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The Mets (16–13) defeated the D’Backs (20–10) the score of 5 to 2 in Arizona today, taking two of three in the series.
For a recap and boxscore, go to SNY.
…you know, it was nice to finally see this team flip the script and actually win one of these late-game nail-biters, as opposed to be blowing them as has been the case most of the time this season…
…that said, thank you Conor Jackson, who made a throwing error in the ninth inning, which allowed Carlos Beltran to score the go-ahead run…Marlon Anderson then stepped on to extend the lead with an RBI single…
…outstanding throw from Ryan Church, to peg Chris Burke at third base…church is just so good, on all sides of the ball…
…David Wright hit a solo home run, but could have had another earlier in the game as the ball died right at the base of the wall in dead-center…Carlos Delgado also hot a bomb that died on the wall, as well…
…again, Billy Wagner looked totally dominant and cool on the mound…he’s totally in control…
…Micah Owings had a pinch-hit single in the ninth…he’s amazing…i mean, they should just start him in the outfield every now and then, on days when he isn’t pitching…i mean, if the guy can let, let him hit…
…Johan Santana and Dan Haren put on a nice show through the first six innings…it must be weird for these American Leaguers to come to the National League and be forced to leave earlier than expected, because they get pinch hit for, which is something they never had to experience before…haren did not look happy, and even looked confused…
The Mets will face the Dodgers tomorrow in Los Angeles.
Today during the game Gary and Ron were talking about how the Haren trade worked out for both teams. I also think the trade that gave us Ryan Church and Brian Schneider is good for both teams right now. Eventually I think results will show the Mets got the better of the trade with the attitude Lastings has.
great win to build some momentum going forward. anytime you take two of three from what is widely considered the best team in the NL you have to feel good. only complaint is that we couldnt get santana the win but thats nit picking. anyway great series win, LETS GO METS!!!
Had to pass this on:
Mike Flanagan on pitching-
“You know your having a bad day when the grounds crew starts to drag the warning track.”
bid um bum . . . ch-ssshhh.
also church batting second and alou back just seems to make everyone more confident throught the lineup. wright and reyes are solid again and even delgado is coming on! hopefully willie finally gets the picture and doesnt mess with what is working. looking back now how huge of a pickup was church!!!!
not to mention schneider is managing our pitching staff like a champ, which is the whole reason we got him!
Although I had to choose to watch this game either from TBS or the Arizona Feed (Extra Innings), I still enjoyed it. Actually, I turn the sound way down in these instances and listen to Howie while watching it.
I was pleased with the way that the team has seemed to come out in the new month. I know that last night’s game wasn’t the best, but perhaps a road trip out west is just want the they needed to come together. And, finally having the full roster together I think we can see what type of team this might be. If Alou and BS had been healthy the whole first month, I think that the Mets are at least 3 games better in the standings.
That being said, it will be very interesting these next few games to see the exact impact that Schneider has had on OP and the rest of the staff. They just didn’t look the same with Oh Casanova out there.
Great series by the boys in blue and orange. Hopefully we can carry momentum into LA and slap the dodgers around.
casanova will probably be catching figgy tomorrow
I thought Perez was pitching tomorrow
perez is pitching tomorrow….
a couple of hours ago the Mets website had FIggy as the probable starter. It has since been changed to Perez.
For now I dont mind church in the 2 hole. It’s inevitable, there has got to be back to back left handed hitters such as delgado/snieder 6+7 or church/snieder 7=8. But once delgado gets his swing back, he can move into the 5 hole, alou 6th then back to back left handed hitters in church and snieder 7+8. Church has to much RBI line drive power to stay in the 2 hole. He’s probably a better all around hitter then castillo and I understand wanting him up in the order but when you think of the perfect #2 hitter and you think of castillo as a hitter…well its pretty identical. Thats my take on the full healthy batting order(yes!!!). Well I love feedback so shoot. Now…..just pedro and castro. Others may not think so but I love ambroix burgos(can’t spell). He’s got a young great arm that could use some polishing but has got expeirience closing for kansas city.
Also meant to add when burgos comes back from injury.
Most studies of lineup construction say that slugging is the most important attribute for the 2-spot in the lineup.
Since when?
