had to be said. I am sick of Oliver Perez being brilliant for innings at a time, then beating himself. If you look at his losses, most of them are when he beats himself (not like David Cone).
His walks and hit batsmen absolutely crush him. Teams rarely hit him hard, except for last year when he gave up a first inning home run in basically every game he pitched for 2 months.
Ollie needed a wakeup call and hopefully he got it.
So, this is what our closer says. Meanwhile, our manager says stuff like “the chanpagne will taste that much sweeter.”
Hmmmmm.
Awfully early for Willie to be saying that THIS SEASON isn’t it?
By his logic, wouldn’t it be even sweeter?
Wow, I used logic in reference to Willie. That’s a laugh.
I appreciate Wagner’s leadership and his insight. Glad to see someone is telling it how it is. He’s the leader.
Ever since reading this, I’ve been trying to come up with a Championship-caliber ball club that has ever had it’s reliever as the voice and leader of the clubhouse. What great reliever throughout history was the leader of his respective club?
Bruce Sutter…nope. Cards had Keith, Hendrick, and Ozzie.
Trevor Hoffman…..please.
Goose Gossage. nope. Yanks had Thurman Munson. Pads had Garvey, Nettles, and Templeton.
Rollie Fingers…ok. maybe. But the A’s had a whole cast of characters under a good manager, and the Brewers had Simmons, Cooper, Molitor, and Yount. He was a factor, but not THE voice.
Hell, even Mariano Rivera had Jeter, Posada , Bernie, and O’Neil sharing leadership duties.
I honestly can’t find one. Wagner is far and away the leader of this team. And I question if Wagner, considering his role on the field, is enough. A leader needs to be on the field most of the time. Or even in the dugout…for that matter. Wags pitches 1 inning every 18 and hangs in the bullpen most fo the game.
We need at least 1 more BIlly Wagner.
any reason you are comparing the mets to “Championship-caliber ball club(s)”?
Billy Wagner talks to the press.
If you equate that with leadership, you know nothing about leadership.
People who talk to the press are not necessarily leaders, and leaders don’t necessarily talk to the press.
The reason closers aren’t typically leaders of their teams is pretty simple. They’re not in the dugout.
The guy who’s recently been showing the most in-game leadership is Carlos Delgado.
So who is the leader of this team?
Other Matt,
“The guy who’s recently been showing the most in-game leadership is Carlos Delgado.”
How’s that been working out?
Interesting point. I’d definitely add Smoltz when he was the closer on the Braves.
I think this is what the team needs. It needed to be said, and I really believe it can wake the team up. I hope they take notice and listen to Billy. If the team goes on a roll for the rest of the season, this could become a major turning point.
You know, good for Billy Wagner. The nuts on WFAN want to portray Wagner as a goober that pops off all the time. Well, the fact is, Wagner speaks the truth and he may be the only one to show some guts. This team is infuriating. I’ll get flamed for this, but the Latin/Hispanic players go off in a corner and largely avoid the media or just give simple, cliche’d soundbites. It’s left to guys like Wagner and Wright to field all the questions from the media that is justifiably perplexed by the play of this team. And the questions are often about the on-field production (or lack thereof) of those very same players that don’t regularly talk to the media.
Wagner is being a stand-up guy and telling it like it is. A lot of guys on this team need to step up their production. Wagner isn’t a backstabber — he’s trying to promote the team concept. Hell, if he wanted to be really blunt, he could just say, “Talk to those guys over there — THEY are the ones that aren’t getting it done. I’m tired of making excuses for them.”
It’s patently unfair that a couple of the guys on the team have to be the spokesman for a whole bunch of other players that aren’t getting the job done and won’t take charge and lead. The Mets desperately need one of the Latin/Hispanic contingent to take lead and call some guys out. Right now, the whole lot group is getting a free pass.
That would have to be Pedro.
Maybe, but I sort of doubt it.
You know, the guy is a nut, but I wonder if the Mets could use a guy like Ozzie Guillen to manage this team. Someone who isn’t afraid to speak up and someone that can talk to the Latin/Hispanic players in their own language and challenge them — not put up with the bulls&%t that’s going on over the past year.
What about Rudy from Texas?
EXACTLY!!! I don’t know if Guillen is good long term, but for 2-3 years, he would be perfect.
We need a manager with leadership skills, no matter the race/ethnicity.