Check out The Book by Tom Tango
Danny, I’ve been a coach for over 30 years, high school, D1 college. Been to coaches clinics run by college coaches and professionals, as a guest and as a speaker. Not once have I ever heard any of these top coaches and professionals ever say that slugging is the most important aspect of a 2-hole hitter, and I certainly would never say it or think it just because some stat guy comes up with some mathematics to make a statement like that true. If that were the case then a team’s cleanup hitter should be batting second, of course if you dont mind the strikeouts. The most important aspect is a contact hitter thats willing to take pitches and you wont find more than a handful of managers that will say different.
With all due respect to your obviously vast coaching experience, it’s true what you say about a #2-hitter being a contact hitter who’s also adept at moving runners over but that is “old School” thinking. Not that there’s anything wrong with Old School but what’s wrong with trying something new? especially if it seems to be working? There’s also an old saying, “if it ain’t broke,,,,,,,,,don’t try and fix it. ” Church in the 2 hole seems to be working just fine, there’s no let up for the oposing pitcher! Reyes is also seeing much better pitches to hit with Churh looming on deck. With a light hitting “punch and Judy” hitter like Castillo who hardly ever seems to hit the ball beyond the infield hitting behind Reyes the run production is no where near that of when Church bats second. (look it up). While Castillo might be able to move Reyes to second by grounding out to the right side , Church will hit the ball much harder on a line and drive Reyes home just two batters into the game. Just like “Old School” pitchers use to go 9 innings and throw a40+ innings, I think the “Old School” way of thinking with the Proto-Typical 2-hole hitter is a thing of the past. Just my opinion based on what I’ve seen so far.
I meant to typ: 140+ pitches in a game.
It’s math, man. I don’t know what else to tell you.
pgiro
I’m not denying the results of whats going on with the Mets and I wouldnt change it at all. My thing was of the most important aspect being slugging. I’m just saying no coach I’ve ever met has ever said that. Its possible that it’s a mathematical abberation. Do you know all the things mathematicians have come up with to prove things that could never happen in reality? LOL, I’m not saying slugging wouldnt help, but just dont agree its the most important. Right now the lineup is working, but as many people have said before, defending other points, its only been one month and a small sample. Church has his pluses but also has his minuses in the 2-hole. He hits for some power, will probably hit for a better average, and is lefty which would make it easier for Reyes to steal if he would let him. He also strikes out a lot, swings at the first or second pitch which doesnt allow Reyes to steal to get in scoring position for him, and doesnt really steal bases himself. Castillo has his pluses and minuses, but heck, I hate the way he swings the bat. If he actually swung the bat normal instead of slapping at it, the who should be batting second thing, wouldnt even be a question. Again I’ll say, I wouldnt change the lineup right now because it is working and balance wise its better to have Church batting second to break up all the lefties at the bottom of the lineup.
The best #2 hitter for this team is a .300 hitting Luis Castillo. We haven’t seen that Castillo so far this year.
Church has recently started taking a lot more first pitches.
The math all boils down to whether you believe one of the more controversial results of sabremetrics – those guys say the stolen base is a bad move, and you shouldn’t do it.
It’s pretty tough to work out whether that’s true because you’re gonna have to normalize for the difference between the AL (where they don’t steal much but have DHs and therefore score more runs) and the NL.
Point is, Sabremetricians in general don’t like small-ball, they like reaching base and power. Castillo in 2nd is a small-ball move predicated on the idea that Reyes is gonna be able to get on 1st, steal 2nd, and Castillo can advance him to 3rd with less than 2 out.
The math might work overall (although as I say, it’s not universally accepted), but you can’t apply statistics to a single team’s lineup.
How is Reyes more likely to score a run. That is all that matters. By hitting the ball on the ground to the right side and getting one out, or by hitting the ball in the gap.
With Church in the two spot, you have a better chance of scoring Reyes. Math has nothing to do with it, it only matters how well this team stacks up.
Plus, for all the stolen bases Castillo may allow Reyes to get he also keeps him from getting some. He fouls off a lot of balls.
If you want some math, Reyes, stolen base rate has gone down with Castillo batting second.
With Reyes at the top, the only reason you can have for putting Castillo at number two is to move Reyes over. Reyes really doesn’t need help doing that he can do it on his own. Hence, a slugger helps this team more at the two hole than Castillo does.
This offense also is better with Castillo in the 8 spot. We saw why yesterday when the Mets manufactured a run out of that spot.
Maybe his stolen base rate went down because his OBP dropped like a rock. The best chance of Reyes scoring is by getting him in scoring position which means letting him steal. Church really isn’t taking pitches when Reyes is on. The only way then Church is going to drive him in from first is by getting an extra base hit. He’ll hit between 40 to 50 doubles and maybe 25 homeruns, thing is how many of those will be with Reyes on base? But then again you can balance that out by how many extra base hits Reyes will get when only a single from Church is needed. Then again, Castillo will have a slightly better average so a single from him is just as likely to score Reyes. Listen, both ways have their merits but as I’ve said, you go with the way thats working and thats with Church second. Look when you see the so called mathematics, you end up constructing a high school lineup. Best hitter up first, your cleanup hitter second, and your speedy, high OBP hitter up 9th. Thats how I made mine up and won many a game with it so I guess I was ahead of my time. But I dont see them batting Wright leadoff, Beltran second, and Reyes 9th.
The problem is the opposing team can pitch to Castillo. He poses little threat with a man on base. The only way he moves guys over is on ground balls to the right side and bunting. His odds of getting a hit are not better than anyone else’s For that matter, Tom Glavine could have been a two hole hitter.
Church poses more problems. He has to be pitched to with Wright behind him. This will open up more crooked innings than with Castillo whose natural inclination is to simply do what it takes to move Reyes over.
Church will see more fastballs because of Reyes being on base than anything else. If Reyes isnt on base, Church wont see pitches from a righthander who’ll still try to get him to swing at his pitch since he does strike out a lot. A lefty is going to go right at him because he’s had troubles against lefties in the past and of course for your reason that Wright is behind him. As for Castillo, the lifetime BA and OBP is higher than Church’s, which means to me that he has a better chance at hitting Reyes in from second than Church over the long haul. Thing is Castillo is a number two hitter for a team that needs to hit-and-run a lot, and thats not this team, so I wouldn’t say he has to be the two hitter. But again I say, either way works but since they’re winning with Church second you dont mess with it.
castillo might be considered your “ideal two hitter” but he cant be at the top of the lineup. at this point he is an automatic out and we win every game with church in the 2 hole so why change
If it wasn’t for the future Hall of Famer Augie Ojeda, the Mets would’ve swept this series.
Oh and all the comments about the D-backs giving this game to the Mets today (via Conor Jackson’s 9th inning throwing error and Burke getting thrown out at 3rd with no outs in the 8th)… as if this wasn’t a good way for the Mets to win….
Would they have liked it better had the D-backs won the game in the same way with Feliciano almost “giving” the game to Arizona on his throwing error in the 8th?
The game was almost “given” by both teams today. The fact remains the Mets put themselves in position to win it, with Santana’s performance, Church’s throw, etc.
The key is not making mistakes and capitalizing on the other team’s mistakes. Today, the Dbacks made more mistakes and the mets did a better job of capitalizing on them. That’s all it takes to win.
“i mean, if the guy can let, let him hit…”
great quote… but seriously, it was a good win.
mark grace = moron
amen
actually Matt, apparently the Dbacks manager has thrown around the idea of using Micah as a DH in interleague games and even has thought about using him at 1st (however, thats probably a ridiculous idea considering jackson is a good up and coming hitter, and it would be put micah at too much risk for injury, considering he’s more valuable (is he though?) as a pitcher). The guy can flat out rake, its a fun story to follow.
I was thinking this over the weekend… I see Owings heading over to the AL and DH’ing between starts on the mound.
Crazy idea, Beltran in the 2 hole and Church in the 4 hole? Beltran seems to walk a lot and his natural place in the lineup is the 2 hole. It’ll never happen but some fun speculation.
not sure what you mean by “natural place in the line up is the 2hole” but interesting none the less. Even so, Beltran will finish the season with better numbers then Church in all likelihood, lets not give up on him just yet. Nice hit for Beltran though. I mean, his batting avg. is horrible and he’s taken some called 3rd strikes he probably shouldn’t have, but I still don’t see a HUGE problem with Beltran. He’ll get on fire eventually. The one thing I can take out of this slump of his, is that he’s being patient. Usually when he slumps, he’s swinging at bad pitches, pulling off every ball, that sort of thing, but lately, he’s just taking pitches, waiting for his pitch, and he’s not getting it. He needs to be more aggressive obviously, but his hits will come, i’m not too worried about him I guess.
well put btw darkstar73 anybody going to respond to my previous comment about church in the 2 hole and overall batting order?
Yeah, I will. Right now, Beltran’s OBP is what, in the .370 range? Another runner on for Alou to collect, or for Delgado to collect, as it does seem that he’s coming around. Yeah, he does sound like an ideal #2 guy . . .