I had forgetten about him. He seems to be well-respected in the game. I think the Rangers locked him up, but I’m skeptical enough to believe that Omar never really tried hard to bring him in. Money should never be an object between Texas and New York. Give me a break.
Texas may have locked him up but I am sure he would jump at the chance to be manager. I am calling it now that if we don’t make the playoffs he will be our new manager next season.
The fact that it’s nearly a year we’ve been talking about how a 150+ million-dollar baseball team doesn’t seem to give a crap about winning speaks volumes about the manager. Facts are facts whether you like Willie or not.
Does it speak volumes about Joe Torre and Joe Giardi?
Its not about winning. It’s about leading a team. Girardi is stuck with a marginal pitching staff. But he sure did manage the heck out of a young and talented Marlins team. And he had the cajones to tell the owner to bud out and shut up. I doubt he’d do the same to Hank…
But the point is Willie has not been able to harness the talent of this club since June 07. How long can wee let that go?
Not much longer but payroll has nothing to do with it. Fact is the Mets maybe 2nd or 3rd in payroll but the Yankee’s could fit about 5 of the bottom teams in the gap between 1st and 2nd. Yet Joe and Joe get a pass?
And for that matter why is a team with a 200+ million dollar team stuck without a pitching staff?
You’re correct it’s not about payroll. It’s about getting a team to reach their potential. Willie has not done that since 2006.
Thereal,
You are right - Skank fans should be very pi$$ed off about their franchise. Many are, from what I can tell. that said, they have 26 championships to soothe their wounds and didn’t have, oh, let’s see….the biggest Collapse in the history of the game last season with nobody held accounntable.
Pray tell, what the heck does Skankee underperformance have to do with how Mets fans should feel about our own stumbling franchise?
The Yankees haven’t missed the playoffs since 1993. That’s a LOT different than the Mets. Even in “down years” the Yankees still win 90+ games. Torre did just fine, it’s the unreasonable expectation that they have to make the World Series every year that made him look bad.
Why does this have to come from the closer? Where is the manager after a 13-1 loss? Oh that’s right…its early…its just a little bump in the road…its only one game. Way to hold people accountable…way to have higher expectations from your players. Maybe we need to blame the top…Omar didn’t hold Willie accountable for the Collapse, so why expect Willie to hold his players accountable for anything either…
Hey, the fans are still coming to the park, the team is still respectable, why do anything different. We increased ticket prices 20%, still play like a middle-of-the-pack team, and our fans still come. Who cares about the boos or anything…we’ll make the playoffs because the division is pathetic…heck we are still in first place. We can tell the fans that first place is something to be proud of. We can explain to them that its because of injuries or we’ll blame them for booing and not having a good homefield advantage
….its just so sickening to waste this much talent with Willie at the helm.
I missed it, what were Willie’s actually quotes about the loss?
That’s his comment for every April loss.
Come on be serious. I guess I will have to go back and find it for my self.
“we’ll get them next time guys”
I didn’t hear them either — nor did I want to. They are never insightful or, quite frankly, particularly honest. But you can almost bet on the fact that they probably included some variation on the crock of s*&t line that we’ve been getting all along about, “this team hasn’t found it’s rhythym yet.” What the hell is that? Since when did teams have a “rhythym?” They are NOT competing on Dancing With The Stars or American Idol. They are NOT synchronized swimmers. They’re freakin’ baseball players. What does rhythym have to do with anybody in baseball except MAYBE the pitcher?
Vent all the spleen you want. I am beginning to wonder just how talented we actually are. This may be one of the big issues that’s being exaggerated about our ‘08 Mets.
Still, teams don’t need to be chock-a-block w/ all-stars to be champions.
All I’m arguing is that you or anyone should be careful with this “talent” notion.
Gotta love wagner for being wagner
The guy has always been one to speak his mind to the media(i heard that was one of the reasons the phillies got rid of him) but this guy hits it 100%. I dont think anyone expected OP to be dominant after extra innings game but at least keep your team in the mix. Granted we did not muster much offense but i believe the defense affects the offense, especially with this club. When this team is down 7 runs before the 3rd inning i find it as a big challenge to come back from(unless your the tigers who got a crazy lineup). This team was beat before it could find a rythem(2hits, 1run). I wonder what was the teams reaction to this and i guess we will find out in AZ. I respect Wags opinion and it needed to be said, i just hope people take it serious coming from our closer who we see very little of. Sort of like a kicker in football calling his team out on something. I think like someone said earlier that we need a position player to step up and take this leadership but someone the team can relate to. Unfortunatly we dont have that kind of personality here and thats why this team looks sooo dead out there. We can only hope for the best.