I’ve said for 3 years now that Beltran is a #2 hitter with power. That’s all he is.
I meant thats where he hit before he came to NY. I forgot the numbers, but I think his best offensive numbers have come out of that spot. I think his patience will be more beneficial in the 2 hole. It allows Reyes to steal and puts people on base for our best hitters. Wright and Church. Eventually Beltran will catch fire and end up with better numbers than Church but for now I think it would help.
i realize beltran is not a guy that will hit for average and usually tops out around .270, but the guy is batting .210!! i wish i could dump a cooler of ice cold gaterade on this guys head and wake him up
delgado is doing better than beltran, yet everyone keeps ripping on delgado….. i don’t get it
i take that back, i do get it, its cuz of delgado’s season last year carrying over…. but i still don’t think he deserves it, he seems to be heating up
lets see if delg can sustain more than one week of good swings.
Delgado’s OBP is way short of Beltran’s so it’s not fair to say he’s doing better.
He is still doing way better than Ryan Howard though.
strikes out way too much
I like that a whole lot better than Castillo in the 2-hole. Castillo has become no better than an 8th place hitter. Let him get on base to “Clear” the pitcher’s spot rather than kill a rally by tapping out weakly to the pitcher. Bletran because of his ability to work out walks would actually make an “ideal” 2-hole hitter…………….with power to boot! I like it.
actually, not crazy…. i like it…. idk about church in the 4 hole, but beltran needs to be moved around to spark him….
in the beginning of 2006 i remember a lot of people were upset about lo duca batting 2nd and wanted beltran to bat there, of course that was right after his 16 homerun season, and no one expected him to go on and hit 41…..
but i tihnk that trying beltran out batting second for maybe a game wouldn’t be a bad idea, but it would be even better if delgado was in his ‘06 form and could hit 4th….. then it would be ideal, as good as church and alou are, they aren’t good enough to be the clean up hitters on this team
Beltran use to hit second and actually has very good stats hitting in the 2-hole.
Poor Santana. The guy should be 5-1 right now.
Ha – I agree, he should be 5-1 right now but our guy Johan is **anything** but poor :)
yeah, we havent played great behind johan thus far…but theres no doubt johan has talent. The guy knows how to pitch
He should be but the one thing I like about him is that he always keeps us in the game and gets out of trouble
And has anybody noticed that even though he has pitched well so far this year he hasn’t seemed to have his best stuff in any of his starts yet? Imagine what he’ll be doing once he really gets into the rhythm of this season, he’ll be absolutely murdering lineups.
yeah, except for that philly start, he hasn’t really had his “best” stuff, and that’s the amazing thing, he’s able to to “pitch” himself to 6-7 innings, only allowing 1 run, its pretty remarkable. He’s known for doing this too, having slow starts, and really rounding into form and being able to really go deep into games come mid-season. So that’s quite nice to know. Either way, Santana is a great pitcher, anyone can get through 6 with their best stuff, but with some control issues today, Johan gets through 6, one run, and is at his best when he needed to be (getting ahead 0-2 on that last hitter before getting the fly out), pretty nice guy to have on your team.
thems the breaks .. when you’re the number one, you see the other team’s number one and number two starters regularly, and the team only scores a run or two while you’re pitching. I bet he’s happy enough that the team won, and is bound to get a win here or there later in the season when he doesn’t deserve it as much.
Leave Church in the 2-hole, and don’t mess with success. Reyes looks like a different player when there is a guy behind him that pitchers actually have to be concerned about. Not a knock on Castillo – I’m sure he’ll eventually end up hitting .290-.300 with 20 SBs – but our offense is much more explosive with a Reyes/Church/Beltran/Wright/Alou/Delgado batting order.
castillo will not hitt .300. the only way he gets a hit is when one of his slappers finds a hole. when was the last time you saw this guy rip a base hit?