Tell me, was it taken seriously when we had Tug?
Closer is G-D important role on a BB team, don’t you agree?
I would argue the place kicker and the closer are very similar roles–very important pieces.
they are but to inspire people who play every day. Just like a kicker the closer has spot starts when he is needed. Yes they are important but to fire up people that play every day…I just hope they take it seriously. Im speaking from the pov of inspiring the team to play better ball.
You’re more right than you realize. Both are important, both are noticed more when they fail than when they succeed, and both are somewhat distanced from the rest of the team.
The closer sits in the bullpen all game. He has no in-game influence over the rest of the team.
The Phillies didn’t get rid of him. He was FA. The mets offered him 4 years.
yea your right. I probably should have said did not want to bring him back.
Could you imagine Pinella after a 13-1 loss? Total Eruption!
Wags is the man!
Please, God, we’ve got to show some fire in AZ and LA; if we lose, so be it, but I don’t want to see another blowout or more anemic BB.
Caring is one thing, putting your guts into every play another.
LGM!
I am guessing that Lou has errupted many many many times over his career over those kinda losses then. It happens to every team. It is a cause for concern but it does happen.
wags going after the low-hanging fruit
Zen remaining unperturbed by the fact that this team is one big bushel-full of nothing but low hanging fruit.
I think willie’s approach to the teams production is the thinking…the team is not going to collapse in april nor loose the division in april(.5 game out of first). The fans expected a hot start right out of the gate because of the collapse when in reality this is a new year. The question here being and of course this would be extremely difficult to answer considering i want to believe all people here are met fans and suffered through the collapse is…If there was no collapse last year, would we be soo hard pressed about the issues that we blog about daily(booing,mediocre play,errors..etc)? What do you guys think?
Nope. This is a non-issue if we make the playoffs last year (probably even if we lost in the first round). I’ve never been a Willie fan, and I don’t think he has ever gotten the most out of his team, but thats irrelevant…
The problem here is that up until the last day, the fans lived and died with this team. We tried desperately to believe. Many of us have unused tickets to playoff games we never got to attend. Some of us even went ahead and bought tickets to a play-in game in Philadelphia that we never got to see. In 1/3 of an inning, it was all stripped from us. We were shocked. We were devastated. And that bitterness, that anger…that is what we are all venting this year. This team had a chance to erase all of that with a hot start. Something to make us believe that this year was different…but instead, every game, they do their best to remind us of September. So, we get to experience this pain all-over again, only for 20% more money.
Yup.
do you really think a hot start would change anything?
The second this team falters for any period of time i believe they are going to be seen as “playing like they did in september”. The fact is ALOT of fans are still on the collapse and are looking for quick success to justify their belief in this team. The fact is this is baseball, this is a new year. It is WAY to early to determine if this team has changed and learned from the collapse last year. As i posted earlier the team is not going to collapse in april and they are not out of the division either. Yes there have been some inconsistant play and a lack of confidance but frankly every team has their ups and downs during 162 games. Some teams people wrote off last year(rookies, yankees, philli) all made it to the playoffs. As we all know sometimes its the hotter team that wins it all down the stretch and we are no where near the end of it. This is a new year and we have to get over last year in order to judge if this team has improved because ANY failure this team makes will be OVER magnified and linked to the results from the collapse. And that may not be the case.
I am not expecting a hot start as much as I’d like to see a team that plays like it gives a crap about winning.
Good for Wagner. Here’s hoping that others follow his lead and try to get things fired up. Willie’s approach won’t work for this team. Yes, we’re in first and over .500 but we are smart enough to know that it is a long season and the team will not go all the way if they are allowed to be complacent. Things need to be shaken up before they are allowed to get used to losing more games than they are winning. I am all for firing Willie but short of that, the veterans need to become more vocal, especially Wright.
People, before 2005 our organization was a losing team. Yes the team has spent of boatload of money on talent but Willie has brought a winning attitude to the team. And while he has to shoulder some of the blame he’s not solely responsible and has done a very good job, considering the circumstances, as a manager. Probably the best manager we’ve had after Davey Johnson, argueably Bobby V.
Nothing he says isn’t true…