I know what you’re saying, but that’s been his game his entire career. I don’t know how he has managed all these years, but he has a body of work that you can’t discount after just one month. If he’s still playing like this in June, then I think it’s reasonable to begin to wonder whether the Mets have made another blunder at 2B (Carlos Baerga, Roberto Alomor, Kaz Matsui, etc.). Until then, let’s just pray that he turns things around and those ground balls start finding holes…
Agreed. The offense is just so much more menacing with Church in the two hole. All it takes is a tag team effort and the Mets are on the board. Just a single from each of them, combined with Reyes speed and Church’s ability to hit to all fields, is enough to go up a run every time. With Castillo in the 2 hole there is no immediate threat of a run scoring. The pitcher already knows its going to fall on Wright to get Reyes home. Castillo in the eight spot creates plenty more rbi opportunities for Reyes and Church as well. Not that its a big deal, but it also lets Delgado have a little dignity and at least bat in a rbi spot in the order. If he were to hit 7th after being one of the very best hitters in baseball just a short time ago, I thinks thats pretty tough to stomach and he’s showing signs of life rite now. If we’ve got to live with him, I’d rather he bat sixth and still play with pride
Agree, Agree 100!!!!!! There is just no “Let Up” for the oposing pitcher with Reyes/Church/Wright/Beltran/Delgado/Alou. That’s Six……..count them…….six quality hitters one after another that pitchers can’t pitch around of. Is it any wonder the Mets seem to always win every single ball game that Willie puts that line-up out there? Check out Reyes’ numbers with Church hitting second. It’s no fluke. He’s seeing much more fastballs and getting much better pitches to hit.
I dunno if Beltran or Delgado wualify as quality at the moment. Delgado has had two good games after an abysmal year or so and seems to be in decline. Beltran is just lost for now.
We have to leave church in the two hole. Ask yourself this, friday nights game. Do we win that without church hitting second? All three runs he drove in you could argue castillo would have never done so. When the dbacks closed the gap to 4-2, church hits a solo HR with 2 outs a couple innings later. 5-2 mets, momentum back on our side. Point being, your best hitters need to get more AB’s, and its stupid to stick church back near the bottom of the order.
Again, to me castillo’s worth in the two hole is dimished because A. Reyes is one of the best basestealers in baseball B. We don’t really do any hit and run type stuff that often anyway. Its nice that castillo can move reyes over if need be. Why however should we play for one run early in games, when we can play for the big innning with church in there at the 2.
The results speak for themselves. 7-1 with church in the 2 hole. All 8 of those games we’ve scored first. We’ve only lost 1. That is a formula for success. One that we need to keep. Like someone mentioned earlier. This lineup seems to have alot more rythm with church in the 2 hole. As for Castillo, he has great value in the 8th spot. being that pesky type hitter who plays good d in the field.
Maybe it is just me but while I enjoyed the way the Mets hung in there and won a late one, our defense does not seem to be getting better. 3 wild pitches, even though schneider could have done a better job blocking a couple of them, maybe he came back too soon. The botched pop up between Santana, Wright and Brien. Moises in left looks to be in slow motion after seeing Chavez and Pagan out there. Even Beltran got caught loafing after a single by Ojeda. Maybe I am just being picky but could there be a case of Delgado-itis going around? Wow, I am thankful that this veteran team was able to pick themselves up and win but this but it just puts more pressure on the pitchers, to throw more pitches. Lastly, but even Santana is infected with too many pitches early in the game so not even 7 innings either from the one I expected to go 7 or 8. Our bullpen needs a break or they will continue to meltdown and the end of the season there will be too many innings to make them fit and able to last thru the stretch run. Maybe it is just me but I love to see good defense and how this makes for a quicker, cleaner game and lets the pitcher know that the team on the field will sacrifice their bodies to help the team win and also get the pitcher and players back into the dugout sooner. Maybe I am too picky but our defense has to improve even if you are not hitting you can help on the field. Lastly, we need a defensive 1st base to back up Delgado in the late innings that can bend down and reach a ground ball and will field his position, not 2nd base. Whew sorry but I had to vent. Let’s Go Mets! 2 out of 3 in LA or a sweep would be great.
i didn’t read all of that, i just read until the 3 wild pitches part…. but i love when they win late in the game, because guess what other teams did that all of the time? the ‘86 team, the ‘06 team, and the first few months of the ‘07 team…..
When are Burgos and Wise coming back? And when they do come back, who are they replacing? Is there any way we can trade Sosa? I hope they don’t demote Smith…. He’s been incredible.
i dont think burgos will be replacing anybody… and i have no clue who wise would replace… hopefully schoenweiss
I seriously want Ryan Church. He’s all mine. Nobody can have him.
I was at the gym and I yelled SO loud when CJ threw the ball into center on the Delgado play.
Made me so excited today. Johan deserved that win though.
I’m excited, yet nervous about the trip to Dodgerland. And we get Brad Penny on the Wednesday day. But don’t we kind of own him?
Ok Tina, Ryan Church is all yours – except when there’s a Mets game being played.
Yeah, I know better than to distract him then. We need to win.